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Author Topic: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?  (Read 1790 times)

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2018, 04:35:55 AM »
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It's just so odd that the clipboard was left on the 6th floor.
 If LHO had not found the Scott Foresman books he needed up there and there were also Scott Foresman books on the 1st floor ...
Why abandon the clipboard on the 6th just a few feet from the rifle was later found, just to go to lunch?
Givens said to Oswald, "Boy are you going downstairs? ... It's near lunch time." Oswald said, "No, sir....."
Before noon!
What was Oswald doing for that half hour?
Hiding his clipboard?
So ironic, the swap of a tool for a book store employee for that of an assassin found just feet apart.

This is from my "Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions" series and pertains to the clipboard.

****************************************

Another strange piece of evidence that was used to show LHO was guilty was the clipboard he supposedly used on the day of the assassination. Why is it evidence you may ask against LHO’s guilt? Well because it was his clipboard (based on the orders and initials on them) and it was found on the sixth floor of the TSBD, thus, the WC used it to show LHO had been up there to shoot JFK. This is of course is nonsense since LHO’s job required him to go to the sixth floor, and does NOT mean he only went there to shoot JFK and set the clipboard down when doing so as alluded to by the WC.

We have some testimony on the discovery of this clipboard by the man that found it to look at. Here is Frankie Kaiser’s WC testimony regarding the clipboard.


Mr. BALL. Now, one day you found a clipboard, didn't you?

Mr. KAISER. Yes; it was about a week later. I went upstairs, you see, the corner I found it in--we keep a certain teacher's edition of Catholic handbooks.

Mr. BALL. On what floor?

Mr. KAISER. On the sixth floor.

Mr. BALL. Now, what part of the sixth floor is this Catholic edition located?

Mr. KAISER. It was in that corner.

Mr. BALL. And in what corner is that?

Mr. KAISER. Let's see---

Mr. BALL. Without saying north or south, was it near the elevator? Or the stairway?

Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was right in front of the elevator.

Mr. BALL. Where was it with reference to the stairway?

Mr. KAISER.. It was right next to the stairway--right in the corner.

Aha! It had to be LHO that left it there when he was preparing to shoot JFK, right? NOT so fast. Let’s read on for more details.

Mr. BALL. Now, what day did you find it, do you remember?

Mr. KAISER. I couldn't tell you. It was about a week or a week and a half, somewhere in there.

Mr. BALL. Now, this statement you gave to the Federal Bureau of Investigation on the 2d of December 1963, says you talked to an agent named Pinkston; do you remember that?

Mr. KAISER. Well, I got my boss and the FBI to go upstairs and I showed it to them.

This is interesting as Kaiser says a number of times that he did NOT touch the clipboard and instead he went to get his boss (Shelley) instead.

Mr BALL. When you saw the clipboard---

Mr. KAISER. I went downstairs and got my boss.

Mr. BALL. What is his name?

Mr. KAISER. William H. Shelley.

Mr. BALL. And then what happened?

Mr. KAISER. This FBI was standing there with me--he was standing there then and I told him I had a clipboard laying up there with the orders.

The FBI agent was named Nat Pinkston and he too was called by the WC. Here is what he said he was doing when Kaiser came down the stairs and mentioned the clipboard.

Mr. BALL. Did you see a fellow by the name of Frankie Kaiser?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. And Roy Truly?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. What did they tell you when you came down there?

Mr. PINKSTON. To the best of my recollection I was there waiting to see Mr. Truly. He was somewhere else in the building, and I was waiting. for him on the occasion in question. Frankie Kaiser came down the stairs and said that he had found something on the sixth floor. I didn't--I then accompanied him back to the sixth floor where he pointed out on the floor near the entrance to the stair well, a clipboard with some orders on it, and--pardon me a second, do you want me to testify to what Kaiser told me, which is hearsay?

Mr. BALL. That is all right, but Kaiser told you that when you were downstairs, that something---didn't he? When he was--did Kaiser come downstairs?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes: Kaiser came downstairs and took me back upstairs with him and pointed out the clipboard which he had left on the floor.

