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Author Topic: Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #322  (Read 25 times)

Offline Rob Caprio

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Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #322
« on: August 11, 2018, 03:31:08 AM »
📥 "Whether you agree with him or not, researchers such as Rob Caprio for example, took the sensible initiative and saved his own research, and he is now reposting them back on the Forum.
All other members are free to do the same.” –Duncan MacRae

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Disclaimer: I will no longer respond to any posts that are off topic and/or meant to derail the issue of the opening post. This should not be taken as me running, but instead seen as me keeping the topic on track.

I have no issue with any WC defender, therefore, I am happy to discuss the case in a manner that uses the actual evidence with them. IF the WC was correct in their final conclusion as they claim then this should be no problem for them.

I will not participate in any personal discussions with them as these are meant to distract and discredit instead of focusing on the JFK assassination. I come here to discuss and learn about the JFK assassination and nothing more.

No more games with the LNers. The LNers have to to discuss the WC's, HSCA's and ARRB's evidence or move along.

One would think IF the assassination occurred as the WC said then the LNers would welcome the opportunity to discuss and refute the posts in this series, but they seem more determined to have the posts stopped. I think that this shows that the WC's version of events is not correct.

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The Warren Commission (WC) said Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) shot and killed President John F. Kennedy (JFK) on November 22, 1963. The WC also said he was arrested for the murder of Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit (JDT) at 1:51 p.m. and that he was not thought to have murdered JFK until later on.

This post will look at this issue to determine exactly when the Dallas Police Department (DPD) learned of LHO’s alleged involvement in the JFK assassination.


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Here is what the WC wrote about this matter in their Report (WCR).

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As Fritz and Day were completing their examination of this rifle on the sixth floor [of the Texas School Book Depository], Roy Truly, the building superintendent, approached with information which he felt should be brought to the attention of the police. Earlier, while the police were questioning the employees, Truly had observed that Lee Harvey Oswald, one of the 15 men who worked in the warehouse, was missing. After Truly provided Oswald's name, address, and general description, Fritz left for police headquarters. He arrived at headquarters shortly after 2 p.m. (WCR, p. 9)

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This says Truly noticed LHO was not one of the 15 men who worked in the warehouse being questioned, so he brought this to the attention of the DPD. We then see this version of events on another page of the WCR.

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When he [Fritz] entered the homicide and robbery bureau office, he saw two detectives standing there with Sergeant Gerald L. Hill, who had driven from the theater with Oswald. Hill testified that Fritz told the detective to get a search warrant, go to an address on Fifth Street in Irving, and pick up a man named Lee Oswald. When Hill asked why Oswald was wanted, Fritz replied, "Well, he was employed down at the Book Depository and he had not been present for a roll call of the employees." Hill said, "Captain, we will save you a trip . . . there he sits." (WCR, p. 180)

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So now we see that it was NOT until Fritz returned to the DPD Headquarters (HQ) that he was told LHO was already apprehended when he told detectives to get a warrant for Ruth Paine’s home. Of course you need probable cause to get a search warrant and the whole reason we are told LHO was wanted was because he “was not seen being interviewed by the DPD” after the assassination by Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) superintendent Roy Truly.

Mr. BELIN. Then what?

Mr. TRULY. Then in a few minutes--it could have been moments or minutes at a time like that--I noticed some of my boys were over in the west corner of the shipping department, and there were several officers over there taking their names and addresses, and so forth. There were other officers in other parts of the building taking other employees, like office people's names. I noticed that Lee Oswald was not among these boys.

So I picked up the telephone and called Mr. Aiken down at the other warehouse who keeps our application blanks. Back up there. First I mentioned to Mr. Campbell--I asked Bill Shelley if he had seen him, he looked around and said no.

Mr. BELIN. When you asked Bill Shelley if he had seen whom?

Mr. TRULY. Lee Oswald. I said, "Have you seen him around lately," and he said no. So Mr. Campbell is standing there, and I said, "I have a boy over here missing. I don't know whether to report it or not." Because I had another one or two out then. I didn't know whether they were all there or not. He said, "What do you think"? And I got to thinking. He said, "Well, we better do it anyway." It was so quick after that.

