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91
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Royell Storing on December 17, 2025, 09:32:32 PM »
Quote from: Charles Collins on December 17, 2025, 08:50:30 PM

Even after JFK had obviously been shot the trained Secret Service agents were all looking around at ground level. The ambush from behind and above was a complete surprise. Even the people who did look up said they didn’t know why they looked up.

   There could have been More than 1 sound, More than 1 shot, being fired almost simultaneously. This might confuse people that are Not used to being around the sound of gunfire. The SS though? The fill-in guys like SA Hickey might get confused. But the regular SS? Nope! They are trained for this. Do you think a soldier could distinguish a shot fired from 6 stories high vs a shot fired at ground level? No question they can. This is why the testimony of ASAIC Kellerman and his description of a "flurry" of shells coming into the JFK Limo carried serious weight. This is why Specter directed the Kellerman WC QA. SS Agents were Not looking Upward. (L), (R), Back, but not a one of them was looking skyward as shots were being fired. And now that Max Holland is pushing an elapsed firing time of 11+ seconds for what he claims were 3 shots fired from the TSBD 6th Floor, the SS Agents had plenty of time to figure out where the shots were coming from and fix their attention/eyes Upward. That never happened.   
92
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Dale Myers Controversal Diagram
« Last post by Gerry Down on December 17, 2025, 09:11:43 PM »
Quote from: Bill Brown on November 13, 2025, 03:53:08 AM
Gerry Down,

By the way, I am leaving for Dallas tomorrow morning (as long as my flight doesn't get cancelled).  I am going to time the walk from the rooming house to Tenth & Lansing (where the curve is on Tenth Street), using the following route...

South on Beckley to 5th
East on 5th to Lansing
South on Lansing to Tenth

Then, from that point (Tenth & Lansing, where the curve is), it is a 2 minute 8 second walk to the patrol car.

I'll let you know how long THAT walk takes., but my guess is it gets Oswald to the curve on Tenth a couple minutes quicker than if he went down Beckley to Davis to Patton to Tenth to the curve before turning around on Tenth at the curve.

So Bill, did you come home yet or are still lost around the streets of Oak Cliff walking behind cars that are placed 20 feet back from each intersection?
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Charles Collins on December 17, 2025, 08:50:30 PM »
Quote from: Royell Storing on December 17, 2025, 05:05:24 PM
    If the "head turners" were reacting to a shot fired from 6 stories high, why are their heads Not angled Upward? They obviously are reacting to something at ground level.


Even after JFK had obviously been shot the trained Secret Service agents were all looking around at ground level. The ambush from behind and above was a complete surprise. Even the people who did look up said they didn’t know why they looked up.
94
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Royell Storing on December 17, 2025, 08:01:53 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on December 17, 2025, 07:34:16 PM
Perhaps to someone on the street who had shouted to the President to get his attention (because he was looking away from where they were standing).   If only we had evidence of that.....

   You're correct. But whatever ALL of these people are reacting to, their reaction is Not being directed at anything above them. And certainly not 6 stories above them. Nobody is looking upward. Their eye level is ground level.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Andrew Mason on December 17, 2025, 07:34:16 PM »
Quote from: Royell Storing on December 17, 2025, 05:05:24 PM
    If the "head turners" were reacting to a shot fired from 6 stories high, why are their heads Not angled Upward? They obviously are reacting to something at ground level.
Perhaps to someone on the street who had shouted to the President to get his attention (because he was looking away from where they were standing).   If only we had evidence of that.....
96
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: A Car, A Garden, And A Coupla Guys
« Last post by Royell Storing on December 17, 2025, 05:20:31 PM »
Quote from: Tom Graves on December 16, 2025, 11:31:56 PM
Dear Sonderführer Storing,

There are policemen I mean cops standing around it in the National Geographic video.

Wouldn't it be something if the fingerprints of Gilberto Policarpo Lopez, Miguel Casas Saez and/or Igor Vaganov were found in it?

-- Tom

   Yeah, and a DPD Cop/Baker confronted Oswald inside the TSBD lunchroom and released him. Also, SF Cops confronted The Zodiac and let him go along his way too.  DPD Cops being around the "getaway" car, in front of the TSBD, is indicative of their their Not realizing the importance of that car. 
97
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Royell Storing on December 17, 2025, 05:05:24 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on December 17, 2025, 03:58:56 PM
So that I am clear, you postulate a z-124 (.5 seconds before Zapruder started filming) based entirely on:
  • your interpretation of why you think people turned their heads when they did, and
  • despite all the witness evidence to the contrary, including evidence that explains why JFK and Jackie turned their heads to the right and waved for the last time, and
  • even though all the witnesses say that those turns were before the first horrible ear-shattering noise of the first shot.
If that is your theory, it needs to be presented with a touch of humility because it is not at all obviously one that fits the evidence.  Perhaps belittling those who disagree with your "theory" may not be the best approach to persuading others that you are right.

    If the "head turners" were reacting to a shot fired from 6 stories high, why are their heads Not angled Upward? They obviously are reacting to something at ground level. 
98
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Andrew Mason on December 17, 2025, 03:58:56 PM »
Quote from: Tom Graves on December 16, 2025, 03:08:43 AM
Dear Sonderführer Storing,

Confusing post.

Not unlike the confusing echo chamber known as Dealey Plaza when former Marine sharpshooter Lee Harvey Oswald fired a (missing-everything) shot at "Z-124" and two much easier follow-up shaots at Z-222 and Z-313.

D'oh!

-- Tom
So that I am clear, you postulate a z-124 (.5 seconds before Zapruder started filming) based entirely on:
  • your interpretation of why you think people turned their heads when they did, and
  • despite all the witness evidence to the contrary, including evidence that explains why JFK and Jackie turned their heads to the right and waved for the last time, and
  • even though all the witnesses say that those turns were before the first horrible ear-shattering noise of the first shot.
If that is your theory, it needs to be presented with a touch of humility because it is not at all obviously one that fits the evidence.  Perhaps belittling those who disagree with your "theory" may not be the best approach to persuading others that you are right.
99
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: James DiEugenio's Factoids about Howard Brennan
« Last post by Tom Graves on December 17, 2025, 03:31:15 AM »
Quote from: Michael Capasse on December 17, 2025, 02:21:34 AM
Amos Euins did not name Lee Oswald

"There was another witness to a shooter in the TSBD6 sniper window, Amos Euins."
100
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: James DiEugenio's Factoids about Howard Brennan
« Last post by Michael Capasse on December 17, 2025, 02:21:34 AM »
Amos Euins did not name Lee Oswald
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