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91
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: William Bruce Pitzer: Not exactly a busted factoid
« Last post by John Corbett on July 29, 2026, 03:50:29 PM »
Quote from: Brian Doyle on July 29, 2026, 03:11:01 PM

Because of the general dysfunction of the research community Pitzer was not explored as deeply as he should have been...


IOW, they didn't go deep enough into the rabbit hole.

You guys never cease to amuse me.
92
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: JFK Hands Never Go To-Or Toward-His Throat
« Last post by John Corbett on July 29, 2026, 03:47:25 PM »
Quote from: Royell Storing on July 29, 2026, 02:42:35 PM
    There's a marked difference between "turning" and "turned around". Gov Connally was eventually fully facing JFK behind him. Gov Connally's upper torso had completely "turned around". Instead of facing the front bumper of the JFK Limo, he was facing the JFK Limo Trunk Lid. His upper torso had completely "turned around" as he faced JFK. You seem to believe it was easy for Gov Connally to "turned around" within the confines of his seated area. It was Not. Gov Connally had to dip his (R) shoulder in order for his upper torso to "turned around" and go face-to-face with JFK behind him. The space between Gov Connally's jump seat and the side of the JFK Limo was extremely minimal. It was difficult for Gov Connally to "turned around" to his (R) and eventually have his upper torso come Face-To-Face with JFK behind him.

Royell continues to ignore the fact JBC suddenly flipped his right arm upward at the same frame JFK's arms started upward and immediately after that he dipped and turned dramatically to his right. These combined movements were made in rapid succession immediately following JBC getting shot.
93
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Summary of Some of the Major Problems with the JFK Medical Evidence
« Last post by John Corbett on July 29, 2026, 03:42:53 PM »
Quote from: Brian Doyle on July 29, 2026, 02:33:44 PM
The overpressure that would result in the witnessed brain splatter is of such a force that the intact brain in evidence would be impossible by science...Paul O'Connor said the remaining brain in Kennedy's head was small enough to fit in the palm of a hand...It would be impossible for this remnant brain to weigh above an average brain...Bugliosi equivocated around it but never answered this...

Obviously the swapped brain had to be gotten rid of because the plotters realized it would expose the conspiracy...

Obviously, we have another unqualified amateur hack weighing in on the medical evidence citing another unqualified amateur hack who witnessed the autopsy. I could offer my own 2 cents regarding the medical evidence, but I prefer to leave those judgements to the professionals who had the training and experience to do that.
94
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: If you'll look, you'll see what I'm talking about.
« Last post by John Corbett on July 29, 2026, 03:37:59 PM »
Quote from: Tom Graves on July 29, 2026, 03:01:26 PM
George Hickey heard more than "a sound" early on.

ME: Did George Hickey say he heard a firecracker?

Perplexity AI: Yes.  Hickey’s statement says, “I heard a loud report which sounded like a firecracker,” and also that it “appeared to come from the right and rear.” He goes on to say that he later heard “two reports” that he thought were shots, so in his own account the “firecracker” description refers to the first sound, not the later pair.

. . . . . .

Regarding whether he looked "over his right shoulder" or down at the pavement after hearing the early-on firecracker-like "sound," what does the Zapruder film show?

Hickey describes the second two reports as "completely different in sound than the first report and were in such rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element between them." That doesn't sound to me like he was describing the second and third shots since those two came almost 5 seconds apart. "No time element between them" sounds like a description of a double sound produced by a single shot. If that is so, what Hickey described as the first shot would have actually been the second.  He estimated that the total elapsed time was about 5 seconds from the first shot he heard until the last. If  that is accurate, that's further indication he only heard the second and third shots and not the first. The sequence of events as he described them ar as follows:

1. Hickey first hears a shot.
2. Hickey looks to the right rear.
3. 2-3 seconds later, Hickey looks to JFK and sees his reaction to being shot.
4. Hickey hears a double sound and sees JFK was shot in the back of the head.

