JFK Assassination Forum

We could go round and round, but I have a "plausibility problem" with LBJ putting 100% faith in Byrd to get this done (don't tell me how) ... Byrd putting 100% faith in Cason to get this done (don't tell me how) ... Cason putting 100% faith in Shelley to get this done (don't tell me how) ... and Shelley somehow convincing Dougherty. Once the dominoes start to fall, it's likely going to lead right back up the chain - Dougherty knows Shelley convinced him, Shelley knows Cason convinced him, etc., etc., the net result being that LBJ is actually putting 100% faith in Dougherty (or at least in "whomever Byrd finds to carry out the deed"). Is it really plausible that, faced with possible execution, Dougherty is going to remain rock-solid and take the fall or, if he doesn't, that Shelley is going to remain rock-solid and trust in his lawyer's ability to portray Dougherty as a nutcase? For this to work, the participants below LBJ and Byrd would either have to have out-of-control, foaming-at-the-mouth hatred of JFK or to have been promised some incredible financial payoff. For this to be plausible, I think you'd have to flesh out in greater detail who Cason, Shelley and Dougherty really were both before and after the JFKA - is there any evidence of this sort of hatred or payoff? And, yes, fitting Oswald into that scenario is a complete head-scratcher to me. I just can't see LBJ taking all these incredible risks; if he wanted JFK dead, I think we'd be talking about a two-person conspiracy - LBJ and some gunman known only to him, and a hit far less complex than Dealey Plaza. Just my $0.02 worth; I realize I'm not going to talk you out of this theory, but I think it would need to be fleshed out in much greater detail.

It's just an idea, it's just speculation, it's just a theory.
Your counter-arguments are just really weird.
What's all this about "100% faith"?
It'd be good to have a reasonable discussion about it but you don't seem willing to accept that a small group of people with the same views could organise something so incredibly simple...firing a rifle!
LBJ and Byrd benefitted beyond measure. Cason was on the FBI radar for a reported comment about shooting JFK.
Shelley and Dougherty 'believed in the cause'.
Fire a rifle out of a window and blame someone else. That's it. You don't seem to appreciate the simplicity of it because I suspect you don't want to. Here's a good example:

"I just can't see LBJ taking all these incredible risks;"

Firstly, he has taken zero risks as has already been explained but you deliberately refuse to acknowledge that because you need to come up with some kind of argument, no matter how weak.
In the scenario I have proposed name one 'incredible risk' LBJ has taken.
LBJ, Byrd and Cason have zero exposure. A few private conversations of which there can be no record.

And your "faced with possible execution" argument means nobody did it.
The assassination never happened because you don't accept that anyone could possibly do such a thing faced with possible execution.
According to you nobody has ever been murdered!!

And your suggestion that LBJ would use a gunman who he knew is bananas.

LBJ was about to lose literally everything. His single hope was that JFK died and he became President. This was his one and only hope of avoiding utter disgrace and imprisonment. This is the motive.
So he made it happen.
Is it a coincidence that JFK was shot from the building owned by one of his best friends or that this best friend was awarded one of the first military contracts of the LBJ era? Or that this best friend founded the Civil Air Patrol of which Oswald had been a member or who was a good friend of De Morenschildt, the man who befriended Oswald? The same best friend who made a killing buying stocks in his own company weeks before the assassination and who happened to be out of the country for the first time ever at the time of the assassination?
Of course all this could be coincidence but it can also be used to suggest a theory regarding the assassination.

You are 100% correct when you say you won't be able to talk me out of this theory but that's not to do with the strength of the theory, it's to do with the weakness of your arguments.

Royell steered me to a Couch clip which is the best quality I've come across:



I cropped and blew up the two men:



There is a hint of something on the shirt in this image that may be a pattern but I wouldn't have an idea how to get it to stand out.
Maybe someone who knows what they're doing can have a go.

    Those "2 Guys" alongside the "getaway" car above, just exited that vehicle. DPD Officer Smith, (on the (L)), just ran past the driver side of their car, and they witnessed DPD Motorcycle officer Baker, ( running behind them), rounding the corner and parking his motorcycle along the Elm St Curb. All of this is happening about 20 seconds after the Kill Shot. These conspirators did Not anticipate law enforcement being all around them this quickly. They are now distancing themselves from this "getaway" car and heading toward the "wide open" Huge Gates. Their expected passenger(s) would soon be exiting those same "wide open" Huge Gates.

