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61
A possibility: The first two shots were misses because Oswald had to sight-in his rifle. The first shot missed completely, and the second hit JFK in the back, but those 2 shots let Oswald sight-in the rifle. With the third, he hit his target, Kennedy's head. He needed to sight-in the rifle because he had broken it down to carry it into the TSBD.
62
In March 1967, Bertrand Russell's secretary, Ralph Schoenman (Joan Mellen's ex-husband), sent Jim Garrison a copy of an anti-Clay Shaw / anti-CIA article that had been published in a Communist-owned Italian newspaper (Paese Sera) three days after Garrison had arrested Shaw on suspicion of masterminding a "homosexual thrill-kill" assassination of JFK.

The article motivated Garrison to change his theory against Shaw to “He organized it for the CIA!”

Garrison lost his case against Shaw in 1969, but twenty-two years later, Oliver Stone based his self-described mythological (“to counter the myth of the Warren Report”) film, “JFK,” on Jim Marrs' 1989 book, Crossfire and on Garrison’s 1988 book, On the Trail of the Assassins, a copy of which had been given to Stone by its far-left publisher, Ellen Ray, at a film festival in Cuba.

Garrison said in On the Trail of the Assassins that he wasn't aware of the Paese Sera article until after the trial.

LOL!

Gag me with a KGB spoon.

OMFG!



Garrison and Nicholas Lemann kept the following from Joan Mellen and then editor of the Garrison book you describe in your post, Zachary Sklar.
Sklar was also the coauthor of the screenplay, "JFK, the Movie" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,5066.msg181607.html#msg181607
....

In the course of attempting to determine if my new fact checked research details were actually original, I found identical details, by author of a biography of Clay Shaw, Donald H Carpenter.



....

(Gen. Phil Strong, USMC, just happened to be CIA science officer who initiated the U2 Spy plane project.)

Strong's prep school roommate, Walker Spencer, in Pottstown, PA, a Princetown U. feeder school, can be linked through that roommate to the busybody, Bouhe, in Dallas
whose sister in Plainfield, NJ who invited him to spend his last days there. Her husband's Princeton roommate was a member of "Squirrel's" 1928
touring musical production. Squirrel Ashcraft just happened to be CIA chief of domestic contacts in 1963.
So, the Dallas busybody's Georg Bouhe's sister's husband, a Mr. Tilbury Freeman, attended the same Princeton annual reunion that Squirrel attended, well into the 1980s.....
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2031.msg154502.html#msg154502

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https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3054.msg115033.html#msg115033
...Edwin "Squirrel" Ashcraft was an authority on 20th century Jazz History. He certainly knew who George Lewis was. Tom Bethel authored the definitive biographer of George Lewis and quite likely was acquainted with Squirrel Ashcraft.

Squirrel also happened to be the boss of William Burke and Lloyd Ray who succeeded Burke as head of the NOLA office of CIA domestic contacts because Squirrel Ashcraft headed that CIA department.

Squirrel's Princeton class of 1929 classmate was "Buck" Freeman of Plainfield, NJ. His name came to my attention because it appears as a sponsor on George Bouhe's application for U.S. citizenship. George Bouhe died in Plainfield, NJ, the city of residence of his sister, Freeman's wife. Buck Freeman certainly knew Squirrel Ashcraft, as his roommate, Bert Seay was a Triangle Players member at Princeton and Buck Freeman attended the class reunions....

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https://paw.princeton.edu/memorial/tilbury-ogers-freeman-29
BUCK DIED Apr. 11, 1991. He had prepared at Irving and Horace Mann Schools, New York Military Academy, and Barnard. At Princeton he was in the Glee Club and belonged to Gateway Club, Bert Seay was his roommate. Upon graduation he went to the National Acceptance Bank of New York, which later merged with the Bank of Manhattan. In 1942 he went to Hamilton Standard Propellers in Hartford. After participating in various business enterprises, he sold his interest in a booming firm and started traveling. His hobby continued to be music, and he served as president of the Plainfield Mendelssohn Glee Club, and was a soloist both there and in the Grace Episcopal Choir. In 1934 e married Irena Alexandrovna Bouche, and she survives, together with a son, Tilbury O. Jr. Buck's brother Herbert C. '38 is deceased, The Class extends its sympathy to Buck's family.

