JFK Assassination Forum

Ear and eyewitnesses will lead you astray because they are wrong as often as they are right. When I read a witnesses statement for the first time, my initial reaction is, that might be right. It might also be wrong. The only way to determine that is how it fits with the body of evidence as a whole. There is one reliable witness and that is Zapruder's camera. Every other witness should be evaluated on how well or poorly their statement conforms with the Z-film. JBC is the key to determining when the first shot was fired. He said he turned to look over his right shoulder in reaction to the first shot. So is he right or wrong. We see him start to make that turn at Z164. So the question then becomes is he turning in reaction to the first shot which happened earlier or is he turning in anticipation of a shot that would come later. That question answers itself. The only question is how much before that turn did the first shot occur. Opinions vary but my belief is the shot would have been fired in the z147-148 window with the sound reaching JBC's ears at Z149-150. That puts his cognitive reaction about 3/4 of a second after hearing the gunshot. There are a number of witnesses who either did not hear or did not recognize the first sound as a gunshot. That would include Jack and Jackie as well as Clint Hill who only remembers hearing two shots. Agent Glen Bennett did hear the first shot while he was scanning the crowd to the right of the motorcade. He turned to look at JFK and saw the SECOND shot strike JFK in the back about five seconds before the headshot that killed him. Bennett's recollection should be given a good deal of weight because he wrote about this in his notes about AF1 on the flight back to Washington. Bennett would have had no other way of knowing JFK was shot in the back since he was on his back from the time he was wheeled into the ER until he was placed in the casket.

The usual Nutter double standard nonsense.
Like all Nutters, John is soooo convinced he is right he is unaware of the contradictory sh*t he spouts.
In the paragraph above he writes:

"Ear and eyewitnesses will lead you astray because they are wrong as often as they are right."

A few sentences later he writes:

"JBC is the key to determining when the first shot was fired"

He is blissfully unaware that, on one hand, he will right off any witness statement that disagrees with his own wrong-headedness by insisting ALL witness testimony is unreliable (even if more than 40 witnesses report the same thing) and, one the other, he puts all his eggs into the basket of a single witness...John Connally.
The idiocy of the Nutter knows no bounds.

John Connally was shot through the torso.
It was a life-threatening injury. He was massively traumatised and went into shock. The distorting effect a massively traumatic event can have on the memory is well documented - time dilation, remembering things in the wrong order, remembering things that didn't even happen etc.
The very worst witness to rely on in Dealey Plaza is Connally.

Have a read through Johns recent posts to get a taste of the arrogant ignorance Nutters enjoy.

with 'Maggie's Drawers' 3 out 10
and 3 years later he did worse.

3 out of 10 is about 1 out of 3. Oswald got Maggie's Drawers on one of his three shots in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/1963. It seems his shooting that day was in line with the proficiency he showed while in the USMC.

      You're the guy claiming that the DPD "impounded" the car. If the DPD "impounded" the car as YOU CLAIMED, I believe this would show that the DPD was interested in this car. How many times are you gonna flip-flop on YOUR "impounded" car issue?

I never claimed the DPD impounded the car. As I recall, I posed it to you as a question. If the DPD thought that car was involved in any way with the assassination, why wouldn't they have impounded it. You never offered any evidence that they did or even showed and interest in the car. Your reasoning for believing that was a getaway car is truly hairbrained.

The debate over Oswald's proficiency reminds me of a quote from the late Tim McCarver, former MLB catcher turned announcer. The other announcers were mercilessly ribbing him about how slow he was. He finally interrupted and said, "Lest folks get the wrong idea here, I was a very slow ... MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYER. In high school, I won a five-county track meet in Ohio." When I look at Oswald's Marine rifle score books, this was not Joe Average with his .22 plinker. His scores at 500 yards were astounding to me. I think the debate over whether he could have made the shots is a non-starter, especially if there were only two shots.

You're points are well taken. Oswald's scores in the USMC showed he was more than capable of making the shots that killed JFK. His score of 212 was just 2 points lower than that of Charles Whitman who two years later killed about a dozen people and wounded many more from the tower on the University of Texas campus. Whitman was much higher up than Oswald and shot people at much greater ranges than Oswald did when he killed JFK.

I missed the announcement of Tim McCarver's passing. Just this past February, I learned of the passing of Mickey Lolich who shared a moment of baseball history with McCarver. Lolich retired McCarver on a foul pop-up for the final out of the 1968 World Series. The photo of Lolich leaping into the arms of catcher Bill Freehan following the final out will live forever in the hearts and minds of long time Tiger fans such as myself.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/hPEAAOSw8dBnMXn3/s-l400.jpg

The pre-series hype had been all about the match-up of 31 game winner Denny McLain vs. the Cardinals Bob Gibson who had posted an ERA of 1.12, the lowest since the dead ball era. Gibson beat McLain in both of their matchups but it was Mickey Lolich who stole the thunder from both of them when he pitched his third complete game victory on just two days rest to beat Gibson in game 7.

...3 years later he lost it when he did worse

Question: Do you have a personal knowledge of Oswald's ability with a rifle?

Delgado: It has been said that he was a terrific marksman, but at the range he couldn't prove to me that he was a good shot....
Well, in Oswald's particular case it was quite funny to watch because he would get a couple of discs,
maybe out of the possible ten he would get two or three "Maggie's Drawers". This is a red flag on a long pole and
this is run from left to right on the target itself. You don't see this too often on the firing line, not the Marine firing line....

------------
Mr. DELGADO - "With respect to his rifle. He didn't spend as much time as the rest of us did in the armory cleaning it up.
He would, when he was told to. Otherwise, he wouldn't come out by himself to clean it."

Mr. DELGADO - "He just qualified, that's it. He wasn't as enthusiastic as the rest of us.
We all loved--liked, you know, going to the range."

Mr. DELGADO - "Right; I was in the same line. By that I mean we were on line together, the same time,
but not firing at the same position, but at the same time, and I remember seeing his. It was a pretty big joke,
because he got a lot of "Maggie's drawers," you know, a lot of misses, but he didn't give a darn."

Mr. LIEBELER - Missed the target completely?

Yawn.

Three years later, Oswald didn't intentionally get worse, it's as you quoted "he didn't give a darn" because the part of my post you purposely omitted and are obviously running away from, Oswald was court-martialled twice, spent time in the brig and at the time was just a few months away from defecting to the enemy.

Mr. DELGADO - He just qualified, that's it. He wasn't as enthusiastic as the rest of us. We all loved--liked, you know, going to the range.

BTW Capasse, it's clear that dealing with the evidence with intellectual honestly has never been a priority for you!

JohnM