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61


This strikes me as playing dumb about Oswald's Agent Provocateur status which explains all of your pretend conflicts the best of any explanation...
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Orest Pena stated that he saw Oswald in the company of Debrueys, Smith and Roche from INS, and other government officers as they all walked from Pedro the Greeks restaurant to the customs house building.

See page 17 of this pdf for Penas testimony on this:

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32246611.pdf

Pena has Oswald in the company of quite a gang.

And that's a bit of a problem.

Here's why...

On June 26, 1963, the FBI's Newark, New Jersey field office sent a memorandum to the New Orleans office. Newark had intercepted mailing list updates showing that Oswald had rented P.O. Box 30061 in New Orleans and was actively subscribing to communist literature and corresponding with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC) national office in New York. Because de Brueys was the main internal security/subversive agent in the New Orleans FBI office tracking pro-Castro activities, the lead was routed directly to him. In early July 1963, de Brueys conducted background checks on Oswald, verified the rental of P.O. Box 30061, and cross-checked local property and telephone listings.

On aug 9th Oswald got into a public fight with Bringuier showing himself to be a volatile character unsuitable as an FBI informant material.

Therefore if Debrueys was to consider Oswald as a PSI (potential security informant), Debrueys only had been June 26th and August 9th to do so.

Therefore it would have had to have been between these dates that Pena saw Oswald in the company of Debrueys.

Which is fine.

The problem however is that if Debrueys was only considering Oswald as an informant in this timeframe, he would not have got to know Oswald well enough to feel secure to introduce Oswald to INS officers not to mention the other federal officers Pena said he saw Oswald in the company of with Debrueys coming from the greek restaurant.

The problem therefore for the credibility of what Pena claimed he saw is that Pena has Oswald in the company of way too many federal officers for someone that was only being considered as a PSI by Debrueys at this stage. If Oswald turned out to be unsuitable as an informant, Debrueys would look like a fool to his INS colleagues.

Therefore to save Penas credibility and save the theory that Oswald was an FBI PSI, one would need to explain what conceivable reason Debrueys would have had to introduce his new friend Oswald, someone who he had no idea was even suitable as an FBI informant, to other federal officers so early on.

Can anyone give an explanation as to why Debrueys would have done this?
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Did you read that on MS(now no one is watch)?  Even if it were true, then at least means he can read.  That puts him ahead of Kamala and Joe.

Uh Oh Uh Oh . . . . .
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Jack Nessan on October 02, 2026, 04:04:29 AM »
It is not unreasonable to dismiss the 75% (if that is the actual number) when they are demonstrably wrong. Many of that 75% thought the last two shots came right on top of each other which is not possible with a bolt action rifle and all the physical evidence indicates all three shots were fired by Oswald's bolt action rifle. Large numbers of people can be fooled by the same phenomenon. We can only speculate why a large number of people got the spacing wrong because we don't know what they actually heard. I suspect many of those people heard two sounds from the final shot, which is a recognized phenomenon. There were many earwitnesses who did not seem no recognize the sound of the first shot. If those same people heard a double sound from the final shot, they could easily be fooled into believing the last two shots were close together. JBC's visible reaction at Z164, the simultaneous raising of the arms of JFK and JBC at Z226, and the obvious head explosion at Z313 give us a good idea as to the spacing of the shots. What we don't know is how quickly JBC reacted to the first shot by looking over his right shoulder. Dale Myers has hypothesized a shot as late as Z160. My own belief is the first shot was fired at Z147-148 followed by a noticeable camera jiggle at Z155. Tom Graves believes it was fired about a half second before Zapruder resumed filming. Without definitive proof, there is no way to say who is right, but under two of those scenarios, the first two shots would have been closer together while under the Graves scenario, they would have been almost evenly spaced, with the last two shots coming only marginally closer together than the first two.

The physical evidence indicates all three shots were fired by Oswald's bolt action rifle.

