JFK Assassination Forum

Well, there is irony for ya: The guy who complains about the use of AI turns around and uses it to bolster his position. When are people going to understand: AI is fine if you want to know some specific fact like the boiling point of water (323° F., my AI tells me) or the date of the JFKA (November 11, 1982). It is not some "separate mind" that analyzes data and reaches a reasoned conclusion. It just scans the internet and regurgitates what seems to be the prevailing opinion. Besides, AI is an alien plot to transform humanity into a non-biological life form, or something like that.

I did not endorse or refute the AI answer to this question. I merely put it out there for discussion. The important question here is whether the sources AI turned to correctly documented the findings of the HSCA firearms panel on this subject. The source it used for that answer came from this forum so based on that information, the source might or might not have correctly stated the finding. Now if you want to explore this question further, I could delve deeper and find or more credible source but my belief is if the person who posted that had incorrectly stated the findings of the HSCA firearms panel, somebody would have refuted that and AI would have found the refutation as well and made note of that in its answer.

OK.  Give us the witnesses who said the first shot missed and the witnesses who said the first shot occurred at a time before z180 e.g.:  when the VP car was still in the process of turning the corner; just as the VP security car was entering the intersection; before JFK turned to his right and waved.

Reactions themselves don’t necessarily tell you what they are reacting to.  You need to consider all the evidence.

No witness can tell us at what frame of the Z-film they saw or heard something. Your request is silly. They can tell us what they saw and we have to first either corroborate or refute what they have told us and then logically figure out when they heard or saw what they have related. JBC said he turned to his right upon hearing the first shot but could not see JFK when he turned. We see him making such a turn beginning at Z164. That is powerful evidence the first shot was fired prior to Z164.

SS Agent Glen Bennett who heard the first shot, then turned to look at JFK and SAW the second shot strike him high on his back. To believe that the first shot was not a miss by Bennett's account, one would have to believe only JBC was hit by the first shot, something JBC adamantly refuted.

JBC himself said he was hit by the second shot and since he and JFK reacted to being hit at exactly the same instant in the same manner, by suddenly raising their arms, it follows that the first shot was a miss. You can ignore the visual evidence in the Z-film that tells us that unmistakenly, but when you do that, you kill any chance you have at reaching the one and only correct conclusion.

On top of all the other flaws and problems with Gordon Arnold's "recollections" is the location he decided to "film" from, a location from which part of the road was obscured by a wall and a tree. Arnold said that he did some panning tests(of this once in a lifetime opportunity), but he never figured out that there were much better filming positions that were not that far away? Doh!
It's no wonder after realizing his amateurish blunder, Arnold invented piles of dirt which would have to be very high to see over the wall but the higher he goes, the more the tree would hinder his view.
Of course the obvious solution would be to film closer to the full view of the road but then he loses his cover story of being hidden, deep in the shadows.
BTW the tree as seen in Duncan's post was there in 1963 and if anything the main bulk of leaves was lower and more dense.



JohnM

   JOHN - In Arnold's Q/A by the Sixth Floor, he mentions doing some kinda practice panning and having issues with "signage". (paraphrasing). I took this to be the Stemmons Sign and it blocking his view of Elm St just as it did Zapruder. This led to the higher ground/mound position that Arnold claimed to have taken. His "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" piece was done in 1988, 25 yrs after the assassination. Just my opinion, but 25 yrs later, I believe Gordon Arnold had his physical position off a bit. I believe he was closer to the large tree between the N-S Picket Fence and the walkway. And again, Sen Yarborough did verify seeing someone bouncing/diving around back there.
   Also, that picket fence had been repaired/rebuilt several times by the time Arnold did his TMWKK piece. There's no guarantee the fence was reconstructed in exactly the same position on the knoll that it was in on 11/22/63. Military individuals use landmarks to fix their position. If that picket fence was Not in the exact same position on the knoll when Arnold did his TMWKK piece, this may have thrown Arnold off with respect to exactly where he was standing and filming.   

I think many years ago I was denied membership into a discussion group for the reason that they were not accepting new members at the time. To the best of my memory, that was the Ed Forum. If I am correct about that, it sounds like they did me a favor.

Google groups has been shut down killing discussions on both alt.assassination.jfk and alt.conspiracy.jfk although last I checked you could still read from their archives. I wonder how many JFKA online forums that are still around. I have an X account although I think I could count on the fingers of one hand how many posts I have made on that platform. I am not even sure how that platform works. Do you have to enter a hashtag to get to the JFKA discussion?
I don't even have an Instagram or TikTok account. I reside in the social media stone age. When I see people who have their noses buried in their smart phones completely oblivious to the world around them, I have concluded that is a good thing. I waste enough of my dwindling amount of time on this one.

For every witness you named, I can name a witness who gave a different version. You continue to rely on witnesses accurately remembering the event instead of believing what can be seen in the Z-film with your own two eyes. The fact that you continue to insist JBC wasn't hit until Z270 is a joke. He reacts at exactly the same instant that JFK did.

OK.  Give us the witnesses who said the first shot missed and the witnesses who said the first shot occurred at a time before z180 e.g.:  when the VP car was still in the process of turning the corner; just as the VP security car was entering the intersection; before JFK turned to his right and waved.

Reactions themselves don’t necessarily tell you what they are reacting to.  You need to consider all the evidence.