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31
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Would Oswald have been convicted?
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 02:50:10 AM »
Oswald would have easily been convicted of both murders and almost certainly would have been sentenced to death. I have serious doubts that the sentence would have ever been carried out. The infamous Clutter family murders in 1959 were also committed in November. It took 5 1/2 years for them to exhaust the appeals process before Perry Smith and Dick Hickock were hanged for the crimes. A similar length appeals process would have delayed Oswald's execution until 1969. By that year, there was a de facto moratorium on executions as the Supreme Court considered the constitutionality of the death penalty. In 1972 the Supreme Court ruled by a 5-4 margin that while the death penalty was constitutional, it created very specific guidelines for how it could be applied. They ruled that all current death penalty statutes failed to meet those guidelines and vacated all existing death sentences. In so doing, SCOTUS spared the lives of Sirhan Sirhan and Charles Manson as well as hundreds of other condemned convicts. Had Oswald been on death row at the time, he too would have been spared and the little bastard might still be doing time in the Texas Penitentiary. For that reason, I remain grateful to Jack Ruby. He did us all a huge favor by exterminating Oswald. I just hope Oswald suffered a great deal before he took his last breath.
32
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Podcast On Tippit
« Last post by John Mytton on Today at 02:41:36 AM »
Quote from: Zeon Mason on Today at 02:23:29 AM
So who actually found the jacket under the car?

After Oswald's jacket was pointed out, Westbrook removed Oswald's jacket from under a parked car.

Mr. WESTBROOK. Actually, I didn't find it--it was pointed out to me by either some officer that--that was while we were going over the scene in the close area where the shooting was concerned, someone pointed. out a jacket to me that was laying under a car and I got the jacket and told the officer to take the license number.

And subsequently Oswald's jacket which was confirmed by Marina, was filmed in the carpark.



JohnM
33
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Would Oswald have been convicted?
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 02:36:21 AM »
Moved to the Politics thread.
34
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Podcast On Tippit
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 02:32:29 AM »
Quote from: Martin Weidmann on Yesterday at 04:29:48 PM
Roberts statement about the jacket is crucial to the entire Tippit case. I find it beyond believe that you have been arguing the case for 35 years and have never discussed her statement.

Well, why don't you start today? 

You claim eye witnesses are frequently unreliable. Does that also include Earlene Roberts' statement about Oswald leaving the rooming house wearing a jacket?

I have discussed her statements bu never found any of them to be crucial to the case against Oswald. The discussions I've had with conspiracy hobbyists have been about here statement that Oswald came and left at about 1:00. Numerous times conspiracy hobbyists we try to use that as a firmly established  time to argue Oswald couldn't have reached 10th and Patton in time to have been Tippit's murder. That's silly for several reasons. We don't know that he left the rooming house at precisely 1:00 and a difference of even a few minutes makes all the difference in the world. Back when I visited Dallas in 2008 I made the walk from the rooming house to 10th and Patton in just under 13 minutes so I don't see any problem for Oswald to have gotten there in time to  kill ==Tippit.

As for the jacket, I can't ever remember focusing on Roberts statement about the jacket. The fact that she said he left with a jacket does not prove to me he actually did have a jacket on when he left but it certainly doesn't rule it out either. There's plenty of other evidence to establish ditched his jacket under a car after fleeing the scene of the Tippit murder. We could establish that even if Roberts had never mentioned the jacket. The single most damning piece of evidence that Oswald was the Tippit murderer is that he had the murder weapon in his possession when he was arrested along wtih the same two makes of bullets that killed Tippit. It's hard to get around that if you want to argue for Oswald's innocence. 
35
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Would Oswald have been convicted?
« Last post by John Mytton on Today at 02:27:36 AM »
Quote from: Martin Weidmann on Today at 12:57:49 AM
The WC was committed to the LN narrative from its creation.

Exactly right! The WC report was a political document and not the result of a honest and thorough investigation.

Quote
...and thorough investigation

This is why you lose, you will only accept a finding that mirrors your own flawed, inept, biased research. Pathetic!

The Warren Commission's findings were actually quite thorough which included the testimony or depositions of 552 witnesses and more than 3,100 exhibits, making a total of more than 16,000 pages. And the HSCA who were trying their damnedest to find a conspiracy, came to the same conclusion that Oswald fired three shots and killed Kennedy and wounded Connally.



BTW, after 62 years and the additional research of thousands of researcher who have collectively spent IMO millions of hours investigating this crime are still no closer to discovering who was behind the conspiracy and that's because there was no conspiracy, a lone nut who hated America, defected to the enemy and wanted to be known forever, took his rifle to work and assassinated Kennedy. Case Closed!

JohnM
36
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Podcast On Tippit
« Last post by Zeon Mason on Today at 02:23:29 AM »
So who actually found the jacket under the car?
37
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Education Forum Moderated by Anti-Semitic Crackpot---John Simkin is Aware
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 02:15:50 AM »
Quote from: Benjamin Cole on Today at 01:17:00 AM
PJC

Not that it matters, but I was banned from the (dis) Education Forum for posting that Sirhan fired live rounds at RFK and was not hypnotized. If you care, consult Kirk Gallaway.

True, I was warned or suspended once (I no longer remember which) by the deceased Ron B. for public worrying that the JFKA was "nothing more than a 60+ year snipe hunt."

