JFK Assassination Forum

Harold Norman
"He stated that about the time the car in which the president was riding turned on to Elm Street, he heard a shot. He said he thought the shot had been fired from the floor directly above him. He further stated at that time he stuck his head from the window and looked upward toward the roof but could see nothing because small particles of dirt were falling from above him. He stated two additional shots were fired after he had pulled his head back in from the window.”………..
“Just after the President passed by I heard a shot and several seconds later, I heard two more shots.  I knew that the shots had come from directly above me, and I could hear the expended cartridges fall to the floor. I could also hear the bolt action of the rifle………..
………..“About the time that he got past the window where I was, well, it seems as though he was, I mean you know, brushing his hair. Maybe he was looking at the public…I can’t remember what the exact time was but I know I heard a shot, and then after I heard a shot, well, it seems as though the President, you know, slumped or something, and then another shot and I believe Jarman or someone told me, he said “I believe someone is shooting at the President,” and I think I made a statement “it is someone shooting at the President, and I believe it came from up above us. Well, I couldn’t see at all during the time but I know I heard a third shot fired, and I could also hear something sounded like the shell hulls hitting the floor and the ejecting of the rifle.” ……..
And I said “I know I’m right” because I could hear something sound as though the shells were hitting the floor and I could hear the ejection of the rifle, clicks like that, you know.”………
…..(Later in the same broadcast) “Well, I was looking out the window and the first shot was fired. Well, y'know, I didn't think much of it, because it, shook the building a little bit. Really, it was just that powerful. Then after the second shot was fired, well, I saw the people. They were all falling on the ground. And I told one of the fellows. I say, “That shot came from this building.” And then by that time I heard the third shot. And one of the guys told me, he said, “I believe you’re right.” And I say “I know it did." And then I could, you know, also hear the hulls, empty hulls, the cartridges, hitting the floor, and I could hear the ejection of the rifle, whatever it was……..
………….."When the President came around, he was waving, seemed to be happy. About that time I heard a shot, and one of the guys said "Somebody's shooting at the President." ……
…………..And I could even now hear the empty cartridge hit the floor I mean after the shots had been fired. …..
…………(When asked how many shots he heard) “Three. I’d say just about like this BOOM…click click…BOOM…click clickBOOM. Something similar to that.”
…………..(On the shooting) "just as the motorcade came around...3 shots was fired...Boom, clack-clack, boom, clack-clack, boom. One at a time……….
………..(When asked if heard any cartridges fall) "I heard three." …….
…………."Well, I heard a shot when the motorcade came by. The first shot, it made the President slump. Then I heard two more shots." (When asked if he heard a total of three shots) "Yes, sir." (When asked how he could tell the shots came from above) "Yes, sir...Because I could hear the empty hulls--that's what I call them--hit the floor and I could hear the bolt action of the rifle being pushed back and forward." (When asked how many hulls he heard hit the floor) "Three." (When asked by the defense to describe the rhythm of the sounds) "As I recall, the rhythm of the sounds of the shots was Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click."
(1-19-92 interview with Gerald Posner, reported in Case Closed, 1993) "When the first shot came, I heard boom, then click-click, boom, click-click, boom. I could hear the sound of the click. I could hear the sound of the shells hitting the floor. I could hear everything. Three shots. No doubt in my mind."
………..The shots came from above and there was a gun and the shots were sounding, "Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click." So there was three shots fired right up over us when we were sitting on the fifth floor.”……….
………..  And all of a sudden, we hear something. 'Boom, ack, ack, boom, ack, ack, boom.' …………
……….And that was three of the shells I heard on the floor. And when the police officer asked about it, we told them about it and they went up there and that is what they found up there on the sixth floor. Three empty cartridge shells up there."
………..He laughed and walked away.' A few minutes later, Norman said, he heard three shots fired from the sixth floor window directly above the one he was using to view the parade."
Edited April 14, 2012 by Pat Speer.
Norman in places supports an early shot.
Brennan's statements support that Oswald stood up & back from the window  before the headshot.

If Norman heard Oswald eject a casing 3 times in fairly quick succession then that suggests that Oswald ejected the first casing at about the same time as the jfklimo started to turn from Houston into Elm.
We know that Oswald's shot-1 was at latest at pseudo Z113 -- this was when the jfklimo had passed by his window & had just passed the overhead signals -- shot-1 ricocheted offa the overhead signal arm.
I have always wondered whether Oswald pulled the trigger when the jfklimo was starting its turn into Elm -- ie a dry fire -- koz he forgot to eject the old empty casing.
If he hadnt forgotten to eject the old casing then he would have ejected it well before the jfklimo came into view in Houston.
Anyhow, now i come to what i really wanted to mention -- Oswald might not have known what the jfklimo looked like -- did he know that it might have the plastic bubble rain cover on -- did he know that the bubble was not bullet proof -- did he know that there was a divider/roll'bar that partly hid jfk from the SN until the limo was almost starting its turn into Elm -- did he know that jfk would be in the rear right seat.
If he fired a dry shot early on then he would have been flustered & likely to forget about or misjudge the problem of the overhead signal arm blocking a shot hence the ricochet at Z113.
Then in any case he fired shot-2 ok at Z216, hitting jfk & Connally at Z218-219.
Then he stood up & stepped back & saw Hickey blow jfk's brain out at Z313 -- anyhow i wonder why didnt Oswald fire his shot-3, albeit a long shot.

