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The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?

« Last post by Brian Doyle on Today at 01:41:01 AM »

Quote from: Dan O'meara on Yesterday at 09:57:14 PM

The man marked "Lovelady" is Molina...

The best resolution enlargements show Molina's bald pate on this man...

Molina's testimony said he wandered over from his position on the east side of the top platform towards the west side after the shots and then exited down the steps on his way to the Knoll...

Lovelady is fast walking up to the Knoll on the extension at the time of this image...

The woman marked "Hicks" might be Carol Reed...

The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: Quoting Common Sense

« Last post by Tom Scully on Today at 01:40:33 AM »

Quote from: John Corbett on Today at 01:27:21 AM

The odds of Oswald being selected to be the triggerman for the JFKA seem quite remote for reason already stated. To suggest that he was chosen to be the patsy and that he would have been such a cooperative patsy is even more far fetched. Why would Oswald have been willing to smuggle his rifle into work. I think he could put 2 and 2 together to figure out what a bad idea that would be. If one wants to believe that the plotters stole Oswald's rifle, how did they get Oswald to bring a long brown paper bag into work. Are we to believe that the bag found next to the sniper's nest with Oswald's prints on it just happened to be long enough to hold the disassembled rifle. Why were there no curtain rods in the empty paper bag found by the sniper's nest.

What if Oswald had decided to join the rest of the TSBD employees on the front steps of the TSBD. According to Ralph Cinque, that's what he did. Suppose he had returned to work and answered the roll call. Even if they found his rifle, he would have had employees ready to tell the police, "Lee was with us when the shots were fired".

If Oswald was a patsy, he had to be the most cooperative patsy ever selected to take the fall for a crime committed by somebody else. He did everything imaginable that day to make himself look guilty. This is where the CTs will tell us his "handlers" made him do all those things that incriminated him which is laughable. It reminds me of Flip Wilson's Geraldine character saying, "The devil made me do it".

If there is nothing to opinions that at the very least there was a cover up implicating folks in high places, (in the conspiracy to cover up, not necessarily in the JFKA itself...)
Why do we have the evidence of this 1977 letter and why was the FBI claiming it was unable to identify a "Mr. Beamis", described in that 1977 as the owner of a string of hotels, when it is obvious he was George HW Bush's lifelong,best friend?

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9963#relPageId=175

Quote from: Tom Scully on May 23, 2021, 12:47:36 PM

https://www.google.com/books...
Circa 1974 :

Henry Hurt had a job teaching school in the town Bush and Bemiss summered in, all of their lives,
Kennebunkport. Hurt was about to marry Bemiss's cousin....

The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: Quoting Common Sense

« Last post by Benjamin Cole on Today at 01:40:26 AM »

DVP:

The testimony of the Connallys has always clashed with the WC narrative.

Connally: I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double and when I looked, immediately I could see I was just drenched with blood. (1 HSCA 42)

Gov. JBC described himself as immediately incapacitated after he was shot.

The WC narrative is that JBC was struck by the same slug that hit JFK ~Z-221.

But JBC is bolt upright after Z-221, then looks over his right shoulder, eventually makes a near 180-degree in seat (you can see the left profile of JBC's face in the Z-film), begins to turn forward, and appears to be struck and pushed forward ~Z-295.

JBC shows no sign of incapacitating injury until after Z-295. I can well believe being shot though the chest would immediately incapacitate a man. I find it unlikely that JBC, after being shot through the chest, then made a 180-degree turn in his seat to check on JFK.

JBC being shot at Z-295 also lines up with the "bang...bang-bang" cadence described by so many witnesses.

I have reasonable doubts a lone gunsel, armed with a single shot per bolt action rifle, could perp the JFKA as revealed in the Z-film.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.

The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: Russ Baker's "Bush, Family of Secrets" Tom Devine takes his, to the grave

« Last post by Tom Scully on Today at 01:37:55 AM »

Quote from: Tom Scully on May 23, 2021, 12:47:36 PM

https://www.google.com/books...
Circa 1974 :

Henry Hurt had a job teaching school in the town Bush and Bemiss summered in, all of their lives,
Kennebunkport. Hurt was about to marry Bemiss's cousin.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/88891802/langbourne-meade-williams

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langbourne_Meade_Williams_Jr.
Langbourne Meade Williams Jr. (February 5, 1903 – September 8, 1994) was an American ... "He became president of Freeport-Texas with John Hay Whitney as chairman three years later. He then served as chairman from 1958 until 1967."

