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Author Topic: Whose Target was General Edwin Walker?  (Read 30389 times)

Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: Whose Target was General Edwin Walker?
« Reply #110 on: August 31, 2018, 06:18:07 AM »
Cite for your claim of 15 m.p.h. being "parade speed."

From Greer:

"After we left the airport, we drove several miles at speeds ranging from 15 to 30 miles per hour depending on the crowds. When we reached the business section of Dallas the crowds were very large and the motorcycle Police along side the President's automobile had a hard time keeping the people back.

"When we came to a point where the crowd had thinned out, there was a right turn for about half a block and then a left turn. At this point, I would say the President's automobile was traveling about 12 to 15 miles per hour."

The "business section of Dallas" where the limo had to slow down was, of course, Downtown.   

Online Bill Chapman

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Re: Whose Target was General Edwin Walker?
« Reply #111 on: August 31, 2018, 06:29:00 AM »
In other words, no one can provide any support for the 44mph claim. I've asked repeatedly, and no one has ever been able to substantiate it.
He was also a crack investigator for the Church of Scientology who "found" that L Ron Hubbard was a super-secret double-nought agent for the ONI in WWII. He first achieved public notice by claiming that Alex Butterfield (who oversaw the installation of the soon-to-be infamous taping system in the Nixon White House) was a CIA plant. He associated with Neo-Nazi sympathizer Willis Carto and Carto's Liberty Lobby.

He was AF liaison with the CIA, not the Secret Service, and IIRC, no one has ever been able to substantiate his claim that he'd been involved in Presidential security, or explain what his role would have been, or show that he would have been exposed to the rules and standards that he claimed to be familiar with.
AFAIK, no one has ever been able to independently corroborate Prouty's claims about Presidential motorcade security.

The motorcade moved at parade speed, about 15mph. At that speed, those turns would have done little to slow the limo down, even with its extra length. That is, the point you're trying to make isn't really much of a point. Anyway, if reducing the President's vulnerability was the priority, they wouldn't have gone to downtown in the first place; they would have gone from Love Field to Mockingbird to Harry Hines, thence the Trade Mart, avoiding the extra trip downtown altogether.

In a way, Kennedy was the master of his own destruction, since he insisted on a motorcade against the wishes of Connally and others.

Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: Whose Target was General Edwin Walker?
« Reply #112 on: August 31, 2018, 06:39:28 AM »
In a way, Kennedy was the master of his own destruction, since he insisted on a motorcade against the wishes of Connally and others.

No more so than someone who wants to walk to the mailbox and is killed by an errant car.  To be a politician in a democracy, you have to present yourself to the public, and that carries certain inherent risks.

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Whose Target was General Edwin Walker?
« Reply #113 on: August 31, 2018, 02:41:08 PM »
:D

So John believes Marina had total recall here but otherwise claims her memory is faulty.  Notice he doesn't even attempt to explain why Marina would say this.  Is she making up the entire incident?  If so, why since she must know it would be unlikely that Nixon would be in Dallas on some random date and, thus, it could easily be verified that this didn't happen.  It doesn't make sense as a fabrication if you give it more than two seconds of thought.  So what is a plausible explanation?  Maybe that she simply confused Nixon for LBJ because they were both VPs.  That connects all dots in story - time, place, and newspaper accounts line up.  John doesn't even try to make any counter explanation.  He selectively takes a piece of testimony and then leaves a gaping void of logic unaddressed. 

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Whose Target was General Edwin Walker?
« Reply #114 on: August 31, 2018, 03:11:11 PM »
I think quite a few CTs are on the right.

Remember Cyril Wecht and the Alien Autopsy? Jim Garrison? Some well-known CTs are 911-Truthers.

Sure, the CTers transcend the left/right divide but it seems to me the main conspiracy advocates - the most famous or noted - have been people on the left: Oliver Stone, Mark Lane, David Lifton, Sylvia Meagher. We can add lesser figures like: Peter Dale Scott, Bill Simpich, Jefferson Morley, Jim DiEugenio. It's these people who have been the driving force behind the cause.

Yes, the big exception is Garrison who described himself as a conservative/libertarian. But if you listen to him on American foreign policy he sounded no different than any garden variety anti-American leftist.

There's this odd synthesis between the hard left and hard right where they support one another on this issue: Stone used Prouty and Garrison, Garrison used an anti-American Marxist Italian newspaper, Lane was published in the Liberty Lobby publication (a leftwing Jew and an anti-semitic far right organization). There's some very weird political bed mates, people and groups who would normally be calling each other fascists and communists and other names.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 04:42:59 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Whose Target was General Edwin Walker?
« Reply #115 on: August 31, 2018, 03:28:48 PM »
Sure, the CTers transcend the left/right divide but it seems to me the main conspiracy advocates have been people on the left: Oliver Stone, Mark Lane, David Lifton, Sylvia Meagher. We can add lesser figures like: Peter Dale Scott, Bill Simpich, Jefferson Morley, Jim DiEugenio.

There's this odd synthesis between the hard left and hard right where they support one another on this issue: Stone used Prouty, Garrison used an anti-American Marxist Italian newspaper, Lane was published in the Liberty Lobby publications.

There's this odd synthesis between the hard left and hard right where they support one another on this issue:

Have you considered the possibility that these folks may be intellectually honest?     They are intelligent enough to leave political bias aside in their quest for truth......

