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71
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Jack Ruby kicks Oswald! And other interesting stuff.
« Last post by Steve M. Galbraith on May 09, 2026, 06:54:28 PM »
Quote from: John Mytton on May 09, 2026, 06:22:49 PM
??

Mr. LIEBELER - Tell us what happened as you took these pictures.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, as the car came in line almost--I believe it was almost in line. I was standing up here and I was shooting through a telephoto lens, which is a zoom lens and as it reached about--I imagine it was around here--I heard the first shot and I saw the President lean over and grab himself like this (holding his left chest area).
Mr. LIEBELER - Grab himself on the front of his chest?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Right---something like that. In other words, he was sitting like this and waving and then after the shot he just went like that.
Mr. LIEBELER - He was sitting upright in the car and you heard the shot and you saw the President slump over?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Leaning--leaning toward the side of Jacqueline. For a moment I thought it was, you know, like you say, "Oh, he got me," when you hear a shot--you've heard these expressions and then I saw---I don't believe the President is going to make jokes like this, but before I had a chance to organize my mind, I heard a second shot and then I saw his head opened up and the blood and everything came out and I started--I can hardly talk about it [ the witness crying].
Mr. LIEBELER - That's all right, Mr. Zapruder, would you like a drink of water? Why don't you step out and have a drink of water?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I'm sorry--I'm ashamed of myself really, but I couldn't help it.
Mr. LIEBELER - Nobody should ever be ashamed of feeling that way, Mr. Zapruder. I feel the same way myself. It was a terrible thing.
Let me go back now for just a moment and ask you how many shots you heard altogether.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I thought I heard two, it could be three, because to my estimation I thought he was hit on the second--I really don't know. The whole thing that has been transpiring--it was very upsetting and as you see I got a little better all the time and this came up again and it to me looked like the second shot, but I don't know. I never even heard a third shot.
Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't hear any shot after you saw him hit?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I heard the second--after the first shot--I saw him leaning over and after the second shot--it's possible after what I saw, you know, then I started yelling, "They killed him, they killed him," and I just felt that somebody had ganged up on him and I was still shooting the pictures until he got under the underpass--I don't even know how I did it. And then, I didn't even remember how I got down from that abutment there, but there I was, I guess, and I was walking toward--back toward my office and screaming, "They killed him, they killed him," and the people that I met on the way didn't even know what happened and they kept yelling, "What happened, what happened, what happened?" It seemed that they had heard a shot but they didn't know exactly what had happened as the car sped away, and I kept on just yelling, "They killed him, they killed him, they killed him," and finally got to my office and my secretary--I told her to call the police or the Secret Service--I don't know what she was doing, and that's about all. I was very much upset. Naturally, I couldn't imagine such a thing being done. I just went to my desk and stopped there until the police came and then we were required to get a place to develop the films. I knew I had something, I figured it might be of some help--I didn't know what.
As to what happened--I remember the police were running behind me. There were police running right behind me. Of course, they didn't realize yet, I guess, where the shot came from--that it came from that height.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/zapruder.htm



JohnM
John: Zapruder said he heard two shots. Not three. Zapruder: "I never even heard a third shot."

If there was a startle reaction after each shot why didn't he remember that third shot/noise that caused that third startle/reaction?

72
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Jack Ruby kicks Oswald! And other interesting stuff.
« Last post by Gerry Down on May 09, 2026, 06:43:40 PM »
Quote from: John Mytton on May 09, 2026, 05:57:57 PM
Thanks Jerry, I grabbed a better copy and I think you're right.
It seems like the car lightly strikes Ruby? and his left leg stumbles as it moves forward but regardless it looks like Oswald's head is jerked upwards before Ruby's left shoe gets close to Oswald and maybe makes contact? Anyway, it's way, way past my bedtime and I'll have another look later.

Here's some more better quality GIF's of Ruby's full figure of what should be regular speed but seems slightly sped up? and half speed. And there's also the same again but just focused on the relevant part.






Full frame.



