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71
I must say, your pretty obvious desperation to cling to Pena is losing you a lot of points in my estimation of your reasoning abilities. Do you believe Pena was an FBI informant, even though the FBI said he wasn't and DeBrueys was adamant? That Oswald was an FBI informant? That he was consorting openly with DeBrueys, a Customs agent, and an INS agent, meeting them in restaurants.

It isn't a matter of "hook-ups." Shaw was a high-profile, highly respected public figure in New Orleans. If he were to stoop to "hooks ups" with a character like Ferrie, he sure as hell wouldn't be bar-hopping with him. Your egalitarianism is duly noted, but Shaw was not crazy.

There comes a time when rational people say "OK, let it go. I wish it were true to help my theory, but this goes nowhere."

Speaking of not letting it go, Richard Burnes not only brought in Josephine Hug's husband (a radio announcer) on August 3, 1967, he brought back HER for a second bite at the apple. It didn't go any better this time. One can only wonder what Burnes thought he was accomplishing. The killer, as it were, was that both spouses said they had recently seen the man she thought was Ferrie - long after Ferrie was dead. Oops.

https://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/garr/grandjury/pdf/Hug2.pdf

I think DeBrueys admitted he called in to Pena a few times and Pena used give him information for free. Apparently it was an informal informant arrangment rather than Pena being a registered informant in the FBIs system. From Penas point of view he would view himself as an informant, but DeBrueys might not stricly view him as an informant as he would not have assigned Pena an informant number.

Apparently this informal informant arrangement is quiet common with the FBI.
72
By way of example, Josephine Hug, who worked in the Trade Mart for several years, was one of the most concerning Ferrie-Shaw "witnesses." For much of the time, she occupied an office adjoining Shaw's. She saw, she told several people, Ferrie go into Shaw's office numerous times carrying an attache case, whereupon Shaw always closed the door. EEK!

If you want to read something humorous, read the transcript of Josephine Hug's appearance before Garrison's grand jury. After Richard Burnes of Garrison's office completely bungles the interrogation, the JURORS take over and do an absolutely superb job of nailing Josephine to the wall. She finally acknowledges that OK, it wasn't Ferrie at all.

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/garr/grandjury/pdf/Hug.pdf

Several months later, Burnes took a stab at interrogating Hug's husband. That didn't go any better, to put it mildly:

https://www.jfk-online.com/hug3.html

Needless to say, Josephine Hug - once a star witness for connecting Shaw to Ferrie - was not called to testify at trial.

But not in conspiracy world, of course. Josephine actually saw a crew-cut David Ferrie go into Shaw's office 10-12 times with an attache case (WHAT WAS IN IT? MAYBE SEX TOYS!), whereupon Shaw mysteriously closed the door (SO THEY COULD HAVE SEX RIGHT THERE ON THE DESK!). Then "they" - whoever "they" are - got to her and TERRORIZED the poor woman into recanting The Truth.
 

You folks are nuts.

Ok, so this is a good example of the dismantling a witness such as Mrs Hug. But i have not seen any such dismantling like this on Pena. The objection to Pena seems to be "Well, i dont believe what he says so hes probably lying". To the best of my knowledge, Pena has not been caught out on any of his alleged lies. It seems to come down to a situation of whether one simply believes him or not, and i have not seen anything as of yet that would suggest i should not believe him.
73
He was in the Office of Security, heading the Research staff. Read his HSCA testimony as to the scope of his duties. Moreover, Shaw's attorneys were posing questions as to Shaw's possible CIA connections (and even whether the CIA had files on THEM!). We have no idea what the "inquiry" may have related to in the context of Solie's position.

In fact, the All-Seeing Eye of AI tells me this is exactly what Solie was doing - assisting in the inquiry as to whether Shaw in fact had any CIA connections as alleged. Moreover, there are many materials with Solie's name in reference to WC critics like Weisberg and Epstein and characters like Nagell. Why? Because these were potential SECURITY issues and he headed the RESEARCH staff. Indeed, pesky Mr. AI interrupted my breakfast to add, "Bruce Solie, a high-ranking official in the CIA’s Office of Security (OS) and its Security Research Staff (SRS), was interested in Jim Garrison’s investigation because it threatened to expose sensitive CIA operations and personnel."