There are a couple of things of note here. First off, notice how WC counsel Ball tells him it is alright to pass on HEARSAY! Secondly, notice how he says Kaiser left the clipboard on the floor where he saw it. This is important to remember. He will confirm this here.

Mr. BALL. Did he say he had left it there?

Mr. PINKSTON. He had seen it there and did not bother it.

Mr. BALL. I see.

Mr. PINKSTON. He did not put it there..

Mr. BALL. I see. Kaiser told you and you went upstairs and Kaiser pointed out the clipboard?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. First, the location of the clipboard.

Mr. PINKSTON. The clipboard was generally in the northwest corner of the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. It was on the floor behind the books, against the wall of the stair well.

Mr. BALL. There were some book cartons in front of it, were there?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes.

So it was found on the FLOOR and it was not bothered by Kaiser at all. Remember this as this is important to the official claim. We see by this comment (which is hearsay and Ball says this is alright again) they knew it was LHO’s because Kaiser had made it for him when he started at the TSBD.

Mr. BALL. Now, did Frankie Kaiser say something? That is hearsay, but I would like to hear what it was.

Mr. PINKSTON. He told me this clipboard was the one that he had made, and had given to Oswald when Oswald went to work at the School Book Depository.

Mr. BALL. Did you examine the clipboard?

Mr. PINKSTON. I did, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did it have anybody's name on it?

Mr. PINKSTON. It had quite a bit of scribbling on it, and I believe well, I am not in a position to say right now exactly what it had on it other than some orders.

Mr. BALL. It did have some orders on it?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. And did you examine the orders?

Mr. PINKSTON. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. Can you tell me the date of the orders and the general description of the orders?

Mr. PINKSTON. Three orders on this clipboard. Each order was dated November 22d…Each of these orders, as I say, were dated November 22, 1963.

So there we have it. Of course he would say he had NO idea what happened to the clipboard after he gave it to the FBI office (the orders were given to Mr. Truly to fill).

Mr. BALL. What did you do with the clipboard?

Mr. PINKSTON. I returned the clipboard to my office and made an exhibit as I recall.

Mr. BALL. Is it still an exhibit? It is an FBI exhibit?

Mr. PINKSTON. I believe so.

Mr. BALL. In the possession of the FBI?

Mr. PINKSTON. I haven't seen it since then.

Only in this case does evidence get turned over to people we have NO names for! This was it for Pinkston’s testimony so let’s head back to Kaiser’s.  Here is how he said he found the clipboard and how it was laying when he saw it.

Mr. BALL. How did you happen to find the clipboard?

Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic edition--teacher's edition.

Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?

Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and I just noticed it laying over there.

Mr. BALL. Laying. on the floor?

Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.

Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?

Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.

Mr. BALL. How close was it to the wall?

Mr. KAISER. It was about---oh--I would say, just guessing, about 5 or 6 inches, something like that.

Mr. BALL. From the wall and on the floor?

Mr. KAISER. Laying on the floor.

Mr. BALL. And were there any boxes between the wall and the clipboard?

Mr. KAISER. No, not between the wall and the clipboard--there wasn't.

Based on this description by Kaiser how in the world is the official photograph depicting the clipboard accurate in the least? Here it is.

CE 506:
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NOTHING in this picture matches the way Kaiser said it was when he saw it! Kaiser says over and over again that he did NOT touch the clipboard, thus, he did NOT move it! Read his testimony to see this being said again and again like this.

Mr. KAISER. Did I examine those orders? No, sir.

Mr. BALL. You didn't examine the orders?

Mr. KAISER. No, sir; I just went down and got my boss and then they took it down.

Mr. BALL. Did you make any notes of the orders?

Mr. KAISER. I didn't, sir.

Mr. BALL. Of either the names on the orders or the date of the orders?

Mr. KAISER. No, sir; now, my boss may have.

Mr. BALL. I think that's all. Did you fill the orders, then, yourself?

Mr. KAISER. No, sir; not them, I didn't.

Mr. BALL. You turned these over to your boss?

Mr. KAISER. You see, I went down and got them and they went down and got them and they handled them.