JohnM

From these GIFS, its clear Rubys left foot stays in contact with the ground almost all of the time.
73
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Jack Ruby kicks Oswald! And other interesting stuff.
« Last post by Zeon Mason on May 09, 2026, 06:26:36 PM »
To do the   shooting in front of the cameras, Ruby must have really been upset.

Why did Ruby go  before cameras and say it’s people in high places and we will never know the truth?

He changed it  later to the “He was just angry” story.  So if his original statement was a ploy to gain some plea bargain leverage, he sure screwed himself it seems.

UNLESS… Ruby was promised a deal in exchange for changing his statement , after which they killed him in prison with an injection and created false documents that he had cancer and died of pneumonia.

I hate being suspicious but somebody has to keep up the CT side of the spectrum on this forum since most of them are over at that other forum.
74
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Jack Ruby kicks Oswald! And other interesting stuff.
« Last post by John Mytton on May 09, 2026, 06:22:49 PM »
Quote from: Steve M. Galbraith on May 09, 2026, 06:08:56 PM
John: Just one on the startle response.

Wouldn't Zapruder have remembered the *cause* of those three responses? He said he heard only two shots not three. All of us have been startled by some loud noise: a clap of thunder outside, the backfire of a car, someone dropping and breaking a plate. We jumped the sound. And we remember why we jumped and that something that caused it. But Zapruder only remembers two *causes* for his three jumps?

Granted, if we combine the startle response of the film plus the other evidence we can make a reasonable argument for three shots. And he filmed them all. But there's a gap when it comes to Zapruder.

??

Mr. LIEBELER - Tell us what happened as you took these pictures.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, as the car came in line almost--I believe it was almost in line. I was standing up here and I was shooting through a telephoto lens, which is a zoom lens and as it reached about--I imagine it was around here--I heard the first shot and I saw the President lean over and grab himself like this (holding his left chest area).
Mr. LIEBELER - Grab himself on the front of his chest?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Right---something like that. In other words, he was sitting like this and waving and then after the shot he just went like that.
Mr. LIEBELER - He was sitting upright in the car and you heard the shot and you saw the President slump over?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Leaning--leaning toward the side of Jacqueline. For a moment I thought it was, you know, like you say, "Oh, he got me," when you hear a shot--you've heard these expressions and then I saw---I don't believe the President is going to make jokes like this, but before I had a chance to organize my mind, I heard a second shot and then I saw his head opened up and the blood and everything came out and I started--I can hardly talk about it [ the witness crying].
Mr. LIEBELER - That's all right, Mr. Zapruder, would you like a drink of water? Why don't you step out and have a drink of water?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I'm sorry--I'm ashamed of myself really, but I couldn't help it.
Mr. LIEBELER - Nobody should ever be ashamed of feeling that way, Mr. Zapruder. I feel the same way myself. It was a terrible thing.
Let me go back now for just a moment and ask you how many shots you heard altogether.
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I thought I heard two, it could be three, because to my estimation I thought he was hit on the second--I really don't know. The whole thing that has been transpiring--it was very upsetting and as you see I got a little better all the time and this came up again and it to me looked like the second shot, but I don't know. I never even heard a third shot.
Mr. LIEBELER - You didn't hear any shot after you saw him hit?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - I heard the second--after the first shot--I saw him leaning over and after the second shot--it's possible after what I saw, you know, then I started yelling, "They killed him, they killed him," and I just felt that somebody had ganged up on him and I was still shooting the pictures until he got under the underpass--I don't even know how I did it. And then, I didn't even remember how I got down from that abutment there, but there I was, I guess, and I was walking toward--back toward my office and screaming, "They killed him, they killed him," and the people that I met on the way didn't even know what happened and they kept yelling, "What happened, what happened, what happened?" It seemed that they had heard a shot but they didn't know exactly what had happened as the car sped away, and I kept on just yelling, "They killed him, they killed him, they killed him," and finally got to my office and my secretary--I told her to call the police or the Secret Service--I don't know what she was doing, and that's about all. I was very much upset. Naturally, I couldn't imagine such a thing being done. I just went to my desk and stopped there until the police came and then we were required to get a place to develop the films. I knew I had something, I figured it might be of some help--I didn't know what.
As to what happened--I remember the police were running behind me. There were police running right behind me. Of course, they didn't realize yet, I guess, where the shot came from--that it came from that height.
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/zapruder.htm



