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The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Steve M. Galbraith on Yesterday at 10:32:56 PM »
John Lattimer's "bulging jacket tests": https://dn710700.ca.archive.org/0/items/nsia-LattimerJohnKDr/nsia-LattimerJohnKDr/Lattimer%20John%20K%20Dr%20109.pdf



And equally important test #2. If the bullet going through Connally was NOT tumbling when it hit him it wouldn't create a jacket bulge. This is because the resulting wound would have been smaller; there would less fragmentation of the ribs that contributed to the bulging. The bulging was not caused solely by the bullet exiting the chest; it was the bullet and the rib fragments exiting Connally's chest that caused it.

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I see.  So that means we can say that the WC did not find the SBT was correct or necessary to their LN conclusion or that any shot missed:



I can agree with that!

One of the few things I disagree with the WCR about. They put that in due to the Commission members who refused to accept the TSBD, which is their fault. The SBT is what happened and the staff lawyers who did the bulk of the investigating knew it.
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I can agree with that.

Nellie and Gayle Newman both described JBC as being turned to the right when hit.

He was turned to his right when hit, dummy. At or about Z222. Immediately after that he turned even more dramatically to his right.
Quote
 

But what I did not realize until today in looking through some of the Commission Documents was that Connally's medical team also agreed that JBC was turned right when hit.  In fact, a report prepared by ASAIC Warren in January 1964 following interviews with the doctors (labelled as CD 326), states that they agreed that his "Torso turned to the right and nearly parallel with the flight of the projectile".   



That would put the shot striking JBC sometime after z250.

Connally's medical team would not have been aware of the fact that the bullet that struck JBC in the back had first passed through JFK and yawed upon exit. That produced an elongated entry wound that the medical team could have easily misinterpreted as a tangential strike which would produce such an elongated wound. The problem with that explanation is such a wound would have to have been fired from a near perpendicular angle to limo, which would mean a shot from the west end of the TSBD.

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The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 10:11:40 PM »
I think if JFK had been hit at Z190, that at least ONE of those SS agents should have seen JFK move at least a little bit and the SS agents would probably have reacted by Z207. So the Z190 1st shot theory is improbable. There would be some indication in the Z -film at Z190-Z207 that JFK is reacting to a bullet passing thru his back and his throat. The only possibility is a 1.5 sec delayed reaction. Unfortunately that idea seems to have been refuted by a source posted by Dan O. indicating the involuntary nervous system reaction of the human body to being struck by a bullet is less than 0.5 sec. IDK if this is a universal phenomenon that applies in all cases of humans who have been struck by a bullet. However, when added with shooting thru foliage and lack of reaction by SS agents , the Z190 1st shot theory seems improbable. Probably only  Hawaii 5-0 Steve McGarret 
could rescue this theory and it probably would involve finding out if that Chinese Commie Wo Fat used some kind of different bullet.  :D

The first indication of a bullet strike inside the limo is the bulging of JBC's jacket at Z224. JFK would have been hit by that frame but since he is still hidden except for the left side of his torso and his right arm which is being lowered after waving to the crowd on the right. The right arm is still moving down at Z225 although a blurry enlargement of that frame indicates a distressed expression on JFK's face and JBC's right shoulder dips noticeably. The next frame both JFK and JBC suddenly and rapidly flip their arms upward. JFK is raising both hands up in front of his throat while JBC's right arm with his Stetson in his right hand starts to rise. JBC's rapid up and down arm movement lasts 9 frames, a half second, after which he dips to his right and doubles over. JFK after bringing his hands up to his throat then lowers his elbows and leans over to his left. It all fits. I don't know how any objective person could look at that sequence and dispute that BOTH men had been struck immediately before that began,  about Z222.
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   If you read the "News About The Darnell Film" thread by Roger Odisio on the Education Forum you will see the information about the 6th Floor Museum copy of Darnell...In that thread Pat Speer maligns me and says I was a serial insulter whose posts were full of anger and vitriol...Pat is a dirty player who is intentionally sucking up to James Gordon with that slander for the purpose of not allowing my evidence and for keeping the clique intact...What Speer is really doing is dog whistling to make sure my evidence is never shown on the board that proved I was correct...Vinny Palamara was kind enough to post a request that I be allowed to defend my own work on the forum but that request was denied...The Education Forum prefers to duct tape someone's mouth shut and tie their hands behind their back and only allow one side to post - even if the person being censored was correct...People are best slandered and their evidence ignored when they are censored and can't defend themselves...Even though you could plainly see the female dress neckline in the clips posted by Ulrik the issue was decided by Sandy Larsen who had the last word and said the neckline was a CIA forgery...

"The Darnell Film At The 6th Floor Museum" thread on Bart Kamp's Prayer Man site is informational - however be aware that Kamp's website is fatally biased and excludes information about Prayer Man being Stanton...There is a link on that page showing the history of the film...

