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61
Facebook link inactive.

I found the illuminating Dale K. Myers diagram at the "JFK Truth Be Told" Facebook page.

There are a lot of conspiracy-minded folks there, too.

You'd fit right in.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Jarrett Smith on Yesterday at 03:18:48 AM »
Who said it was a fishing boat, and regardless, what does it matter?

Murder is murder.

Comrade,

Your liberal friends on MS-LDS say it was a fishing boat, which anyone with half a brain can see it wasn't. Let the pro's handle the situation.  Thumb1:
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Tom Graves on Yesterday at 02:59:45 AM »


Who said it was a fishing boat, and regardless, what does it matter?

Murder is murder.
64
TG---

Facebook link inactive.

Well, I guess I learned something today, upon reflection.

Not only is the wound to Gov. JBC's wrist a puzzler...but the wound to his leg as well.

The hole in JBC's pant leg shows a very small entrance...as if the slug that made that wound was still spiraling (as induced by the spirals seen on the inside of modern-era gun barrels).

No tumbling? After smashing JBC's rib and wrist, the bullet maintained a perfect spiral and bored into JBC's thigh?

Or, in the Tom Graves version, the bullet tumbled after leaving JBC's body, or was turned around 180 degrees, smashed JBC's wrist, but in the short distance between JBC's wrist and leg, it reverted to a perfect spiral?

Maybe.

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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. Politics
« Last post by Jarrett Smith on Yesterday at 02:37:55 AM »
66
DPD Chaney's first four statements were that there were only two shots. It takes 12 more years for him to add the additional shot. He was wrong four different times in 1963 but right in 1975?

James Chaney . (11-22-63 interview with KLIF radio, reportedly around 12:45 PM--but not broadcast at that time--"On the first shot we thought it was a motorcycle backfire. I looked to my left and so did President Kennedy, looking back over his left shoulder, and when the second shot struck him in the face then we knew that someone was shooting at the President." (When asked what happened after the President was hit) "He slumped forward in the car. He fell forward into the seat there." (When asked Mrs. Kennedy's reaction) "I don't know. When I seen that he was hit well I went on up ahead to tell Chief Curry's group there that he had been hit there, and we took him on to the hospital from there." (When then asked if he saw where the bullet had come from) "No, all I knew is it come over my right shoulder."

An example of Medias Influence

(Note: some sources have it that Chaney mentioned “a third shot that was fired that (he) did not see hit the President” and that he did see “Governor Connally’s shirt erupt in blood..” in one of his first interviews, but I can not find a primary source for these quotes.)

 (Article in the 12-2-63 issue of Newsweek, presumed to be based on an 11-22-63 interview of Chaney at Parkland Hospital by motorcade witness Charles Roberts) (On the first shot) "'I thought it was a backfire,' said Dallas Patrolman James M. Chaney, who was riding a motorcycle 6 feet from the right rear fender of the President's car." The President jerked his head around...Then (came) the second shot and his head exploded in blood..." 

(11-22-63 interview with Bill Lord on WFAA television, apparently in the early evening) “I was riding on the right rear fender... We had proceeded west on Elm Street at approximately 15-20 miles an hour. We heard the first shot. I thought it was a motorcycle backfiring and uh I looked back over to my left and also President Kennedy looked back over his left shoulder. Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, and uh, it was apparent to me that we were being fired upon. I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital and he had Parkland Hospital stand by. I went on up ahead of the, to notify the officers that were leading the escort that he had been hit and we're gonna have to move out." (When asked if he saw the person who fired on the President) "No sir, it was back over my right shoulder.” (At the end of the interview, Bill Lord, now back in the studio, adds "This patrolman was so close to the president that following the three shots his uniform was spattered with blood." 

(11-23-63 article in the Houston Post) "Dallas Police Motorcycle Officer J. M. Chaney told a Houston Post reporter that he was riding about six feet from the right rear fender of the President's car. He heard two shots that seemed to come over his right shoulder, he said. He said the President turned his face around over his left shoulder to look back after the first shot and was hit by the second shot in the left side of the head. Chaney said he did not know if the first shot hit anybody or not."

Another great example of “Medias Influence”. DPD Chaney never said this at all; Chris Davidson stated it for DPD Chaney.