Why was Ball trying so hard to get him to say he touched the clipboard when he kept saying he did NOT? Was it because he knew the way the clipboard is shown in CE 506 does NOT match the way Kaiser found it? The caption in CE 506 clearly says, “Position of clip board when discovered” too. Who discovered it this way? Certainly NOT Frankie Kaiser based on his testimony. Kaiser would say so when he was called back too! They refer to “Kaiser Exhibit A” which is the same picture as CE 506 and when shown this Kaiser said this.

Mr. BALL. Does this show the place where the clipboard was found, or do you know?

Mr. KAISER. It wasn't found there--it was found on the floor.

Mr. BALL. Where on the floor?

Mr. KAISER. Behind these cartons--between there and the wall.

Mr. BALL. Which cartons--it was found behind--are the cartons in the picture--it wasn't found where it is circled there?

Mr. KAISER. It wasn't found where it circled--there--it was found on the floor.

He clearly tells them CE 506 is wrong, but they published it with the caption nonetheless. What is interesting in Kaiser Exhibit A is that Kaiser put an “X” on the carton he said the clipboard was behind (and on the floor) of. Here is for your review.

Kaiser Exhibit A:
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This photograph clearly shows the clipboard was NOT where the WC claimed it was, and yet, they continued to say it was where the witness said it was not.


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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2018, 04:35:55 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #61 on: August 11, 2018, 11:03:30 AM »
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"Notice what was missing from his statement to the FBI? "
Trying to use "missing evidence" as evidence. Not everything is all inclusive.

"How was Givens able to determine that Lee was coming from the SE corner if Givens was in the NW corner where the elevators were?"
A  less literal interpretation could easily include "from the direction of...."

Splitting hairs over (seemingly) contradictory statements may discredit a witness but corroborating evidence separates the wheat from the chaff.
Fact is the location of the clipboard along with Oswald's work ethic at the TSBD is strong circumstantial evidence he remained on the 6th floor until noon at least.
Wandering around unable to find Scott Foresmans or...?
All the employees are known to have filled Scott Foresman book orders and all he needed to do was ask someone.
But instead he chose to remain on the floor by himself when others went down....He "had something to do" before lunch.
Searching for Scott Foresmans?
....
This will be my last post to the forum...stage 4 cancer and not a lot of time left. Must prepare for my wife to go on alone.
It's been great Thx so much...
Goodbye....I enjoyed it.
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Hi Jim, it just seems like yesterday that I tried to convince you to try your debating skills at a Forum instead of Youtube and since then all your contributions in a variety of formats along with your embracing of social media, you have exceeded all my initial expectations.

Keep strong and thanks for the memories.

JohnM

Online Richard Smith

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #62 on: August 11, 2018, 03:53:26 PM »
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Richard,

the clip board was inconsequential and bears no weight on the guilt or otherwise of Lee.

It had three orders that were not filled that day.

Mr. PINKSTON. Three orders on this clipboard. Each order was dated November 22d. The first was an order from Mrs. Hazel Carroll of the Reading Clinic, SMU, for one Parliamentary Procedure at $1.40. Was published by Scott, Foresman & Co. And this invoice bore No. 2454. The second one was an order from Dallas Independent School District from Mr. M. J. Morton, purchasing agent, at the School Administration Building, 3700 Ross Avenue, Dallas, Tex., for 10 ERS, Basic Reading Skills, for high schools, revised, at $1.12, or total of $11.20. Published by Scott, Foresman & Co. The Invoice was No. 6057. The third order was an order to be sent to Mr. M. K. Baker, Junior High School, Reynosa, New Mex., for one TE Basic Reading Skills. J. H. S. use. No charge. Sent at the request of Miss Mary Williams. Publisher; Scott, Foresman & Co., invoice 8291. Each of these orders, as I say, were dated November 22, 1963.

Mr. TRULY. I am referring to Frankie Kaiser who brought the clipboard with the orders downstairs and told Bill Shelley that he had found Oswald's clipboard with some orders on it.

Mr. BELIN. Had those orders ever been filled or not?

