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91
The other agents in the followup car heard three shots despite operating under the same disadvantages vis-a-vis the motorcycle engines, so I'm not sure if that's the answer.

I don't think that's true. Hickey's report indicated JFK had been hit by the first shot. He said the next two shots were so close together that there was no time between them. That indicates to me he didn't hear the first shot and heard a double sound from the last shot.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-hicke.htm

Landis' report only indicated there were two shots and that the second shot was the head shot.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-landi.htm

Ready's report was vague about the number of shots.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-ready.htm

Robert's report indicated 3 shots but was unsure whether the headshot was the second or third shot.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-ready.htm

Kinney's (the driver) report indicated just 2 shots
https://www.jfk-online.com/kinney.html

McIntyre's report indicated 3 shots but estimated only 5 seconds for all three shots
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-mcint.htm

Bennett's report seemed to be the most accurate regarding the number, timing, and sequence of the shots.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-benne.htm

David Powers affidavit indicated 3 shots but according to his description, JFK started leaning left after the first shot which indicates he thought JFK had been hit by the first shot.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/powers1.htm

Lastly, we have Kenny O'Donnell's WC testimony in which he describes 3 shots in 5 or 6 seconds with the first two being closer together
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/odonnell.htm

In just the Secret Service follow up car, we have 9 divergent versions of the shooting. People wonder why I have so little faith in eyewitness recollections.
92
There's no credible reason to doubt that the two men seen fast-walking up the extension in the Gerda Dunkel zoomed slow-motion Couch/Darnell clip are Lovelady & Shelley...The men are right where they were supposed to be according to testimony...Lovelady has the same dimension geometric plaid pattern as he is seen wearing in other photos and same bald spot...And Shelley has his body shape, black suit jacket, white shirt collar, and Duck's Bahookie hair doo.....And he pulls up and talks to Karan Hicks as she goes by...Anything less strikes me as deliberate misinformation designed to confuse...

This is evidence enough for persons truly seeking correct identification...

I believe the obtaining and enhancement of the 6th Floor Museum 1st generation copy of Darnell will show Molina as the man being called Lovelady on the steps...

Honestly Brian, you are such a massive disappointment.
I was hailed as the "new Brian Doyle" for my belief that Prayer Man was Sarah Stanton. I took it as a badge of honour and that you were some renegade researcher fighting against mass hysteria.
But it turns out you're just a dick.
You have exactly the same mentality as the worst Nutters - Corbett, "Smith" and Payette. It's something I should start a thread about - people who believe that just because they think a thing means its a fact.

I would like you to stop posting on this thread as it is a genuine attempt to get to the bottom of a specific issue and you have nothing to offer other than your own, unsupported opinion.
It's funny that you think you are hounded because you are on the right trail...that's not it...it's because you are a know-nothing blowhard who believes his opinion trumps any facts.
If you have the balls for a genuine debate that involves citing sources and actually providing evidence for your claims then let's go.

"There's no credible reason to doubt that the two men seen fast-walking up the extension in the Gerda Dunkel zoomed slow-motion Couch/Darnell clip are Lovelady & Shelley"

ALL EVIDENCE relating to this issue disputes this identification of Shelley and Lovelady.
There is ZERO EVIDENCE supporting this claim.
NONE.
There is nothing in Dunkel's Couch/Darnell clip that suggests the intricate shirt detail and bald patch of Lovelady - this is a lie

"The men are right where they were supposed to be according to testimony"

Another ridiculous lie.
You say "according to testimony", Royell points out that they testified that they didn't move from the steps for at least 3 minutes and you start waffling about how they were made to lie. If they were made to lie how can it be "according to testimony"? Are you aware of the sh!t you post?

Lovelady has the same dimension geometric plaid pattern as he is seen wearing in other photos and same bald spot.

What "other photos"?
Provide these photos.
Cite these photos.
Post these photos.
Somehow support the nonsense you are posting.

.And he pulls up and talks to Karan Hicks as she goes by

I literally can't believe you keep posting this lie over and over again.

93
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Dan O'meara on August 06, 2026, 07:35:33 PM »
Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Why did the evil, evil bad guys create such a strangely deformed bullet?

How did the evil, evil bad guys create such a strangely deformed bullet?

And how many evil, evil bad guys were involved in the assassination and or it's "ongoing cover up ," anyway?

Oodles and gobs, or just a few?

--Tom

Someone let lil' Tommy out of his pen.
In your tiny mind CE399 somehow represents a bullet that smashed one of the most dense, hardest bones in the body.
EVERY SINGLE TEST done with a bullet fired into this bone deformed the bullet to a massive extent, barely recognisable from its original shape.
But your tiny, tiny brain believes uttering the chant "tumbling" somehow, in some insane version of reality, makes things alright.

Let's be clear about one thing...Frazier's manipulation of the ballistic evidence wasn't part of some 'pre-assassination' conspiracy.
He was being directly instructed from Hoover to make the Oswald-Was-The-Lone Assassin decree a reality.

This is why CE399 only appears in the Washington labs.
It's why the bullet that fell to the operating floor from JBC's stretcher became the fragments labelled Q9 in the Washington labs.

Here's an experiment for your lil' brain Tommy - name a single piece of ballistic evidence that is identified as being from Oswald's rifle that has a remotely recognisable chain of custody.

 Thumb1:
94
The other agents in the followup car heard three shots despite operating under the same disadvantages vis-a-vis the motorcycle engines, so I'm not sure if that's the answer.
95
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on August 06, 2026, 06:35:45 PM »
Ermmm... I'm the one who was talking about the two unrecorded bullet fragments supposedly recovered from the limo by an unknown agent at an unknown time that had nothing to do with a legitimate examination of the limo crime scene.

