JFK Assassination Forum

A dent could not have come from ejecting a shell or just landing on the ground. shell brass is tough: it had to be made by someone to hold wadding for a blank round.

The reenactment film made the same mistake you did with your sketch. It has JFK too far to the left. JFK had his elbow resting on he side of the car. The reenactor has his arm entirely inside the car. There is no question Oswald missed JFK by a significant amount but given he inherent difficulty of he shot, it certainly is not an unreasonable miss.

The JFK stand-in is sitting in a regular Lincoln convertible:



so the dimensions, width-wise, should be fairly close.  The stand-in does not have his elbow on top of the side of the car, but if he did his right rib-cage could move over another arm-width or about  4 inches.  But JFK did not have his rib-cage pressed against the side of the car. His arm extended out from the shoulder to the top of the side of the car on Elm St. This photo from Main St. shows him leaning as far right as possible and that is consistent him being about 4 inches farther right:
 


A 4 inch difference isn't going to make much difference - still a pretty big miss:

I don’t think that there is any mystery to it Jack. Here’s another AI response:

The Ejection Impact PointsWhen you cycle the action too fast, the physics of the Carcano system cause distinct contact points:The Locking Abutment / Inside Wall: As the case mouth clears the chamber, the fixed ejector violently kicks the base of the brass to the right. If the bolt velocity is high, the pivoting case mouth swings outward so fast that it slaps the inside right wall of the receiver before it can fully clear the action.The Rear Receiver Bridge: Because the cartridge is simultaneously moving backward with the bolt, a rapid cycle can fling the spinning case neck directly into the forward edge of the rear receiver split/bridge (the solid metal loop housing the bolt handle when locked).Optics Mounts: If your Carcano is a modified or scoped sporter model, a fast ejection will frequently slam the case neck into the underside of the scope base or the windage turret.


The two cartridges in question look very similar to me based on the photos I have seen. But if you are right and the dents are drastically different, then the two different potential impact points might explain the differences. In the image below I have drawn an arrow to the rear receiver bridge area. There is an empty cartridge shown flying above the action after turning end for end about 90-degrees. In the case where the bolt is pulled back extremely fast, the cartridge would spin end for end much faster and such that the neck impacts the rear receiver bridge area before it clears the receiver area. For me, that might explain the dent in CE 543.

JN: The HSCA dent was in at the top and downward in appearance

COPILOT: You’re describing the geometry exactly right, and this is the key point most summaries gloss over:

The HSCA test‑fired dent was “in at the top” and sloped downward — a downward‑angled inward crush — whereas CE 543’s dent is a compound deformation with an inward dimple and an outward flare.

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If the bolt velocity is high, the pivoting case mouth swings outward so fast that it slaps the inside right wall of the receiver

No, There is no inside right wall to be slapped against. The right receiver is below the level of the shell casing. In the picture, you are looking at the inside wall of the left receiver wall, not the outside of the right wall.

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The Rear Receiver Bridge: Because the cartridge is simultaneously moving backward with the bolt, a rapid cycle can fling the spinning case neck directly into the forward edge of the rear receiver split/bridge (the solid metal loop housing the bolt handle when locked)

It is not even remotely possible for the mouth of the shell casing to hit the rear receiver bridge.

You lie. Bennett clearly states he was looking at the crowd to the right of the limo when he HEARD the first shot. He then turned toward JFK in time to see the SECOND shot hit JFK. He then saw the third shot hit JFK in the head. That makes three shots. 

Brehm can still be seen clapping after JFK had been hit by the SECOND shot. That's some witness.
You're making excuses to dismiss all of these three witnesses who were closer to the gunman than anyone in Dealey Plaza and all of whom testified they heard three shots.
Your lies don't bother me at all.

Glenn Bennett: We made a left hand turn and then a quick right. The President's auto moved down a slight grade and the crowd was very sparse. At this point I heard a noise that immediately reminded me of a firecracker. I immediately, upon hearing the supposed firecracker, looked at the boss's car. At this exact time I saw a shot that hit the boss about 4 inches down from the right shoulder. A second shoot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the boss's head.

