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Author Topic: Why didn't the Conspirators plant Eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza?  (Read 5845 times)

Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Why didn't the Conspirators plant Eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza?
« Reply #250 on: September 11, 2018, 08:26:35 AM »
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This is where the LN cohort are seen for double standard. Trying to completely discredit Arnold Rowland for some understandable minor inaccuracies and yet giving Williams, Jarman and Norman a free pass for repeated documented lies regarding the pre assassination movements of Williams. Given they were willing to lie about that it must call into question anything that they provided post-assassination.

Was it a coincidence that the three African-American men that were directly under the 6th floor SE corner all had questionable and conflicting affidavits on how BRW (who was on the 6th floor late) arrived to the 5th floor? It took until the HSCA in 1978 for BRW to finally set the record straight.

Too late.

Conveniently, no one on the fifth floor heard or saw a thing post shots despite moving (granted not immediately) to the SW corner.

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Re: Why didn't the Conspirators plant Eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza?
« Reply #250 on: September 11, 2018, 08:26:35 AM »


Online Ray Mitcham

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Re: Why didn't the Conspirators plant Eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza?
« Reply #251 on: September 11, 2018, 09:17:32 AM »
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Sure, Ray. Have it your way. There's two black women each hanging out an open window in the set above the front door.

Love the way you omitted the part about the two women being on the second floor in your original quote.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 09:26:36 AM by Ray Mitcham »

Online Colin Crow

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Re: Why didn't the Conspirators plant Eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza?
« Reply #252 on: September 11, 2018, 09:47:11 AM »
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Was it a coincidence that the three African-American men that were directly under the 6th floor SE corner all had questionable and conflicting affidavits on how BRW (who was on the 6th floor late) arrived to the 5th floor? It took until the HSCA in 1978 for BRW to finally set the record straight.

Too late.

Conveniently, no one on the fifth floor heard or saw a thing post shots despite moving (granted not immediately) to the SW corner.

The basic facts are pretty much established....the SN was occupied by Williams until about 5minutes before the shots. We do not know exactly why he left the lunch unfinished there, just that he vacated the spot around that time.

I think itís time to move to Dougherty and the elevator movements just prior to and after the shots. The common belief was that it had to be Dougherty who took the west elevator down some time after Truly and Baker took to the stairs. Maybe time to explore the evidence for that belief and what the WC did to rule out the escape of an assassin or accomplices via that route.

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Why didn't the Conspirators plant Eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza?
« Reply #253 on: September 11, 2018, 03:37:24 PM »
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Jack,

That was an official amendment made by Barbara on her own WC testimony. It had its own CE number otherwise it never would have been included in the WC volumes. It was not included in the final printed version but Mr Belin's alteration was.

It is remarkable that the very basis you have used to discredit Arnold of not telling the Agents about the African-American male due to his wife being present at all times was the very statement changed by her that included "but l did not hear everything that was said".

That's not a smoking gun statement, that's your credibility up in flames.

Take the shovel out of your hands because you have hit China.

The African-American male was BRW and the WC did not do everything in its power to dismiss him as the African-American that Arnold saw. Knowing the distance that Arnold was from the TSBD, the blue chippers took his age "estimate" as gospel truth and then proceeded to lead the FBI on a false lead knowing full well that there was an African-American male who was tall and slim on the 6th floor after  12 noon.

Were Arnold's descriptions perfect? Absolutely not.  It didn't mean he didn't see an unarmed African-American male.

If one was going to be sceptical and suspicious about Arnold's testimony it would have been on seeing the armed white male in the first place. That's where a fabricator would embellish his story - not on seeing a random spectator at 12.15 pm.

How did that observation imply a conspiracy or a co-conspirator?

Nice, you are trying to create a witness that doesn't exist because you don't have one and blame me for the failure of the effort. Rowland does not see another person in the SN until he creates this imaginary person for the WC that is all you have shown.  Roger Craig, the detective Arnold encountered immediately after the assassination, is just more proof that he did not. Rodger has no memory at all of an additional person in the SN and Craig would have known the importance of it. Instead Rodger testifies that there was two people in the SW corner and both were white. A real crowd in the SW corner and the witness on the 6th floor, BRW, does not see a soul.

CE 27843, one change was made and the other was not. That constitutes a conspiracy? She didn't want it changed or it would have been. She obviously knew how.

There is no telling why he decided to make up a person but the one thing that can be taken from his testimony is he was certainly prone to exxaggerating.

