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61
On top of which, I now see that the second photo I linked, taken days after the JFKA, clearly shows IT ISN'T BLACK AT ALL and is some sort of electrical box that the overhead line is going into. The face that I thought I saw in the other photo was indeed pareidolia. How come I could find the definitive image in 60 seconds on Google Images while Researcher Royell and his Team of Long Time JFKA Researchers couldn't? Is it because Researcher Royell is really just Jake Maxwell Jr. (a slur of Jake, who is at least a bit tongue-in-cheek) and his supposed Team is as imaginary as the Cottingley Fairies?

I'd have more patience if I had the slightest indication that Royell knew this was all crazy and was just having fun.



For those who don't know, the Cottingley Fairies were paper cutouts by two little girls who completely fooled Arthur Conan Doyle. As you can see, the hoax was quite well done for its era. I don't think Conan Doyle ever quite believed it was a hoax.
62
It's hopeless.  "Martin" plays the endless Inspector Clouseau contrarian routine.  He suspects everyone and he suspects no one.  Nothing ever has to make sense.  He won't admit to suggesting anything even by implication because he realizes the implications of his claims are not only baseless but don't add up. The only objective is to imply doubt.  Like the Monty Python skit, he is "here for an argument" that goes around in circles of lunacy.  Every thread dating back years has that same rabbit hole pattern.  Who can possibly believe that Oswald's wallet was found at the Tippit murder scene and claim there is doubt of his guilt in that crime AND that the investigators who are otherwise trying to frame him suppressed the fact that his wallet was left there.  The logical fallacies are literally mind boggling.  Even on a forum such as this one with all manner of crazy theories that line of argument is mind blowing.

The logical fallacies are literally mind boggling.

Make you case and give me one example of a logical fallacy
63
It was elliptical because it was elliptical??? Is that supposed to be an answer. If ever there was a case of circular logic, this was it.

What in the world? I will charitably assume you must have a reading problem. I pointed out that Dr. Shaw, who operated on the wound, said it was elliptical, and then I quoted him saying it was elliptical. Let me quote him again:

The wound entrance was an elliptical wound. (6 H 95)

And, to repeat, he's the guy who operated on the wound. He also explained that he debrided the wound elliptically, around its edges.

You know the wound measured 1.5 x 0.8 cm, right? You know this, right? That's almost identical in size to JFK's rear head entry wound--1.5 x 0.6 cm--yet no one has ever floated the theory that the head-shot bullet was markedly tumbling when it struck.

For newcomers who haven't read the whole thread, I should add that Dr. Shaw also pointed out that Connally's back-wound bullet created a "small tunneling wound" (7 HSCA 149), and he noted "the neat way in which it stripped the rib out without doing much damage to the muscles that lay on either side of it" (4 H 116), which debunks the idea that the bullet was markedly tumbling--either when it hit or when it tore through Connally.

BTW, Dr. Shaw was an experienced thoracic surgeon who had operated on over 1,000 gunshot cases, so he had vast experience with bullet wounds. (Ah, but John Corbett says, "That doesn't matter! He wasn't a forensic pathologist!")

I would bet a forensic pathologist would come to a very different conclusion about the elliptical wound.

Then you'd better quit gambling. Let's see:

Dr. Robert Kirschner, a forensic pathologist and one of the ARRB's three forensic experts, said the the SBT was "very dubious."

Dr. William F. Enos, the forensic pathologist who supervised CBS's SBT wound ballistics test, said the SBT was "highly improbable."

Dr. Milton Helpern, one of the foremost forensic pathologists of the 20th century, said the SBT was impossible, that not even an FMJ bullet could do all the damage claimed for it and emerge with its lands and grooves intact and with such a tiny loss of its substance.

Dr. Joseph Nichols, a professor of pathology at the University of Kansas who trained forensic pathologists, who had numerous articles on pathology published in peer-reviewed medical journals, and who was also a court-certified expert witness in forensic pathology, said the SBT was impossible for a number of reasons: the conflicting angles through JFK and Connally, CE 399's virtually undamaged condition; the lack of an unobstructed path from either of the proposed entry sites to JFK's throat wound; among other reasons.

