Author Topic: The evolution of CE 142 - what the flap?  (Read 272598 times)

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Online Michael Capasse

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Re: The evolution of CE 142 - what the flap?
« Reply #2828 on: March 18, 2017, 09:44:41 PM »
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As I recall Weitzman got the scope right, not bad at a glance...


You had to go and mention Weitzman on the inventory list
..and that reminded me he's the "gun expert"...
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 10:03:26 PM
by Michael Capasse
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Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The evolution of CE 142 - what the flap?
« Reply #2829 on: March 18, 2017, 10:37:40 PM »
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nothing generic about 7.65 in every statement (4)
or German Made





I'm talking about the WC testimony where he had to be reminded of exactly what he said  to the FBI months earlier
Why didn't he automatically remember the Mauser specifically in the WC testimony. He said 'Mauser-like action' in the WC testimony
 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 10:39:37 PM
by Bill Chapman
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Online Michael Capasse

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Re: The evolution of CE 142 - what the flap?
« Reply #2830 on: March 18, 2017, 10:40:57 PM »
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I'm talking about the WC testimony where he had to be reminded of exactly what he said  to the FBI months earlier
Why didn't he automatically remember the Mauser specifically in the WC testimony. He said 'Mauser-like action' in the WC testimony
 

why don't you ask him why Wetzman said 7.65 or German made

He asks: I understand that. Now, in your statement to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, you gave a description of the rifle, how it looked
A statement of the 25th says exactly "..the rifle looked like a 7.65 German Made Mauser.."
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 11:51:58 PM
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Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The evolution of CE 142 - what the flap?
« Reply #2831 on: March 18, 2017, 10:50:37 PM »
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why don't you ask him why Wetzman said 7.65 or German made

He asks: I understand that. Now, in your statement to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, you gave a description of the rifle, how it looked
The statement of the 25th says exactly "..the rifle looked like a 7.65 German Made Mauser.."

I think Weitzman heard Fritz stating that the rifle looked like a mauser....But Fritz would not admit that he was the person who started that story flying, and Weittzman was the low man on the ladder......  He  got stepped on.

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: The evolution of CE 142 - what the flap?
« Reply #2832 on: March 18, 2017, 11:07:59 PM »
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I think Weitzman heard Fritz stating that the rifle looked like a mauser....But Fritz would not admit that he was the person who started that story flying, and Weittzman was the low man on the ladder......  He  got stepped on.

Maybe, but Weitzman said he was the source, at least in his testimony.

     Mr. BALL - In the statement that you made to the Dallas Police
          Department that afternoon, you referred to the rifle as a
          7.65 Mauser bolt action?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - In a glance, that's what it looked like.
     Mr. BALL - That's what it looked like did you say that or someone
          else say that?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - No; I said that. I thought it was one.

They then sort of go over whether Weitzman had some basis for such a confident guess ...

     Mr. BALL - Are you fairly familiar with rifles?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - Fairly familiar because I was in the sporting
          goods business awhile.
     Mr. BALL - What branch of service were you in?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - U.S. Air Force.
     Mr. BALL - Did you handle rifles?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - Mostly Thompson machine guns and pistols.

I might think from that it wasn't Weitzman making Fritz look good, but Weitzman making himself look good to Fritz and company by being the "expert" on the sixth floor and back at the station.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The evolution of CE 142 - what the flap?
« Reply #2833 on: March 18, 2017, 11:35:43 PM »
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Maybe, but Weitzman said he was the source, at least in his testimony.

     Mr. BALL - In the statement that you made to the Dallas Police
          Department that afternoon, you referred to the rifle as a
          7.65 Mauser bolt action?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - In a glance, that's what it looked like.
     Mr. BALL - That's what it looked like did you say that or someone
          else say that?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - No; I said that. I thought it was one.

They then sort of go over whether Weitzman had some basis for such a confident guess ...

