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71
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Zapruder disproves Brugionis 2-3 frame headshot claim
« Last post by Mitch Todd on December 27, 2025, 07:50:27 PM »
Quote from: Gerry Down on December 27, 2025, 02:47:53 PM
Dino Brugioni claimed that he had seen a different version of the Zapruder film which included a large red mist over JFKs head, which lasted 2 to 3 frames, at the time of the fatal head shot. The Zapruder film as it stands only shows a red mist for 1 frame which is frame 313. Brugioni claimed that the version of the Zapruder film we have now shows a much shorter headshot sequence than the version he saw.

However Abraham Zapruder disproves such a claim. When Zapruder sold the rights of the  Zapruder film to LIFE magazine, he stipulated that frame 313 must never be published, a stipulation that LIFE honored. The fact that Zapruder stipulated that only 1 frame must not be published, and not 2-3 frames, is prima facia evidence that the gore of the headshot did not last longer than 1 frame.
You can see the cloud of mist expand and dissipating in the next two or three frames after z313.

It's worth pointing out that the magenta, cyan, and yellow dyes used in color film fade over time, but do not do so at the same rate. Magenta takes longer to degrade than the other two colors. As the other dyes fade, the image becomes increasingly skewed towards magenta, which has the effect of reducing the contrast between magenta (and red and pink) areas and the rest of the photo. The cloud of spray was probably more distinctive in 1963 than it was 30 years later when the Z film was digitized, which would go a long way towards explaining why Dino's recollections do match what many researchers want to expect.

Then again, in 2013, Brugioni was a 90-year old man who'd just been shown copies of film frames that he hadn't seen for 50 years. I doubt it's wise to put so much faith in the detailed reliability of such old memories.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Zapruder disproves Brugionis 2-3 frame headshot claim
« Last post by Jarrett Smith on December 27, 2025, 07:09:48 PM »
Quote from: Gerry Down on December 27, 2025, 02:47:53 PM
Dino Brugioni claimed that he had seen a different version of the Zapruder film which included a large red mist over JFKs head, which lasted 2 to 3 frames, at the time of the fatal head shot. The Zapruder film as it stands only shows a red mist for 1 frame which is frame 313. Brugioni claimed that the version of the Zapruder film we have now shows a much shorter headshot sequence than the version he saw.

However Abraham Zapruder disproves such a claim. When Zapruder sold the rights of the  Zapruder film to LIFE magazine, he stipulated that frame 313 must never be published, a stipulation that LIFE honored. The fact that Zapruder stipulated that only 1 frame must not be published, and not 2-3 frames, is prima facia evidence that the gore of the headshot did not last longer than 1 frame.



There is mist in several frames' forwards then backwards.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Tom Graves on December 27, 2025, 06:46:03 PM »
Quote from: Royell Storing on December 27, 2025, 02:35:30 PM
Another "election denier" posting above. TDS rages on.

Says the most zombified of them all.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Zapruder disproves Brugionis 2-3 frame headshot claim
« Last post by Royell Storing on December 27, 2025, 04:25:58 PM »
Quote from: Gerry Down on December 27, 2025, 02:47:53 PM
Dino Brugioni claimed that he had seen a different version of the Zapruder film which included a large red mist over JFKs head, which lasted 2 to 3 frames, at the time of the fatal head shot. The Zapruder film as it stands only shows a red mist for 1 frame which is frame 313. Brugioni claimed that the version of the Zapruder film we have now shows a much shorter headshot sequence than the version he saw.

However Abraham Zapruder disproves such a claim. When Zapruder sold the rights of the  Zapruder film to LIFE magazine, he stipulated that frame 313 must never be published, a stipulation that LIFE honored. The fact that Zapruder stipulated that only 1 frame must not be published, and not 2-3 frames, is prima facia evidence that the gore of the headshot did not last longer than 1 frame.

    The above assumes that Zapruder and Brugioni were viewing the same film under the same conditions. Brugioni viewed the Z Film at the NPIC over the course of an entire evening/early morning. And Brugioni repeatedly examined the film "5 Ways To Sunday". He also assembled "briefing boards" using still frame images from the Z Film he turned inside-out that night. The Zapruder viewing conditions? Wham-Bam, gotta have it Now, "and remember to pay the lady/man". Also, there is a chasm between "prima facie" and "Opinion". 
75
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Zapruder disproves Brugionis 2-3 frame headshot claim
« Last post by Steve M. Galbraith on December 27, 2025, 04:24:14 PM »
Quote from: Gerry Down on December 27, 2025, 02:47:53 PM
Dino Brugioni claimed that he had seen a different version of the Zapruder film which included a large red mist over JFKs head, which lasted 2 to 3 frames, at the time of the fatal head shot. The Zapruder film as it stands only shows a red mist for 1 frame which is frame 313. Brugioni claimed that the version of the Zapruder film we have now shows a much shorter headshot sequence than the version he saw.

However Abraham Zapruder disproves such a claim. When Zapruder sold the rights of the  Zapruder film to LIFE magazine, he stipulated that frame 313 must never be published, a stipulation that LIFE honored. The fact that Zapruder stipulated that only 1 frame must not be published, and not 2-3 frames, is prima facia evidence that the gore of the headshot did not last longer than 1 frame.
That maybe makes sense although I think Zapruder was more upset about the Z-313 frame showing the head exploding open then the spray being shown. Perhaps both. And you can see some mist in Z-314. Or I do. I think the B&W version that Life showed doesn't show it.

Of course, there are conspiracists who say Zapruder was one of the conspirators.

The key observation for me by Brugioni was that the mist/spray that he recalls seeing came out of the TOP of or OVER JFK's head NOT the rear. No rear mist/explosion.