Dr. Vincent DiMaio, one of the leading forensic pathologists of the 20th and 21st century, initially accepted the SBT but later changed his mind after studying the SBT more closely with medical scientist Russell Kent.

In fact the FPP panel did reach a very different conclusion. With one dissent, the panel concluded that the bullet that hit JBC in the back had first passed through JFK's torso.

LOL! Oh, so NOW you're back to citing the FPP majority! Pure comedy. And this after you just recently claimed that you "don't have to explain" the FPP's finding that the brain photos, if authentic, categorically rule out the EOP site; their finding that the skull x-rays do not show the low fragment trail described in the autopsy report; their finding that the only fragment trail on the skull x-rays is the high fragment trail with its cluster of numerous tiny fragments in the right-frontal region; and their finding that JFK's back-wound bullet entered and tunneled at an upward angle--a fact that they could only explain by bogusly assuming JFK was leaning over 50 degrees forward when the bullet hit!

If you would ever bother to actually read the FPP's report, you would discover that the FPP majority made no effort to explain the fact that the projectile that hit Connally's wrist deposited fibers in the wound but that the bullet that hit Connally's back deposited zero fibers, even though it had supposedly torn through four layers of JFK's clothing and two layers of Connally's clothing. The FPP majority also made no effort to explain how the alleged magic bullet could have nicked the top surface of the tie knot inward from the left edge while making no hole through the tie knot nor through any other part of the tie. 

And, as mentioned, the only way the FPP majority could explain the JFK back-wound bullet's upward impact angle and upward tunneling was by making the demonstrably false assumption that Kennedy was leaning forward by over 50 degrees.

We have known for decades now that there was no hole through JFK's tie and that the nick on the knot was not on the edge of the knot. In fact, in an effort to create the false impression that a bullet passed through the tie knot, the FBI made an evidence photo of the knot with the knot twisted in such a way that the nick appeared to be in the middle of the knot. When Harold Weisberg, through years of FOIA suits, finally gained access to high-quality photos of the tie, he discovered there was no hole through the tie, a fact that the HSCA later quietly admitted.

Yet, SBT believers continue to ignore this hard physical evidence and still peddle their debunked theory. You guys are like Flat Earthers who ignore satellite images of the Earth and continue to insist the globe is flat.

JFK's Clothing Proves the Single-Bullet Theory Is Impossible
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MAgWA0frOLVeWY6ok9nzdrgpRN4Wv1AL/view?usp=sharing




64
Another never-Trumper bites the dust

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/never-trumper-george-conway-lost-his-primary-so-badly-he-couldn-t-even-beat-a-lady-no-one-has-heard-of/ar-AA26rTMD?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=EDBBAN&cvid=6a3c2e1c25eb410bad29f5749fa91a6e&ei=24

He finished 5th out of 5.

He barely beat out None of the Above.

George Conway has one of the worst cases of TDS this side of Rosie O'Donnell. It's almost as bad as Tom Graves's.

Trump is a new kind of Sheriff.  Congress managed to pass a bipartisan Housing Affordability Act which allegedly benefits both Republican and Dem politicians.  Trump told them to cram it until they pass the SAVE Act.  Any other establishment politician would just have signed it for the PR.   On CNN they used certain buzz words with negative connotations to describe this.  Trump is "obsessed," "fixated," and "delusional" according to them when it comes to the SAVE Act.  If Obama had done something similar, he would be described as "heroic" or "standing up for what he believes."  If crazed right wingers had vandalized the Reflecting Pool, they would be deemed a threat to democracy.  The FBI would drop all other investigations and seek them out to the ends of the Earth.  But the story is that Trump botched the job. 
65
Your Black Object is most certainly not "entirely Black." Zoom in on it and you can pretty clearly see a face, although it's possible this is pareidolia : https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1813359032244661&set=gm.1221491097890220.

