JFK Assassination Forum

How do we know that Rosemary Willis, in her conscious reaction to Oswald's first, missing everything shot at "Z-124," [SNIP]

This is the kind of abject silliness that WC apologists have to peddle to try to make their theory work.

A gunman firing at "Z-124" (aka pseudo Z124) would have been shooting at an incredibly awkward downward angle, a supremely stupid shot to attempt. What Tom Graves is not telling you is that those who peddle this silly theory claim that the bullet hit the traffic signal’s support pole or guy rod, and that this is how the shot missed the entire gigantic limousine (it was 21 feet long and 6.6 feet wide).

WC apologists must assume that their "first shot" missed the entire limo, so they have to come up with these bizarre theories to explain how a sixth-floor gunman could have missed such a massive target from such a short distance. At any point before Z166, the limo would have been no more than 150 feet, or just 50 yards, from the sixth-floor window. Posner speculates that the bullet hit a branch of the oak tree. Others, such as Tom Graves, have their alleged lone gunman firing even earlier and somehow, someway hitting the guy rod or the support pole of the traffic light, in order to explain how he missed the entire limo. 

It boggles the mind to think that any gunman in the sixth-floor window, even an inexperienced and subpar amateur such as Oswald, would have taken a shot when he would have had to fire at such an awkwardly sharp downward angle, and when the guy rod and support pole would have been close to his center of aim on the target.

How steep of a downward angle are we talking about for a shot fired at "Z124"? FBI firearms expert Robert Frazier told the WC that a shot fired at Z161, 37 frames after "Z124," would have required a downward angle of 40 degrees. Therefore, a shot fired at "Z124" would have required an even steeper downward angle—almost straight down. Ridiculous.

And then there is the problem of the trajectory of ricochet fragments from the traffic signal to the back of JFK’s head. In Z140, JFK is facing to his right while waving at the crowd. He is still facing to his right in Z142, and he is still doing so in Z160 (though not as much as in Z140). How could ricochet fragments from the traffic signal’s guy rod or support pole have struck JFK in the back of the head? They would have hit him on the right side of his head, possibly including the right side of his face, not on the back of his head.

Of course, never mind that atomic analysis of the paraffin cast of Oswald's right cheek shows he did not fire a rifle on 11/22/63. Never mind that considerable eyewitness testimony puts Oswald on the first and second floor of the building during the shooting. Never mind that VSA polygraph analysis of Oswald's statements to journalists while in police custody shows he was telling the truth when he said he didn't shoot anybody. Never mind that the only three Master-rated riflemen who did a rifle test with the actual alleged murder weapon utterly failed to duplicate Oswald's alleged shooting feat. And on and on we could go. Just never you mind.

Like many, many UFO prevaricators. . . .

So you don't believe in UFOs? Given your worldview, I'm not surprised. I take it you are unaware of all the released files, including U.S. Navy videos, that prove UFOs exist and cannot be manmade. I take it you are also unaware of all the former military and federal officials who have come forward with information that confirms that UFOs exist and cannot be manmade.

But, of course, since the U.S. Government has not officially publicly acknowledged that UFOs are real and are not manmade, and since all major government agencies continue to deny that UFOs exist, you reflexively assume that UFOs are either manmade or nonexistent.

I dare you to watch two recent documentaries on UFOs, both available on Amazon Prime: The Phenomenon (released in 2020) and The Program (released in 2024).

The Phenomenon
https://www.primevideo.com/detail/0TRGFOHOLA10DORESUTK8QL4K1/ref=atv_dp_share_cu_r

The Program
https://www.primevideo.com/detail/0FBQAS5V99JW8KUUR66PBMVGJM/ref=atv_dp_share_cu_r

FYI, my wife saw a UFO in the early 1990s in Utah, and I knew a military air traffic controller (ATC) who told me that he and other ATCs tracked UFOs flying at speeds and doing maneuvers that were far beyond the capabilities of our most advanced fighter jets. When I worked in military intelligence, one of our collection planes was buzzed by a UFO for 10-15 minutes. Several friends of mine were on that plane and told me all about it. They were very shaken by the experience.

How healthy does a guy have to be to pull a trigger?

Why was Havana so eager to bring a US citizen--Lopez---into Cuba?

Question: Where's Richard Smith?

Answer: He's probably celebrating the fifth anniversary of The Traitorous Orange Bird's (rhymes with "Xxxx's) attempted coup against America.

LP--

You are a little tough on JFKA researchers, but you make a lot of good points.

I thought you overlooked one aspect of JFKA research: Ideology.

The ideology drives the agenda, and the agenda drives the narrative.

Devout left-wingers have developed elaborate JFKA narratives (Vincent Salandria and others) that insist the JFKA was a plot involving dozens, if not more, and reached into highest levels of US government and capitalism. Not only that, elements of the CIA, the Pentagon, the Secret Service, the FBI, the Navy autopsists, the Dallas Police Department and the Dallas Sheriffs and DA, all played bit parts in the narrative. There have been even more participants that I have forgotten about. The media was totally onboard.


OTOH, former CIA Chief James Woolsey authored a book blaming the KGB for the JFKA.

The Education Forum is dominated by left-wing ideologues and crackpots who have all but snuffed out other points of view.

But there are other points of view.

My guess: Alpha 66, or KGB and G2 assets embedded in the Cuban community and the US intel community.

A very small plot, perhaps only three people, and that includes LHO.

Those motivated primarily by ideology are my category #3 above. I noticed this early-on at the Ed Forum and started a highly unpopular thread about it. I have to agree with Michael, however, that I think there is a strong ideological component to the fanatical LN defense community as well.

Your guess sounds considerably more elaborate than the small-scale conspiracy I thought you were suggesting. I could at least entertain either:

1. Oswald is influenced and perhaps made promises by some fellow pro-Castro types in New Orleans or Mexico City, but Dealey Plaza is pretty much the LN scenario.

2. Same as #1, but there is another pro-Castro gunman in the Dal Tex or County Records building.

3. Oswald makes a spectacle of himself in New Orleans to the extent that Marcello's folks recognize a made-to-order patsy. Oswald is induced to think he's part of a pro-Castro operation but in fact is part of a Mafia operation with a Mafia pro in the Dal Tex or County Records  building.

I think there are LN objections to all three scenarios, but they are at least within the realm of possibility. Once we get into anything more elaborate or that requires Oswald to be anything other than the Castro-admiring Marxist he actually was, it seems to me that things quickly fall apart.

I see now that you posit perhaps only three people including LHO. It was the term "assets" that threw me.