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31
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Dr. E. Forrest Chapman
« Last post by Charles Collins on Yesterday at 07:51:01 PM »
Quote from: Jack Nessan on Yesterday at 06:24:27 PM
CE 543 was not fired in the rifle. 

Just look at the dent in CE 543 and compare it to the dents people are claiming are the same. They are not even remotely the same. The dent in CE 543 has a dimple in the center of the dent and below the rim. The dent Lutz was claiming has a rounded downward bent over dent on the rim. That is not the same dent. The interesting thing about Lutz is he stated the shell hit the floor but he doesn’t seem to clue in on how that could have put the rounded dent on the lip of the shell. No one has ever replicated the dent in CE 543. No one is sure how it was done.

Mr. Lutz....  “kicking the cartridge back
and ejecting the cartridge and causing it fall to the floor.”
--------------------

 Just personally messing around with the carcanos’, I do not see how the ejection process can cause a dent no matter how stupid a person gets pulling the bolt back. The shell is not released from the bolt until it bottoms out on the back ejector.

In Lutz’s testimony he gives the most likely cause for the dent in his statement that the shell hit the floor.

I don’t think that there is any mystery to it Jack. Here’s another AI response:

The Ejection Impact PointsWhen you cycle the action too fast, the physics of the Carcano system cause distinct contact points:The Locking Abutment / Inside Wall: As the case mouth clears the chamber, the fixed ejector violently kicks the base of the brass to the right. If the bolt velocity is high, the pivoting case mouth swings outward so fast that it slaps the inside right wall of the receiver before it can fully clear the action.The Rear Receiver Bridge: Because the cartridge is simultaneously moving backward with the bolt, a rapid cycle can fling the spinning case neck directly into the forward edge of the rear receiver split/bridge (the solid metal loop housing the bolt handle when locked).Optics Mounts: If your Carcano is a modified or scoped sporter model, a fast ejection will frequently slam the case neck into the underside of the scope base or the windage turret.


The two cartridges in question look very similar to me based on the photos I have seen. But if you are right and the dents are drastically different, then the two different potential impact points might explain the differences. In the image below I have drawn an arrow to the rear receiver bridge area. There is an empty cartridge shown flying above the action after turning end for end about 90-degrees. In the case where the bolt is pulled back extremely fast, the cartridge would spin end for end much faster and such that the neck impacts the rear receiver bridge area before it clears the receiver area. For me, that might explain the dent in CE 543.




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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Dr. E. Forrest Chapman
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 07:28:43 PM »
Quote from: Jack Nessan on Yesterday at 06:50:58 PM
No. JBC did not react until JFK has been hit and only heard two shots. Bennett is a two shot witness.

You lie. Bennett clearly states he was looking at the crowd to the right of the limo when he HEARD the first shot. He then turned toward JFK in time to see the SECOND shot hit JFK. He then saw the third shot hit JFK in the head. That makes three shots.
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Brehm is a two shot witness.


Brehm can still be seen clapping after JFK had been hit by the SECOND shot. That's some witness.
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Williams is a two shot witness, Jarman is a second shot was the headshot witness. Norman does not make a statement for four days. Eventually he even states he was only aware of two shots.   .

You're making excuses to dismiss all of these three witnesses who were closer to the gunman than anyone in Dealey Plaza and all of whom testified they heard three shots.
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Seriously, does it not bother you that no one in Dealey Plaza heard this supposed early shot? Your only witness is a young girl on the sidewalk. Weren't there pigeons?

Your lies don't bother me at all.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Dr. E. Forrest Chapman
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 07:20:06 PM »
Quote from: Charles Collins on Yesterday at 02:13:04 PM

FWIW:

Another snip from “Phantom Shot” by Mike Majerus and Jack Nessan:

It is very possible that the dent in CE 543 occurred as a result of Oswald using the shell casing multiple times for dry firing. During one of those times, it could have snagged while being rechambered or ejected. When the FBI examined CE 543, it found marks that indicated it had been loaded into and extracted from a weapon at least three times. (26WH:449; CE 2968). Warren Commission firearms expert Joseph Nicol did tests on CE 543 confirming this. He said the marks could definitely have been made by dry firing the shell casing. (3WH:509-510).

