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31
The autopsy pathologists observed a bullet entrance wound on the back of the neck. They noted a contusion on the apex of the right lung, indicating to them that the bullet had passed over the top of that lung. They learned that there was a bullet wound in the throat that had been obliterated by the tracheotomy. X-Rays of the body revealed that no bullets remained inside it.

If the bullet that entered the back of the neck did not exit the throat, what happened to it? If the throat wound was a bullet entrance wound, what happened to that bullet?

As I noted earlier, I could never convince you that the Single Bullet theory should be known as the Single Bullet Fact. If you are unwillingly to address the two questions above, why should I even bother discussing this with you?

How would an explanation, no matter how speculative, of where a bullet went or could have gone prove the SBT?

The autopsy pathologists observed a bullet entrance wound on the back of the neck. They noted a contusion on the apex of the right lung, indicating to them that the bullet had passed over the top of that lung. They learned that there was a bullet wound in the throat that had been obliterated by the tracheotomy. X-Rays of the body revealed that no bullets remained inside it.

Which led them to the assumption that the bullet that entered in the back must have exited through the throat. They never verified the assumption.

As I noted earlier, I could never convince you that the Single Bullet theory should be known as the Single Bullet Fact.

The problem is that something you believe is not automatically a fact.

A fact can be proven. I have never seen conclusive proof for the SBT.

If you are unwillingly to address the two questions above, why should I even bother discussing this with you?

You are not discussing it with me. You are asking questions. If you only wish to "discuss" this topic with people who either agree with you or are willing to accept your opinions at face value, then you perhaps shouldn't bother.
32
I think more specifically Frazier testified he could not determine directionality and metal content because the clothes had been compromised by the dry cleaning.   However he acknowledged that some type of missile caused the damage.  Thus it’s possible to recreate the holes in surrogate clothes based on the documented measurements/locations of the bullet holes and run string through the holes to get some idea of the path.  I did it with a mannequin arm with holes in it corresponding to JBC’s wounds and with a stand in with string taped to the corresponding locations of the wounds.  It revealed the French cuff had to be entirely out of the suit sleeve and the forearm pronated to an extreme degree of its range.  It’s entirely possible that’s how JBC was sitting but it’s an awkward position.

I don't think it would be possible to recreate the holes in surrogate clothes to any good degree of accuracy, even if Connally's clothes hadn't been washed. Fabric stretches, and not all fabric stretches the same.
33
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Education Forum Goes Off the Rails
« Last post by Brian Doyle on Yesterday at 04:22:02 PM »
The No Posting For Proxies rule that Andrew Iler is enforcing was made specifically to prevent my correct Prayer Man evidence from being posted on The Education Forum...When Gordon banned me I went to Jim Hargrove and asked him to post some of my evidence that proved Prayer Man was Sarah Stanton...Hargrove obliged and Gordon once again employed his rottenly dishonest type of moderation and made up that no posting for proxies rule specifically to prevent my correct evidence from being posted...Gordon was moderating backwards, in other words, and encouraging false, disproven evidence over correct evidence...The exact opposite of what his job description as moderator was...Gordon knew he was doing this so he went on The Education Forum and posted that his job description was whatever he decided it would be and if any member didn't like it they could leave...The member sycophants later praised Gordon after he nearly destroyed the site after his unchecked arrogance played-out to the near destruction of the forum - all due to their lack of challenging Gordon and his arrogance...Dishonest moderators like Gordon take advantage of censorship and disappear the true context that the problem is THEM and their dishonesty...Therefore the fact that the source of the proxy posting was a need to use a proxy to get around Gordon's filtering of correct evidence was successfully hidden and an innocent member was falsely made to look like a ill-intended rule breaker...No honest discussion is ever had on the true source of the problem...Nor is the correct evidence ever sought...Kathy Beckett knew all this and decided to falsely report me to The Education Forum as attacking her on the McAdams site...I had asked Kathy on that fair playing field how she justified with-holding the correct Prayer Man evidence from her members as moderator...Instead of honestly answering Beckett went back to The Education Forum and falsely reported that I was attacking her - knowing the whole time the predictable result it would get...Especially from Gordon who was looking for justification for his wrongful banning of myself...In my application for re-admission to the forum 3 years ago clique crony Mark Knight cited that false claim as the reason for my denial for re-admission...All decided, of course, without any ability for me to fairly defend myself...The motive here was not enforcement of rules against a violator...The motive was dishonest abuse of moderator authority to keep a ridiculed researcher from handing the people who mocked him their butts with the best arguments of evidence on the subject...The Invision website rules give the site "Owner" Andrew Iler the power to serve as the clique's servant boy pretending to be motivated by the best interests of reform...