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Tom,
.......

A question for the moderator(s):

Are we permitted to make insane asylum-based jokes here?


I did not write this, the insane (your wording) grandson of Phil Strong wrote it. It was spring, 1937, USMC Reserve
Captain Philip G Strong was beginning a two year walking tour of  Germany and Russia. His guide in Berlin was
future Time magazine editor in chief, Otto Fuerbringer....
Quote
https://www.tor.com/2013/08/09/toby-barlow-cia-agent-babayaga/
I Never Knew My Grandfather, Only What He Pretended to Be
Toby Barlow
Fri Aug 9, 2013 11:15am Post a comment  Favorite This
Toby Barlow?s Babayaga is out this week from Farrar, Straus and Giroux, and follows the travels of a CIA agent posing as an ad executive CIA agent in Europe in the 1950s. What begins as a relatively straightforward operation quickly becomes something bigger, and weirder. Read an excerpt from the novel and see for yourself.

What you might not know are the life events that inspired Barlow?s story. Read on as the author tells us a tale about his grandfather, waiting on a German train in 1937?.

My grandfather sits on a train, waiting. It is early spring, 1937. His name is Philip Strong and he has boarded here in the Hamburg station, preparing to head to Berlin. Although I possess a volume of his letters from this trip, letters I have read many times, I am still not exactly sure why he is here.

He is 36 years old, a U.S. Marine Reserve Captain. But as a reserve officer, he is not travelling in uniform, instead he?s wearing an old tweed jacket. He has a bulky backpack stashed on the overhead rack. In his pocket is tucked his smoking pipe along with a small pouch of his treasured Dunhill tobacco.

Beside him sits a much younger man named Leko. They are on this sightseeing trip together. By all appearances, it is nothing more than that. They stay in youth hostels and ride on many trains such as this one, sitting back in the third class smokers.

It doesn?t make actually make sense that my grandfather would be here in any official capacity. He does not speak German or Russian, only a little French and only the most rudimentary Spanish. If the army had wanted someone to observe the European situation, they probably would have sent an agent who understood at least one of the various languages.

But it also seems too odd for him to be embarking on a journey with an itinerary that will take him through such a large number of the looming conflicts? many theaters. He will travel from Germany on to Poland, the Balkans, Russia, then down to Kabul and Tehran, driving from there over to Baghdad and Beruit before shipping off to the already jittery East.

Also, there?s the fact that he doesn?t know this young man sitting beside him very well at all. ?Leko and I are getting on well together ? we have likes in common with are being mutually discovered and so far have developed none which grate on each other,? he writes to his sister. It seems they are only socially connected, but not relatives and, until this trip, not friends. They do not agree politically, Leko, my grandfather reports, is pro-fascist, though my grandfather himself is not.

What is Philip Strong doing here? Maybe it is a bit of self-motivated opportunism. Perhaps he senses history coming and is cleverly placing himself squarely in its path.

Once they arrive in Berlin, Leko will strike up an acquaintance with a fellow name Otto Fuerbringer. This Otto fellow knows Berlin well so they all start travelling around town together. Otto is a Kansas City reporter, tall and handsome, my grandfather reports, a Harvard man. One day he will become the managing editor of Time Magazine. These are the sorts of people idly wandering around Hitler?s Germany in 1937, visiting all the various art museums, gardens and zoos (?the keeper who did the animal feeding was a born comedian.?)

Five years later, my grandfather will no longer be in the reserve, he will be very active. ....