So I picked the phone up then and called Mr. Aiken, at the warehouse, and got the boy's name and general description and telephone number and address at Irving.

The interesting thing here is Truly mentioned another “one or two” employees were out (i.e. missing), but he saw no reason to report them.

Mr. BELIN. Did you ask for the name and addresses of any other employees who might have been missing?
 
Mr. TRULY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Why didn't you ask for any other employees?

Mr. TRULY. That is the only one that I could be certain right then was missing.

Why was he “so sure” that LHO was missing, but no one else was? Truly would make it clear this was his own doing when he appeared before the WC a second time. While he had been recalled for other issues, this topic came up and here is what he said.

Mr. BALL. Now, what did you tell Chief Lumpkin when you came down from the roof of the building?

Mr. TRULY. When I noticed this boy was missing, I told Chief Lumpkin that "We have a man here that's missing." I said, "It my not mean anything, but he isn't here." I first called down to the other warehouse and had Mr. Akin pull the application of the boy so I could get--quickly get his address in Irving and his general description, so I could be more accurate than I would be.

Mr. BALL. Was he the only man missing?

Mr. TRULY. The only one I noticed at that time. Now, I think there was one or two more, possibly Charles Givens, but I had seen him out in front walking up the street just before the firing of the gun.

Charles Givens would have an All Poings Bulletin (APB) put out for him, but Truly saw no reason to report him missing. Why not? He made it clear this was all his doing in this portion of his testimony.

Mr. BALL. Now, you told Chief Lumpkin that there was a man missing?

Mr. TRULY. Yes; and he said, "Let's go tell Captain Fritz." Well, I didn't know where Captain Fritz was.

Mr. BALL. Now, did you tell Chief Lumpkin the man was missing before or after you called to the warehouse and got the name?

Mr. TRULY. No, I called the warehouse beforehand.

Mr. BALL. You didn't talk to any police officer before you called the warehouse and got the address?

Mr. TRULY. Not that I remember.

Mr. BALL. You did that on your own without instructions?

Mr. TRULY. That's right.

Why was Truly so hell-bent on reporting LHO missing? There was NO roll call either as we again see in this post that Truly simply reacted to not seeing LHO being questioned by the DPD according to him. What is not explained is why this alarmed Truly so much when he had seen LHO in the second floor lunchroom with DPD Officer Marrion Baker and that he vouched for him. What changed in that short period of time to make LHO so suspicious to Truly?

The next link in this tale is Captain Will Fritz. Here is what he said about this in his WC testimony.


Mr. BALL. While you were there Mr. Truly came up to you?

Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; where the rifle was found. That was about the time we finished Mr. Truly came and told me that one of his employees had left the building, and I asked his name and he gave me his name, Lee Harvey Oswald, and I asked his address and he gave me the Irving address.

Mr. BALL. This was after the rifle was found?

Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; after the rifle was found.

Despite the rifle being found recently and the three cartridge cases having been found not long before, Captain Fritz said he felt it necessary to leave the TSBD as soon as he was told about LHO being missing.

Mr. BALL. How long did you stay at the Texas School Book Depository after you found the rifle?

Mr. FRITZ. After he told me about this man almost, I left immediately after he told me that.

Mr. BALL. You left almost immediately after he told you that?

Mr. FRITZ. Almost after he told me that man, I felt it important to hold that man.

What was so important about LHO being missing that he would just bolt out of the supposed crime scene as soon as he was told this? He then explains what happened when he got to DPD HQ.

Mr. BALL. Did you give descriptions to Sims and Boyd?

Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I told them to drive me to city hall and see if the man had a criminal record and we picked up two other officers and my intentions were to go to the house at Irving. When I got to the city hall, I asked, because, I will tell you why I asked because while we were in the building we heard that our officer had been killed, someone came in and told me, I asked when I got to my office who shot the officer, and they told me his name was Oswald, and I said, "His full name?" And they told me and I said, "That is the suspect we are looking for in the President's killing."

This statement by Fritz showed they were looking for LHO as the suspect in the JFK killing when later on they claimed there were not.

