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21
I've been intrigued by the idea that Oswald was trying to achieve two things with the first shot; Checking the scope, which he probably didn't trust, by aiming at a fixed object (possibly the manhole cover); and standing well back from the window.

By standing well back from the window the sound would be less obvious to people on the street, and would also create a sense of doubt or confusion when the next two shots came, as proved the case.

The lady "manning" the TSBD switchboard on the second floor testified that the first shot "sounded like a cannon and shook the west side of the building".

All speculation of course, but it could explain why many people missed the sound of the first shot.
22
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Am I Tripping?
« Last post by Dan O'meara on Today at 12:54:17 AM »
His account was deleted.

Unfortunately with this software, when an account is deleted the threads created by the deleted member are also deleted, including reply contributions by other members.

He was repeatedly bad mouthing the Forum and it's collective membership, so he had to go.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2006.msg54538.html#msg54538

Fair enough.
I thought I was having some kind of senior moment.
23
Dan:

It is understood amongst credible researchers that Lovelady & Shelley were gotten to lie and push back their departure time from the front steps to 3 minutes after the shots in order to make Victoria Adams look silly and to destroy her witnessing of Oswald not being on the Northwest steps when the official story needed him to be...There's some basic rules of evidence you are violating here...We can see Lovelady & Shelley fast-walking up the extension in Couch/Darnell so therefore visual film evidence trumps testimony and shows that Lovelady & Shelley left the steps around 20 seconds after the shots when they were inspired by Calvery to go up to the Knoll and see for themselves...You are violating the rules of evidence as well as rational thought because we can see Lovelady & Shelley going up the extension in Couch/Darnell and it tells us what the true version is...

Brian,

It is not understood amongst credible researchers that Shelley and Lovelady were made to lie about departure time from the steps.
Your notion that it was done to discredit Adams' testimony is truly ridiculous for a number of very basic, common sense reasons.

Your insistence that couch/Darnell shows Shelley and Lovelady is based on a single, doctored image.
There is no version of Couch or Darnell from which Shelley and Lovelady can be identified. If you believe there is then post it or cite it.
Show some actual evidence to back up your claims. That is all you are being asked to do.
Your credibility as a researcher hangs on the quality of the evidence you provide to support your claims.
You seem to imagine that you can just keep stating a thing and that makes it valid. This is clearly not the case.
Other than the doctored Sprague image, post another image from which we can identify Shelley and Lovelady.

OTHERWISE, JUST ADMIT THAT YOUR OPINION IS BASED SOLELY ON THE SPRAGUE IMAGE.

Quote
The version Bart Kamp used was the Sprague copy...Obviously Sprague used the best enhancement technology of his day which was probably limited to brightness and zoom...One thing is clear though, Sprague used the original celluloid films as his source, as is evidenced by the fact Kamp was able to get the best detail in his enhancements...That best source that Kamp accessed was able to produce the visible details seen on Lovelady & Shelley as well as Lovelady's bald spot...Lovelady's plaid pattern is a geometric match and matches his plaid shirt pattern precisely...That is a dead-lock that makes the sincerity of what you offer suspect...No serious researcher would doubt the men being Lovelady & Shelley at that point...

This thread is about the validity of the single image you base your incorrect opinion on.
ALL EVIDENCE relating to this issue, other than the doctored Sprague image, refutes the identification of Shelley and Lovelady on the extension..
Where does that leave your credibility as a researcher?

The Sprague image is incredibly dubious.
Kamp himself admits that the image contains very little information (it is an incredibly poor image) apart from the incredible detail of Lovelady's shirt and bald patch!!
How is that possible
The Prayer Man cult was founded on the dubious manipulation of photographic images and if you have a look at what Kamp is doing with AI recently...

It is physically impossible for Shelley and Lovelady to have been that far down the extension within 20 seconds if they had an interaction with Gloria on the steps.
To suggest otherwise lacks credibility and requires a heavy dose of gullibility.

24
It seems Amos Euins was either mistaken or lying in "The Lost Bullet" when he said he crouched behind the pillar that we now know Toni Glover was standing on when the presidential limousine passed by.

It turns out that he was sitting on the pillar opposite Toni's (Howard Brennan was sitting on the curved wall between them).

To see for yourself, go to the 00:37 mark in the Mark Bell film, and look at Z-170 and Z-176 (in which it can be seen that the kid I'm talking about is a Black kid, and he's wearing his light-colored jacket and sitting on the wall directly above Robert Croft.

MARK BELL FILM
 



ZAPRUDER FILM

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z176.jpg



25
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 11:53:24 PM »
He says he heard a noise and immediately looked and at that exact time “saw a shot that hit”. He does not describe any time between the noise and seeing the shot. And he mentions a second shot striking the head. At best it is ambiguous. The real problem is that the WC did not examine him to clarify what he meant. Most described the last two being close, not the first two.