Is not insane, the acceptance of the premise that Willard Robertson arrived in NOLA from New Haven, CT as middle aged
sales rep. for soon to fail Steelcraft Boats, soon left his wife and two kids, promptly marrying the 23 year old secretary
of the NOLA Steelcraft office, was driving the car in 1959 his young wife was killed in, and just happened to stay in business eight more years with his deceased wife's father, Ernest Gossom despite remarrying in 1962 and starting a
new family, founding and funding both INCA and Truth or Consequences and sponsoring Gordon Novel, on the way
to becoming, literally from scratch as the insane or incurious simply accept, to rise to multi-millionaire king maker of
both the McKeithen and Garrison political careers? Tooth Fairy probably has an authorative explanation...is he a member
here?

Quote
....All of the other Volkswagen regional distributors were, to say the least, a cut above Robertson, both in wealth and in imported automobile marketing and servicing.
Charles Urschel, Jr. was step-brother of Tom and Earl F Slick. Willard E Robertson, Jr. was the employee of failing Steelcraft Boats of West Haven, CT in 1952. He is buried in New Hampshire.

Quote
Philip Robertson and Patricia Anne Robertson Miller v. Willard E ...
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/477982/philip-robertson-and-patricia-anne-robertson-miller-v-willard-e/

Oct 22, 1986 - Willard E. Robertson, Jr., and Marlin Head, 803 F.2d 136. ... Willard Robertson, Sr. married Sally Moss Robertson in 1935 and lived with her in Connecticut. ... In 1947, the family moved to New Orleans, Louisiana, where ...

................

63
In March 1967, Bertrand Russell's secretary, Ralph Schoenman (Joan Mellen's ex-husband), sent Jim Garrison a copy of an anti-Clay Shaw / anti-CIA article that had been published in a Communist-owned Italian newspaper (Paese Sera) three days after Garrison had arrested Shaw on suspicion of masterminding a "homosexual thrill-kill" assassination of JFK.

The article motivated Garrison to change his theory against Shaw to “He organized it for the CIA!”

Garrison lost his case against Shaw in 1969, but twenty-two years later, Oliver Stone based his self-described mythological (“to counter the myth of the Warren Report”) film, “JFK,” on Jim Marrs' 1989 book, Crossfire and on Garrison’s 1988 book, On the Trail of the Assassins, a copy of which had been given to Stone by its far-left publisher, Ellen Ray, at a film festival in Cuba.

Garrison said in On the Trail of the Assassins that he wasn't aware of the Paese Sera article until after the trial.

LOL!

Gag me with a KGB spoon.
64
He was only shot one time.
We don’t really have any evidence that he was struck by only one bullet other than JBC said he felt only one bullet impact. The wounds are different and JBC did not feel two of his wounds. Everyone just assumed he was hit only once.
65
Question:

“Does a full metal jacket bullet ricochet off of hard asphalt differently than it would off of softer asphalt?”


Google AI answer:

“Yes, a Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) bullet ricochets differently off hard versus softer asphalt. Hard asphalt behaves like solid concrete, often causing the bullet to skid or skip. Softer asphalt acts as a yielding surface, absorbing energy and altering the bullet's departure angle.

Hard AsphaltBehavior:

 Highly rigid and unyielding. The copper or gilding metal jacket of the FMJ remains largely intact upon impact.Trajectory: Because it doesn't break apart, the bullet skids across the surface. It will often ricochet at a very shallow, dangerous angle.


Softer Asphalt Behavior:

 Richer in bitumen and softer aggregates, yielding to the force of the bullet.Trajectory: The bullet tends to penetrate slightly, transferring more of its energy to the road. This penetration can create a "ramping" effect, sometimes throwing the deformed bullet or its fragments into a higher, steeper departure angle. The bullet is also more prone to losing stability, tumbling, and breaking apart.”

The image below of the Haags’ demonstration leads me to believe that the asphalt that they used was much softer than what I would expect the surface of Elm Street to be. Plus you can see the asphalt mixture with stones, etc that can vary in many ways.

Regarding James Tague's nicked cheek, what happened to the largish fragment(s) from the Z-313 head-shot bullet that were never found?
66
“Conspiracy theorizing makes strange bedfellows.” If that’s not an old saying, it should be.

