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21
If you read what they all said and wrote, they showed up in the basement of the Municipal building, and brought Oswald up the back elevator to the DPD offices on the third floor. The party first went to the Homicide office, where they deposited Oswald and the wallet with Baker and other members of Fritz team. Hill and Baker conversed about possession of the revolver, the result being that Hill kept it. Then the arresting party proceeded to the squad room in the Personnel office. Bentley and Lyons went to the hospital to have their injuries examined, while the rest of the party set to writing reports. At some point after Bentley and Lyons left, Westbrook entered the squad room, saw the revolver lying on a desk, and sent for Lt Baker to come get it. At this point, Hill, Carroll, and McDonald put their initials on the weapon and turn it over.   

Nice story. Just too bad it has very little to do with what actually happened.

they showed up in the basement of the Municipal building, and brought Oswald up the back elevator to the DPD offices on the third floor. The party first went to the Homicide office, where they deposited Oswald

True

and the wallet with Baker and other members of Fritz team

This is where you go off the rails.

In his report to Chief Curry, Gerald Hill wrote;

I retained this gun in my posesssion until approximately 3:15 pm Friday, November 22, 1963, when in the presence of  Officers Carroll and McDonald, I turned this weapon over to Detective T. L. Baker of the Homicide and Robbery Bureau. At the time the pistol was released to Detective Baker, McDonald, Carroll, and I had all marked it for identification purposes, and in the presence of McDonald and Carroll, I marked the side of the casing on all the shells, which were also turned over to Detective Baker at the same time

In his report Paul Bentley wrote;

Sgt. Jerry Hill had the S&W 38 cal. Pistol with six (6) shells in his possession on the way tot he City Hall. This pistol was initialed by me and turned over to Lt. Baker and Captain Fritz by Sgt. Hill. I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker.

Bentley does not say he turned over the wallet to Baker before he initialed the pistol. Instead he clearly links the handing over of the wallet to the pistol being turned over, which was before he went to Westbrook's office to make a report. Westbrook told the WC that he saw the gun when it was brought in to the personnel office and then brought to his office.

Mr. BALL. Were you in the personnel office at a time that a gun was brought in?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Yes, sir; it was brought to my office when it shouldn't have been.
Mr. BALL. But it was brought to your office?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Yes; it was.
Mr. BALL. And it was marked by some officer?
Mr. WESTBROOK. It was marked by Officer Jerry Hill and a couple or three more, and when they come in with the gun, I just went on down and told Captain Fritz that the gun was in my office and he sent a man up after it. I didn't take it down.

So either, the revolver was marked by several officers at the personnel office or in Westbrook's office. In either case, the revolver wasn't turned over to Baker as soon as the officers arrived at City Hall with Oswald, which means that the wallet also wasn't handed in to Baker straight away.

Hill and Baker conversed about possession of the revolver, the result being that Hill kept it. Then the arresting party proceeded to the squad room in the Personnel office.

I don't know where you get from that Hill and Baker conversed about possession of the revolver. I can't find that being mentioned anywhere. Did you make it up?

Bentley and Lyons went to the hospital to have their injuries examined, while the rest of the party set to writing reports.

Incorrect. According to Bentley's report;

I then went to Captain Westbrook’s Office to make a report of this arrest.

I then was told by Inspector Kockos to go to Baylor Hospital to receive treatment for the injured foot I received in making the arrest.

he didn't go to the hospital until after making a report of this arrest!

At some point after Bentley and Lyons left, Westbrook entered the squad room, saw the revolver lying on a desk, and sent for Lt Baker to come get it. At this point, Hill, Carroll, and McDonald put their initials on the weapon and turn it over.

Bentley stated he initialed the revolver. Hill claimed he had possession of the revolver all the time. Leaving it on a table in Westbrook's office for anybody to have access to it (like Bentley marking the revolver before everybody else, as you suggest) means that Hill didn't have possession of the revolver all the time. There goes the chain of custody!

We have already seen from Bentley's statement that he (and Lyons) left for the hospital after making his report. By that time the revolver and the wallet had already been turned over to Baker. Hill stated that happened at 3:15 PM, which fits perfectly with the submission of the revolver to the evidence room a few minutes later.

