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31
"Kamp is outright lying when he said Stanton and Frazier both located Stanton to Frazier's left" ...


Oswald's Friend Buell Frazier Gestures That Sarah Stanton Was Standing To His Left

32
General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. And International Politics
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 09:51:32 AM »
Just curious:

Could Vladimir Putin have installed anyone worse for our country than Donald Trump?
33
I am aware of those narratives.

"Narratives"?

Quote
I know the three KGB officers were filmed and recorded telling Gus Russo that they had in fact met the real LHO in MC.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Oleg Nechiporenko (who implausibly devoted fifty pages of his book, "Passport to Assassination," to how stupid Tennent H. Bagley was to not realize that Major I mean Lt. Col. I mean Captain Yuri Nosenko was a true defector), Pavel Yatskov, and Valery Kostikov!!!

One should always believe what "former" KGB'ers say, especially Colonel Nikolai Leonov (aka "The Blond Oswald in Mexico City"), whom James Angleton spoke about in his Church Committee testimony and who implausibly told National Enquirer on 11/22/93 that a weeping and revolver-brandishing Oswald dropped in on HIM at the Embassy (not the Consulate) on SUNDAY, September 29!!!

"Former" KGB'ers always tell the truth!!!

Quote
I gather Gus Russo more leans towards Castro's G2 / DGI being involved with LHO. That my best guess too.

Yes, we know.


34
TG-

I am aware of those narratives.

I know the three KGB'ers all told Gus Russo, and were filmed and recorded, that they had in fact met the real LHO in MC.

I have little doubt but that LHO met with three KGB'ers on a Saturday, at the Russian Embassy, in MC.

There seems to be a blur about whether Kostikov was in fact Dept. 13. There is not doubt he had other assets in the US.

I gather Russo more leans towards G2, DGI'ers being involved with LHO. That my best guess too.
35

"Conspiracy theorists can pretend all the evidence is fake if they want to. But, in my opinion, the evidence against Oswald could not possibly exist in the abundant quantities it exists in if Lee Oswald had been an innocent patsy.

In addition, Oswald's own actions are telling us a lot. Do CTers think Oswald's own actions and movements are "fake" too? Like when he twice lied to Buell Frazier about "curtain rods". And when he left the TSBD within minutes of JFK's shooting. And when he shot Officer Tippit within 45 minutes of JFK's murder. And when he fought like mad with the cops in the theater, while uttering things that drip with his guilt.

Those are actions I'm supposed to either ignore...or interpret as things that add up to Lee Harvey Oswald's INNOCENCE? Is that right? Come now. Nobody could examine Oswald's actions on BOTH November 21st and 22nd and come to the conclusion that Oswald was merely being used as a fall guy. Oswald's actions incriminate OSWALD, and no one else."
-- DVP; February/March 2015
36

"The argument that Oswald was the tool of a high-level conspiracy does seem plausible, until one tries to fit it into the context these theorists always leave out -- the personality and background of Lee Harvey Oswald, the individual." -- Jean Davison; Page 25 of "Oswald's Game"
37


Reprinted below are some excerpts from my website linked above.

Feel free to add your own comments and JFKA observations, but don't forget to include the Common Sense with each comment. That's very important in this thread....

--------------------------------

"Given the alignment of the two limo victims at the time of the shooting, plus the location of the only known shooter in Dealey Plaza, plus the fact that no bullets were found in JFK's body at all, plus the fact that a whole bullet which positively came out of the gun that was found on the sixth floor of the TSBD was found inside the hospital where the two victims were taken, plus the fact that the two injured limo victims reacted to an external stimulus at precisely the same moment in time on the Zapruder Film....I wonder how anyone in 2022 (or any other year or millennium) can be so blind as to not accept the Single-Bullet Theory as fact." -- David Von Pein [DVP]; September 28, 2022

--------------------------------

"If there is a suspicious fire, the [conspiracy-minded] kooks would investigate the firemen who respond, and ignore the guy with the wicked grin that smells of gasoline." -- Bud; November 22, 2007




[More to come....]
38
Lance, I was not familiar with any strong case for this starting with an incoming call. The Dallas PD jail was in the same building as the city offices and its switchboard which
handled all call traffic.

I am unfamiliar with lock up prisoners anywhere enjoying incoming call privileges.... are you?

Which is more likely, LHO places the name in the record of an obscure drunk with a strained relationship with the truth,
or he was attempting to send a message to the most secret, secret agency budgeted annually with more funding than the CIA.
He allegedly even managed to put that name in the investigative record in the latter part of the 48 hours after the JFKA that LHO was permitted to live.