I'M THE ONE TELLING YOU ABOUT IT!!

You are the one going on about another bullet that was recovered.
Clearly you are talking sh!t, as usual. You have been called out on it and are now trying to make it look as though you weren't talking complete sh!t.
Are you so ignorant as to try to pretend there was another bullet 'recovered'??
Apparently so.
Or maybe you don't understand the difference between a bullet and multiple bullet fragments.

Just to try to cut through John's utter ignorance of this case...:
There is ZERO EVIDENCE CE399 was found at Parkland.
2 bullet fragments that have ZERO PROVENANCE were, apparently, handed over to the same FBI lab that faked the appearance of CE399.
Lots of dubious ballistic shenanigans appear to have gone on at the Washington labs, including the miracuolus appearance of CE399 and Q9.

Is it possible the FBI were faking ballistic evidence?
Is it possible that Hoover had already determined the outcome of the investigation before it had even begun?
Is it possible the WC Sham was an extension of the FBI's pre-determined 'investigation'?

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Why did the evil, evil bad guys create such a strangely deformed bullet?

How did the evil, evil bad guys create such a strangely deformed bullet?

And how many evil, evil bad guys were involved in the assassination and or it's "ongoing cover up ," anyway?

Oodles and gobs, or just a few?

--Tom
96
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Dan O'meara on August 06, 2026, 06:05:05 PM »
Are you really that ignorant or are you just pretending? Are you telling us you don't know about the fragmented bullet that was recovered by the Secret Service in the limo later that night with two of the fragments containing sufficient markings to positively match them to Oswald's rifle.

Ermmm... I'm the one who was talking about the two unrecorded bullet fragments supposedly recovered from the limo by an unknown agent at an unknown time that had nothing to do with a legitimate examination of the limo crime scene.

I'M THE ONE TELLING YOU ABOUT IT!!

You are the one going on about another bullet that was recovered.
Clearly you are talking sh!t, as usual. You have been called out on it and are now trying to make it look as though you weren't talking complete sh!t.
Are you so ignorant as to try to pretend there was another bullet 'recovered'??
Apparently so.
Or maybe you don't understand the difference between a bullet and multiple bullet fragments.

Just to try to cut through John's utter ignorance of this case...:
There is ZERO EVIDENCE CE399 was found at Parkland.
2 bullet fragments that have ZERO PROVENANCE were, apparently, handed over to the same FBI lab that faked the appearance of CE399.
Lots of dubious ballistic shenanigans appear to have gone on at the Washington labs, including the miracuolus appearance of CE399 and Q9.

Is it possible the FBI were faking ballistic evidence?
Is it possible that Hoover had already determined the outcome of the investigation before it had even begun?
Is it possible the WC Sham was an extension of the FBI's pre-determined 'investigation'?
97
A reasonable observation. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity for most people in Dealey Plaza to see Jack and Jackie up close. Who is going to look at them in their peripheral vision? But Andrew is so desperate to save his silly theory that he'll come up with anything.
I am not suggesting that she is looking at JFK. You are saying she has to be looking where her hood is facing, which may be the QM or the VP car.  I am just saying I don't know where she is looking because I can't see her face. 

When she turns her hood and head at z202, she can't be looking at JFK.  But I still can't tell where she is looking so I have to defer to the evidence.  She said that when she stopped running she turned and looked at the roof of the TSBD and saw pigeons flying away from it. That fits with the position of her head at z202-206. 
98
When people are looking at a famous person in a parade, they don't look at the person sideways, the turn their face directly towards them.
So, where can you see her face to know where it is directly turned toward?  Are you assuming that her head and hood must be facing in the same direction? If so, why?
99
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: CIA Wallets at Tenth and Patton
« Last post by Martin Weidmann on August 06, 2026, 05:42:19 PM »
Completely unnecessary. The WC provided all the evidence necessary to convince any person with common sense Oswald was the assassin.

PS. I don't give a shit about the wallets. It's just another example of a CT trying to make the case for conspiracy simply by raising a question or pointing to an anomaly. If you want to make the case for conspiracy, you have to provide actual evidence that someone other than Oswald took part in the crime. That means finding answers to the question raised and explaining how that answer proves conspiracy. Going around asking, "What about this? What about that?", doesn't cut it.

Completely unnecessary. The WC provided all the evidence necessary to convince any person with common sense Oswald was the assassin.

In your humble opinion, of course, right?

PS. I don't give a shit about the wallets.

Yes, we already knew. You only care about "evidence" that points to a predetermined conclusion.

But thank you for confirming that there was indeed more than one wallet.

Going around asking, "What about this? What about that?", doesn't cut it.

Of course it does. It shows clearly just how superficial and shallow your flawed opinions are. You can't even answer a simple question!  :D

You are not fooling anybody, except perhaps yourself. But that's just my humble opinion.
100
It fits like tight brick work and cracks the case...

Is that a fact. Whom does it implicate and what evidence is there of their involvement in the crime?
Quote

It isn't the Lone Nutters who prevent this final cracking of the case...It is the DiEugenio Education Forum clique under DiEugenio suck-up Andrew Iler and their hypocritical censorship...The Prayer Man cult of personality and website pecking order...

You guys are beaten...

If you really think you have evidence that someone other than Oswald was complicit in the assassination of JFK, why are you wasting time talking about it on forums that might have a few dozen active members? Why aren't you taking your case to major media outlets? If your case is as compelling as you claim, surely a few of them would be interested in it?
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