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21
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: "Overthinking" (or maybe not?) the Walker attempt
« Last post by Charles Collins on Today at 01:39:16 AM »
Quote from: John Corbett on Yesterday at 10:29:13 PM
I'm not a hunter at all. I shoot paper targets. Living in a rural area I have learned a little about deer hunting. Ohio does not allow deer hunting with rifles other than muzzle loaders which have their own season which greatly reduces the number of hunters in the field. Ohio deer hunters shoot deer with deer slugs fired from shotguns. We have bow hunters too but they share the primitive weapons season with the muzzle loaders.

A deer hunter will wait for an optimal shot because he knows he has to score a hit with the first shot because if he misses, the deer will be long gone before he ever gets off a second shot.

Having his intended target take off if he missed his first shot was of less concern to Oswald than to a deer hunter. Ideally, that's what should have happened but Greer was slow to react. Apparently, Oswald decided like the hockey players, the more shots he took, the more likelihood he would score a fatal hit. He had chambered his fourth and final round before deciding it wasn't necessary.

It was Oswald's decision to make and there's no reason to think he would have made the same decision as you. Since he succeeded, I see no point in second guessing his choice.



I believe LHO was smart enough not to intentionally tale such a poor shot that was likely to miss by such an extremely large margin. Especially when he had apparently intentionally set up a much better and stable set of shots that he knew he would have in just a few seconds. Same as any competent deer hunter.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: William Niedernut and Low Follies at Education Forum-JFKA
« Last post by Benjamin Cole on Today at 01:31:29 AM »
MTG:

Verily, Mossad perped the JFKA. Even Jeff Morley dog-whistled as much of Tucker Carlson's show.

Something ugly is happening on America's left-wing. You see Hasan Piker. The justifications for murdering healthcare industry executives, or Charlie Kirk.

The IRGC gets a pass; no one cares about 40k slaughtered in the streets of Iran.

The exoneration and valorization of Sirhan Sirhan, and the accusations against Mossad, in the RFKA and JFKA.

Caveat emptor, and draw your own conclusions.



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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: William Niedernut and Low Follies at Education Forum-JFKA
« Last post by Benjamin Cole on Today at 01:25:07 AM »
The problem with both Zartman and Niedernut is they think (or thought) they were there to be Truth Police at the EF-JFKA. And they knew The Truth. Niedernut also had an insufferable personality.

Zartman actually posted on EF-JFKA that he thought LNT'ers should be banned from the EF-JFKA, and then he later became a moderator. In other words, the EF-JFKA was not a debate forum, but a CT cocoon.

I suppose it does not matter much; the readership of the EF-JFKA must be in the dozens, in a nation of 330 million. Simkin says he spends 10 hours a day writing history tomes. For who? Not the EF-JFKA, which Simkin says is a disappointment to him, due to all the insults that go on.

It looks like the EF-JFKA will continue to peter out; perhaps Niedernut's moderation will ultimately prove lethal, in combination with Simkin's senescence.

I invite EF-JFKA'ers to join this forum and at least try to have collegial conversations.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: CTers: Do yourself a favor and focus on plausibility
« Last post by Michael T. Griffith on Today at 01:22:27 AM »
Given that surveys have repeatedly shown that only 1/4 to 1/3 of the Western world believes the lone-gunman theory, you and your fellow WC apologists are the ones who need to focus on plausibility.

I find it so curious that you guys talk like you represent the mainstream, the majority, and that those who posit a conspiracy in the case are a fringe minority, when in fact your view is rejected by 2/3 to 3/4 of the Western world, when we now know that even three members of the WC did not buy the Commission's story, and when the last official U.S. Government investigation--the HSCA--concluded that the WC failed to follow up on evidence that indicated conspiracy, that two gunmen were involved, that four shots were fired, that one of the shots came from the grassy knoll, that Silvia Odio's account of an anti-Castro Cuban trying to frame Oswald for the assassination weeks before the event was credible, that Ruby had significant Mafia ties, that Ruby lied about how he entered the police basement to shoot Oswald, that Ruby lied about why he shot Oswald, etc., etc.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: William Niedernut and Low Follies at Education Forum-JFKA
« Last post by Michael T. Griffith on Today at 01:16:10 AM »
Quote from: Fred Litwin on Yesterday at 10:23:33 PM
Zartman suspended me for just replying to one of his emails, saying that I was arguing. He always goes after me on the forum.

That's pathetic. You're always a gentleman, Fred.

For everyone's information, in a current email chain initiated and moderated by John K. Hofeling that includes many JFKA conspiracy theorists, two people have chimed in that they agree with James Fetzer's obscene claim that Israel and America are the two biggest threats to democracy, that Russia and Iran are good countries, and that Iran is setting a better example than America is setting.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: William Niedernut and Low Follies at Education Forum-JFKA
« Last post by Benjamin Cole on Today at 01:07:53 AM »
LP:

Amen, Duncan MacRae should moderate a combined JFK-EF-JFKA forum.