The two-shot theory nicely deals with the dented shell. Yes, the dented shell can be duplicated by clumsy ejection, as might well have occurred in Oswald's haste to operate the action as quickly as possible. However, Oswald was reported as frequently dry-firing his rifle, and a dented shell (which cannot be reloaded) is often used for dry-firing (because the firing pin may be damaged if there is no shell in the chamber). I, who used to reload ammo, did this myself (i.e., used dented shells for dry-firing). The theory, which I like, is that the dry-firing shell was still in the disassembled rifle in the Paine garage and was ejected by Oswald before he fired the two live rounds. I don't insist on this, but the theory that there was no early shot does seem to accord with the earwitness testimony and makes the timing issue less problematical. Phantom Shot, which I read 3-4 years ago, shows that a number of witnesses changed from "two" to "three" when this became the "accepted" version. Given the controversy as to when an early missed shot was fired - which itself calls into question the earwitness accounts - I'm surprised the two-shot scenario doesn't receive more attention since it seems to make the LN narrative even more plausible.

The biggest problem might seem to be the the Jarman-Norman-Williams trio. Even in the two-shot scenario, they might have heard the action being operated three times and three shells hitting the floor. Jarman and Williams didn't recognize the first one as a shot and Norman thought JFK had slumped after the first shot - so they may not be deal-killers for the two-shot theory.

They described 3 boom-click-click sounds. That doesn't fit a two shot scenario. It does fit a 3 shot scenario with a fourth round being chambered but not fired. You also have the problem explaining JBC hearing a shot before the one that hit him in the back. You also have the problem of explaining why most ear witnesses heard 3 shots.

No, I do not. After the shooting, traffic on Houston and Elm came to a standstill. I do not find it at all suspicious that the occupant(s) of that car would realize they weren't going to be able to get out any time soon.
Of course it is. You have leapt to a conclusion without considering other mundane explanations.
It is a fact a car was there. You've offered nothing that connects it to the assassination. That is all assumption on your part.
You have a very strange concept of what constitutes proof. Assumptions are not proof and all you ever offer are your assumptions.
I have no idea what the DPD was thinking at any given time but there is no evidence they connected the car to the assassination. Your "discoveries" are not the least bit significant if all you can offer are your assumptions.

                                            "AFTER the shooting, traffic on Houston and Elm came to a Standstill" ?

    You have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. Traffic was flowing down Elm St UNDER 9 minutes after the kill shot. That car could have left Dealey Plaza that quickly. Instead, it sat there for 3+ Hrs.

     Suppose after the kill shot, DPD ACTIVELY PREVENTED this car from leaving the, "NO PARKING At Any Time" Zone alongside the Island? Would you consider that DPD act was, "evidence they connected the car to the assassination"?
   
     I have no problem with answering questions that You might have. All you gotta do is ask. You are currently making statements that are without a doubt Egregiously WRONG! 

While the WC allowed for the possibility of only two shots, it seems pretty far fetched to me. JBC said he heard a shot before the one that hit him in the back. The clear consensus of witnesses is there 3 shots. Most compelling, three spent shell casings in the snipers nest. That dog won't hunt.

The two-shot theory nicely deals with the dented shell. Yes, the dented shell can be duplicated by clumsy ejection, as might well have occurred in Oswald's haste to operate the action as quickly as possible. However, Oswald was reported as frequently dry-firing his rifle, and a dented shell (which cannot be reloaded) is often used for dry-firing (because the firing pin may be damaged if there is no shell in the chamber). I, who used to reload ammo, did this myself (i.e., used dented shells for dry-firing). The theory, which I like, is that the dry-firing shell was still in the disassembled rifle in the Paine garage and was ejected by Oswald before he fired the two live rounds. I don't insist on this, but the theory that there was no early shot does seem to accord with the earwitness testimony and makes the timing issue less problematical. Phantom Shot, which I read 3-4 years ago, shows that a number of witnesses changed from "two" to "three" when this became the "accepted" version. Given the controversy as to when an early missed shot was fired - which itself calls into question the earwitness accounts - I'm surprised the two-shot scenario doesn't receive more attention since it seems to make the LN narrative even more plausible.

The biggest problem might seem to be the the Jarman-Norman-Williams trio. Even in the two-shot scenario, they might have heard the action being operated three times and three shells hitting the floor. Jarman and Williams didn't recognize the first one as a shot and Norman thought JFK had slumped after the first shot - so they may not be deal-killers for the two-shot theory.