JFK Assassination Forum

I told you how I reached my conclusion. Can you tell me how you reached yours?

I already did - a forensic analysis of the Z-film

The phenomenon of camera jiggle in reaction to gun shots is well established. Zapruder's camera jiggle is consistent for the second and third shots and we can determine that because we know when those shots were fired. Jiggle analysis allows us to be accurate to with in one frame. It is strong evidence for the first shot fired at Z147-148 although it's not as conclusive as for the later shots. We don't have visual evidence of that shot hitting anyone or anything.

CE888 gives us the earliest view from the sniper's nest during the recreation of the shooting. It shows the view from the sniper's nest at Z161 and JFK is just starting to pass under that tree. It could be that as Oswald was tracking JFK through his scope, that tree suddenly came into view in the mid 140s and that could have caused him to rush that shot resulting in a bad miss. Just speculation, of course, but it seems to be a reasonable possibility.

1] Oswald wasn't tracking anything as he wasn't in the SN at the time of the shooting
2] The shooter was fully aware of the tree, it didn't 'suddenly come into view' 
3] The shooter had visualised the open space just beyond the tree as the 'kill zone'.  The limo would be at it's straightest from his POV, with minimal lateral movement.
4] Read through "The First Shot" thread to familiarise yourself with this issue rather than just swallow the WC Report down hook, line and sinker.
5] If the sound of the shots was so distant it would not have created any Jiggle for anyone to Analyse. That's the importance of Sitzman's observation. Jiggle Analysis is meaningless for the Z-film.

As you are well aware, two members of the Methodist staff on hand for Tippit's arrival have said that the clocks in Methodist ER were unreliable. Dr Mollenhoff said, any discrepancy was due to issues with Methodist's time system.

Since when are hospital workers experts on time systems? Show me their statements, please? I can't find their affidavits. Or did they simply express an opinion that you find convenient?

If the time system was indeed having problems, they could have easily get it repaired and obtain a written confirmation of what the problem was. I have never seen or heard this was ever done.

The official document authorizing an autopsy (written on November 22, 163 at 3:00 PM) says that Tippit was declared D.O.A. at 1:15 PM. If you want to dispute that time you will need a little bit more than an alleged statement by one or two hospital workers. Even more so as the officers Davenport and Bardin observed the doctors trying to revive Tippit before declaring him dead at 1:15 PM (which implies that the ambulance actually arrived at the hospital before 1:15 PM). They also mention in their report that 15 minutes later Dr. Moellenhoff removed a bullet from Tippit's body. The only problem is that we don't know which time piece Davenport and Bardin used.

Btw, another contemporary document that confirms the times reported by Davenport and Bardin is the receipt for the submission of a an uniform button and a bullet to the DPD evidence room, issued at 3:10 PM, on 11/22/63 On that document it is noted that Dr Liguori pronounced Tippit D.O.A. at 1:15 PM and Dr. Moellenhoff removed a bullet at 1:30 PM.


At the time it occurred, JFK's murder was also not a federal crime. So why was the FBI investigating it?

That's a good question. Dr. Earl Rose objected to the removal of Kennedy's body from Parkland Hospital on exactly that ground, but the Secret Service broke the law and took the casket anyway.

Where Kennedy differs from Tippit is that he was a federal employee and Tippit was a state officer. I'm only guessing that this could be the reason that FBI got involved, but a more likely scenario is that Hoover simply wanted to control the investigation and leaned on Chief Curry to ask the FBI for "assistance".

MW: Since when are hospital workers experts on time systems?

You don't need to be an "expert on time systems" to know that a clock is off.


MW: Show me their statements, please? I can't find their affidavits.

As I implied, we've already been over this. Nurse Thompson's statements come from Earl Golz' Dallas Morning News articles. Myers interviewed Moellenhoff. As I've pointed out previously.

 
MW: If the time system was indeed having problems, they could have easily get it repaired and obtain a written confirmation of what the problem was. I have never seen or heard this was ever done.

So? It don't mean that the clocks weren't off at Methodist that day.

 
MW: The official document authorizing an autopsy (written on November 22, 163 at 3:00 PM) says that Tippit was declared D.O.A. at 1:15 PM. If you want to dispute that time you will need a little bit more than an alleged statement by one or two hospital workers.

All I need are witnesses at the hospital at the time who say that the clock(s) in the ER were off that day.

The autopsy permit was generated by the Justice of the Peace at 3PM. The JoP was not located at Methodist hospital, and is therefore not independent confirmation of the time of death. If anything, the time is taken from the documentation generated at Methodist, so it is merely repeating information based on the same faulty clock used by Liguori.


MW: Even more so as the officers Davenport and Bardin observed the doctors trying to revive Tippit before declaring him dead at 1:15 PM (which implies that the ambulance actually arrived at the hospital before 1:15 PM). They also mention in their report that 15 minutes later Dr. Moellenhoff removed a bullet from Tippit's body. The only problem is that we don't know which time piece Davenport and Bardin used.

...and if that timepiece was the same one Ligouri used.....


MW: Dr. Earl Rose objected to the removal of Kennedy's body from Parkland Hospital on exactly that ground, but the Secret Service broke the law and took the casket anyway.