Asking posters to document commonly understood things is an obstruction tactic that is used to wear down the opponent...We can safely assume that Jones' copy was a 1st generation film to film copy from all that is known about it...If we lack information on the film's provenance it is directly due to the Prayer Man people willfully avoiding any investigation of that information...I direct people to The Education Forum thread for a good example of organized dishonesty and evasion of evidence under the color of academic discussion...As if a clear image of Sarah Stanton's dress neckline on Prayer Man wasn't good enough...Oh, was I showing "anger and vitriol" there?...

    We are on the same side with respect to the Detail in the Darnell Film that the Sixth Floor does have. Where we part company is You are willing to cavalierly label that film as being a "1st generation film-to-film copy". We do Not even know with certainty that what the Sixth Floor does have came directly from Prof Jones. All of these are nothing more than "stories" that have been handed down over the course of time. What I refer to as "JFK Assassination Urban Legends".
    Don't bet your house and lot on what you heard outta Gary Mack. An extremely nice guy, but he did suddenly become a member of the Sixth Floor Soup Line/$$.
    And again, "NBC 5" is Not "NBC". This is like referring to a Congressional Aide as a Congressman. Only 1 of the 2 stands on the important side of the pay window.
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John Lennon's UFO sighting in New York City 1974

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The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Zeon Mason on Yesterday at 09:37:32 PM »
I think if JFK had been hit at Z190, that at least ONE of those SS agents should have seen JFK move at least a little bit and the SS agents would probably have reacted by Z207. So the Z190 1st shot theory is improbable. There would be some indication in the Z -film at Z190-Z207 that JFK is reacting to a bullet passing thru his back and his throat. The only possibility is a 1.5 sec delayed reaction. Unfortunately that idea seems to have been refuted by a source posted by Dan O. indicating the involuntary nervous system reaction of the human body to being struck by a bullet is less than 0.5 sec. IDK if this is a universal phenomenon that applies in all cases of humans who have been struck by a bullet. However, when added with shooting thru foliage and lack of reaction by SS agents , the Z190 1st shot theory seems improbable. Probably only  Hawaii 5-0 Steve McGarret 
could rescue this theory and it probably would involve finding out if that Chinese Commie Wo Fat used some kind of different bullet.  :D

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Which means you are just a bit less crazy than Benjamin Cole.
I can agree with that.

Nellie and Gayle Newman both described JBC as being turned to the right when hit.  But what I did not realize until today in looking through some of the Commission Documents was that Connally's medical team also agreed that JBC was turned right when hit.  In fact, a report prepared by ASAIC Warren in January 1964 following interviews with the doctors (labelled as CD 326), states that they agreed that his "Torso turned to the right and nearly parallel with the flight of the projectile".   



That would put the shot striking JBC sometime after z250.
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McCloy's opinion was his, not the opinion of the WCR which stated plainly and unambiguously that the missed shot could have been any of the three shots and they did not indicate a preference for any of them. The WCR should be judged on what it said, not on what people think it said.
I see.  So that means we can say that the WC did not find the SBT was correct or necessary to their LN conclusion or that any shot missed:



I can agree with that!
30


   If you read the "News About The Darnell Film" thread by Roger Odisio on the Education Forum you will see the information about the 6th Floor Museum copy of Darnell...In that thread Pat Speer maligns me and says I was a serial insulter whose posts were full of anger and vitriol...Pat is a dirty player who is intentionally sucking up to James Gordon with that slander for the purpose of not allowing my evidence and for keeping the clique intact...What Speer is really doing is dog whistling to make sure my evidence is never shown on the board that proved I was correct...Vinny Palamara was kind enough to post a request that I be allowed to defend my own work on the forum but that request was denied...The Education Forum prefers to duct tape someone's mouth shut and tie their hands behind their back and only allow one side to post - even if the person being censored was correct...People are best slandered and their evidence ignored when they are censored and can't defend themselves...Even though you could plainly see the female dress neckline in the clips posted by Ulrik the issue was decided by Sandy Larsen who had the last word and said the neckline was a CIA forgery...

"The Darnell Film At The 6th Floor Museum" thread on Bart Kamp's Prayer Man site is informational - however be aware that Kamp's website is fatally biased and excludes information about Prayer Man being Stanton...There is a link on that page showing the history of the film...

Asking posters to document commonly understood things is an obstruction tactic that is used to wear down the opponent...We can safely assume that Jones' copy was a 1st generation film to film copy from all that is known about it...If we lack information on the film's provenance it is directly due to the Prayer Man people willfully avoiding any investigation of that information...I direct people to The Education Forum thread for a good example of organized dishonesty and evasion of evidence under the color of academic discussion...As if a clear image of Sarah Stanton's dress neckline on Prayer Man wasn't good enough...Oh, was I showing "anger and vitriol" there?...
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