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71
Baker testified on March 25, 1964. The amended affidavit (probably prepared by FBI agent Richard Burnett) that's in question was signed on September 23, 1964. So there was nothing to clarify at the time of his testimony.

My understanding was that the WC was closing up shop and rushing through affidavits to meet the schedule.

Jean Davison made this point: "Baker's affidavit of Sept 23, 1964 and a similar one from Truly were dated only one day before the Warren Report was officially released, and both their statements were, unlike all the other FBI documents I'm aware of, *handwritten*. IOW, they were prepared in a big hurry. Their statements are footnoted to a WR paragraph on the "rumor" that there was someone else in the lunchroom when Baker confronted Oswald. (Neither Baker or Truly had been specifically asked this in their testimony. Their 9/64 affidavits supplied the explicit answer: no one else was in the lunchroom.) I surmise that someone at the WC realized at the last minute that they needed a "cite" for this statement.""

David Von Pein has more details on it here: https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/oswald-baker-truly-and-coca-cola.html

Thanks again, Steve. I now remember reading - possibly in one of the books by one of the WC attorneys - about the circumstances under which those affidavits were prepared. Still, only in the JFKA, where nothing goes smoothly, would the "holding a coke" statement "just happen" to find its way into a draft affidavit and create havoc.

Here is an old thread (2010) from the McAdams forum on Google in which Jean Davison participates and speculates the handwritten affidavits were prepared by an FBI agent who prepared them in advance and simply included the "established myth" about the coke. DVP suggests basically the same thing. Pretty weak, it seems to me, and in any event how this damning statement appeared in the draft affidavit should have been firmly nailed down.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.assassination.jfk/c/_TSEJPDFU4c/m/LWDpqCFXF94J

It looks like DVP's site may preserve the same thread, but I find it impossible to wade through these endless "and then he said" discussions. I just happened to stumble immediately on Jean's contribution.

Dulles (of all people) somehow knew to ask Truly at the WC specifically whether Oswald was holding "a coke." When Truly said no, Dulles asked whether Oswald was holding any drink. I suppose Dulles could have been informed enough about Oswald's alibi to know he had claimed to have bought a coke.

72
Interesting how you cherry pick which parts of JBC's testimony you want to give credence to. Yes, Connally did make some misstatements of fact in his first interview. As you pointed out, he said left when he actually turned right. He also did not turn far enough to see JFK on his first turn. He didn't do that until his second turn, after he had been shot. By about Z265, he had turned almost completely around and it was only then that he could have seen JFK. Connoly's confusion in his initial interview with Martin Agronsky from his hospital be is understandable given he was in surgery a long time the day before and been heavily anesthetized. In every other telling of the event, JBC was remarkably consistent that he did not see JFK on his initial turn and in every telling, including the one from his hospital bed, he said he was not hit by the first shot. That's the part you always choose to ignore.
That isn't the most compelling proof of the first shot but it does support the other evidence of the early missed shot, most notably JBC's insistence that the second shot is the one that hit him and the Z-film which shows him turning as he described in his WC testimony.

No, no one needs your opinion on JBC’s state of mind. Nellie and Jackie state what occurred, as did all the other eyewitnesses. What did not take place was an early missed shot. That is why you are unable to prove it. 

Rosemary Willis, seriously, a child and none of the adults surrounding her knew what was happening. Just her. That is your answer?
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The real danger is if the Democrats ever gain control of the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives which they probably will. When that happens, they will end the filibuster, pack the Supreme Court, and grant statehood to DC and Puerto Rico, making it very difficult for the GOP to take back the Senate. They will then be able to ram through their radical agenda. It almost happened in 2020 but we were lucky to have a couple sane Democrats in Joe Manchin and Kristen Sinema to prevent that from happening. The only one we have now is John Fetterman and I don't think he will be enough to stop all this if the Democrats get 51 senators.

I agree 100% but all Trump can do is continue to exercise good policy judgements and hope there are still enough sane people that haven't been brainwashed by media propaganda to avoid that result.  I have no doubt whatsoever that TDS is a real condition that has resulted from either an intentional or unintentional PSYOP type effort.   The decade long obsession with Trump bashing in the media, with social media algorithms, and in Hollywood culture has impacted the minds of such people.  They are not only entirely obsessed with Trump but have a deep and very personal hatred toward him.  I didn't agree with Biden or Obama but never felt that kind of rage over politics.  It is frightening. 
74
ME: What percentage of the people who voted for Trump in 2024 now disapprove of his job performance?

