JFK Assassination Forum

He surely did, with help from 60-plus years of KGB* disinformation, "active measures" (can you say, e.g., "AIDS was created by the CIA!!!" and Oliver Stone's "JFK"?), and strategic deception counterintelligence operations, his GRU hackers, his professional St. Petersburg trolls, oodles and gobs of zombified "useful idiots" (or worse; can you say Julian Assange?), and corrupt S.O.B.s like Paul Manafort (in conjunction with GRU officer Konstantin Kiliminik and Putin's buddy, Oleg Deripaska), et al., ad nauseum.

*Today's SVR and FSB

Keep believing that. It gives this forum some much needed comic relief.

Well I’m kind of stuck in this middle ground area kind of like Neo was in the subway.

I can’t ignore 3/4th witness hearing the 3 shots rapidly fired and in the 1….2..3 pattern.

I can. A substantial number of witnesses told us erroneously that the shots came from the direction of the GK. If earwitnesses could be wrong about that they can certainly be wrong about the spacing of the shots.

But I cannot ignore that Z film z223-Z230 sequence of JFK and JC moving in sync.

I don’t buy that JCs jacket bulge coincident with this in sync movement was caused by just a random gust of wind.

I don’t buy that the expression on JCs face is fear rather than pain. JC may have thought he felt no pain at the time but his body is reflexively responding to the force of the bullet causing his body to rotate and move forward. And the sudden jerk of his right hand upward holding the hat, is another indication of an involuntary nervous system reaction.

So the Z224 shot I think is more probable than the Z270 shot, especially given the computer modeling that Myers has done for Z224 which lines up the chest wound with the wrist wound and thigh wound.

However, I’m stuck with Harold Norman’s 3 shots  in  about 4 secs by his boom click click demonstrations and his recollection that JFK slumped after the 1st shot and that only AFTER that slump did Norman hear the next 2 shots in only about 2-3 secs.

When I weigh all of the evidence you listed above against Norman's recollection that JFK was hit by the first shot, it's an easy call as to which is more probative. I'll never understand why people put so much faith in what witnesses recall when it conflicts with what they can see for themselves in the Z-film. Zapruder's camera is hands down the best witness to the JFKA we have and any part of a human witness account that conflicts with the Z-film should be 86ed.

The simple resolution would be that the TSBD shooter used a semi auto rifle, and that Norman heard just the shells being “ejected” and hitting the floor. However, Norman in his WC testimony after pointed out his original  “ejected” statement goes on to agree with the leading questions if he meant he was describing the operation of the bolt.

The shells found on the floor and the recovered bullets were all fired by Oswald's Carano which eliminates the possibility of a semi-auto firing the shots. Again, trust the hard evidence, not witness impressions.

Will Fritz picked up the shells at the SN that Luke Mooney had seen on the floor , but unfortunately BEFORE they were photographed  laying on the floor. So that introduces some doubt if those really were MC shells.

Whether true or not, it doesn't change the fact the recovered shells came from Oswald's rifle. The dispersion pattern of the shells as photographed dovetails with Oswald firing an early first shot at an almost vertical angle and follow up shots down Elm St. The bolt ejects shells to the right which would send the first shell to the right toward the open end of the sniper's nest. The next two shots would eject toward the wall of boxes.

However, this leads off into the rabbit hole of conspiracy and suspicions of Fritz and many others willing to participate in a post event cover up, and how or why was the MC rifle placed on the 6th floor if the shooter was using a semi auto.

You're overthinking this. Did Fritz plant the shattered bullet in the limo and plant CE399 at Parkland. Those were fired by Oswald's rifle which means so were the shells found in the sniper's nest. Use your common sense. It's not that hard.

So I am leaning that the TSBD shooter was using the MC rifle and he fired Z224 as the first shot, took his time 4.8 secs later and shot the 2nd shot at Z313. Then he must have seen he had scored a hit at Z313 and he just rapidly fired the 3rd shot in 2 secs that went and struck the curb near Tague (and then into the sewer?) This at least fits the 1….2..3 pattern and all 3 shots in about 6.8 secs which might be “close enough?

