Lame LN excuses

[Martin Weidmann]

Show ten people a color picture of Oswald's jacket and ask them what color it is.  I bet you get several different responses white, gray, tan.  It is a non-descript color.  We know Oswald was wearing a jacket when he left his boardinghouse around 1PM but he is not wearing it less than a hour later when arrested.   Where do you think it went?

Speculating about what did or did not happen to a jacket is by no standard evidence of anything.

No we don't know that Oswald was wearing a jacket when he left the boardinghouse. The only person who claimed that Oswald left wearing a jacket was Earlene Roberts and she failed to identify CE 162 because she believed that Oswald's jacket was darker. Buell Frazier's testimony suggests that Oswald was wearing CE 162 to Irving on Thursday evening. If Frazier is correct, there is no way that same jacket could have been at North Beckley at 1PM the next day.

[Martin Weidmann]

JohnM

Why are there initials on the jacket of DPD officers who were never part of the chain of custody?

Captain Westbrook testified that a police officer he could not identify found the jacket and showed it to him as it was still under the car. Westbrook then gave the jacket to another officer, who he also could not name, and moved on to the Texas Theater. In several radio calls the jacket was described as being white. The officer who called in the discovery of the jacket was J.T. Griffin of the Traffic Division, but his initial isn't on the jacket.

Then the jacket somehow disappears until it (or at least a grey colored jacket) shows up at DPD Headquarters in the possession of Captain Westbrook who presents it to the Identification Bureau at 3PM. He stated that the initials WEB and GMD were placed there by officers, but who they are is unknown.

[Richard Smith]

Speculating about what did or did not happen to a jacket is by no standard evidence of anything.

No we don't know that Oswald was wearing a jacket when he left the boardinghouse. The only person who claimed that Oswald left wearing a jacket was Earlene Roberts and she failed to identify CE 162 because she believed that Oswald's jacket was darker. Buell Frazier's testimony suggests that Oswald was wearing CE 162 to Irving on Thursday evening. If Frazier is correct, there is no way that same jacket could have been at North Beckley at 1PM the next day.

Walt indicated that the jacket in evidence is not the one found because it was described as "white."  Do you believe that characterizing this jacket as white instead of gray precludes it from being the one found by the police?  Earlene Roberts was the ONLY witness to see Oswald at the boarding house.  So dismissing her testimony just because she was the only person who saw him is silly.  She indicates that he had a jacket on.  Witnesses at the Tippit scene described a person they later identified as Oswald wearing a jacket.  Multiple witnesses, therefore, connect Oswald to a jacket before his arrest.  But when he is arrested, there is suddenly no jacket.  It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to sort out what happened.  Oswald understood that witnesses had seen a man wearing a jacket murder Tippit.  He removes the jacket in an attempt to change his appearance. 

[Martin Weidmann]

Walt indicated that the jacket in evidence is not the one found because it was described as "white."  Do you believe that characterizing this jacket as white instead of gray precludes it from being the one found by the police?  Earlene Roberts was the ONLY witness to see Oswald at the boarding house.  So dismissing her testimony just because she was the only person who saw him is silly.  She indicates that he had a jacket on.  Witnesses at the Tippit scene described a person they later identified as Oswald wearing a jacket.  Multiple witnesses, therefore, connect Oswald to a jacket before his arrest.  But when he is arrested, there is suddenly no jacket.  It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to sort out what happened.  Oswald understood that witnesses had seen a man wearing a jacket murder Tippit.  He removes the jacket in an attempt to change his appearance.

Walt indicated that the jacket in evidence is not the one found because it was described as "white."

iirc it was described as being white during several radio calls, by different people.

Earlene Roberts was the ONLY witness to see Oswald at the boarding house.  So dismissing her testimony just because she was the only person who saw him is silly.

No more or less silly than to rely fully on that witness.

The reason not to instantly accept her testimony is not that she was the only witness at the roominghouse, but the fact that Buell Frazier testimony suggests that Oswald was wearing the grey jacket (CE 162) to Irving on Thursday evening and Otto has just shown us that Marina also confirmed that. There is no physical way for a jacket that was in Irving on Thursday evening to end up at North Beckley on Friday after noon. Which in turn justifies the question what jacket, if any, did Earlene Roberts really see?

