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Author Topic: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba  (Read 8521 times)

Offline Richard Rubio

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Re: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2018, 11:17:23 PM »
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I'm not positive of how Lee got into Russia the Soviet Union but we do know, he attempted suicide in his hotel, desperate measures to get into the USSR.

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Re: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2018, 11:17:23 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2018, 11:38:33 PM »
I'm not positive of how Lee got into Russia the Soviet Union but we do know, he attempted suicide in his hotel, desperate measures to get into the USSR.

Thank you for recalling that parallel ......And you're right.    Lee was not afraid to use desprate measures if he thought it would achieve his goal.

However....I believe the wrist slash was superficial.  He never intended to commit suicide....His Russian escort found him feinting unconsciousness with a bathtub with a lot of red water in it......When that wrist scar was examined at his autopsy it was found to have been a superficial wound....

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2018, 11:45:33 PM »
Thank you for recalling that parallel ......And you're right.    Lee was not afraid to use desprate measures if he thought it would achieve his goal.

However....I believe the wrist slash was superficial.  He never intended to commit suicide....His Russian escort found him feinting unconsciousness with a bathtub with a lot of red water in it......When that wrist scar was examined at his autopsy it was found to have been a superficial wound....

Oswald hacked into his wrist deep enough that the wound required stitches and the Russians were concerned enough to put Oswald in a ward with the other insane people.

Oct. 21 (con):watch my life whirl away. I think to myself, "how easy to die" and a sweet death, (to violins). About 8.00, Rima finds my unconscious (bathtub water a rich red color). She screams (I remember that) and runs for help. Ambulance comes, am taken to hospital where five stitches are put in my wrists. Poor Rima stays by my side as interpreter (my Russian is still very bad) far into the night. I tell her, "go home" (my mood is bad) but she stays, she is "my friend" She has a strong will. Only at this moment I notice she is pretty.

Oct. 22. Hospital. I am in a small room with about 12 others (sick persons), 2 orderlies, and a nurse. The room is very drab as well as the breakfast. Only after prolonged (2 hours) observation of the other patients do I realize I am in the Insanity ward. This realization disquiets me. Later in afternoon, I am visited by Rima. She comes in with two doctors. As interpreter, she must ask me medical question, "Did you know what you were doing?" Answer "yes." "Did you blackout?" "No," etc. I then complain about poor food. The doctors laugh. Apparently this is a good sign. Later they leave, I am alone with Rima (amongst the mentally ill). She encourages me and scolds me. She says she will help me get transferred to another section of Hospital (not for insane) where food is good.


JohnM

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Re: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2018, 11:45:33 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2018, 11:57:01 PM »
Oswald hacked into his wrist deep enough that the wound required stitches and the Russians were concerned enough to put Oswald in a ward with the other insane people.

Oct. 21 (con):watch my life whirl away. I think to myself, "how easy to die" and a sweet death, (to violins). About 8.00, Rima finds my unconscious (bathtub water a rich red color). She screams (I remember that) and runs for help. Ambulance comes, am taken to hospital where five stitches are put in my wrists. Poor Rima stays by my side as interpreter (my Russian is still very bad) far into the night. I tell her, "go home" (my mood is bad) but she stays, she is "my friend" She has a strong will. Only at this moment I notice she is pretty.

Oct. 22. Hospital. I am in a small room with about 12 others (sick persons), 2 orderlies, and a nurse. The room is very drab as well as the breakfast. Only after prolonged (2 hours) observation of the other patients do I realize I am in the Insanity ward. This realization disquiets me. Later in afternoon, I am visited by Rima. She comes in with two doctors. As interpreter, she must ask me medical question, "Did you know what you were doing?" Answer "yes." "Did you blackout?" "No," etc. I then complain about poor food. The doctors laugh. Apparently this is a good sign. Later they leave, I am alone with Rima (amongst the mentally ill). She encourages me and scolds me. She says she will help me get transferred to another section of Hospital (not for insane) where food is good.


