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71
It's currently neither since there is not much going on but not sure what leftist TDS point you are trying to make.  A war is something that Congress declares.  Do you know something the rest of us do not?

Dear Herr Comrade Smith,

Everyone should have a case of Trump Disinformation Sanitizer (TDS).

-- Tom
72
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Last post by Dan O'meara on Yesterday at 12:00:08 AM »
I listed specific items your narrative doesn't even begin to explain, and your one sentence reply provides no details on how your imagined conspirators accomplished the other items. The sad part is that you're not bright enough to understand that.

That's right.
After I had neatly dealt with your challenge you started panicking and throwing in a load more items that weren't in the original challenge.
Now, getting back to the topic of this thread.
You've been challenged by me. It's a far more simple challenge.
You've pretended not to notice it because you're a bit devious like that.
I faced your challenge head on -  do you have the character and backbone to face mine?

Remember - your answer must be Common Sense, it must be Rational.
73
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The Miracle On Elm Street
« Last post by Dan O'meara on October 06, 2026, 11:52:43 PM »
I didn't take a position on this question because I have no way of knowing what Rowland saw and there is nothing the confirms or refutes what he claimed to see.

 :D :D :D
There is nothing that confirms or refutes what he claimed to see??
Are you high?
Rowland claimed to see a slender white guy with a high-powered, scoped rifle on the 6th floor of the TSBD building in the minutes before the assassination...and you don't think there is anything to confirm or refute this claim!!
There was actually, IN REALITY, a slender white guy with a high-powered, scoped rifle on the 6th floor of the TSBD building...don't you think this confirms Rowland's claim?  ;D

The things Nutters are forced to say, thanks to the deviousness of the Warren Commission, defy belief.

Quote
Again, you are reading far more into my reply than was there. I would find Rowland a bit more credible if he had bothered to alert the nearest cop to what he claimed to have seen.
It would be quite easy for Rowland to make up this story AFTER the shooting. That's why I said he would be more believable had he told his story before the shots were fired, and also much more consequential. This is a perfect illustration of what I just told MGT in another thread on how I judge witnesses. If they are corroborated by other evidence, I believe them. If they are refuted by other evidence, I don't believe them. If they are neither corroborated nor refuted, which is the case with Rowland, I can only say their account MIGHT be true.
That question assumes Oswald would have been walking around that floor at the time BRW was there.
It hasn't been established Oswald was walking around and if he was, it hasn't been established what kind of shirt he was wearing.
Not established.
You seem to have misworded your question so it is hard to know what you meant. BRW is the only one who would have known why he chose the window he did.
There is absolutely nothing Rowland said that refutes the findings of the WC.

Because you are so unfamiliar with the evidence you are unaware that Rowland did tell his story before the shots were fired. Your whole, childish argument disappears.
Rowland's observations are just a piece of the pattern of lies, manipulation, fabrication and omission the Warren Commission used to construct it's report.
Rowland's description of the man with the rifle contains key information confirmed by other eye-witnesses...information that also refutes the WC's Oswald-Did-It narrative.
But there's no point in telling you any of this.
Your undying love for the Warren Commission is creepy.
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General Discussion And Debate (Any Topic) / Re: Am I the only one...
« Last post by Richard Smith on October 06, 2026, 11:30:45 PM »
OK. Who was the leftist judge(s) and organization(s) that impeded this process?
Or is that just some CT phantom leftest ONLY group you make up - like w/ elections and pandemics?   

It took 30 years to go from the crime to her attempted execution (which they botched by allowing a woke request to have an all female team).  What do you think the holdup was?  Do you think conservative republicans were advocating for delay?  You don't think that left wingers are the ones who oppose the death penalty?

"The divide between supporters of the two major political parties shows an erosion of support for the death penalty among Independents and Democrats, but support remains constant among Republicans. According to Gallup’s October 2025 polling, 82% of Republicans favor the death penalty, compared to 47% of Independents, and just 32% of Democrats. These numbers show a 50-point difference in support between the two major political parties."
75
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Determining a Timestamp for Darnell
« Last post by John Corbett on October 06, 2026, 11:30:24 PM »
    This traces back to the timeline of the Darnell Film. It shows Officer Baker running across The Island. The timestamp for those images of Officer Baker is currently accepted as being :20 seconds after the kill shot. Prior to that, the Darnell Film's opening frame shows the driver of Camera Car #2 standing flatfooted outside of his camera car #2. This clearly indicates that all 3 camera cars had been standing still for an extended period of time. Certainly longer than the :20 second timeline attached to Officer Baker running across the Island. Wiegman jumped out of Camera Car #1, and ran down Elm St. He filmed the JFK Limo going under the Triple Underpass. With all 3 camera cars being at a dead stop, a dead stop that was so long that that the driver of Camera Car #2 vacated the vehicle, means the filming of the JFK Limo being on Elm St was far longer than the Zapruder Film leads us to believe. This means the JFK Limo did an extended "rolling stop" or a flat-out "Stop" on Elm St. Extending Officer Baker's currently accepted :20 second timestamp on the Darnell Film also places his confronting Oswald inside the 2nd Floor Lunch Room to a later point in time. There are other dominoes also falling as other timelines are properly put into place. This ALL started with the Hi Definition Opening Frames of the Darnell Film being released by the Sixth Floor Museum. I believe that the Darnell Film Hi Definition revelations also reveals why NBC has Never released their Original Darnell Film or their Original Wiegman Film.   