Another version of events would be presented by Dallas Police Officer C.W. Brown when he appeared before the WC.


Mr. BROWN. …Then as we got outside, of course, the phones were ringing. I answered the phone. It was Captain Fritz. He was still at the scene on the sixth floor of the School Book Depository, and I told him that the officers had just brought in a suspect that had shot the police officer, and told him about Mr. Shelley telling me that this boy that was identified was Lee Harvey Oswald, was also an employee there.

He said, "I will be right up in a few minutes."

Mr. BELIN. Where was Captain Fritz at this time?

Mr. BROWN. He was still at the scene of the shooting, at the Texas School Book Depository. He called from there.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. BROWN. I told him it looked like we might have the boy that was responsible for that. He said, "Okay, I will be up in a few minutes."

Mr. BELIN. What did you mean by "that," for the assassination?

Mr. BROWN. For the President's assassination. That was my own personal opinion at that time.

We see that Brown said there was already a thought that LHO was responsible for JFK's murder as well and this is supported by the Arrest Report as it listed LHO shot and killed BOTH JFK and JDT. Brown’s version is corroborated by Sheriff J.E. (Bill) Decker’s account in his report on the events that occurred that day.

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After my first arrival at the Texas School Book Depository Building from Parkland Hospital, Captain Fritz of the DPD, Homicide Division arrived and he went on up into the Texas School Book Depository Building, leaving a pair of his officers downstairs where they opened up their automobile and brought out rifles to assist them in securing the building. Shortly thereafter Captain Fritz came to my office where he contacted his department by telephone and advised me that the suspect, Lee Harvey Oswald, had been apprehended in the Texas Theater in Oak Cliff. Also he advised me that Oswald had been employed in the Texas School Book Depository. (Decker Exhibit 5323, p. 461)

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In his testimony before the WC Sheriff Decker was even more on point about this issue.

Mr. HUBERT - Now, when did you make any efforts to take custody of Oswald?

Mr. DECKER - I can't tell you that as to when…Then, I talked to Fritz after he arrived….we went across the street and he phoned and that's when I learned Oswald had been formerly employed there at that building.

Both of these examples (Brown and Decker) show Fritz was NOT told about LHO missing and possibly being the assassin of JFK as Truly and Fritz said since he did NOT know until AFTER he called into DPD HQ. It also shows Fritz did not even know LHO was an employee of the TSBD until he phoned in to the DPD HQ. Again we see, as we do throughout this case, that there are multiple version of events for everything. Why? IF most of this is the truth and as it happened, why are there so many discrepancies all the time in the evidence?

The DPD would  say LHO was arrested for the murder of JDT, and NOT JFK, but again we see evidence that does NOT support this claim in the twenty-six volumes. The “star” witness for the Texas Theater (TT) arrest would testify to this.


Mr. BELIN - You saw the gun up in the air?

Mr. BREWER - And somebody hollered "He's got a gun."

And there were a couple of officers fighting him and taking the gun away from him, and they took the gun from him, and he was fighting, still fighting, and I heard some of the police holier, I don't know who it was, "Kill the President, will you." And I saw fists flying and they were hitting him.

Kill the President? I thought they were after LHO for shooting JDT? Of course the WC would dismiss this comment in their Report.

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He [Johnny Brewer] further stated that while fists were flying he heard one of the officers say “Kill the President, will you.” It is UNLIKELY that any of the police officers referred to Oswald as a suspect in the assassination. While the police radio had noted the SIMILARITY in description of the TWO suspects, the arresting officers were pursuing Oswald for the murder of Tippit. (WCR, p. 179) (Emphasis added)

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In classic fashion the WC discredits their OWN witness by saying it is unlikely he heard this simple statement. IF he is so bad at hearing and listening, how can we trust him for anything else? I mean, they relied on him to notice LHO (allegedly) in an excited state and put two and two together, but on the other hand he can’t hear a simple statement correctly? Notice too how the WCR mentions TWO suspects so they were claiming the DPD were looking for a shooter in EACH murder, but we all know that is not true as LHO was the ONLY man arrested and kept locked up all weekend. From the time LHO was arrested (1:51 p.m.) until the time he was charged with the murder of JFK (almost twelve hours later) the DPD arrested no one else for the murder of JFK? Why not if they thought there were two suspects?