WC member John McCloy's WWII responsibilties included being initial receiver of John Hurt's Japanese diplomatic comms decoded by Purple.

This John B, Hurt's wife, Ana's professional and maiden name was Drittel or Drittal. LHO was accused of writing that name as reference on a revolver purchase mail order App.

LHO allegedly told his brother he had contact(s) in high places....

https://www.nsa.gov/portals/75/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/cryptologic-spectrum/translator.pdf
Fall 1976
John Hurt
A Translator Extraordinaire
A tribute to one of the original seven involved
in the Signals Intelligence Service

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_Kullback
Solomon Kullback (April 3, 1907 – August 5, 1994) was an American cryptanalyst and mathematician, who was one of the first three employees hired by William F. Friedman at the US Army's Signal Intelligence Service (SIS) in the 1930s, along with Frank Rowlett and Abraham Sinkov. He went on to a long and distinguished career at SIS and its eventual successor, the National Security Agency (NSA). Kullback was the Chief Scientist at the NSA until his retirement in 1962,
....
At the suggestion of Abraham Sinkov, who showed him a Civil Service flyer for "junior mathematicians" at US$2,000 per year, he took the examination. Both passed, and were assigned to Washington, D.C. as junior cryptanalysts.
....
Upon arrival in Washington, Kullback was assigned to William F. Friedman. Friedman had begun an intensive program of training in cryptology for his new civilian employees. For several summers running, the SIS cryptanalysts attended training camps at Fort Meade until they received commissions as reserve officers in the Army. Kullback and Sinkov took Friedman's admonitions on education seriously and spent the next several years attending night classes; both received their doctorates in mathematics. Afterward, Kullback rediscovered a love of teaching; he began offering evening classes in mathematics at George Washington University from 1939.

Once they had completed the training, the three were put to the work for which they had actually been hired, compilations of cipher or code material for the U.S. Army. Another task was to test commercial cipher devices which vendors wished to sell to the U.S. government.

Kullback worked in partnership with Frank Rowlett against RED cipher machine messages. Almost overnight, they unravelled the keying system and then the machine pattern – with nothing but the intercepted messages in hand. Using the talents of linguist John Hurt to translate text, SIS started issuing current intelligence to military decision-makers...

The stepfather of the US Navy officer who Demohrenschildt was sniffing around the home of in 1942...

Carl, the stepfather of Paul Joachim is Charles,,,,:

Quote
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/17411-discussing-the-mindset-of-conspiracy-theorists/page/3/#comment-220299

Google Books search result :
...
Betrayal at Pearl Harbor: how Churchill lured Roosevelt into World ...

James Rusbridger, Eric Nave - 1991 - 302 pages - Snippet view
Found inside – Page 60

... was that they only had two radio operators capable of receiving and transcribing kana texts from Morse code transmissions. Safford solved this by designing a typewriter which he called a special code machine.33 On 26 November 1924, he sent details to John T. Underwood of the Underwood Typewriter Company, who examined Safford's specifications with his chief designer, Charles A. Joerissen. Two weeks later, on 10 December, they offered to build Safford four such machines for $645. The makers called them the Underwood Code Machine,...




The Signals Intelligence Service in 1935 Seated: Mrs. Louise Newkirk Nelson; Standing, left to right: Mr. H.F. Bearce (later Lieutenant Colonel), Dr. Solomon Kullback (WWII Colonel), Captain Harrod G Miller, Mr. William F. Friedman, Dr. A. Sinkov (WWII Colonel), Lieutenant L.T. Jones, USCG, and Mr. Frank B. Rowlett. Mr. John B. Hurt was ill when the picture was taken
Link to above photo caption :
https://www.marshallfoundation.org/articles-and-features/breaking-purple-in-william-friedmans-own-words/


The full 1935 photo this crop was taken from includes a caption describing Miller as instructor, the caption ends with John B Hurt was absent that day.


Miller is about 32 in this 1935 crop of the "Think" photo.
Harrod George Miller and William Friedman, circa mid 1930's

Highest marksman score in the history of the USMA worked for what evolve into a secret org, hoovering up and recording all domestic and key foreign comms.

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency
....
Originating as a unit to decipher coded communications in World War II, it was officially formed as the NSA by President Harry S. Truman in 1952. Between then and the end of the Cold War, it became the largest of the U.S. intelligence organizations in terms of personnel and budget. Still, information available as of 2013 indicates that the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) pulled ahead in this regard, with a budget of $14.7 billion.[6][14] ...

