JFK Assassination Forum

Anything which duznt accord with my timelines iz wrong.
Some witness etc statements etc partly accord.
One hazta weigh the facts/statements. One haztahav a good BS meter. I made zero errors...

...that you know of.

Yes, one has to weigh facts and statements. The problem which you don't seem to recognize is that statements are not always entirely correct. In fact, more often than not they are at least partly wrong. Someone else could weigh the same factors and reach an entirely different conclusion and both could be plausible. What you are calling facts are simply your conclusions based on evidence. That doesn't mean they are facts. You might want to apply that BS meter to your own conclusions. On second thought, let me do that for you, step by step. What follows are some of your assertions.

"Oswald gets to the 2nd floor after 48 sec.  He stops."
What is your evidence Oswald stopped? I look at the same evidence and it seems to me Oswald never stopped but when he heard Truly and Baker coming up the stairs and immediately ducked into the lunchroom. Both your scenario and mine are plausible and neither of us can prove we are right.

"He hears Adams & Styles klomping down the stairs in a real hurry on a mission."
What is your evidence he heard them coming down the stairs or that they were even on the stairs at the same time he was? Sounds like an assumption to me.

"They pass. He comes back out. What to do next?
He can't decide.  He will be less conspicuous if he takes the front stairs, but he would then have to walk back into & throo the storage area to get his jacket in the Domino Room.
He decides to continue down the back stairs.
He makes a start but then Truly hollers up the elevator shaft, so he goes back up.
Then he hears Baker & Truly galloping up the stairs, & he retreats to the coke machine a second time.
He walks slow & cool."
How could you possibly know what Oswald thinking at the time? Let me answer that for you. You can't. You are making assumptions about things that are not in evidence. They might sound good to you, but they are anything but established facts. I have no reason to believe Oswald ever hesitated once he reached the second floor. My reading of the evidence is he immediately ducked into the lunchroom upon hearing Truly and Baker coming up the stairs and at no time came backout the same way he went in. My reading of the evidence is that as soon as Baker and Truly left, he bought a Coke and then headed for the front stairs through Mrs. Reid's office. Again, I can't prove my scenario is the correct one any more than you can.

"But just in case more dumb cops are entering along the corridor he goes via the office.
Damn, he meets Jeraldean Reid as she returns to her desk"
We both agree he exited through Reid's office. You are the only one pretending to know what he was thinking at the time which is something you couldn't possibly know.

"Ok, things aint so bad, praps he can take a chance & get his jacket from the Domino Room anyhow.
Hmmm – he can get his jacket by going out the front door & down the steps & around & entering via the Houston dock (like he does each morning), & walking 16 paces to the jacket."
What evidence do you have that Oswald was the least bit concerned about getting his jacket from the Domino Room? Another big assumption on your part with no supporting evidence. You simply assumed it. 

"So, off he goes, but he gets a little ways up Houston & he sees Officer Barnett on sentry duty at the dock, & Barnett looks vicious.
So, a quick U-turn & back down Houston.  Buell Frazier sees him walking south along Houston."
This one is a doozy. What evidence do you have that Oswald went down Houston at all after leaving via the front door? What evidence do you have that he saw Officer Barnett? What evidence do you have that Barnett looked vicious? What evidence do you have that Oswald did a U-turn? Finally, what evidence do you have that Frazier saw Oswald walking south on Houston? I just reviewed his WC testimony. Houston is mentioned 10 times. The first time he was speaking of the city of Houston. All the others were in reference to how he and Oswald arrived at the TSBD that morning. No mention of Oswald or Houston post assassination. Now if you know of another source which indicates Frazier saw Oswald on Houston following the assassination, please provide that. Otherwise we can just assume you made all of this up.

Most of what you are arguing is based on time frames for which there is no reliable source. Nobody was running a stopwatch on 11/22/63 so we don't know how long it actually took anybody to move from point A to point B. You could do ten reenactments and it still isn't going to prove anything. All the approximations can do is show what is possible, not how long it actually took anybody to move the distances they did. You also have no way of knowing how the various actions sync up with one another. We simply don't have the data to do that. You've constructed a scenario you believe fits within the established parameters. Due to the variables involved, there are hundreds of ways to construct a scenario that would fit within the parameters equally well. You are also making assumptions about Oswald's mindset at various times. It's OK to speculate as long as we don't treat our speculations as established facts.

Here's what we do know. Oswald reached the lunchroom before Truly and Baker reached the second floor landing. It is impossible to say precisely how long after the third shot it took any of the three men to reach the second floor landing. We can only approximate that. For reasons stated in my previous post, it is likely Oswald entered the lunchroom just seconds before Truly and Baker reached the second floor landing. That is my speculation but it is speculation based on what we know is true. Oswald entered the lunchroom before Truly and Baker reached the landing and did so seconds before Baker spotted him because if it had been longer, the inner door would have closed behind him and Baker could not have spotted him.