Online Tony Fratini

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Re: Why didn't the Conspirators plant Eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza?
« Reply #254 on: September 12, 2018, 02:00:00 AM »
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Nice, you are trying to create a witness that doesn't exist because you don't have one and blame me for the failure of the effort. Rowland does not see another person in the SN until he creates this imaginary person for the WC that is all you have shown.  Roger Craig, the detective Arnold encountered immediately after the assassination, is just more proof that he did not. Rodger has no memory at all of an additional person in the SN and Craig would have known the importance of it. Instead Rodger testifies that there was two people in the SW corner and both were white. A real crowd in the SW corner and the witness on the 6th floor, BRW, does not see a soul.

CE 27843, one change was made and the other was not. That constitutes a conspiracy? She didn't want it changed or it would have been. She obviously knew how.

There is no telling why he decided to make up a person but the one thing that can be taken from his testimony is he was certainly prone to exxaggerating.

Please see my new thread  ;D

« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 05:30:48 AM by Tony Fratini »

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Re: Why didn't the Conspirators plant Eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza?
« Reply #254 on: September 12, 2018, 02:00:00 AM »


Online Mike Orr

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Re: Why didn't the Conspirators plant Eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza?
« Reply #255 on: September 14, 2018, 03:34:22 AM »
The conspirators planted all these fake agents and we see that Lansdale was there and probably many more like E Howard Hunt and Bush and on and on and on. I find it rather odd that Kennedy was taken out in a venue where if there had not been shooters in the front who actually made the frontal neck and frontal head shots , that were fatal , then JFK might have survived the assassination attempt. Our country took one of the worst turns in the history of our nation the day JFK was murdered in the streets of Dallas. For those who believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was a Lone Assassin , well , we can't help you ! Is the JFK case , a closed case because of people like J. Edgar Hoover saying , we have our man , case closed but if you don't believe me , just wait until the 26 volumes come out , outlining the whole scenario . That ought to do it !!!!! Who wouldn't trust J. Edgar Hoover , LBJ's close friend !!!!!!!!

Offline Nicholas Turner

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Re: Why didn't the Conspirators plant Eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza?
« Reply #256 on: September 14, 2018, 10:42:09 AM »
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For those who believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was a Lone Assassin , well , we can't help you !

You can, you can present some solid evidence rather than supposition, conjecture and rumour.

Offline Allan Fritzke

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Re: Why didn't the Conspirators plant Eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza?
« Reply #257 on: September 14, 2018, 06:52:08 PM »
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You should read the testimony more closely, Jerry. The two black women he saw he said were on the second floor.

"Mr. ROWLAND - Those pair of windows. I think this was all on that floor.
Here on this floor.
Mr. SPECTER - Indicating the second floor?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes.
Mr. SPECTER - Circle the windows and mark it with a "0" if you will.
Mr. ROWLAND - I think it was this pair immediately over the door, and this pair.
Mr. SPECTER - Mark one "0" and one "D," if you will.
(Witness marking.)

Mr. ROWLAND - Here I know there were two Negro women, I think.
Mr. SPECTER - Indicating window "0." You say two Negro women?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes.
Mr. SPECTER - And were those women each in one window, both in one window or what?
Mr. ROWLAND - They were one in each window. Then at the window "D" there was one, one window open.
Mr. SPECTER - Which was that, indicate that by an arrow, if you please.
(Witness marking.)

Mr. ROWLAND - Here I know there were two Negro women, I think.
Mr. SPECTER - Indicating window "0." You say two Negro women?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes.
Mr. SPECTER - And were those women each in one window, both in one window or what?
Mr. ROWLAND - They were one in each window. Then at the window "D" there was one, one window open.
Mr. SPECTER - Which was that, indicate that by an arrow, if you please.

(Witness marking.)
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The interesting thing about this picture as shown in Jerry Organ's post is that you can see a "D" on the second floor "circlings" and a sort of "dot Oish" on the 3rd floor with 2 corresponding windows at that level.  When you match this to the recorded statement, Mr. Specter requests to indicate by an arrow the 2 locations of the 2 black negro women ....  The circles are faint but nonetheless there and match the statement made - but the arrows do not.
Suddenly, the only arrows that are seen go onto the windows at the 6th floor - er or at least one arrow!!
Either this picture was doctored up and planted or texting was deleted or omitted out of manuscripts as there is no link between the "D" and "o" shown on the picture and the arrows which should have been drawn in on the 2nd or 3rd floor!  There is no arrows there but the testimony manuscript states that it was drawn in!
 
There is no synergy between the written statement and exhibit CE 356.  What am I missing?  Arrows should have been put at either the "D' or the "o" at 2nd or 3rd floor to match testimony statements!  Who took this picture and when?  Was it half an hour before or after assassination or totally another day!!  Clearly windows can be opened and closed at anytime and wouldn't necessarily be the same state at the time of the shooting.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 07:19:25 PM by Allan Fritzke »

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Re: Why didn't the Conspirators plant Eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza?
« Reply #257 on: September 14, 2018, 06:52:08 PM »