We know from her testimony that she was blind in one eye and that she was concentrating on getting the TV to work, which means she would have been standing with her back turned to the living room. The walk from Oswald's room to the front door is a matter of seconds and if Roberts was looking at the TV she would probably only have seen him leaving as he reached the front door to go outside. All this justifies the conclusion that Roberts would only have seen Oswald for two or three seconds at best and she could easily have been mistaken about what he was wearing. Officer Baker was and he saw Oswald up close in the TSBD lunchroom and Whaley was, despite having Oswald sitting next to him in his cab. The testimony of Frazier and Marina clearly suggests that Roberts was indeed mistaken.

[John Mytton]

Marina said:

Mr. RANKIN. 162?
Mrs. OSWALD. That is Lee's--an old shirt.
Mr. RANKIN. Sort of a jacket?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Oops -- LOL

Huh? Marina is looking right at the piece of clothing and says it's Oswald's, what about that makes you "laugh out loud", why do you find that funny?

Btw the way you are constantly rolling about on the floor laughing your guts out, comes across as psychotic!



JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Huh? Marina is looking right at the piece of clothing and says it's Oswald's, what about that makes you "laugh out loud", why do you find that funny?

Btw the way you are constantly rolling about on the floor laughing your guts out, comes across as psychotic!

JohnM

Btw the way you are constantly rolling about on the floor laughing your guts out, comes across as psychotic!

Speaking from experience, are you?

Marina is looking right at the piece of clothing and says it's Oswald's

Yes indeed, and she confirmed what Buell Frazier said in his testimony; that Oswald was wearing CE162 to Irving on Thursday evening. Care to explain how it could have gotten to North Beckley the next day for Roberts to see Oswald putting it on?

[John Mytton]

Btw the way you are constantly rolling about on the floor laughing your guts out, comes across as psychotic!

Speaking from experience, are you?

Marina is looking right at the piece of clothing and says it's Oswald's

Yes indeed, and she confirmed what Buell Frazier said in his testimony; that Oswald was wearing CE162 to Irving on Thursday evening. Care to explain how it could have gotten to North Beckley the next day for Roberts to see Oswald putting it on?

Sorry Otto Roger Weidmann, Earlene Roberts was quite specific that Oswald was zipping up his jacket as he left the rooming house. Btw attacking Roberts and casting aspersions that she saw the precise action of zipping just because she was blind in one eye is pathetic.

Mr. BALL. It was a zippered jacket, was it?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; it was a zipper jacket. How come me to remember it, he was zipping it up as he went out the door.
Mr. BALL. He was zipping it up as he went out the door?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.

JohnM

[Martin Weidmann]

Sorry Otto Roger Weidmann, Earlene Roberts was quite specific that Oswald was zipping up his jacket as he left the rooming house. Btw attacking Roberts and casting aspersions that she saw the precise action of zipping just because she was blind in one eye is pathetic.

Mr. BALL. It was a zippered jacket, was it?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; it was a zipper jacket. How come me to remember it, he was zipping it up as he went out the door.
Mr. BALL. He was zipping it up as he went out the door?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes.

JohnM

Sorry Otto Roger Weidmann

Are you so far gone that you can't tell people apart anymore?

Earlene Roberts was quite specific that Oswald was zipping up his jacket as he left the rooming house.

Yes, and Whaley was quite specific that Oswald was wearing two jackets and Buell Frazier and his sister were quite specific that the bag Oswald carried was not big enough to contain a broken down rifle, so what's your point?

Roberts was also very clear in her testimony that the jacket she saw was darker than CE162.

Btw attacking Roberts and casting aspersions that she saw the precise action of zipping just because she was blind in one eye is pathetic.

Nobody is attacking anybody, Mr "I'm only here for the truth". It's a statement of fact that she was blind in one eye. Just like it was a statement of fact that she was concentrating on the TV, which means she had her back turned to the room.

So, why do Frazier and Marina both place the grey jacket CE162 in Irving on Thursday evening and how did it get to North Beckley on Friday afternoon?