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Author Topic: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?  (Read 1976 times)

Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2018, 11:24:51 PM »
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James,
let me try again in case my question was lost or not clear enough.

In your view from Altgens, you have Lovelady coming down from the landing to meet his obligation for Ike's image, why?
Hughes(and perhaps Towner too) suggests he moved up the steps.


Here you go Barry. 5th step looks about right. Normal light vs radiosity.


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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2018, 11:24:51 PM »


Offline Chris Davidson

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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2018, 03:50:51 PM »
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I've already posted this gif (just removed the latter frame), and added James' animation scaled to 140% of its original size:
The frames I use did not come from Groden's DVD.
They came from the DVD "Death in Dealy Plaza", better quality in my opinion.
Irregardless, they are always scaled.




 
James, added your latest(Frazier at 72.5inches) to the above.
Scaled to 165% and rotated 2 degrees CCW to fit your previous (third frame in sequence)version.


Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2018, 07:49:15 PM »
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James, added your latest(Frazier at 72.5inches) to the above.
Scaled to 165% and rotated 2 degrees CCW to fit your previous (third frame in sequence)version.


That's appreciated Chris. Actually, I added 2 to the 73 inches for a total of 75 I used previously. I don't know if we have a hard number for his height.  I can't tell in your graphic if  he is hitting the top of his head in the real frame it's pretty dark there.

One thing I wanted to mention to you about the DiDP Wiegman frames. I mentioned that they were cropped and afterward I overlaid it on the Groden frame and the DiDP frames are about 84% by area. Not so bad by itself, but more disturbing is the aspect ratio of those frames are about 4% squashed in the vertical dimension. 4% on a 6' figure would decrease about 3 to the apparent height.  I had to increase the vertical by 4% to match the Groden frame. If not adjusted first then after the frame is rotated that wrong aspect ratio is present at different amounts in all directions. And if the overlay frames are also rotated differently it could confusing. It could be that may not affect how you are scaling those images, but it might be something to thing about. :)

Offline Chris Davidson

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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2018, 10:05:14 PM »
If I was 4 percent off in the vertical, because I used 2 common people for scaling between both frames, I can live with that.
I believe a 4 percent vertical stretch would have a negligible effect on the smaller background figures.

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2018, 10:41:47 PM »
James, fifth step for Hughes also, I got it, tyvm.
Your animation suggests that Lovelady came down two steps, from the landing to the 5th step but the difference between the real Lovelady and your model on the 6th step does not appear to be near the 7" height of a riser.  It's looks to be about 3", so do you think that the movement of Wiegman's camera could turn a drop of 14"(2 steps) into 7"?

Chris,
there's some differences of opinion here on the timing of Altgens V Wiegman.
Is there anything you can add that might put us all on the same page?

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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2018, 10:41:47 PM »


Offline Chris Davidson

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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2018, 12:10:25 AM »
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Chris,
there's some differences of opinion here on the timing of Altgens V Wiegman.
Is there anything you can add that might put us all on the same page?
If interested, start with third post down:
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Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2018, 03:12:17 AM »
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James, fifth step for Hughes also, I got it, tyvm.
Your animation suggests that Lovelady came down two steps, from the landing to the 5th step but the difference between the real Lovelady and your model on the 6th step does not appear to be near the 7" height of a riser.  It's looks to be about 3", so do you think that the movement of Wiegman's camera could turn a drop of 14"(2 steps) into 7"?

Barry, I'm too whipped tonight to think about that. Please review my latest comparison animations and we can take questions up tomorrow.

Summary W1/W2
                Alt6/Bird's-eye
A1 Lovelady Landing-standing = W1
A2 Lovelady Landing-leaning 35deg Altgens positioned no Wiegman equivalent
B1 Lovelady 1 step down #6 Altgens positioned no Wiegman equivalent
B2 Lovelady 2 steps down #5 = W2

Each animation
Altgens6 is not synced to any Wiegman doorway frames.
Lovelady is on the landing in W1
Lovelady is on the 2nd step down #6


Chris,
there's some differences of opinion here on the timing of Altgens V Wiegman.
Is there anything you can add that might put us all on the same page?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 03:23:47 AM by James Hackerott »

Offline Barry Pollard

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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2018, 07:54:58 PM »
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... I can agree with you and Alan that Lovelady does appear to be on step 5 in the second pass of Wiegman's view of the doorway. That does not change my opinion of him being on the landing in W1 and step 6 for Altgens6.
...

James,
at the start of this thread it seems we all agreed that Lovelady appears to have only dropped down one step. Now since you've changed your mind on what step he is on in W2, as you wrote above, then it had to change something else.  Well it seems you quite easilly went from "one step" to two steps, only the height of one step  was cut in half from 7" to around 3.5" but with no explaination or reasoning.

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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2018, 07:54:58 PM »


Online Brian Doyle

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Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2018, 07:37:05 PM »

Lovelady was standing on the landing in Altgens because his left hand is grabbing the center rail and his body is behind the top end of that same railing...You have to be on the landing to be behind the top end of the center rail...A simple naked eye comparison to the others on the landing shows Prayer Man is also on the landing and is therefore too short to be Oswald... 

Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2018, 10:38:29 PM »
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James,
at the start of this thread it seems we all agreed that Lovelady appears to have only dropped down one step. Now since you've changed your mind on what step he is on in W2, as you wrote above, then it had to change something else.  Well it seems you quite easilly went from "one step" to two steps, only the height of one step  was cut in half from 7" to around 3.5" but with no explaination or reasoning.
Barry,
I apologize for the delay with this response as there was a lot to review. The key to this mystery is that I initially worked under the two step paradigm which put Lovelady either on the landing and then step 6, or on step 6 and then step 5. The W1 rendering put Lovelady squarely on the landing. Thus, per the paradigm, defaulting him down to step 6.

Then after your input about a two step drop I agreed to test that hypothesis and found, indeed, Lovelady stepping from the landing to step 5 by W2 very probable and posted those results in reply #16 this thread. So, I had not via simulated measurement, dropped him 7. I reviewed my previous work and did not find substantial changes involved that suddenly placed him on step 5. Dropping Ruth Dean's apparent height including hat by a few inches to eye level is superficial to the actual placement of Lovelady. I've added a hat now to Ruth to avoid more confusion about that. So, to write I changed my mind about the two step drop is a little off the mark, IMO.  I do value the feedback you and others offer.

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Re: Where was Lovelady Standing in Wiegman and Altgens6?
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2018, 10:38:29 PM »