Your little fairytale just doesn't add up. It also doesn't answer how Guy Rose could have been given a wallet, just after Oswald was brought in, when Bentley says he still had the wallet he took from Oswald when he was in Westbrook's office or the personnel room.
22
In her later years, Marina came to distrust Ruth Paine and came to believe that Ruth helped manipulate Oswald.

Who cares? You're not about to start suggesting that Ruth Paine was involved in the assassination conspiracy, are you?
23
   Your thinking is strictly "1 Dimensional". You wanna go directly in front of the Limo, you do not consider "compartmentalize", etc. You're stuck on the 6th Floor and 11/22/63 concepts and technology.

Better than being stuck with imaginary policemen wearing only one glove, an imaginary getaway car and HUUUUGE gates!
24
I guess I'm just supposed to blindly accept the Knott Lab conclusion without them explaining how they arrived at their conclusion.

HUH??? I guess you haven't read the Knott Lab articles on their SBT trajectory analysis nor watched any of the videos on their analysis.

We all know that if the Knott Lab analysis had found the SBT to be possible, WC apologists would be endlessly pointing out that Knott Lab is a respected forensic reconstruction engineering firm and that their analysis dwarfed all previous analyses in the amount of data collected for it.

The SBT died when we learned there was no hole through JFK's tie and no nick on either edge of the tie knot. It also died when we learned that the autopsy doctors determined beyond any doubt that the back wound had no exit point, and that men around the autopsy table could see the end of the probe pushing up against the lining of the chest cavity. It also died when we learned from the released transcript of the 1/27/64 WC executive session that the first two drafts of the autopsy report said nothing about the throat wound being an exit point for the back wound (yeah, because they knew for an absolute fact that the back wound had no exit point).

But SBT believers still cannot bring themselves to face these cold, hard facts.


25

In his Commission testimony Captain Will Fritz was not going to let yankee federal commission members make a good Texan lie so when Commission lawyer Ball asked Fritz where Oswald said he was during the assassination Fritz responded with the truth...He told Ball that Oswald told him he was eating a cheese sandwich and apple in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...That cheese sandwich and apple was Oswald's description, not Fritz's...Ball went in to panic mode and guided Fritz back to the official story, but not before Fritz had gotten the full truth out that Oswald was eating a cheese sandwich and apple in the same 2nd Floor Lunch Room that Carolyn Arnold saw him in...That is the same cheese sandwich and apple that Frazier is talking about that the un-named employee said was on the 2nd Floor Lunch Room table after the assassination...And if it was on the table after the assassination then it had to be right there on the table when Truly & Baker confronted Oswald in that same Lunch Room...The Education Forum calls itself a research forum but it seems to be more interested in writing overbearing rules than actually discussing case-cracking solving of the case like this... 

As to the evidence that was collected against Oswald, that was a combination of defrauded evidence and that evidence which occurs when an Intelligence agent is cooperating with his being framed...

British scholar Anthony Summers was impressed with the evidence that indicates Oswald was not on the sixth floor during the shooting, noting, among other things, that Oswald correctly described Junior Jarman and Harold Norman as walking through the first-floor lunchroom at around noon, strongly indicating that he was indeed in that lunchroom at noon. If one wants to argue that Oswald made a lucky guess, such a guess would have been amazingly lucky indeed since 75 people worked in the Book Depository. Says Summers, 

Other evidence suggests that Oswald not only declared his intention of going downstairs to lunch, but actually did so. It is evidence which, with disregard for the facts, official inquiries have either probed little or ignored.

When Oswald’s coworkers left the sixth floor for their lunch break around 11:45 a.m., they left behind them an Oswald vocally impatient to come down and join them. Two, Bonnie Ray Williams and Billie Lovelady, remembered Oswald shouting to them as they went down in the elevator, “Guys! How about an elevator?” and adding words to the effect: “Close the gate on the elevator” or “Send one of the elevators back up.” Sometime after this, around noon, Bonnie Ray Williams went back to the sixth floor to eat his own lunch in peace and quiet. Later, his lunch bag, chicken bones, and empty pop bottle were found there to prove it. Williams stayed on the sixth floor until at least 12:15 p.m., perhaps until 12:20. He saw nobody, certainly not Oswald.