JohnM
Oct. 21 (con):watch my life whirl away. I think to myself, "how easy to die" and a sweet death, (to violins). About 8.00, Rima finds my unconscious (bathtub water a rich red color). She screams (I remember that) and runs for help. Ambulance comes, am taken to hospital where five stitches are put in my wrists. Poor Rima stays by my side as interpreter (my Russian is still very bad) far into the night. I tell her, "go home" (my mood is bad) but she stays, she is "my friend" She has a strong will. Only at this moment I notice she is pretty.

Ha...ha...ha...ha.... :D....   So, Lee was unconscious...But he was aware that Rima found him and screamed....

Mr Mytton would you like to buy some nice seashore  property in Arizona?

Lee wrote this in his "Historical Diary" on the ship while traveling back to the US 3 1/2 years after the event.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2018, 12:02:32 AM »
Oct. 21 (con):watch my life whirl away. I think to myself, "how easy to die" and a sweet death, (to violins). About 8.00, Rima finds my unconscious (bathtub water a rich red color). She screams (I remember that) and runs for help. Ambulance comes, am taken to hospital where five stitches are put in my wrists. Poor Rima stays by my side as interpreter (my Russian is still very bad) far into the night. I tell her, "go home" (my mood is bad) but she stays, she is "my friend" She has a strong will. Only at this moment I notice she is pretty.

Ha...ha...ha...ha.... :D....   So, Lee was unconscious...But he was aware that Rima found him and screamed....

Mr Mytton would you like to buy some nice seashore  property in Arizona?

Lee wrote this in his "Historical Diary" on the ship while traveling back to the US 3 1/2 years after the event.
What's the problem? It's a logical progression of events, Oswald wasn't dead he was only unconscious then when Rima screamed, Oswald was awoken.

JohnM
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 02:13:28 AM by John Mytton »

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Re: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2018, 12:02:32 AM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2018, 04:50:55 AM »
Oswald's 'plan to hijack a plane to gain entry into Cuba' is just one of Marina's crazy stories. He never had such a plan. He didn't need to. He could have travelled to Cuba by peaceful means, the only limitation imposed by his financial means. The notion that Lee wanted to to Cuba to train the Cuban army (single-handedly?) is ludicrous. The story falls in the same category as his alleged intent to assassinate Richard Nixon: it never happened.

He could have travelled to Cuba by peaceful means, the only limitation imposed by his financial means.

Are we talking about the same guy who didn't have the money to travel to Russia but did so nevertheless?

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2018, 06:45:48 AM »
He could have travelled to Cuba by peaceful means, the only limitation imposed by his financial means.

Are we talking about the same guy who didn't have the money to travel to Russia but did so nevertheless?

Quote
who didn't have the money to travel to Russia

Cite?

JohnM

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Re: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2018, 06:45:48 AM »


Online Zeon Mason

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Re: Oswald once considered hijacking a plane to Cuba
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2018, 09:58:14 AM »
Chapter 8 ? The Diary That Wasn?t - Part 1

The writing has a continuity from page to page and line to line that is indicative of being written about, or at, the same time. It does not give the impression of being ?random?, as would be expected of a diary extended over a period of time. It appears that this diary has been written within a short period of time and not over any extensive period.

Joseph P. McNally, Fellow, American Academy of Forensic Sciences

It has been pointed out that there are significant problems with each of the sources utilized to reconstruct Oswald?s thoughts and activities while in the Soviet Union.
For many years Oswald?s ?Historic Diary? was the virtually unchallenged primary source of information on this period of his life, purporting, as it does, to be his contemporaneous documentation of events. However, some skeptics pointed to certain entries in the diary which they said reflected information which could only have become known after the supposed time of the entries.
The House Select Committee on Assassinations had a number of documents about which there were various questions; inevitably, Oswald?s diary came to be amongst them. In order to resolve these questions, the Committee first asked the President on the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners for his recommendations on the leading experts in the field of questioned document examination, specifically hand-written documents. The Committee then asked each of the people he recommended for their suggestions as to whom the Committee might retain for these purposes. Three names appeared consistently. After ascertaining that none had had a connection with the FBI or the Kennedy case, the Committee requested that this impartial panel undertake an examination of various documents. The panel members, all of whom belonged to the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners, were Joseph P. McNally, David J. Purtell and Charles C. Scott. The Committee provided the following material extracted from their qualifications:

?McNally received a BS and an MPA in police science from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, University of New York City in 1967 and 1975 respectively. He started in the field of questioned document identification in 1942 with the New York Police laboratory. He has been supervisor of the document identification section of the police laboratory, training officer in the police academy, commanding officer of the police laboratory and handwriting expert in he district attorney?s office on New York County. He retired from the police department with the rank of captain in 1972 and entered private practice. He serves as a consultant to New York?s Human Resources Administration. McNally is a fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, and a member of the International Association for Identification, and the American Society for Testing and Materials. He has lectured at the University of New York City, Rockland College, and the New York Police Academy.?

