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61
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 05:11:53 AM »
The Limousine and the motorcycle escort did not accelerate after the turn. They resumed the 10-12mph speed. The limousine never accelerated until after the headshot.

Given the fact that Zapruder didn't resume filming (after a 17-second pause) until the limo was already about 75 feet down Elm Street, how do you know what it and the motorcycles did just after turning onto it?

Regardless, even if they weren't "gunning it," Harleys is Harleys.
62
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Jack Nessan on Today at 04:25:26 AM »
Dear Freon,

Those motorcycles were accelerating and making a lot of noise when Oswald took his first, missing-everything, shot half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133 because they had just come around a near-hairpin turn.


The Limousine and the motorcycle escort did not accelerate after the turn. They resumed the 10-12mph speed. The limousine never accelerated until after the headshot.

63
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 03:25:14 AM »
In Graves' world, motorcycle noise only masked the unaimed Z-124 [sic; "Z-124"] shot fired by the TSBD 6th floor shooter

Dear Zeon,

Those motorcycles were accelerating and making a lot of noise when Oswald took his first, missing-everything, shot half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133 because they had just come around a near-hairpin turn.

D'oh!

-- Tom

Quote
[Who was] standing up despite [the fact] that he had stacked 3 boxes to use as a rifle rest. He did that because …  only Tom knows.

Dear Zeon,

Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133, was a steeply downward-angled shot that required him to stand / crouch while firing it.

He dropped down and used the boxes for his second and third "flatter," and therefore much easier, shots.

D'oh

-- Tom

Quote
In Andrew’s world, the TSBD 6th floor shooter decided to shoot thru the tree foliage at Z-190. Although no one else is reacting at Z-190, the Willis girl has slowed down running and is about to stop completely at about Z-200 and look back to TSBD. Apparently the SS agents were distracted by Graves world motorcycle “masking” noise even though that noise level is only 100db vs the 170db level of a rifle shot.

Dear Zeon,

Between Z-140 and Z-150, Secret Service Agent John Ready leaned to his right and started turning his head around like a bobblehead doll, Secret Service Agent Glen Bennett leaned far to his right to look around Dave Powers to see if JFK was okay, and Secret Service Agent George Hickey, later saying he'd heard something like a firecracker, leaned far over the side of the car as though he wanted to barf or pick up some litter.

D'oh!

-- Tom

Quote
The Z-190 1st shot went thru JFKs back and then exited his throat.


Dear Zeon,

What happened to that bullet after it exited JFK's throat?

Was it an evil, evil CIA ice bullet?

Did it melt?

Or was it a regular bullet and it hit JBC, too, and both he and JFK took about two seconds to react to it?

D'oh!

-- Tom

Quote
The LNs are nuts. They say Oswald was an excellent marksman due to his USMC training. Nevertheless, he stood up and fired his 1st shot from TSBD's Sniper's Nest window and missed the entire limo.

Dear Zeon,

What was the angular velocity of JFK's head from the Sniper's Nest window's point of view?

How far would he have to miss JFK's head to miss the limo altogether?

D'oh!

-- Tom
64
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Zeon Mason on Today at 02:57:55 AM »
In Graves world, motorcycle noise only masked the unaimed  Z124 shot fired by the TSBD 6th floor shooter standing up despite that he had  stacked 3 boxes to use as a rifle rest. He did that because…  only Tom knows  :D

In Andrew’s world, the TSBD 6th floor shooter decided to shoot thru the tree foliage at Z190. Although no one else is reacting at Z190, the Willis girl has slowed down running and is about to stop completely at about Z200 and look back to TSBD. Apparently the SS agents were distracted by Graves world motorcycle “masking” noise even though that noise level is only 100db vs the 170db level of a rifle shot.

The Z190 1st shot went thru JFKs back and then exited his throat even though that vertical  angle is more downward than the Z224 angle. Somebody needs to tell Myers to fudge a new computer model to align a Z190 shot with the back and throat wound if Andrew’s theory ever becomes a new  LN standard.

