Author Topic: Did Hickey fire the fatal shot?  (Read 4842 times)

Offline Tom Dooley

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Did Hickey fire the fatal shot?
« on: January 15, 2018, 09:46:49 PM »
For those few who might not have heard of the theory:
Secret Service Agent Hickey may have accidentally discharged his AR-15, causing the fatal head wound.
I am a newbie here, and certainly not even close to being as informed as many of you here, but I have read several books on this subject, watched probably every bit of video on youtube, traveled to Dealey plaza myself a couple years ago and of all the theories out there, this one made the most sense to me personally, but few seem to believe it. So, for purely my own peace of mind:
I would love to hear any facts that might disprove this theory.
For obvious reasons, please refrain from any testimony from any secret service agent, or FBI agent, or CIA agent, but all else would be greatly appreciated.

I will add that there are a few things about it that bother me, but the most significant might be the third shell casing found on the 6th floor that had a dent in it, so as to be used for a "chamber plug" . So maybe that is a good place to start?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 10:04:02 PM by Tom Dooley »

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: Did Hickey fire the fatal shot?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2018, 01:16:39 PM »
For those few who might not have heard of the theory:
Secret Service Agent Hickey may have accidentally discharged his AR-15, causing the fatal head wound.
I am a newbie here, and certainly not even close to being as informed as many of you here, but I have read several books on this subject, watched probably every bit of video on youtube, traveled to Dealey plaza myself a couple years ago and of all the theories out there, this one made the most sense to me personally, but few seem to believe it. So, for purely my own peace of mind:
I would love to hear any facts that might disprove this theory.
For obvious reasons, please refrain from any testimony from any secret service agent, or FBI agent, or CIA agent, but all else would be greatly appreciated.

I will add that there are a few things about it that bother me, but the most significant might be the third shell casing found on the 6th floor that had a dent in it, so as to be used for a "chamber plug" . So maybe that is a good place to start?

 I can tell you this.  A film taken by Charles Bronson(not the actor) shows the Secret Service car at the moment of the fatal shot.  There is no rifle in Hickey's hands. 

 The dented lip in one of the shell casings is nothing new. Other carcano's do the same thing.  I fired a Carcano owned by Todd Vaughan, along with a group of other people, and every third shell that was ejected had a dented lip and the bullet from it hit its mark.   I hope this helps.

Offline Tom Dooley

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Re: Did Hickey fire the fatal shot?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2018, 04:01:46 PM »
Yeah I've seen the Bronson footage but I don't get "proof" out of it from what I've see. If anything, it looks like what could be a rifle in the hands of someone in the folllow up car slightly before the head shot. There is a black line leaning forward at about a 45 degree angle in at least one of the frames I've seen anyway. It seems to appear to be pretty close to scale. If it is a rifle, Hickey misled the WC by saying/implying he didn't grab the rifle until just before the overpass. None of this is very conclusive, including his testimony, since he was, in fact very close to the overpass as far as he could tell possibly. He definitely stated that he didn't pick up the rifle until AFTER the head shot. If the frames in the Bronson film showing what looks to be a rifle to me are within about one second of the head shot, then of course, he lied. At any rate, as far as the film, I either found it more plausible than not that someone in that car might well be holding the rifle. If he didn't grab the rifle until the time he said, he sure wasn't very responsive to the shots that everyone else seemed to be hearing for a person who wasn't hung over. p.s. I know I broke my one stipulation about quoting agent's testimony, but I thought in this context it made sense.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Did Hickey fire the fatal shot?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2018, 05:02:20 PM »
For those few who might not have heard of the theory:
Secret Service Agent Hickey may have accidentally discharged his AR-15, causing the fatal head wound.
I am a newbie here, and certainly not even close to being as informed as many of you here, but I have read several books on this subject, watched probably every bit of video on youtube, traveled to Dealey plaza myself a couple years ago and of all the theories out there, this one made the most sense to me personally, but few seem to believe it. So, for purely my own peace of mind:
I would love to hear any facts that might disprove this theory.
For obvious reasons, please refrain from any testimony from any secret service agent, or FBI agent, or CIA agent, but all else would be greatly appreciated.

I will add that there are a few things about it that bother me, but the most significant might be the third shell casing found on the 6th floor that had a dent in it, so as to be used for a "chamber plug" . So maybe that is a good place to start?

SteveB is right about the dent thing. Google Chad Zimmerman dent* in regards that.
BTW, good sources re these Carcano matters are online gun nuts, plenty of whom have those Oswald-type weapons and will usually report differing results than what CTers claim hereabouts.

I've not been to Dealey Plaza. I hear from visitors that the plaza is much smaller than they imagined, (and that Kennedy was pretty much a 'sitting duck') Did you get that idea about the place?


