JFK Assassination Forum

    Those "2 Guys" alongside the "getaway" car above, just exited that vehicle. DPD Officer Smith, (on the (L)), just ran past the driver side of their car, and they witnessed DPD Motorcycle officer Baker, ( running behind them), rounding the corner and parking his motorcycle along the Elm St Curb. All of this is happening about 20 seconds after the Kill Shot. These conspirators did Not anticipate law enforcement being all around them this quickly. They are now distancing themselves from this "getaway" car and heading toward the "wide open" Huge Gates. Their expected passenger(s) would soon be exiting those same "wide open" Huge Gates.

It looks to me in both Kamps image as well as the darker image that the guy is wearing a SHORT sleeve shirt .

In my made up scenario the pics above show Bill Shelley in New Orleans hanging around with the Pro-Castro crowd. This can possibly tied in with his reported CIA affiliations (or not)
Oswald is part of the same crowd. This way Shelley can know who Oswald is and that he is a Pro-Castro Marxist. He can also know about Oswald being an ex-Marine who defected to Russia. Shelley can set up Oswald telling him that he is part of some Pro-Castro stunt at the TSBD.
Another handy piece of evidence are the reports that Oswald included Bill Shelley as part of his alibi for leaving the TSBD on the day of the assassination. While being questioned Oswald reportedly said he only left the TSBD as a result of a conversation with Shelley. Oswald is not stupid. He knows its the easiest thing in the world for this alibi to be checked, so he must have been fully expecting Shelley to back him up. If he had no relationship with Shelley he would never have mentioned him and he wouldn't expect Shelley to back him up if it was a lie.
Why would Oswald expect Bill Shelley to cover for him>

On the day of the assassination Shelley and Lovelady gave affidavits to the Dallas Police Department.
These are the initial statements they made regarding their activities around the time of the assassination.
By "initial" I mean that these are the very first official statements they made.
In his affidavit Shelley basically said that, after the shots he ran across the Elm Street Extension, met Gloria Calvery coming the other way, returned to the building and went inside to phone his wife.
In his affidavit Lovelady states that after the shooting he went back inside the building.

In their later lies both men insist that after the shooting they stood on the steps for around 3 minutes, spoke with Gloria Calvery, wandered across to the concrete spur that divides the Elm Streets, saw Truly and Baker outside the building, wandered down to the railroad yard where they stayed for a few minutes, then entered the building via the little known west door.
Both men forget to mention all this in their initial statements because what they actually did was as follows:

Both men were stood on the front steps when the shots were fired.
Shelley ran across the extension and bumped into a distraught Gloria Calvery who was screaming that the President had been shot. He ran back to the steps with her while she told Lovelady, and everyone else on the steps about the shooting. While this was happening Baker arrives and goes up the front steps into the lobby. Shelley, Lovelady and Truly go up the steps and enter the lobby. Shelley and Lovelady make their way to the back of the first floor while Baker is talking to Truly. Adams sees Shelley and Lovelady as she races to the back door. Seconds later Baker and Truly arrive on the scene where Baker sees the two white men who can only be Shelley and Lovelady.

   Thanks. You basically believe Shelley and Lovelady lied in their WC Testimonies.
   Your having Lovelady and Shelley go through the TSBD front door and then walk back to the freight elevator, throws off the WC timeline of Truly and Baker going back there. And likewise, Baker then confronting Oswald inside the 2nd floor lunchroom. You are resetting those timelines. 

According  to Lovelady in WC testimony, He said he left the steps  and went out about 100 yds and then he went back  into the TSBD by the WEST side door( at the northwest side of TSBD) .  He estimated about 3 minutes had elapsed from having left the front steps to having returned to enter the TSBD. 

I take it Dan has concluded that Lovelady  and Shelley are fabricating this story of leaving the front steps and they were doing that to discredit Adams /Stiles 60 sec time estimate reaching the ground  floor because that puts  Dorothy Garners leaving the 4th floor office as soon as 30 secs post shots. Thus, No way Oswald could not be seen by Garner if that timeline was reasonably established via Adams seeing Lovelady at the rear elevators.

