JFK Assassination Forum

TG-

This is not speculation, but observation: The CIA often used personnel who were detailed from other defense agencies.

For example, when the Kennedy Administration decided to have the SV Diem brothers waxed, they turned over dirty work to Lucien Conein, US Army officer but actual OSS/CIA operative.

Same deal on Hemming?

I'm straying far from the original topic but I have to ask: You think Conein killed the Diem brothers? It wasn't the coup plotters?

The accounts I've read said that he was enraged and devastated at their deaths. And at the time of their deaths he was either at the American Embassy or the JGS headquarters. He certainly wasn't with the Diems or the plotters. So how could he kill them?

And who in the Kennedy Administration gave the order to "wax" the Diems? The evidence for me is that they certainly looked the other way, told the coup plotters that they couldn't endorse the act but had no opinion on it otherwise. That's essentially a green light (I'm surprised that JFK was stunned when he learned about their deaths). I think Lodge in particular was guilty of letting it happen. He could have ordered a flight for them to get them out. Anyway, it's my understanding that it was Big Mingh and his followers who killed them not Conein.

Here's an account by Rufus Phillips who was there during the coup (from his book: "Why Vietnam Matters"). Phillips was a CIA officer stationed at the US Embassy in Saigon. The "Lou" is Conein. Yes, for example isn't proof but I am not aware of contrary evidence that Conein endorsed the killing or called for it or okayed it much less did it himself.

The exit wound on the palm side of the wrist could have been made by a bone shard.

Yes, and it could have been caused by a miniature UFO, too.

   The above would be perfect if Towner was looking through a monocular. And then she was panning too.

I think her camera had only one lens. She wasn't filming through binoculars. What does panning have to do with the position of JFK in the last frame?

If Tina Towner was right that the first shot occurred even 3 or 4 seconds after she stopped filming then there was no early first shot miss.

TG-

If the CIA murdered JFK, it was likely through KGB operatives embedded in the CIA, and G2 allies, who manipulated LHO.

That is, it was not the CIA proper (that is, Dulles-Angleton-Harvey), but KGB'ers in CIA clothing. You know the Solie story.

Alpha 66, which had a house in Dallas remains an interesting suspect. By late 1963, Alpha 66 was actually under the aegis of Army intel, and was incorrigible.

Evidently, Gus Russo does not want to discuss with me who in New Orleans from the G2 was working on LHO.

Maybe!

I was talking about both and got confused between this and the First Shot thread.  But the point is the same.  The idea that anyone would have forgotten about the first shot is absurd.  They may not have counted all the shots but the idea that they did not notice the shots is something that you are just speculating about to explain why not a single witness put the first shot anywhere near where you put it (half a second before Zapruder started filming).

Tina Towner put it later (4-6 seconds after she stopped filming according to her 1996 oral history at Sixth Floor Museum). Hugh Betzner put it later (after z186). Robert Croft put it later (after z161). Occupants of the VP car put it later (just completed the turn). Connally put it later (150-200 feet after the corner).  Mary Woodward put it later (after JFK's last right turn, wave after he passed by where she stood). Occupants of the VP Security car put it later (almost completed the turn). Greer put it later (when they were passing the west edge of the TSBD). Billy Clay, Jean Newman, Georgia Hendrix, Sue Dickerson, Peggy Hawkins, said the President had just passed them when the first shot occurred.  Karan Hicks said :The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion."   

How could all these witnesses independently recall a first shot 4-5 seconds later than you suggest and all be so wrong and yet not a single witness put it anywhere near where you suggest?

  Bump regarding the Towner 1st shot claim. The Towner " 4-6 seconds" after she Stopped Filming totally destroys a very early 1st shot. She clearly was still filming when the JFK Limo was (W) of the sidewalk/Tall Monument.