USMA, class of 1925 :



Quote
https://cornwall.historyarchives.online/viewer?i=f&d=01011916-12312025&k=harrod&m=between&ord=k1&fn=the_cornwall_local_usa_new_york_cornwall_19250618_english_1&df=1&dt=10&cid=3422
Cornwall, NY June 18, 1925
....
... Miss Jean Nelson, daughter of Mr. and Mrs.
Peter Nelson of Firthcliffe, became
the bride of Lieut. Harrod George
Miller. ‘...

"...Miss Nelson was one of Firthcliffe’s
most popular girls. For some years
she has been in government employ
in the Post Exchange at West Point.
Lieut, Miller was graduated last Fri-
day morning with the class of 1925
of ttie United States Military Acade-
my. During the four years as a cadet
at West Point, Lieut. Miller distin-
guished himself as an honor studen.
He wore silver stars on his collar,
signifying that he ranked as one of
the five highest in his class. He was
graduated seventh in his class of two
hundred and forty-four memhers, mak-
ing his record as a cadet one of the
best. A Yale scholarship was won by
Lieut. Miller and at the opening of
the fall term he will enter Yale to
take a special course...."

Quote
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/17411-discussing-the-mindset-of-conspiracy-theorists/page/3/#comment-220299

On 2/28/2011 at 3:50 AM, Tom Scully said:
Was the scenario involving James K. Cogswell III, actually a multi agency effort to deflect the HSCA's attention away from ONI? Too many coincidences... Cogswell had been married to the daughter of Will Farish III's inheritance trustee; Farish became GHW Bush's "best friend." De Mohrenshildt's 1942, Washington DC housemate, later Rear Admiral Harry Hull's wife was Cogswell's first cousin. Their landlord, later retired Rear Admiral Paul L. Joachim was brutally shot to death in Oct., 1962. Joachim's step-father was the designer of US Navy codebreakers' first Underwood Code Machine aka the Kata-Kana Typewriter. Carl A. Joerissen became Paul Joachim's stepfather when Paul was 8 years old.

Later, four star Navy Admiral William K Phillips became Harry Hull's step-uncle when Harry was 13 years old. Cogswell's sister, Theodora, is referred to as being part of the OP, by the HSCA. One of Cogswell's aunts, wife of his uncle, Capt. Francis Cogswell, retired from the CIA in 1954. His other aunt, Bianca Harrington Cogswell, daughter of Admiral James K Cogswell, I, first married a man named Clement, and then married Capt. Donald C. Bingham. When her daughter, Louisa, married Harry Hull, Cogswell's aunt became Harry's mother-in-law. Cogswell III brought Joseph Dryer and his knowledge of De Mohrenschildt to the attention of Dorothe Matlack...

Rand's son "ran" The other Oswald, defectotr to the Soviet Union, Robert Webster
Quote
https://oztypewriter.blogspot.com/2021/04/taking-it-home-to-place-it-belongs-west.html
....
As far as Joerissen’s interests were concerned, the most telling decision by Underwood came in June 1929, when it negotiated a five-year deal with Remington Rand to pay for the rights to use Remington’s patents covering the Remington Noiseless. Remington Rand chairman James H. Rand Jr told stockholders at their annual meeting in July 1929....
39
My exposure of the Wilmouth fraud did cause that claim to disappear from the H&L site. Now, it was Waldman, VP of Klein's, and DAVID BELIN who should have noticed the absence of the critical bank stamps:

Waldman was a middle age businessman, and VP of Klein's Sporting Goods. David Belin was an attorney, with years of experience in business matters. Either of these men could have examined the front and back side of postal money order 2,202,130,462, looking for a bank stamp that showed the date of deposit. The absence of a dated bank stamp on a check, money order, or bank draft, would cause most business people and bankers to conclude the item was never deposited to a bank or cashed. The fact that Belin did not ask Waldman about a dated bank stamp on the money order is very suspicious, and suggests that Belin intentionally refrained from asking this question. And for a very good reason. If the money order was never deposited, then Kleins would not have shipped C2766 to Oswald. He could not have shot at General Walker. His photo holding the rifle would not have appeared on the cover of Life Magazine. He could not have carried the rifle to the 6th floor of the TSBD. He could not have shot and killed JFK.

https://harveyandlee.net/Mail_Order_Rifle/Mail_Order_Rifle.html

You can't make this stuff up. No, wait - apparently you CAN!  :D
40
Alas, when I departed the Ed Forum, I deleted in their entirety all of my posts going back several years in one three-hour binge. I had started a "Raleigh phone call" thread, but my original post with my research is gone and no one who responded quoted my original post in its entirety. Since Greg Parker agreed it was "good work," it must have been a winner!  :D All I can remember now is that by the time of the call Hurt was an alcoholic mental case who admitted he had made the call - i.e., it was an incoming call by Hurt - and the woman who wrote the call slip and the woman who found it were bitterly at odds as to what had occurred. In any event, I was and am 100% satisfied it is much ado about nothing.