Readers Digest assigned author, Henry Hurt, according to a March, 1977 letter to President Carter by Billy Joe Lord, was pressuring Lord to cooperate with Readers Digest and author Hurt. The letter to Carter describe's Hurts advisor on how to threaten Lord's continued employment by Jim Allison, George Bush's friend and former congressional office staffer, a Midland newspaper publisher. The description matches Bush's closest friend, dating back to childhood summers in Maine, Fitzgerald "Gerry" Bemiss.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9963#relPageId=175

From Billy Joe Lord's March, 1977 letter to recently sworn-in, President Carter :

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9963#relPageId=270

See:
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1439

What Henry Hurt does not tell Billy Joe Lord is that Bemiss is Hurt's wife's cousin or that her father, Hurt's father-in-law, is the brother of Freeport Sulphur Chairman, Langbourne Williams. Langbourne and Bemiss have the same grandfather.

Henry Hurt, by the time he published "Reasonable Doubt", had twenty years of advancement of research and new disclosures that Sylvia Meagher had no knowledge of in 1967.

So, why did Hurt put this "stuff" (above images from his 1987 book) in his book, contrary to the existence of this?

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/Dallas%20Police%20Department/Dallas%20Police%20Department%20Records/Volume%2004/Item%2001.pdf
12:45 pm

Next page:

Posted just two weeks ago... I don't yet know how this researcher knows it is Nelson's instruction from Jackson, but
it makes sense, considering "87 Nelson" of the page before, is unaccounted for...

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.conspiracy.jfk/c/Co1hd2nf-Fw

I just found these....

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340168/
[Report concerning the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald] - The ...
May 12, 2021 — Report to Chief J. E. Curry by Ronald C. Nelson concerning his assignment and the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald. Nelson states that he was ...

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340170/
[Report from Ronald C. Nelson to Chief J. E. Curry, November ...
May 12, 2021 — Nelson, Ronald C. November 26, 1963. ContextBookmark this section. This report is part of the collection entitled: John F. Kennedy, Dallas Police ...

The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?

« Last post by Lance Payette on Today at 01:31:39 AM »

Just in case anyone actually cares about this silliness, here is what Bart actually said in 2016-2018, http://www.prayer-man.com/billy-nolan-lovelady-and-bill-shellly-did-leave-the-steps-almost-immediately-after-the-shots-were-fired/.

Look at Bart's page and decide for yourself if he is "faking" for some reason or if perhaps our two resident loons are off in the conspiracy ozone as they so often are.

I am not Bart's spokesman. I have no dog in the fight. It wouldn't change my JFKA theology if he did fake the image. I simply have no reason whatsoever to think he did, while having plenty of reason to think the resident loons are once again off in the conspiracy ozone.

And that, truly, is all I have to say about that.

I am going to put an end to this debate whether Lovelady and Shelley stayed on the steps as they claimed in their Warren Commission testimonies and to which certain people subscribe to for some obscure reason, there is just plenty to refute this rubbish assertion.

Photo evidence.

For starters, take a look at the Gerda Dunckel gifs below and check Lovelady’s shirt in the very first few frames and also check out the large still I snagged from PBS Breaking The News, click to enlarge, yes that shirt is checkered, compare it to other garments of a lighter colour or the polka dot coat which do not smudge due to motion and quality loss. Then look at Shelley, with his black suit and his facial and hair features. For reference of who we are talking about I suggest you check out Billy Lovelady’s and Bill Shelley’s pages I have made which contain plenty of photographs of these two individuals. Both pages are still under construction but there is plenty to see from a visual point of view.

Upon looking at the image by Couch we see that Shelley wears a black jacket and that Lovelady’s shirt has black horizontal stripes in it. I will place a close-up below. This is not the end result of sharpening and cannot be construed as a digital artifact. Click to enlarge the shot above and you will see that these stripes are nowhere else to be seen on this image. The polka dot coat stays as is, the camouflage/dot coat as well. And even in the light toned skirts/coats there are no such markings to be seen.

