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Author Topic: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?  (Read 4487 times)

Offline Dillon Rankine

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2018, 02:13:35 PM »
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I don't know how to make this photo appear larger on this site.  However when you see it full size, it's very clear that this is a rifle and not an arm as some have conjectured.  On the 2d floor of the DalTex, the suspect has a white baseball cap and is wearing glasses.

I’ve seen this image enhanced before and it’s quite clear that it’s arm, or something with similar proportions and is much too large to be rifle. (Compare the size with the man on the fire escape).

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2018, 02:13:35 PM »


Offline Dillon Rankine

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2018, 02:32:44 PM »
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1.  Dozens of witnesses say the last two sounds were BANG-BANG

True, but this wasn’t the only shot pattern. There seemed to be a location effect on the impression of shot sequence, though I think it was quite weak. Those versed in firearms (Willis, Yarborough, etc) all reported 3 well spaced shots.

Psychophysical and neurocomputational processes better explain the witness impressions in this realm. 

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2.  In the Zapruder film, we can see Gov Connally bent over very rapidly a split second AFTER JFK was shot in the head

All scientific analyses of the film show clear evidence of JBC being struck at Z224.

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3.  Gov. Connally said in many interviews that the blow to his back was enough force to bend him over.  Connally is not BENT over at any time in the Zapruder film until a split second after JFK is shot in the head.

Connally exhibits rapid postural changes beginning Z224 which begin with him being driven downwards and turning. He could have perceived himself to have been bent over, either that or this is what he meant by this choice of words (normal humans rarely use exact definitions of the phrases they employ, but rather attach whichever linguistics they feel best describes their phenomenology), or his memory was faulty due it being a trumatic event (amygdala, the brains ‘fear centre’ is overactive in these times and disrupts activity in the hippocampus, where memories are made, and stress hormones actually kill neurons there).

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4,  No blood can be seen on Connally's shirt or right sleeve even seconds after the US gov't says he was shot in the back.  WHY is there NO blood anywhere on the front of Connally's white shirt?  The answer is easy, Connally was NOT shot in the back until a split second AFTER JFK was shot in the head.

It’s a grainy, poor quality film. You can barely recognise faces, how’d you expect to see blood on mostly black clothing? We don’t see any blood on JFK at Z225 or Jackie after Z313 yet we know they weee drenched.   

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5  When you look at frame 267, as mentioned NO BLOOD can be seen on Connally's white shirt.  Look at any Zapruder frame before JFK is shot in the head and NO blood will be found on Connally's shirt.  HOW THAT POSSIBLE?  Nellie said John had a hole in his chest about the size of a baseball.  The main point for #5 is, HOW IN THE WORLD did John Connally turn around like he is seen in #267 and he (allegedly) has a serious chest exit wound?

The fact there’s no blood visible to you on this horrible looking film isn’t evidence of anything. Also we’ve had people shot in the spine and walk to hospital. Being shot in the back and slowly turning around is not an impressive feat.

Offline Bill Charleston

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2018, 10:21:19 PM »
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I don't know how to make this photo appear larger on this site.  However when you see it full size, it's very clear that this is a rifle and not an arm as some have conjectured.  On the 2d floor of the DalTex, the suspect has a white baseball cap and is wearing glasses.

I made it larger but I don't see a rifle, white baseball cap and glasses.


Online Paul Ernst

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2018, 11:09:33 PM »

Offline Bill Charleston

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 12:50:06 AM »
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JFK is thrown forward in less than a 1/2 second from a shot to the back. An impossibility if the Carcano is

the only weapon used in the assassination





--------------------

The HSCA gave considerable weight to the conclusion another gunman fired from the grassy knoll.

House Select Committee on Assassinations Final Report
Current Section: (d) Witness testimony on the shots


"An analysis by the committee of the statements of witnesses in Dealy Plaza on November 22, 1963, moreover, showed that about 44 percent were not able to form an opinion about the origin of the shots, attesting to the ambiguity showed in the August 1978 experiment. Seventy percent of the witnesses in 1963 who had an opinion as to the origin said it was either the book depository or the grassy knoll. Those witnesses who thought the shots originated from the grassy knoll represented 30 percent of those who chose between the knoll and book depository and 21 percent of those who made a decision as to origin. Since most of the shots fired on November 22, 1963 (three out of four, the committee determined) came from the book depository, the fact that so many witnesses thought they heard shots from
the knoll lent additional weight to a conclusion that a shot came from there."


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When you look at JFK BEFORE he is hidden behind the Stemmon's sign, he has his right hand raised almost to the top of his head.  When he emerges from behind the sign he has quickly lowered his right hand towards his throat and quickly raised his left hand up from his lap towards his throat.



During that same interval, Connally is looking to his right at frame 193, frame 200 and frame 224.  Connally does NOT appear to make any reaction to a shot until (starting at) frame 224.



SUMMARY:

1.  Kennedy reacts to a shot (probably to his neck) between frames 200 and frame 224.  Because he has to move his arms so far, it had to have been several tenths of a second before frame 224.  It looks like it was closer to at least a second for him to react like he did.

2.  Connally makes no reaction (especially NOT a serious wound) until AFTER he has emerged from behind the sign

3. Because JFK moves both his hands towards his throat, it is reasonable to assume that JFK's first wound was to his throat.

4,  A reasonable conclusion based on the reactions that can be seen in the Zapruder film is that

     a.  First JFK was wounded in the neck

     b.  The next shot (about a second after the first that hit JFK) wounded Connally for the first time.

5. If thwo shots really are closer together than about 3 seconds, it suggests that there were multiple shooters and that means a conspiracy killed JFK.

