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91
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Proof Rosemary Willis had started looking towards the TSBD by Z-145
« Last post by Royell Storing on December 19, 2025, 09:12:59 PM »

  Tina Towner - "Now I was beginning to leave when I heard the sky fall in - the LOUDEST crack of a rifle I HAD EVER HEARD".
                       
                       All of you are assuming Towner heard the Carcano Rifle being fired. Maybe she was hearing the sound of a Different gun/rifle being fired? 
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Proof Rosemary Willis had started looking towards the TSBD by Z-145
« Last post by Andrew Mason on December 19, 2025, 08:53:17 PM »
Quote from: Charles Collins on December 19, 2025, 07:34:00 PM

I agree with your last sentence. For what it’s worth, here is part of what Tina wrote in the epilogue of her book:

I noticed some minor discrepancies between what I recorded in the oral histories and what I now remember. Going through my files helped make some things more clear. If anyone wonders which is more accurate, I would lean toward my book rather than the oral history.

Frankly, I think that relating the time of the first shot to just after the end of her filming segment is something that she most likely would have been able to do accurately (because our memories are quite often based on those types of associations). However, I think that remembering exactly how much time might have elapsed between the end of her filming segment and the first shot would be much harder to gauge accurately. Therefore she gives a range of 1 or 2 seconds (if that much, aka: or less) in her book. That would place the first shot somewhere close to the Z133 time.
If that was all the evidence as to when the first shot occurred, I might find your point persuasive, although 2 seconds would put it around z150. 

But it isn't.  We have Croft who said that the first shot occurred after he had rewound his camera to take another photo after taking his photo at z161.  Betzner said that he took his z186 just before the first shot was heard.  Mary Woodward said that JFK's last smile and wave began before the first shot.  Witnesses between the lamp post and the Thornton sign said that JFK had just passed by where they were then the first shot sounded. Occupants of the VP car said that their car had just completed the turn when the first shot sounded - it is still turning when last seen in z180.  Occupants of the VP Security car said the first shot occurred as they were completing the turn (along side the TSBD) - it is about there in z191 when last seen.  Jane Berry, the 7th person west of the lamp post near the Thornton sign said that the first shot occurred as the President's car was passing by her.   

So, if one tries to fit Tina Towner's recollection to the rest of the evidence, 4 seconds is a better fit than 2.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Proof Rosemary Willis had started looking towards the TSBD by Z-145
« Last post by Charles Collins on December 19, 2025, 07:34:00 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on December 19, 2025, 06:13:33 PM
In Trask's Pictures of the Pain (p. 217) Trask refers to Tina Towner's interview from an article in Teen Magazine, from June 19, 1968 in which she is quoted as saying that just after she stopped filming:

"Now I was beginning to leave when I heard the sky fall in - the loudest crack of a rifle I had ever heard! At that time I had the least notion that it was a gun.  The truth of the matter was that I thought it was a fire cracker."

So her memory is that she was beginning to leave after stopping her camera and before the first shot.  The president had passed by and her father had walked farther down Elm St. so she was not intending to do any more filming.  She doesn't elaborate on the time that took to begin to leave but I suggest that it is consistent with her estimate of 4-5 maybe 6 seconds after filming before the first shot.  Even one or two seconds after she stopped filming does not fit a z124 first shot.


I agree with your last sentence. For what it’s worth, here is part of what Tina wrote in the epilogue of her book:

I noticed some minor discrepancies between what I recorded in the oral histories and what I now remember. Going through my files helped make some things more clear. If anyone wonders which is more accurate, I would lean toward my book rather than the oral history.

Frankly, I think that relating the time of the first shot to just after the end of her filming segment is something that she most likely would have been able to do accurately (because our memories are quite often based on those types of associations). However, I think that remembering exactly how much time might have elapsed between the end of her filming segment and the first shot would be much harder to gauge accurately. Therefore she gives a range of 1 or 2 seconds (if that much, aka: or less) in her book. That would place the first shot somewhere close to the Z133 time.
94
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Proof Rosemary Willis had started looking towards the TSBD by Z-145
« Last post by Andrew Mason on December 19, 2025, 06:13:33 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on December 12, 2025, 05:49:58 PM
Here is Tina Towner's last frame:


...
In her Sixth Floor Oral History from 1996 she said the first shot occurred 4 or 5 maybe 6 seconds after she stopped filming - see the 1:14:40 point of the video:
 


This is consistent with what she previously said she did between the time she stopped filming and the first shot, although her previous estimates of the time were 1 or 2 seconds or a few seconds.
In Trask's Pictures of the Pain (p. 217) Trask refers to Tina Towner's interview from an article in Teen Magazine, from June 19, 1968 in which she is quoted as saying that just after she stopped filming:

"Now I was beginning to leave when I heard the sky fall in - the loudest crack of a rifle I had ever heard! At that time I had the least notion that it was a gun.  The truth of the matter was that I thought it was a fire cracker."