Mr. TRULY. No, sir. You see, when they fill the orders, they take them off the clipboard. They may have 25 on the clipboard, and after a while they will have 15 or 10 or something.

I don't think Lee would of just had three orders from 8 am. These were the ones that were remaining on the clip board at the time.

Lee was permitted to be on the 6th floor to obtain stock.

So it's just more bad luck for old Lee that his clipboard ended up on the very floor from which the shots were fired?  So many bad breaks for him like touching the SN boxes and bag.  Like I have said before, the clipboard would not be very compelling evidence if it were the only evidence against Oswald.  It has to be take in context though with all the other evidence.  In that context, it is another brick in the wall of his guilt.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #63 on: August 11, 2018, 04:14:18 PM »
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So it's just more bad luck for old Lee that his clipboard ended up on the very floor from which the shots were fired?  So many bad breaks for him like touching the SN boxes and bag.  Like I have said before, the clipboard would not be very compelling evidence if it were the only evidence against Oswald.  It has to be take in context though with all the other evidence.  In that context, it is another brick in the wall of his guilt.

So how did you PROVE that that clipboard was being used by Lee Oswald?..... Did it have his finger prints on it?  Why wasn't it noticed and taken as evidence on the afternoon of 11/22/63 when there was an intensive search of that sixth floor?....Could it be that the clipboard wasn't there that afternoon?

Online Richard Smith

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #64 on: August 12, 2018, 03:22:28 PM »
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So how did you PROVE that that clipboard was being used by Lee Oswald?..... Did it have his finger prints on it?  Why wasn't it noticed and taken as evidence on the afternoon of 11/22/63 when there was an intensive search of that sixth floor?....Could it be that the clipboard wasn't there that afternoon?

It sounds a whole lot like you alleging the clipboard was planted.  Dishonest John I. apparently believes it is a "strawman" claim to suggest anyone here has argued that the clipboard was planted.  Even though there are numerous examples in this thread. It's pretty easy to understand why the police would not have noticed it or thought it might have any connection to the case.  They were not looking for a clipboard or had any particular reason, if they did see it, to associate it with Oswald.  The floor was full of boxes and junk. Easy to overlook the clipboard.  What would be the purpose of planting a clipboard after Oswald was dead and most were satisfied of his guilt?  And if they had done so, wouldn't they have made it clearer that it was linked to Oswald if that were the purpose?  The ambiguity and delay that you suggest actually cut against the clipboard being planted as part of any effort to frame Oswald.  If they had intended to do that, the clipboard would have been "found" on 11.22 and more clearly associated with Oswald (e.g. put his name or initials on the paperwork).

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #64 on: August 12, 2018, 03:22:28 PM »


Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #65 on: August 12, 2018, 04:42:40 PM »
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So it's just more bad luck for old Lee that his clipboard ended up on the very floor from which the shots were fired?  So many bad breaks for him like touching the SN boxes and bag.  Like I have said before, the clipboard would not be very compelling evidence if it were the only evidence against Oswald.  It has to be take in context though with all the other evidence.  In that context, it is another brick in the wall of his guilt.

Well, if Oswald DID go downstairs to have lunch wouldn't he leave his clipboard on the last floor he was at before doing so? I.e., the sixth floor. I doubt that the order fillers would bring their clipboard down to the domino room to have lunch. They'd leave it upstairs where they were last filling orders or at work.

I don't see the clipboard as evidence of anything even if we include it in a longer chain of evidence. Okay, it shows he was on the sixth floor; but we knew that already from other evidence. If it showed, as apparently it did, he did little work that morning there are a number of innocent explanations for his failure to fill orders.