The LNs are nuts  They say Oswald was an excellent marksman due to his USMC training never the less  he stood up and fired his 1st shot from TSBD missing the entire limo.  ::)
65
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 02:56:38 AM »
It is the difference between the notes and his report that is what needs clarification.  Without a proper examination of Bennett all we can do is guess what he meant.  In both the notes and the later report he describes two initial shots that were extremely close together.

"Time flies when you're having fun."
66
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Andrew Mason on Today at 02:55:03 AM »
That is exactly how Bennett described it in his report which is unambiguous and needs no clarification. Anyone with fifth grade reading comprehension can understand what he wrote.
It is the difference between the notes and his report that is what needs clarification.  Without a proper examination of Bennett all we can do is guess what he meant.  In both the notes and the later report he describes two initial shots that were extremely close together.  That in itself needs further clarification.
67
Some JFKA researchers and students believe Lovelady and Shelley are the two men who can be seen walking/running down Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard / parking lot some 20 seconds after the final shot in Couch/Darnell.

It's physically impossible for those two guys to be Lovelady and Shelley, because 20 seconds wasn't enough time for them to have gotten as far down Elm Street Extension as we see them in Couch/Darnell after being told, near the "island" or at the steps, by Gloria Calvery -- who had to run a long way to get to the "island" -- or even worse, the steps -- that JFK had been shot.

Shelley and Lovelady said after the final shot, they raced from the steps across to the "little old island" where they stayed for a "minute or two" until Calvery reached them and gave them the bad news.

Is this physically possible in the given timeframe?

(Translated into understandable English by T. Graves)
 

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Mark Tyler has Gloria Calvery running up Elm Street towards the TSBD, conferring for about ten seconds with a couple of people in the intersection of Elm and Elm Street Extension, and finally arriving at the steps about 25 seconds after the final shot.

He has Marrion Baker arriving at the steps 30 seconds after the final shot.

Just looking at the Darnell clip, we can see Calvery as she's standing on a lower step with her back to the camera, apparently talking with the man in front of her, but we don't know how long she's been there.

We can, however, see Officer Baker as he's running towards the steps and he's almost there.

Calvery and her three South West Publishing Company colleagues (one of whom can be seen running past Lovelady and Shelley / "Lovelady and Shelley" towards the TSBD entrance) weren't very far down Elm Street from the "island" or the steps while they were watching the motorcade.

I suspect that Calvery and her dressed-in-white colleague next to her on the steps could have gotten to the front steps in about 15 seconds if they had run non-stop, giving Calvery plenty of time to relay the bad news to Lovelady and Shelley, and for Lovelady and Shelley, in turn, to get as far down Elm Street Extension as we see them in Couch/Darnell.

Regarding Lovelady's and Shelley's allegedly waiting "a minute or two (or was it three?) for Calvery to get to them, do you really think that's realistic?

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html

-- Tom
68
Totally incoherent.   Let's summarize.  Fauci's entire career involved preparing for a pandemic.  When it happened, he had no clue.  He made up the response on the fly.  He supported social distancing and closing the entire economy.  None which had any impact.  He admitted that social distancing was made up.  There was no "science" to support it.  He advocated closing schools and then forcing young children to wear masks.  Healthy, young children were at almost no risk.  The 15 million that died were largely older and unhealthy people.  They should have been prioritized.  Instead liberal icons like Cuomo did the opposite.  They forced nursing homes to take COVID patients.  It was an upside down response of incompetence.  Was Fauci the only person responsible?   Of course not.  Many people contributed to the disaster but he was the person who should have been prepared.  At best, he was simply an insecure, fame seeking incompetent.  At worst, he was complicit in the research that resulted in the pandemic and then covered it up to enrich himself.  Putting him on the same level as Dr. Mengele.

