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71
All of these books will end up on history's clearance table, as they should, while the WCR will continue to stand tall as the definitive account of JFKA as it has since it was first released to the public almost 62 years ago.

I predict my question will offend the sensibilities of all LNs as well as most CTs. If so, is the reaction I predict merely coincidental, or did it serve to justify
the time and financial cost it must have expended to arrive as a problem solving strategy that has turned into a nearly completer success in its obvious goal, to confuse and make both LNs and CTs look much more ridiculous than the contents and "conclusions" of the Warren Report, arrived at during the limits of a strict, politically motivated deadline, VS following the evidence wherever it led, regardless of total monetary costs and length of time required?

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https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=2296.0
.....
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https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20298-man-of-a-million-fragments-the-true-story-of-clay-shaw-2013/?tab=comments#comment-275862
Thomas H. Purvis - Posted July 18, 2013

As was long ago indicated on this forum, the Clay Shaw/Garrison case was little more than a massive "smoke screen" that was created in order to mis-direct the attentions of those who were making attempt at resolving the issues of the assassination.

In event there is any difficulty in location of these postings, one may want to look up the terminology "Land Sharks".

Tom

P.S. John.-----Glad to see that you have re-opened the forum. With the 50th anniversary of the event soon approaching there will no doubt be many who are searching for some of the factual truths.

Many of which can be found on this forum.
Authors and film producers authored products for sale. Admitting there is persuasive new research evidence tending
to prove their entire conspiracy scenarios unreliable, is not something almost any of them are inclined to do!

Stone and DiEugenio are about the last people open to or politely gracious enough to consideration of facts of sufficient weight to seriously
call into question who Garrison and his agenda truly were. DiEugenio, for example insulates himself with a belief system
intolerant to consideration that there was nothing sinister about the provenance of the postal money order linked to the
payment for the alleged assassination rifle.

The most inflexible conspiracy cult members to considering impeaching evidence are the supporters of the book authored by John Armstrong.

Instead of reading or watching products for sale, join an active JFK Assassination forum and do all of your own research.

My research impeached author Peter Janney's claims in his book Mary's Mosaic, that Mary was assassinated by a shadowy witness who testified
against attorney Dovey Roundtree's murder trial defendant in 1965 and then vanished off the face of the earth, protected by the CIA, ever since.
As a consequence Janney had to issue a revision of his book.

I found proof Garrison and Mellen's CIA people were actually first cousin brothers of Garrison's wife, Leah, and that Shaw had been informed
by one of the two, David Baldwin, shortly after Shaw's indictment, that he was Leah Garrison's Godfather as well as her cousin.
So Shaw knew this information early and author Joan Mellen, who knew Garrison personally since 1969, proved she was kept from awareness of those
relationships, IOW, never informed of them by Garrison.,

Joan Mellen's "CIA person", David Baldwin advised his former Trade Mart boss, Clay Shaw, of the following, soon after Shaw's indictment of inconvenient facts
neither, along with Nicholas Lemann, ever disclosed on the record or obviously to Joan Mellen or to the editor of Garrison's biography and writer of the JFK, the movie screenplay, Jeremy Sklar!

Supporting citations available here,:
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=2296.0

Have you ever resented learning something new or having someone like me put it in front of your face, but not wanting to
know because it contradicts what you know you already know? It happens to me too often and I resent it and assume others are similarly unappreciative of suddenly learning unimpeachable truth.

Despite my 2016 discovery that Mildred Crumb Lyons Lemann (wife of NOLA attorney Monty Lemann) was step-mother of Garrison accused, "WDSU outside counsel" distributing CIA funds to pay lawyers representing clients obstructing the Garrison investigation, Stephen B. Lemann and his brother, Thomas B. Lemann, father of prominent, chronic Garrison critic Nicholas B. Lemann, and that Mildred C.L. Lemann also happened to have a daughter, also Mildred, married to former CIA covert agent, David G. Baldwin, described by author Joan Mellen,

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https://jfkfacts.org/provocative-prolific-joan-mellen/#comment-869223
Tom S.  April 12, 2016 at 1:25 pm

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https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen
Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK’s Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006. Tyler Weaver provided the introduction, and the interview was conducted by Rex Bradford.
…….
REX: I – I think –

JOAN: – when (Attorney Edward) Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people….

