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21
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Zeon Mason on Yesterday at 11:49:51 PM »
@ Royell:

It’s not Humpty Dumpty. It’s more like the 6 Million Dollar Man. We have the technology. We can rebuild him … faster … stronger … better than ever  :D
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 11:38:08 PM »
    You guys continue trying to make LN Oswald fit.

Oswald made Oswald fit.
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He does Not. And this stuff you are now pushing was cooked up close to 50 yrs after the fact. When your original LN theory "just don't hunt".

What "original LN theory" would that be. The WC findings have needed no revision.
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The elapsed firing time for the 3 shots has now been expanded from 6+ seconds to almost 11 seconds.

You seem to be operating under the popular misconception that the WC concluded that Oswald fired his 3 shots under 6 seconds. That was never a WC conclusion no matter how many times the CT side has asserted it was. Six Seconds in Dallas was a book written by Josiah Thompson. He's and LN. Maybe he chose to that scenario because it was the most improbable and therefore the easiest to attack.
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Your "experience is the best teacher" applies to the LN Theory having fallen apart. And here you guys are going Humpty Dumpty and trying to put it back together again. With a new and improved elapsed firing time pushing 11 seconds. Which only makes the SS look like the "Sad Sack" you are trying to turn Oswald into. I do believe Oswald was involved. But as a shooter? Nope. Oswald was the classic "inside man".

The WCR never had a great fall. It still stands tall almost 62 years after it was first released and has needed no revisions to remain viable. Meanwhile on silly conspiracy theory after another has fallen by the wayside. Badgeman, Greer did it, storm drain shooter, Mortal Error, etc. None have stood the test of time.

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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Zeon Mason on Yesterday at 11:31:35 PM »
Why would you assume Oswald fired the first shot in a sudden panic? He had ample time to study the layout. Why couldn't he have decided ahead of time, that he could probably get off a shot after the limo turned onto Elm and maybe 2 or 3 more after the limo cleared the tree. That first shot was the most difficult one but he had a better chance of scoring a hit than if he didn't take that shot.

He could have had the same mindset of hockey or soccer players. They know that the more shots on goal you take, the greater your chances of getting one past the goalie. Even if he missed that first shot, he would still have the chance to take the later shots. I wouldn't second guess his choices given that he succeeded in what he was trying to do.

1. Do you agree that the closer the 1st shot is to the limo as it goes  down Elm st, the quicker the shooter had to adjust/ move the rifle to track the target JFK?

2. Do you agree that the iron sights on the MC rifle used by the TSBD shooter were probably zeroed for the range of 200 yards ( or meters ) ?

3. Do you agree that when the MC rifle was found that  scope was out of alignment so bad that it required shims under the mount? The metal bracket was not bent so it looks as though the scope reticle could  never have been adjusted properly with the elevation nob.
4. In your opinion , if the scope had been previously zeroed for a range of 100 yds , would it have lost that zero if the rifle was disassembled?

5. Do you agree that the 3 stacked  boxes in the SN 6th floor TSBD were most likely used as a rifle rest by the TSBD shooter and thus indicate he had thought out in advance how he was going to fire his rifle in a calm controlled manner.?

6. Do you agree that the window was only open approx 15.5 inches per the WC photo using a surveyors measuring stick?

If you answered yes to the 6 questions above, then you must concede if the shooter stood up to take an early  1st shot, that he was taking a roll the dice 1st shot totally contrary to what appears to be his original plan to wait for the limo to go down Elm st far enough so that he had an easier shot using the box platform and when everyone is looking away from TSBD at the limo.

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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Why did Oswald kill JFK?
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 11:26:08 PM »
I voted  “none of the above” in Major Tom’s poll.  That was because other options such as LBJ/Malcolm Wallace , Alpha 66, John Milteer Nationalists , KGB, Military Industrialists, and MK Ultra were left.

As they should have been since there is exactly zero evidence any of the above were involved. Of course, there is zero evidence of CIA involvement either but they were included.
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The 2 questions that I keep pondering are:

1. Why did whomever assassin(s) opt for killing JFK  by shooting from  a high elevation  while JFK was a moving target in a limo with his wife next to him and JC and wife in front of him?

