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The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: I've talked with several homicide cops. They don't believe in coincidence
« Last post by Lance Payette on Today at 02:41:24 AM »Alas, when I departed the Ed Forum, I deleted in their entirety all of my posts going back several years in one three-hour binge. I had started a "Raleigh phone call" thread, but my original post with my research is gone and no one who responded quoted my original post in its entirety. Since Greg Parker agreed it was "good work," it must have been a winner! 
All I can remember now is that by the time of the call Hurt was an alcoholic mental case who admitted he had made the call - i.e., it was an incoming call by Hurt - and the woman who wrote the call slip and the woman who found it were bitterly at odds as to what had occurred. In any event, I was and am 100% satisfied it is much ado about nothing.
Here is the thread: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/28717-the-raleigh-phone-call-an-examination-of-the-call-slip-factoid/
Steve Roe, Gerry Down and others agreed with my analysis, and Steve pointed out that David Lifton had spoken at great length with Hurt decades earlier and was satisfied he was an alcoholic mental case. Greg Doudna, perhaps predictably, had his "alternative take" on what had occurred. Niederwacky predictably went into "Lance the cognitive infiltrator" mode; he also referred to me as "our buglioser," which was at least halfway witty. Jimbo also got in his shots.
Here is Gerry Down's summary of his understanding, so it must be close to what I had written. In any event, this was a full-scale factoid exploration by me and involved a lot of work.
So let me get this straight. This theory is that a drunk John Hurt phoned the DPD looking for Oswald on Nov 23rd to have a talk. He gave Mrs Swinney his name and where he was from (John Hurt of Raleigh, North Carolina). Then John Hurt hung up - maybe he thought it was not a good idea to have a drunken chat with Oswald so late at night afterall, or the wife caught him and made him hang up. Mrs Swinney writes down on a piece of paper the name of “John Hurt” of “Raleigh, North Carolina”. Mrs Swinney then phones Oswald in his cell about this John Hurt. Oswald says he had no idea who John Hurt is. Meanwhile Mrs Alveeta comes in to work perhaps about 10:50pm and she briefly listens in on this conversation with Oswald before then going off the line and leaving Oswald and Mrs Swinney to talk in private.
All during this time there were two Secret Service agents in the room and hear about this John Hurt that was trying to contact Oswald. At this stage Mrs Swinney decided to try and find out (possibly on the orders of the Secret Service or on her own initiative) who this John Hurt was from Raleigh North Carolina. So she phones the operator directory assistance in North Carolina where they look through their phonebook and give her the names of presumably the only two John Hurts in Raleigh North Carolina. So she takes the previous piece of paper she had on which she had written the name of “John Hurt” and “Raleigh, North Carolina” and now adds the two possible phone numbers given to her by the operator directory assistance in North Carolina. Mrs Swinney then places two outgoing calls to each of these John Hurts in the hope of reaching the drunk guy who had rang her, but neither answer. The nosy Mrs Alveeta sees Mrs Swinney making these two outgoing calls and presumes she is making them on Oswalds behalf. As neither John Hurt answers the phone, Mrs Swinney views the whole endeavor pointless and throws the piece of paper in the bin.
When Mrs Swinney goes off work at 11pm, Mrs Alveeta retrieves the piece of paper from the bin and proceeds to make up a call sheet with the data on it as a souvenir for her daughter but because she only arrived in at 10:50pm AFTER John Hurt had phoned in, and only hears the start of the phone conversation in which Mrs Swinney talks to Oswald about a John Hurt, Mrs Alveeta thinks that it was Oswald looking for John Hurt rather than the other way around – John Hurt looking for Oswald. As the Secret Service had witnessed the events surrounding the call, after Oswald is assassinated Secret Service agent Kelley makes some brief enquiries to see if there is any “John Heard” on their books who could be linked to Oswald, which shows up negative.
This theory would mean the following:
Mrs Alveeta was being honest in so far as her understanding that Oswald was trying to contact a John Hurt.
Mrs Swinney is telling the truth when she says Oswald was not trying to contact any John Hurt. Mrs Swinney probably thought no more of the John Hurt call as a crank call from a drunken idiot.
The long suffering wife of John Hurt was telling the truth when she said that her husband had drunkenly phoned the DPD looking for Oswald on the night of Nov 23rd.
John Hurt himself was being honest in the years after the incident when he said he didn't know Oswald.
