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61
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Hypothetical question
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 01:08:24 AM »
Quote from: Charles Collins on Yesterday at 12:18:24 AM

I could be wrong, but I don’t think there is any other photographic evidence that seems to clearly show a “back and to the left” JFK head movement. So, perhaps we might have avoided that controversy.

It is a myth that JFK went back and to the left. He was already leaning to his left, toward Jackie, when the headshot struck. From that left leaning position, he went straight back. When he hit the seatback, he was still on the far right side of the seat. His left lean gave the illusion he went back and to the left.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Hypothetical question
« Last post by Charles Collins on Yesterday at 12:18:24 AM »
Quote from: John Corbett on May 02, 2026, 04:17:45 PM
What if Zapruder hadn't filmed the assassination?

How would it have affected our knowledge of the assassination? Would the Single Bullet Theory have ever been developed? I have my doubts although there would be a dilemma for the finding that there were 3 shot and 3 hits, 2 on  JFK and 1 on JBC. Why were there only 2 bullets recovered if three had struck the victims. Maybe somebody would have developed the theory but it would be much more difficult to support.

Of course other people were filming but none showed the shooting from start to finish and none had the vantage point Zapruder did.

What other mysteries would we now be facing if not for Zapruder?


I could be wrong, but I don’t think there is any other photographic evidence that seems to clearly show a “back and to the left” JFK head movement. So, perhaps we might have avoided that controversy.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Last post by John Corbett on May 02, 2026, 11:47:42 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on May 02, 2026, 09:45:50 PM
I agree it is pointless if you can’t see that with your torso twisted and shoulders turned 90 degrees to the hips, the lateral edge of the scapula, middle of the right armpit and a point just below and medial to the right nipple align and form a left-to-right path that does not pass through the pleural cavity and right lung.

Why not at least try sitting and, keeping your hips facing forward and with your finger on the edge of your shoulder blade, turn your shoulders 90 degrees. Your finger, fifth rib at mid armpit and right nipple will form a straight line going around the pleural cavity.

I am not a thoracic surgeon nor anatomist, but it may be that the known bullet path requires that kind of right turn for the bullet path not to penetrate the pleural cavity.

I am also saddened that you would consider the honest recollections of the witnesses to the murder of your President to be crap.

It's pointless even discussing any of this other crap because if you can't show it's even possible for JBC to be shot in the back at Z271, the rest of your theory collapses like a house of cards. I'm not even asking you to prove he was shot in that back at or about Z271. Just show us that it was possible. Apparently, you can't do that.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Are there any "researchers" here who started out as LNs but who are now CTs?
« Last post by Joffrey van de Wiel on May 02, 2026, 11:18:11 PM »
I started as an objective student in High School, who wrote in a paper for history class that President Kennedy had been assassinated by a man named Oswald. I had no opinion on it whatsoever, but assumed it to be true as it was given as a fact in the few books on JFK we had in our school library. But I guess it qualifies me as a LN at that time.

That changed when I had to review a (bad) book on JFK at University and found out there were a lot of questions about the validity of the conclusions of the official Report. It stimulated me to read more on the assassination, focusing on books written by critics/conspiracy theorists. Unfortunately I found out that many of their claims are not based on a correct interpretation of the evidence, to phrase it politely.

Now I consider myself to be a Warren Commission critic and support the HSCA conclusion of a 'probable conspiracy.' I have reasonable doubt about Oswald's guilt or even involvement, but try to keep an open mind. Like Mr. Cole above, I believe that a relatively small, but powerful and well-funded group was behind the assassination.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Hypothetical question
« Last post by Tom Graves on May 02, 2026, 11:05:20 PM »
Quote from: John Corbett on May 02, 2026, 08:35:14 PM
You're entitled to that opinion but it doesn't make it a fact.

Your saying Zapruder filmed the shooting from start to finish doesn't make it a fact -- even if Zapruder (mistakenly) said that he had.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Video: Johnson Did Not Rule Out A Conspiracy
« Last post by Martin Weidmann on May 02, 2026, 10:16:47 PM »
Quote from: John Corbett on May 02, 2026, 08:38:44 PM
Who cares what LBJ thought. He was getting most of his information directly from Hoover and it is clear from their recorded conversations that Hoover was completely clueless about the details of the assassination.

Try thinking before you write something as stupid as this.

You rely on the WC findings, right?

