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61
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by John Corbett on April 03, 2026, 03:55:45 PM »
You've read the "Cliff Notes" summary of "their" findings?

Are you referring to William Barr's four-page "summary" or his specious twenty-page memo to Trump?

Wikipedia's article on the Mueller Report?

Have you read it?

Here's an excerpt. I know you agree with the first sentence up to the [4] [5] & [6] footnotes, but what about the rest of the paragraph?

While the report concludes that the investigation "did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities,"[4][5][6] investigators had an incomplete picture of what happened due in part to some communications that were encrypted, deleted, or not saved, as well as testimony that was false, incomplete, or declined.[7][8][9] The report states that Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election was illegal and occurred "in sweeping and systematic fashion,"[10][11][12] and was welcomed by the Trump campaign as it expected to benefit from such efforts.[13][14][15] It also identifies multiple links between the Trump campaign and Russian officials,[16] about which several persons connected to the campaign made false statements and obstructed investigations.[4] Mueller later stated that his investigation's findings of Russian interference "deserves the attention of every American."[17]

A lot of mumbo-jumbo to say that while they found no evidence the Trump campaign had conspired with Russians, they wanted to suggest that they had. I'm not interested in what they thought. I care about what they knew and that was that there was no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians to influence the election.

But as long as we are dealing in innuendos, let's talk about the Clinton campaign and their funding of the phony Steele Dossier, which they laundered through the Perkins Coie law firm and Fusion GPS. This gave the Clinton campaign plausible deniability that they had directly funded the Steele Dosier. Still, the FEC fined the Clinton campaign $8000 for that piece of deception (BS) and the DNC $105,000. Do you condemn that or is your outrage selective.
62
JC-

My layman's take:

This is an image of JBC at Z-222 (see link below), JBC is sitting straight and upright, looks uninjured to me. You can see Jackie K. is looking with concern towards JFK. The President has already been shot. But JBC looks unharmed.

JBC may, or may not look alarmed (your call good as any) in the next few frames, but at this point he has heard the gunshot. I think he looks alarmed, startled, has sense of an impact behind him.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z222.jpg

OK, here we have the left profile of JBC's face (see link below), as he had turned around to look for JFK, after hearing the gunshot. That is what he testified. No sign of blood on JBC. This about 2.8 seconds after JFK has been shot.

JBC never testified to having been spun around by the shot that struck him. He testified that under his own power he turned around.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z271.jpg

~Z-295 this is where I think JBC is shot. Hard to tell, as his torso is below the door, out of view.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z295.jpg

Here JBC looks possibly to be pain:

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z298.jpg

More pain:

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z305.jpg

JBC is registering pain at Z-305, but that is 4.6 seconds after JFK was struck at Z-222.

JFK registered pain almost immediately during-after Z-222, as seen by Jackie K's reaction. Granted, not all people are alike...but seems like stretch that JBC would have such a delayed reaction.

If you read through Dr Shaw's WC and HSCA testimonies, you will see he is skeptical that one shot struck both JBC and JFK, and also wonders aloud where the shot that struck JBC's wrist came from.

Anyways, that my view.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.

How can you possibly determine a look of concern on Jackies face from that distance, low resolution of the film, and JBC's head is directly between Jackie's face and Zapruder's camera. As for Connally, I believe Z222 is about the time the bullet struck him. It could have been a split second before, or a split second after but there is no reason to believe his reaction would be instantaneous with the strike. In fact his first visible reaction is the sudden upward motion of his right arm at Z226, the same frame JFK's arms started moving upward.

I agree that JBC had heard the earlier shot but I don't base that on the look on his face which is impossible to discern given the distance and resolution of the camera. What we can determine is that he had turned to his right upon hearing the first shot. We see him start that rightward turn of his torso at Z164. He is not reacting to the sound of the second shot because he would not have heard that by Z222. The muzzle velocity of the Carcano bullet was roughly twice the speed of sound so the bullet would have hit him before the sound reached him which is probably why he doesn't remember hearing the bullet that hit him.

JBC's testimony was that he turned in reaction to the first shot and did NOT see JFK following that first turn. He could only have seen him after he was hit by the second shot which we see in Z271. You are conflating what JBC said about his reaction to the first shot with what he did following the second shot.

Z295 is where you really go off the rails. How could JBC have been shot in the back at that frame. The shot would have had to come from the south side of Elm St. and gone through Nellie Connally first.

Not surprising JBC would be in pain at Z298 since he had been shot about 4 seconds earlier although you couldn't judge that by the look on his face becase again the resolution is too poor to determine the look on anybody's face.

Yes, BOTH men had been hit about 4.5 seconds before Z305. Actually, by my calculations i's 4.6 but let's not quibble. Both men were hit about Z222 and both had been showing obvious signs of distress during that entire time frame..

