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91
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Last post by Andrew Mason on July 23, 2026, 01:14:05 AM »
Those 25 witnesses evidently mistook the "backfire-like" sound of Oswald's first shot at "Z-124" as a backfire, a firecracker, or maybe even a blowout.
And, apparently, these 25 witnesses never twigged to it being the first shot even after hearing two more - which they then realized were shots.  And most of them still recalled 3 shots but never thought the first noise was a shot..... You are joking, right?

Quote
That, coupled with the fact that JFK's "startle reaction" was undoubtedly too subtle to be observable, the fact that his and Jackie's conscious head turning around Z-139 evoked their inquisitiveness, if anything, and the fact that the first shot missed everything, led them to mistakenly believe that Oswald's second shot around Z-222 was his first one -- for the simple reason that JFK's and JBC's reactions were quite noticeable only after they were both wounded by CE-399.
You are using a circular argument.  You are using your conclusion that an early shot occurred to explain what you think is a subtle "startle reaction" of JFK and Jackie's very slight head turn farther to the left and then using those reactions to bolster your argument that there was an early missed shot.  You need evidence that a first shot occurred there first.  And the problem you have (as Dan O'Meara has also been explaining) is that all the evidence - literally several dozen witnesses - is completely inconsistent with an early missed first shot.
92
Did you happen to notice the car is turning the corner? As such, the perspective of Zapruder's camera to the car is constantly changing as the car makes the turn. Bennett is not leaning right. The backseat is moving right in relation to Zapruder's sight line. This isn't exactly rocket science.

Is that what's causing George Hickey to lean over the other side of the car in Z-150?

Centripetal (or is it centrifugal?) force?

How may Gs do you figure they're pulling?

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z150.jpg


By the way, regarding your beloved "jiggle analysis" approach, the HSCA's scientific panel concluded that, based on its "blur analysis" of the Zapruder frames, JFK and Connally were struck by one bullet at approximately Z-190.

Do you agree with the panel's conclusion, timing wise?


PS How about Z-153, Werner Von Braun?

Can you detect Bennett's lean, yet?

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z153.jpg
93
You're beyond hope, then.

Especially if you compare said tilt with the way he looked in frame Z-138.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z138.jpg

Did you happen to notice the car is turning the corner? As such, the perspective of Zapruder's camera to the car is constantly changing as the car makes the turn. Bennett is not leaning right. The backseat is moving right in relation to Zapruder's sight line. This isn't exactly rocket science.
94
Absolutely not.

You're beyond hope, then.

Especially if you compare said tilt with the way he looked in frame Z-138.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z138.jpg
95
You can't tell that Bennet's flesh-colored face and his white shirt are leaning to his right in Z-150?

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z150.jpg

Absolutely not.
96
The JFK brain matter that contained this trail of fine small particles was not preserved nor were those tiny particles ever removed and examined to see if they could be matched to 6.5 mm MC ammo.  Just coincidence?

Actually, fragments from the brain were compared to the fragments found inside the limo and fragments from JBC's wrist were compared to CE399, both by the FBI in 1964 and by Dr. Vincent Guinn for the HSCA in 1977. Ken Rahn wrote an excellent article about it. Rather than put my own spin on what those tests did or didn't prove, I'll post the article and everyone can decide for themselves.

https://kenrahn.com/JFK/Scientific_topics/NAA/NAA_and_JFK_assassination.html
97
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Last post by Tom Graves on July 23, 2026, 12:24:19 AM »
There are at least 25 witnesses who reported seeing JFK's reacting to the first shot.

Those 25 witnesses evidently mistook the "backfire-like" sound of Oswald's first shot at "Z-124" as a backfire, a firecracker, or maybe even a blowout.

That, coupled with the fact that JFK's "startle reaction" was undoubtedly too subtle to be observable, the fact that his and Jackie's conscious head turning around Z-139 evoked their inquisitiveness, if anything, and the fact that the first shot missed everything, led them to mistakenly believe that Oswald's second shot around Z-222 was his first one -- for the simple reason that JFK's and JBC's reactions were quite noticeable only after they were both wounded by CE-399.
98
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Last post by Tom Graves on July 23, 2026, 12:11:58 AM »
Why don’t you describe the changes you see between frame z139, z144 and z150 and give us your sense of where [the limo's passengers] are all facing?

In Z-139, JFK, who has been waving to spectators on his right (but not yet to Mary Woodward and Co. who are further down the street towards Zapruder), has begun quickly turning his head to his left in Jackie's direction. He looks in that direction for about a second and then, by Z-160, starts turning his head back to his right. By Z-175, he has turned his head far to his right and has started waving to Woodward and Co.

In Z-139, Jackie is already looking somewhat to her left. By Z-144 she starts turning her head farther to her left and "maxes out" in that direction by Z-161 when Robert Croft "captures" her with a concerned look on her face.

Around Z-139, Connally, who has been looking to his right and who heard Oswald's first shot less than a second earlier, turns his head even farther to his right and then, at Z-150, starts turning it quickly to his left and is "captured" looking "straight ahead" in the Croft photo. Then, around Z-165, he starts turning his head to his far right in a vain attempt to catch a glimpse of JFK over his right shoulder. 

Nellie, who has been looking more or less straight ahead, begins turning her head far to her right by Z-144.

Kellerman, who has been looking more or less straight ahead, begins looking to his right/down by Z-148.


What else would you like to know?
99
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Last post by Andrew Mason on July 22, 2026, 11:11:44 PM »
It’s telling that you left out Woodward’s reporting that the limo came “nearly to a halt” after the “backfire-like” missing-everything first shot.

As you and I both know, the limo didn’t slow down nearly to a halt until after JFK (and JBC) had been wounded (by CE-399) around Z-222.

The fact that she said that is an indication that she confused what occurred after Z-222 with what happened after Oswald’s “backfire-like” missing-everything shot at “Z-124.”

That, plus the fact that JFK didn’t start waving to Woodward and Co. until Z-175, is confirmation that my analysis is correct: Woodward jumbled the events surrounding the first and second shots.

But at least she was correct in saying there were three shots and that the first shot missed everything.
The problem you have with Woodward’s hazy sense that JFK was not hit on the first shot is that there are at least 25 witnesses who reported seeing him react to the first shot.  We don’t even know what she was watching and even she says that things were a little hazy.  Finally, her insistence that the second and third shots were rapid eliminates the possibility that the first shot missed.
100
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Last post by Andrew Mason on July 22, 2026, 11:05:31 PM »
In that case, you're either blind or a prevaricator.

Which is it?
I could say the same thing about you but I believe in observing civility norms.

Besides I explained in detail what I see and why I disagree. It is readily apparent that JFK turns from about an 11 o’clock direction to 10 o’clock. Jackie turns from about 10 o’clock to 9:30. Those don’t appear to be unusual at all. Nellie and JBC turn from sharp left to about forward.  A bit quicker and larger turn, but still nothing really unusual.


So why don’t you describe the changes you see between frame z139, z144 and z150 and give us your sense of where they are all facing.
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