When Was JBC Hit?

[Andrew Mason]

Why doesn't Greer have his eyes on the road?

What's Nellie looking at?

Connaly said after the first shot, he turned to his right and tried to catch a glance of JFK over his right shoulder.

Don't you think that's what he's doing in Z-180?

He said he immediately recognized the first loud noise as a rifle shot and turned to look back at JFK.  If he was wanting to do that around z180 I would be expecting to see him turning his head so the light from JFK could reach his eyes.  Also, in his Dec. 11/63 statement he said he saw three buildings including the Country Records building.  Do you think he can see those buildings at z180?  I don't see how.

[Tom Graves]

If Connally was trying to glance at JFK over his right shoulder around Z-180, I would expect to see him turn his head so the light from JFK could reach his eyes.

So that the light from JFK could reach his eyes?

I have no idea what you're talking about, Sir Isaac Newton.

You seem to be saying that if Connally was trying to do what I think he was trying to do around Z-180, he would have turned farther to his right than he did.

I think it's reasonable to assume that large-man Connally turned as far to his right as he could in the confined space in his attempt to catch a view of JFK out of the corner of his eye, but he couldn't "see" (i.e., recognize) JFK out of the corner of said eye because JFK's head was also turned far to his right and because his right hand was raised to wave to someone and was, therefore, partially blocking Connally's (peripheral) view of his face.

Connally may have even thought that the reason he couldn't "see" JFK was because JFK had been hit and was down.

I think that's why he decided to turn back to his left to try to catch a glimpse of JFK over his left shoulder -- but unfortunately was hit by CE-399 before he could complete his pivot.

In his 11 December 1963 statement, Connally said he saw three buildings, including the Country Records building.  Do you think he can see those buildings at z180?  I don't see how.

I told you he (and Nellie, bless her pea-pickin' heart) was mixed up.

It sounds as though Connally conflated what he saw around Z-180 with what he saw after he was wounded by CE-399.

I guess intense pain and/or trauma can do funny things to one's memories.

As a well-known charismatic politician, it was second nature for Connally to project an aura of confidence and certainty, but in-so-doing he unfortunately misled a lot of people regarding the timing of Oswald's three shots.

[Andrew Mason]

So that the light from JFK could reach his eyes?

I have no idea what you're talking about, Sir Isaac Newton.

Sorry. I shouldn’t have assumed that you knew how eyes worked.

You seem to be saying that if Connally was trying to do what I think he was trying to do around Z-180, he would have turned farther to his right than he did.

So far, your observational skills seem to be working.

I think it's reasonable to assume that large-man Connally turned as far to his right as he could in the confined space in his attempt to catch a view of JFK out of the corner of his eye, but he couldn't "see" (i.e., recognize) JFK out of the corner of said eye because JFK's head was also turned far to his right and because his right hand was raised to wave to someone and was, therefore, partially blocking Connally's (peripheral) view of his face.

Connally is not turned nearly as far right as he was at z255 as seen in Altgens #6.  Also, he makes no attempt to turn his head. The head can turn past the shoulders. He’s got another 90 degrees of head turn left to go.

I told you he (and Nellie, bless her pea-pickin' heart) was mixed up.

It sounds as though Connally conflated what he saw around Z-180 with what he saw after he was wounded by CE-399.

I guess intense pain and/or trauma can do funny things to one's memories.

As a well-known charismatic politician, it was second nature for Connally to project an aura of confidence and certainty, but in-so-doing he unfortunately misled a lot of people regarding the timing of Oswald's three shots.

So if the evidence doesn’t fit the preferred theory, the evidence is the problem.  You have another 24 witnesses besides Nellie who said that JFK reacted to the first shot. Then another 47 witnesses to reject to get rid of that annoying 1…..…2….3 shot pattern that conflicts with the second shot SBT.

[Tom Graves]

John Connally is not turned nearly as far to his right [in Z-180] as he was at Z-255, as seen in Altgens-6.

I didn't say that he was.

Being shot in the back can make one contort in all kinds of strange ways.

Connally makes no attempt to turn his head [farther to his right than Z-180]. The head can turn past the shoulders. He’s got another 90 degrees of head turn left to go.

Just like Linda Blair in "The Exorcist"?

Having just heard a nearby high-powered rifle shot come from behind him while riding in a slow-moving convertible with the President of the United States, maybe he didn't want to linger in one position for too long.

Do you think he should have turned all the way around and smiled for Oswald?

He said that after he heard the sounds of the first shot, he turned to his right -- not to look directly at JFK, but to try to catch a glimpse of him over his shoulder.

He tried doing that, but he couldn't "see" (i.e., recognize) JFK because JFK had turned HIS head TO HIS FAR RIGHT and had raised his right hand to wave to someone, thereby partially blocking his (peripheral) view of JFK's face.

You have another twenty-four witnesses besides Nellie who said that JFK reacted to the first shot.

He did consciously react to Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot -- by quickly and briefly turning his head towards Jackie around Z-143. Then he started turning his head back to his far right and started waving to somebody around Z-176 (see above).

Then you must reject another forty-seven witnesses to get rid of that annoying 1…..…2….3 shot pattern that conflicts with the second-shot SBT.

Eyewitnesses and earwitnesses are notoriously unreliable, especially in an echo chamber like Dealey Plaza.

Photographic evidence trumps sketchy eyewitness / earwitness recollections.

You have to deal with the fact that all five of the passengers in the limo consciously but rapidly moved their heads between Z-140 and Z-150, as did Glen Bennett and George Hickey in the Secret Service follow-up car, and Rosemary Willis on the other side of the street.