JFK Assassination Forum

By no means did 75% of the ear witnesses who reported on the spacing of the shots say the last two shots were 1-2 seconds apart. Most did not put a time on the spacing of the last two shots. Many just described the last two as being noticeably closer together than the first two. Most described a pause after the first shot and then two rapid shots. Several said the last two were about two seconds apart (e.g. Robert Jackson: “I guess, two seconds” ; Roger Craig: “no more than two seconds”). Allan Sweatt thought there were 7 seconds between the first and second and 2-3 seconds after that was the third shot.

Okay, let’s say it could be 2-3 secs. If so then Dans 1st shot Z224, 2nd at Z313 and 3rd at 2-3 secs after that is not so implausible since it’s clear that the 6th floor TSBD shooter was either  stupid or was trying to set up Oswald.

1. He chose to shoot at a moving target from 6th floor TSBD. He could have chosen an easier place to shoot at a stationary JFK giving a speech from a much lower elevation thus eliminating changing angles and necessity to constantly be adjusting to track the target. It would have been a much easier one shot one kill.
2. He stuck his rifle out the window for several seconds after firing the 3rd shot. It was spotted by Malcom Couch and Robert  Jackson as much as 5 secs after they heard the last shot.
3. He left 3 shells at the window
4. He may have left a paper bag with Oswald’s palm print on it.
5. He moved several boxes up next to the window which had Oswald prints on them.
3. He left an MC rifle linked to Oswald’s P.O.Box on the 6th floor not really hidden so well.
4. He had to either run down 4 flights of stairs or had to use the west freight elevator to go down to the 2nd floor landing. He could not go all the way down to 1st floor because he would have been seen by Adams, Stiles, Lovelady and Shelley ( the 2 men Baker saw) as he exited the elevator

If he took the west elevator down to 2nd floor landing, thus bypassing Mrs Garner on 4th floor unseen, and he exited from the 2nd floor west window onto the garage rooftop to escape then he was a conspirator who had planned to set to Oswald. Thus all the stupid decisions were required to set up Oswald.

If he took the west elevator to the 2nd floor landing thus bypassing Mrs Garner unseen, and he exited and ran into the 2nd floor lunchroom then he was Oswald and the stupid decisions were because Oswald was a stupid Marxist Kook.

In Either scenario, a 3rd shot fired after Z313 is plausible.

Who watches the evening news? To get viewers, they cover human interest stories.  You said they didn’t cover the Bolton story and, instead of admitting that you were wrong, you double down and change the narrative. Kind of like how you approach the SBT when confronted with the evidence.

Lots of people still get their news the old fashioned way. Because there is a limited window of time, the network news programs have to make editorial decisions about what they think is important. They made the decision that reporting on giraffes and grizzly bears was more important than reporting a negative story about a Trump hater. Gee, I wonder why.

So a 2nd shooter on the garage roof over the gate and just behind this sign fired one additional shot that was not heard? He must have fired the Z313 shot because he had a better quality rifle with a correctly zeroed scope and his plan was one shot one kill.

But this cannot be right because 3/4ths witness heard 3 shots with the last 2 very close together. And Harold Norman heard 3 shots from above him.

So this 2nd shooter must have been almost as stupid as the 6th floor TSBD patsy shooter since he didn’t use a suppressor and fire a subsonic round. He just figured one shot from his typical loud sounding rifle would  be heard from slightly different direction and then he would quickly escape unseen from the garage roof by … ( this part must be completed by Royell Storing)   

Did you happen to see the caption that said CBS News 24/7? That story is on their streaming service. It was not part of their evening newscast. But the giraffe and the grizzly bear were considered to be newsworthy stories.

Who watches the evening news? To get viewers, they cover human interest stories.  You said they didn’t cover the Bolton story and, instead of admitting that you were wrong, you double down and change the narrative. Kind of like how you approach the SBT when confronted with the evidence.

Aside from Royell now thinking JFK was gagging on a bullet stuck in his throat like a recalcitrant meatball - which was of course entirely predictable from Team Royell - I am still somewhat lost as to what all this has to do with anything.

Nellie Connally, whom most folks here seem convinced was a hallucinatory housewife unworthy of being taken seriously, told CBS "The first sound, the first shot, I heard, and turned and looked right into the President's face. He was clutching his throat, and just slumped down. He just had a look of nothingness on his face." At the WC, she said JFK "reached up to his throat," "had both hands on his throat," and "it seemed to me there was - he made no utterance, no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down." Apart from whether JFK was actually clutching his throat, Nellie's observations seem hard to square with gagging and wiping blood.

In my extensive research of this issue  , I did discover that Josiah Thompson and Pat Speer were in agreement way back in 2010 that the Thorburn reflex argument had been a "dead puppy" (Tink's phrase) for years and had been invented by Medical Quack Lattimer and promoted by Lying Fiend Posner to prop up the SBT and disguise the fact that JFK and JBC were hit by different shots. Here is what most folks seem to regard as the definitive refutation of the Thorburn argument: http://www.assassinationweb.com/milam-thor.htm. Based on this, Dr. Payette revises his opinion to "I have no clue and don't really care. What's for lunch?"

It is interesting how consistently - and I mean CONSISTENTLY - the phrase "clutching his throat" is used in reference to JFK and specifically Altgens6 as though it were mandatory. However, at the Ed Forum there were those who pointed out that JFK is not really "clutching" his throat.

Dr. Payette still maintains - while eschewing the term "opinion" - that what we see is in fact a reflex. James Gordon - remember him? - made the following point along the same lines in 2012. He suggested that while what we see may not in fact be exactly a Thorburn reaction, it is a reflex from nerve damage:

I thought I made it clear that the “Thorburn Reflex” was not necessarily my position. I certainly intended to make that clear. Having said that, what is described as this “Reflex” perfectly reflects what we see JFK doing with his arms.

The main point of my previous post was that the strange event of JFK’s arms were a direct consequence of the nerve damage when C7 was struck by the bullet. As I have pointed out the damage to that muscle is so extensive it was bound to have a consequence on the nerve structure attached to these muscle and the spinal cord directly behind the muscles. The reason I raised “Thorburn’s Reflex” was because that state suggests that once enacted it is difficult move the arms. The nerves that cause this don’t allow it. In the image below I have taken a series of frames to illustrate this point. Even with Jackie attempting to move the left arm it will not move. It is only when the head shot takes place, which destroys the entire nerve system, that the arms relax.

What I am trying to point out is that the impact with C7 did not just damage that Transverse Process, it also severely damaged the Intervertebral Disc C06 C07. And that damage had a major impact on the Cervical Nerves. It is that damage that caused the arms to rise and lock. They were only released when the entire nervous system was destroyed or severely damaged by the head shot.

The frames that James references are Z249, 273, 277, 308, 316. His post is here: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=post;quote=181318;topic=5057.21.

Why is it necessary to think Nellie was hallucinating to determine that she didn't perceive the event accurately? The shooting caught everyone by surprised and three shots were fired in less than 9 seconds, her husband was seriously wounded and the President was murdered in that short span of time. It must have been a bewildering experience. Frankly, it would be amazing if she was able to coolly recall what happened and the order in which things occurred. I would think it would be a blur to her.