GROK: Approximately 20-25% of people who voted for Trump in 2024 now give him a negative (disapprove) job approval rating.

pewresearch.org

A Trump hating poll.  Remember the pollsters that suggested Hillary would win in 2016 or the 2024 poll indicating that Trump was down double digits in Iowa?  Who cares? If his approval rating drops to zero, he is still the president and Kamala is not - and never will be.  That's what matters.  Cite all the polls that you want.  Trump will go down in history as a two-term president.   A transformational figure.
75
So how is is not reacting to being shot in the torso at z230?

It is simply imprecise. JBC described how he remembered reacting to being shot and the frame he believed he was struck at. What he didn't recall was his immediate initial reflexive and involuntary response when he flipped his injured right arm in reaction to having his wrist shattered. He wasn't even aware of his wrist injury until he came out of surgery.

JBC believed he was facing straight ahead when he was hit by the second shot and looking at the Z-film frames, he saw he reached that forward facing position at Z230, The Z-film actually shows he was hit about a half second earlier as evidenced by the jacket bulge at Z224 and the arm flip which began att Z226.
76
As stated, I find Oswald the man the most interesting aspect of the JFKA. I’ve read everything there is about him, and my sister-in-law and her husband worked in the Minsk factory at the same time. I think I “know” him about as well as he can be known.

I’m a provisional Lone Nutter but troubled by several aspects of the narrative, including the one I’ll describe here. The standard LN response is, “The evidence says he did it. It doesn’t matter who he was, why he did it, or what was going on inside his head.” Well ...

When he took a shot at Walker (we’ll assume he did), he left behind a detailed note, and Marina said he arrived home in a state of considerable agitation. Compare the JFKA.

1. I’m puzzled by his behavior at the Paine home the evening before the JFKA. He begs Marina to join him in Dallas, makes promises, and gives absolutely no clue he is contemplating the JFKA. He leaves no note.

2. He has long been convinced he is destined for a place in history and has written fairly extensively about his views, but he leaves no explanation or manifesto concerning the JFKA. There is nothing like this in his room on Beckley.

3. He shoots JFK, stashes the rifle, scurries down the stairs, hears Baker and Truly coming up – but then is utterly calm and collected when Baker confronts him and sticks a gun in his stomach.

4. He exits the TSBD, boards a bus, leaves the bus and hails a taxi – but then offers the taxi to an older woman who approaches.

5. He is grilled by Fritz, who is a legend for wheedling confessions out of suspects – but he is so cocky and unflappable that Fritz not only fails to break him but emerges speculating that he has been trained to avoid interrogation.

6. In custody, he tells his brother Robert, “Don’t believe the so-called evidence.”

7. In custody for more than 36 hours, and despite the seemingly compelling evidence against him, he never cracks or gives anything other than flat denials of his involvement in the JFKA and Tippit shooting.

I at least find this all bizarre enough to contemplate that “something more” than the LN narrative may have been going on. It seems to me inadequate to say, "The evidence says he did it and nothing else matters." Yes, Oswald was a massive liar even when lying served no purpose, but all of the above is extremely odd and gives me pause about Oswald as a Lone Nut who just snapped. The problem is, I have no real theory as to what the “something more” might be that would explain his behavior. "He was a wholly innocent patsy" would do it, of course, but that just doesn't fit the evidence unless one postulates a conspiracy so elaborate as to be comical.

Fascinating.

The evidence links Oswald to this crime beyond all doubt.  Some things can only be known to Oswald about why he committed this act.  Assassinating the president is not a rational act.  There are often not rational explanations for the whys.  Oswald was smart enough to know that committing this act would result in his arrest or death.  That was baked into the decision to do it.  The perpetrators themselves likely do not know the real motivations.  They can espouse a lot of grievances but none of that explains mass shootings or assassinations.  Some people are just wired differently.  None of that, however, casts a single iota of doubt about the fact that Oswald did it.  The evidence tells its story. 

Oswald also had no idea his life was going to end within 48 hrs of his arrest.  His confession was all that he had to bargain for his life.  If he had gone to trial, it's likely he would have followed the James Earl Ray path to confess and get a life sentence.  Then spend the rest of his life hinting that he was involved in some larger conspiracy to stay in the limelight and play conspiracy theorists.  But he wasn't going to talk that weekend.
77
J Corbett---” Coupled with the statement of JBC and the visual evidence in the Z-film that consensus becomes compelling.”

No, it does not.

You mean the first statement from JBC. The Hospital statement.

”we had just turned the corner, we heard a shot; I turned to my left—I was sitting in the jump seat. I turned to my left to look in the back seat—the President had slumped. He had said nothing. Almost simultaneously, as I turned, I was hit and I knew I had been hit badly.”   

