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Author Topic: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?  (Read 9204 times)

Online John Mytton

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2018, 01:59:07 AM »
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"When Oswald got to Frazier's house Oswald walked straight past the back door, opened Frazier's car, put his package in and then went back to the back door to wait for Frazier, why?"

Duh....To prevent the rain from dissolving the flimsy brown paper sack !

And there is some indication that Lee may have got into the car and then got back out to go to see if Wes was up and coming out to the car.....




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Duh....To prevent the rain from dissolving the flimsy brown paper sack !

There are two holes with your theory;

1) The back door of the house was undercover and was closer.
2) The back door of the car could have been locked* and Oswald would have needlessly spent more time in the rain.

So under every circumstance the most logical course of action was to wait undercover for Frazier and simply wait for Frazier to open the car for you.


*I have read on the ED Forum that the back door lock of Frazier's car was broken but can't find a cite and anyway Oswald had no way of knowing if the lock was fixed.



JohnM

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2018, 01:59:07 AM »


Online John Mytton

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2018, 02:37:12 AM »
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A little bit of rain wont be an issue for a small paper bag that Lee could tuck under his armpit and cup it in his palm, right? His jacket would have shielded it. Lee may have suspected that BWF was waiting for him in the carport.

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; it didn't. I just thought maybe, you know, he just left a little bit earlier but when I looked up and saw that the clock was. I knew I was the one who was running a little bit late because, as I say, I was talking, sitting there eating breakfast and talking to the little nieces, it was later than I thought it was.

LMR told us this from her WC testimony.

Mrs. RANDLE. No; because I only opened the door briefly and what made me establish the door on Wesley's car, it is an old car and that door, the window is broken and everything and it is hard to close, so that cinched in my mind which door it was, too. But it was only briefly that I looked.




Mr. BALL. What did he do?
Mrs. RANDLE. He opened the right back door and I just saw that he was laying the package down so I closed the door. I didn't recognize him as he walked across my carport and I at that moment I wondered who was fixing to come to my back door so I opened the door slightly and saw that it--I assumed he was getting in the car but he didn't, so he come back and stood on the driveway.




JohnM

Online John Mytton

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2018, 03:42:12 AM »
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Which is not what she said here:

Mrs. RANDLE. No; because I only opened the door briefly and what made me establish the door on Wesley's car, it is an old car and that door, the window is broken and everything and it is hard to close, so that cinched in my mind which door it was, too. But it was only briefly that I looked.

LMR didn't see Lee open any door - she assumed that he did.

BIG difference to a direct observation JohnM.




Sorry Tony but "I just saw that he was laying the package down" is a direct observation, unless you have a different definition for the word "saw", well???
 
I honestly don't understand why you are fighting this?, even if the wall was solid we know that;
1) Oswald was carrying a package and walked past the back door, then walked back to the front door.
2) Frazier saw a package on the back seat which Oswald admitted was his.



JohnM

Online John Mytton

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2018, 03:57:15 AM »
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LMR was inside her house, took a brief peek and was not standing next to the angled down slats. Do you know if there was another car in the carport at the time?

She of course had no issues at all with what Lee did - why would she? Who else did she think that person was?

Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him arrive with Lee?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you recall on a Thursday night, November 21 that you saw Lee get out of Wesley's car?
Mrs. RANDLE. That is right.

Mr. BALL. Did you talk to Wesley about the fact that he had brought Lee home on this night?
Mrs. RANDLE. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. Did you see Lee?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, I did.
Mr. BALL. Where did you see him?
Mrs. RANDLE. I saw him as he crossed the street and come across my driveway to where Wesley had his car parked by the carport.

Then this:

Mrs. RANDLE. He opened the right back door and I just saw that he was laying the package down so I closed the door. I didn't recognize him as he walked across my carport and I at that moment I wondered who was fixing to come to my back door so I opened the door slightly and saw that it--I assumed he was getting in the car but he didn't, so he come back and stood on the driveway.

Suddenly we have a "unknown" person putting in a "long package" in her brother's car yet never says a word to her brother.

Give me a break.



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LMR was inside her house, took a brief peek and was not standing next to the angled down slats.

Huh? standing right next to the slats???, as the following gif shows, the camera was almost as close as Linnie was to the slats and we can see other objects on the other side of the open slat at almost the same height as the camera and we know that Linnie's pov was way above the right rear door of Frazier's car.







JohnM

Offline Zeon Wasinsky

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 06:25:23 AM »
if could just figure out what was in the paperbag that was only 2 feet long, +/- couple inches.

suggestions:

1. Lunch.. Myttons idea.. probably not  ::)
2. Disassembled MC rifle 35 inch, needing about 5 in more to fold over= 40 inch bag.
3. Communist Cuba Flag rolled up, which Oswald was going to fly out of a window, in protest, similar to Umbrella man using umbrella, and DC man his upraised arm, during shots fired.,, uh.. Oswald chikend out and didnt do it.
4. Dozen donuts in line, like they sell at Walmart, Oswald was going give  them out...nah
5. Camera with tripod, Oswald wanted take photo of presidential limo.
6. Solid wooden curtain rods to replace the cheap flimsy metal rods in Oswalds boardnig room.
7. Oswalds freshly washed socks and underwear, that he had washed and dryed thursday at Paines house..
8. Some bags of sand or salt, that conspirator had paid Oswald to bring into TSBD, and which Oswald suspected might be illegal substance, but the pay was good, and he didnt ask any questions.
9. some type of lamp fixture, base, or adjustable lamp.







« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 06:30:06 AM by Zeon Wasinsky »

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 06:25:23 AM »


Online John Mytton

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2018, 06:50:13 AM »
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The slats are all angled - just exactly what do you think she saw with a brief view from her limited POV?



OMG Tony, Linnie couldn't be more clear, she saw Oswald go to the right rear door of Frazier's car and put a package in, then when Frazier gets in Frazier sees the package on the back seat. 

Mr. BALL. Did you see him go to the car?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. What did he do?
Mrs. RANDLE. He opened the right back door and I just saw that he was laying the package down

Mr. BALL. He put the package in the car.
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir;

Senator COOPER. I mean did you see him throw open the. door?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.


Btw how did Linnie know that Oswald put the package on the back seat which was only later confirmed by Buell.

RANDLE stated that about 7:15 a.m., November 22, 1963, she looked out of a window of her residence and observed LEE HARVEY OSWALD walking up her driveway and saw him put a long brown package, approximately 3 feet by 6 inches, in the back seat area of WESLEY FRAZIER's 1954 black Chevrolet four door automobile.



JohnM

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2018, 12:51:43 PM »
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A little bit of rain wont be an issue for a small paper bag that Lee could tuck under his armpit and cup it in his palm, right? His jacket would have shielded it. Lee may have suspected that BWF was waiting for him in the carport.

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; it didn't. I just thought maybe, you know, he just left a little bit earlier but when I looked up and saw that the clock was. I knew I was the one who was running a little bit late because, as I say, I was talking, sitting there eating breakfast and talking to the little nieces, it was later than I thought it was.

LMR told us this from her WC testimony.

Mrs. RANDLE. No; because I only opened the door briefly and what made me establish the door on Wesley's car, it is an old car and that door, the window is broken and everything and it is hard to close, so that cinched in my mind which door it was, too. But it was only briefly that I looked.


We don't know how hard it was raining when Lee walked from the house of Paine to  Frazier's car......

A little bit of rain wont be an issue for a small paper bag that Lee could tuck under his armpit and cup it in his palm, right? His jacket would have shielded it.

I believe that is exactly why Lee carried the flimsy brown paper sack under his arm...... He didn't want his lunch to fall out of a wet paper sack.


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2018, 03:45:41 PM »
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6. Solid wooden curtain rods to replace the cheap flimsy metal rods in Oswalds boardnig room.
7. Oswalds freshly washed socks and underwear, that he had washed and dryed thursday at Paines house..


18"-20" seems rather short for solid wooden curtain rods. I believe they're meant for longer spans.

Oswald was no longer getting his laundry done at Ruth Paine's. He was doing it himself in Oak Cliff.

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Neither brother nor sister can get their stories straight.

Add to this (LMR):
A stranger, who she recognized the day before as Oswald and was told came to pick up curtain rods, approaches her driveway carrying a long bag. Ring a bell? Apparently not, meaning a stranger carrying a bag gaining access to her brothers car does not prompt her to alert Buell who is right next to her at the kitchen table.


She could have put it better, but what I think she meant by "didn't recognize him" and "I wondered who was fixing to come to my back door" was that Oswald was a semi-stranger to her. That she wouldn't have been so nosey if Oswald had been a personal acquaintance of hers.

Quote

Add to this (BWF):
Buell, giving Oswald a ride home to pick up curtain rods, despite explaining this to his sister has forgotten all about it the next day running late picking up Oswald and has to ask what's in the long bag on the back seat.

Screams fabrication.

Maybe Frazier momentarily doubted it was curtain rods because the bag seemed excessive to contain just a few lightweight sliding metal curtain rods.

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2018, 03:45:41 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2018, 07:59:56 PM »






Note slats...
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 08:09:31 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2018, 08:07:25 PM »
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Close but no cigar.

"I didn't recognize him" is exactly how she put it. So why did she say that to BALL when there is nothing about not recognizing Oswald in neither her AFFIDAVIT nor in the BOOKHAUT report?

Because even if Oswald was a semi-stranger she would have no reason to move to the back door to check on him since she had been told that Oswald picked up curtain rods, hence the long bag; still trying to improve on the tale as she couldn't have seen Oswald by the car unless she moved to the door.

I seriously doubt Frazier would expect a dime store bag to fit a random set of curtain rods, would you?

Note BTW that BALL carefully avoids asking LMR when and to whom she initially volunteers information about the bag...
 

So you're speaking for Frazier. And Randle. Got it.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Oswald put his package straight into Frazier's car, why?
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2018, 08:07:25 PM »