If any WC defender doubts my statement above then explain this testimony by Julia Postal.


Mrs. POSTAL. So, seemed like I hung up the intercom phone when here all of a sudden, police cars, policemen, plainclothesmen, I never saw so many people in my life. And they raced in, and the next thing I knew, they were carrying----well, that is when I first heard Officer Tippit had been shot because some officer came in the box office and used the phone, said, "I think we have got our man on both accounts."

This portion of her testimony is interesting for several reasons. Firstly, it seems like as soon as she hung up with the police they showed up. Were they that fast or where they headed there already? Secondly, we see the police officer say in her presence that they thought they had “their man for both accounts” meaning the JDT shooting and the JFK assassination. This is not what the DPD and the WC would claim later on of course. What made them change their claim? Especially when the Arrest Report timed at "1:40 p.m." (a full eleven minutes BEFORE LHO was arrested) states LHO shot both JFK and JDT.

As was said earlier, Truly vouched for LHO when he was confronted by DPD Officer Marrion Baker, so what made him suspicious of LHO so soon afterwards? Truly would testify to becoming suspicious around 1:20 p.m. when he did not see LHO being questioned by the police. What could have gone on to change Truly’s opinion of LHO so fast?

What made Fritz want to leave the crime scene that could have involved more then one person to head to an area outside the city jurisdiction (Paine’s house) all because one employee was missing? And not even the ONLY one as Charles Givens was unaccounted for too and would have an APB put out on him? To add another layer, why was Fritz so interested in a person who had been cleared by one of his officers (Baker) already? Could Fritz not have called the Irving Police Department and asked them to check the Paine house out for LHO? I guess not as Fritz left the alleged murder scene to go to Irving when he had NO jurisdiction to look for a man who had done nothing but left the building supposedly. In fact, Fritz was so alarmed he forget to broadcast LHO’s description to his force so they could be looking for him too.

Then we saw Frtiz felt LHO was so key to the case that he went to see Sheriff Decker and the DPD HQ first before even beginning his search for LHO. Does this make any sense to you? Fritz would get some help from Sergeant Gerald Hill who is also a man that seemed to be everywhere on November 22, 1963, and he also gave a lot of incorrect testimony on many issues.


Mr. HILL.  … We were trying to get together to decide who was going to make the offense report and get all the little technicalities out of the way when a detective named Richard Stovall and another one, G. F. Rose, came up, and the four of us were standing when Captain Fritz walked in.

He walked up to Rose and Stovall and made the statement to them, "Go get a search warrant and go out to some address on Fifth Street," and I don't recall the actual street number, in Irving, and "pick up a man named Lee Oswald."

And I asked the captain why he wanted him, and he said, "Well, he was employed down at the Book Depository and he had not been present for a roll call of the employees."

And we said, "Captain, we will save you a trip," or words to that effect, "Because there he sits."

This is the testimony along with Captain Fritz’s that the WC relied on, while ignoring both Brown’s and Sheriff Decker’s. As we have seen previously in this series, and in Truly’s own testimony, NO roll call ever took place. IT was simply a matter of Truly supposedly noticing LHO was not being questioned by the police that made him suspicious of LHO when he had cleared him just as short time before when he was confronted by Baker. All of this should have been investigated by the WC, but was not. Why not?

This is a key issue in showing whether LHO was found on legitimate reasons or was known ahead of time as the “patsy” for both murders. My guess is that is why the WC never saw fit to investigate this issue as it would have pointed to the latter and NOT the former as they claimed.

Due to this lack of investigation to make sure they reached the CORRECT conclusion among the differing accounts of what actually occurred on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, in regards to the search for LHO the WC SUNK itself. Without this investigation we are left wondering again if the claimed version of events is correct instead of KNOWING it is.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 03:46:01 AM by Rob Caprio »

JFK Assassination Forum

Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #322
« on: August 11, 2018, 03:31:08 AM »