So? What does that prove?
You haven't even proved there was a getaway car. You just made that part up.
I guess until you came along, there was nobody with enough imagination to dream them up.
We were waiting for the right person to come along. Seombody who wouldn't be emgarrassed to propose them.
You could be right. There have always been very silly people looking into the JFKA.
Silly shit will always be contrary to the truth.

   As I continue to show this Forum you do Not understand this "getaway" plan, you only get increasingly frustrated. You resort to profanity amid the mistyping of the simplest of words. Try cold compresses. 

I worked with a deputy public defender in a completely podunk county - his name was Ben Cole, really! - who, together with his devoutly Mormon wife, had adopted, one at a time, SIX Ukrainian children. Do you have any idea of the work and expense involved in doing that? He never even mentioned it to me; I learned about it second-hand. Even though our offices were theoretically bitter enemies (not me, fortunately, since I did only civil work), I thereafter thought of him (and still do) as Saint Ben.

Somewhat more relevant to this thread: On the first morning of my first visit to Minsk in 2007, I happened to have breakfast at the Minsk Hotel with a woman form the State Department. She mentioned Ukraine as a cautionary tale. In contrast to the other former Soviet republics, she feared that Ukraine was too quickly embracing the worst of Western culture. At that time, Ukraine seemed to be riding high - but it was indeed a hotbed of Western-style corruption. Certainly, we cannot "blame" Ukraine for Putin's unilateral invasion, but I have to wonder if it would have happened if Ukraine had not moved so quickly toward Westernization.

To close on a humorous note that my wife taught me: She said that the Ukrainian language is so "unmelodic" that a Soviet expression for anything that simply doesn't work was "Ukraine opera." At the moment, Russia's invasion is proving to be something of a Ukraine opera for Putin.

That Moscow and Tehran narratives have flooded into the JFKA research community, from the beginning, and even more in the present day, is hardly controversial.

Now a Education Forum "moderator" Willim Niedernut is citing the Moon of Alabama blog. Well, lunatics of a feather flock together, no?

Don't feel bad is you never delved into the demented little corner of the internet known as Moon of Alabama. I never heard of it either, until advised by a friend that Niedernut was citing the blog as a source. You really have to look under a rock to find this stuff.

Here is the AI version of Moon of Alabama:

"While not classified by researchers as a covert Russian state-directed covert operation, the Moon of Alabama blog functions as a pro-Kremlin, anti-Western conspiracy website that consistently echoes and amplifies official Russian disinformation narratives.

Operating since 2004 under the pseudonym "Bernhard," the site is an English-language commentary blog focused heavily on foreign policy, military conflicts, and geopolitics. In disinformation tracking, the site is recognized for:

Amplification of State Media: The blog frequently cites and defends Russian state-owned media outlets like RT and Sputnik.

Discrediting Human Rights Claims: Researchers have documented the blog's role in publishing articles that cast doubt on reports of Russian atrocities in Ukraine, often sharing talking points timed to align with Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs statements.

Ideological Alignment: Rather than acting as a covert troll operation, Moon of Alabama operates as an independent actor within an alternative-media, conspiratorial ecosystem.

It strongly supports isolationist policies, consistently blames NATO for the invasion of Ukraine, and advocates heavily in favor of Kremlin-friendly geopolitical outcomes.

Ideological Alignment: Rather than acting as a covert troll operation, Moon of Alabama operates as an independent actor within an alternative-media, conspiratorial ecosystem. It strongly supports isolationist policies, consistently blames NATO for the invasion of Ukraine, and advocates heavily in favor of Kremlin-friendly geopolitical outcomes."

---30---

BTW, the Moon of Alabama blog is not written by some guy in the Cotton State...but rather Bernhard Horstmann, a German-based "independent political commentator." Likely a Russian stooge op.

So William Niedernut is a fan of Bernhard Horstmann. Why am I not surprised?

The KGB's JFKA narrative has long been prominent in JFKA research circles, even after the "Hunt letter" was exposed. Some things never change. See Oliver Stone and Putin.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.

It is ironic, and perhaps revealing, that Niederhut frequently accuses sane, reasonable WC skeptics of being Operation Mockingbird operatives. If I worked for Mockingbird, I would be thrilled beyond measure to see wingnuts like Niederhut damage the credible case for a JFKA plot by peddling crazy theories such as the 9/11 Truther garbage while arguing for a JFKA conspiracy.