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71
I can only speak for myself but my three-and-a-half-decade participation in various online discussion groups is not in any way escapism. I find the world to be no more and no less depressing that it was when I began. I'm a believer that things are never as bad as they seem nor as good as they seem. For the most part, I have a positive outlook on the world around me while recognizing the flaws. My involvement in these ongoing discussions is because the JFKA is a fascinating story with lots of tenacles. That and I enjoy arguing whether it is the JFKA, politics, sports, etc.
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In hindsight, they should have offered better protection, like riding constantly on the Limo.
Clint Hill was at different stages of the Parade riding on the Limo, but should have been there 100% of the time. And if IIRC JFK's side was partially ridden on as well.
And Greer ASAP should have put the pedal to the metal.



JohnM

In defense of the Secret Service, JFK did not like having the agents ride on the back bumper. Apparently, he thought it was a bad visual. He never ordered them to stay off the back bumper, but he expected them to use their discretions when doing so. I'm guessing the photo of Clint Hill on the back bumper was taken somewhere on Main St when the crowds started encroaching onto the street and were getting too close for comfort. There's an overhead photo of Greer opening the car door part way to force the spectators to back up.
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Missed the target again! It was necessary to "prove" LBJ was not involved because the American people, having read enough of Agatha Christie to know about this Cui bono? stuff, were collectively saying "Hey, what about them there Russkies? What about that LBJ guy?" In fact, LBJ's concern was PREDICATED on fear that the public would be clamoring about them there Russkies (and Cubans) and demanding WW3. Substitute "pretty much everybody" for "nobody" in your second sentence and it's closer to the truth

Fair point. The reality was LBJ was correct in anticipating public skepticism about the assassination. He was wrong in believing a thorough examination would quell public skepticism which continues to this day.

I have a hard time believing that most Americans would be demanding WWIII which would result in tens of millions of deaths on both sides. Maybe hundreds of millions. I think a harsh response would have been made but I doubt LBJ would have launched a nuclear attack. Maybe our response would have triggered a counter response by the USSR, and maybe things would have spiraled out of control into WWIII, but I don't think that would be what most Americans would want.

Just yesterday I was wondering what J.D. Vance's response would be if Trump were to be assassinated in China. I was thinking that watching the very impressive military parade in front of the two leaders. I would bet that none of the rifles they were carrying had live rounds in them and I would hope that precautions were taken to ensure that they didn't. Suppose they didn't and some rogue soldier decided to shoot Trump. There was one moment when a Chinese soldier was carrying a sword within yards of Trump and Xi. I would bet that if he were to suddenly attack Trump with the sword, no one could have stopped him.
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Enquiring minds wonder why, if it was important to prove to the American people that LBJ was not involved, the WC rather pointedly avoided the issue? They could have dismissed it with a simple footnote: "Despite Cui bono? pointing rather decisively to our beloved current President, and despite the plethora of rumors suggesting he was involved, Commission staffer Sally Withers interviewed our beloved current President for more than 30 minutes and has satisfied the Commission that our beloved current President was simply too busy with the business of state to have found time to participate in an assassination. Our beloved current President is hereby exonerated and/or pardoned, as the case may be, and all Cui bono? speculation to the contrary is hereby dismissed as pernicious nonsense and/or claptrap."

The simple fact is the WC followed the evidence to a logical conclusion. Their explanation is the only one ever offered that is consistent with the entire body of evidence. People have been offering up nebulous alternate theories as to how the assassination went down, but no one has ever put together a comprehensive alternate explanation of the evidence. The evidence of Oswald's guilt is conclusive and to this day, no one has uncovered a single piece of credible evidence that anybody else was involved. After six decades of searching, I am amused by people who continue this never-ending snipe hunt.
74
Apparently, the Secret Service agents did not recognize the first sound as being a gunshot. We can speculate why that was but it's possible the roar of the motorcycles accelerating out of the sharp turn onto Elm St. partially muted the sound of the first shot. Clint Hill only remembered hearing 2 shots which tell me he either didn't hear the first shot or could not identify it as a gunshot. When he heard the second shot and saw JFK raise his arms up to his throat level, he started to race toward the limo. Altgens 6 shows us he did not take off until about two seconds after JFK was hit. That seems like a rather slow response time, but it's not surprising he would take that long to figure out what was happening. The photo also shows us the two agents on the other side of the limo were still looking back at the TSBD. Neither of them ever made a move toward the limo even after JFK was shot.

So, yes, the Secret Service response time was slow. I'm sure the agents were trained on what to do in various scenarios, but nothing can prepare one for the actual event when it happens suddenly and unexpectedly. Had the agents immediately recognized what was happening when the first shot was fired and started racing toward the limo immediately, they might have got there in time to prevent the 3rd shot from killing JFK. Had he only been hit in the upper torso, that would have been a serious wound, but he likely would have survived. For many years after the assassination, Clint Hill felt guilty that he did not react sooner than he did. I've always wondered whether the other agents on the running boards had the same feelings of guilt.