To add insult to injury Hargrove turned on me and threw me under the bus telling me in an e-mail that he too would ban me seeing what I post...Once again giving credibility to the dishonest disappearing of context regarding Gordon and his abuse of moderation in order to keep the site's pet Prayer Man theory un-refuted...
34
I think more specifically Frazier testified he could not determine directionality and metal content because the clothes had been compromised by the dry cleaning.   However he acknowledged that some type of missile caused the damage.  Thus it’s possible to recreate the holes in surrogate clothes based on the documented measurements/locations of the bullet holes and run string through the holes to get some idea of the path.  I did it with a mannequin arm with holes in it corresponding to JBC’s wounds and with a stand in with string taped to the corresponding locations of the wounds.  It revealed the French cuff had to be entirely out of the suit sleeve and the forearm pronated to an extreme degree of its range.  It’s entirely possible that’s how JBC was sitting but it’s an awkward position.

Frazier said that he couldn't even say that the holes in the clothes were actually bullet holes.
35

I have read the testimony.  What I wanted to test was how two large fragments (567 and 569) deflected upwards off a an approximate 15 degree downward vertical angle to hit the windshield and the windshield frame.  They didn’t document fragment trajectory.  Generally speaking (and bullets do crazy things) when the jacket shears off an FMJ the core will continue on the same vector.  Their test skulls were filled with ballistic gel to simulate brain tissue and covered with an additional layer of gel and goat skin. I don’t know how they attached the skin to the gel but it’s a reasonable set up.  The one skull they published however had significant damage to the face and more apparent overall bone loss (possibly due to there being more brittleness to the dried skulls).  Regardless the face damage on the test skull would indicate the bullet (or at least the core didn’t deviate significantly off path).  So I wanted to see if a fragmenting Carcano would deflect upwards through actual skull and brain tissue.  I only shot three pig’s heads but there was no deviation of trajectory and the jacket’s didn’t separate.  I was actually expecting the (and hoping) the jacket would separate because the purpose was to see how much the core would come apart.  We did fire one of the Carcano’s straight into the ground because we were having trouble recovering the test bullets from the berm we were shooting into.  The bullet went 23 inches into the round. The jacket and core separated but the core stayed intact (it was deformed but no fragments broke off from it. Im not surprised the Edgewood testing shattered the skulls.  But actual scalp is way tougher than a layer of ballistic gel. Thats why I used the pig’s heads.  But I couldn’t get the jackets to separate.

The fragments didn't deflect upwards. The deformed bullet curved upward as it passed through the head, fragmenting as it went. The curvature of the path was considerable, considering that the bullet entered just above the EOP at a downward angle of 12 degrees. 
36
FBI firearms examiner Robert Frazier said that he could make no determinations from the holes in the shirt and jacket due to the fact that they had been laundered. I assume that the pants had been cleaned as well.

I think more specifically Frazier testified he could not determine directionality and metal content because the clothes had been compromised by the dry cleaning.   However he acknowledged that some type of missile caused the damage.  Thus it’s possible to recreate the holes in surrogate clothes based on the documented measurements/locations of the bullet holes and run string through the holes to get some idea of the path.  I did it with a mannequin arm with holes in it corresponding to JBC’s wounds and with a stand in with string taped to the corresponding locations of the wounds.  It revealed the French cuff had to be entirely out of the suit sleeve and the forearm pronated to an extreme degree of its range.  It’s entirely possible that’s how JBC was sitting but it’s an awkward position. 



37
MTG--

Thanks for posting this.

