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31
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: When-oh-when did Clint Hill leap from the Secret Service follow-up car?
« Last post by Louis Earl on Yesterday at 02:14:51 AM »
I've always been disgusted with the SS's actions and non actions on Elm Street.  As to the specific question asked, JFK was dead when Hill stepped off the running board on the follow up car.  So, my answer is "some time between Z-313 and now." 
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Danny O'meara has quoted Secret Service Agent George Hickey!
« Last post by Tom Graves on November 23, 2025, 11:08:32 PM »
Quote from: Royell Storing on November 23, 2025, 10:49:01 PM
How difficult would it have been for an Old Guard JFK Assassination Researcher to ask SA Hickey about his "lean over"?

Dear Comrade Storing,

I was thinking the same thing.

But the problem is, Hickey may not have remembered doing it even if prompted and shown the frames in which he's leaning over and/or tilting his head down and looking at the pavement in Z-150, Z-151, Z-152, Z-153, Z-154, Z-155, Z-156, Z-157, Z-158, Z-159, Z-160, Z-161, Z-162, Z-163, Z-164, Z-165, Z-166, Z-167, Z-168 and Z-169.

In other words, at the very same time that two other Secret Service agents in the follow-up car are consciously reacting to Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot at "Z-124," and at the same time that five passengers (including JFK) in the limo are consciously reacting to it, and Rosemary Willis (who started looking back towards the TSBD at least by Z-145) is . . . yep . . . looking back towards the TSBD.

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The Old Guard was more concerned with writing $$ making books and monthly publications. This is why we see the elapsed time for the 3 shots now being extended to 11+ seconds.

Have Brian Roselle and Kenneth Scearce made money from their (correct) analysis of the conscious reactions of those seven prime witnesses to the sounds of a missing-everything shot at "Z-124" (which means the shooting lasted for 10.2 seconds)?

https://d7922adf-f499-4a26-96d4-8ab2d521fa35.usrfiles.com/ugd/d7922a_e280e26982b44f2c97c6e6e27026e385.pdf

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Also explains why I have discovered the "Getaway" car.

Yes, one can only wonder which worker in that area, having to go to a dental appointment or some-such thing and not being aware of the motorcade, ended up having to temporarily abandon their car there. 

-- Tom
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Danny O'meara has quoted Secret Service Agent George Hickey!
« Last post by Royell Storing on November 23, 2025, 10:49:01 PM »
Quote from: Tom Graves on November 23, 2025, 09:25:29 PM
The point remains that Secret Service Agent George Hickey consciously reacted to hearing Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot at ”Z- 124" by starting to lean over in Z-150 as though he was going to upchuck.

   How difficult would it have been for an Old Guard JFK Assassination Researcher to ask SA Hickey about his "lean over"? The Old Guard was more concerned with writing $$ making books and monthly publications. This is why we see the elapsed time for the 3 shots now being extended to 11+ seconds. Also explains why I have discovered the "Getaway" car. This case has simply Not been thoroughly investigated.
34
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Is John Simkin right?
« Last post by Tom Graves on November 23, 2025, 10:13:43 PM »
Quote from: Benjamin Cole on November 23, 2025, 12:50:24 PM
TG-

I don't know the answers to your questions.

Well, at least give them some thought.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Danny O'meara has quoted Secret Service Agent George Hickey!
« Last post by Tom Graves on November 23, 2025, 09:25:29 PM »
Quote from: Royell Storing on November 23, 2025, 03:11:21 PM
  I agree. This is the way that JFK Assassination Urban Legends are generated. Someone then mistakenly repeats this baloney as being a Fact. This is exactly the kinda stuff that Oliver Stone gets ragged for doing.

The point remains that Secret Service Agent George Hickey consciously reacted to hearing Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot at ”Z- 124" by starting to lean over in Z-150 as though he was going to upchuck.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: When-oh-when did Clint Hill leap from the Secret Service follow-up car?
« Last post by Tom Graves on November 23, 2025, 09:14:46 PM »
Quote from: Royell Storing on November 23, 2025, 03:19:13 PM
  Most of those SS Agents were hung over. The previous night they were hitting the hard stuff in a "Beatnik Joint" in Ft Worth. Chief Rowley's WC Testimony verifies this. The 11/22/63 SS Agents "reactions" can Not be relied on.