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Whose Target was General Edwin Walker?
« Reply #116 on: August 31, 2018, 03:40:14 PM »
Sure, the CTers transcend the left/right divide but it seems to me the main conspiracy advocates have been people on the left: Oliver Stone, Mark Lane, David Lifton, Sylvia Meagher. We can add lesser figures like: Peter Dale Scott, Bill Simpich, Jefferson Morley, Jim DiEugenio.

There's this odd synthesis between the hard left and hard right where they support one another on this issue: Stone used Prouty, Garrison used an anti-American Marxist Italian newspaper, Lane was published in the Liberty Lobby publications.

Unscientific observation but most of the first generation JFK skeptics were Liberals. Since the 1990s, the Rightwing seems to have more Skeptics and Conspiracy Theorists. The biggest rightwing CT?er is now Donald Trump.

Mainstream/Establishment Liberals who work for CBS, the NY Times and other traditional Media have always supported and defended the Lone Assassin narrative.

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Whose Target was General Edwin Walker?
« Reply #117 on: August 31, 2018, 04:32:29 PM »
Much of the early critical work that received a wide following was from the left. But at the same time--the mid-1960s--there were theories published in right-wing journals, as well.

I would argue that the "Saturday Evening Post" and "Argosy" were fairly right-wing, and they published many conspiracy articles over time. The "Post" published Josiah Thompson's article (based on exempts from his book) in late-1967. Epstein was considered a responsible critic. Which side of the left/right spectrum does Thompson and Epstein fall?

What about Sylvan Fox, whose book "The Unanswered Questions about the Kennedy Assassination", was widely-distributed?

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Whose Target was General Edwin Walker?
« Reply #118 on: August 31, 2018, 05:14:43 PM »
Unscientific observation but most of the first generation JFK skeptics were Liberals. Since the 1990s, the Rightwing seems to have more Skeptics and Conspiracy Theorists. The biggest rightwing CT?er is now Donald Trump.

Mainstream/Establishment Liberals who work for CBS, the NY Times and other traditional Media have always supported and defended the Lone Assassin narrative.

I said left not liberal. And also the most noted figures not ordinary people.

The main figures - the most vocal or noted people - have been people on the left: Lane, Oliver Stone, David Lifton. Garrison is the odd one here since he called himself a conservative/libertarian. Lane and Stone are leftwingers not liberals.

What conservative/right JFK conspiracy is there today? Ventura? I'm not sure you can place him on the political spectrum. He's neither right or left.

Your point about the news media is spot on; I think the criticism from the CTer side that they were too believing of the WC report is pretty accurate. The 1960s coverage by the media was too pro-government; Vietnam and Watergate changed that.

With the risk of sounding like I'm defending the man, Donald Trump has stated that he believes Oswald alone killed JFK. Sure, he smeared Cruz's father but that's how he operates. He'll say anything to attack his opponents; most of which I don't think he believes. The man has no ethical standards whatsoever.

As to conspiracy belief today: the rise of conspiracy belief, it seems to me, comes out of the extreme partisanship of the time. Bot the left and right embrace all kinds of conspiracy thinking if they can use it to attack the other side. It's all mud slinging now; no sense of decency at all.

The best example of this is the collusion theory: the left believes Trump conspired to Putin to affect the election; the right believes Trump is a victim of a "deep state" conspiracy that is out to destroy him. Both side don't care at all about promoting the theories without much evidence.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 05:44:16 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Whose Target was General Edwin Walker?
« Reply #119 on: August 31, 2018, 05:48:09 PM »
I said left not liberal. And also the most noted figures not ordinary people.

The main figures - the most vocal or noted people - have been people on the left: Lane, Oliver Stone, David Lifton. Garrison is the odd one here since he called himself a conservative/libertarian. Lane and Stone are leftwingers not liberals.

What conservative/right JFK conspiracy is there today? Ventura? I'm not sure you can place him on the political spectrum. He's neither right or left.

With the risk of sounding like I'm defending the man, Donald Trump has stated that he believes Oswald alone killed JFK. Sure, he smeared Cruz's father but that's how he operates. He'll say anything to attack his opponents; most of which I don't think he believes. The man has no ethical standards whatsoever.

As to conspiracy belief today: the rise of conspiracy belief, it seems to me, comes out of the extreme partisanship of the time. Bot the left and right embrace all kinds of conspiracy thinking if they can use it to attack the other side. It's all mud slinging now; no sense of decency at all.

The best example of this is the collusion theory: the left believes Trump conspired to Putin to affect the election; the right believes Trump is a victim of a "deep state" conspiracy that is out to destroy him. Both side don't care at all about promoting the theories without much evidence.

I don?t see any distinction between ?Leftist? and ?Liberal?. Sometimes I use the qualification ?Establishment? or ?Mainstream? when referring to people who aren?t Far-Left leaning.

Jim Marrs, Roger Stone, Jerome Corsi, and Ron Paul are a few of the well known Rightwing JFK assassination skeptics. I?m sure there are more and broadly speaking, Rightwingers in general are dabbling more in Conspiracy Theories today than the Left.

Trump used the Obama Birth Certificate conspiracy to transition from his Entertainment career to political commentary. Lots of Trump supporters believe the QAnon Conspiracy Theory. Alex Jones has a huge rightwing following. Fox News promotes any Conspiracy Theory involving the Clintons.

The Trump-Russia Conspiracy Theory is accepted by Mainstream Liberals and the Intelligence Community because both have agendas.

Liberals want to Impeach Trump.

The Intelligence Community doesn?t want Trump to end Sanctions against Russia or withdraw from NATO. The Deep State isn?t anti-Trump, they?re anti- ?Change?. They don?t want the post-WWII global order to end...
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 05:57:35 PM by Jon Banks »

 

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