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61
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Another face from the sixth floor...
« Last post by Denis Morissette on January 16, 2026, 10:11:04 PM »
62
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: A succinct and authoritative counterpoint to TG's "KGB stuff"
« Last post by Lance Payette on January 16, 2026, 09:55:13 PM »
Quote from: Tom Graves on January 16, 2026, 06:46:17 PM
Dear Fancy Pants Rancid,

I will endeavor to enlighten you later on the finer points of Royden's par-for-the-course screed.

For now, please be aware that the term "Monster Plot" was coined by a CIA operations officer by the name of John Limond Hart*, who wrote an article titled "The Monster Plot: Counterintelligence in the Case of Yuriy Ivanovich Nosenko" in 1976 ...

No, Hart did not coin the term "Monster Plot." Here is his 184-page report: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=219394#relPageId=1.

Quoting from page 6: "[W]e shall for ease of reference from time to time allude to the these regarding KGB operations and intentions - elaborated by Golitsyn and others - as the 'Monster Plot.' In fairness, it must be allowed that this term was in common usage not by the thesis' proponents but by its detractors; yet no other term serves so aptly to capsulize what the theorizers envisaged as a major threat to United States' security."

Moreover, both Hart and his 1976 report are referenced and cited by Royden in his 2011 article, so TG's assumption that I was unaware of Hart simply reveals that TG went into his usual knee-jerk response mode and didn't even look at the Royden article. While Hart was specifically charged with an analysis of the Nosenko case, he notes that he could not resist straying outside those narrow boundaries because the mishandling of Nosenko was symptomatic of the much larger problems Royden later discussed.


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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: A succinct and authoritative counterpoint to TG's "KGB stuff"
« Last post by Tom Graves on January 16, 2026, 09:15:51 PM »
Quote from: Steve M. Galbraith on January 16, 2026, 09:00:09 PM
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union we've had dozens of KGB agents defect to the West and historians/reporters interview other ex-agents and obtain access to many of the Soviet intelligence files, e.g., Mitrokhin, Volgonov et al. To my knowledge *none* of them revealed or found anything resembling some sort of "Master Plan" or plot by the Soviets that entailed, among other things, faking the Sino-Soviet split. There's no there there. The KGB was evil but they weren't ten feet tall.

Here are 10 KGB defectors who told the CIA that the KGB didn't recruit Oswald, that they found him unreliable. And that Yuri Nosenko was not a false defector but a real one that did enormous damage to their operations.

Igor Kochnov (1966);
Oleg Lyalin (1971);
Rudolf Herrmann (1980);
Ilya Dzhirkvelov (1980);
Vladimir Kuzichkin (1984);
Viktor Gundarev (1985);
Vitaliy Yurchenko (1985);
Oleg Gordievskiy (1985);
Vasiliy Mitrokhin (1991);
Oleg Kalugin (2004)

If you insist they were all triple agents sent by Moscow then what would you accept? You are making an unfalsifiable claim just as those conpiracists who say the CIA killed JFK make unprovable claims. It's remarkably similar. Just switch CIA for KGB or vice versa. The deranged Jim Garrison said you must think that up is down. That's how his followers think. But up isn't down. It's up. And whether it's the CIA or KGB up is up and not down.

As to Angleton: He was clearly spooked, so to speak, by the successes of the Soviets using "The Trust", when Philby defected, and when the Venona intercepts revealed that Moscow had more than 350 agents or assets in the US, some of them in key positions of the government. At that same time the US had zero, no agents inside the Soviet Union. That's remarkable really: 350 versus 0? That would drive anyone a little paranoid.

Dear Steve M.,

Other than Bruce Solie -- who may have recruited an unwitting Oswald for a planned-to-fail mole hunt that would protect him from being uncovered as "Popov's U-2 Mole" -- maybe the KGB-proper didn't recruit the former sharpshooting Marine / self-described Marxist.

Regardless, if you'd only buck up your courage and finally read Spy Wars: Moles, Mysteries, and Deadly Games and "Ghosts of the Spy Wars" by Tennent H. Bagley, PhD (look him up), you'd realize that at the very least, two people on your list -- Kochnov and Yurchenko -- were Kremlin-loyal false defectors, and that the others were either "doomed pilot" types or sketchy in their own right.

https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362

-- Tom
64
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: A succinct and authoritative counterpoint to TG's "KGB stuff"
« Last post by Steve M. Galbraith on January 16, 2026, 09:00:09 PM »
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union (and before) we've seen dozens of KGB agents defect to the West, historians/reporters interview other ex-agents and obtain access to Soviet intelligence files, e.g., Mitrokhin, Volgonov et al. To my knowledge *none* of them revealed or found anything resembling some sort of "Master Plan" or plot by the Soviets that entailed, among other things, faking the Sino-Soviet split. There's no there there. The KGB was evil but they weren't ten feet tall. So, what's the evidence of this plan?

As for Oswald and the KGB: Here are 10 KGB defectors (there are more) who told the CIA that the KGB didn't recruit Oswald, that they found him unreliable and of no use. And that Yuri Nosenko was not a false defector but a real one that did enormous damage to their operations.