.....
In the course of attempting to determine if my new fact checked research details were actually original, I found identical details, by author of a biography of Clay Shaw, Donald H Carpenter.



https://books.google.com/books?id=9mQtAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT138&lpg=PT138&dq="joan+mellen"...


Nicholas Lemann wrote a scathing review in GQ magazine late 1991 of about to be released, JFK, the movie, followed by an appearance on the Charlie Rose TV
show to discuss and debate the reliability of that film, with its screenplay writer, Zachary Sklar, who Lemann had obviously not disclosed the conflicts of interests
involving Lemann's own key familial relationships, His uncle, Steohen Lemann was accused by Garrison as being the CIA pay master in New Orleans, His father Thomas and uncle, Stephen, were board members and part owners of the holding company that owned WDSU TV and radio....

Jesse Core just happened to be feated at a party in reaction to his wedding engagement, held at the Dallas home then owner occupied, said owner later renting
that home to Gen. Edwin Walker....

https://archive.org/details/Charlie-Rose-1991-12-30
Charlie Rose 1991-12-30 : PBS : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming …
Dec 30, 1991 · Nicholas Lemann, David Denby, and Zachary Sklar debate Oliver Stone's JFK; Art Spiegelman on his new book; actor Martin Sheen.

Does this not resemble false representation to a court?
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https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/806/603/1747985/
Russo v. Conde Nast Publications, 806 F. Supp. 603 (E.D. La. 1992)
US District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana - 806 F. Supp. 603 (E.D. La. 1992)
November 17, 1992
......
UNDISPUTED FACTUAL BACKGROUND:

In its January, 1992 issue, GQ Magazine published an article entitled "The Case Against Jim Garrison" (hereafter the "GQ article"). The GQ article was written by Nicholas B. Lemann, a New Orleans native and winner of numerous awards for his books and articles. The GQ article was a personal memoir[1] of Lemann's recollections of growing up in New Orleans during District Attorney Jim Garrison's prosecution of Clay Shaw for allegedly conspiring to assassinate JFK.

The 1991 movie release, JFK sparked renewed interest in the assassination as well as the prosecution itself of Clay Shaw. The film was purportedly based on Garrison's book, On the Trail of Assassins, and sympathetically portrayed Garrison.

The GQ article published by Lemann took a different slant, expressing his view that Shaw's prosecution was built on flimsy evidence and was a tremendous embarrassment to the city.[2] The thrust of Lemann's article was his opinion countering that expressed by Stone in his film release JFK, to wit:.....
.....Not only is the Garrison-Stone case for the greater importance of the Kennedy assassination essentially a fantasy, its strange that they feel it has to be made at all.... Garrison and Stone are trying to make it into something more: the main turning point in American history which it wasn't. Garrison, for all these years, has been engaged in a witch-hunt, not a genuine attempt to solve a crime. Like all witch hunts, his has been based on the idea that some vast, mysterious evil has society in its grip. If the sense *605 of pervasive corruption isn't there, then Garrison's mission (and, even more, his method) somehow completely loses its aura of virtue.[3]
72

I wasn’t convinced that a Carcano bullet would not ricochet off of Elm Street by the Haag demonstration.

1).  I believe that the asphalt surface of Elm Street is much harder than the piece of asphalt that the Haags used.

2).  The Haags’ demonstration used a horizontal bullet trajectory from the rifle to the asphalt. The trajectory from the sixth floor window of the TSBD to the Elm Street surface is about 35-degrees downward from horizontal and the surface of the street slopes downward about 3% also. BTW, this angle is close to the ideal angle for skipping stones across water.

3).  I believe that the backstop of the Haags’ demonstration was not tall enough to be able to show a ricochet that might have gone over the top of it.

