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21
Good find!

After seeing this woman briefly in David Wolper's "Four Days In November" film, I always wondered what her name was.

Mrs. Williams' March '64 statement can also be seen in CD706 (below):

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11104#relPageId=103
22
"And he said look, there's a jacket under the car. He pointed this jacket out to me and it was laying slightly under the rear of one of the cars. I think it was an old Pontiac sitting there, if I remember right. So I walked over and reached under and picked up the jacket." -- Capt. Westbrook



Nice try

Mr. WESTBROOK. Now, I did, when I left this scene, I turned this jacket over to one of the officers and I went by that church, I think, and I think that would be on 10th Street.

Now, can you bridge the gap between Westbrook giving the white jacket to "onë of the officers" and Westbrook submitting a grey jacket to the evidence room some 2 hours later?
23
Earlene Roberts isn't important because we have much more compelling evidence than her recollection, namely that the witnesses to the shooting saw him wearing a jacket and HIS jacket was found under a car a short distance away.
Right. Maybe Oswald's jacket ended up under the car by PFM.
Right. Maybe it is just a coincidence that the jacket that was found under the car had fibers that matched the shirt Oswald was wearing. The same matching fibers were also found on the butt plate of the assassination rifle. But I guess that is all just an amazing coincidence and that Oswald was just the unluckiest SOB that ever lived.

And those are the words of an extremely confused person;

Earlene Roberts isn't important because we have much more compelling evidence than her recollection, namely that the witnesses to the shooting saw him wearing a jacket and HIS jacket was found under a car a short distance away.

Roberts is important, because if Oswald left the rooming house without a jacket, nobody could have seen him "wearing a jacket" while shooting Tippit. And no, there is not a shred of evidence that the (white) jacket found under a car is the same one (the grey one) that's now in evidence as CE 162. Once again the master of assumptions strikes again!

Right. Maybe Oswald's jacket ended up under the car by PFM.

So, now he believes in magic when he needs it!  :D

Right. Maybe it is just a coincidence that the jacket that was found under the car had fibers that matched the shirt Oswald was wearing. The same matching fibers were also found on the butt plate of the assassination rifle.

Oh boy, here he goes again with the fibers BS! But never mind, it doesn't matter as it is of course probable that fibers of Oswald's shirt were found in the grey jacket that's now in evidence. What you still can't figure out is that there is no evidence whatsoever that the white jacket found under the car is the same as Oswald's grey jacket that's now in evidence. I guess it must all be just a little too difficult for you to understand this.

But I guess that is all just an amazing coincidence and that Oswald was just the unluckiest SOB that ever lived.

So, being an unlucky SOB makes a murderer in your mind?
24
"And he said look, there's a jacket under the car. He pointed this jacket out to me and it was laying slightly under the rear of one of the cars. I think it was an old Pontiac sitting there, if I remember right. So I walked over and reached under and picked up the jacket." -- Capt. Westbrook

25
Not sure we can even conclude that ANY jacket was found under under ANY car in ANY parking lot.
I don’t know how a story that is claimed to have been 1st heard from an unidentified person could be introduced as evidence, but I’m not a lawyer so I’m not sure what the rules  of evidence are. Just seems like hearsay  imo.

Good point, but don't worry... the LNs are going to go full "It's common sense" to justify them jumping to conclusions from one piece of unauthenticated evidence to the next.

That's about the only thing that makes participating on this forum fun.

As for the jacket;

According to Captain Westbrook a patrol officer who was never identified pointed out a jacket under a car. In radio traffic with the DPD dispatchers this jacket was described as white. This description was of course the result it being seen in bright sunlight. Westbrook then said he gave the white jacket to another unidentified officer before moving on to the Texas Theater.
Then the jacket disappears. We don't know where it was or who had it. When a jacket shows up again, it's at the police station and it has the markings of seven officers on it who never were (or came forward to being) in the chain of custody, and guess what, the jacket was suddenly grey. Go figure!
26
You have to admire their flawed logic;

Earlene Roberts is "probably one of the least important pieces of evidence we have".... "She said he had his jacket on" and he has no reason to doubt what Roberts said.

Never mind there is no corroboration for it, like the kind he demands for Buell Frazier, and Roberts's employer calls her not credible!


Earlene Roberts isn't important because we have much more compelling evidence than her recollection, namely that the witnesses to the shooting saw him wearing a jacket and HIS jacket was found under a car a short distance away.
Quote


"The fact Oswald was seen throwing the jacket under a car and a jacket was retrieved from there that was identified belonging to him is enough for me."

Never mind that there is no chain of custody to show that the white jacket found under the car is the same as the grey jacket that Oswald owned

Right. Maybe Oswald's jacket ended up under the car by PFM.
Quote

Even less so when the DPD dispatcher said;

Wanted for investigation for assault to murder on a police officer: A white male; approximately thirty; about five foot eight; slender build; has black hair; a white jacket; a white shirt and dark trousers. The suspect last seen running west on Jefferson from 400 East Jefferson. 1:24

And the officer (279) calling in the find said;

We believe we've got this suspect on shooting this officer out here. Got his white jacket. Believe he dumped it on this parking lot behind this service station at 400 block East Jefferson across from Dudley Hughes and he had a white jacket on. We believe this is it.

And then;

"So I will concede that no one is on record as having seen Oswald toss the jacket under the car."

So, if nobody saw Oswald leave a jacket under the car, and the suspect was wearing a white shirt (which Oswald didn't) where does that leave him with the "I have no reason to doubt Roberts" BS

And then it comes;

The fact is that Oswald's jacket was found under a car and I think we can conclude it didn't get there by PFM

So a jacket was found under a car and an officer believed it was the suspect's jacket (and wearing a white shirt) is all he has got left!