Here is a collage of Lovelady’s shirt in many settings.

Add on photographs Oct 14th 2016.

This ROKC Scan of a Couch film still at first looks very harsh and doesn’t overall have much information, but it does happen to show a lot regarding our illustrious duo. This print comes from the Richard E. Sprague Collection from the National Archives.

I applied various ways of sharpening with overall decent results to be absolutely positive that these two are Shelley and Lovelady. Lovelady’s shirt is a dead give away and so is the shape of Shelley, compare that with the collage below.

...

These statements and the Warren Commission testimonies by Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady show plenty that they did leave the steps almost immediately after the shooting and that they cannot be accounted on the steps for in the Jimmy Darnell film, besides walking westwards and being seen doing so in a better capture in the Malcolm Couch film.

The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: Quoting Common Sense

« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 01:27:21 AM »

Quote from: David Von Pein on Today at 12:56:14 AM

"If you were put in charge of framing your lone patsy on 11/22/63, would you have placed three gunmen all throughout Dealey Plaza? Or would you have fired from ONLY the Sniper's Nest in the TSBD using only your patsy's gun?

And would you allow your patsy to wander around in the lunchroom at 12:30, where he's quite likely to be seen by people AT LUNCHTIME?

What if Oswald had called in sick on November 22nd? What then? Would the plotters have re-routed the motorcade to have it pass by Ruth Paine's home in Irving?" -- DVP; April 2007

The odds of Oswald being selected to be the triggerman for the JFKA seem quite remote for reason already stated. To suggest that he was chosen to be the patsy and that he would have been such a cooperative patsy is even more far fetched. Why would Oswald have been willing to smuggle his rifle into work. I think he could put 2 and 2 together to figure out what a bad idea that would be. If one wants to believe that the plotters stole Oswald's rifle, how did they get Oswald to bring a long brown paper bag into work. Are we to believe that the bag found next to the sniper's nest with Oswald's prints on it just happened to be long enough to hold the disassembled rifle. Why were there no curtain rods in the empty paper bag found by the sniper's nest.

What if Oswald had decided to join the rest of the TSBD employees on the front steps of the TSBD. According to Ralph Cinque, that's what he did. Suppose he had returned to work and answered the roll call. Even if they found his rifle, he would have had employees ready to tell the police, "Lee was with us when the shots were fired".

If Oswald was a patsy, he had to be the most cooperative patsy ever selected to take the fall for a crime committed by somebody else. He did everything imaginable that day to make himself look guilty. This is where the CTs will tell us his "handlers" made him do all those things that incriminated him which is laughable. It reminds me of Flip Wilson's Geraldine character saying, "The devil made me do it".

The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: Shooting Strategy AI Dialogue

« Last post by Andrew Mason on Today at 01:12:19 AM »

Quote from: Charles Collins on Today at 12:10:28 AM

Yes, LHO executed a very good plan.

I created a model of the sniper’s nest and sat in it with a similar sized rifle aiming at targets located at the proper angles. An intentional early first shot makes no sense to me. That’s just one reason I think that an early first shot must have been an accidental discharge.

I would agree that a missed first shot makes no sense unless it was accidental. Although it still makes no sense why he would not be in position with his rifle pointing down Elm St. a few seconds before the car was in position for the first shot. But if there was evidence of a sudden movement of the rifle between the first and second shots, that would be compelling evidence that the first shot was made at a very different direction than the last two.

What do you make, then, of the evidence from the witnesses who saw the rifle pointing out of the window after the first shot: Howard Brennan, Amos Euins, James Worrell and Mrs. Cabell? None of them mentioned seeing any change in rifle position.

Mrs. Cabell said she looked up upon hearing the first shot and saw something sticking out of the window. Amos Euins said he saw a metal rod sticking out of the window before the shots and looked up after hearing the first shot and saw a man with a rifle in the same window and watched him fire the last two shots. Howard Brennan looked up after the first shot and saw the rifle in the window and saw him fire the last two shots and calmly withdraw the rifle from the window. James Worrell looked up at the window after hearing the first shot and saw the end of the barrel and a few inches of the wooden stock sticking out of a window and watched as it fired again.