I can't even begin to follow the hairbrained reasoning in this post or who you have arrived at the conclusions contained in it. I might get an aneurism if he tried.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Last post by John Corbett on October 06, 2026, 11:26:39 PM »
In six words I offered up an alternative that explained 10 of your 11 pieces of evidence - "Oswald was framed using his own rifle".
How is that "vague," you buffoon?

Now then, getting back to the topic of this thread, let's have your explanation for why Givens never mentioned going back up to the 6th floor when he was grilled about his movements, and what he knew about Oswald's movements, by the FBI on the day of the assassination?
Remember, he also failed to mention this incredibly important piece of information when being grilled by Fritz earlier in the day.
Try to make your answer rational.
You are free to use more than six words.

I listed specific items your narrative doesn't even begin to explain, and your one sentence reply provides no details on how your imagined conspirators accomplished the other items. The sad part is that you're not bright enough to understand that.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The Miracle On Elm Street
« Last post by John Corbett on October 06, 2026, 11:22:52 PM »
I'm glad to see that not even you can quite swallow the WC line on this issue, which is really saying something.

I didn't take a position on this question because I have no way of knowing what Rowland saw and there is nothing the confirms or refutes what he claimed to see.
Quote

To imagine that Rowland guessed there was a slender, white male with a scoped, high-powered rifle on the 6th floor of the TSBD building moments before the assassination is too much for even you to accept.

Again, you are reading far more into my reply than was there. I would find Rowland a bit more credible if he had bothered to alert the nearest cop to what he claimed to have seen.
Quote

It is obviously the case Rowland saw this man, to suggest otherwise would have you replacing logic with the miraculous.

It would be quite easy for Rowland to make up this story AFTER the shooting. That's why I said he would be more believable had he told his story before the shots were fired, and also much more consequential. This is a perfect illustration of what I just told MTG in another thread on how I judge witnesses. If they are corroborated by other evidence, I believe them. If they are refuted by other evidence, I don't believe them. If they are neither corroborated nor refuted, which is the case with Rowland, I can only say their account MIGHT be true.
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This made the WC's narrative even more difficult to construct - how is Oswald wandering around the 6th floor, "scouting possible shooting locations", without BRW noticing?
How is that possible?

That question assumes Oswald would have been walking around that floor at the time BRW was there.
Quote

And why is the man with the rifle wearing a shirt Oswald wasn't wearing that day, and didn't have in his possessions?

It hasn't been established Oswald was walking around and if he was, it hasn't been established what kind of shirt he was wearing.
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And why is there a black man in the SN?

Not established.
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And why isn't Bonnie Ray sat looking out of the closed third set of windows?

You seem to have misworded your question so it is hard to know what you meant. BRW is the only one who would have known why he chose the window he did.
Quote

Rowland's testimony was utterly devastating for the false narrative the WC Sham was trying to create so, rather than simply accepting the testimony of this witness, they took the unprecedented step of launching an FBI investigation into a private citizen with the express purpose of finding anything they could on him in order to nullify his testimony.
Luckily for the Warren Commission, Rowland felt the need to lie about how intelligent he was and this was enough to dismiss his witness statements regarding the man with the rifle and, more to the point, the black man in SN window who stayed there until around 12:25pm (around the same time BRW went down to the 5th floor).
It was a truly devious and underhand strategy.

There is absolutely nothing Rowland said that refutes the findings of the WC.
78
Hold on. You're not calling it a war? - So, do u prefer conflict? 
 :D but not actual war, huh? - Fox News propaganda is very effective indeed.

It's currently neither since there is not much going on but not sure what leftist TDS point you are trying to make.  A war is something that Congress declares.  Do you know something the rest of us do not?
79
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Last post by Dan O'meara on October 06, 2026, 11:13:14 PM »
What a Helicopter you are. I gave you 11 pieces of evidence to explain and your vague one sentence answer that Oswald was framed using his rifle hardly explained those 11 pieces of evidence. You didn't bother to explain how the conspirators got Oswald's rifle. You didn't explain how they got Oswald to bring a long paper bag into work that day. You don't explain how Oswald's palm and finger prints got on the bag. You didn't explain why fibers matching Oswald's rifle blanket ended in the bag. You didn't explain how fibers matching Oswald's shirt end up on the butt plate of the rifle. You didn't bother to explain why Oswald's fingerprints ended up on the boxes that were stacked to form a rifle rest oriented exactly how they would be if Oswald was facing down Elm St. You didn't bother to explain how the conspirators ensured Oswald wouldn't be seen elsewhere at the time the shots were fired. Just a simpleton statement that Oswald's rifle was used to frame him, with no evidence whatsoever that somebody else had used that rifle to kill JFK. Just crazy stuff you have imagined as an excuse to deny the overwhelming evidence of Oswald's guilt.