Because that was the hand Oswald was dealt and he had to make the best of it. I'd say he did pretty well.
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2. Why did the assassins choose Dealey Plaza and TSBD as the high elevation spot to shoot from?

The simple answer is that Oswald, a kooky Marxist who owned a bolt action rifle saw an opportunity when he read in the newspaper that the motorcade route would go past his place of work, the TSBD, in Dealey Plaza.

The simple answer is usually the correct one as it is in this case.
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To answer the same 2 questions from a CT perspective requires more complex speculations such as that the mastermind conspirator(s) must have really hated JFK with a passion. He/they opted for a spectacle killing by rifle fire in Dealey Plaza because he/they desired it to be filmed and photographed from all directions.

You've almost answered your own question. Had the assassin(s) chosen the time and place as opposed to taking the one handed to him, there were a lot better opportunities. In front of the Ft. Worth Hotel when he was giving his speech that morning presented a stationary target surrounded by lots of tall buildings. An easy one shot, one kill before anyone would even locate the shooter. As long as JFK didn't suddenly bow his head as happened in the movie Day of the Jackal.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Why did Oswald kill JFK?
« Last post by Zeon Mason on Yesterday at 10:39:25 PM »
I voted  “none of the above” in Major Tom’s poll.  That was because other options such as LBJ/Malcolm Wallace , Alpha 66, John Milteer Nationalists , KGB, Military Industrialists, and MK Ultra were left.

The 2 questions that I keep pondering are:

1. Why did whomever assassin(s) opt for killing JFK  by shooting from  a high elevation  while JFK was a moving target in a limo with his wife next to him and JC and wife in front of him?

2. Why did the assassins choose Dealey Plaza and TSBD as the high elevation spot to shoot from?

The simple answer is that Oswald, a kooky Marxist who owned a bolt action rifle saw an opportunity when he read in the newspaper that the motorcade route would go past his place of work, the TSBD, in Dealey Plaza.

To answer the same 2 questions from a CT perspective requires more complex speculations such as that the mastermind conspirator(s) must have really hated JFK with a passion. He/they opted for a spectacle killing by rifle fire in Dealey Plaza because he/they desired it to be filmed and photographed from all directions.


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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Royell Storing on Yesterday at 10:00:12 PM »
Oswald was trained how to shoot a rifle. He was not trained as a sniper or an assassin. He needed on the job training to figure that out. Not surprisingly, he failed in his first attempt. The second time around he missed his first shot as well but then settled down and scored hits with his next two shots. I guess experience is the best teacher.
Oswald used a bolt action rifle because that's what he had and he chose that particular rifle because it was cheap and so was he. It should have been sufficient for his attempt to kill Walker but he choked and aimed high, maybe because he failed to take into account that either the scope or the fixed sights were set for much longer ranges than he tried to kill Walker from. His killing of JFK wasn't exactly world class shooting but it was good enough to get the job done. One complete miss and the two hits were spaced almost a foot apart. That kind of marksmanship would win you the booby prize at your local turkey shoot, but it was good enough for what he had in mind.

    You guys continue trying to make LN Oswald fit. He does Not. And this stuff you are now pushing was cooked up close to 50 yrs after the fact. When your original LN theory "just don't hunt". The elapsed firing time for the 3 shots has now been expanded from 6+ seconds to almost 11 seconds. Your "experience is the best teacher" applies to the LN Theory having fallen apart. And here you guys are going Humpty Dumpty and trying to put it back together again. With a new and improved elapsed firing time pushing 11 seconds. Which only makes the SS look like the "Sad Sack" you are trying to turn Oswald into. I do believe Oswald was involved. But as a shooter? Nope. Oswald was the classic "inside man". 
27
It is only important to someone who doesn't know how to weigh evidence. It's a real nothing burger.
Billy Lovelady testified that he heard Oswald in the east elevator as he was breaking for lunch but did not actually see him. When asked if he saw Oswald after that his one word answer was "No". He wouldn't have seen Oswald leave building because after the shooting, Gloria Calvary told him and Bill Shelley that the President had been shot and he and Shelley then headed down the Elm. St. extension toward the railroad tracks. It's amazing how you could dream up your BS story from that.