4).  Bullets don’t just disintegrate into nothingness. They should have been able to find and recover some fragments of the bullet. But they apparently were not able to find any fragments. In my opinion, that’s reason enough to believe that the ricochet went over the top of the backstop.

As I recall, they tilted the asphalt surface to create the angle the bullet would have struck the surface at. I can't speak to the hardness of the surface they had created. You are correct that new asphalt would be a bit softer than older asphalt since the latter would get compressed over time. I think it will forever be a mystery as to what happened to that bullet. Did it disintegrate? Did it strike the tree or the traffic arm? Did it ricochet down Elm St and cross Main St and strike the curb near Tague? None of the above? I think none of these can be ruled in nor ruled out. I think it will remain an open question.
73
DOM-

This is an x-ray of Gov. JBC's wrist, as accepted by the Warren Commission. If you do not accept it, that is fine.


That is not the Commission exhibit of Connally’s wrist.  That is CE854 which is an xray of a human cadaver wrist that had been struck by a bullet at full speed.  This was prepared by Dr. Olivier of the Edgeware Army laboratory for the WC (5 H 81). That is not what Connally’s radius looked like at all and is not what Dr. Gregory described. Dan showed the actual xray.   Why not go directly to the Warren Commission exhibit? . There are several sites where you can view the exhibits.
74
Huh???

Because Oswald lived in Dallas, a likely campaign stop for JFK in the upcoming election. Because JFK's trip to Dallas was announced on September 13, nine weeks in advance of the trip.

He couldn't have shot JFK from anywhere in Dallas. He needed to shoot him from a location along the motorcade route. Nobody could have known he would be working along that route two months before the assassination.

Did you really need me to figure out that part for you?
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And why in the world would the Cubans have assumed that Oswald could only do the shooting if JFK rode by his workplace?

If they knew anything about Oswald, they would have known he couldn't drive and relied on public transportation or friends to get him around. If you're going to hire somebody to assassinate a president, these are the kinds of basic things you would want to know about your assassin.
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Of course, you are assuming a priori that Oswald was the gunman and that the Cubans would have recruited him to be the gunman, whereas the Odio evidence shows that anti-Castro Cubans were trying to frame Oswald for the assassination weeks in advance of the shooting.

It isn't an assumption that Oswald was the assassin. Anyone who is familiar with the evidence and has an ounce of common sense knows that to be a fact. I think you meet one of those qualifications.
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Also, the released HSCA Lopez-Hardway report shows that someone was impersonating Oswald in Mexico City to try to further paint him as a pro-Soviet, pro-Castro Marxist.


What does that indicate to you?
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I think you're forgetting some of Russo's arguments. For example, he presents evidence that suggests Oswald was supposed to get a ride to Cuba from Red Bird Airport in Dallas after the assassination, and that pro-Castro Cuban Quinton Machado cut a deal with Oswald to bring him to Cuba after the shooting (Live By the Sword, pp. 308-309). 

Russo did get the part about Oswald being the assassin correct. He's guessing about Oswald's plans after the assassination. He has no more knowledge than you or me about where Oswald was going after he killed JFK.
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In any case, even if Oswald had done the shooting after "only" being encouraged to do so by pro-Castro Cubans, this would still constitute a conspiracy; this would still mean he was not a "loner"; and this would make the Cubans who urged him to do the shooting "accessories before the fact"--and they would have risked being arrested, charged, and prosecuted for murder in the second degree.

There is no evidence the Cubans encouraged Oswald to kill JFK, only supposition. That is something all JFKA conspiracy theories are based on.
75
Why would the Cubans even suggest to Oswald that he assassinate JFK when they couldn't have known about the opportunity fate would deal him. Maybe they said to him,, "Hey, Lee. On the off chance that somebody JFK happens to ride past your workplace in a slow moving open top car, why don't you whack him for us."

Huh???

Because Oswald lived in Dallas, a likely campaign stop for JFK in the upcoming election. Because JFK's trip to Dallas was announced on September 13, nine weeks in advance of the trip.

And why in the world would the Cubans have assumed that Oswald could only do the shooting if JFK rode by his workplace?