I can reconcile this account only if I believe he did not hear the first shot. The other way to reconcile it is that he got the sequence and timing of the events wrong.
Either is possible, but Hickey not hearing the first shot seems to be the more probable answer.
95
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / A question for Brian Doyle
« Last post by Tom Graves on July 29, 2026, 03:27:14 PM »
Dear Brian,

Are you obsessed with your JFKA conspiracy theory because you believe the CIA killed Jimi Hendrix?

-- Tom
96
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / William Bruce Pitzer: Not exactly a busted factoid
« Last post by Brian Doyle on July 29, 2026, 03:11:01 PM »


Because of the general dysfunction of the research community Pitzer was not explored as deeply as he should have been...

I'm convinced Pitzer's witnessing was one of the more bizarre coincidences of the assassination and that he accidentally filmed the covert pre-autopsy and alteration of the wounds thinking he was filming the official autopsy...If Dennis David had seen Pitzer's raw footage he probably would have realized Pitzer captured the criminal alteration of the wounds on film...To make truth even stranger than fiction, Pitzer may have not realized he filmed the illegal alteration of the wounds and may have thought he was filming the main autopsy...Or he may have realized later on what he filmed and that is what led to his enthusiasm of showing it on film...It may explain Pitzer's enthusiasm that caused him to go drag Dennis David out of the hallway and in to his office to show him...This needed to be said to Dennis David directly to get his opinion on whether that was what he witnessed...You can see the imperative by CIA to get rid of Pitzer, considering...He caught them red-handed...
97
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: If you'll look, you'll see what I'm talking about.
« Last post by Tom Graves on July 29, 2026, 03:01:26 PM »
Quote from: John Corbett on July 29, 2026, 02:47:01 PM
To the best of my knowledge, Hickey never testified before the WC. The only record of his account of the assassination is his report on the incident:

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-hicke.htm

Hickey's report does not mention looking over the side of the limo to his left. He makes no mention of looking to his left upon hearing the first shot. He says his reaction was to look over his right shoulder to a sound he perceived to have come from ground level.  By his estimate, it was 2-3 seconds later that he looked to the limo and saw JFK reacting to being shot. He then heard a double report from the headshot. This tells me two things. Like other agents, he either didn't hear or recognize the first sound as a gunshot. I continue to believe the roar of the motorcycles contributed to a muffling of the sound of the first shot so that a number of people did not recognize it. The first sound he recognized as a gunshot was actually the second shot which had struck JFK. By the time JFK was hit by the second shot, Hickey is out of the frame so we can't see how he reacted to the second shot. The double report he heard as JFK was struck in the head was likely a double sound from a single shot. Perhaps it was the sonic crack of the bullet passing over his head which he would have heard a split second before the muzzle blast. As with other witnesses, we can't be certain Hickey had perfect recall of the sequence of events, but I see nothing in Hickey's report that gives us a clue as to when the first shot was fired unless one wants to believe that JFK was hit by the first shot, which I don't and I don't think you do either.

George Hickey heard more than a generic "sound" early on.

ME: Did George Hickey say he heard a firecracker-like sound?

Perplexity AI: Yes.  Hickey’s statement says, “I heard a loud report which sounded like a firecracker,” and also that it “appeared to come from the right and rear.” He goes on to say that he later heard “two reports” that he thought were shots, so in his own account the “firecracker” description refers to the first sound, not the later pair.

. . . . . .

Regarding whether he looked "over his right shoulder" or down at the pavement after hearing the early-on firecracker-like "sound," what does the Zapruder film show?
98
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: If you'll look, you'll see what I'm talking about.
« Last post by John Corbett on July 29, 2026, 02:47:01 PM »
To the best of my knowledge, Hickey never testified before the WC. The only record of his account of the assassination is his report on the incident:

