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91
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: When-oh-when did Clint Hill leap from the Secret Service follow-up car?
« Last post by Jarrett Smith on November 30, 2025, 01:57:28 AM »
Quote from: Zeon Mason on November 29, 2025, 09:20:11 PM
Clint Hill has already STARTED to react as he is seen doing in the Altgens photo 6 at approx Z 255.

From Z223 to Z255  it’s about 1.5 secs. Therefore. Clint Hill beginning to move one of his feet off the lower step rail of the car at Z225 coincides approx with how fast a trained SS agent would  react to recognizing a loud noise at Z223 approx , as coming from a rifle shot.

From Z255 to Z313 it is about 3 more secs , and it’s in this duration of time that Hill is leaping, and his feet hit the ground and he starts to run towards the JFK limo. This is all happening just BEFORE Z313.

And most notably it’s in this next 3 second duration of time as Clint Hill leaps from the foot rail of the car and begins to run , that he heard the 2nd shot BEFORE he heard and saw the effects of  the 3rd shot at Z313.

So this is an unresolved anomaly for the WC conventional 3 shots spread over 7-8 secs because if Hill reacted to a Z 233 shot as the 1st shot he heard thus causing him to react by Z 255, then the 2nd shot he heard just  before Z313, is highly improbable to have been fired from the MC bolt action rifle , since all 3 shots were fired in only 4.8 secs.

Thus is why the WC suggested an early (missed the whole limo ) 1st shot idea ( really absurd it would seem ) if not for a possibility of the TSBD shooter accidentally squeezing trigger AS he leaned over to rest the rifle on the boxes he had arranged to serve as a firing platform.

This unaimed accidental trigger squeeze by the TSBD shooter could be plausible EXCEPT that it would is inconsistent with  the 2/3rds  of witness hearing a rapid 3 shot sequence as 1….2.3 . Furthermore, Harold’s Norman’s recollection of 3 shots fired as quickly  as 4-5 secs is coincidentally matching with Clint Hills reaction beginning at Z255 and his recollection of the last 2 shots being very close together.

Hill never left the car till after the head shot. He lied for years about it. Could you have seen him on the witness stand during a trial confronted with video evidence?

92
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on November 30, 2025, 01:49:09 AM »
Quote from: Charles Collins on November 30, 2025, 01:23:01 AM
Both JFK and JBC glanced over to their left at nearly the same point in time. To me those glances were instinctual and automatic and both of them were checking on their wives.

Good point.

If they were checking to see if their wives were okay it means their quick head turns were done consciously and therefore the shot they were reacting was about a second earlier.
93
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Charles Collins on November 30, 2025, 01:23:01 AM »
Quote from: Tom Graves on November 29, 2025, 11:50:08 PM
JFK started a quick look to his left in Z-144, one second after Oswald's first, missing-everything shot at "Z-124," by which time Secret Service Agent Glen Bennett in the passenger's side back seat of the follow-up car is already leaning over to his right to see if JFK is okay.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z144.jpg


Both JFK and JBC glanced over to their left at nearly the same point in time. To me those glances were instinctual and automatic and both of them were checking on their wives.

Question: Is there any other time while they were on Elm Street that we can see JFK looking over to his left?
94
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Why the DRE did not tell Joannides about LHO before the JFK assassination
« Last post by Gerry Down on November 30, 2025, 01:19:24 AM »
Quote from: Benjamin Cole on November 30, 2025, 12:51:34 AM

Gus Russo has written that G-2 assets contacted or monitored LHO in New Orleans also.

Who knows?

That sounds interesting. I had not known that. Is that covered in his book "Live by the Sword"?
95
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Why the DRE did not tell Joannides about LHO before the JFK assassination
« Last post by Tom Graves on November 30, 2025, 01:07:27 AM »
Quote from: Benjamin Cole on November 30, 2025, 12:51:34 AM
Who knows?

Beats the heck out of me.
96
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Why the DRE did not tell Joannides about LHO before the JFK assassination
« Last post by Benjamin Cole on November 30, 2025, 12:51:34 AM »
GD-

Interesting post.

I gather there was often tension or disagreements between US intel agencies and Cuban exiles.

Alpha 66 is a case in point, being so incorrigible that the CIA wasjed their hands of them, but US Army intel picked them up.

Not surprising that dedicated counter-revolutionaries, often engaged in kinetic terror against Castro, would seek approval for every detail from their benefactors.

Joannides doings in New Orleans remains an interesting topic.

Gus Russo has written that G-2 assets contacted or monitored LHO in New Orleans also.

Who knows?
97
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on November 29, 2025, 11:50:08 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on November 29, 2025, 11:20:12 PM
20-plus witnesses said JFK reacted visibly to the first shot.

JFK started a quick look to his left in Z-144, one second after Oswald's first, missing-everything shot at "Z-124," by which time Secret Service Agent Glen Bennett in the passenger's side back seat of the follow-up car is already leaning over to his right to see if JFK is okay.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z144.jpg
98
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Andrew Mason on November 29, 2025, 11:20:12 PM »
Quote from: Royell Storing on November 29, 2025, 09:44:54 PM
   You are supposed to "follow the evidence". NOT comprise a scenario that Makes It Fit. If legit evidence does not fit, you have a serious problem. The 1 shooter, 3 total shots from the sniper's nest, just does Not work. Never has.
I think I am following the evidence. 20+ witnesses said JFK reacted visibly to the first shot. None said he smiled and waved after it, let alone for 5 seconds after. If you don't think I am following evidence that’s fair, but you need to be specific. There is overwhelming evidence of three shots with the last two in rapid succession perceptibly closer that 1-2. That necessarily means the first shot hit JFK.

What “legit evidence” does not fit with 3 shots, 3 hits?
99
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: A Car, A Garden, And A Coupla Guys
« Last post by Tom Graves on November 29, 2025, 10:53:58 PM »
Quote from: Royell Storing on November 29, 2025, 09:36:23 PM
[...]

Dear Comrade Storing,

You're famous!

Comrade Putin sends his congratulations!

-- Tom
100
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Andrew Mason on November 29, 2025, 10:09:22 PM »
Quote from: Jack Nessan on November 29, 2025, 07:45:46 PM
Why Linda Willis, what makes her so special. Why not Jean Newman or the Chisms?
Linda Willis, Phil Willis,  Betzner, VP car and VP security car occupants, Mary Woodward provide evidence that allows one to pinpoint or at least bracket a specific location.

John Chism brackets JFK’s last right head turn and wave as being before the first shot.  He said “And just as he got just about in front of me he turned and waved at the crowd on this side of the street, the right side; at this point I heard what sounded like one shot”. He then described JFK reacting and his head leaning to the left.  That puts the first shot anywhere from about Z170 to sometime before JFK reappears at z224. Faye Chism is not clear.

Jean Newman says the first shot occurred just after JFK passed by her. She was to the east of the Stemmons sign.  Where exactly that puts the first shot depends on how she defined the point where JFK had passed her, but it dies indicate a first shot around the z200-220 mark.

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