How could Shaw offer any kind of informed opinion about whether the two men had been hit by one bullet or two. He only saw JBC's wounds. How could he determine whether or not the bullet that hit him had struck JFK first. ER surgeons are trained to patch up victims of gunshot wounds, not determine how their wounds were caused. That requires the expertise of a forensic medical examiner.

If I were you, I would seriously reconsider my view of what happened to JBC and when.
63
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Tom Graves on April 03, 2026, 03:13:46 PM »
You keep insisting I disagreed with the Mueller report. I have already stated and didn't disagree with their finding that there was no evidence the Trump campaign conspired with the Russians to influence the 2016 election. If Mueller found no such evidence, why should I believe there is such evidence. I did state that congressional committees are not infallible, and pointed to the HSCA of a probable conspiracy to assassinate JFK as one example of that. I was making a general observation about congressional committees and you read far more into that than you should have.

I have not read the full Mueller report and if I did I might or might not find things I disagree with. I have read the Cliff Notes summary of their findings. They found evidence that the Russians had worked to influence the outcome of our elections. I would be amazed if they hadn't since they had always done that in the past. In 2016 they had more tools in their toolbox due to the prevalence of social media, especially among younger voters. The Mueller report also found no evidence that Trump campaign had conspired with the Russians to influence the outcome. Of course, the Trump campaign was trying to influence the election. That's what campaigns are all about. There is no evidence the Trump campaign was working with the Russians and Mueller's report stated so.

Now tell us where I have said I disagree with the Mueller Report or the Senate investigating committee.

You've read the "Cliff Notes" summary of "their" findings?

Are you referring to William Barr's four-page "summary" or his specious twenty-page memo to Trump?

Wikipedia's article on the Mueller Report?

Have you read it?

Here's an excerpt. I know you agree with the first sentence up to the [4] [5] & [6] footnotes, but what about the rest of the paragraph?

While the report concludes that the investigation "did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities,"[4][5][6] investigators had an incomplete picture of what happened due in part to some communications that were encrypted, deleted, or not saved, as well as testimony that was false, incomplete, or declined.[7][8][9] The report states that Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election was illegal and occurred "in sweeping and systematic fashion,"[10][11][12] and was welcomed by the Trump campaign as it expected to benefit from such efforts.[13][14][15] It also identifies multiple links between the Trump campaign and Russian officials,[16] about which several persons connected to the campaign made false statements and obstructed investigations.[4] Mueller later stated that his investigation's findings of Russian interference "deserves the attention of every American."[17]


64
JC-

My layman's take:

This is an image of JBC at Z-222 (see link below), JBC is sitting straight and upright, looks uninjured to me. You can see Jackie K. is looking with concern towards JFK. The President has already been shot. But JBC looks unharmed.

JBC may, or may not look alarmed (your call good as any) in the next few frames, but at this point he has heard the gunshot. I think he looks alarmed, startled, has sense of an impact behind him.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z222.jpg

OK, here we have the left profile of JBC's face (see link below), as he had turned around to look for JFK, after hearing the gunshot. That is what he testified. No sign of blood on JBC. This about 2.8 seconds after JFK has been shot.

JBC never testified to having been spun around by the shot that struck him. He testified that under his own power he turned around.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z271.jpg

~Z-295 this is where I think JBC is shot. Hard to tell, as his torso is below the door, out of view.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z295.jpg

Here JBC looks possibly to be pain:

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z298.jpg

More pain:

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z305.jpg

JBC is registering pain at Z-305, but that is 4.6 seconds after JFK was struck at Z-222.

JFK registered pain almost immediately during-after Z-222, as seen by Jackie K's reaction. Granted, not all people are alike...but seems like stretch that JBC would have such a delayed reaction.

If you read through Dr Shaw's WC and HSCA testimonies, you will see he is skeptical that one shot struck both JBC and JFK, and also wonders aloud where the shot that struck JBC's wrist came from.

Anyways, that my view.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.












65
    Let me get this straight. After 62+ years, NO MOTORCYCLE COP, (including Haygood), has EVER identified themselves as being the "One Glove Cop" filmed by Darnell? And you want to cavalierly describe this as being a mere "anomaly"? Again, Haygood was the ONLY MOTORCYCLE COP back inside the  railroad yard immediately after the kill shot. That makes this "One Glove Cop" filmed by Darnell an impostor. And, when we last see this out-of-uniform, no motorcycle cop, he is heading Directly toward the TSBD. 1+1 = Conspiracy.   

Your position is completely illogical, which is also typical for conspiracy hobbyists. The fact that the officer in question cannot be positively identified is not proof that it was not a DPD officer. Absence of proof is not proof of absence. If we accept your "proof" that it is not Officer Haygood, that in no way proves it is not a DPD officer. The rest of your thought process completely escapes me. I see no semblance of logical thinking in your conclusion that "1 +1 = conspiracy". You continue to assert things you are unable to prove.