On pages 11-17 of this PDF are organizational charts for the Office of Security. It wasn't exactly "Howard Osborn and Bruce Solie sharing a desk in the corner."

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32404556.pdf

This is my problem with characters like Blunt, whom I put in the same category as Newman. They absolutely BURY themselves (and you, their eager readers) in documents and acronyms and fill in the vast gaps with dark speculation driven by what they want to see. "Read Newman's Jesus book," advises the sage Mr. Payette. You will realize that Newman and Blunt, your heroes, are, in their own little way ... absolutely nutty.

Memo to Solie referencing Garrison's investigation = Solie is outside his assigned area = Solie is monitoring the Garrison investigation = Solie is a KGB mole.

Dear Fancy Pants Rants,

Was it "nutty" of Blunt to show to Bagley an April 1964 memo to Warren Commission attorney W. David Slawson in the margins of which Slawson had written that Solie had tried to convince him in a (now missing) letter or memo to let Nosenko testify to the Warren Commission, even though harsh (but not tortuous) interrogations of Nosenko had just begun, and even though many officers in the Soviet Russia Division and the Counterintelligence Staff doubted that Nosenko was bona fide?

Was it "nutty" of Blunt to show Bagley some CIA documents that Bagley hadn't been privy to in 1959-1960 which indicated that someone in Solie's office had arranged in advance with the Records Integration Division and the Office of Mail Logistics to have all of the incoming non-CIA cables on Oswald's upcoming defection be sent to Solie's office instead of where they would normally go -- the Soviet Russia Division?

-- Tom
74
Mental meltdown in progress?

Dear FPR,

You're projecting again.

-- Tom
75
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The Storm Drain
« Last post by Lance Payette on January 30, 2026, 01:20:11 PM »
Fred has, of course, got the wrong storm drain. The actual storm drains in question were (1) behind the picket fence, and (2) on the roof of the Dal-Tex building. There was also a storm drain in Ruth Paine's garage, although it's precise role in the JFKA has not been determined. Oswald, or rather Hidell, attempted to order a storm drain from Klein's but opted for an old Mauser with a 4X Weaver scope because the postage was $943 less.
76
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JrjkAJh0eUTDFgl8LbU7y6OAhKnnPi54/view?usp=sharing

This doc shows Solie was sticking his nose into the Garrison investigation, although Solie was in counter-intel.

I don't know know if there are other docs, or many undocumented actions by Solie.

If Solie is hunting spies and moles, he seems a little far astray. Maybe he had valid reasons, but I can't see that story line.

Perhaps Solie feared G2 assets would be exposed, which could lead to his exposure as well.

He was in the Office of Security, heading the Research staff. Read his HSCA testimony as to the scope of his duties. Moreover, Shaw's attorneys were posing questions as to Shaw's possible CIA connections (and even whether the CIA had files on THEM!). We have no idea what the "inquiry" may have related to in the context of Solie's position.

In fact, the All-Seeing Eye of AI tells me this is exactly what Solie was doing - assisting in the inquiry as to whether Shaw in fact had any CIA connections as alleged. Moreover, there are many materials with Solie's name in reference to WC critics like Weisberg and Epstein and characters like Nagell. Why? Because these were potential SECURITY issues and he headed the RESEARCH staff. Indeed, pesky Mr. AI interrupted my breakfast to add, "Bruce Solie, a high-ranking official in the CIA’s Office of Security (OS) and its Security Research Staff (SRS), was interested in Jim Garrison’s investigation because it threatened to expose sensitive CIA operations and personnel."

On pages 11-17 of this PDF are organizational charts for the Office of Security. It wasn't exactly "Howard Osborn and Bruce Solie sharing a desk in the corner."