JohnM
75
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Jack Ruby kicks Oswald! And other interesting stuff.
« Last post by Steve M. Galbraith on May 09, 2026, 06:08:56 PM »
John: Just one on the startle response.

Wouldn't Zapruder have remembered the *cause* of those three responses? He said he heard only two shots not three. All of us have been startled by some loud noise: a clap of thunder outside, the backfire of a car, someone dropping and breaking a plate. We jumped the sound. And we remember why we jumped and that something that caused it. But Zapruder only remembers two *causes* for his three jumps?

Granted, if we combine the startle response of the film plus the other evidence we can make a reasonable argument for three shots. And he filmed them all. But there's a gap when it comes to Zapruder.
76
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Jack Ruby kicks Oswald! And other interesting stuff.
« Last post by John Mytton on May 09, 2026, 05:57:57 PM »
Quote from: Gerry Down on May 09, 2026, 03:54:11 PM
It's worth noting that Owald's hand was handcuffed to Levealle. So if Levealle lifted up his arm, in an effort to tackle Ruby, it would have dragged Oswald's arm and torso upwards.

Thanks Jerry, I grabbed a better copy and I think you're right.
It seems like the car lightly strikes Ruby? and his left leg stumbles as it moves forward but regardless it looks like Oswald's head is jerked upwards before Ruby's left shoe gets close to Oswald and maybe makes contact? Anyway, it's way, way past my bedtime and I'll have another look later.

Here's some more better quality GIF's of Ruby's full figure of what should be regular speed but seems slightly sped up? and half speed. And there's also the same again but just focused on the relevant part.






Full frame.



JohnM

77
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Hypothetical question
« Last post by Sean Kneringer on May 09, 2026, 05:26:39 PM »
I think he was jealous of Clint Hill's fame/notoriety and decided to make his role on that fateful day larger than it really was.
78
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Released Videos From The Pentagon's First Batch Of UFO Files
« Last post by Royell Storing on May 09, 2026, 04:30:36 PM »

  What is the closest "final frontier"? The OCEAN BOTTOM. The area off the San Diego/Calif coast has been a hotbed for this strange "craft" activity. These crafts are Not traveling light years to then just cruise around the Earth. They are here, have been here, and use Earth to extract the mineral(s) they need. These crafts that are doing all of that crazy sh*t are not being fueled by Chevron Unleaded.

    History Channel's,"The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch", Season 7 debuts May 19. The US Govt/Robert Bigelow was using that Mesa in the same vein that we saw on "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind". Underground, there is also a "subway" type of entry/exit. When these clowns are looking into the sky and firing rockets up there, it's time to turn the channel. Whatever remains from that Skinwalker Ranch time period is inside that Mesa and underground.   
79
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Hypothetical question
« Last post by John Corbett on May 09, 2026, 04:15:42 PM »
I am skeptical of Agent Landis' claim, 60 years after the fact, that he found the bullet and place it on a gurney. That seems like an odd thing to do. Surely he would have known that was a key piece of evidence and needed to be preserved. I know he probably wasn't an experienced crime scene investigator but even a layman would understand how important that was. Why did he wait 60 years to claim this? I don't think he lied about it. I think he just has a false memory of it.
80
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Jack Ruby kicks Oswald! And other interesting stuff.
« Last post by Gerry Down on May 09, 2026, 03:54:11 PM »
It's worth noting that Owald's hand was handcuffed to Levealle. So if Levealle lifted up his arm, in an effort to tackle Ruby, it would have dragged Oswald's arm and torso upwards.
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