 BS: He did none of that. That was all Gov. and State Officials he had no control over. In fact more died in red states because your above lies.
The misinformation and lies from Trump and this current WH does so much more harm and death than Dr. Anthony Fauci ever did.
69
What a pile of garbage.
My mistake - Virus is not weaker our immune system became stronger - same result = virus won't kill you.

I already showed you he did not. You just repeat the same BS

"Dr. Anthony Fauci did endorse early, aggressive stay-at-home recommendations and local business closures to slow COVID-19, but he did not possess the legal authority to order a nationwide shutdown or bankrupt businesses. Elected officials—including the President and state governors—made the ultimate legal and policy decisions."

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/03/fauci-endorses-national-stay-at-home-order-162794

You think it was just a very strong flu? - Then, how did it kill 15m(??) people?
look up the stories of health care workers at the time - they're all the same.

I heard it first hand.  My brother in law worked at Bridgeport Hospital it was like a war zone. There was no treatment.
People of all ages were coming in but could only die. There were make-shift ICUs on every floor.  It was horrific.
If you could make to a ventilator you might have a 1 in 4 chance. He was doing 12 hour shifts with 5- 6 hour breaks and back to work.

Any downplay of the virus in the first year of the pandemic is  BS:

 :D ...and then the red states blocked the vaccine mandates

"...multiple peer-reviewed studies have confirmed that significantly more people died of COVID-19 in Republican-leaning "red" states and counties than in Democratic-leaning "blue" areas. While death rates were initially comparable or higher in dense, blue urban areas during the first wave of 2020, a stark partisan gap emerged in 2021."

Differences between U.S. red and blue states in COVID-19 regulations and deaths
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10684792/

Trump blocked the Biden administration and made distribution of the vaccine difficult.

Incompetence and Lies: Trump Leaves Vaccine Distribution Mess for Biden to Clean Up
https://www.americanprogressaction.org/article/incompetence-and-lies-trump-leaves-vaccine-distribution-mess-for-biden-to-clean-up/

No, the Biden Team Is Not Starting ‘from Scratch’ on Vaccines
https://www.aei.org/commentary/no-the-biden-team-is-not-starting-from-scratch-on-vaccines/

Covid-19: Was US vaccine rollout a 'dismal failure' under Trump?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55721437

He told you to hate Fauci and you followed along perfectly. He undermined a 40 year professional just as he does now to Jeanine Pirro.
By doing so, released false and even deadly misinformation. I wonder if it could be calculated how many did he kill?

Thumb1: Anyway, So much winning, good job Richard.

Totally incoherent.   Let's summarize.  Fauci's entire career involved preparing for a pandemic.  When it happened, he had no clue.  He made up the response on the fly.  He supported social distancing and closing the entire economy.  None which had any impact.  He admitted that social distancing was made up.  There was no "science" to support it.  He advocated closing schools and then forcing young children to wear masks.  Healthy, young children were at almost no risk.  The 15 million that died were largely older and unhealthy people.  They should have been prioritized.  Instead liberal icons like Cuomo did the opposite.  They forced nursing homes to take COVID patients.  It was an upside down response of incompetence.  Was Fauci the only person responsible?   Of course not.  Many people contributed to the disaster but he was the person who should have been prepared.  At best, he was simply an insecure, fame seeking incompetent.  At worst, he was complicit in the research that resulted in the pandemic and then covered it up to enrich himself.  Putting him on the same level as Dr. Mengele.
70
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 01:45:55 AM »
Altgens-6 shows Clint Hill apparently looking directly at JFK as he begins to slump to the left. This picture was taken about one-and-three-quarter seconds after the first shot.


Correction: Altgens-6 was taken about seven seconds after Oswald's first, missing-everything (and masked-by-the-roar-of-four-accelerating-Harley-Davison-motorcycles) shot at "Z-124," which shot was fired half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133.

Quote
Was the first shot 10 [sic] seconds before this pic was taken, as Graves suggests?

3.5 seconds, as Andrew suggest?

Or 1.75 seconds, as I suggest?

For the correct answer, see above.
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