You can also see it clearly here: https://www.jfk.org/collections-archive/photograph-of-the-exterior-of-the-texas-school-book-depository-3/. Those wacky conspirators left it up days after the JFKA was over.

The reality is, (1) you are addicted to mentally masturbating over your nonsense; (2) you can't stand to allow one of your nonsensical threads to die a well-deserved death, so you keep bringing them to the front page with yet more nonsense; and (3) the mysterious "long term JFK Assassination researchers" you keep mentioning are completely imaginary. Isn't that about right?

100% spot on! Royell is like the newfound Ralph Cinque of JFK photo analysis - and no, that's not a good thing!
66
WTF???!!!
The WC dealt with that an gave a very reasonable answer for that. It isn't known whether any of Oswald's  shots missed and it isn't known that all the shells were recovered. His S&W Model 10 had a six round cylinder so he could have fired 5 or 6 shots before reloading. With only 4 bullets and 4 shells recovered, it's very possible there could be a mismatch between the shells and the bullets as to the make of each.
Why would you assume Frazier would remember such a detail? Marina IDed the jacket as belonging to her husband.
That was the statement of the arresting officer. is that what you consider "jumping to conclusions"
Are you saying that all of these witnesses erroneously IDed Oswald and by a remarkable coincidence, they wrongfully IDed the same guy who had possession of the gun that had fired the shells found at the scene of the crime.

It's amazing the things CTs are willing to convince themselves of in order to argue for Oswald's innocence.
Yes you did.  And I pointed out how lame your answers were.
I am very comfortable with my beliefs. I don't have to invent cockamamie excuses for not accepting the evidence of Oswald's guilt.

It's hopeless.  "Martin" plays the endless Inspector Clouseau contrarian routine.  He suspects everyone and he suspects no one.  Nothing ever has to make sense.  He won't admit to suggesting anything even by implication because he realizes the implications of his claims are not only baseless but don't add up. The only objective is to imply doubt.  Like the Monty Python skit, he is "here for an argument" that goes around in circles of lunacy.  Every thread dating back years has that same rabbit hole pattern.  Who can possibly believe that Oswald's wallet was found at the Tippit murder scene and claim there is doubt of his guilt in that crime AND that the investigators who are otherwise trying to frame him suppressed the fact that his wallet was left there.  The logical fallacies are literally mind boggling.  Even on a forum such as this one with all manner of crazy theories that line of argument is mind blowing.
67
WTF???!!!

I figured that would be over your head. You may not like it but a solid chain of custody is an absolute requirement to determine if a piece of evidence is authentic. That's why the revolver and the jacket were marked by several officers, including some who could not have been part of the chain of custody to begin with. That's also why the WC asked the FBI to reconfirm the chain of custody for all sorts of items, including CE 399. LNs frequently claim that the revolver is authentic and the chain of custody is valid because Hill identified his marking on the weapon during his testimony.

Now let's examine what really happened. Bob Carroll, who drove the car from the Texas Theater to City Hall, gave Gerald Hill a revolver which he said it belonged to the suspect and was taken from him inside the theater. But according to Carroll's testimony, that's not what really happend

Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; and then when I got up close enough, I saw a pistol pointing at me so I reached and grabbed the pistol and jerked the pistol away and stuck it In my belt, and then I grabbed Oswald.
Mr. BALL. Who had hold of that pistol at that time?
Mr. CARROLL. I don't know, sir. I just saw the pistol pointing at me and I grabbed it and jerked it away from whoever had it and that's all, and by that time then the handcuffs were put on Oswald.


So, here we have the first problem: Carroll can not positively confirm who the person was that held the revolver when he jerked it away from him.

The second problem is that C.T. Walker, who also was in the car, says in his testimony that he had the revolver, when Oswald was brought into City Hall.

And the third problem is that patrolman Bardin delivered a S.W. revolver to the evidence room at 3:25 PM, but Hill claims he marked the revolver and gave it to Lt Baker about half an hour later.

How anybody can call the chain of custody solid is beyond me.