Lance, at my own peril I have been looking at the JFK Education Forum ... their former moderator W. Niederhut would seem to be exhibit A for lunatic fringe!
67
I witnessed an interesting phenomenon when I used to work in downtown Columbus, Oh. Broad St. is the major east-west street through downtown Columbus and I worked at Broad and 3rd Streets for almost 20 years which was right across from the State Capitol building. The far right lane on eastbound Broad St. is a right turn only lane onto southbound 3rd St which is a one way street. There was a fairly new asphalt surface on Broad St. with the crosswalk paint still very vivid. The cars in the right hand turn lane on eastbound Broad St. that had stopped to make the turn onto southbound 3rd St. had stretched out the crosswalk lines where the tires would typically have crossed. It had formed two distinct points in the crosswalk lines about 18" long. It speaks to the elasticity of asphalt.

Question:

“Does a full metal jacket bullet ricochet off of hard asphalt differently than it would off of softer asphalt?”


Google AI answer:

“Yes, a Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) bullet ricochets differently off hard versus softer asphalt. Hard asphalt behaves like solid concrete, often causing the bullet to skid or skip. Softer asphalt acts as a yielding surface, absorbing energy and altering the bullet's departure angle.

Hard AsphaltBehavior:

 Highly rigid and unyielding. The copper or gilding metal jacket of the FMJ remains largely intact upon impact.Trajectory: Because it doesn't break apart, the bullet skids across the surface. It will often ricochet at a very shallow, dangerous angle.


Softer AsphaltBehavior:

 Richer in bitumen and softer aggregates, yielding to the force of the bullet.Trajectory: The bullet tends to penetrate slightly, transferring more of its energy to the road. This penetration can create a "ramping" effect, sometimes throwing the deformed bullet or its fragments into a higher, steeper departure angle. The bullet is also more prone to losing stability, tumbling, and breaking apart.”

The image below of the Haags’ demonstration leads me to believe that the asphalt that they used was much softer than what I would expect the surface of Elm Street to be. Plus you can see the asphalt mixture with stones, etc that can vary in many ways.


68
I can’t tell from the zfilm whether he is hit in the chest and wrist at z225. Neither could JBC or Nellie.

He was only shot one time.
69
Well, there you have it, folks. According to these two guys, anyone who doubts that Oswald shot JFK and Tippit is "edging toward the lunatic fringe," or, anyone who just doubts that Oswald shot JFK is part of the "lunatic fringe."

Yup. Pretty much.
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Now, this is mighty interesting. Here's a partial list of the people who doubt that Oswald shot JFK:

-- Dr. David Mantik, a radiation oncologist and physicist whose had numerous papers published on radiology issues in peer-reviewed scientific journals and who has examined the JFK autopsy x-rays and photos at the National Archives.

-- Dr. Michael Chesser, a neurologist who has examined the JFK autopsy x-rays and photos at the National Archives and also JFK's pre-mortem skull x-rays at the Kennedy Library in Boston.

-- Dr. Gary Aguilar, M.D., who has examined the JFK autopsy x-rays and photos at the National Archives.

-- Barry Krusch, B.S. in psychology and author of Impossible: The Case Against Lee Harvey Oswald.

-- Dallas police chief Jesse Curry, who said it was not clear that Oswald shot JFK, and that no one had yet been able to prove he fired a rifle from the sixth-floor window.

-- Dr. Halbert Fillinger, a renowned forensic pathologist, who said the ammo that hit JFK's head behaved nothing like the ammo that Oswald allegedly used.

-- Dr. John Nichols, a professor of pathology and a court-certified expert in pathology and forensic pathology.

-- Doug Horne, former Chief Analyst for Military Records for the ARRB.

-- Dr. David Wrone, historian, a former professor of history at the University of Wisconsin, and author of The Zapruder Film: Reframing JFK's Assassination.

-- Jacob Hornberger, B.S. in economics and a Juris Doctor degree, a former professor of law and economics at the University of Dallas, and president of the Future of Freedom Foundation.