So her memory is that she was beginning to leave after stopping her camera and before the first shot.  The president had passed by and her father had walked farther down Elm St. so she was not intending to do any more filming.  She doesn't elaborate on the time that took to begin to leave but I suggest that it is consistent with her estimate of 4-5 maybe 6 seconds after filming before the first shot.  Even one or two seconds after she stopped filming does not fit a z124 first shot.
95
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: James DiEugenio's Factoids about Howard Brennan
« Last post by Tom Graves on December 19, 2025, 04:07:26 AM »
Quote from: Michael Capasse on December 19, 2025, 03:52:09 AM
"Mr Brennan we know who you saw, we have his rifle, will you testify?
 Thumb1: easy peasy 1-2-3

Comrade Capasse,

How many evil, evil Deep State bad guys do you figure were involved, altogether, in the planning, the "patsy-ing," the planting of false evidence, the shooting, the getting-away, and the all-important (and evidently ongoing!!!) cover up?

Oodles and gobs, or just a few?


-- Tom
96
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: James DiEugenio's Factoids about Howard Brennan
« Last post by Michael Capasse on December 19, 2025, 03:52:09 AM »
"Mr Brennan we know who you saw, we have his rifle, will you testify?
 Thumb1: easy peasy 1-2-3
97
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: James DiEugenio's Factoids about Howard Brennan
« Last post by Tom Graves on December 19, 2025, 03:48:01 AM »
Quote from: Benjamin Cole on December 19, 2025, 01:56:16 AM
RS-

My layman's guess is the second shooter was in the Dal-Tex building or the TSBD6. But who knows. There is a strange event in the TSBD4 floor, that I will post about later.

The wounds to JFK and JBC suggest the shooter (s) was/were above and behind.

I suspect there was a diversion at the GK smoke-and-bang show.

The fact remains no one was apprehended 11/22 except LHO, and he was dead two days later.

So LHO's confederates could be anybody. KGB, G2, CIA, Alpha 66, Cuban exiles, Mafia.

The feds did not want LHO's links, domestic or foreign, to be tracked.

But...mostly foreign. WWIII.

I think the JFKA research community may be stretching matters in trying to exonerate LHO. The guy took a potshot at Gen. Walker. Human nature is not always explicable.

THE second shooter?

LOL!
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: James DiEugenio's Factoids about Howard Brennan
« Last post by Benjamin Cole on December 19, 2025, 01:56:16 AM »
RS-

My layman's guess is the second shooter was in the Dal-Tex building or the TSBD6. But who knows. There is a strange event in the TSBD4 floor, that I will post about later.

The wounds to JFK and JBC suggest the shooter (s) was/were above and behind.

I suspect there was a diversion at the GK smoke-and-bang show.

The fact remains no one was apprehended 11/22 except LHO, and he was dead two days later.

So LHO's confederates could be anybody. KGB, G2, CIA, Alpha 66, Cuban exiles, Mafia.

The feds did not want LHO's links, domestic or foreign, to be tracked.

But...mostly foreign. WWIII.

I think the JFKA research community may be stretching matters in trying to exonerate LHO. The guy took a potshot at Gen. Walker. Human nature is not always explicable.




99
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: A Car, A Garden, And A Coupla Guys
« Last post by Tom Graves on December 19, 2025, 01:54:13 AM »
Quote from: Royell Storing on December 19, 2025, 01:23:52 AM
Are you claiming that a DPD cop was involved the assassination?

Dear Sonderführer Storing,

Of course not.

Only a KGB-endorsed tinfoil-hat JFKA conspiracy theorist like you would even think of such a thing.


-- Tom
100
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: James DiEugenio's Factoids about Howard Brennan
« Last post by Benjamin Cole on December 19, 2025, 01:45:46 AM »
MC-

Do you have a link to the Brennan 11/22 TV interview on Youtube or elsewhere?

Even so, Brennan may have become fearful later. Other witnesses claimed to become fearful also.

 In any event, Euins and Jackson confirm the same thing. There was a shooter in the TSBD6 window.

This raises the question: How did that shooter leave without anyone seeing them? Likely, they just ran down the stairs ahead of anyone else, since they had planned out the escape route, and other TSBD'ers were still digesting what happened.



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