Anything which duznt accord with my timelines iz wrong.
Some witness etc statements etc partly accord.
One hazta weigh the facts/statements. One haztahav a good BS meter. I made zero errors.
I feel sure that i will never hav to change one word of my timeline.
My timeline iz the only one that works, & will work for ever.
And its not az fixed az u might think.
For example, if u convince me that Baker & Co took an extra 15 seconds to get to the lunchroom then my timeline can accommodate that by adding 15 seconds to Oswald's trajektory.
Hmmm.... i notice that i hav not explained what happened to the (empty?)(partly full) bottle of coke. When/where did Oswald dump it? Could Oswald hav gotten 5 cents for the bottle. Woz there a bottle centre near Tippitt? I will be back.

Newsflash.  I posted the incontrovertible evidence of the liquefied steel at Ground Zero on my 9/11 Science 101 thread, referenced above.

Here's the truth about MAGA Ben Cole and non-scientists on this thread.

"When the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch."

With respect to your three girls ID, how can Anyone rely on Anything you post when you are continually throwing crapola out there? Please just do the required JFK Assassination Research and stop embarrassing any others being burdened with this same surname. I look at my friend The Nutty Professor as being a JFK Assassination Thomas Edison. He is gonna continually try his own 100+ light bulb filaments in an attempt to "scientifically" solve any JFK Assassination issue at hand. You? You just throw xx out onto this forum. Again, please just do the research and broaden your JFK Assassination Foundation.

Dear Royell,

Unlike you, I've got the basics right:

Lee Harvey Oswald, a psychologically disturbed, self-described Marxist and former Marine sharpshooter, fired three shots at JFK over 10.2 seconds in the echo chamber known as Dealey Plaza. The first shot, a steeply-downward-angled one at "Z-124," missed everything and may have left a mark / divot in the asphalt very close to where JFK was at the time -- which mark is visible in a Secret Service reenactment film. Oswald's second shot, at approximately Z-222, struck JFK in the lower-neck / upper-back and, until it fell out inside Parkland Hospital, was shallowly embedded in JBC's right thigh. The only hard bone it hit in the two men was the radial bone in JBC's right wrist which it sideswiped while twirling. Oswald's third shot hit JFK in the back of the head and caused it to go downward and forward about two inches between Zapruder frames 312 and 313.

Police Officer Cop Officer Marrion Baker, after parking his motorcycle on Elm Street near the concrete "island," surveying the scene, and hearing Chief Curry say over the radio to get men onto the triple underpass, entered the TSBD about 35 seconds after the final shot, and he and Roy Truly were confronting Oswald inside the vestibule of the second-floor lunchroom when Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles, who were in the process of coming down from the fourth floor, were quickly walking from one stairwell to the other in the N-W corner of said floor.

While running to the TSBD steps, William Shelley and Billy Lovelady, who had intercepted Shelley's friend, Gloria Calvery, at-or-near the "island," were "captured" in Couch-Darnell as they were beginning to walk towards the railway yard / parking lot.

Several witnesses either saw Oswald shoot Police Officer Cop Officer J. D. Tippit or saw him running away from the scene with a pistol in his hand, and he tried to kill at least one other police officer cop officer while he was being arrested in the Texas Theater.

Case Closed.

-- Tom

So you don't think Baker could be in the same location at two different times.

Still waiting for your proof the car was a getaway car.

     Baker is pictured with Lovelady. Lovelady is standing very close to the TSBD front door. At this same time, the 2 Guys are pictured standing alongside the car. This means that it is impossible for 1 of these 2 guys to be Lovelady. And the Lovelady ID on that still frame is very solid. This man not only looks like Lovelady, but that man is in almost the same position that Lovelady is in on the Altgens Photo.
    The car being a "getaway" car traces back to the Wiegman Film NOT SHOWING a car parked alongside the Island, several feet back from the corner. This means this car was traveling down the Elm St Extension as Wiegman filmed the area around the Island. The car was traveling down the Elm Ext while shots were being fired at JFK. The car parked alongside the Island inside a clearly posted, "NO PARKING At Any Time" zone. After the 2 Guys inside the car bolted, that car sat parked there for 3+ Hrs after the kill shot. This car moving down the Elm St Ext while shots were being fired, and then parking in a "NO PARKING..." zone was well planned. I believe this "getaway" car was intended for the shooting team inside the sniper's nest.