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The WC dealt with that an gave a very reasonable answer for that. It isn't known whether any of Oswald's  shots missed and it isn't known that all the shells were recovered. His S&W Model 10 had a six round cylinder so he could have fired 5 or 6 shots before reloading. With only 4 bullets and 4 shells recovered, it's very possible there could be a mismatch between the shells and the bullets as to the make of each.

Yeah, a very convenient story and one of many the WC came up with. The problem is that there isn't a shred of evidence for it. If they really believe there was a fifth shot (not a single witness said there was) they could easily have searched the Tippit crime scene for the bullet and shell. The reality is that they never bothered!

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Why would you assume Frazier would remember such a detail? Marina IDed the jacket as belonging to her husband.

I don't assume anything. Frazier said it in his WC testimony. And yes Maria did identify the jacket as one of two owned by Lee. Now, I will freely admit that Frazier's testimony about the gray jacket is somewhat strange in as much as that he talks about a "more or less flannel, wool-looking type of jacket" which is an odd way to describe CE 162. However, as Marina confirmed that Lee only had two jackets and Frazier said that on Friday morning Oswald was waring the jacket with big sleeves, I would suggest that he was talking about CE 163, which only leaves the gray jacket CE 162 as the one Oswald would have worn on Thursday afternoon.

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That was the statement of the arresting officer. is that what you consider "jumping to conclusions"
Are you saying that all of these witnesses erroneously IDed Oswald and by a remarkable coincidence, they wrongfully IDed the same guy who had possession of the gun that had fired the shells found at the scene of the crime.

If you are talking about McDonalds, the answer is that he never made that statement in official documents. In his WC testimony, he didn't even know for sure that the revolver was pointed at him.

Mr. BALL - Was the pistol out of his waist at that time?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Do you know any way it was pointed?
Mr. McDONALD - Well, I believe the muzzle was toward me, because the sensation came across this way. To make a movement like that, it would have to be the cylinder or the hammer.
Mr. BALL - Across your left palm?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir. And my hand was directly over the pistol in this manner. More or less the butt. But not on the butt.


Only later he started to add on to his story and sensationalized it.

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It's amazing the things CTs are willing to convince themselves of in order to argue for Oswald's innocence.

And it's amazing to me that LN die hards are so easily fooled. Most of the Henry Wade cases that were overturned by the innocence project involved false identifications and witness manipulation.

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Yes you did.  And I pointed out how lame your answers were.

Well, as you are one of the most fanatical zealots in the LN clan I never was under any illusion that you would be willing to accept or even consider anything I have said. That doesn't mean that what I have said is wrong. It just means that you are to narrow minded and superficial to deal with it honestly.

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I am very comfortable with my beliefs. I don't have to invent cockamamie excuses for not accepting the evidence of Oswald's guilt.

And still here you are on a daily bases inventing all sorts of pathetic reasons to connect dots that in reality aren't there. Go figure!
68
I really don't give a shit what you focus on. I just find it silly.

Of course you do... just like I think you're a fanatical zealot full of BS.

Problems. What problems would that be? Are you denying the shells recovered at the scene could only have been fired by the revolver had in his possession when he tried to shoot the arresting officer?

Let's see if I can mess with your narrow minded brain for a bit! No I don't doubt that the shells recovered were matched to the revolver now in evidence. The problem is that there is no chain of custody for the revolver!

WTF???!!!
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Are you denying Oswald had the same two makes of bullets that were recovered from Tippit's body?

I can't deny or confirm that. What I do know is that Tippit was shot four time by two different bullets and that the shells found at the scene did not match up with the bullets.

The WC dealt with that an gave a very reasonable answer for that. It isn't known whether any of Oswald's  shots missed and it isn't known that all the shells were recovered. His S&W Model 10 had a six round cylinder so he could have fired 5 or 6 shots before reloading. With only 4 bullets and 4 shells recovered, it's very possible there could be a mismatch between the shells and the bullets as to the make of each.
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Are you denying Oswald's jacket was found on his escape route?

