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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: A question for John Corbett
« Last post by Tom Graves on Yesterday at 10:25:27 PM »
It requires an assumption to believe JFK stopped waving and turned his head at Z144 in response to hearing a gunshot.

The assumption is based on the fact that the four other passengers in the limo turned their heads within half-a-second of JFK's Z-144 head turn, the fact that Secret Service Agents Bennett and Hickey began leaning (to look at JFK and at the pavement, respectively) during the same timeframe, and Rosemary Willis turned her head away from JFK/Jackie and towards the TSBD just before JFK quickly turned his head to his left.

Quote
It doesn't require an assumption to believe JBC's turn at Z164 was in response to a shot. He told us that's what he did.

JBC, who was looking to his right, quickly turned his head to his left in Z-150, and in your beloved Z-164 quickly turned his head back to his right to see if JFK was okay.

Your theory is based on "jiggle analysis" and the assumption that JBC began his quick head turns in Z-164.

Why do you suppose JBC quicky turned his head to his left in Z-150?
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Hi James,

 My  Z frames are from the MPI DVD, I just brightened them up a little. 
I hope this frame 230 is what you need.


Best regards,
 Steve

 Z-230" border="0

   In addition to the position of JFK's hands, this clear still frame displays how cramped Gov Connally was in that jump seat. No MAN normally holds their Stetson Hat like a woman clutching a baby to her chest. The dipping of the (R) shoulder is being done to permit Connally making his (R) turnaround in these very cramped conditions. There is extremely little space between the Jump Seat and the side of the car. This was made obvious when Connally was seated in the JFK Limo at Love Field. They had to be careful when closing that rear passenger door and Not banging Connally's (R) leg with that door. In order to turn and face JFK in the backseat behind him, Connally had to manipulate his (R) Arm to make that turn around. The dipping of the (R) shoulder permitted Connally to turn around and face JFK.   
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I guess you didn't notice he is in the process of flipping his injured right arm upward, a motion he began at exactly the same frame JFK's arms started moving upward, frame Z226. The reacted at the same time because they were shot at the same time. Well, a couple milliseconds apart. Close enough.

   That's Wrong! Connally's (R) Arm does not move "upward".  His (R) shoulder DIPS, therefore his (R) arm is Dropping. Connally is turning around in the cramped Jump Seat area in order to face JFK and see what was going on in the Limo backseat. This is why we Never see Connally's (R) arm higher than the (R) side of the Limo.
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Ann Donaldson, Woodward's roommate, clears up Woodward's confusion. She states there were only two shots. Just like the majority of the other eyewitnesses. Brown and Alonzo must have agreed.
Ann Donaldson said there were three shots in her Sixth Floor Oral History - the relevant parts are around the 20:00 minute mark.  She said there was a loud noise - the first shot - and then two more shots. 

You shouldn't believe everything you read in newspapers. Sometimes reporters get things wrong.
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Steve could you post one more frame from the MPI set. That would be frame Z325 if you would please. That will be the last frame I promise.
Thanks...James

It would be more valuable to post Z223-Z226. Comparing Z223 to Z224 shows the moment JBC's jacket bulged out from the bullet that exited from just below his right nipple. Comparing Z224 to Z225 shows that his right arm was still moving down at the time he came into full view from behind the sign. Comparing Z225 to Z226 shows that JFK's arms started upward at frame Z226 and also show that JBC's right arm started upward at the same time.
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What nonsense. Eyewitnesses are the least reliable form of evidence. Convictions can be and often are obtained solely on forensic evidence. There was a witness who saw Oswald fire the final shot but his ID of Oswald is probably the least compelling piece of evidence against Oswald. The case can be made entirely on the forensic evidence. That evidence includes finger and palm prints, fiber evidence, ballistic matching, medical evidence, film evidence, and a paper trail proving Oswald ordered and was the owner of the murder weapon. There isn't a scrap of any of the above types of evidence that indicates there was a second shooter. All the forensic evidence points to Oswald alone.
I don't know where you got your understanding of constitutional law but nowhere in the Constitution does it say eyewitness accounts are required to obtain a conviction nor does it say eyewitness accounts should be accepted at face value. I've served on four juries, two civil and two criminal. Each time the judge instructed us to weigh the credibility of the witnesses based on a number of factors. I was on a murder trial where we had both eyewitness and forensic evidence. The only disagreement among the jurors was whether the element of premeditation had been proven. I was one of two who believed it had not and we prevailed.  We convicted the accused of the lesser charge. I also sat on a trial in a check forgery case. The prosecution presented no eyewitnesses to the crime yet the forensic evidence was so convincing we convicted the guy in less than an hour. Eyewitnesses are not end all, be all nor should they be.
Correction. They saw SMOKE. Modern gun smoke does not billow. It dissipates almost immediately and if it had been fired from behind the fence, it wouldn't have made it into the clear for anybody on the overpass to see it. Lots of people had different ideas about where the sounds indicated the shots came from. Some said all three shots came from the GK and some said all three came from the direction of the TSBD. The three spent shells in the sniper's nest tells us which group got it right.
It's not called eye witness accounts in legalese terms for the simple reason human beings have five senses not just sight. It is termed witness to the fact which must be first hand for it to be credible. For example Nell and John Connally in their testimony stated that they did not see the shot which blew apart Jack kennedy's head but both said they heard it and felt it. By that they meant they heard the impact and felt the blood and brain tissue hit their bodies. Two people of sound mind and impeccable integrity, that's as good as you'll get from inside the limo. They also stated that the shot that hit Kennedy in the neck was two seconds before the one that hit John Connally. They never changed their story - ever.
You cannot cherry pick the statements of the Connally's just because Arlen Specter came up with the notion that it was a single bullet that hit both Kennedy and Connally. At some point in this assassination you have to start believing people who were in the limo not some dude in a suit making up strange bullet theories.
In my previous post I called Brennan a liar. The reason being, it is impossible for a witness to see the height of a gunman through a brick wall and boxes and his build, whether he's nice looking or not and how much he weighs yet the Dallas police acted on it and the Warren commission believed it too. The same commission then ignored two statements from high status witnesses who were actually in the limo!!!!!
When does common sense prevail? When does this nonsense stop?
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Oh well, just another long wait for nothing.....