That is a theoretical possibility which the WC recognized without endorsing. If CE543 was used for dry firing by Oswald, that would mean only two shots were fired unless CE543 was a reload which seems far fetched to me.

I have read some theorize that somebody in the DPD might have inserted the empty shell into the Carcano to see if it fit the rifle and then dry fired it. That falls into the realm of theoretical possibility although I've never seen any evidence to support that.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. And International Politics
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 07:12:57 PM »
Quote from: Richard Smith on Yesterday at 02:44:40 PM
Hopefully a deal is cut, gas prices and inflation go down, but I think the Repubs are doomed in the midterms.  Very difficult to change momentum in the short term.  They will almost certainly lose the House.  Even in normal circumstances it's difficult for the party in power to not be blamed for everything that goes wrong.  Our media is a force multiplier with the relentless anti-Trump propaganda campaign.  The Wash Post just falsely reported that there had been no improvement to the reflecting pool which previously had been a disgusting green mess and leaking water.  They can't bring themselves to do anything except oppose Trump.  Facts and common sense don't matter.  Many people have been influenced by that decades long campaign such that they are obsessed with hatred toward Trump.  Even when opposition is contrary to their own interests.  Joseph Goebbles would be proud of the propaganda influences of our media.  All the more effective because it is not the product of outside coercion.  They are true believers.

The best thing the Republicans have going for them is that they are not Democrats. The electorate is pissed at the GOP largely due to the recent spike in inflation, mainly driven by high gas prices. That doesn't mean they have fallen in love with the  Democrats. They haven't forgotten how bad things were under Biden and the Democrat Congress. The approval rating for the Democrat Party is still significantly lower than Trump's. I think a lot of voters are going to sit this one out or vote third party. The one thing the Democrats probably have going for them is a more energized base. IOW, their voters are more pissed off than the GOP base. The PO factor drives turnout. I'm old enough to remember the 2022 midterms which were supposed to be a red wave and turned out to be a red trickle. I think the same thing could happen to the Democrats this time around. Only time will tell.
35
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The best evidence Ferrie and Clay Shaw were close acquaintences
« Last post by Lance Payette on Yesterday at 07:11:08 PM »
Orest Pena, J. Kenneth McDonald, Clay Shaw, Polly wants a cracker, squawk squawk squawk.

The problem I have with all these types of discussions is that it's just regurgitating the same stuff over and over and over, ad nauseam. Virtually everything MTG posts is right out of one of his previous writings, to which he endlessly refers us. Unless it's just self-promotion, which I suspect it mostly is in the case of MTG and Jimbo and many others, what's the point? I assume that 99% of people who gravitate to a site such as this have a pretty fair base of knowledge about the JFKA, so what is the point of regurgitating "What about this?" and "What about that?" over and over and over as though the audience were junior high schoolers? And then those regurgitated points generate the same countervailing points that have likewise been regurgitated over and over and over. Is there some purpose in all this, or is it just self-promotion and mental masturbation? Every time I participate for any length of time, I start asking myself these questions and coming up with no better answer than mental masturbation (but at least I'm having fun with it!).

This was why I was excited to read Phantom Shot. It was something NEW! I hadn't heard it 974 times before. It was pretty persuasive and made me think. Ditto with John Orr's work. It's not just regurgitating the same tired talking points, and the same tired responses, for the 974th time.

Orest Pena, J. Kenneth McDonald, Clay Shaw, Polly wants a cracker, squawk squawk squawk.

Now, come on people: MTG's tedious posts or THIS? No contest.




36
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Reasonable Doubts?
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 07:03:23 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on Yesterday at 05:57:37 PM
The Secret Service and the Connallys said the SBT was wrong but the WC conclusion was right. That’s all I “figured out”.  I am just showing where that places the shots according to all the evidence.

And you screwed that part up. BADLY!
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Applying Logic and Critical Thinking to the JFK Assassination
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 07:01:33 PM »
Quote from: Royell Storing on Yesterday at 05:33:26 PM

   When they jimmy the elapsed firing time from 6+ Seconds to 10+ Seconds, you KNOW there is a problem with the 1 shooter scenario. The trailing team always wants to change the rules.