Here's Z-314 from Costella. Looks like mist/spray above JFK's head.


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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Zapruder disproves Brugionis 2-3 frame headshot claim
« Last post by Gerry Down on December 27, 2025, 02:47:53 PM »
Dino Brugioni claimed that he had seen a different version of the Zapruder film which included a large red mist over JFKs head, which lasted 2 to 3 frames, at the time of the fatal head shot. The Zapruder film as it stands only shows a red mist for 1 frame which is frame 313. Brugioni claimed that the version of the Zapruder film we have now shows a much shorter headshot sequence than the version he saw.

However Abraham Zapruder disproves such a claim. When Zapruder sold the rights of the  Zapruder film to LIFE magazine, he stipulated that frame 313 must never be published, a stipulation that LIFE honored. The fact that Zapruder stipulated that only 1 frame must not be published, and not 2-3 frames, is prima facia evidence that the gore of the headshot did not last longer than 1 frame. 
77
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Royell Storing on December 27, 2025, 02:35:30 PM »
Quote from: Tom Graves on December 27, 2025, 11:34:23 AM
Did the anomaly-replete JFK assassination by former Marine sharpshooter and self-described Marxist Lee Harvey Oswald -- plus fifty years of KGB disinformation about it -- help pave the way for "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin's installing Donald Trump as our nation-rending "president" in January 2017 and January 2025?

   Another "election denier" posting above. TDS rages on.
78
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Did Oswald dry-fire his rifle in New Orleans using live ammo?
« Last post by Michael T. Griffith on December 27, 2025, 12:06:36 PM »
In his internal critique of the draft of the Warren Report, WC attorney Wesley Liebeler spent considerable time addressing the questionable claims regarding the rifle and Oswald's marksmanship, including Marina's coached tale about his allegedly sighting the scope on his porch in New Orleans:

7. The statements concerning Oswald's practice with the assassination weapon are misleading. They tend to give the impression that he did more practicing than the record suggests that he did. My recollection is that there is only one specific time when he might
have practiced. We should be more precise in this area, because the Commission is going
to have its work in this area examined very closely.

8. On the top of galley page 51 we have that statement about Oswald sighting the telescopic sight at night on the porch in New Orleans. I think the support for that proposition is thin indeed. Marina Oswald first testified that she did not know what he was doing out there and then she was clearly led into the only answer that gives any support to this proposition.

9. I think the level of reaching that is going on in this whole discussion of rifle capability is merely shown by the fact that under the heading of rifle practice outside the Marine Corps appears the damning statement that "Oswald showed an interest in rifles by discussing that subject with others (in fact only one person as I remember it) and reading gun magazines". . . .

You can't leave a rifle and scope laying around in a garage underfoot for almost 3 months, just having brought it back from New Orleans in the back of a station wagon, and expect to hit anything with it, unless you take the trouble to fire it and sight the scope in. This would have been a problem that should have been dealt with in any event, and now that it turns out that there actually was a defect in the scope, it is perfectly clear that the question must be considered. The present draft leaves the Commission open to severe criticism. Furthermore, to the extent that it leaves testimony suggesting that the shots might not have been so easy out of the discussion, thereby giving only a part of the story, it is simply dishonest. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NwjxgWlJ77Y6wFFj0Vr7hbi8C9muDZOc/view?pli=1)

Indeed, it is, but that has never stopped WC apologists from repeating the myth of an easy shooting or stopped them from ignoring the critical need to sight-in the scope before the assassination, not to mention their refusal to face the fact that the ammo that hit JFK's head behaved nothing like FMJ ammo (the kind of ammo Oswald allegedly used).

When Could Oswald Have "Zeroed" (Sighted-In) the Alleged Murder Weapon?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4543.0.html

The 1967 CBS Rifle Test: More Evidence Against the Lone-Gunman Theory
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4580.0.html

What Would a Valid Lone-Gunman Rifle Test Look Like?
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,4589.msg170647.html#msg170647


79
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Fred Litwin, JFK Disinformation Agent
« Last post by Tom Graves on December 27, 2025, 11:51:35 AM »
Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on December 27, 2025, 11:44:58 AM
Thanks for finally coming clean, Fred. This is a commendable act of courage and character.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Happy New Year's to you.

Dear Comrade Griffith,

When are you going to "come clean"?

-- Tom
80
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Why do so many have a psychological need to believe the JFKA was a conspiracy?
« Last post by Tom Graves on December 27, 2025, 11:47:35 AM »
Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on December 27, 2025, 11:39:53 AM
Why do so many people have a psychological need to believe the Earth is round? Why do so many people have a psychological need to reject the idea that 9/11 was an inside job masterminded by Bush and Cheney to provide an excuse for war? Why do so many people have a psychological need to believe the Moon landings actually happened?

It is just so humorous to see lone-gunman theorists get on here and pretend that their minority view on the JFK case is the rational, enlightened view when 2/3 to 3/4 of the Western world rejects it, when we've had hard physical evidence of conspiracy for decades now, and when the last official government investigation into JFK's death concluded that he was killed by a conspiracy, that there were two shooters, and that one of the shooters fired from the grassy knoll.

FYI, most people who recognize that JFK was killed by a conspiracy originally believed the Warren Commission's Oswald-acted-alone tale.

Interesting. Revealing. Silly. So you claim there has been a massive Russian conspiracy that has carried out disinformation operations for decades to convince the American people and Western Europeans that JFK was killed by a conspiracy.

Oh, the irony.

Dear Comrade Griffith,

As Tennent H. Bagley points out in his book, Spy Wars, we humans are very good at deluding ourselves and at being deluded by others.

You seem to be a prime example.

How many times have you read psycho Garrison's On the Trail of the Assassins and watched Comrade Stone's JFK, anyway?

-- Tom
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