If Oswald saw what his Z313 shot had done, there would be no reason to fire another shot. Oswald chambered the fourth and final bullet from his magazine in preparation for a fourth shot but once he reacquired the target in his scope and saw what he had done and JFK falling over to the left, he would have known a fourth shot was unnecessary. He knew he had scored a kill shot.

You keep relying on witnesses to give you accurate information. I will never understand that. Some of the things witnesses tell us are right and some are wrong. The way you figure out which is which is to figure out what fits with the hard evidence and what doesn't. There is no harder evidence than the Z-film. Anyone who relies primarily on eye and ear witness testimony without corroboration will never figure out a very simple murder case.

Your suggestion that a third shot was the one that struck Tague makes no sense. Tague was nowhere near the line of fire after Z313 and when a shooter rushes a shot, the tendency for a right handed shooter is to pull the shot low and to the right. That could have caused that shot to miss to the right of the limo but it's not going anywhere near Tague.

Sure, Kamala is a flat-out dingbat. In a country of 330 million people, it's astounding the non-quality of the candidates we keep coming up with for high offices. Kamala? AOC? And the fact that tens of millions of people think these are viable candidates is frightening.

Of course, this is true at all levels. I have served in federal, state, county and municipal government, and the elected officials were consistently "not exactly" the cream of the crop.

It appears the natives are getting restless: Now that Armed Services Committee Chairman Wicker has criticized Trump for waffling around on Iran, the comments on FOX, which are usually nothing short of worshipful toward Trump, are almost entirely in the vein of "I'm sick of this! Finish the damn job!"

I'm getting impatient too but if Trump wants to give peace a chance with one more round of diplomacy, I can't fault him for that. I think he knows there is just so much we can do without putting boots on the ground and he is understandably reluctant to do that. But this is war and to accomplish our objectives, we may have to put our  own troops in harm's way. I think they would be the first ones to tell you that. That's what they signed up for. During the lull, we have rearmed to a far greater degree than Iran has been able to do because we destroyed most of their war making machine. I would bet we have a better intelligence on where the hardliners live and work and where to send the smart bombs through their bedroom windows. We should try to kill as many of them as possible with the first wave and take out what few missile launchers they have left. I don't pretend to be a military analyst but I have a hard time figuring out why we can't take out the sites that threaten the Strait of Hormuz. If they still won't submit, by which I mean grease up and bend over submit, then we take the gloves off and start taking away key parts of their country. How hard would it be to takeover Kharg Island....PERMANENTLY as the spoils of war. Then takeover the region where their nuclear dust is buried and draw their ground troops out in the open so we can annihilate them. I would bet their ground troops would be no braver than the Iraq troops that started surrendering in mass during the first Iraq war. I'd also like to see Iran Balkanized and broken up into ethnic regions so that they are never a power again in the Middle East.

At least now you're starting to think rationally. However, as I pointed out to Royell on the other thread, "shape-shifting reptilian alien" is the direction in which you want to be looking. Time-traveling had not been perfected in 1963; that did not occur until 1985 (Present Earth Time), when it was perfected by a Bolivian scientist in 2178 (Future Earth Time). The possibility that Royell is a time-traveler, sent here just to mess with our minds, has occurred to me.

LOL 😆

Since Royell had criticized my CIA Spook suggestion as thinking too narrowly, I have decided to think as open minded as possible, short of buying  that bridge that JohnC offers to sell me.

So my new hypothesis is that the Unknown Lone Ranger is a time travelor and that black object is the device that transported him 😬

At least now you're starting to think rationally. However, as I pointed out to Royell on the other thread, "shape-shifting reptilian alien" is the direction in which you want to be looking. Time-traveling had not been perfected in 1963; that did not occur until 1985 (Present Earth Time), when it was perfected by a Bolivian scientist in 2178 (Future Earth Time). The possibility that Royell is a time-traveler, sent here just to mess with our minds, has occurred to me.