And it would indeed have been PFM for Oswald's grey jacket (CE 162) to be found under a car in Oak Cliff and being described as white, when there is evidence that places that grey jacket in Irving on Thursday evening!

Right. Maybe it is just a coincidence that the jacket that was found under the car had fibers that matched the shirt Oswald was wearing. The same matching fibers were also found on the butt plate of the assassination rifle. But I guess that is all just an amazing coincidence and that Oswald was just the unluckiest SOB that ever lived.
27
   So, "prove" me wrong. (1) Prove there is a car parked alongside the Island on the Wiegman Film, and (2) Prove that's Motorcycle Officer Haygood with Officer Harkness on the Darnell Film.
   I also recently found another piece of evidence regarding what I believe was the "getaway" car. If you're interested let me know. I don't want to pile on. The Evidence Needle is already "pegged" in my direction.

I've told you this a number of times before. The person proposing a hypothesis has the burden of supplying the proof to support it. A hypothesis isn't accepted as the default truth until somebody disproves it. The person proposing it has the burden of proving it is correct. You haven't even come close to doing that.

I really don't care if you post additional "evidence" for your theory or not. Given the quality of what you've posted so far, I doubt it would make much difference.

However, if you really believe you've made a bombshell discovery that has eluded an army of amateur researchers for the past 62 years, why are you wasting your time presenting it to the major legacy news organizations. They can reach a much bigger audience than what you have here. Maybe they will be much more impressed by your research than the followers of this forum. Fame and fortune could be awaiting you.
28

If you can do that then I could live with the shooter having shot thru some tree foliage at Z193 because he might have been using the scope if it were aligned and zeroed , thus have his LOS  very narrowly focused around JFK and his peripheral vision limited such  the tree foliage “snuck up” on him just as he fired the 1st shot.


I don't know why I didn't think of that before but of course Oswald's view of JFK would have been blocked by the tree from Z166 until Z210 which make highly unlikely Oswald would have even attempted a shot at Z193. Why would he do that when he would have a clear shot at JFK if he just waited one more second. JFK cleared the tree at Z210 which is why the WC concluded that is the earliest time he could have fired the single bullet. In reality, he squeezed the shot off about a half second after JFK came into the clear. He might have been tracking is target while JFK was passing under the tree, but it would have been very stupid to try to force the shot before he had a clear line of fire.

This same line of thinking casts aspersions on the HSCA conclusion that the single bullet was fired at Z189. I don't know what they were sniffing when they came up with that one. I'll bet they based that conclusion on the flawed acoustics evidence and not on the genuine Z-film.
29
You have to admire their flawed logic;

Earlene Roberts is "probably one of the least important pieces of evidence we have".... "She said he had his jacket on" and he has no reason to doubt what Roberts said.

Never mind there is no corroboration for it, like the kind he demands for Buell Frazier, and Roberts's employer calls her not credible!

"The fact Oswald was seen throwing the jacket under a car and a jacket was retrieved from there that was identified belonging to him is enough for me."

Never mind that there is no chain of custody to show that the white jacket found under the car is the same as the grey jacket that Oswald owned

Even less so when the DPD dispatcher said;

Wanted for investigation for assault to murder on a police officer: A white male; approximately thirty; about five foot eight; slender build; has black hair; a white jacket; a white shirt and dark trousers. The suspect last seen running west on Jefferson from 400 East Jefferson. 1:24

And the officer (279) calling in the find said;

We believe we've got this suspect on shooting this officer out here. Got his white jacket. Believe he dumped it on this parking lot behind this service station at 400 block East Jefferson across from Dudley Hughes and he had a white jacket on. We believe this is it.

And then;

"So I will concede that no one is on record as having seen Oswald toss the jacket under the car."

So, if nobody saw Oswald leave a jacket under the car, and the suspect was wearing a white shirt (which Oswald didn't) where does that leave him with the "I have no reason to doubt Roberts" BS

And then it comes;

The fact is that Oswald's jacket was found under a car and I think we can conclude it didn't get there by PFM

So a jacket was found under a car and an officer believed it was the suspect's jacket (and wearing a white shirt) is all he has got left!

And it would indeed have been PFM for Oswald's grey jacket (CE 162) to be found under a car in Oak Cliff and being described as white, when there is evidence that places that grey jacket in Irving on Thursday evening!

Not sure we can even conclude that ANY jacket was found under under ANY car in ANY parking lot.
I don’t know how a story that is claimed to have been 1st heard from an unidentified person could be introduced as evidence, but I’m not a lawyer so I’m not sure what the rules  of evidence are. Just seems like hearsay  imo.
30
Maybe we should have a poll taken to determine what others think on two points:

The truth is not up for a vote. There is only one truth whether a majority believe it or not. If a poll could decide these questions, we might as well drop this discussion now because a majority of people believe JFK died as a result of a conspiracy and that would make us both wrong.
Quote

In z193:


A. Is JBC's face turned relative to his chest or is it facing the same direction as his chest?
B. Is JBC's chest turned to JBC's right of the sightline from Zapruder, to the left of that sightline, or is his chest facing directly at Zapruder ?

I suggest that his face and chest are facing about the same direction or possibly a bit farther to JBC's right a few degrees.  I suggest that his chest, therefore, is facing well to JBC's right because we can see the entire left side of JBC's face and none of his right side.

I don't know what you are looking at. There is no question JBC's head is turned far more than his shoulders. His head/shoulder relation looks very similar to what we see in JFK whose head is turned sharply to his right while his shoulders are turned slightly left of Zapruder's sight line. We can see the left side of JBC's face and we'd even be able to see his ear if the overhead bar were not blocking the view. If his shoulders were turned that far, we'd be able to see the outside of his left arm. Instead we have a frontal view of his chest.
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