Verily, the best suspects in the JFKA (IMHO) are LHO and Cubans---but were the Cubans Alpha 66'ers, or G-2, DGI, or double agents?

And was the KGB involved (this is a reasonable question, if one accepts the narrative that CIA'er Bruce Solie was running LHO)?

If LHO was a true Marxist, and wanted passage to Cuba, it makes more sense that he got into bed with G-2, DGI.

I lean to the JFKA as an informal, nearly impromptu plot, involving perhaps three people.

We know that LBJ ordered the WC to put the kibosh on any leads running back to Havana or Moscow (LBJ did not want to nuke it out with Moscow), which resulted in the WC-SBT-LNT.

The second official investigation into the JFKA, the HSCA-1979, is somewhat in line with the Baer study. A JFKAC, but still a whodunnit.

I think the HSCA got closer to the truth than the blindered, straitjacketed WC. Baer too.

Unfortunately, by 1979 some leads had grown cold, some people died, and likely some documents destroyed.



38
You're welcome. The wannabe Oswald legal defense team will object to those two fragments from being admitted into court as evidence.

That is one of the reasons I found it strange that the Secret Service agents would allow a Navy NCO to assist in recovering evidence. If the fragment was found by someone other than a law enforcement officer, that could have tainted the discovery since they didn't have complete control of the limo during the search. Those are the kind of technicalities that arouse out of rulings by the Warren Court later in the decade so it's understandable why the Secret Service would not have been too uptight about having a Navy man assist in the search at the time.

I can picture Mills and Martinell showing up to collect the bone fragments that had already been found and the Secret Service was still going over the limo with a fine tooth comb. Maybe they just said, "Do you guys need any help looking for stuff" and the Secret Service saying, "Sure, why not".
39
Have you read the WC Testimonies of Alfred Olivier and Arthur Dziemian and their "Wound Ballistics of 6.5 mm Mannlicher Carcano Ammunition" report? Their firing of WCC 6.5 mm FMJ bullets into the skulls of human cadavers resulted in the bullets massively fragmenting and the heads exploding as well.

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/olivier.htm

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/dziemian.htm
 
https://www.maryferrell.org/xdoc/62296#relPageId=1&search=edgewood%20


I have read the testimony.  What I wanted to test was how two large fragments (567 and 569) deflected upwards off a an approximate 15 degree downward vertical angle to hit the windshield and the windshield frame.  They didn’t document fragment trajectory.  Generally speaking (and bullets do crazy things) when the jacket shears off an FMJ the core will continue on the same vector.  Their test skulls were filled with ballistic gel to simulate brain tissue and covered with an additional layer of gel and goat skin. I don’t know how they attached the skin to the gel but it’s a reasonable set up.  The one skull they published however had significant damage to the face and more apparent overall bone loss (possibly due to there being more brittleness to the dried skulls).  Regardless the face damage on the test skull would indicate the bullet (or at least the core didn’t deviate significantly off path).  So I wanted to see if a fragmenting Carcano would deflect upwards through actual skull and brain tissue.  I only shot three pig’s heads but there was no deviation of trajectory and the jacket’s didn’t separate.  I was actually expecting the (and hoping) the jacket would separate because the purpose was to see how much the core would come apart.  We did fire one of the Carcano’s straight into the ground because we were having trouble recovering the test bullets from the berm we were shooting into.  The bullet went 23 inches into the round. The jacket and core separated but the core stayed intact (it was deformed but no fragments broke off from it. Im not surprised the Edgewood testing shattered the skulls.  But actual scalp is way tougher than a layer of ballistic gel. Thats why I used the pig’s heads.  But I couldn’t get the jackets to separate.

 

40
I can understand Young confusing the Queen Mary with JFK's limo. There were times during JFK's presidency when the Queen Mary was used instead of the Lincoln that was his primary limo. His recollections about a bullet having been recovered from either limo aren't credible at all.

BTW, thank you for posting the document regarding Mills finding the bullet fragment in JFK's limo, even though it showed one of my beliefs was wrong. I'm always glad to learn something I had not known before.

You're welcome. The wannabe Oswald legal defense team will object to those two fragments from being admitted into court as evidence.
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