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 12:50:06 AM »


Offline Dillon Rankine

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2018, 01:39:34 AM »
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When you look at JFK BEFORE he is hidden behind the Stemmon's sign, he has his right hand raised almost to the top of his head.  When he emerges from behind the sign he has quickly lowered his right hand towards his throat and quickly raised his left hand up from his lap towards his throat.



During that same interval, Connally is looking to his right at frame 193, frame 200 and frame 224.  Connally does NOT appear to make any reaction to a shot until (starting at) frame 224.



SUMMARY:

1.  Kennedy reacts to a shot (probably to his neck) between frames 200 and frame 224.  Because he has to move his arms so far, it had to have been several tenths of a second before frame 224.  It looks like it was closer to at least a second for him to react like he did.

2.  Connally makes no reaction (especially NOT a serious wound) until AFTER he has emerged from behind the sign

3. Because JFK moves both his hands towards his throat, it is reasonable to assume that JFK's first wound was to his throat.

4,  A reasonable conclusion based on the reactions that can be seen in the Zapruder film is that

     a.  First JFK was wounded in the neck

     b.  The next shot (about a second after the first that hit JFK) wounded Connally for the first time.

5. If thwo shots really are closer together than about 3 seconds, it suggests that there were multiple shooters and that means a conspiracy killed JFK.

You make a good point about Kennedy’s reaction relative to Connally’s. When he emerges from behind the sign at Z225 he’s markedly distressed and his arms shoot up toward. However it’s physiologically impossible (or at least unlikely) for him to have been voluntarily reaching for his throat after a gunshot wound to his neck due to disruption of the spinal cord. More likely, a perforating shot from the rear struck the two men at Z224ish, and the sudden impact to the trapezius chased his already ascending arms to rocket higher.

Various analyses have found evidence of JFK reacting to something (supposed by the HSCA To be a gunshot) at around Z190. Several witnesses reported a bullet strike the pavement near the limo and seeing JFK flinch afterwards. This aligns with a rugged tear in the rear of the scalp (usually thought to be the entry point of the fatal bullet) and a corresponding circular metallic fragment embedded on the exterior of the skull.

TL;DR.- What I suppose is that a missed shot fired near Z180 hit the curb and sent shrapnel flying to hit JFK, causing him to exclaim (per Kellerman) “My God, I’m Hit!” Then at Z224 both men were struck.           

Offline Steve Taylor

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2018, 11:19:20 AM »
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I made it larger but I don't see a rifle, white baseball cap and glasses.



  Thank you Bill for your enlargement, but I still respectfully disagree with your analysis.  I believe this man pictured at Z255 fired the first shot(s) and is withdrawing from the window.  He is standing, looking down at the rifle as he pulls it back in.  His left hand is visible blocking a complete view of the buttstock.  It looks like he is wearing a black glove.  The glasses are partially visible just below the brim of his cap and are reflecting the Sun. I believe the key to this being a rifle is the sharp curve on the object (to our left).  The rifle is laying on its side.  You see this outline on many types of rifle. I don't believe this could be an arm unless it has severe multiple fractures.  I have another photo of this man standing on the street, just below this window after the assassination if you are interested in me publishing it.
  But first, would you do me a favor and  increase the size of a picture that shows what Dillon was referring to?  This one includes the man on the firescape above my shooter.  I believe it to be the spotter, who is speaking into a radio in his left hand.  I'd appreciate it, or even if you could tell me how you enlarged it, that would be great.  Thanks alot.

 

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2018, 07:00:24 PM »
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All scientific analyses of the film show clear evidence of JBC being struck at Z224.

 BS:

These "scientific" analyses amount to "looks like he's reacting to a bullet strike".  Other people make the exact same arguments about different frames.

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2018, 07:00:24 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2018, 09:03:43 PM »
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When you look at JFK BEFORE he is hidden behind the Stemmon's sign, he has his right hand raised almost to the top of his head.  When he emerges from behind the sign he has quickly lowered his right hand towards his throat and quickly raised his left hand up from his lap towards his throat.




Seems to me he's just waving with his right hand as he goes behind the sign. He got that hand up by about Z180, about one-and-a-half second before Z207, the last frame before a splice.

   

Quote

During that same interval, Connally is looking to his right at frame 193, frame 200 and frame 224.  Connally does NOT appear to make any reaction to a shot until (starting at) frame 224.



SUMMARY:

1.  Kennedy reacts to a shot (probably to his neck) between frames 200 and frame 224.  Because he has to move his arms so far, it had to have been several tenths of a second before frame 224.  It looks like it was closer to at least a second for him to react like he did.

2.  Connally makes no reaction (especially NOT a serious wound) until AFTER he has emerged from behind the sign

3. Because JFK moves both his hands towards his throat, it is reasonable to assume that JFK's first wound was to his throat.

4,  A reasonable conclusion based on the reactions that can be seen in the Zapruder film is that

     a.  First JFK was wounded in the neck

     b.  The next shot (about a second after the first that hit JFK) wounded Connally for the first time.

5. If thwo shots really are closer together than about 3 seconds, it suggests that there were multiple shooters and that means a conspiracy killed JFK.

I see no reason to believe Kennedy was reacting to a shot in Z225. To me, he first reacts to being shot at Z226. In Z225, he seems to me to be still lowering his hand towards the car rail, maybe to unite it at the car rail with the left hand that was being raised. Similar to how he had his hands near the car rail in the Z160s.


Offline John Mytton

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2018, 09:30:05 PM »
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BS:

These "scientific" analyses amount to "looks like he's reacting to a bullet strike".  Other people make the exact same arguments about different frames.



At the same time;
Kennedy violently reacts.
Connally violently reacts.
Connally's jacket violently reacts.

Both men's wounds line up and can be traced back to the floor with Oswald's rifle was, geez what are the chances?



JohnM

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Re: What’s the best evidence of a second shooter?
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2018, 09:30:05 PM »