In what world does his handwritten two shot statement translate into an early missed shot
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Brehm 11/22 Dallas Herald

The witness Brehm was shaking uncontrollably as he further described the shooting. "The first shot must not have been too solid, because he just slumped. Then on the second shot he seemed to fall back." Brehm seemed to think the shots came from in front of or beside the President. He explained the President did not slump forward as if he would have after being shot from the rear. The book depository building stands in the rear of the President's location at the time of the shooting.

Another two shot witness. First shot and JFK slumped.
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If only there was a witness or evidence of some kind to an early missed shot.

You are unserious, a borderline troll. I notice that, yet again, you declined to address a single fact that I presented.

Of course, I don't blame you for not attempting to address the facts, since you've usually gotten your clock cleaned when you've done so.

Apparently I am living in your head, and rent free at that.

MTG cuts me to the quick (where is my quick anyway?). I am an exceedingly serious, well-over-the-borderline troll and proud of it.

The problem in dealing with cranks like MTG is that it's essentially hopeless. I will spend the time to bust an occasional MTG-type factoid when it interests me, but I recognize I'm just amusing myself. Cranks like MTG will be repeating the factoid the next day and the day after that. There is something seriously wrong with the thought processes of these people. If you take MTG seriously, there is something seriously wrong with you. Seriously wrong.

Let's just take the factoid with which MTG closes one of his posts above, to wit:

BTW, Oswald's former landlady in New Orleans, Mrs. Jesse Garner, told HSCA investigators that Ferrie visited her home shortly after the assassination and asked about Oswald's library card. Of course, the answer from WC defenders is that Mrs. Garner must have been "mistaken" or "fabricating."

Uh, not exactly - and there is no real mystery. Bannister buddy Jack Martin, who hated Ferrie, started a rumor that Ferrie's library card had been found on Oswald when he was arrested. Understandably, this sent Ferrie into a bit of a panic. On November 23, the day after the assassination, the Times Picayune ran a story about Oswald that had numerous quotations from two neighbors who had lived on either side of him on Magazine Street, including Mrs. Garner. Ferrie, as part of his effort to determine what the heck this library card story was all about, visited both of these neighbors - apparently on November 26. Fred Litwin goes into all this in considerable detail at his site, https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-david-ferrie-s-library-card. There is no suggestion that Mrs. Garner was fabricating.

Mrs. Garner was interviewed by the New Orleans Police Department, the FBI, the Secret Service and the Warren Commission in 1963-64. Oddly, she said nothing about any visit by Ferrie. In 1969, at the Shaw trial, she identified Ferrie as having visited her home either the evening of the JFKA or the next evening. She said nothing about any library card, although hearsay objections prohibited her from testifying as to what Ferrie had said. When interviewed by an HSCA investigator in 1978, she now said it was the very night of the assassination at 10:30 or 11 PM. When she testified to the HSCA, it was now 9 PM on the night of the JFKA.

The HSCA was skeptical of Mrs. Garner's timing of the visit. The night of the JFKA was before Martin had even started his rumor. Moreover, Ferrie, Beauboeuf and Coffey said that on the night of the JFKA they ate dinner in Kenner from 7-9 PM, then left for Houston. This dovetails with an arrival in Houston at 4:30 AM, when they checked in. The other neighbor Ferrie had visited, Doris Eames, was clear that the visit was after the JFKA and identified the date as November 26.

So there is no big mystery. Ferrie did indeed visit these women in a panic over a Martin-fueled rumor that Oswald had been arrested with his library card. No one is suggesting that Mrs. Garner was fabricating. She was simply off on the date.

The proverbial much ado about nothing. No dark conspiratorial implications at all.

Will MTG go right on repeating this and 1000 other bogus factoids to promote his wacky ideas? But of course! Hey, if you're as nutty as he is, lap it up. If not, listen to us serious, non-borderline trolls.