JFK Assassination Forum

Whenever one starts with a faulty premise, a faulty conclusion is inevitable, so this exercise seems pointless to me.

That's because you know virtually nothing about the KGB* other than what false defectors, Kremlin-loyal double and triple agents, "moles," and "useful idiot" former CIA officers and espionage writers have told you to believe, and you resist learning the truth about it because you know deep down in your little 'ol cotton-pickin' heart that "former" KGB counterintelligence officer Vladimir Putin installed your fascistic con artist hero, The Traitorous Orange Turd, as our "President" on 20 January 2017.

*Today's SVR and FSB

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362

A reasonable unbiased person looking objectively at the evidence realizes that the evidence against Oswald is very strong. It is really overwhelming.  There is also strong evidence that three shots were fired from the SN.  Several witnesses saw the rifle in the SN and three men on the floor below heard the three shots from above them. So it is easy to conclude from the evidence that Oswald was the sole assassin.

The problem is trying to reconcile the Zfilm with three shots from a bolt action rifle. Without the Zfilm there would likely not have been a need to invent the SBT.

LNs have been persuaded that Connally was reacting to being shot in the torso by z230.  I don’t know why that is.

When I first studied the issue I read the evidence of Connally and tried to match his evidence to the zfilm.  I had no difficulty seeing that, according to Connally’s evidence, JBC was reacting to the first shot at z230 by turning around just as he said he did after hearing the shot and realizing that an assassination was unfolding.  Further reading of the evidence of witnesses who described the shot spacing made it abundantly clear that there was only one shot by z230; that the second shot which was closer to z313 than to the first.  Then the zfilm started to make sense.

So after the midpoint between the first and last shots is where the evidence says to look for an indication of the second shot hitting JBC in the torso. The motion of JBC beginning at about z271-272 and immediately falling back as Greer turns around fits the evidence perfectly. The hair on the right side of JFK’s head flying up at z273 fits what George Hickey saw at the time he heard the second shot. There are several other indications all pointing to JBC being hit in those frames.

But it is hard to see if you are not willing to even consider it.

Hey, believe it not, I’m still considering it because I just cannot dismiss a supermajority of witness on the 1… 2..3 pattern and I really don’t see the shooter misfiring the 1st shot accidentally or haphazardly aiming because he was excited.

Yours is the only alternative LN theory so no harm testing it out some more. It would be nice though if a computer AI could be used.

I have an alternative about how  JC was sitting in the jump seat which is an adjustment to  that diagram that John Mytton posted earlier in this thread.

My premise is that because JC probably had some respect for that expensive Stetson hat that he would NOT have held the hat upside down if he could more comfortably hold it right side up resting on top of his right leg since he was holding it with his right hand.

It appears on the Z film from Z133-Z190 that JC was maintaining a 45 degree turned right angle of his upper body and looking at the crowd to the right side of limo the whole way.

Therefore i think the most comfortable position would be that JC was sitting on the jump seat with both his legs turned 45 degrees rightward so that he could maintain that 45 degree upper body position without having to twist his torso. And I doubt he would have had half his buttocks off the left side of the seat as in JohnMs diagram. Nor imo would he hold his hat upside over the left side of his left leg because he would have to keep his arm stretched diagonally across his chest to do so. I see no indication his right arm is diagonally across his chest from Z133-Z200, so JohnM diagram is improbable.

Its clear that JC was holding the hat with his right hand palm touching the bottom side of the rim of the hat with his fingers partly in the well of the hat when he suddenly raised the hat up to his chest.

So if both his legs were turned right, the easiest way to rest the hat upright on top of his right leg would be that his right hand was turned palm upwards.

This position rules out a Z224 shot having entered the top of JC’s hand and exiting from the palm because his hand would be palm side up if he held  the hat right side up.

This alternative simplifies  the Z190 shot 1st because now the shot just goes past JC without hitting his thigh, thus apparent absence of physical reaction by JC to being hit by a bullet is no longer an issue.
That bullet exiting JFK slowed down to 1500 ff/sec likely goes  into the middle lower part of the front seat cushion and could have stopped there or if it continued thru, it gets embedded in the lower dashboard. That could be CE 399 which fell out and was found in the limo later or it’s the “lost “ bullet.

