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Author Topic: What did SS agent Kellerman mean by, "A flurry of shells come into the car?"  (Read 5022 times)

Offline Jake Maxwell

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What did SS agent Roy Kellerman mean when he testified that a flurry of shells came into Kennedy's limousine?

Mr. SPECTER. As you are positioning yourself in the witness chair, your right hand is up with the finger at the ear level as if clutching from the right of the head; would that be an accurate description of the position you pictured there?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes. Good. There was enough for me to verify that the man was hit. So, in the same motion I come right back and grabbed the speaker and said to the driver, "Let's get out of here; we are hit," and grabbed the mike and I said, "Lawson, this is Kellerman,"--this is Lawson, who is in the front car. "We are hit; get us to the hospital immediately." Now, in the seconds that I talked just now, a flurry of shells come into the car. I then looked back and this time Mr. Hill, who was riding on the left front bumper of our followup car, was on the back trunk of that car; the President was sideways down into. the back seat.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating on his left side.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right; just like I am here.
Mr. SPECTER. You mean, correct, left side?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Correct; yes, sir. Governor Connally by that time is lying flat backwards into her lap-- Mrs. Connally--and she was lying flat over him.


LATER in his testimony he referred to a flurry of shots...

Mr. SPECTER. Now, did President Kennedy say anything beside, "My God, I am hit."
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is the last words he said, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mrs. Kennedy say anything at that specific time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, there was an awful lot of confusion in that back seat. She did a lot of talking which I can't recall all the phrases.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, pinpoint--
Mr. KELLERMAN. But after the flurry of shots, I recall her saying, "What are they doing to you?" Now again, of course, my comparison of the voice of her speech--certainly, I have heard it many times, and in the car there was conversation she was carrying on through shock, I am sure.


Is this evidence of a conspiracy??



« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 02:39:52 AM by Jake Maxwell »

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Online John Mytton

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What did SS agent Roy Kellerman mean when he testified that a flurry of shells came into Kennedy's limousine?

Mr. SPECTER. As you are positioning yourself in the witness chair, your right hand is up with the finger at the ear level as if clutching from the right of the head; would that be an accurate description of the position you pictured there?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes. Good. There was enough for me to verify that the man was hit. So, in the same motion I come right back and grabbed the speaker and said to the driver, "Let's get out of here; we are hit," and grabbed the mike and I said, "Lawson, this is Kellerman,"--this is Lawson, who is in the front car. "We are hit; get us to the hospital immediately." Now, in the seconds that I talked just now, a flurry of shells come into the car. I then looked back and this time Mr. Hill, who was riding on the left front bumper of our followup car, was on the back trunk of that car; the President was sideways down into. the back seat.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating on his left side.
Mr. KELLERMAN. Right; just like I am here.
Mr. SPECTER. You mean, correct, left side?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Correct; yes, sir. Governor Connally by that time is lying flat backwards into her lap-- Mrs. Connally--and she was lying flat over him.


LATER in his testimony he referred to a flurry of shots...

Mr. SPECTER. Now, did President Kennedy say anything beside, "My God, I am hit."
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is the last words he said, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mrs. Kennedy say anything at that specific time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, there was an awful lot of confusion in that back seat. She did a lot of talking which I can't recall all the phrases.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, pinpoint--
Mr. KELLERMAN. But after the flurry of shots, I recall her saying, "What are they doing to you?" Now again, of course, my comparison of the voice of her speech--certainly, I have heard it many times, and in the car there was conversation she was carrying on through shock, I am sure.


Is this evidence of a conspiracy??



Quote
Is this evidence of a conspiracy??

No, Kellerman describes 3 shots.

We were still traveling at the normal rate of speed of from 12 to 15 miles per hour when I heard a noise, similar to a firecracker, exploding in the area to the rear of the car, about 12:30 p.m.

Immediately I heard what I firmly believe was the President's voice, "My God, I'm hit!" I turned around to find out what happened when two additional shots rang out, and the President slumped into Mrs. Kennedy's lap and Governor Connally fell_to Mrs. Connally's lap. I heard Mrs. Kennedy shout, "What are they doing to you?"

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Mr. SPECTER. You mean now two shots in addition to the first noise?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; yes, sir; at least.