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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: What about that dent?
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 12:52:27 AM »
Quote from: Lance Payette on Yesterday at 06:28:48 PM
One might also add - so I will! - that explaining CE 543 as a dry-firing shell is the explanation most in accord with Occam's Razor. MTG consistently violates Occam's Razor to an almost unbelievable degree. Given two possible explanations, MTG always opts for the most complex, conspiratorially-oriented. and frankly least believable one. ALWAYS. This is precisely why I started my thread encouraging CTers to focus on plausibility. CTers like MTG are embarrassments to rational thought and analysis.

Here is the AI response to the dented shell:

How Warren Commission Exhibit CE543 Got Dented

Commission Exhibit 543 (CE 543) was one of three spent 6.5 mm Mannlicher-Carcano cartridge cases found in the “sniper’s nest” on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. It had a noticeable inward dent on the mouth (the open lip where the bullet had been seated) www.jfkassassinationforum.com.

Official and Expert Explanations
The Warren Commission’s own analysis, supported by FBI ballistic testing, concluded that all three cases (CE 543, 544, and 545) had been fired from the same rifle (CE 139) based on matching firing-pin, extractor, and bolt-face marks www.jfkassassinationforum.com.

The dent on CE 543 was examined by the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) Firearms Panel in the 1970s–1970s. They found that the dent was produced during ejection from the rifle, specifically from the rapid operation of the bolt/ejector mechanism, not before firing or from manufacturing/loading www.jfkassassinationforum.com.

The panel duplicated the dent in test firings with Oswald’s rifle, showing that one of four test cases produced a similar dent when the bolt was worked quickly. Microscopic comparison confirmed all three cases were fired in the CE 139 rifle, with no evidence of multiple chamberings or prior firings
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: U.S. And International Politics
« Last post by Zeon Mason on Today at 12:50:07 AM »
Quote from: Lance Payette on Yesterday at 12:05:51 AM
On one of my long commutes, the best radio reception was NPR. On another, it was conservative right-wing talk radio. It was only in retrospect that I realized how much a steady diet of one perspective had subtly colored my views. I used to religiously watch Chris Matthews on MSNBC followed by Bill O'Reilly on FOX to make sure I was getting balanced lunacy. Now I listen and watch almost nothing and generate my own lunacy, which is much healthier.

Good idea.  I will delete my previous I..I..I.. speech before anyone else sees it.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: CTers: Do yourself a favor and focus on plausibility
« Last post by Steve M. Galbraith on Today at 12:44:27 AM »
FYI, there were five executions done in Texas in 1964. All were black men and two did not involve murder.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_in_Texas,_1960%E2%80%931964#cite_note-5

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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: CTers: Do yourself a favor and focus on plausibility
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 12:28:55 AM »
Quote from: Lance Payette on Today at 12:09:55 AM
"What about Larry Hancock and John Newman?" screams the peanut gallery. "They know way more than you, bub."

Well, they know way more about some JFKA-related things, I'm sure. I think Newman and his crowd are driven by motives other than trying to solve the JFKA. There is no way the conspiracy they posit - whatever the hell it is - has any real-world plausibility. It's all dark intrigue and speculation, peppered with names and acronyms and documents until your eyes glaze over (or at least mine do). IMHO, they'll never connect it to Dealey Plaza.

Larry Hancock's work would fit into my category 4 and is certainly more plausible than Newman's. As with Newman, however, you are overwhelmed with names and acronyms and whatnot, and it's all just too elaborate for me to find it believable, nor have I seen anything convincingly tying Oswald into the plot.

I always remind myself and others that Newman is also the author of Quest for the Kingdom: The Secret Teachings of Jesus in the Light of Yogic Mysticism, a weird but undeniably scholarly book that I have never even seen mentioned in my vast Christian-oriented reading. Hancock is the author of Unidentified; The National Security Problem of UFOs, which I likewise have never even seen mentioned in my vast UFO-oriented reading. This is not to minimize their work - I found Newman's book fascinating - but just to emphasize that though they may seem to be "major figures" in the JFKA community they are pretty much fringe figures in other areas into which they have waded.

Just my $0.02 worth and where I would - and do - focus my attention if I were open to JFKA conspiracy theories.

P.S. - I'm not going to try to deal with John C.'s goofy formatting, but there were 46 executions between 1963 and 1967. WHAT THE HELL is the point, other than arguing for the sake of arguing? No one involved in the JFKA was thinking, "Hey, the way the law is trending we may only spend life in prison instead of being executed." What a weirdo.

Completely irrelevant. All of those executions were for murders committed prior to the JFKA and the condemned had run out their appeals process. Oswald would have had the same multi-layered appeals process available to him as the other murderers. For a comparison, the In Cold Blood murderers Perry Smith and Dick Hickock committed their gruesome murders in November of 1959 and weren't executed until April of 1965. A similar length appeals process for Oswald would have extended to 1969, when there was a moratorium on executions so Oswald would have still been on death row in 1972 when SCOTUS spared the life of all prisoners on death row and commuted their sentences to life in prison. It is extremely unlikely Oswald would have been executed had Jack Ruby not shot him.
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