Do not misconstrue my comments that I have accepted your premise that the Officer in question is NOT Officer Haygood. From my perspective, it might or might not be Haygood. I don't have proof positive one way or another although if I were to place a bet on this issue, i would bet it is Officer Haygood and your argument that it is not is as illogical as all your other conclusions. Conspiracy hobbyists tend to gravitate toward their preconceived belief of a conspiracy. Their line of thinking goes something like this:

If A is true, B must be true.

If B is true, C must be true.

If C is true, there must have been a conspiracy.

They arbitrarily dismiss other plausible explanations of B and do the same with other plausible explanations for C. That doesn't make for a very compelling argument.
66
You've proved it to your satisfaction which is a rather low bar. But let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say that is not Officer Haygood. That's a long way from proving conspiracy. You would first need to prove who it is and that it is not a DPD officer. Then you would have to prove that this person was working with the assassin Lee Harvey Oswald. You've got some work to do.
 
I don't have to be aware of any such thing. The burden is on you to prove your hypothesis. You apparently have proved it to your satisfaction, but if you expect anyone to take you seriously, you'll have to do better than that.

Your approach is typical of what I have seen in 35 years of engaging with conspiracy hobbyists. You treat every anomaly, every unexplained event as proof of a conspiracy. It isn't enough to raise questions. You need to find answers if you want to prove your case. You don't get to say, we don't know the answer to these questions so the answer must be that there was a conspiracy. Sorry, but conspiracy is not the default answer for every unexplained question raised. You need to prove that the cop in question is not a DPD cop and that he was a co-conspirator in the assassination of JFK. But that is a step conspiracy hobbyists never take and few even bother to try. You don't prove anything simply by raising questions. You have to prove the answers to the questions you raise. You haven't even come close.

    Let me get this straight. After 62+ years, NO MOTORCYCLE COP, (including Haygood), has EVER identified themselves as being the "One Glove Cop" filmed by Darnell? And you want to cavalierly describe this as being a mere "anomaly"? Again, Haygood was the ONLY MOTORCYCLE COP back inside the  railroad yard immediately after the kill shot. That makes this "One Glove Cop" filmed by Darnell an impostor. And, when we last see this out-of-uniform, no motorcycle cop, he is heading Directly toward the TSBD. 1+1 = Conspiracy.     
67
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by John Corbett on April 03, 2026, 02:36:48 PM »
What's the false premise?

Do you think Republican Mueller and/or the Republican-controlled Senate Select Committee on Intelligence made stuff up to "get" Trump?

You keep insisting I disagreed with the Mueller report. I have already stated and didn't disagree with their finding that there was no evidence the Trump campaign conspired with the Russians to influence the 2016 election. If Mueller found no such evidence, why should I believe there is such evidence. I did state that congressional committees are not infallible, and pointed to the HSCA of a probable conspiracy to assassinate JFK as one example of that. I was making a general observation about congressional committees and you read far more into that than you should have.

I have not read the full Mueller report and if I did I might or might not find things I disagree with. I have read the Cliff Notes summary of their findings. They found evidence that the Russians had worked to influence the outcome of our elections. I would be amazed if they hadn't since they had always done that in the past. In 2016 they had more tools in their toolbox due to the prevalence of social media, especially among younger voters. The Mueller report also found no evidence that Trump campaign had conspired with the Russians to influence the outcome. Of course, the Trump campaign was trying to influence the election. That's what campaigns are all about. There is no evidence the Trump campaign was working with the Russians and Mueller's report stated so.

Now tell use where I have said I disagree with the Mueller Report or the Senate investigating committee.
68
Actually, in your enlargement, it looks like TUM is stepping over the retaining wall, with one foot still on the grass and one on the sidewalk.

   Yes! Umbrella Man is pumping his umbrella while simultaneously doing the "Hokey Pokey". "Storing Derangement Syndrome" (SDS) is running wild. 
69
It appears to me at the time this photo was taken, TUM was standing on the far edge of the sidewalk. TUM's leg shadow is being cast on the lawns concrete edge.



This photo taken relatively not long after, shows a cameraman on the sidewalk and by the angle of the shadow we can see that TUM was only inches away from the concrete edge.



BTW, if TUM was part of the conspiracy and was either waving his umbrella or firing a poison dart, there is no way he would hang around and let himself be photographed.

JohnM

   Not only is Witt's HSCA testimony contrary to the JFK Assassination images of Umbrella Man, if you watch Witt's HSCA testimony, he handles what looks to be a heavy water pitcher. He does this with his (L) hand. As we see above, Umbrella Man is pumping his umbrella with his (R) hand. It would have been interesting to see Witt sign his HSCA Testimony. Atticus Finch would have been all over this.
70
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Tom Graves on April 03, 2026, 02:06:22 PM »
I don't answer questions based on false premises.

What's the false premise?

Do you think Republican Mueller and/or the Republican-controlled Senate Select Committee on Intelligence made stuff up to "get" Trump?
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