Why do you have so much trouble comprehending the simplest things. Bennett was not looking at JFK when he heard the first shot. I don't care how quickly he turned his head, it is not possible he could have turned quickly enough to see that shot hit JFK's right shoulder. He clearly is describing seeing the SECOND shot hit JFK's shoulder. If you can't figure that out, why do you waste your time and ours with your silly theories?

Have you ever asked yourself one simple question? With the millions of people who have studied the evidence from the JFKA the last six decades, do you really think you are the only one who has been able to figure out the right answer? I have never come across anyone who has reached anything close the scenario you have dreamed up.

You and Ben Cole should get together. You both think you have come up with the solution to the JFKA that has eluded everybody else and both are nuttier than a fruitcake.
26
Why do people waste time pondering silly scenarios?

They can't help it.

When it comes to the anomaly-replete JFK assassination, their paranoiac anti-"Deep State" / anti-"National Security State" / anti-"Administrative State" psyches demand it.
27
Royell Storing had suggested  a 2nd shooter on the roof top of the adjacent garage attached to the TSBD on the west side. It’s crazy but what if a gunman was there behind that sign stuck out above the big gates as Royell speculated?

Would that trajectory align better with the JFK back to throat wound angle? Or wound that be less probable than the TSBD trajectory line for a Z223 shot?

See I’m still having trouble aligning that 6th floor TSBD angle at Z223 with JFKs back and throat wound angle because although Myers computer model seems to show it works their experiment they did with actual firing thru the 2 Torso models , bullet excited BELOW the throat level.  ???

So I’m wondering if that 2nd story level location above the big gates is a better matching angle in the vertical plane. Or is the angle in the horizontal plane too far to the right of JFK to align in that plane?

Why do people waste time pondering silly scenarios?
28
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Toni Glover
« Last post by Tom Graves on Yesterday at 11:27:35 PM »
You obviously have Never watched "The Lost Bullet" (2011). In that National Geographic sponsored presentation, an adult Amos Euins stand directly next to the pedestal that Toni Glover and her Mom stood atop. Euins demonstrates how he hid behind that same pedestal immediately after witnessing shots being fired from the TSBD sniper's nest. This is NOT the same pedestal, behind Croft, or even close to the same area that you are referring to. That kid sitting on the other end of the wall, behind Croft, is Not Amos Euins.

Dear Storm Trooper Storing,

I've watched "The Lost Bullet" more times than I can shake a stick at.

It's now apparent that in it, Euins was either mistaken or lying to Max Holland as to where, exactly, he was right before Oswald fired his first, missing-everything, shot at "Z-124," half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133.

We can see that Euins is sitting on the opposite pillar from Toni Glover's in the Zapruder and Bell films, and that Howard Brennan is sitting on the wall between them.

it's obvious that he had an excellent view of the Sniper's Nest window.

In Z-170 and Z-176, his (Black) head and light-colored jacket are visible directly above Robert Croft and the foliage of the tree/bush.

Let this be a lesson to you about the so called "reliability" of eyewitnesses' statements, especially when they're made forty-eight years after the fact, Storm Trooper Storing.

-- Tom

PS Or would you prefer it's just another case of "Deep State" / "National Security State" / "Administrative State" film alteration?

LOL!

29
Royell Storing had suggested  a 2nd shooter on the roof top of the adjacent garage attached to the TSBD on the west side. It’s crazy but what if a gunman was there behind that sign stuck out above the big gates as Royell speculated?

Would that trajectory align better with the JFK back to throat wound angle? Or wound that be less probable than the TSBD trajectory line for a Z223 shot?

See I’m still having trouble aligning that 6th floor TSBD angle at Z223 with JFKs back and throat wound angle because although Myers computer model seems to show it works their experiment they did with actual firing thru the 2 Torso models , bullet excited BELOW the throat level.  ???

So I’m wondering if that 2nd story level location above the big gates is a better matching angle in the vertical plane. Or is the angle in the horizontal plane too far to the right of JFK to align in that plane?


30
Don't worry Royell...We have the pro-active Jim DiEugenio who will use his access to the Task Force to convince them the 6th Floor Museum version is the best existing version and needs to be obtained using the Task Force's power...

We've got The Education Forum on it...

And, no, Jim D isn't a skunk who is avoiding it because he knows the 6th Floor Museum copy proves Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...

   "Task Force"? I am beginning to understand why the Ed Forum collapsed. Just when is this Task Force gonna "Storm The Bastille"? 
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