 (11-24-63 article in the Houston Chronicle, posted online by Chris Davidson) "A motorcycle policeman just six feet from President Kennedy when he was hit said the assassin's first shot missed entirely. The second of the three shots felled Kennedy, said patrolman James M. Chaney. He was six feet to the right and front of the President's car, moving about 15 miles an hour while rounding a curve. The shot, said Chaney, came from the sixth floor of a warehouse building about 50 feet or less behind the President's car. From the sixth floor to the President, the bullet traveled about 110 feet, Chaney estimated. Chaney was an infantryman in Europe during World War II, with experience in sharpshooting. 'When the first shot was fired, I thought it was a backfire,' Chaney said. Everyone looked around. The President was looking back over his left shoulder. A second or two after the first shot, the second shot hit him. 'It was like you hit him in the face with a tomato. Blood went all over the car.   

DPD Chaney is still referencing the second shot was the headshot. Newsman Chris Davidson completely misses the point.


In every case that you cited above, Chaney says JFK looked over his left shoulder after the first noise. In none of those cases does he indicate that JFK was hit by the first noise. We can clearly see JFK turn his head to look over his left shoulder around the mid Z140s to the mid Z150s in the Zapruder film. No where else in the Zapruder film does JFK turn to look over his left shoulder.

In the television interview Chaney’s words are (per your post):

Then, the, uh, second shot came, well, then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet.

As Chaney later clarified per the FBI report, he looked back and saw JFK struck in the head after “the, uh, second shot came.” And that is precisely how his words in the television interview of 11/22/63 should be interpreted (according to proper grammar).
67
Did you say "Catholic"?

I once constructed a "Catholics Perped the JFKA" narrative, to show how easy it is to build a story-line regarding the JFKA. After you read this, you may believe the Catholics did it.

See below:

How to Construct a JFK Narrative or Hypothesis: Example

1. The Kennedy Administration had the Catholic Diem brothers, then leaders of South Vietnam, assassinated on Nov. 2, 1963.  Some, such as President Lyndon Johnson, would say President JFK authorized the assassination. Indeed, an overlooked document first released in the Pentagon Papers, now known as Cable 74228, shows JFK gave SV plotter Big Minh "a green light and instructed American officials in Saigon not to take a position on any of the coup plans," which was tantamount to approving of Big Minh's coup.  https://prde.upress.virginia.edu/content/JFK_Vietnam2

Lucien Conein, US Army-CIA-Catholic, gave huge sums of cash to Big Minh to finance the Diem assassinations, on the instructions of Ambassador Lodge, who was appointed by JFK.

2 JFK, a Catholic, was assassinated on Nov. 22, less than three weeks later. President LBJ told CIA Director Helms he thought the two assassinations were related. President Nixon also thought the assassinations were connected.

3. The head of the CIA in 1963, an organization many suspect helped perp the JFKA, was run by a Catholic, John McCone. After the JFKA, McCone was the first non-family member RFK met (RFK also a devout Catholic). McCone appeared to act as a "handler." But McCone was no ordinary lay Catholic. In 1955 Pope Pius XII made McCone a Knight of St. Gregory, and in 1956 the Pope awarded McCone the Grand Cross of the Order of St Sylvester---in layman's terms, McCone was a "Knight of Malta." 

As a Knight of Malta, McCone joined the Catholic elite in the Vatican annually on St. John’s Day. Dressed in scarlet uniforms and black capes, brandishing swords and waving flags emblazoned with the eight-pointed Maltese cross, these Catholic brothers will, in an atmosphere of pomp and circumstance befitting a coronation, swear allegiance to the defense of the Holy Mother Church.

The Catholics, Vatican and CIA have always been tight.

See also https://spyscape.com/article/gods-spies-the-vatican-the-holy-alliance-the-entity

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-truth-shall-make-you-free-catholicism-and-the-cia/

https://aleteia.org/blogs/aleteia-blog/why-the-cia-is-called-the-catholic-intelligence-agency/


4. The South Vietnamese Catholics and Diems were very tight with Edward Lansdale, who many suspect was in Dealey Plaza on Nov. 22. The SV Catholics had voiced strenuous and bitter resentments to Lansdale, regarding the JFK Administration assassination of the Diems. Lansdale was intensely angered at the Diem murders. Lansdale was a Catholic, too. Some say Lansdale oversaw the JFKA.

5. Jean Souetre (he also used the names Michel Mertz and Michel Roux) was a member of the French Secret Army Organization (OAS). Many suspect Soutre, a Catholic, was the gunman in the JFKA. France is, of course, a Catholic nation, and much more so in the 1960s. Souetre is known to have been in Dallas on 11/22.
 
