21
JFK Assassination & General Discussion & Debate / Re: CIA Wallets at Tenth and Patton
« Last post by Martin Weidmann on Yesterday at 07:01:17 PM »If you read what they all said and wrote, they showed up in the basement of the Municipal building, and brought Oswald up the back elevator to the DPD offices on the third floor. The party first went to the Homicide office, where they deposited Oswald and the wallet with Baker and other members of Fritz team. Hill and Baker conversed about possession of the revolver, the result being that Hill kept it. Then the arresting party proceeded to the squad room in the Personnel office. Bentley and Lyons went to the hospital to have their injuries examined, while the rest of the party set to writing reports. At some point after Bentley and Lyons left, Westbrook entered the squad room, saw the revolver lying on a desk, and sent for Lt Baker to come get it. At this point, Hill, Carroll, and McDonald put their initials on the weapon and turn it over.
Nice story. Just too bad it has very little to do with what actually happened.
they showed up in the basement of the Municipal building, and brought Oswald up the back elevator to the DPD offices on the third floor. The party first went to the Homicide office, where they deposited Oswald
True
and the wallet with Baker and other members of Fritz team
This is where you go off the rails.
In his report to Chief Curry, Gerald Hill wrote;
I retained this gun in my posesssion until approximately 3:15 pm Friday, November 22, 1963, when in the presence of Officers Carroll and McDonald, I turned this weapon over to Detective T. L. Baker of the Homicide and Robbery Bureau. At the time the pistol was released to Detective Baker, McDonald, Carroll, and I had all marked it for identification purposes, and in the presence of McDonald and Carroll, I marked the side of the casing on all the shells, which were also turned over to Detective Baker at the same time
In his report Paul Bentley wrote;
Sgt. Jerry Hill had the S&W 38 cal. Pistol with six (6) shells in his possession on the way tot he City Hall. This pistol was initialed by me and turned over to Lt. Baker and Captain Fritz by Sgt. Hill. I turned his identification over to Lt. Baker.
Bentley does not say he turned over the wallet to Baker before he initialed the pistol. Instead he clearly links the handing over of the wallet to the pistol being turned over, which was before he went to Westbrook's office to make a report. Westbrook told the WC that he saw the gun when it was brought in to the personnel office and then brought to his office.
Mr. BALL. Were you in the personnel office at a time that a gun was brought in?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Yes, sir; it was brought to my office when it shouldn't have been.
Mr. BALL. But it was brought to your office?
Mr. WESTBROOK. Yes; it was.
Mr. BALL. And it was marked by some officer?
Mr. WESTBROOK. It was marked by Officer Jerry Hill and a couple or three more, and when they come in with the gun, I just went on down and told Captain Fritz that the gun was in my office and he sent a man up after it. I didn't take it down.
So either, the revolver was marked by several officers at the personnel office or in Westbrook's office. In either case, the revolver wasn't turned over to Baker as soon as the officers arrived at City Hall with Oswald, which means that the wallet also wasn't handed in to Baker straight away.
Hill and Baker conversed about possession of the revolver, the result being that Hill kept it. Then the arresting party proceeded to the squad room in the Personnel office.
I don't know where you get from that Hill and Baker conversed about possession of the revolver. I can't find that being mentioned anywhere. Did you make it up?
Bentley and Lyons went to the hospital to have their injuries examined, while the rest of the party set to writing reports.
Incorrect. According to Bentley's report;
I then went to Captain Westbrook’s Office to make a report of this arrest.
I then was told by Inspector Kockos to go to Baylor Hospital to receive treatment for the injured foot I received in making the arrest.
he didn't go to the hospital until after making a report of this arrest!
At some point after Bentley and Lyons left, Westbrook entered the squad room, saw the revolver lying on a desk, and sent for Lt Baker to come get it. At this point, Hill, Carroll, and McDonald put their initials on the weapon and turn it over.
Bentley stated he initialed the revolver. Hill claimed he had possession of the revolver all the time. Leaving it on a table in Westbrook's office for anybody to have access to it (like Bentley marking the revolver before everybody else, as you suggest) means that Hill didn't have possession of the revolver all the time. There goes the chain of custody!
We have already seen from Bentley's statement that he (and Lyons) left for the hospital after making his report. By that time the revolver and the wallet had already been turned over to Baker. Hill stated that happened at 3:15 PM, which fits perfectly with the submission of the revolver to the evidence room a few minutes later.
Your little fairytale just doesn't add up. It also doesn't answer how Guy Rose could have been given a wallet, just after Oswald was brought in, when Bentley says he still had the wallet he took from Oswald when he was in Westbrook's office or the personnel room.
Recent Posts