-- Robert K. Tanenbaum, a former Deputy Chief Council for the HSCA, former district attorney for New York County, former Chief of the Criminal Courts, New York County, and a former professor of  Advanced Criminal Procedure at the Boalt Hall School of Law at the University of California, Berkeley.

-- Dr. Walt Brown, Ph.D. in history from the University of Notre Dame, and a former professor of history at Ramapo College in New Jersey.

Of the names I recognize on this list, most of them are bozos when it comes to the JFKA, particularly Mantik, Horne, and Aguilar. Horne actually recycled David Lifton's Invasion of the Body Snatcher's theory which tells us all we need to know about him. Of course, MTG subscribes to that theory as well. Birds of a feather.

Curry has often been cited by CTs for some of the things he said early in the investigation before the case had been nailed down. They ignore what he said in the first interview in this video, in the very first minute of it. He repeats the statement at the 2:40 mark.

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I suspect that Lance Payette and John Corbett are posting their extreme, discrediting polemic in an effort to offset the fact that they are in a decided minority on the JFK case. Recently, I've been pointing out that repeated surveys have shown that only about 1/4 to 1/3 of Americans and Europeans believe the lone-gunman theory and that about 2/3 to 3/4 believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy

Given how uninformed the public at large is about the evidence against Oswald, that is not surprising. It's amazing how many people I've come across who got most of their "knowledge" about the JFKA from Oliver Stone's shitass movie.
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I suspect that Payette and Corbett are also posting their extreme polemic because lately I've been emphasizing the fact that the last federal investigation into the JFK assassination, i.e., the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA), concluded that JFK was killed by a conspiracy, that two gunmen were involved, that four shots were fired, that one of the shots came from the grassy knoll, that scientific acoustical evidence proved that more than three shots were fired, that there is credible evidence that anti-Castro Cubans were trying to frame Oswald for the assassinations weeks in advance, that Jack Ruby had significant Mafia ties, that Ruby lied about how he entered the basement to kill Oswald, that Ruby lied about why he killed Oswald, and that someone was moving boxes in the sixth-floor window within 2 minutes after the shooting at a time when Oswald could not have been there, among other findings.

The HSCA got it wrong. The WC got it right. 'nuff said.
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I suspect that at least part of the reason Payette specifies that one must believe that Oswald was the alleged lone gunman, instead of just believing that only one gunman fired at JFK, is that the HSCA concluded that Oswald was one of the gunmen (the sixth-floor gunman). Payette knows that if he merely required belief in only one gunman, regardless of his identity, he would have to label the HSCA as part of the "lunatic fringe."

Personally, I don't really care who the gunmen were.

Obviously not. If you did, you would have concluded Oswald did it a long time ago.
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I have no ideological objection to Oswald being one of the shooters. I just don't happen to think he was. The core of my position is that there was more than one gunman, and that is how many conspiracy theorists view the matter.

Yet few of you have ever tried to tell us who those gunmen were.
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If hard evidence surfaced that proved Oswald was one of the gunman, this would have zero impact on my theory of the shooting and minimal impact on my theory of the assassination as a whole.

You don't seem to have a theory. Your whole gig is rejecting the WCR without even attempting to give us a viable alternative.

Please list your three best pieces of evidence that someone other than Oswald took part in the JFKA. I've issued this challenge countless times over the years and few CTs have even tried to answer. I won't be surprised if MTG dodges it as well.
70
Have you forgotten about his sudden and rapid arm flip at Z226?

Anyone who can look at the footage immediately following JFK's reemergence at Z225 and can't see that JBC has obviously been hit is not a person who should be taken seriously. Trust me on this. We don't take you seriously. Neither the LNs nor the CTs.
I can’t tell from the zfilm whether he is hit in the chest and wrist at z225. Neither could JBC or Nellie. At least Dan, and Altgens, and 45 others who recalled that the last two shots were close together agrees with me that there has only been one shot to that point
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