It is only important to someone who doesn't know how to weigh evidence.

And you know how to weigh evidence? Really?
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No, I get it...

The FBI and Warren Commission did ZERO investigation of one of the most important events in the Depository, in the form of how Oswald left the Depository, because what I wrote above is just completely ridiculous and doesn't give a shockingly tight-fitting reason for it...I get it...

It is only important to someone who doesn't know how to weigh evidence. It's a real nothing burger.
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And, even though, in a presidential assassination, Lovelady not telling the authorities in the original 1963 investigation that he saw Oswald exit through the front door is, technically, a with-holding of evidence crime, that HSCA and FBI just decided to not confront Lovelady cause, ah, ehm, they already knew...Yeah, that's the ticket because you know how forgiving those Specter-types are...This is the same FBI that committed Ralph Yates...But, no, I get it...

Still waiting for you to give a credible answer to that...

Billy Lovelady testified that he heard Oswald in the east elevator as he was breaking for lunch but did not actually see him. When asked if he saw Oswald after that his one word answer was "No". He wouldn't have seen Oswald leave building because after the shooting, Gloria Calvary told him and Bill Shelley that the President had been shot and he and Shelley then headed down the Elm. St. extension toward the railroad tracks. It's amazing how you could dream up your BS story from that.
29
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 09:31:46 PM »
   What you are describing above is not a "plan". Certainly not a "plan" by anyone with military training such as Oswald. This stuff about a shooter firing a rifle almost straight down through a 1/2 open window and then sitting down and firing 2 more shots with a bolt action rifle is not reasonable when applied to Oswald. Max Holland started this rubbish and for whatever reason some of you have bought into it. There is No Evidence that Oswald or anyone else did this cockamamie maneuver.

Oswald was trained how to shoot a rifle. He was not trained as a sniper or an assassin. He needed on the job training to figure that out. Not surprisingly, he failed in his first attempt. The second time around he missed his first shot as well but then settled down and scored hits with his next two shots. I guess experience is the best teacher.
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   And if the shooter was serious about this "more shots on goal" hooey, he would Never have used a bolt action rifle to begin with. ALL of this is totally "out there"!

Oswald used a bolt action rifle because that's what he had and he chose that particular rifle because it was cheap and so was he. It should have been sufficient for his attempt to kill Walker but he choked and aimed high, maybe because he failed to take into account that either the scope or the fixed sights were set for much longer ranges than he tried to kill Walker from. His killing of JFK wasn't exactly world class shooting but it was good enough to get the job done. One complete miss and the two hits were spaced almost a foot apart. That kind of marksmanship would win you the booby prize at your local turkey shoot, but it was good enough for what he had in mind.
30
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Royell Storing on Yesterday at 09:20:07 PM »
Why would you assume Oswald fired the first shot in a sudden panic? He had ample time to study the layout. Why couldn't he have decided ahead of time, that he could probably get off a shot after the limo turned onto Elm and maybe 2 or 3 more after the limo cleared the tree. That first shot was the most difficult one but he had a better chance of scoring a hit than if he didn't take that shot.

He could have had the same mindset of hockey or soccer players. They know that the more shots on goal you take, the greater your chances of getting one past the goalie. Even if he missed that first shot, he would still have the chance to take the later shots. I wouldn't second guess his choices given that he succeeded in what he was trying to do.

   What you are describing above is not a "plan". Certainly not a "plan" by anyone with military training such as Oswald. This stuff about a shooter firing a rifle almost straight down through a 1/2 open window and then sitting down and firing 2 more shots with a bolt action rifle is not reasonable when applied to Oswald. Max Holland started this rubbish and for whatever reason some of you have bought into it. There is No Evidence that Oswald or anyone else did this cockamamie maneuver.
   And if the shooter was serious about this "more shots on goal" hooey, he would Never have used a bolt action rifle to begin with. ALL of this is totally "out there"!
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