He actually turned to his right not his left. Does that make him a “confused witness”, doesn’t matter he was staring right at a slumping JFK. Just as said and just as described by the eyewitnesses. Then there is corroboration of witnesses of Nellie, Jackie, and JBC with what is seen on the Zapruder Film over JBC yelling OH No No No.   

Interesting how you cherry pick which parts of JBC's testimony you want to give credence to. Yes, Connally did make some misstatements of fact in his first interview. As you pointed out, he said left when he actually turned right. He also did not turn far enough to see JFK on his first turn. He didn't do that until his second turn, after he had been shot. By about Z265, he had turned almost completely around and it was only then that he could have seen JFK. Connoly's confusion in his initial interview with Martin Agronsky from his hospital be is understandable given he was in surgery a long time the day before and been heavily anesthetized. In every other telling of the event, JBC was remarkably consistent that he did not see JFK on his initial turn and in every telling, including the one from his hospital bed, he said he was not hit by the first shot. That's the part you always choose to ignore.
Quote

Really a child running down a sidewalk and you interpreting her movements is your proof? Doesn’t take much to convince you. You just need to ignore the real evidence and pretend.

That isn't the most compelling proof of the first shot but it does support the other evidence of the early missed shot, most notably JBC's insistence that the second shot is the one that hit him and the Z-film which shows him turning as he described in his WC testimony.
78
Maybe because we see him reacting to being shot, not at Z230 but at Z226.
So how is is not reacting to being shot in the torso at z230?
79
Max Holland's book "The Assassination Tapes" has transcripts of a number of calls that LBJ made on the assassination. He was receiving all sorts of odd information from various sources about what happened. And not just from Hoover. The columnist Drew Pearson first told him about the Mafia plots, specifically the Roselli allegations.

He later told Ramsey Clark this:



LBJ was repeating something he heard about Castro capturing the Mafia assassins and then retaliating against JFK by using Oswald. The rest of the book has numerous accounts of LBJ promoting this type of stuff.
80
On the contrary, my opinions are based on facts. The CTs prefer to believe the myths, of which there are a great many.

One confused witness isn't much corroboration for another confused witness. I prefer to use hard evidence as corroboration for witness statements, such as the Z-film. CTs prefer to put full faith in witness accounts because there is no hard evidence to support what they want to believe.

Interesting that you cite JBC since he was adamant from the start until he died that he was hit by the second shot.

Do you have any hard evidence that supports the other witnesses you have named?
I didn't thinks so.
I cited that murder as an indication that it if Oswald had lived, it is highly unlikely he would have been executed due to the courts halting executions after 1967. Try reading for context next time.
Still no real corroboration for your witnesses.

The witnesses you have named were all people who suddenly and unexpectedly found themselves under fire. It is quite understandable that they wouldn't perfectly recall the event.
The first shot did not hit either man. JBC was quite clear about that and the Z-film corroborates that recollection. He also said that upon hearing the first shot he turned to see JFK but could not because he did not turn far enough. We see that turn beginning at Z164. He was turning back toward the front when he felt the second shot strike him in the back.
The Z-film, coupled with JBC's account, clearly shows us there was a missed shot before the two that hit the target. We can debate as to when that first shot was fired, but there is compelling evidence for that missed shot. We see the reactions of two people to that missed shot, JBC and Rosemary Willis. There is a clear consensus there were three shots and we can see when the second shot struck both JFK and JBC. By itself, the consensus is probative if not proof positive that there were three shots. Coupled with the statement of JBC and the visual evidence in the Z-film that consensus becomes compelling.

J Corbett---” Coupled with the statement of JBC and the visual evidence in the Z-film that consensus becomes compelling.”

No, it does not.

You mean the first statement from JBC. The Hospital statement.

”we had just turned the corner, we heard a shot; I turned to my left—I was sitting in the jump seat. I turned to my left to look in the back seat—the President had slumped. He had said nothing. Almost simultaneously, as I turned, I was hit and I knew I had been hit badly.”   

He actually turned to his right not his left. Does that make him a “confused witness”, doesn’t matter he was staring right at a slumping JFK. Just as said and just as described by the eyewitnesses. Then there is corroboration of witnesses of Nellie, Jackie, and JBC with what is seen on the Zapruder Film over JBC yelling OH No No No.   

Really a child running down a sidewalk and you interpreting her movements is your proof? Doesn’t take much to convince you. You just need to ignore the real evidence and pretend.
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