JFK Assassination Forum

You asked me what I thought (my opinion). I have given you my current thoughts. I do not ask you or anyone else to agree with my opinions. If I am the only person who ever believes these things, that is fine with me. I also have evolving opinions as I go along and find more evidence. So these opinions are definitely subject to change. I am not locked into any specific scenarios. I try to keep an open mind about everything.

Regarding your latest revision of your response, I suggest that when we view the Zapruder film at normal speed (real time) we can see how fast these things actually happened. In other words, the amount of time (aka: frames) you are concerned about elapsing is relatively very little real time to form thoughts and react.

   You make an excellent point with respect to viewing the Zapruder Film at real speed. People look at the Z Film frame-by-frame and lose track of how quickly everything happened. Basically, the frame-by-frame viewer loses "context".

Because it's a scientific fact that it takes most people about a second to consciously react to an unexpected loud sound, and because photos and films, unlike human beings, don't tend to have faulty memories of sudden and traumatic events.

What scientific studies of witnesses have shown a significant decline in accuracy when witnessing sudden or traumatic events?  And how does a decline in accuracy explain not a single person recalling an early missed shot yet many all recalling a first non-missed shot with similar observations of the effects?

Mr. BELIN. On November 22, did you eat inside the building?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.

Not surprising you missed this. Givens told Shelley a different story.

Mr. SHELLEY - At one time I think I said I did but Charles Givens was the guy that was eating and he was further on over toward the west side and he was eating a sandwich so he says.
Mr. BALL - Now you say that you thought that you had seen someone had eaten fried chicken that morning?
Mr. SHELLEY - I thought I had; those colored boys are always eating chicken.
Mr. BALL - Do you think you did or do you know?
Mr. SHELLEY - I asked Charles Givens whether it was him that was eating and he said it was a sandwich.

I've edited the last part of my post, so please re-read it.

You asked me what I thought (my opinion). I have given you my current thoughts. I do not ask you or anyone else to agree with my opinions. If I am the only person who ever believes these things, that is fine with me. I also have evolving opinions as I go along and find more evidence. So these opinions are definitely subject to change. I am not locked into any specific scenarios. I try to keep an open mind about everything.

Regarding your latest revision of your response, I suggest that when we view the Zapruder film at normal speed (real time) we can see how fast these things actually happened. In other words, the amount of time (aka: frames) you are concerned about elapsing is relatively very little real time to form thoughts and react.

Classic Nessan foaming-at -the-mouth lunacy.
For anyone who wants a laugh have a look at the "3 Minute Lie" thread where you will find Jack in full rant mode.
When handling someone like Jack, the trick is to keep presenting the facts and simply wait for the meltdown.

Finding Bonnie Ray's lunch remains ON TOP of the Sniper's Nest is a truly massive headache for Lone Nuttters. There have been numerous attempts trying to explain this inconvenient fact away (we've already seen Tom's piss-weak attempt) and now we have Jack insisting there was two sets of lunch remains - one on the Sniper's Nest and one a couple of aisles over by the two-wheeler truck.
The main part of Jack's argument is Shelley's WC testimony. In it Shelley says he thought that maybe he might have told someone at some time that he thought he might have seen Charles Givens eating chicken on the 6th floor  on the day of the assassination. He says that he even asked Givens what he was eating.
However, Givens is adamant that he ate his lunch - a sandwich - outside the building:

Mr. BELIN. I want to backtrack a minute before we come to the shots. When did you eat lunch?
Mr. GIVENS. When did I eat lunch? I ate lunch after. Let’s see, no; I ate lunch before I went up there, because I stood outside and ate my sandwich standing out there.
Mr. BELIN. You ate your lunch outside?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir. Standing in front of the building.
Mr. BELIN. In front of what building?
Mr. GIVENS. Texas School Book.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ever eat any lunch inside the building?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir ; I eat inside the building all the time.
Mr. BELIN. On November 22, did you eat inside the building?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir.

What do you say to that, Jack?
And here's the two questions you avoided from my last post. So, for the second time:

Do you agree that a partially eaten piece of chicken was found on top of the Sniper's Nest?
Now...here's the big one - Do you agree that a small lunch sack was also found on top of the Sniper's Nest?


Let the meltdown commence 

It must be causing you a great deal of anguish to have your silly little conspiracy theory get stepped on just because a couple of detectives were assigned to watch over the area. Are you coming to the end of these ridiculous odd theories that are basically meaningless to start with or are there more of them?

Maybe next time, read a little more before you start posting. There are numerous older threads that have dealt with this same information. You aren’t the first, just the latest.

So, the only problem you are having is where did Givens eat his lunch. Not did he or other workers eat a piece of chicken during the day? Wow, and now you are lying on the floor throwing a temper tantrum because Shelley noticed they would do just that?

Mr. Shelley’s, Det Johnson’s, and Det. Montgomery’s testimonies have not changed. If you look back on page 8, you can reread them. Maybe this time you will understand them.