Under interrogation, Oswald insisted he had followed his workmates down to eat. He said he ate a snack in the first-floor lunchroom alone, but thought he remembered two black employees walking through the room while he was there. Oswald believed one of them was a colleague known as Junior, and said he would recognize the other man but could not recall his name. He said the second man was short. There were two rooms in the Book Depository where workers had lunch, the “domino room” on the first floor and the lunchroom proper on the second floor.

There was indeed a worker called Junior Jarman, and he spent his lunch break largely in the company of another black man called Harold Norman. Norman, who was indeed short, said later he ate in the domino room between 12:00 and 12:15 p.m., and indeed thought “there was someone else in there” at the time, though he couldn’t remember who. At about 12:15, Jarman walked over to the domino room, and together the two black men left the building for a few minutes. Between 12:20 and 12:25 -- just before the assassination -- they strolled through the first floor once more, on the way upstairs to watch the motorcade from a window. If Oswald was not in fact on the first floor at some stage, it is noteworthy that he described two men -- out of a staff of seventy-five -- who actually were there. This information is nowhere noted in the Warren Report. (Not In Your Lifetime: The Defining Book on the JFK Assassination, 2013, pp. 90-91)


As I point out in my article "Where Was Oswald During the Shooting?", since Oswald was seen by Eddie Piper on the first floor at noon, and since Williams was on the sixth floor at noon to eat his lunch, the only time Oswald could have gone up to the sniper's nest was after Williams left the sixth floor at 12:15 or 12:20, but Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald on the first or second floor at 12:15 or 12:20.

There is also good evidence that Oswald did not come down the stairs after the shooting. For example, Roy Truly was already heading up the stairs to the third floor when Officer Marrion Baker reached the second-floor landing and saw Oswald in the second-floor lunchroom or in the hallway leading to the lunchroom. This is a vital fact because it shows that Oswald could not have come down the stairs and gone beyond the hallway door without being seen by Truly, who was running ahead of Baker. The foyer door to the lunchroom had an automatic closer, and Truly specified that did not see the door close, which means Oswald had already been in the lunchroom a good 5-10 seconds before Truly reached the second-floor landing. To put it another way, if Baker actually saw Oswald beyond the foyer door leading to the lunchroom when he reached the second-floor landing, Oswald could not have gone through that door without being seen by Truly. I discuss this in my article "The Baker-Oswald Encounter: Proof That Oswald Did Not Shoot JFK?"

"Where Was Oswald During the Shooting?"

"The Baker-Oswald Encounter: Proof That Oswald Did Not Shoot JFK?"
26
That might be one of the dumbest things you've ever written.
Which part is dumb? The Shaw diagram or Newton’s laws?
27
My guess is that the FBI made her do it by threatening to send her back to Russia.

In her later years, Marina came to distrust Ruth Paine and came to believe that Ruth helped manipulate Oswald.
28
I don't think Dan is dealing in correct terms here...Dan is calling the "Four Days In November" copy the superior copy when it clearly is not...The 'Four Days In November' copy was probably transferred to video at some point and obviously suffered serious degrading in quality, yet somehow Dan gets that this obviously highly-degraded copy is "superior"...I would guess that the Sprague Collection copy is washed out by high end brightness and contrast because the photo enhancement technology of the time showed detail the best at that setting...Dan has it backwards and, although the Sprague copy is washed out badly at one level, it is actually the better copy for identifying detail, which is why it shows the finer features on Shelley and Lovelady better...

And since we now have a valid technical explanation for what we are seeing in these two examples of Couch therefore Dan has come up short in explaining exactly what problem he is having understanding that Shelley's white shirt collar and black jacket...His Duck's Ass hair doo and body shape...His pulling up to talk to Hicks as she ran by...As well as Lovelady's clearly-seen plaid pattern and bald spot are all freely visible in the Sprague copy and therefore confirm the pair are Lovelady & Shelley exactly where they were supposed to be fast-walking up the extension...Dan is ignoring that those two are exactly where they are supposed to be according to testimony after leaving the steps...

   The moment that you use "PROBABLY", gets you an immediate DQ. That don't cut it around here.
29


Extrapolate the Armstrong template and it is really all you need outside of the spy vs spy bs that was designed to confuse the issue...
30
BD-

I don't place a lot of faith in Nagell, but didn't he say LHO had been sent by Moscow to perp the JFKA, but they called off the mission, but LHO refused to end the assignment?

James Woolsey, former CIA director, has a similar narrative, that LHO was programmed in Russia. 
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