The WC relied completely on Hoover's FBI for the bulk of the investigation. Everything went through Hoover so if he was completely clueless than so was the WC!  :D
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Last post by Andrew Mason on May 02, 2026, 09:45:50 PM »
Quote from: John Corbett on May 02, 2026, 09:02:30 PM
It's pointless even discussing any of this other crap because if you can't show it's even possible for JBC to be shot in the back at Z271, the rest of your theory collapses like a house of cards. I'm not even asking you to prove he was shot in that back at or about Z271. Just show us that it was possible. Apparently, you can't do that.
I agree it is pointless if you can’t see that with your torso twisted and shoulders turned 90 degrees to the hips, the lateral edge of the scapula, middle of the right armpit and a point just below and medial to the right nipple align and form a left-to-right path that does not pass through the pleural cavity and right lung.

Why not at least try sitting and, keeping your hips facing forward and with your finger on the edge of your shoulder blade, turn your shoulders 90 degrees. Your finger, fifth rib at mid armpit and right nipple will form a straight line going around the pleural cavity.

I am not a thoracic surgeon nor anatomist, but it may be that the known bullet path requires that kind of right turn for the bullet path not to penetrate the pleural cavity.

I am also saddened that you would consider the honest recollections of the witnesses to the murder of your President to be crap.
68
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Robert Groden claims has original Wiegman film, says Prayerman is not LHO
« Last post by Tommy Shanks on May 02, 2026, 09:31:50 PM »
Quote from: Royell Storing on May 02, 2026, 05:05:50 PM
The gunshots were the "cue" for this car to begin moving down the Elm St Ext and then park in the "NO PARKING At Any Time" zone.

This is one of the most absurd statements I've ever read over here. Congrats again, Royell Storing! What would have happened if the "getaway" car driver mistook car backfire for gunshots? Or some other noise? Do you really believe a plan requiring this level of detail would have just thrown up its hands and said, "well, jeez, guess there's no other way our getaway driver will ever definitively know when to start driving, so, uh, just wait for the gunshot noises" ??
69
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Last post by John Corbett on May 02, 2026, 09:02:30 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on May 02, 2026, 08:54:25 PM
The camera was a deaf witness and it cannot explain itself.  Hearing witnesses can.

All I am doing is pointing out as a matter of fact what witnesses recalled and then stating what conclusions the evidence leads to. I have given you the 9 pages of shot spacing witness accounts that are distributed this way:


I gave you the lists of the others but you didn’t bother to read what they said so here is what they said:





I think you need to see what a deposit of 1900 joules of jacketed bullet kinetic energy into asphalt would look like.
The illustration is made by a person turning like JBC is in z271 and seeing how the lateral edge of the shoulder blade, the fifth rib and the right nipple form a straight line going left to right without passing through the pulmonary wall. But you do have to do it and feel where these parts are in order to see it.

It's pointless even discussing any of this other crap because if you can't show it's even possible for JBC to be shot in the back at Z271, the rest of your theory collapses like a house of cards. I'm not even asking you to prove he was shot in that back at or about Z271. Just show us that it was possible. Apparently, you can't do that.
70
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Last post by Andrew Mason on May 02, 2026, 08:54:25 PM »
Quote from: John Corbett on May 02, 2026, 02:17:41 PM
Yes, there is. Zapruder's camera.
The camera was a deaf witness and it cannot explain itself.  Hearing witnesses can.

All I am doing is pointing out as a matter of fact what witnesses recalled and then stating what conclusions the evidence leads to. I have given you the 9 pages of shot spacing witness accounts that are distributed this way:


I gave you the lists of the others but you didn’t bother to read what they said so here is what they said:







Quote
Yes. With months of traffic passing over it, asphalt surfaces will smooth out.Once again you display your poor powers of perception. JBC shoulders are most definitely turned to the right during that time frame.
I think you need to see what a deposit of 1900 joules of jacketed bullet kinetic energy into asphalt would look like.

Quote
And still you offer no illustration that shows how it was even possible for JBC to be shot in the back by Oswald at Z271. The impossibility of that alone destroys your entire premise. Unless and until you can do that, you are just blowing smoke.
The illustration is made by a person turning like JBC is in z271 and seeing how the lateral edge of the shoulder blade, the fifth rib and the right nipple form a straight line going left to right without passing through the pulmonary wall. But you do have to do it and feel where these parts are in order to see it.
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