JFK Assassination Forum

So we are just to "move along" when the Lovelady timeline with respect to his being out on the steps smoking is unexplainable? Again, the Lovelady timeline impacts the Adams & Styles timeline. And the word smiths are hoodwinking you. "LETTING TSBD employees back into the building around 1 o'clock"? How about employees that simply walked into the TSBD BEFORE 1'oclock?   Officer Luke Mooney's WC Testimony detailed his entering the TSBD 1st Floor via the Huge Gates/TSBD side door. He was then immediately approached by 2 ladies needing to go up to the 2nd floor. Mooney was inside that building only minutes after the Kill Shot. Same goes for those 2 ladies already being inside the TSBD. That 1 o'clock stuff is misdirection/hog wash. This is why I urge you to read testimony. Those that do Not know eyewitness testimony are easily led astray. Those that are also unfamiliar with the layout of Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63, are lambs being led to the slaughter. I believe you mean well, but remember that knowledge is power. Do the deep dive research. Read the eyewitness testimony and examine every single 11/22/63 image of Dealey Plaza you can find. This includes the railroad yard.

Dear Comrade Storing,

I thought you were wondering why Lovelady, wearing his distinctive "checkered" / "plaid" shirt, was standing on the TSBD steps around one o'clock as the police were letting TSBD employees back into the building.

My bad.

Regarding Adams and Styles, Brian Doyle posted on his website some time ago that he had a two-hour conversation with Barry Ernest during which Ernest told him that he'd interviewed Styles and that Styles was adamant that she did not see Lovelady or Shelley by the first-floor stairs when she and Adams got there.

Doyle also wrote, "Ernest said he interviewed Baker, and Baker told him the only person on the first floor when they got back to the elevators was a black person whom Truly stopped him from questioning ... Adams and Styles said the same thing."

If that's the case, it must have been because it took Adams and Styles a lot longer to get to the first floor than they remembered, and Baker and Truly (whom we can surmise from the Couch-Darnell clip entered the TSBD about 30 seconds after the final shot) must have been having their little out-of-view-in-the-second-floor-lunchroom-"vestibule" confrontation with Oswald when Adams and Styles finally hit the second floor . . . and were on it for maybe three seconds.

-- Tom

Well, yes, in the broad sense I suppose. I think I've made abundantly clear that I think Michael is pretty much a CT crank who plays fast and loose with the truth for reasons known only to him. In some respects, CTers as over-the-top as Michael are the truth's best friend. If I were going to invent a disinformation agent, he'd look more like Michael than Posner.

I simply meant that my involvement with the JFKA really hasn't involved obsessing over this sort of stuff in this level of detail. I can acknowledge problematical aspects of the case - the SBT, CE 399, the necktie, etc. - without coming unglued because I am satisfied the LN narrative is fundamentally correct. With all of the somewhat problematical aspects, there are simply too many unknowns and variables in all of these supposed problem areas to use dogmatic terms like "impossible" and declare everyone who disagrees with you an uninformed dolt.

I do think it's interesting to play around with possible refinements to the LN narrative - a much earlier missed shot, Andrew's non-SBT three-shot scenario, your Phantom Shot, Orr's idea of a head shot fragment causing JBC's wrist wounds, perhaps the holes in the shirt and tie actually being scalpel cuts because the exit wound was above the collar.

Exactly what occurred is always going to remain something of a Rorschach test, but the LN meta-narrative remains solid.

Where we differ is the concept of the assassination being a Rorschach test. There is an answer, it has no variables, and it is provable. I know you believe in a LN scenario. Absolutely no doubt, but it is a problem that 70% of America believes the JFKA is a conspiracy. Not because they know anything about the JFKA, but because no coherent explanation has ever been put forward. Providing no answer will not change that at all.

The three-shot scenario is the problem. No evidence supports the three-shot scenario in its entirety. Don’t just insinuate what happened but actually prove what took place and there will no longer be 70% of America believing there was a conspiracy. The HSCA and WC both stated the witnesses inflated the number of shots due to media influence. That is not a passing footnote. That is a big piece of the puzzle.

 If 70% of America believes it is a conspiracy it is because the loudest noise comes from people like M Griffith making unfounded unproven outrageous claims. Who could believe that jacketed bullets at their max velocity can come to a screeching halt after only traveling several inches inside soft tissue? Not once but twice? 70% of America can believe that is even possible? MG certainly does.

Who also look like the crackpots in this are the LN’ers. Not because they are wrong, but because the three-shot scenario is so full of inconsistencies and holes that are too easy to point out. How can you have three shots where one shot has no proof at all of ever having occurred? A shot that is alternately described as an early missed shot, a really early missed shot, a shot in the middle in three different places, and a shot after the headshot, and finally a shot way after the headshot. Again, all with no proof it even ever existed. 

The oddest part of the whole JFKA discussion is just this one faulty belief. The two opposing views both rely on a shot that never happened as the lynch pin of their respective arguments.

 

[...]

You sound like a Russian troll, Griffith.

Are you a Russian troll?

LP--

Well, I enjoyed this report from John Orr, and it may be one of the more-plausible JFKA CT's out there.

Of course, we can sub in anybody for the Dal-Tex shooter--Mafia, anti-Castro Cubans, G-2 double agents, OAS assassins and so on. As LHO confederates were never apprehended, and LHO dead by the mobbed-up Jack Ruby's hand with days...who knows?

Interesting that Sam Holland and Amos Euins both said they heard four shots.

I assume the GK smoke-and-bang show then was a diversion...

Did Euins ever say he heard three shots?

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/should-we-believe-victor-marchetti-part-one

Should We Believe Victor Marchetti?, Part One

A recent article by Jefferson Morley touted the importance of Victor Marchetti, author of The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence. In Part One of this three-part series, I show that Marchetti said that Clay Shaw was just a contact source for the CIA, not a CIA operative. Part Two will show that he part of a hoax to tie the CIA and E. Howard Hunt to the JFK assassination. Part three will examine his character.

Dear Fred,

How many typos are there in this sentence, one or two?

"Part Two will show that he part of a hoax to tie the CIA and E. Howard Hunt to the JFK assassination."

-- Tom