I am justified in that statement. We still don't know who helped LHO, the actual boots on the ground, if anyone. So...what do we know? We have Jeff Morley dog-whistling "Mossad." Others say Mafia. Ed Landsale-Madame Nhu? CIA? KGB? G2?

Without knowing the boots on the ground on 11.22...we are in a snipe hunt.

I stand by my statement that Willian Niederhut is an anti-Semitic crackpot, suffering from Israel Derangement Syndrome, which he drags into the EF, and tried to drag into this forum as well, but was more or less laughed out of the house.

Neiderhut actually believes that Mossad planted thousands of explosives in the WTC towers, then set up exquisitely timed explosions, to bring the towers down pancake style. Mossad did this in cooperation with the building's owner (who was Jewish) and dozens or hundreds of participants in the Bush Administration who were...of course, doing Israel's work.

If you wish to have a substantive, civil conversation, this is my e-mail: 7continents7@gmail.com

Ten years or so back, the EF was OK, though ideologically left-wing. That is fine, libertarian, left, right, socialist, I don't care.

Something else has seeped in the EF-JFKA now. The bulk of EF posts concern modern politics, invariably always left-side (or not worse). Really, how much anti-Trump juvenalia can you read? (No, I am not a Trump fan. But I can read anti-Trump stuff anywhere. I want to read about the JFKA and related topics).

LN'ers are no longer much tolerated even in substantive threads.

I hope the EF can find its way forward. It seems in permanent decline.

Anyone who is a JFKA conspiracy theorist (other than, possibly, "the KGB encouraged and/or programmed Oswald in the USSR") is, at the very least, a "useful idiot."

Anyone who supports Donald Trump is, at the very least, a "useful idiot."
38
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Podcast On Tippit
« Last post by John Mytton on Today at 01:56:20 AM »
Quote from: Martin Weidmann on Today at 01:16:11 AM
Except of course when the witness' name is Earlene Roberts, right?

But let's see if you want to play. We know from Marina that Oswald had two jackets; one grey one and one dark-grey one. The latter was found at the TSBD and thus must have been the jacket that Oswald was wearing on Friday.

According to Frazier, Oswald was wearing a grey jacket on the trip to Irving on Thursday.

So, how could the grey jacket have been at the rooming house in Oak Cliff on the next day?

When you figure it out, let me know!

Very near the Tippit crime scene, Oswald was seen entering a carpark and his jacket was found under a car, the jacket was initialled by various law officers and the FBI forensic examiner, to maintain a chain of custody.

The jacket was filmed at the scene and this jacket was positively identified by his wife.



Stombaugh confirms his initials on evidence was designated by his initials PMS.

Mr. EISENBERG. "PMS" being your initials, Paul M. Stombaugh?
Mr. STOMBAUGH. Yes, sir.



Mr. RANKIN. 162?
Mrs. OSWALD. That is Lee's--an old shirt.
Mr. RANKIN. Sort of a jacket?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

JohnM

39
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Would Oswald have been convicted?
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 01:48:19 AM »
Quote from: Benjamin Cole on Today at 01:26:29 AM
TG-

You are incorrect that I conclude there was a JFKA CT.

I suspect there was.

Yes, the GK smoke-and-bang show suggests someone conspired with LHO, who I suspect was the TSBD6 sniper.

The smell of gunsmoke was heavy in DP in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA, but the breeze was blowing from the Third St. Overpass to the TSBD. So LHO's M-C was not the source of that gunsmoke.

The entry wound to the dorsal (wristwatch) side of JBC's wrist is inexplicable---so said JBC's surgeon, Dr. Shaw. The doctor had worked on 700 wartime bullet-shot victims. 

Yes, it appears to me JBC is shot ~Z-295. Do the math.

So we are on different pages on this one.

So what? That is what a forum is for.

LBJ wanted to, and nearly did, entirely suffocate investigations into LHO's KGB-G2 ties.

No nuke war with Russia...a reasonable-enough caution.

The problem is, only three shots were fired, the first shot missed everything half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming, and the second shot struck both JFK and JBC at approximately Z-222.
40
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The Brown Paper Bag
« Last post by Zeon Mason on Today at 01:46:09 AM »
Quote from: John Mytton on Today at 01:24:23 AM
You hit the nail on the head.
As soon as Frazier heard the shots, he instantly knew it was Oswald, when Frazier went back inside the Depository he went to eat his lunch all alone in the basement? WTF?
Then after he left in the early afternoon, Frazier went to visit his Stepfather in Hospital?
Then we have Linnie Mae Randle's initial confession to the FBI that the package was three feet long, almost the same size as the one in evidence, how would she know the size of some random paper bag with Oswald's prints which was found in Oswald's sniper's nest?







JohnM

You did a judo move on me LOL. That’s NOT exactly what I meant about Frazier being scared

I think he was scared in 63/64 initially and went along with the idea the bag must have contained the rifle.

But NOW , in 2026 Frazier said he does NOT think the bag contained a rifle. He has not changed his mind AGAIN has he?

It’s a leap imo to conclude Frazier instantly knew Oswald was the shooter. Unless you are agreeing with Tom the Gravedigger that Frazier is an accomplice?
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