What physical evidence? Prove there were three shots

 Many of that 75% thought the last two shots came right on top of each other which is not possible with a bolt action rifle and all the physical evidence indicates all three shots were fired by Oswald's bolt action rifle. Large numbers of people can be fooled by the same phenomenon. We can only speculate why a large number of people got the spacing wrong because we don't know what they actually heard. I suspect many of those people heard two sounds from the final shot
[/u][/size]

Stumbling around you the way you do, you probably don't even realize your right. You are stating the three shot witnesses, 75% of them, were really two shot witnesses who mistook the double sounds from a single shot, the last shot, as two shots, making a total of three shots. Finally, even you realize how ridiculous the early missed shot is.

 





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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by John Corbett on October 01, 2026, 10:44:15 PM »
But it IS in the WC testimony of James Jarman estimating that he and Norman were out front of TSBD as late as 12:25. Now I think they both left about 12:22 when they heard a radio on a motorcycle parked nearby ( not sure which cop though) and they both started their return to the back of TSBD rear door and then took an elevator up to 5th floor . That would be only take maybe 1 min total time and then there is about 180 ft of floor to travel so by 12:23:30 they both are at their windows . Only THEN did BRW join them.

Then from Arnold Rowland WC there is bit more specific timing which I overlooked. Rowland actually is suggesting that he had seen the black man up to about 30 secs before the motorcade was 5 minutes away. Rowland was looking back every 30 secs approx right up till 12:23 when he looked and no longer saw anyone in the window.

So this why I was trying to work it out with all these 3 persons which if not until 12:23 the TSBD shooter only had 2 minutes max to move from whatever hiding place he was on the 6th floor to get to the SN , stack and orient the 3 boxes , if he was not to be captured in the Bronson film beginning at 12:25.

Now John C. May  think this all irrelevant but Imo if the shooter did not make a test run of placing his rifle on the boxes ,  then that could be the reason to have missed a 1st shot . The shooter basically  “slipped” a bit as he positioning the rifle and took aim, resulting in a miss farther off to right ( or even left side of limo  (that hit the manhole cover and or caused the grass uprooted)

Unfortunately those 75% witness pattern of 1….2.3 is too much % of a grouping to dismiss their recollections by saying they were simply wrong.

And as Dan has repeatedly posted on this thread the statements describing JFK reacting and slumping left when they had heard only 1 shot fired but not before they heard  a second shot , then how can this be concluded  as simply a wrong impression by these witnesses?

It is not unreasonable to dismiss the 75% (if that is the actual number) when they are demonstrably wrong. Many of that 75% thought the last two shots came right on top of each other which is not possible with a bolt action rifle and all the physical evidence indicates all three shots were fired by Oswald's bolt action rifle. Large numbers of people can be fooled by the same phenomenon. We can only speculate why a large number of people got the spacing wrong because we don't know what they actually heard. I suspect many of those people heard two sounds from the final shot, which is a recognized phenomenon. There were many earwitnesses who did not seem no recognize the sound of the first shot. If those same people heard a double sound from the final shot, they could easily be fooled into believing the last two shots were close together. JBC's visible reaction at Z164, the simultaneous raising of the arms of JFK and JBC at Z226, and the obvious head explosion at Z313 give us a good idea as to the spacing of the shots. What we don't know is how quickly JBC reacted to the first shot by looking over his right shoulder. Dale Myers has hypothesized a shot as late as Z160. My own belief is the first shot was fired at Z147-148 followed by a noticeable camera jiggle at Z155. Tom Graves believes it was fired about a half second before Zapruder resumed filming. Without definitive proof, there is no way to say who is right, but under two of those scenarios, the first two shots would have been closer together while under the Graves scenario, they would have been almost evenly spaced, with the last two shots coming only marginally closer together than the first two.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by John Corbett on October 01, 2026, 10:28:09 PM »
The WC Sham had the testimonies of Junior Jarman and Hank Norman to nail down when BRW went down to join them.
And wouldn't you believe it, they omitted this testimony from the report. What a shock.