The people who you say jimmied the elapsed time to 10+ seconds did no such thing. 10+ seconds was allowed for in the WC's conclusion on the subject of the timing. From the last sentence in Chapter 3 on page 117 of the WCR, I quote:

"Since the preponderance of the evidence indicated that three shots were fired, the Commission concluded that one shot probably missed the Presidential limousine and its occupants, and that the three shots were fired in a time period ranging from approximately 4.8 to IN EXCESS OF (emphasis mine) 7 seconds."

While I do not subscribe to the 10+ second timeframe for the three shots, it is compatible with the WCR's conclusion. They could not put a limit on the timeframe for all three shots because the could not determine with ccertainty when the first (or last) shot was fired. To this day, we have no definitive proof. My own belief, which I acknowledge is not a proven fact, is that the first shot was fired at or about Z147. With the third shot fired at or about Z310, that leads to a total time of 8.9 seconds for all three shots (163 / 18.3).
38
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Dr. E. Forrest Chapman
« Last post by Jack Nessan on Yesterday at 06:50:58 PM »
Quote from: John Corbett on Yesterday at 11:39:59 AM
JBC reacted. Glen Bennett reacted. Most people reported hearing 3 shots. Because that shot didn't hit anybody (except maybe Tague), many people did not realize it was a gunshot. At first some said they thought it was a firecracker or a motorcycle backfire. Charles Brehm can be seen in the Z-film clapping his hands even after JFK had been hit by the second shot, apparently oblivious to the fact JFK had just been shot. There is a wide disparity how people perceived that first shot. Some didn't even remember hearing the first shot and only remember hearing two, but the consensus of witnesses is that there were three which matches the number of spent shells found in the sniper's nest. Jarman, Norman, and Williams who were directly below Oswald when the shots were fired all testified to hearing three shots. Jarman and Williams both said they thought the first shot was a motorcycle backfire or a cop saluting the President.

No. JBC did not react until JFK has been hit and only heard two shots. Bennett is a two shot witness. Brehm is a two shot witness. Williams is a two shot witness, Jarman is a second shot was the headshot witness. Norman does not make a statement for four days. Eventually he even states he was only aware of two shots.
 
Seriously, does it not bother you that no one in Dealey Plaza heard this supposed early shot? Your only witness is a young girl on the sidewalk. Weren't there pigeons?
39
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Did LHO fire a shot that missed everything? If so, when did he fire it?
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 06:44:50 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on Yesterday at 05:20:28 PM
You are ignoring the angle.  If he just missed JFK he would have hit the side of the car.  Here is what it looked like in the Secret Service reenactment as the car passed under the traffic light from the perspective of the SN:


So a miss of the car is actually a significant miss of about half a car width.

The reenactment film made the same mistake you did with your sketch. It has JFK too far to the left. JFK had his elbow resting on he side of the car. The reenactor has his arm entirely inside the car. There is no question Oswald missed JFK by a significant amount but given he inherent difficulty of he shot, it certainly is not an unreasonable miss.
40
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Dr. E. Forrest Chapman
« Last post by Jack Nessan on Yesterday at 06:38:14 PM »
Quote from: Charles Collins on Yesterday at 11:07:09 AM

That’s interesting Jack, thanks.

What seems preposterous to me about the dry-firing theory is that: if an empty cartridge were to be used for dry fire and the firing pin struck the primer for a second time, I believe that the initial impressions stamped into the primer by the firing pin when the live bullet was fired would be obliterated such that an identification would not be feasible.

Have you taken any of the test cartridges that you dry-fired to a firearms expert and asked if they could be identified as being fired from the rifle you used?

No. I have not and won't. I don't question whether Frazier or Dr. Chapman are being dishonest. How many times it could be erased and replaced would be totally hypothetical if it even can be. Obviously from what I have seen, how hard the firing pin strikes the primer varies dramatically from rifle to rifle.

The firing pin impression is the best way they used to place the shell in Oswald’s carcano. It is like a fingerprint.

Oswald did not have to actually fire CE 543 to have a snap cap. Just pull the bullet out and pour the powder out and touch off the primer in the gun with the firing pin. The remaining powder residue flares out of the rifle barrel when the primer is ignited.

Important to remember is CE 543 does not have the chamber mark on the side of the shell casing that all the other shells associated with the rifle, as noted by the FBI in their analysis of the assassination shells and also noted by Josiah Thompson in his book, have exhibited on the side of the shell casing. 
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