Igor Kochnov (1966);
Oleg Lyalin (1971);
Rudolf Herrmann (1980);
Ilya Dzhirkvelov (1980);
Vladimir Kuzichkin (1984);
Viktor Gundarev (1985);
Vitaliy Yurchenko (1985);
Oleg Gordievskiy (1985);
Vasiliy Mitrokhin (1991);
Oleg Kalugin (2004)

If you insist these were all triple agents sent by Moscow (even *after* the demise of the USSR?) then what evidence would you accept? You are making an unfalsifiable claim just as those conpiracists who say the CIA killed JFK make unprovable claims. It's remarkably similar. Just switch CIA for KGB or vice versa. The deranged Jim Garrison said you must think in looking at the assassination and the CIA that up is down and down is up. That's how his followers reason. But up isn't down. It's up. And down is down not up. And whether it's the CIA or KGB up is up and down is down.

As to Angleton: He and others in CI were clearly spooked, so to speak, by the successes of the Soviets using "The Trust", when Philby defected, the atomic espionage, and when the Venona intercepts revealed that Moscow had more than 350 agents or assets in the US, some of them in key positions of the government. Good grief, they were all over the place and the success of the Soviets during that period was stunning. At that same time the US had zero, no agents inside the Soviet Union. That's remarkable: 350+ versus 0? That would drive anyone a little paranoid. But he carried it much too far (there's an understatement) and needed to be reined in. And nobody did.
65
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The Dear Mr. Hunt Letter Solved!
« Last post by Tom Graves on January 16, 2026, 08:15:04 PM »
Quote from: Fred Litwin on January 16, 2026, 07:33:16 PM
https://youtu.be/qv_578CKF2Q?si=AKBS1KOQTeAMZvqy

The Dear Mr. Hunt Letter Solved!

The Russian file that Anna Pauline Luna recently released has solved a long term mystery -- yes, the KGB was responsible for the Dear Mr. Hunt letter.

Dear Fred,

Gasp . . . the world-class humanitarian organization known as the KGB did something underhanded?

What's the world coming to???

-- Tom
66
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: A Car, A Garden, And A Coupla Guys
« Last post by Paul J Cummings on January 16, 2026, 07:56:40 PM »
If I'm not mistaken, Bowers said a car had gone up the Elm St. extension thinking it led to the parking lot. It also happened in the parking lot besides the TSBD because vehicles thought an exit back in the lot would reach Elm St. extension, which of course did not.
67
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Bruce Leonard Solie hid CIA files on LHO and Richard Case Nagell from the HSCA
« Last post by Tom Graves on January 16, 2026, 07:36:14 PM »
Quote from: Fred Litwin on January 16, 2026, 07:34:29 PM
Yes, I have answered that. There might have been sensitive information in the file, not relating to Nagell. Like the location of
a CIA office reporting on Nagell, etc.

The HSCA had very little interest in Nagell. They did NOT ask him to testify.

The ARRB also found that his story had no merit.

fred

Dear Fred,

I see.

(LOL)

-- Tom
68
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Bruce Leonard Solie hid CIA files on LHO and Richard Case Nagell from the HSCA
« Last post by Fred Litwin on January 16, 2026, 07:34:29 PM »
Yes, I have answered that. There might have been sensitive information in the file, not relating to Nagell. Like the location of
a CIA office reporting on Nagell, etc.

The HSCA had very little interest in Nagell. They did NOT ask him to testify.

The ARRB also found that his story had no merit.

fred
69
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / The Dear Mr. Hunt Letter Solved!
« Last post by Fred Litwin on January 16, 2026, 07:33:16 PM »
https://youtu.be/qv_578CKF2Q?si=AKBS1KOQTeAMZvqy

The Dear Mr. Hunt Letter Solved!

The Russian file that Anna Pauline Luna recently released has solved a long term mystery -- yes, the KGB was responsible for the Dear Mr. Hunt letter.
70
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Bruce Leonard Solie hid CIA files on LHO and Richard Case Nagell from the HSCA
« Last post by Tom Graves on January 16, 2026, 07:32:58 PM »
Quote from: Fred Litwin on January 16, 2026, 01:01:17 PM
I read it. I see nothing here to indicate they were hiding Nagell stuff.

Dear Fred,

Why did Solie put this at the beginning of Nagell's Office of Security file?


23 August 1978

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

From: Bruce L. Solie
Chief, Security Analysis Group [formerly known as the Security Research Staff's Research Branch]

Subject: Nagell, Richard Case
#264 170

1. This memorandum identifies those Office of Security files which were reviewed by the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) staff members in conjunction with the HSCA's investigation into the deaths of President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

2. Under procedures established with the HSCA, certain items of information were not reviewed by HSCA staff members [emphasis added]. These items were placed in envelopes, sealed, appropriately identified, and put back into the Security file prior to HSCA’'s review. Office of Security personnel reviewing these files should maintain the integrity of each envelope below so that interested parties may know what was and what was not reviewed by HSCA staff members. [emphasis added]

3. In some instances, the above files contain material marked in the lower right-hand corner with a green circular dot. This mark should alert Office of Security personnel to the fact that this material was located and placed in the file at the time of the HSCA review and [the green circular dot?] was seen by an HSCA staffer(s). This material should not be removed from the file.

4. Attached to this memorandum is a review sheet which identifies the name of the HSCA reviewer(s) and the date of his review.

5. Questions regarding the above procedure and or the HSCA's review should be redirected to the Security Analysis Group.

-- Bruce L Solie

. . . . . .

-- Tom
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