It's easy to conjure up a vague alternative story to the one the WCR presented. The devil is in the details and you have provided none. The WCR's narrative addressed all of the 11 items and a whole lot more. If we were to give you a grade for your effort, it would be an incomplete.

In six words I offered up an alternative that explained 10 of your 11 pieces of evidence - "Oswald was framed using his own rifle".
How is that "vague," you buffoon?

Now then, getting back to the topic of this thread, let's have your explanation for why Givens never mentioned going back up to the 6th floor when he was grilled about his movements, and what he knew about Oswald's movements, by the FBI on the day of the assassination?
Remember, he also failed to mention this incredibly important piece of information when being grilled by Fritz earlier in the day.
Try to make your answer rational.
You are free to use more than six words.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The Miracle On Elm Street
« Last post by Dan O'meara on October 06, 2026, 11:03:37 PM »
Good post Dan, you almost nailed it.  But maybe this time, explain why Arnold Rowland is to be believed as a reliable witness. It is well known what he said. Point out the part he gets right. The problem is he gets the description wrong. Weren’t you able to read all of this in the post you were referring to? Didn’t you understand it?
Instead of making grand proclamations, explain how his description of the man with a rifle framed in the 29 inch tall open window, which started 14 inches off the floor, is to be believed. Specter and the WC Panel knew he was full of it. I bet they were not impressed with him wasting their time.
Sorrels didn’t buy into Arnolds description of the man with the rifle having been standing 15 feet back into the room so Arnold moved the man up to 3 feet. Even Barbara noted he changed the distance. You probably do not have an issue with Rowland using a 30 odd size six caliber rifle, do you also have a 30 odd size six caliber rifle like Rowlands? Specter was enjoying himself asking him questions knowing he made up the answers. Maybe Arnold making things up is the kindred spirit you feel for Rowland. Even Gerald Ford was making fun of him by the end of it.

With such a great witness, it is not surprising he is the poster child for your whole conspiracy story. He lived in the same fantasy world.
The best part is his physical description of the man.


Mr. ROWLAND - He was rather slender in proportion to his size. I couldn't tell for sure whether he was tall and maybe, you know heavy, say 200 pounds, but tall whether he would be and slender or whether he was medium and slender, but in proportion to his size his build was slender.

HUH
-----------
To add insult to injury he was not sure if he was a white man or negro.

Arnold doesn't realize it, because Arnold admits he was never in the TSBD. His estimate of the height of the man with the rifle would be one to two feet tall

Mr. SPECTER - Could you give us an estimate on his height?
Mr. ROWLAND - No; I couldn't. That is why I said I can't state what height he would be. He was just slender in build in proportion with his width. This is something I find myself doing all the time, comparing things in perspective.
Mr. SPECTER - Was he a white man or a Negro or what?
Mr. ROWLAND - Seemed, well, I can't state definitely
from my position because it was more or less not fully light or bright in the room. He appeared to be fair complexioned, not fair, but light complexioned, but dark hair.

According to Arnold’s description of the man standing next to the window, he was less than 43 inches tall. Actually a couple of feet short of 43 inches. It seems it would not be hard to locate him. You just had to look down. Way down.
The rifle is 42 inches and the actual window opening is 29 inches tall. Yet he can see all of the rifle and two to three feet above his head. 


Nobody was buying that man with the rifle was 15 feet back in the room so Arnold had to move him closer.

Mr. SPECTER - And what is your best recollection as to how close to the window he was standing?
Mr. ROWLAND - He wasn't next to the window, but he wasn't very far back. I would say 3 to 5 feet back from the window.
Mr. SPECTER - How much of the rifle was separated from your line of vision by the window?
Mr. ROWLAND - The entire rifle was in my view.


LHO was 69 inches tall. Again, the window opening was 29 inches reaching a maximum window opening height of 43 inches in which to see the gunman.

Mr. SPECTER - And how much of his body, if any, was in the open view where there was no window between your eyes and the object of his body?
Mr. ROWLAND - Approximately two-thirds of his body just below his waist.
Mr. SPECTER - Up to what point?
Mr. ROWLAND - Mid point between the waist and the knees, this is again in my proportion to his height that I make that judgment.
Mr. SPECTER - So from the waist, some point between his knees and his waist, you started to see hi clear in the window?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - And from that point how far up his body were you able to see without any obstruction of a window between you and him?
Mr. ROWLAND - To the top of his head. There was some space on top of that where I could see the wall behind him.
Mr. SPECTER - What is your best estimate of the space between the top of his head and the open window at the perspective you were observing?
Mr. ROWLAND - Two and a half, three feet, something on that--that is something very hard to ascertain. That would just be an estimation on my part.

No matter how badly you twist Rowland’s testimony, this is not ever going to be the smoking gun you are so desperately hoping to find.


Any new theories remotely relevant to the assassination? This one is the joke is on you, courtesy of Arnold Rowland.



Just to have it clearly on the record, Jack - Do you believe Rowland invented seeing a man with a rifle on the 6th floor of the TSBD building?
It's a yes/no thing.
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