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/Sa-hicke.htm

Hickey's report does not mention looking over the side of the limo to his left. He makes no mention of looking to his left upon hearing the first shot. He says his reaction was to look over his right shoulder to a sound he perceived to have come from ground level.  By his estimate, it was 2-3 seconds later that he looked to the limo and saw JFK reacting to being shot. He then heard a double report from the headshot. This tells me two things. Like other agents, he either didn't hear or recognize the first sound as a gunshot. I continue to believe the roar of the motorcycles contributed to a muffling of the sound of the first shot so that a number of people did not recognize it. The first sound he recognized as a gunshot was actually the second shot which had struck JFK. By the time JFK was hit by the second shot, Hickey is out of the frame so we can't see how he reacted to the second shot. The double report he heard as JFK was struck in the head was likely a double sound from a single shot. Perhaps it was the sonic crack of the bullet passing over his head which he would have heard a split second before the muzzle blast. As with other witnesses, we can't be certain Hickey had perfect recall of the sequence of events, but I see nothing in Hickey's report that gives us a clue as to when the first shot was fired unless one wants to believe that JFK was hit by the first shot, which I don't and I don't think you do either.
99
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: JFK Hands Never Go To-Or Toward-His Throat
« Last post by Royell Storing on July 29, 2026, 02:42:35 PM »
Quote from: Tom Graves on July 29, 2026, 11:09:14 AM
Dear Stormtrooper Storing,

John Connally, having heard Oswald's early, missing-everything shot, turned his head quickly to his left in Z-150 and was photographed at Z-161 by Robert Croft as he was looking straight ahead.

Then in Z-164 he started turning his upper torso and head far to his right to try to catch a glimpse of JFK over his right shoulder, but by Z-175 JFK had turned his head far to his right and started waving to Mary Woodward and Co., and therefore JBC couldn't "see" (recognize) him out of the corner of his eye.

While turning back to his left around Z-190 to try to catch a glimpse of JFK over his left shoulder, JBC was struck by CE-399 before he had gotten very far.

Rhetorical question: If I'm wrong and it wasn't until Z-250 or so that JBC started trying to catch a glimpse of JFK, why, then, didn't he see him in Z-265, etc., when he was facing him?

Answer: Because he, too, had been wounded by CE-399 at approximately Z-222, and was gyrating wildly in a state of shock.

-- Tom

    There's a marked difference between "turning" and "turned around". Gov Connally was eventually fully facing JFK behind him. Gov Connally's upper torso had completely "turned around". Instead of facing the front bumper of the JFK Limo, he was facing the JFK Limo Trunk Lid. His upper torso had completely "turned around" as he faced JFK. You seem to believe it was easy for Gov Connally to "turned around" within the confines of his seated area. It was Not. Gov Connally had to dip his (R) shoulder in order for his upper torso to "turned around" and go face-to-face with JFK behind him. The space between Gov Connally's jump seat and the side of the JFK Limo was extremely minimal. It was difficult for Gov Connally to "turned around" to his (R) and eventually have his upper torso come Face-To-Face with JFK behind him.
100
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: William Bruce Pitzer: Not exactly a busted factoid
« Last post by Michael T. Griffith on July 29, 2026, 02:36:46 PM »
The clincher for me was watching Lt. Col. (Ret.) Dan Marvin's interview for the documentary The Men Who Killed Kennedy. Ted Yacucci includes this segment in his video on the Pitzer case, The Murder of Naval Commander William Pitzer. The segment is broken into two parts: the first part starts at 12:42 and ends at 15:40, and the second part runs from 18:17 to the end of the video (22:06). (From 15:41 to 18:16 there is part of an interview with Dennis David about Pitzer.)

Marvin comes across as sincere, well spoken, educated, and serious. I was especially impressed with his emotional expression of concern over what his family would think of him after he revealed his previous role as a military assassin and his expression of hope that his disclosure would be helpful to the nation. I find him to be an entirely credible witness.

I don't think any honest, objective person could watch Marvin's interview and come away believing he was "one of the worst of the hoaxers/crackpots." He was nothing of the kind. Nigel Turner's investigators verified Marvin's service, verified his stationing on Fort Bragg at the time he said he was approached by the CIA officer about killing Pitzer, and verified that there was a Captain David Vanek assigned to his unit at the time.

For an in-depth online review of the Pitzer case, I recommend Jeff Crudele's video The Mystery of William Bruce Pitzer And An Interview with his Nephew Bruce Fernandez. Much of the video is an interview with Pitzer's nephew Bruce Fernandez. Crudele displays the FBI document on Pitzer's death so you can see the source for yourself.

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