JFK Assassination Forum

JohnM

I was wondering just how long it would take before your childish nature would manifest itself.

Always desperately looking for gotcha moments, to satisfy your massive ego.
Not capable to have a normal conversation and unable to deal with evidence honestly.
That's you.

If you constantly misrepresent what people say, you've lost the argument even before you made it.

I asked you which CTs believe what you claimed and as per usual you can't answer.

Of course DE 163 was at the Paine residence on 11/21/63. If it hadn't been Oswald couldn't have worn it to the TSBD the next day.

If you constantly misrepresent what people say, you've lost the argument even before you made it.

I never said ALL CT's, I simply said CT's and since this theory is shared by yourself and Capasse, the two CT's currently debating harassing me, then I never misrepresented anyone.

Of course DE 163 was at the Paine residence on 11/21/63. If it hadn't been Oswald couldn't have worn it to the TSBD the next day.

Yep, Oswald wore it from the Depostory to Irving on the 21st, so you're right again CE163 was at the Paine residence on the 21st!

JohnM

So you don't believe that CE163 was at the Paine's residence prior to Oswald arriving on the 21st, good, finally we're getting somewhere.

JohnM

If you constantly misrepresent what people say, you've lost the argument even before you made it.

I asked you which CTs believe what you claimed and as per usual you can't answer.

Of course CE 163 was at the Paine residence on 11/21/63. If it hadn't been Oswald couldn't have worn it to the TSBD the next day.

Tell me that's not funny.
A dotted outline showing where the evidence should be!
There can be no better example of the staggering incompetence of the DPD's investigation.

I'm assuming the LN narrative runs along the following lines:
Oswald waited for the 6th floor crew to break for lunch and, when he had the floor to himself, he collected the stashed rifle bag and took it to the southeast corner where he prepared the Sniper's Perch. He took the disassembled rifle from the paper bag and placed the now empty bag to one side while he assembled the rifle.

The final report of the Warren Commission is a string of lies, omissions and falsifications designed to demonstrate the pre-ordained Lone Assassin narrative. One of the most brazen lies contained in the report is the claim, made on more than one occasion, that Charles Givens was the last TSBD employee to see Oswald prior to the assassination and that he saw Oswald in the vicinity of the southeast corner of the 6th floor.
The Givens issue has been dealt with in detail by others such as Sylvia Meagher and Pat Speer and there is little doubt this belated addition to his account of events is a pack of lies told at the behest of the WC itself.
But Givens was not the last TSBD employee to see Oswald prior to the assassination - Eddie Piper was.
Piper testified that, as he broke for lunch at 12:00pm, he had a conversation with Oswald ON THE FIRST FLOOR. This makes complete sense when we take into account the collective statements of the floor-laying crew and their elevator race after breaking for lunch. Each day the floor-laying crew would race the elevators down to the first floor after breaking for lunch. The day of the assassination was no different. Charles Givens was in one elevator and the other three members of the crew were in the other. As the race got under way Oswald appeared on the fifth floor asking Givens to let him on the elevator. Givens refused, he was racing after all, so Oswald called after them to make sure to close the gates on the elevator so he could call it back up.
Far from hiding in the shadows, biding his time, Oswald was clearly looking to get down to the first floor. At some point after this Oswald makes his way down to the first floor and has his interaction with Eddie Piper.
The WC Sham brushed all this testimony under the carpet in the final report because they had to disguise a very inconvenient fact - while Oswald was on the first floor having his interaction with Eddie Piper, Bonnie Ray Williams had collected his lunch and made his way back up to the 6th floor where, according to the WC, he took up position just a few yards away from the SN to have his lunch. The importance of this fact was also glossed over in the final report.

So, the WC would have us believe that Oswald carried his disassembled rifle in the paper bag over to the southeast corner and assembled his rifle just a few yards away from Bonnie Ray without being detected!
I'm not really sure how that is possible.

Groden would have seen the original Wiegman in the 1990s before the Prayerman theory was developed as far as I understand it. So Groden possibly never even looked for the Prayerman figure when he had the opportunity to do so.

Isn't Lovelady supposed to be walking down the elm street extension in the Wiegman/Darnell film? So no one is putting Lovelady at the doorway in the Wiegman film anyway.

This would mean that the only known living person to have viewed the original Wiegman film, Groden, quiet possibly never even looked at the figure in the doorway that later developed into the Prayerman theory.

Either that or he did look at the figure that would later become known as Prayerman and determined it was not Oswald and proceeded to mistake the figure as being Lovelady.

I doubt very much that anyone looking at the Dave Wiegman film in the 1990s would (or even could) have determined that there was even a human being standing in the "Prayer Man" position on the top TSBD step. And that's because the Wiegman copy presented by Mr. Groden on his 1995 DVD (which I just watched again this evening) is just too dark and shadowy in the area of the Prayer Man figure for any definitive conclusions to be made. It's much worse than Jimmy Darnell's film, that's for sure.

The Wiegman print presented on Groden's '95 DVD just barely allows us to tell that a person is even there in the shadowy doorway, let alone permitting any kind of positive identification. It's impossible to even identify the gender of the person. The same can be said, of course, for the Darnell Film as well. The gender of the Prayer Man figure in the Darnell copies we've got now cannot be definitely established either.

And even going on the assumption that the "camera original" of Wiegman's film (which Groden says he has stored in Long Island) is of better quality and can be enhanced and tweaked to some extent, I doubt very much that enough detail and clarity can be extracted from the shadowy indistinctness that exists in the doorway.

BTW, the copy of the Wiegman Film that I saved to my computer several years ago (linked below) is derived from Robert Groden's 1995 DVD, but this copy isn't as good as the version I watched on my DVD copy tonight. This copy below doesn't even permit us to see any kind of human figure in the Prayer Man spot at all. That area of the doorway contains nothing but pitch-blackness....