Here is the thread: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/28717-the-raleigh-phone-call-an-examination-of-the-call-slip-factoid/

Steve Roe, Gerry Down and others agreed with my analysis, and Steve pointed out that David Lifton had spoken at great length with Hurt decades earlier and was satisfied he was an alcoholic mental case. Greg Doudna, perhaps predictably, had his "alternative take" on what had occurred. Niederwacky predictably went into "Lance the cognitive infiltrator" mode; he also referred to me as "our buglioser," which was at least halfway witty.  :D :D :D Jimbo also got in his shots.

Here is Gerry Down's summary of his understanding, so it must be close to what I had written. In any event, this was a full-scale factoid exploration by me and involved a lot of work.

So let me get this straight. This theory is that a drunk John Hurt phoned the DPD looking for Oswald on Nov 23rd to have a talk. He gave Mrs Swinney his name and where he was from (John Hurt of Raleigh, North Carolina). Then John Hurt hung up - maybe he thought it was not a good idea to have a drunken chat with Oswald so late at night afterall, or the wife caught him and made him hang up. Mrs Swinney writes down on a piece of paper the name of “John Hurt” of “Raleigh, North Carolina”. Mrs Swinney then phones Oswald in his cell about this John Hurt. Oswald says he had no idea who John Hurt is. Meanwhile Mrs Alveeta comes in to work perhaps about 10:50pm and she briefly listens in on this conversation with Oswald before then going off the line and leaving Oswald and Mrs Swinney to talk in private.

All during this time there were two Secret Service agents in the room and hear about this John Hurt that was trying to contact Oswald. At this stage Mrs Swinney decided to try and find out (possibly on the orders of the Secret Service or on her own initiative) who this John Hurt was from Raleigh North Carolina. So she phones the operator directory assistance in North Carolina where they look through their phonebook and give her the names of presumably the only two John Hurts in Raleigh North Carolina. So she takes the previous piece of paper she had on which she had written the name of “John Hurt” and “Raleigh, North Carolina” and now adds the two possible phone numbers given to her by the operator directory assistance in North Carolina. Mrs Swinney then places two outgoing calls to each of these John Hurts in the hope of reaching the drunk guy who had rang her, but neither answer. The nosy Mrs Alveeta sees Mrs Swinney making these two outgoing calls and presumes she is making them on Oswalds behalf. As neither John Hurt answers the phone, Mrs Swinney  views the whole endeavor pointless and throws the piece of paper in the bin.

When Mrs Swinney goes off work at 11pm, Mrs Alveeta retrieves the piece of paper from the bin and proceeds to make up a call sheet with the data on it as a souvenir for her daughter but because she only arrived in at 10:50pm AFTER John Hurt had phoned in, and only hears the start of the phone conversation in which Mrs Swinney talks to Oswald about a John Hurt, Mrs Alveeta thinks that it was Oswald looking for John Hurt rather than the other way around – John Hurt looking for Oswald. As the Secret Service had witnessed the events surrounding the call, after Oswald is assassinated Secret Service agent Kelley makes some brief enquiries to see if there is any “John Heard” on their books who could be linked to Oswald, which shows up negative.

This theory would mean the following:

Mrs Alveeta was being honest in so far as her understanding that Oswald was trying to contact a John Hurt.
Mrs Swinney is telling the truth when she says Oswald was not trying to contact any John Hurt. Mrs Swinney probably thought no more of the John Hurt call as a crank call from a drunken idiot.
The long suffering wife of John Hurt was telling the truth when she said that her husband had drunkenly phoned the DPD looking for Oswald on the night of Nov 23rd.
John Hurt himself was being honest in the years after the incident when he said he didn't know Oswald.

I'm not familiar with how switchboards worked in 1963 (i.e. how Mrs Swinney would phone Oswald in his cell, or how she would look for numbers from operator directory assistance in North Carolina etc). If anyone sees any mistake in my understanding of how these sets of phonecalls were made, please let me know.


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