JFK Assassination Forum

If there's no snow on the ground when you go to bed and you wake up and there's snow on the ground, is it presumptuous to assume it snowed over night?

If I know I saw something. I KNOW what I saw.

you need to redo your arithmetic. A 38 inch by 8 inch bag is not 4 square feet.

The area of a 38-inch by 8-inch bag is approximately 2.11 square feet.
It is a bag and therefore has two front and back sides - Double it.

Damn good question. Another example of Frazier's less than stellar powers of observation.

I'm sure you'll find a way to distort it. Mytton is already way ahead of you.
  he just fails miserably. I doubt you could do any better.

more presumptuous garbage.

If there's no snow on the ground when you go to bed and you wake up and there's snow on the ground, is it presumptuous to assume it snowed over night?

That bag is 38in by about 8in wide - about 2 sq ft of hard paper and tape
X2 because it's a bag. How many times can you fold that on your person without looking odd? - or without making a sound?

4 Sq ft of hard paper and tape under a light jacket. Frazier saw no sign of it.
No reason at all to hide it. Buell will see it tomorrow. lol - or are we back to the unreliable witness BS when YOU choose?:

you need to redo your arithmetic. A 38 inch by 8 inch bag is not 4 square feet. It's a little over half that.

Frazier said he wore a light gray jacket to Irving Thursday night. - How did it end up in Oak Cliff on Friday?

Damn good question. Another example of Frazier's less than stellar powers of observation.

Tell me that's not funny.
A dotted outline showing where the evidence should be!
There can be no better example of the staggering incompetence of the DPD's investigation.

I'm assuming the LN narrative runs along the following lines:
Oswald waited for the 6th floor crew to break for lunch and, when he had the floor to himself, he collected the stashed rifle bag and took it to the southeast corner where he prepared the Sniper's Perch. He took the disassembled rifle from the paper bag and placed the now empty bag to one side while he assembled the rifle.

The final report of the Warren Commission is a string of lies, omissions and falsifications designed to demonstrate the pre-ordained Lone Assassin narrative. One of the most brazen lies contained in the report is the claim, made on more than one occasion, that Charles Givens was the last TSBD employee to see Oswald prior to the assassination and that he saw Oswald in the vicinity of the southeast corner of the 6th floor.
The Givens issue has been dealt with in detail by others such as Sylvia Meagher and Pat Speer and there is little doubt this belated addition to his account of events is a pack of lies told at the behest of the WC itself.
But Givens was not the last TSBD employee to see Oswald prior to the assassination - Eddie Piper was.
Piper testified that, as he broke for lunch at 12:00pm, he had a conversation with Oswald ON THE FIRST FLOOR. This makes complete sense when we take into account the collective statements of the floor-laying crew and their elevator race after breaking for lunch. Each day the floor-laying crew would race the elevators down to the first floor after breaking for lunch. The day of the assassination was no different. Charles Givens was in one elevator and the other three members of the crew were in the other. As the race got under way Oswald appeared on the fifth floor asking Givens to let him on the elevator. Givens refused, he was racing after all, so Oswald called after them to make sure to close the gates on the elevator so he could call it back up.
Far from hiding in the shadows, biding his time, Oswald was clearly looking to get down to the first floor. At some point after this Oswald makes his way down to the first floor and has his interaction with Eddie Piper.
The WC Sham brushed all this testimony under the carpet in the final report because they had to disguise a very inconvenient fact - while Oswald was on the first floor having his interaction with Eddie Piper, Bonnie Ray Williams had collected his lunch and made his way back up to the 6th floor where, according to the WC, he took up position just a few yards away from the SN to have his lunch. The importance of this fact was also glossed over in the final report.

So, the WC would have us believe that Oswald carried his disassembled rifle in the paper bag over to the southeast corner and assembled his rifle just a few yards away from Bonnie Ray without being detected!
I'm not really sure how that is possible.

First, Givens told the FBI he had seen Lee on the 1st floor @ about 11:50am reading the paper:



Bill Shelley and Eddie Piper confirmed that with the WC

William Shelly Employee, TSBD
Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963, the day the President was shot, when is the last time you saw Oswald?
Mr. SHELLEY. It was 10 or 15 minutes before 12.

Mr. BALL. Where?
Mr. SHELLEY. On the first floor over near the telephone.

Eddie Piper Janitor, TSBD
Mr. BALL. Was that the last time you saw him?
Mr. PIPER. Just at 12 o’clock.

Mr. BALL. Where were you at 12 o’clock?
Mr. PIPER. Down on the first floor.

Meanwhile, Givens told Inspector Sawyer (DPD) that he would change his story for money



Then he did:

“At about. 11:45 a.m. the. floor-laying crew used both elevators to come down from the sixth floor. The employees raced the elevators to the first floor. Givens saw Oswald standing at the gate on the fifth floor as the elevator went by. Givens testified that after reaching the first floor, “I discovered I left my cigarettes in my jacket pocket upstairs, and I took the elevator back upstairs to get my jacket with my cigarettes in it.” He saw Oswald, a clipboard in hand, walking from the southeast corner of the sixth floor toward the elevator…” [WCR page 143]

Mr. BELIN. Coming towards the elevators?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see all of his body or not?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir; he had his clipboard in his hand.

Mr. BELIN. He had his clipboard in his hand?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.

  BEWARE!  Nutters cherry pick and deny witness testimony to suit their own pretext.

JohnM

I was wondering just how long it would take before your childish nature would manifest itself.

Always desperately looking for gotcha moments, to satisfy your massive ego.
Not capable to have a normal conversation and unable to deal with evidence honestly.
That's you.

If you constantly misrepresent what people say, you've lost the argument even before you made it.

I asked you which CTs believe what you claimed and as per usual you can't answer.

Of course DE 163 was at the Paine residence on 11/21/63. If it hadn't been Oswald couldn't have worn it to the TSBD the next day.

If you constantly misrepresent what people say, you've lost the argument even before you made it.

I never said ALL CT's, I simply said CT's and since this theory is shared by yourself and Capasse, the two CT's currently debating harassing me, then I never misrepresented anyone.

Of course DE 163 was at the Paine residence on 11/21/63. If it hadn't been Oswald couldn't have worn it to the TSBD the next day.

Yep, Oswald wore it from the Depostory to Irving on the 21st, so you're right again CE163 was at the Paine residence on the 21st!

JohnM