The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: Shooting Strategy AI Dialogue

« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 01:04:56 AM »

Quote from: Charles Collins on Today at 12:10:28 AM

Yes, LHO executed a very good plan.

I created a model of the sniper’s nest and sat in it with a similar sized rifle aiming at targets located at the proper angles. An intentional early first shot makes no sense to me. That’s just one reason I think that an early first shot must have been an accidental discharge.

One aspect that Google Ai mentioned is the offset mounting of the scope. If the offset-to-the-left scope was zeroed-in for 100-feet for the Walker attempt, and remained that way on 11/22/63, then Google AI’s point about the furthest shot point of impact being slightly to the right of the point of aim might be the reason the bullet struck JFK slightly to the right side of the back of his head. I already knew that this is an issue with offset mounting of a scope, but hadn’t applied that knowledge to the JFK assassination until I read that AI point today.

We've had this discussion before. Even if Oswald only had a 5% chance of hitting his target, that's a better chance than if he didn't take the shot at all. He still had the later shots if he missed with that shot.

Oswald set up a very effective perch to fire down Elm St. I think that was his primary plan all along. But as his target approached on Houston St., I would think he would start contemplating whether taking that early shot made sense. He only had a limited amount of time to make the decision. While neither of us can know for sure what Oswald's intention was on the first shot, I can certainly understand why he would decide to take that awkward shot.

I didn't go to the trouble of creating a model of the sniper's nest but I did use a few objects to kinda sorta give me an idea the challenges that first shot would have presented in addition to the angular velocity. I have a Sears Ted Williams Model 53 .30-06 bolt action rifle which is actually a Winchester Model 70 which they slapped the Williams name on it back in the day when Sears hired Ted Williams to endorse their line of hunting and fishing equipment. Sears did that with lots of brand name products that they sold under the Sears name. It has a top mounted scope. I don't know how the trigger pull compares with the Carcano but it seems to me with my rifle, it would take a pretty good jolt for me to accidentally fire the rifle. I would think that if Oswald didn't intend on taking the early shot, there would be no reason for him to move around much. I think it would make more sense to set up in his intended shooting position and begin tracking JFK in his scope as he was passing under the tree. I don't see an early accidental discharge to be likely if he was doing that.

I'm curious as to what the minimum distance setting Oswald's scope allowed. I wonder if it could even be adjusted down to 100 yards. Do you have any information on that?

The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?

« Last post by Lance Payette on Today at 01:03:17 AM »

Quote from: Royell Storing on Yesterday at 06:43:57 PM

Here we go again. Around here, there is no such thing as "REASONABLE Proof". You either have "PROOF" or You don't. Currently, You don't! You need to raise your standards. The bar is Higher here.

Watch a lot of Rodney Dangerfield videos do you, Royell?

The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?

« Last post by Lance Payette on Today at 12:57:37 AM »

Quote from: Dan O'meara on Yesterday at 09:33:58 PM

I "peeped" repeatedly.

This is a lie.
Not once have you made the slightest attempt to answer the questions raised in this thread.
But here's your big chance.
In front of the forum.
And don't bother with your usual disappearing routine.
Answer, or attempt to answer, these two very simple questions:

How did Bart Kamp come up with the extraordinarily detailed picture of 'Lovelady' from a degraded image?
Why can't this detail be recreated from a far superior image?

Rather than your constant lies and bluster, why not actually do what you constantly claim to do.

WHAT? No, wait:

WHAT???

Now I am supposed to explain Bart's enhancement?

I have no reason to doubt, and have never doubted, long before I had ever seen Bart's enhancement, that the two figures are Shelley and Lovelady. Moreover, I don't have a cockamamie theory that requires them not to be. I don't think Bart even has a theory that requires them to be or not to be (Shakespeare!); I believe he merely determined that they clearly are.

I don't care how Bart enhanced the image. I don't know or care why you, who admitted you know nothing about image enhancement, can't seem to duplicate it. You folks raised the issue, I contacted Bart because I had previously exchanged emails with him and that seemed rather a logical thing to do, and I then challenged you folks to take it up directly with him.

My "constant lies"? What would those be?

Only in Conspiracy World can reality be turned on its head like this.

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