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Representative FORD. This is for the second and the third, or the flurry as you described it?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right; that is right, sir.

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JohnM
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 02:47:06 AM by John Mytton »

Offline Jake Maxwell

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I notice that Kellerman says at least two shots... and both Ford and Specter seem to try to lead him into an answer of "two shots." (SEE below)
I think a very good argument could be made here, that the commission was asking leading questions of Kellerman.
"Flurry" means something like sudden heavy activity...
Two is not a flurry...
Specter and Ford were leading the witness...

So, yes... good evidence for a conspiracy... perhaps even at the higher echelons of our government...


Mr. SPECTER. You mean now two shots in addition to the first noise?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir; yes, sir; at least.


Representative FORD. This is for the second and the third, or the flurry as you described it?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is right; that is right, sir.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 04:07:11 AM by Jake Maxwell »

Offline Jake Maxwell

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Again, here is Roy Kellerman's testimony...

Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen.

When you read the questioning of Spector and Ford, it really appears to be a good case of leading the witness into affirming only two or three shots, not trying to clarify his testimony.... Two is not a flurry... and of course, IMO....


Online John Mytton

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Again, here is Roy Kellerman's testimony...

Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen.

When you read the questioning of Spector and Ford, it really appears to be a good case of leading the witness into affirming only two or three shots, not trying to clarify his testimony.... Two is not a flurry... and of course, IMO....



Quote
and of course, IMO....

Exactly, it doesn't matter what you or I think "flurry" means but what it means to Kellerman and it seems he's pretty sure that there was at least 3 shots, the extra confusion may have been caused by the noise of Kennedy's head being struck and exploding and the bullet fragments that went on to strike the glass and the windscreen edge.





JohnM

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Offline Jake Maxwell

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Kellerman refers to a flurry of shots... which is more than two...

And he refers to the several wounds in JFK (four) and the wounds in Connally (three) which Kellerman says suggests more than three shots...

Then there is the next line of questioning... that refers to a cracked windshield...



Mr. SPECTER. Do you have anything to add, Mr. Kellerman, on the total number of wounds in relationship to your view that there were more than three shots?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Well, let's consider the vehicle.
Mr. SPECTER. Fine. What about the vehicle would you consider relevant in this regard?
Mr. KELLERMAN. The windshield itself, which I observed a day or two after the funeral here, had been hit by a piece of this missile or missiles, whatever it is, shell.
Mr. SPECTER. While you are referring to the windshield, permit me to hand you a photograph marked Commission Exhibit 349 and ask if you can tell us what that photograph depicts?
Mr. KELLERMAN. This photograph is the windshield of the Presidential special automobile that we used in Dallas on November 22. And it depicts a hit by some instrument on the metal railing that covers the windshield.
Mr. SPECTER. In what position is the hit on that metal railing?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Directly to the right of the mirror.
Mr. SPECTER. Is that on the top of the windshield?
Mr. KELLERMAN. That is on the top of the windshield. I am sorry; this is not the windshield itself; this is the top of the vehicle. This is the framework.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you draw a red arrow with the pen that you have to the mark which you have just describe?

Offline Jake Maxwell

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This flurry of shots Kellerman describes, is quite possibly the reason Governor John Connally cried out in the midst of the shooting...

"My God, they're going to kill us all!"

Online Jerry Freeman

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How about....like not every shot that was fired was actually heard?

CZ 452 bolt-action rimfire rifle with silencer

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Silencers were regularly used by agents of the United States Office of Strategic Services, who favored the newly designed High Standard HDM .22 Long Rifle pistol during World War II.
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Online John Mytton

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CZ 452 bolt-action rimfire rifle with silencer





Brilliant, so you go to great trouble to setup your Patsy who was high and behind and then for some unknown reason you have a shooter in the opposite direction, surrounded by open area and to top it off uses completely different ballistics, in what possible universe does that make sense?



JohnM

Offline Bill Chapman

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Brilliant, so you go to great trouble to setup your Patsy who was high and behind and then for some unknown reason you have a shooter in the opposite direction, surrounded by open area and to top it off uses completely different ballistics, in what possible universe does that make sense?



JohnM

The one where contractions don't matter
Like 42 groups, 84 shooters and 214 conspirators
Freeman and his ilk went to TrumpU

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