So it may be  that the WC wanted to  avoid Dorothy Garner since they did not call her as a witness. And if Adams is to be believed that she saw Lovelady  when she got to the 1st floor by 60 secs post shots, then it’s not implausible that the WC might decide that Adams time should  be established based on Loveladys 3 minute timeline.

My problem is I find it hard to believe that Lovelady and Shelly who had nothing to gain and whom would be taking a quit a risk of perjury  would go this extent of fabricating a story and giving WC testimony to substantiate it.

 What other possibility other than some alteration of the Darnell film using the Wiegman film image of Lovelady ( presumably him) on the steps and the conspirators missed seeing those 2 guys that look like Lovelady and Shelley?

No-one has a clue why Oswald might have wanted to kill JFK. He has no motive whatsoever.

Fritz was the one of the last people to spend considerable time with Oswald.

Mr. DULLES. Have you any views of your own as to motive from your talks with him? Did you get any clues as to possible motive in assassinating the President?
Mr. FRITZ. I can only tell you what little I know now. I am sure that we have people in Washington here that can tell far more than I can.
Mr. DULLES. Well, you saw the man and the others didn't see the man.
Mr. FRITZ. I got the impression, I got the impression that he was doing it because of his feeling about the Castro revolution, and I think that he felt, he had a lot of feeling about that revolution.
(At this point the Chief Justice entered the hearing room.)

Mr. FRITZ. I think that was the reason. I noticed another thing. I noticed a little before when Walker was shot, he had come out with some statements about Castro and about Cuba and a lot of things and if you will remember the President had some stories a few weeks before his death about Cuba and about Castro and some things, and I wondered if that didn't have some bearing. I have no way of knowing that other than just watching him and talking to him. I think it was his feeling about his belief in being a Marxist, I think he had--he told me he had debated in New Orleans, and that he tried to get converts to this Fair Play for Cuba organization, so I think that was his motive. I think he was doing it because of that.

Oswald in New Orleans handing out "Hands off Cuba" leaflets



Oswald's "Fair play for Cuba" membership card where he was also the Chapter President.



Three days before Oswald killed Kennedy, there was this newspaper article in the Dallas Times Herald of Kennedy saying that it would be a happy day if the Castro government was ousted.



Oswald's personal possessions had a collection of positive Castro literature.



In late September, Oswald was in Mexico City requesting a visa to travel to Cuba.

Mr. CORNWELL. Senor Azcue, this particular document bears the name Lee Harvey Oswald, and the date September 27, 1963. Do you recall the occasion upon which this application was filed with your consulate?
Senor AZCUE. Fine. This gentleman wants me to narrate the antecedents of the visits of this individual to the consulate. Is that the nature of the question?
Mr. CORNWELL. That is correct. If you recall the occasion on which this specific application was filed, would you describe that occasion for us.
Senor AZCUE. Certainly, with pleasure. Yes, this gentleman appeared on the date indicated at the consulate, requesting a visa to travel to Cuba. This gentleman was referred to, as was the usual practice in the consulate, to Mrs. Sylvia Duran, a Mexican citizen, who was responsible for handling these contacts with persons applying for such visas.

A week after the Dallas Herald Times reported that Walker wanted to  "liquidate the [communist] scourge that has descended upon the island of Cuba" Oswald ordered his rifle and not long after Oswald took photos of General Walkers house and a little later Oswald tried to kill General Walker.

In February 1963, Walker joined Billy Hargis on an anti-communist tour named "Operation Midnight Ride".[24] In a speech Walker made on March 5, reported in the Dallas Times Herald, he called on the United States military to "liquidate the [communist] scourge that has descended upon the island of Cuba."[25] Seven days later, Lee Harvey Oswald ordered a Carcano rifle by mail, using the alias "A. Hidell".[26]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Walker



Do the Math!

JohnM