Who's saying your dumb ass has to wait?

Instead of criticizing the work of someone who is actually getting something done (before having even seen the work, no less), why not do something yourself?

Troll.  But we already knew that.
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Brennan has been proven to be a liar. The warren Commission stipulated that Oswald used three boxes as a rifle rest and he was angled pointing the rifle  towards the triple underpass and the route the motorcade was taking. Most of Oswald's body was obscured by the boxes he was using as a rifle rest yet Brennan stated this:"He was a white man in his early 30s, slender, nice-looking, and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds". he also stated Oswald was 5' 10" tall. Brennan was at a 45 degree angle looking up at the building and he couldn't see Oswald's legs, he couldn't possibly know how high the window ledge was from the floor of that room without going in it so how could he conclude the sniper was 5' 10"? I'm sorry but you can't look into a window from a 45 degree angle from 100 feet way and know someone's height, weight and build unless you are superman and can see through brick walls. Many have suspected than Brennan was part of the patsy crew and I don't blame them. As for the black guys interpretation; even the Warren commission denied the rifle was hung out of the building 12 inches. They stated the tip of the barrel was resting at the end of the boxes.

Brennan's ID of Oswald was the least compelling piece of evidence against Oswald and would not have been needed to convict Oswald of murdering JFK had the case gone to trial. The real value of Brennan's account is that he established the shooter's location. Within minutes he told a cop where he had seen the shooter fired the third shot from and he was corroborated by finding of 3 shells at the window Brennan pointed out and also by the finding of the murder weapon on the same floor a short distance away. The forensic evidence alone would have been enough to easily convict Oswald.
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Zelenskyy was not in office in 2014 - in fact Ukraine went thru 3 Presidents that year.
Big talk. Once again, I really don't know what you are arguing. That was 12 years ago. meanwhile;

Here are 53 times Trump said he’d end Ukraine war within 24 hours or before taking office

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/25/politics/fact-check-trump-ukraine-war

Ugh.  You suddenly "don't know what I'm arguing"?   You claimed that there was no conflict between Russia and Ukraine under Obama.  Who was our president in 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea (an important part of Ukraine)?  Here is a hint.  It was not Trump.  Riddle me this.  Trump, Putin, or Zelensky?  Which has suspended elections in his country with no end in sight?  Trump or Obama?  Who has provided military aid to Ukraine and who refused to do so for fear of Russia?
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Brennan has been proven to be a liar. The warren Commission stipulated that Oswald used three boxes as a rifle rest and he was angled pointing the rifle  towards the triple underpass and the route the motorcade was taking. Most of Oswald's body was obscured by the boxes he was using as a rifle rest yet Brennan stated this:"He was a white man in his early 30s, slender, nice-looking, and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds". he also stated Oswald was 5' 10" tall. Brennan was at a 45 degree angle looking up at the building and he couldn't see Oswald's legs, he couldn't possibly know how high the window ledge was from the floor of that room without going in it so how could he conclude the sniper was 5' 10"? I'm sorry but you can't look into a window from a 45 degree angle from 100 feet way and know someone's height, weight and build unless you are superman and can see through brick walls. Many have suspected than Brennan was part of the patsy crew and I don't blame them. As for the black guys interpretation; even the Warren commission denied the rifle was hung out of the building 12 inches. They stated the tip of the barrel was resting at the end of the boxes.
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