*CE 543: Quite Possibly the Most Understood Dent
Chad R. Zimmerman


 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 05:04:51 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Tom Dooley

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Re: Did Hickey fire the fatal shot?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2018, 05:19:07 PM »
I will look into the dent on the casing using your information. Thank you for that. As far as Dealey Plaza, I had  what I thought was a pretty good sense of the scale of the place from the countless hours of photos and videos I had seen. But then I would hear certain documentaries and other people saying how small the place was so I had expected to be surprised by the compactness of the Plaza. However, after I got there the whole place seemed exactly to size of what I had in my head. I will say the picket fence seemed closer than the photos that had been examined by Gary Mack and others that showed 'Dog Man'. That experience kind of indicated to me that anyone standing up there with their head above the fence would have been seen much clearer than the 'dog man' proposal. That said, and having done a fair amount of hunting myself, I think that 2 or 3 shots from the sixth floor would have to require a great amount of luck to hit a moving target. It is not an easy shot even with a 4x magnification scope. I have never seen, held, nor fired a Carcano but from most peoples opinion, it is a pretty lousy weapon. To Steve Barber: How did you find the accuracy/repeatability of the Carcano when you fired it?? Also, were the dents caused by the ejection action ?? Thanks again.

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Did Hickey fire the fatal shot?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2018, 06:25:52 PM »


Above: Hickey sat on top of the "Queen Mary's" back seat.



Above: Hickey still seated (and now looking backward) in the Altgens photo, taken at Z255, about three seconds before the head shot.



About the time of the head shot, Bennett (whom I believe the arrow points to) and Hickey are both seated.



Above: The black line that could be Agent Hickey's AR-15 rifle raised up.



Above: Bennett and Hickey remain seated all though the head shot sequence.



Above: How high up Hickey would have to be standing to clear the windshield (plus a little more to allow for the Queen Mary's raised sun visor??). Some have claimed that this frame shows Hickey was standing, but the taller figure is one of the two women standing on the curb.

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Did Hickey fire the fatal shot?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2021, 09:08:44 AM »
If in Zapruder's film the lady in orange (looks red here) is in line with JFK then this is Z296.
If the lady with white shoes is in line with JFK then this is Z309.
It has been said that it is Z313, ie the time of the fatal headshot, i dont agree.
It depends on exactly where Zapruder is standing.
Hickey is holding the AR15 well up, but is still seated (high up on some cases on the back seat).
At Z313 Hickey will stand up a little, & jerk forward because the QM brakes suddenly, accidentally firing.
He has 4 or perhaps 17 frames ie 0.2 sec or perhaps 1.0 sec to do the dirty deed.
I reckon that its possible.

If my idea of where Zapruder is standing is badly out & if the scene is actually at say Z322 then that would have given Hickey 9 frames or 0.5 sec to sit down after the shot, or fall down more likely.  That would work too.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 09:26:38 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Online Gerry Down

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Re: Did Hickey fire the fatal shot?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2021, 11:03:44 AM »
The Bronson photos are chilling. They show just how close the Secret Service car was to the back of Kennedys limo. They are practically right on top of him.

I wouldn't fault Clint Hill though for not making it there in time. Trying to jump running off a car that is travelling perhaps 8mph is very difficult to do. Alot of people would have fallen.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Did Hickey fire the fatal shot?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2021, 11:43:31 AM »

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Did Hickey fire the fatal shot?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2021, 12:20:02 PM »
For those few who might not have heard of the theory:
Secret Service Agent Hickey may have accidentally discharged his AR-15, causing the fatal head wound.
I am a newbie here, and certainly not even close to being as informed as many of you here, but I have read several books on this subject, watched probably every bit of video on youtube, traveled to Dealey plaza myself a couple years ago and of all the theories out there, this one made the most sense to me personally, but few seem to believe it. So, for purely my own peace of mind:
I would love to hear any facts that might disprove this theory.
For obvious reasons, please refrain from any testimony from any secret service agent, or FBI agent, or CIA agent, but all else would be greatly appreciated.

I will add that there are a few things about it that bother me, but the most significant might be the third shell casing found on the 6th floor that had a dent in it, so as to be used for a "chamber plug" . So maybe that is a good place to start?

Obviously, if Hickey accidentally shot JFK in the head this would have happened in front of the crowds of people stood a few feet away. The noise would have been very loud. The SS follow up car was very close to the limo so many people would have had a perfect view of the whole thing. Not one person in the crowd, stood only a few feet away, reported seeing Hickey shoot JFK in the head. Hickey would have been stood up really high, he would have been very noticeable. The AR-15 is a big gun, dozens of people would have had a very clear view of it pointing at JFK as the vehicles passed by and, as I say, the noise would have been really loud.
Dozens of people, stood only a few feet away, would have witnessed this incident.
But none did.
Because it never happened.

 

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