What jacket are you talking about? The jacket found by officers under a car, described as being white, or the gray jacket that Buell Wesley Frazier said Oswald was wearing during the trip to Irving on Thursday afternoon?

Why would you assume Frazier would remember such a detail? Marina IDed the jacket as belonging to her husband.
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Are you denying Oswald tried to shoot the arresting officer?

I wasn't present when it allegedly happened. Neither were you, yet you seem to be willing to jump to conclusions without knowing the actual facts.

That was the statement of the arresting officer. is that what you consider "jumping to conclusions"
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Are you denying that numerous witnesses IDed Oswald?

No, that's a fact. I just wonder about the way the line ups were conducted. In my experience it is just about impossible that all the witnesses at a line up identify the same person. There mere fact that none of the witnesses was even reluctant makes the whole line up questionable. This, by far, would be the most interesting part of a trial against Oswald for me. I would have loved to observe these witnesses on the stand being questioned by a defense lawyer.

Are you saying that all of these witnesses erroneously IDed Oswald and by a remarkable coincidence, they wrongfully IDed the same guy who had possession of the gun that had fired the shells found at the scene of the crime.

It's amazing the things CTs are willing to convince themselves of in order to argue for Oswald's innocence.
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Just which of the items that I listed do you have problems with?

I have just told you.

Yes you did.  And I pointed out how lame your answers were.
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OK, you go ahead and investigate it and report back to us what you find.

There is no need to report back to you because you will never ever accept any of it. You are not in a cult for nothing.

I am very comfortable with my beliefs. I don't have to invent cockamamie excuses for not accepting the evidence of Oswald's guilt.
69
Your Black Object is most certainly not "entirely Black." Zoom in on it and you can pretty clearly see a face, although it's possible this is pareidolia : https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1813359032244661&set=gm.1221491097890220.

You can also see it clearly here: https://www.jfk.org/collections-archive/photograph-of-the-exterior-of-the-texas-school-book-depository-3/. Those wacky conspirators left it up days after the JFKA was over.

The reality is, (1) you are addicted to mentally masturbating over your nonsense; (2) you can't stand to allow one of your nonsensical threads to die a well-deserved death, so you keep bringing them to the front page with yet more nonsense; and (3) the mysterious "long term JFK Assassination researchers" you keep mentioning are completely imaginary. Isn't that about right?
70
HUH? Did you miss the statements below in the passages I quoted about Dr. Gregory's interview, or did you just not understand them? Let's read them again:

We mentioned to Dr. Gregory that we had looked forward to talking with Dr. Shaw but that he was unavailable. Dr. Gregory said he and Shaw had talked about the wounding of Connally, and both believed that Connally and Kennedy had been hit by separate shots. Why? Because of the character of Connally’s back wound, Gregory explained. It was small and elliptical in shape. But most importantly, it had very clean edges. No fibers had been carried into Connally’s back wound, while his wrist wound was fouled with numerous fibers from his wool suit.

Do you understand now? The projectile that hit Connally's wrist carried with it numerous fibers from his wool suit into the wrist wound, but Connally's back wound had no fibers in it. If the bullet that hit Connally's back had just torn through four layers of JFK's clothing, it would have carried fibers from that clothing into Connally's back wound, but Connally's back wound had no fibers in it.

This is one of the reasons that both Dr. Gregory and Dr. Shaw concluded that the bullet that hit Connally's back had not hit anything else first. 

Seriously? I'm sure Dr. Gregory didn't think that years later someone who doesn't even know the basics about the wounds in the case would question why he said the wound was elliptical.

He said the wound was elliptical because . . . it was elliptical. Dr. Shaw, the guy who operated on it, said it was elliptical: "The wound entrance was an elliptical wound" (6 H 95).

It was elliptical because it was elliptical??? Is that supposed to be an answer. If ever there was a case of circular logic, this was it. I would bet a forensic pathologist would come to a very different conclusion about the elliptical wound. In fact the FPP panel did reach a very different conclusion. With one dissent, the panel concluded that the bullet that hit JBC in the back had first passed through JFK's torso. 
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