JFK Assassination Forum

Well, at least you tried. Finally.

I have published those many times before.

You don't have JBC's shoulders turned even close to how they were at Z271. The middle sketch approximates Zapruder's perspective but in reality, Zapruder was still slightly ahead of the limo at Z271. From Zapruder's position, JBC's shoulders were rotated clockwise away from Zapruder. You have his shoulders rotated counterclockwise from square to Zapruder. You have his head rotated more than his shoulders were turned.

As I have explained, I do not have a model that duplicates a torso twist.  I am trying to get the position of his torso at the level of his fifth rib correct, so the shoulders are not turned as much as they are in z271.  But the fifth rib is about right.  You can see this yourself if you took the time to twist your torso from a forward seating position so you could see behind you.

Here is JBC at z254-255 from the front-left (Altgens No. 6):


Here is JBC as seen in the Zfilm at z254 for comparison:



And here is what he looks like in z268:



Now if you think the entry wound in his right armpit is not visible to a shooter in the SN (Oswald) you will have to explain what is blocking it. 

Keep in mind that the angle to the SN is very small at this point.  The shot from the SN looks like this:

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I've seen statements like this before, but is it really up to the individual to decide whether his or her personal sense of doubt meets the threshold of legally defined reasonable doubt?

Mark,

I think my doubts are reasonable, but unsure if they meet the legal threshold. Had I been on the jury in the Clay Shaw trial, I would have voted not guilty. I have not however read the Garrison book On the trail of the Assassins and base this verdict on the Oliver Stone movie JFK, which is entertaining but for a large part speculation and fantasy.

I had an interesting exchange with John Corbett regarding Oswald's motive, and perhaps you will be able to address the following topic, an issue which has, ever so slightly, been pushing me over to the conspiracy benches across the aisle.

Immediately after the shots and the quick departure of the Presidential limousine to Parkland Memorial Hospital a great many people, both civilians and law enforcement personnel, crossed to the north of Elm Street and entered the area behind the picket fence on the infamous grassy knoll, the parking lot and the section immediately to the west of the TSBD.

A number of these people met individuals who claimed to be agents of the US Secret Service. They showed badges. At least one of them was armed with an automatic weapon. Another (or the same) one had dirty hands and wasn't dressed as expected of a federal agent on duty. Secret Service agents, plural, were located behind the TSBD. They identified themselves as such to a DPD officer, if I remember all this correctly.

The record shows that no Secret Service agents remained at Dealey Plaza after the motorcade left. They followed the limousine to Parkland, others remained at Love Field and the Trade Mart. Any agent encountered by witnesses at the location of the assassination must therefore be an impostor. With my tinfoil hat on, I can understand that some might think that these men were in fact the assassins, or covering the retreat of them. Interesting that they were located both behind the fence and the TSBD.

What is your understanding of this episode? Am I reading too much in it?

Here is a rough 3D Sketchup drawing of the position of the two men from the front and the side showing the location of the TSBD:



Here is the model built on the Trask map of DP:



You will have to explain why you think JBC's front is facing the SN.

Well, at least you tried. Finally.

You don't have JBC's shoulders turned even close to how they were at Z271. The middle sketch approximates Zapruder's perspective but in reality, Zapruder was still slightly ahead of the limo at Z271. From Zapruder's position, JBC's shoulders were rotated clockwise away from Zapruder. You have his shoulders rotated counterclockwise from square to Zapruder. You have his head rotated more than his shoulders were turned. The only person I ever saw able to do that was Linda Blair in The Exorcist. Unpossessed people can't do that. JBC's head turn is close enough to being accurate but you aren't showing his shoulders turned nearly enough. You would need to turn his shoulders a good 30 degrees clockwise to even be in the ballpark.

At the very least, a line through JBC's shoulders was parallel to the sides of the car. Oswald was firing from a position to the right rear of the limo. He would have no angle to shoot JBC anywhere in his back, even if we give you the benefit of the doubt on all estimates of JBC's shoulder turn. Oswald would have seen the front of JBC's torso, not the back. Even with the erroneous position of JBC's shoulders, your middle drawing shows that if the line of the bullet were to continue, it would exit from the left side of JBC's chest, not the right. You can't make this work, no matter how hard you try.