I'm not familiar with how switchboards worked in 1963 (i.e. how Mrs Swinney would phone Oswald in his cell, or how she would look for numbers from operator directory assistance in North Carolina etc). If anyone sees any mistake in my understanding of how these sets of phonecalls were made, please let me know.
All I can remember now is that by the time of the call Hurt was an alcoholic mental case who admitted he had made the call - i.e., it was an incoming call by Hurt - and the woman who wrote the call slip and the woman who found it were bitterly at odds as to what had occurred. In any event, I was and am 100% satisfied it is much ado about nothing.Here is the thread: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/28717-the-raleigh-phone-call-an-examination-of-the-call-slip-factoid/
Steve Roe, Gerry Down and others agreed with my analysis, and Steve pointed out that David Lifton had spoken at great length with Hurt decades earlier and was satisfied he was an alcoholic mental case. Greg Doudna, perhaps predictably, had his "alternative take" on what had occurred. Niederwacky predictably went into "Lance the cognitive infiltrator" mode; he also referred to me as "our buglioser," which was at least halfway witty.
Jimbo also got in his shots.Here is Gerry Down's summary of his understanding, so it must be close to what I had written. In any event, this was a full-scale factoid exploration by me and involved a lot of work.
So let me get this straight. This theory is that a drunk John Hurt phoned the DPD looking for Oswald on Nov 23rd to have a talk. He gave Mrs Swinney his name and where he was from (John Hurt of Raleigh, North Carolina). Then John Hurt hung up - maybe he thought it was not a good idea to have a drunken chat with Oswald so late at night afterall, or the wife caught him and made him hang up. Mrs Swinney writes down on a piece of paper the name of “John Hurt” of “Raleigh, North Carolina”. Mrs Swinney then phones Oswald in his cell about this John Hurt. Oswald says he had no idea who John Hurt is. Meanwhile Mrs Alveeta comes in to work perhaps about 10:50pm and she briefly listens in on this conversation with Oswald before then going off the line and leaving Oswald and Mrs Swinney to talk in private.
All during this time there were two Secret Service agents in the room and hear about this John Hurt that was trying to contact Oswald. At this stage Mrs Swinney decided to try and find out (possibly on the orders of the Secret Service or on her own initiative) who this John Hurt was from Raleigh North Carolina. So she phones the operator directory assistance in North Carolina where they look through their phonebook and give her the names of presumably the only two John Hurts in Raleigh North Carolina. So she takes the previous piece of paper she had on which she had written the name of “John Hurt” and “Raleigh, North Carolina” and now adds the two possible phone numbers given to her by the operator directory assistance in North Carolina. Mrs Swinney then places two outgoing calls to each of these John Hurts in the hope of reaching the drunk guy who had rang her, but neither answer. The nosy Mrs Alveeta sees Mrs Swinney making these two outgoing calls and presumes she is making them on Oswalds behalf. As neither John Hurt answers the phone, Mrs Swinney views the whole endeavor pointless and throws the piece of paper in the bin.
When Mrs Swinney goes off work at 11pm, Mrs Alveeta retrieves the piece of paper from the bin and proceeds to make up a call sheet with the data on it as a souvenir for her daughter but because she only arrived in at 10:50pm AFTER John Hurt had phoned in, and only hears the start of the phone conversation in which Mrs Swinney talks to Oswald about a John Hurt, Mrs Alveeta thinks that it was Oswald looking for John Hurt rather than the other way around – John Hurt looking for Oswald. As the Secret Service had witnessed the events surrounding the call, after Oswald is assassinated Secret Service agent Kelley makes some brief enquiries to see if there is any “John Heard” on their books who could be linked to Oswald, which shows up negative.
This theory would mean the following:
Mrs Alveeta was being honest in so far as her understanding that Oswald was trying to contact a John Hurt.
Mrs Swinney is telling the truth when she says Oswald was not trying to contact any John Hurt. Mrs Swinney probably thought no more of the John Hurt call as a crank call from a drunken idiot.
The long suffering wife of John Hurt was telling the truth when she said that her husband had drunkenly phoned the DPD looking for Oswald on the night of Nov 23rd.
John Hurt himself was being honest in the years after the incident when he said he didn't know Oswald.
I'm not familiar with how switchboards worked in 1963 (i.e. how Mrs Swinney would phone Oswald in his cell, or how she would look for numbers from operator directory assistance in North Carolina etc). If anyone sees any mistake in my understanding of how these sets of phonecalls were made, please let me know.