JFK Assassination Forum

Not really that messed up. All he would have been forgetting was looking to his left towards Nellie. And frankly I do not believe he has ever said that he did look towards her. He still could have been hit around Z223 or Z224 when he began another turn to his left.

It seems to me that startle reactions are more "self-preservation" in nature.

It seems to me that the sound pressure level of a Carcano rifle at the distance of an early first shot miss would be high enough to cause a startle reaction in most folks. The amygdala area of the brain is involved with startle reactions. The startle reactions bypass the parts of the brain involved with thought. They typically happen before any thought has time to form.

I can describe a personal experience where I jumped backwards out of a striking snake’s path before I even “knew” what was happening. Our amygdala are always on guard trying to protect us from dangers. Apparently my amygdala caught the snake’s movement out of the corner of my eye and reacted faster than I could have ever reacted otherwise. The memory I have of this is in slow-motion. After I had already jumped backwards and saw the snake striking, all of my senses seemed to be enhanced. I saw and heard the snake hit the ground after it missed my leg; and it sounded like a loud thud. Based on this experience I believe that startle reactions can vary from person to person. And that the startle reactions can be complex in nature depending on the circumstances. I think most folks would simply tense up as a reaction to an unexpected loud sound such as a rifle shot; while others might “jump out of their skins” or turn their heads. Personally I am quite sensitive to loud unexpected sounds and would probably have a visible reaction, but some others might not.

Without a soundtrack to precisely place the shots we will probably never know for sure whether the head turns were part of a startle reaction or not. It does appear to me that the first visible reactions of both JFK and JBC were at close to the same time. JFK turned to his left and JBC first turned slightly to his right and then to his left. Men in general are by nature protective of their spouses, so it seems to me that an automatic turn towards their wives before even thinking about it could be part of a startle reaction.


As far as it would go?

In the mid Z-140s?

Do you think Connally might have consciously reacted in the mid Z-140s to the sounds of the first shot?

Do you think this is what he was referring to when he said he turned to his right but did not catch JFK in the corner of his eye?

If that's what you mean, I like it because it gets us about 25 frames closer to my beloved "Z-124," but . . . . what, then, is Connally doing from Z-170 to Z-195 or so ? ? ?


First, I think we should not expect JBC to have remembered all of the details correctly. Especially because of the trauma that he went through. He was fortunate to have gotten to the hospital and gotten the care he received in such a timely manner. Otherwise he could have easily not survived the ordeal. We have many questions that can never be answered with any certainty.

Based on my experience, and my memory being in slow motion, I do believe that JBC’s memory of turning to his right to look for JFK could have been that very quick initial reaction we see in the mid Z140s. So, yes I believe this could have been a reaction to the first shot.

I am not sure what was going on in JBC’s mind during the Z170 to Z195 time frame. It does take some time for thoughts to form in our brains though. And I think the amount of time varies from person to person and slows as we age. There is also about a second of time where JBC is behind the sign and hidden from Zapruder’s camera. We don’t know what was going on with him during that time either.

This is new. Dan the Victim.

You need to calm down, Jack.
Let's deal with your wild, unsubstantiated claims first -

This is surprising. Tripe and nonsense are the basis and backbone of your standard post.
 
1] Quote what nonsense I have "made up" about Williams and his lunch.
By that I mean quote the actual words I have posted, not your raving opinion.
 
2] Quote what "fabricated tripe" I have posted.
Again, quote my actual words, not your unhinged ravings.

Dan---"The lunch remains photographed by Studebaker by the two-wheeler, at the end of the third aisle, in front of the third set of windows from Houston Street, were initially discovered by Luke Mooney ON TOP of the Sniper's Nest. Luke Mooney was the  officer who discovered the SN, the first person on that scene after the shooting.
This means two things:
1] When Bonnie Ray finished his lunch he left the remains of the lunch on top of the Sniper's Nest. Why would he do that?
2] These lunch remains were removed from the Sniper's Nest and placed by the two-wheeler truck shortly after their discovery. Who did that and why?"

What kind of a mind could even think this crap up? They knew they had to move because --Why? What a bunch of garbage.
 
 
Shelley told the WC he 'thought' that at one time he might have said to someone that Givens was eating fried chicken, but he wasn't sure. He even had to ask Givens, he was so unsure.
But Givens is clear - he left his lunch in the domino room when he arrived at work and ate his sandwich outside the building at lunch time.
That's a fact.

Huh, what? Typical Dan one dimensional thinking. Completely missed the point or deliberately trying to change the subject.

I've dealt with you before, Jack.

Really? No, you were tolerated like a simple minded child. Had to babysit you through the whole discussion.

 
You usually last at least a couple of posts before you start ranting.
So, take a breath and decide whether you want to discuss this rationally or whether you are just going full rant mode from the start.

Dan the Victim again. After babysitting you through the Styles and Adams nonsense, pretty low on tolerance.
 
Check Givens' testimony. He states he had his sandwich outside the building.
Do you agree that a partially eaten piece of chicken was found on top of the Sniper's Nest?
Now...here's the big one - Do you agree that a small lunch sack was also found on top of the Sniper's Nest?

He was stating they were always snacking. You can’t put that together? No wonder this whole thing goes right past you.
 
Let's have a rational discussion, Jack. Like two adults.   

The discussion is over. Two detectives explained their role in watching over the lunch remains. Did you miss that? Once again, I think you have been embarrassed by not knowing the whole story and posting your one dimensional thinking. The rest of this is covering up that fact.

Nope. Oswald fired at about Z105 & then at about Z218 (ie 6.1 seconds).