You still don't get it and you never will. Witness estimates regarding time frames don't establish anything because they are nothing more than guesses. You are so pitifully stupid that you think every word of testimony the WC heard over the course of the investigation should have been included in the report whether it had any relevance or not in establishing who killed JFK. What the hell difference does it make what time BRW joined Norman and Jarman. The only thing that mattered was that all three were directly below Oswald as he was firing the shots that killed JFK. That provided further evidence that the 6th floor sniper's nest was the location of the assassin.

The testimony of all the witnesses was made available the 26 volumes for those who wanted to take a deeper dive, but it wasn't necessary to put verbatim testimony in the report to explain how the WC arrived at their conclusions.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Determining a Timestamp for Darnell
« Last post by Royell Storing on October 01, 2026, 10:20:35 PM »
Well if it was not a slip fall then one has to wonder why Wiegman  would lay down like that when he could have just crouched down  bending his legs while balancing himself still on both feet if he wanted to change his camera perspective to lower ground.

   Yes, I agree with you. There is No logical reason for a professional photog, that works for NBC, to be sprawled chest down across those steps.
   Plus: (1) Wiegman Never said he was ever sprawled across those steps, (2) No Eyewitness ever has said that they saw Wiegman sprawled across those steps, and (3) There are No Assassination Image(s) showing Wiegman sprawled across those steps.
   The Bell Film early/blurry copies led many members of the Old Guard JFK Assassination Research Community into rubber stamping what technology is now revealing to be a JFK Assassination Urban Legend. 
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Determining a Timestamp for Darnell
« Last post by Royell Storing on October 01, 2026, 10:07:08 PM »
Who cares?

   This has to do with: (1) Time Stamping, and (2) JFK Assassination Urban Legends
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Determining a Timestamp for Darnell
« Last post by Zeon Mason on October 01, 2026, 09:55:25 PM »
     This is exactly why it is vital to view the Entire Bell Film/Wiegman Snippet. No cropping, no chopping, no giffing. On the (R) we see a Bench. Directly Below that Bench are Steps. Directly Below those Steps is the Knoll Grass. Wiegman's legs/feet are on the very same level as that Knoll Grass. He is on that Knoll Grass. He is Not sprawled across the Steps. Wiegman is Facing (W) toward the bottom of the Zapruder Perch. Wiegman is running/stumbling (W) across the Top portion of the Knoll Grass.
     At some point, Wiegman has to arrive (W) of the street light pole to then be standing next to the Newman Family. From where we see Wiegman on the Bell Film, what route does he take to arrive at the bottom of the Knoll and stand next to the Newman Family? Is the claim being made here that from the point we see Wiegman on the Bell Film, he then ran diagonally across the Knoll in order to arrive at the bottom of the Knoll and stand next to the Newman Family? That route would be contrary to the route we see him taking on the Couch Film. Wiegman had to of run (W) across the upper portion of the Knoll grass, in the direction of the bottom of the Zapruder Perch, and then turned left and ran (S) down the Knoll. This is what we see Wiegman doing on the Couch Film. Running (S) DOWN the knoll, Wiegman was then (W) of the street light pole and standing alongside the Newman Family at the bottom of the Knoll.
     The old blurry Bell Film images were responsible for this old wives tale of Wiegman being sprawled across the steps as he filmed the Hester's. Technology has improved the Bell Film definition to the point that it is now clear that Wiegman was not sprawled across the steps. To the contrary, the Bell Film now clearly shows Wiegman to Not being physically on the steps in any manner.
     Some of you are shocked to discover that what you cavalierly accepted as being a fact, is nothing but a 62+ yr old JFK Assassination Urban Legend. You need to accept that Technology is solving this case as it disproves 1 JFK Assassination Urban Legend at a time.     

Well if it was not a slip fall then one has to wonder why Wiegman  would lay down like that when he could have just crouched down  bending his legs while balancing himself still on both feet if he wanted to change his camera perspective to lower ground.
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They say your boy is not only the most corrupt president we've ever had but enjoys reading Adolf Hitlers Greatest Speeches in bed.

Did you read that on MS(now no one is watching)?  Even if it were true, then at least it means he can read.  That puts him ahead of Kamala and Joe. 
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