6. The OAS, largely composed of Catholics, tried to assassinate de Gaulle many times. They were an organization with the skill set to perp an assassination. They had means, motivation and opportunity. 

7. JFK had supported the Algerians in their bid to de-colonize. The OAS was staunchly against Algeria independence, and had very strong motivations to perp the JFKA. 

8. The largest religion in Cuba, and among Cuban-Americans and exiles, is Catholicism. Many suspect the Cuban exiles, who were largely if not entirely Catholic, also helped perp the JFKA.

9. The Vatican in Rome can claim 1.4 billion adherents, with organizations and networks in every continent. The wealth concentrated in Rome is incalculable. The Opus Dei arm of the Vatican is considered very right-wing. (By comparison, there are 16 million Jews in the world, and that may be a generous count.)

10. LHO's relatives in New Orleans, and whom he lived with a while, were the Murrets, a Catholic family with ties to area Catholic/Italian mobsters. 

11. Jack Ruby, although Jewish, was "mobbed up" and answered directly to his Italian-Catholic bosses, including the Civello and Campisi families.  Ruby gunned down LHO on orders from the Italian-Catholic mob. The first visitors to Ruby in jail after the LHO were the Catholic Civello and Campisi families. Ruby was a small-time and disposable pawn, possibly considered disposable due to his religion.

12. Miami and New Orleans, which apparently birthed so many elements of the JFKA, have large Catholic populations, due to French-American, Cuban and other residents. There are extensive Catholic networks of religious, charitable, and political organizations in both cities that can be utilized to launder money and transport goods and people. 

13.  Keep in mind: On July 27, 1963, less than four months before the JFKA, Oswald was summoned to deliver a lecture to a group of Jesuits in Mobile, Alabama, at their House of Studies---and LHO went there. Jesuits are the on-the-ground shock troops of the Rome-based Catholic empire, the men who converted much of the New World to Catholicism---including the Cubans. It is possible the Jesuits summoned LHO to evaluate him for a role in the pending JFKA.

14. On the seven-man Warren Commission sat John J. McCloy, and Hale Boggs, the latter a "practicing Roman Catholic." 

15. E Howard Hunt, who admitted involvement in the JFKA, was a Catholic, and could ever verify where he as on 11/22.  

Conclusion: There is hardly any aspect of the JFKA that is not suffused with, or dominated by, Catholic participants. It is possible the JFKA was a Catholic cabal "revenge killing" for the Diem assassinations, mixed in with other secular motivations such as those at the CIA, or the Catholic-dominated Mob, Cuban exiles, and OAS militants. Even the CIA was led by the Catholic John McCone, on Nov. 22, 1963. 

---30---

So to add it all up: Obviously "the Jews" perped the JFKA.

Add on: You are correct, Marcello was a Catholic, and had the means, motivation and opportunity to perp the JFKA. Evidently Marcello confessed to the JFKA, in tapes still withheld from the public.

(In truth, I doubt Catholicism played any role in the JFKA, and I admire the many and large charitable activities of the Catholic Church.)
68
A bullet that is not tumbling when it struck JBC, then tumbles when it hits his wrist, and then returns to a perfect spiral again to pierce his leg.

Who in the world ever said CE-399 wasn't tumbling when it penetrated JBC's back?

Regardless, you might find this graphic by Dale Meyers enlightening.

But then again, maybe not.

PS IIRC, the entrance wound in JBC's back was "only" 15mm (0.59 inch) long.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10234798827765250&set=p.10234798827765250&type=3
69
You do realize that Rather would eventually hold the same CBS News Anchor position as Walter Cronkite? Yet, here you are describing Rather as being a halfwit.

Comrade Storing,

Not at all.

Dan Rather did a commendable job under the circumstances, i.e., not being allowed to see the clip more than once, having to run several blocks to the studio immediately afterwards, and telling the nation, without notes, what he thought he remembered seeing in it.

Give him a break.

He was spot-on on the most important thing -- JFK was shot.

-- Tom

70
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on December 06, 2025, 11:20:39 PM »
You continue attaching the TSBD to this. Stop trying to pass your opinion off as being a fact.

Comrade Storing,

My bad.

Rosemary Willis from about Z-145 on was looking, not at JFK and Jackie, but in the direction of Secret Service Agent Clint Hill, behind whom, of course, was the TSBD.

-- Tom
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