?Purtell receiver a Ph.B, with a major in mathematics and chemistry, from Northwestern University in 1949. He began his career in questioned document identification in 1942 with the Chicago Police Department, where he served as a document examiner in the scientific crime detection laboratory. He retired in 1974 as chief document examiner and captain of police, and entered private practice in 1973. He is a fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences and served as chairman of the questioned document section and chairman of the program committee. He is past vice president and president of the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners. Purtell has lectured at Northwestern University, the University of Illinois, the University of Indiana and St Joseph?s College, among other schools. He has presented and published numerous scientific papers.?

?Scott received an AA degree from Kansas City Junior College in 1930 and a JD from the University of Missouri School of Law in 1935, whereupon he became a member of the Missouri bar. While attending law school, he founded the University of Missouri at Kansas City Law Review and was its first editor-in-chief. He began his career as a questioned document examiner with the Federal Reserve Bank in 1935 and has been in private practice since 1946. The first edition of his three-volume-book, Photographic Evidence, was published in 1942. Now in its second edition, it has become the standard textbook on the subject. He served on the first board of directors of the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners. He has conducted seminars on scientific document examination for more than 20 State bar associations, written numerous professional articles, and, since 1954, has been an adjunct professor of law at the University of Missouri School of Law.?

The panel followed standard procedures and techniques in its examinations. The writings and signatures were looked at individually and in juxtaposition with each other, taking into consideration the gross characteristics of the writing process, writing skill, slant, speed, proportions of the letters, ratio of small to capital letters; height ratio, lateral spacing, and overall writing pattern. Significant differences were looked for. A stereoscope microscope was used for minute examination and comparison of individual letters and characteristics.
One of the issues addressed to these experts queried, ?Was the ?historic diary? written in one sitting?? As to this, the panel concluded that, ?Because of the poor condition of the historical diary, they are unable to conclude firmly whether it was written at one or more than one sitting. On balance, it appears to have been written at one or a few sittings.?  The problem referred to regarding the condition of the diary can best be understood from the comments of David J. Purtell: ?With respect to timespan of the historical diary, an answer cannot be provided because of the present condition of the paper. The documents had been processed by the silver nitrate method in an attempt to develop latent fingerprints. While a recognized method, the drawback is that it soils the paper: the silver nitrate which remains on the paper causes it to turn black in time. Today, the pages are in very poor condition, and though the message can be read in part, it is a very difficult task. One observation that can be reported is that one sheet of paper is of a different weight (thickness) than the other sheets.?

However, although scientifically dating the age of the writing might have proven helpful, inability to do so did not prevent addressing the truly crucial issue, which might be stated in the question: Was this document an accumulation of random entries each entry having been made on the date indicated contemporaneous with the events being recorded?
As to that very important question, the answer is most unsettling, for it appears to be rather clear that this document, upon which so much reliance has been placed in the reconstructing the defection, is a phony. In other words, Lee Harvey Oswald?s ?diary? was not a diary at all.
As Joseph P. McNally reported, ?A check was made of the historical diary. The 12 pages were written with the same type of writing instrument. The paper used for 11 of the 12 pages is similar; only the last page differs ? it is appreciably thinner. The writing has a continuity from page to page and line to line that is indicative of being written about, or at, the same time. It does not give the impression of being ?random,? as would be expected of a diary extended over a period of time. It appears that this diary has been written within a short period of time and not over any extensive period.?

http://www.jfkbook.org/book/book-2-defector/chapter-8-the-diary-that-wasnt/part-4-was-oswalds-diary-real/



« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 10:01:39 AM by Zeon Mason »