The Z270 shot could also be the CE 399 shot because that’s when JC had raised his hat up against or close to his chest and his right hand is rotated with the palm facing away from his chest as the well of the hat is visible.

The Z270 bullet skews thru JCs chest , deflects to exit into his right hand (nose first ) , goes thru the wrist and then maybe it’s still in line to hit JCs inner left thigh ( turned right rather than left) and stop there. Thus it’s basically the same as the SBT, just at a different time and angle.

So if you are able to figure out the angle of the shot going thru JC at Z270 then maybe you can determine if it’s plausible or not that the bullet could go thru JCs wrist where he had his hand up at Z 270 , exit thru his lower palm and continue on to hit his inner left thigh.

Spare me.

Trump does more before 10:00 am then [sic] Biden could do in a whole day. The guy has already engaged more with the media in 14 months that Biden ever did. Biden turned the presidency into a part time job. He was nothing but a figurehead that they would take out of hiding to do photo ops or read from a teleprompter. I don't know who was calling the shots from 2021 to 2025 but it sure as hell wasn't President Autopen.

Yes!

It's absolutely amazing how many scams he and his corrupt family have going!

I will pick on John one more time just for fun.

I've previously stated on other threads that John's posts often remind me of my extensive interactions with internet atheists who haunt religion forums.

The ploy of internet atheists is that religious believers are victims of their confirmation biases - indeed, that religious belief is just one big delusion driven by confirmation biases - but that atheists are entirely rational, evidence-driven, critical thinkers, free of any and all confirmation biases.

"My only confirmation bias is toward the truth" could be right out of the mouth of an internet atheist. It is impossible to have a rational discussion with these folks - and all other species of debunkers across all the areas of weirdness in which I have been involved - because evidence simply isn't evidence at all (or at least isn't "credible" or "extraordinary") unless these folks decide it is (and they never do). They get to determine the standard, you see, because they are entirely rational, evidence-driven, critical thinkers while you are hopelessly in the grip of your confirmation biases and wishful thinking.

This is, of course, absurd. Atheists typically are drowning in confirmation biases, at least to the extent of the typical believer. It's their refusal to acknowledge this that stifles discussion. A believer who says "damn right I'd like there to be a benevolent deity and a blissful afterlife" - i.e., who is aware of his own confirmation biases - is far ahead of an atheist or other species of debunker who deludes himself that he doesn't have any such biases.

Thomas Nagel is both a very serious philosopher and an atheist (author of the groundbreaking epistemological paper "What is it like to be a bat?"). He famously admitted his confirmation biases:

"I am talking about something much deeper—namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn't just that I don't believe in God and, naturally, hope that I'm right in my belief. It's that I hope there is no God! I don't want there to be a God; I don't want the universe to be like that. My guess is that this cosmic authority problem is not a rare condition and that it is responsible for much of the scientism and reductionism of our time."

One of my pet subjects, as you can tell. I am reminded of my debates with internet atheists - which I enjoyed, up to a point - every time I read John's cocksure posts.

(You folks need a break. Here is "What is it like to be a bat?" - https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Nagel_Bat.pdf)

There is a fundamental difference between the question of the existence of a Supreme Being and the question of Oswald's innocence. One is knowable and one is not. I very much agree with Carl Sagan's observation that both believers and atheists exhibit a certainty about their positions that science does not support. He once said, I don't want to believe, I want to know. That pretty much sums up my outlook.

I don't believe Oswald was the assassin. I know Oswald was the assassin and I am not going to feign open mindedness on that question. I will leave the door open a crack for those who want to claim he was part of a conspiracy. Those who believe that need to lay their cards on the table. Show us evidence that he had accomplices. But there is zero doubt Oswald was the triggerman. Any other explanation flies in the face of a wealth of evidence.

He can resign before the dementia gets worse and he starts wandering off like Biden.

Spare me.

Trump does more before 10:00 am then Biden could do in a whole day. The guy has already engaged more with the media in 14 months that Biden ever did. Biden turned the presidency into a part time job. He was nothing but a figurehead that they would take out of hiding to do photo ops or read from a teleprompter. I don't know who was calling the shots from 2021 to 2025 but it sure as hell wasn't President Autopen.