     Mr. BALL - Are you fairly familiar with rifles?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - Fairly familiar because I was in the sporting
          goods business awhile.
     Mr. BALL - What branch of service were you in?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - U.S. Air Force.
     Mr. BALL - Did you handle rifles?
     Mr. WEITZMAN - Mostly Thompson machine guns and pistols.

I might think from that it wasn't Weitzman making Fritz look good, but Weitzman making himself look good to Fritz and company by being the "expert" on the sixth floor and back at the station.

Weitzman wouldn't have countermanded his superiors.....  If he was told to accept that it was his mistake because Captain Fritz was on record as saying that Seymour Weitzman was the man who identified the rifle as a Mauser, Weitzman would have had little choice but to accept the blame.    You can detect that in his testimony......He didn't like accepting the blame.      The fact that on Saturday  11 /23 /63 the FBI created a statement in which they claimed that Weitzman gave a very detailed description of the rifle  is a very strong indicator that Weitzman was being used as cover for Fritz....

Online Tony Fratini

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Re: The evolution of CE 142 - what the flap?
« Reply #2834 on: March 19, 2017, 12:05:07 AM »
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Looks like Officer Baker corroborates Ozzie on the changed shirt.

Was it the DPD or the FBI who found(planted) the shirt fibers on the Carcano?


Testimony Of Marrion L. Baker

~snip~

Mr. BELIN - Would you state whether or not the man who was shown to you in the police station as Lee Harvey Oswald was or was not the same man that you saw and encountered on the second floor lunchroom of the Texas School Book Depository Building on that day?
Mr. BAKER - He was the same man.
Mr. BELIN- Is there anything else about his clothes that you can remember or his dress that you haven't talked about here?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir; I can't.
Mr. DULLES - Do you recall whether or not he was wearing the same clothes, did he appear to you the same when you saw him in the police station as when you saw him in the lunchroom?
Mr. BAKER - Actually just looking at him, he looked like he didn't have the same thing on.
Mr. BELIN - He looked as though he did not have the same thing on?
Mr. BAKER - He looked like he did not have the same on.

~snip~

Brennan

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what kind of clothes he was wearing?
Mr. BRENNAN. Light colored clothes, more of a khaki color.

Mr. BRENNAN. No, other than light, and a khaki color--maybe in khaki. I mean other than light color--not a real white shirt, in other words. If it was a white shirt, it was on the dingy side.
Mr. BELIN. I am handing you what the court reporter has marked as Commission Exhibit 150.
Does this look like it might or might not be the shirt, or can you make at this time any positive identification of any kind?
Mr. BRENNAN. I would have expected it to be a little lighter--a shade or so lighter.
Mr. BELIN. Than Exhibit 150?
Mr. BRENNAN. That is the best of my recollection.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Could you see the man's trousers at all?
Do you remember any color?
Mr. BRENNAN. I remembered them at that time as being similar to the same color of the shirt or a little lighter. And that was another thing that I called their attention to at the lineup.
Mr. BELIN. What do you mean by that?
Mr. BRENNAN. That he was not dressed in the same clothes that I saw the man in the window.
Mr. BELIN. You mean with reference to the trousers or the shirt?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, not particularly either. In other words, he just didn't have the same clothes on.

Reid

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what clothes he had on when you saw him?
Mrs. REID. What he was wearing, he had on a white T-shirt and some kind of wash trousers. What color I couldn't tell you.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you what has been marked Commission Exhibit, first 157 and then 158, and I will ask you if either or both look like they might have been the trousers that you saw him wear or can you tell?
Mrs. REID. I just couldn't be positive about that. I would rather not say, because I just cannot.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether he had any shirt or jacket on over his T-shirt?
Mrs. REID. He did not. He did not have any jacket on.
Mr. BELIN. Have you ever seen anyone working at the book depository wearing any kind of a shirt or jacket similar to Commission Exhibit 150 or do you know?
Mrs. REID. No; I do not. I have never, so far as I know ever seen that shirt. I have been asked about that shirt before, I have seen it once before but not since all this happened

Was Lee carrying a spare wardrobe with him at the TSBD?

« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 12:05:49 AM
by Tony Fratini
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