You do realized that at z271 JBC's right side is "facing" toward the TSBD/Oswald.

Yes it is which makes a shot into his back impossible at that frame.

I hope you realize that the right armpit is on the right side and that with his right arm up and in front of his chest the right armpit is exposed to a shot from the direction of the TSBD/Oswald.

The front of his right armpit is exposed to Oswald. That's not where the bullet entered. The bullet entered at the rear near his right armpit. That is turned away from Oswald.

 
The right scapula is not "facing" the TSBD/Oswald although the right edge of it is exposed to a shot from that direction. It is "facing" the grassy area between Elm and Main.  In any event, he was not hit in the scapula.

When's the last time you had your eyes checked?

The back of his armpit is turned toward the grassy area between Elm and Main.
I am not sure what you mean by the direction the back of his armpit is facing.  The back of his armpit is a particular location.

So now you want to quibble about semantics. OK. I can play that game. The back of his right armpit is EXPOSED to the grassy area between Elm and Main. It is not even close to being exposed to Oswald's gun. At Z271 JFK was leaning hard left from the position he was in at the time he was shot. That would mean any shot by Oswald directed at JBC would come over JFK's right shoulder. There's no way a bullet on that trajectory is going to enter his back near his armpit.

 
It doesn't face anywhere. What matters is whether the back of his armpit was exposed to a shot from Oswald's rifle.

It doesn't. Not even close. JBC's torso would have to rotate at least 90 degrees counter clockwise to make an entry in his back near his armpit possible.

 
Not only was the back of his armpit exposed = the entire armpit was exposed.

Both sides of that equation are ludicrous.

 
If you think it wasn't, what on earth could have blocked it?

The FRONT of JBC's torso. That is what is exposed to Oswald. He could have hit the outside of JBC's right arm with a grazing shot. No way to enter anywhere on JBC's back. Why do you keep lying to yourself by telling yourself that could have happened.

I have given you the diagram showing the exit location. 

The exit location has never been in dispute. It is how an entrance wound in the BACK of JBC's could have been made by a shot from the sniper's next at Z271. That is the impossibility.

What more do you need?  It shows the bullet coming from the TSBD/Oswald direction. It shows the direction of the shoulders. It shows the location of the entrance and exit wounds. It shows the location of the forearm in relation to the exit wound.

I don't know which diagram you are referring to. The one that looks like an abstract art painting or the earlier one in which you have JBC rotated 90 degrees counter clockwise from his actual position at Z271 and even then you needed a magical deflection of the shot to have it come out the right side of JBC's chest.

You tell me I have an odd concept of human anatomy and then make a statement as ridiculous as that. Here is Z271.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z271.jpg

You do realize that at z271 JBC's right side is "facing" toward the TSBD/Oswald.  I hope you realize that the right armpit is on the right side and that with his right arm up and in front of his chest the right armpit is exposed to a shot from the direction of the TSBD/Oswald.  The right scapula is not "facing" the TSBD/Oswald although the right edge of it is exposed to a shot from that direction. It is "facing" the grassy area between Elm and Main.  In any event, he was not hit in the scapula.

The back of his armpit is turned toward the grassy area between Elm and Main.

I am not sure what you mean by the direction the back of his armpit is facing.  The back of his armpit is a particular location.  It doesn't face anywhere. What matters is whether the back of his armpit was exposed to a shot from Oswald's rifle.  Not only was the back of his armpit exposed = the entire armpit was exposed.  If you think it wasn't, what on earth could have blocked it?

It would require the most magical of all magic bullets for a shot fired from the sniper's nest to enter the back of his right armpit and exit under his right nipple. Your continued refusal to even attempt to diagram such a shot is tacit admission of that fact.You're bonkers.

I have given you the diagram showing the exit location.  What more do you need?  It shows the bullet coming from the TSBD/Oswald direction. It shows the direction of the shoulders. It shows the location of the entrance and exit wounds. It shows the location of the forearm in relation to the exit wound.