There's lots of evidence of Oswald's guilt. We don't need to "force" any into the chain.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #66 on: August 12, 2018, 05:22:21 PM »
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It sounds a whole lot like you alleging the clipboard was planted.  Dishonest John I. apparently believes it is a "strawman" claim to suggest anyone here has argued that the clipboard was planted.  Even though there are numerous examples in this thread. It's pretty easy to understand why the police would not have noticed it or thought it might have any connection to the case.  They were not looking for a clipboard or had any particular reason, if they did see it, to associate it with Oswald.  The floor was full of boxes and junk. Easy to overlook the clipboard.  What would be the purpose of planting a clipboard after Oswald was dead and most were satisfied of his guilt?  And if they had done so, wouldn't they have made it clearer that it was linked to Oswald if that were the purpose?  The ambiguity and delay that you suggest actually cut against the clipboard being planted as part of any effort to frame Oswald.  If they had intended to do that, the clipboard would have been "found" on 11.22 and more clearly associated with Oswald (e.g. put his name or initials on the paperwork).


 "What would be the purpose of planting a clipboard after Oswald was dead and most were satisfied of his guilt?"

Ah...therein lies the problem.....   Most folks were NOT satisfied with the confusing story that was being spun out of Washington DC.  There were serious questions being raised by the tale that was being dumped on the public....  Any little tidbit that the conspirators could pile on the pile of rubbish was used to "convince the public" ( J.E. Hoover's words) that the arch villain Lee Harrrrrvey Ossssswald was the murderer.

Online Richard Smith

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2018, 12:02:01 AM »
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Well, if Oswald DID go downstairs to have lunch wouldn't he leave his clipboard on the last floor he was at before doing so? I.e., the sixth floor. I doubt that the order fillers would bring their clipboard down to the domino room to have lunch. They'd leave it upstairs where they were last filling orders or at work.

I don't see the clipboard as evidence of anything even if we include it in a longer chain of evidence. Okay, it shows he was on the sixth floor; but we knew that already from other evidence. If it showed, as apparently it did, he did little work that morning there are a number of innocent explanations for his failure to fill orders.

There's lots of evidence of Oswald's guilt. We don't need to "force" any into the chain.

Oswald was seen on the floor with the clipboard not long before the assassination.  I agree if the ONLY evidence we had against him was the clipboard being found there then it is not very probative.  But taken within the context of all the known facts and evidence a logical inference can be drawn that he was carrying around the clipboard on the 6th floor to give the appearance of working if he encountered anyone.  And the last thing he does is put the clipboard down before retrieving the rifle.  So the clipboard does provide some evidence of his presence on the 6th floor and perhaps where he hid the rifle.  Throw it out though and the evidence of his guilt is still overwhelming.  It is certainly not necessary to rely on the clipboard to prove his guilt which also cuts against the kooky claim that is planted after his death to frame him for this crime.

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #67 on: August 13, 2018, 12:02:01 AM »


Offline Bill Brown

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #68 on: August 13, 2018, 08:19:34 AM »
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The floor laying crew was on the 6th floor as well as some of the order fillers. BRW was on the 6th floor until 12.25 pm.

Not according to Bonnie Ray Williams' own words.

Online Steve Howsley

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2018, 10:53:22 AM »
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"Notice what was missing from his statement to the FBI? "
Trying to use "missing evidence" as evidence. Not everything is all inclusive.

"How was Givens able to determine that Lee was coming from the SE corner if Givens was in the NW corner where the elevators were?"
A  less literal interpretation could easily include "from the direction of...."

Splitting hairs over (seemingly) contradictory statements may discredit a witness but corroborating evidence separates the wheat from the chaff.
Fact is the location of the clipboard along with Oswald's work ethic at the TSBD is strong circumstantial evidence he remained on the 6th floor until noon at least.
Wandering around unable to find Scott Foresmans or...?
All the employees are known to have filled Scott Foresman book orders and all he needed to do was ask someone.
But instead he chose to remain on the floor by himself when others went down....He "had something to do" before lunch.
Searching for Scott Foresmans?
....
This will be my last post to the forum...stage 4 cancer and not a lot of time left. Must prepare for my wife to go on alone.
It's been great Thx so much...
Goodbye....I enjoyed it.
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Oh James. The voice of reason and common sense. Thanks so much for your contributions. You are a good man. Respect.

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Re: What Was Oswald Doing Friday Morning?
« Reply #69 on: August 13, 2018, 10:53:22 AM »