Which hung-over-ness, if true, may help to explain why "only" three of the eight Secret Service agents in the follow-up car consciously reacted to hearing Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot at "Z-124."
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on November 23, 2025, 09:04:39 PM »
Quote from: Jack Nessan on November 23, 2025, 03:23:04 PM
44 is just a partial list, there are many key witnesses, 73 or more, stating two shots total or the second shot was the headshot.

Two shot witnesses

 A Zapruder, Jackie, Nelly, Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, John Chism, Faye Chism, Jean Newman, Charles Brehm, Clint Hill, DPD Chaney, DPD Hargis, Sheriff Decker, Garland Slack, James Altgens, Malcolm Summers, Charles Roberts, Bonnie Ray Williams, Brennan, SA Greer, Marilyn Sitzman, Charles Hester, Beatrice Hester, SA Glenn Bennet, Ann Donaldson, Peggy Burney, Dolores Kounas, Dave Powers, Kenneth O’Donnell, SA Landis,  Ernest Brandt, James Powell, James Darnell, Hugh Betzner, Seth Kantor, Lupe Whitaker, F Lee Mudd, Ernest Brandt, Milton Wright, James Perry, JW foster, Clemon Johnson, Jack Franzen, Mrs Jack Franzen, Jeff Franzen, Ann Ruth Moore, Mary Hall, Toni Glover

Second shot was the headshot

James Jarmin, Harold Norman, SA Kellerman, Marilyn Willis, SA Kinney, SA Hickey, Mary Woodward, John Templin, Gov Connally, Mary Moorman, SA Emory Roberts, Hugh Aynesworth, Ruby Henderson, DPD Douglas Jackson, Jerry Kivett, Cliff Carter, Thomas Johns, June Dishong, Aurelia Alonzo, Margaret Brown, Georgia Ruth Hendrix

If what you say is true, it just shows how many people mistakenly thought Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot at "Z-124" was a firecracker, a backfire, a tire blowout, a distant thunder clap, or a last call for alcohol at The Cellar in the echo chamber known as Dealey Plaza, and/or how startled and traumatized they were by the whole ordeal.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Jack Nessan on November 23, 2025, 03:23:04 PM »
44 is just a partial list, there are many key witnesses, 73 or more, stating two shots total or the second shot was the headshot.

Two shot witnesses

 A Zapruder, Jackie, Nelly, Bill Newman, Gayle Newman, John Chism, Faye Chism, Jean Newman, Charles Brehm, Clint Hill, DPD Chaney, DPD Hargis, Sheriff Decker, Garland Slack, James Altgens, Malcolm Summers, Charles Roberts, Bonnie Ray Williams, Brennan, SA Greer, Marilyn Sitzman, Charles Hester, Beatrice Hester, SA Glenn Bennet, Ann Donaldson, Peggy Burney, Dolores Kounas, Dave Powers, Kenneth O’Donnell, SA Landis,  Ernest Brandt, James Powell, James Darnell, Hugh Betzner, Seth Kantor, Lupe Whitaker, F Lee Mudd, Ernest Brandt, Milton Wright, James Perry, JW foster, Clemon Johnson, Jack Franzen, Mrs Jack Franzen, Jeff Franzen, Ann Ruth Moore, Mary Hall, Toni Glover

Second shot was the headshot

James Jarmin, Harold Norman, SA Kellerman, Marilyn Willis, SA Kinney, SA Hickey, Mary Woodward, John Templin, Gov Connally, Mary Moorman, SA Emory Roberts, Hugh Aynesworth, Ruby Henderson, DPD Douglas Jackson, Jerry Kivett, Cliff Carter, Thomas Johns, June Dishong, Aurelia Alonzo, Margaret Brown, Georgia Ruth Hendrix
39
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: When-oh-when did Clint Hill leap from the Secret Service follow-up car?
« Last post by Royell Storing on November 23, 2025, 03:19:13 PM »

  Most of those SS Agents were hung over. The previous night they were hitting the hard stuff in a "Beatnik Joint" in Ft Worth. Chief Rowley's WC Testimony verifies this. The 11/22/63 SS Agents "reactions" can Not be relied on. 
40
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Danny O'meara has quoted Secret Service Agent George Hickey!
« Last post by Royell Storing on November 23, 2025, 03:11:21 PM »
Quote from: Charles Collins on November 23, 2025, 02:47:49 PM


Not really, just calling your bluff, and trying to keep the truly gullible ones from thinking this might be real.

  I agree. This is the way that JFK Assassination Urban Legends are generated. Someone then mistakenly repeats this baloney as being a Fact. This is exactly the kinda stuff that Oliver Stone gets ragged for doing.
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