  The above, "shoulda woulda" scenario is comically uninformed. SA Clint Hill was SPECIFICALLY Assigned to protect Jackie Kennedy. Why do you think he was climbing onto the Limo Trunk DIRECTLY behind Jackie Kennedy? Clint Hill was hitting the "hard stuff" the night previous. Other SS Agents were too. Personally, I believe what you are labeling as a "slow response time", is what Joe 6 Pack calls a "hang over". The SS is held to an exceptionally high standard. Those numerous SS Agents downing the "Who Hit John" the night before, failed miserably at even coming close to this high bar.   
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  If You really believe the POTUS was under fire for a continuous 9 - 10+ Seconds, and Not a single member of the SS returned fire or so much as even left their car to try and locate/liquidate the shooter(s), then you are Indicting the SS. This 9 - 10+ seconds of active fire with Zero Proactive Response means the SS was either Totally Incompetent or Complicit. There's no 2 ways about it. Being under fire for a continuous 9 - 10+ seconds is an extremely Long Time. And then everybody just drives off? If you saw this in a B Movie you would say, "Never gonna happen".

We see here the reactions of some of the SS, after what most researchers believe was the 2nd shot, they look back towards where they heard shot/shots being fired from and I'm guessing they are aware the President has been hit.
For a start they weren't going to fire randomly into the crowd or at the buildings because that's just crazy.
Secondly, this was a sudden unique event, being fired upon while they were in moving cars, did their training include this scenario?
Thirdly, do they abandon the President and leave him potentially vulnerable to further attacks and leave local enforcement to locate the shooter?



In hindsight, they should have offered better protection, like riding constantly on the Limo.
Clint Hill was at different stages of the Parade riding on the Limo, but should have been there 100% of the time. And if IIRC JFK's side was partially ridden on as well.
And Greer ASAP should have put the pedal to the metal.



JohnM
76
Here is the full quote from the Cray book about the alleged conversation.



And this:



Question: If the claim is that WC was ordered not to look into any Soviet involvement why did Warren say there was great pressure to show there was no Soviet involvement? Wouldn't he say we were told not to look for any? Here he is saying something different; they were pressured to show - not hide - any Soviet involvement.

Full book is here: https://archive.org/details/chiefjusticebiog0000cray/page/428/mode/2up
77
    This Bogus Motorcycle Cop is headed DIRECTLY toward the intended "getaway" car. That car is parked on the Elm St Extension, directly across from the TSBD, in front of the "Wide Open" Huge Gates. "The Plan" is unfolding and falling apart simultaneously.

You have no idea where the cop is headed but keep those assumptions coming. They are most amusing.
78

    You do Not find it significant that: (1) while JFK is under fire on Elm St, (2) a car is simultaneously traveling down the Elm St Ext, (3) this same car then parks in a "NO PARKING At Any Time" zone, (4) sitting directly across from the TSBD "wide open" Huge Gates, (5) is swarmed by the DPD, and (6) then sits in this same spot for 3+ Hrs?

No, I do not. After the shooting, traffic on Houston and Elm came to a standstill. I do not find it at all suspicious that the occupant(s) of that car would realize they weren't going to be able to get out any time soon.
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    There is nothing "wild", "imaginative", or "speculative" about this.

Of course it is. You have leapt to a conclusion without considering other mundane explanations.
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These are FACTS! And the FACTS continue to mount.

It is a fact a car was there. You've offered nothing that connects it to the assassination. That is all assumption on your part.
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The DPD "swarming" of this car is a recent Image Evidence Brick added to the "Wall Of Evidence" proving this car was an intended "getaway" car.

You have a very strange concept of what constitutes proof. Assumptions are not proof and all you ever offer are your assumptions.
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And, at 45-60 minutes after the kill shot, the DPD were thinking the very same thing.

I have no idea what the DPD was thinking at any given time but there is no evidence they connected the car to the assassination. Your "discoveries" are not the least bit significant if all you can offer are your assumptions.
79
I haven’t seen the footage that shows one glove missing from Michael Jackson

 :D :D



    This Bogus Motorcycle Cop is headed DIRECTLY toward the intended "getaway" car. That car is parked on the Elm St Extension, directly across from the TSBD, in front of the "Wide Open" Huge Gates. "The Plan" is unfolding and falling apart simultaneously.
80
What reason would I have to do that?
I don't have any idea why you think this car is signficant or has any connection to the JFKA. You have never presented any evidence there is any such connection. Until you do, I don't care about that car. Your wild, imaginative speculations aren't evidence of anything.

    You do Not find it significant that: (1) while JFK is under fire on Elm St, (2) a car is simultaneously traveling down the Elm St Ext, (3) this same car then parks in a "NO PARKING At Any Time" zone, (4) sitting directly across from the TSBD "wide open" Huge Gates, (5) is swarmed by the DPD, and (6) then sits in this same spot for 3+ Hrs?   
    There is nothing "wild", "imaginative", or "speculative" about this. These are FACTS! And the FACTS continue to mount. The DPD "swarming" of this car is a recent Image Evidence Brick added to the "Wall Of Evidence" proving this car was an intended "getaway" car. And, at 45-60 minutes after the kill shot, the DPD were thinking the very same thing.
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