It wasn't until later in the afternoon that Texas AG Waggoner Carr and the US Dep of Justice jointly came to the conclusion that JFK's death was not covered under existing US law. Rose was asserting Texas laws regarding the movement of the deceased across county lines.

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After Oswald was brought in from the theater, everyone gathered inside the office of Capt. Westbrook.  This office is where the officers filled out their arrest reports.

Inside this office was Westbrook, Barrett and Oswald's wallet (with Oswald and Hidell identifications inside and taken from him by Bentley during the car ride from the theater to headquarters).

Think about it.

I did think about it. In Westbrook's office (or the lunchroom nearby) the gray jacket was marked by officers who were never part of the chain of custody. Officers who actually did handle the jacket at the car park did not mark it and they remain unidentified until this day. The revolver that Hill brought into the station and allegedly carried around with him for more than one hour wasn't marked by the officer who allegedly took it from Oswald and Hill could not positively confirm the revolver came from Oswald as he was only given the weapon in the car that took Oswald to the police station and was told that it belonged to Oswald. So much for the reliability of those officers.

There is no evidence that the wallet Bentley took from Oswald contained the Hidell identification and there is also no evidence that the wallet given to Gus Rose, by yet another unidentified officer, was the same one as the one Bentley took from Oswald.

I have found no record stating that Barrett was in Westbrook's office and that a wallet was there.

You are making statements you can not support with evidence!

Now you know why John C. is an LN zealot. The entire world is black and white with no nuances. No wonder he and MTG go at it - they are peas in a pod. Read The Guardian article for yourself and see if it sounds open-and-shut to you.

Yes, the world is black and white. There is only one truth. It's not a multiple-choice exercise. You seem to operate under the premise that there can be alternate realities.

The article doesn't suggest Reeves had money problems. Yes, at the peak of popularity of Superman, he was making the equivalent of $400K today - not exactly Milton Berle, I guarantee you. He had ongoing salary beefs with the production company. The point was that he was limited in his ability to work on other projects and was pretty solidly typecast by playing Superman and thus was unable to leverage his popularity into serious money.

A very common practice in those days. Clint Walker walked away from the hit show Cheyene because Warner Bros. wouldn't let him make extra money by doing public appearances as his TV character. During his absence while WB negotiated with Walker, they launched two replacement series, Sugarfoot and Bronco which alternated each week. When Walker returned, the three shows became part of a trilogy titled the Cheyene Hour although only the original series lasted for long. Fess Parker negotiated a deal when working on Daniel Boone in which he worked for far less money per episode than most stars in order to receive a share of the profits. When the studio tried to screw him over with creative accounting, he took them to court. James Garner had a similar experience on the Rockford Files. The point is the studios were always in a battle with their stars over money. Reeves was no exception.

The coroner's autopsy took place only after the corpse had been thoroughly washed. It failed to test for powder traces on Reeves' hand and, even though the top of Reeves' skull was removed, no one checked the head wound for gunpowder traces, which would have been present if he'd shot himself at close range. Nothing explained the bruises on the corpse's face and chest. Reeves showed no signs of a suicidal demeanour, left no note and died naked - extremely unusual for a suicide.

Is there a rule book those who commit suicide are supposed to follow? What are the consequences if they break the rules?

Other mysterious bullet holes were found in the house. Two were in the floor, with one bullet lodged in the wall of the downstairs living room. Lemmon claimed they'd got there after she fired the gun in an argument with Reeves. Lemmon's volatile nature and Vesuvian temper tantrums have long made her a prime suspect in projected murder scenarios, but here again there is no satisfactory evidence. She did however claim, 30 years later to a young reporter when she was in her declining years in New York, that Bliss had concocted her step-by-step "predictions" of Reeves' suicide. Her subsequent flight from the law is as readily explained by what was already known of her routinely scandalous behaviour as by any imponderable motive she may have had for bumping off Superman. Still, we might plausibly picture some stupid drunken argument over the gun, and a fatal, albeit accidental discharge. The weapon, however, was too recently oiled to retain fingerprints, hers or his.

Isn't it fun to speculate when you don't have any evidence this was anything more than a suicide. Similar to JFK conspiracies. They like to point a finger of suspicion at people who might have had a motive to kill JFK but for which there is zero evidence those people acted on those motives.

Reeves also had his new girlfriend, Leonore - a piece of work, to be sure, but lots of fun - and a holiday, if not a "honeymoon", had been arranged and was eagerly anticipated. He had been drinking heavily on the night he died, but he had the constitution of an elephant: drink never seemed to affect him anyway. The shell-casing found beneath his body suggested certain realities of ballistics not reconcilable with a verdict of suicide.

This one was debunked a long time ago. It was shown that when a semi-auto is placed to the temple and fired, the casing would eject behind the shooter. Reeves simply fell on top of that shell as collapsed rearward. I'm guessing it was about 40 years ago I saw that one put to bed. I'm wondering how the shell casing under the body could be reconciled with someone else pulling the trigger.

Hmmm ... sound "just a bit" like any other case you can think of? Maybe it's just me.

It sounds a lot like CT conspiracies. All sizzle. No steak.