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32404556.pdf

This is my problem with characters like Blunt, whom I put in the same category as Newman. They absolutely BURY themselves (and you, their eager readers) in documents and acronyms and fill in the vast gaps with dark speculation driven by what they want to see. "Read Newman's Jesus book," advises the sage Mr. Payette. You will realize that Newman and Blunt, your heroes, are, in their own little way ... absolutely nutty.

Memo to Solie referencing Garrison's investigation = Solie is outside his assigned area = Solie is monitoring the Garrison investigation = Solie is a KGB mole.
77
Dear Fancy Pants Rants,

It’s ironic that the only thing you and our mutual nemesis, far-left James DiEugenio (whose heroine, pro-Russia Tulsi Gabbard, was in Atlanta yesterday “monitoring” the FBI’s raid on the Fulton County Election Center), have in common is that you both cherish the “weak-and-inefficient” KGB*, the folks who from Day One have "made hay" out of the anomaly-replete JFKA to get us to tear ourselves apart, and who, with the help of said "hay," installed The Traitorous Orange Bird (rhymes with “Xxxx”) on 20 January 2017 and January 20 2025.

*Today’s SVR and FSB

-- Tom
78
LP

Yes, but there is evidence Ferrie and Shaw knew each other, from the commentary of Orest Pena, a bar owner before the HSCA.

Perhaps Pena is mistaken, or maybe he is telling the truth. 

Pena says Shaw and Ferrie would visit the bar together.

There is no word if Pena's bar was a gay bar, or gay tolerant.

As for hook-ups always hewing to hoity-toity class lines...we all know sexual desire crosses class lines the way the wind blows through the bushes.

I must say, your pretty obvious desperation to cling to Pena is losing you a lot of points in my estimation of your reasoning abilities. Do you believe Pena was an FBI informant, even though the FBI said he wasn't and DeBrueys was adamant? That Oswald was an FBI informant? That he was consorting openly with DeBrueys, a Customs agent, and an INS agent, meeting them in restaurants.

It isn't a matter of "hook-ups." Shaw was a high-profile, highly respected public figure in New Orleans. If he were to stoop to "hooks ups" with a character like Ferrie, he sure as hell wouldn't be bar-hopping with him. Your egalitarianism is duly noted, but Shaw was not crazy.

There comes a time when rational people say "OK, let it go. I wish it were true to help my theory, but this goes nowhere."

Speaking of not letting it go, Richard Burnes not only brought in Josephine Hug's husband (a radio announcer) on August 3, 1967, he brought back HER for a second bite at the apple. It didn't go any better this time. One can only wonder what Burnes thought he was accomplishing. The killer, as it were, was that both spouses said they had recently seen the man she thought was Ferrie - long after Ferrie was dead. Oops.

https://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/garr/grandjury/pdf/Hug2.pdf
79
FL--

That is a valid point, that Pena would not repeat his understanding of the Shaw-Ferrie relationship under oath.

Do you have any clue why Pena would not repeat, under oath, the rather specific statements he made regarding Shaw and Ferrie? 

What did Pena have to gain by fabricating the Ferrie-Shaw friendship?

From what I can see, Pena wasn't asked about the Ferrie Shaw relationship in his testimony. It looks like the interviewer quickly moved on to asking about Banister after asking about Shaw. Pena could have interpreted this as meaning to keep your mouth shut about it. Of course the interviewer might not have meant it that way. The interviewer at that stage might genuinely be frustrated with Penas lack of candor in his answers and just be looking to bring the testimony to a close. Though it does seem a bit odd that the interviewer did not explore the issue of the Ferrie Shaw relationship, as that would have been central to the Garrison case 10 years previously.
80
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JrjkAJh0eUTDFgl8LbU7y6OAhKnnPi54/view?usp=sharing

This doc shows Solie was sticking his nose into the Garrison investigation, although Solie was in counter-intel.

I don't know know if there are other docs, or many undocumented actions by Solie.

If Solie is hunting spies and moles, he seems a little far astray. Maybe he had valid reasons, but I can't see that story line.

Perhaps Solie feared G2 assets would be exposed, which could lead to his exposure as well.

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