Of course, you are assuming a priori that Oswald was the gunman and that the Cubans would have recruited him to be the gunman, whereas the Odio evidence shows that anti-Castro Cubans were trying to frame Oswald for the assassination weeks in advance of the shooting.

Also, the released HSCA Lopez-Hardway report shows that someone was impersonating Oswald in Mexico City to try to further paint him as a pro-Soviet, pro-Castro Marxist.

MTG: Thanks for your comments.

As I understand Russo, he thinks the Cubans encouraged LHO to assassinate JFK. Russo stops short of saying, "I have evidence of Cuban intel on-the-ground cooperation with LHO on 11.22."

I think you're forgetting some of Russo's arguments. For example, he presents evidence that suggests Oswald was supposed to get a ride to Cuba from Red Bird Airport in Dallas after the assassination, and that pro-Castro Cuban Quinton Machado cut a deal with Oswald to bring him to Cuba after the shooting (Live By the Sword, pp. 308-309).   

In any case, even if Oswald had done the shooting after "only" being encouraged to do so by pro-Castro Cubans, this would still constitute a conspiracy; this would still mean he was not a "loner"; and this would make the Cubans who urged him to do the shooting "accessories before the fact"--and they would have risked being arrested, charged, and prosecuted for murder in the second degree. 
76
I'm not going down the path of a religion debate, nor am I really pooh-poohing your beliefs. If they work for you, that's fine. My wife is actually much more conventionally devout than I am, and we get along fine AS LONG AS SHE JUST LISTENS AND SHUTS THE HELL UP!!!  :D :D :D My conversion to Christianity some 56 years ago was via a startling and wholly unexpected experience that could easily be fodder for my "Weird Tales" thread. I have spent the subsequent 56 years far deeper into theological, scientific and psychical studies than JFKA studies, which are really little more than a blip on my radar screen. I know the evidence that is out there in a way that someone who hasn't done the homework couldn't possibly know, and there is no way I could summarize it on a forum like this. Suffice it to say, I believe - and you are free to disagree - that what I call "Christianity, Inc." is nothing more than a profit-driven industry and has little or nothing to do with what Jesus was actually talking about. One real eye-opener for anyone who has never done it is to intensively study the history of the first 200 years of Christianity - it's a weird and wild picture that bears scant resemblance to the Christianity, Inc. of today. I understand that not everyone has the time or inclination to examine and question orthodox dogma, and that's fine - but this wasn't a route I could accept, which is why I lasted precisely one year at Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary before saying "Nope, not gonna pretend anymore."

I agree the prosperity preachers do so much harm and I don't give them one cent. I don't remember Jesus asking the thief for a donation for his salvation.
77

4).  Bullets don’t just disintegrate into nothingness. They should have been able to find and recover some fragments of the bullet. But they apparently were not able to find any fragments. In my opinion, that’s reason enough to believe that the ricochet went over the top of the backstop.
I agree. But I also don’t think that an inch or so of asphalt is enough to stop the bullet. Their superficial examination of the crater wasn’t enough of a search. If the Haags had xrayed the asphalt or probed deeper they may have found the bullet buried in it.
78
The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Jarrett Smith on Yesterday at 03:33:02 PM »
How do you explain JBC hearing a shot and turning to look over his right shoulder, as we see him do starting at Z164, and then about 3 seconds later get hit by the single bullet if he did not hear an earlier missed shot.

Exactly John.
79
Six Seconds in Dallas
Last Second in Dallas
JFK: Absolute Proof
No More Silence
Mafia Kingfish: Carlos Marcello and the Assassination of John F. Kennedy
The Plot to Kill the President

All of these books will end up on history's clearance table, as they should, while the WCR will continue to stand tall as the definitive account of JFKA as it has since it was first released to the public almost 62 years ago.
80
General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. And International Politics
« Last post by Michael Capasse on Yesterday at 03:00:42 PM »
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,
are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." 14th Amendment

I don't understand. You are a citizen where you were born.
How would you not be?
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