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11
I doubt that. They would be taking out sites holy to Islam and would kill many fellow muslims. When the US accidentally shot down an Iranian airliner during the tanker escort operation in the 1980s, Iran dod not retaliate via terrorism. They agreed to international mediation and agreed to compensation.

Iranian nukes would likely be used as a deterrent to Israeli aggression as well as aggression from Sunni Arab states. At least they enrich their own uranium, rather than stealing it from the US and leaving a toxic mess that US taxpayers are still paying to clean up.

If Iran was the big boogyman, why did Israel sell them F-14 parts when Iran held our embassy hostage. Why did Israel agree to provide weapons to Iran during Iran-Contra?

Iran just murdered approximately 40K of its own citizens.  I'm pretty sure most of those were Muslims.  They have no regard for human life.   A throwback to ancient barbarians.  Allowing them to obtain a nuclear weapon and hoping for the best is not an acceptable plan.
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On the Zionism post at the Ed Forum with which Ben started this thread, Greg Doudna said a very wise thing yesterday:

On antisemitism. It must be condemned and repudiated, no less than any toxic racism. Here is one sure “tell” of antisemitism, which I know a little about in my field. When one hears invocation of the Gospels’ anti-Jewish tropes. This is the terrible hidden secret and burden of Christianity, that its very Passion salvation foundation origin myth [that demonizes] Jews, is antisemitic, scapegoating Jews for killing God. If you see or hear that, even as allusion from otherwise secular people, then you can KNOW antisemitism is going on.

This "Jews killed Jesus" thing really is the root of antisemitism, as opposed to legitimate questioning of the policies and practices of the political state of Israel. The error in the opposite direction that we hear all the time is that the political state of Israel must receive blind, unwavering support because "the Jews are God's chosen people." (Even if they actually are, equating the Jews with the political state of Israel is a category mistake.)

As you may or may not know, the Second Temple and the city of Jerusalem were razed and the Jews were driven out and enslaved by the Romans in 70 AD as a result of the First Jewish Revolt that began in 66 AD and ended at Masada in 73. The four Gospels and Acts were all written after 70 AD, when being a Jew was a risky and dangerous thing to be. Conversely, being pro-Roman was an entirely unrisky and non-dangerous thing to be. Not unsurprisingly, the Gospels and Acts and even some of the epistles have a distinct pro-Roman and anti-Jewish slant, going so far as to portray Pilate (who was finally recalled by Rome because his cruelty threatened peace in the region) as not such a bad guy and really kind of a philosophical sort - and even putting anti-Jewish and pro-Roman statements into the mouth of Jesus. Historians are in pretty much unanimous agreement that the Romans would not have hesitated a moment to crucify Jesus (probably precipitated by his outburst in the Temple) and that there is no way the Jewish populace would have been screaming for his death (after supposedly welcoming him into the city with cries of "Hosanna!" days earlier). Some members of the Sanhedrin may have been complicit, but certainly not "the Jews."

In short, the whole "Jews killed Jesus" (or "Jews killed God") thing is, as Greg says, a myth that has haunted and demonized the Jews for 2,000 years. I have relatives who care less about Jesus than I care about Scientology but who nevertheless "hate the Jews" for this bogus reason as though "hating the Jews" were simply what all decent people should do. It's completely ridiculous.
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Humm, well, the previous supposedly definitive analysis of the timing of the Tippit shooting, i.e., Dale Myers' "stop-watch" analysis in his book With Malice, says that Oswald did not have time to walk to 10th and Patton in time to shoot Tippit and theorizes that Oswald got a ride from an unknown person. Myers says Tippit was shot at 1:14:30, but you say he was shot between 1:15 and 1:16.

Is there a reason you failed to mention that T. F. Bowley said he arrived at the Tippit scene at 1:10 and that he knew this because he checked his watch when he got there? That's an important fact to omit, wouldn't you say?

Is there a reason you failed to mention that Helen Markham said she got to the Tippit scene no later than 1:08 and that Tippit had already been shot when she arrived? This is why she was certain Tippit was shot at 1:06 or 1:07. Markham said she always left her apartment at 1:00 to catch her regular 1:12-1:15 bus. She said she glanced at the laundry room clock after she left her apartment and that it read 1:04. She said it took her about two minutes to reach 10th and Patton.

Is there a reason you failed to mention that Domingo Benavides said that he did not try to use the police car's radio until "a few minutes" after Tippit had been shot because he was (quite understandably) afraid for his life?

You guys claim that Benavides waited in his truck for only a matter of seconds and not for a few minutes. But this flies in the face of common sense and ignores what Benavides himself initially said. If you were only 25-50 feet away from a shooting and feared you could be the next target, how long would you wait until coming out into the open? Nobody in their right mind would have come out of hiding so quickly in that situation.

Benavides told the WC he waited in his truck for "a few minutes" after he heard the shots and before he tried to use the police car's radio. Moreover, according to fellow witness Ted Calloway, Benavides told him the day after the shooting that

When I heard that shooting, I fell down into the floorboard of my truck and I stayed there. It scared me to death.

Years later, Benavides changed his story and told CBS he only waited a few seconds, not a few minutes. Predictably, you guys choose to accept Benavides' belated change of story and reject his original statements.

Two witnesses at the Texas Theatre, Butch Borroughs and Jack Davis, independently said that Oswald entered the theater before 1:10, and that he remained in the theater until he was arrested.

You place great emphasis on the police dispatch transcripts, but even Dr. Paul Hoch, one of the most careful scholars in the JFKA research community, acknowledged there is evidence the police dispatch tapes were edited, which renders the transcripts useless for determining when Tippit was shot. BTW, Dr. Hoch doubted the authenticity of the transmissions that supposedly explain why Tippit was in Oak Cliff in the first place, far out of his area.

I discuss Dr. Hoch's research at length in my article "Did Oswald Shoot Tippit?," available at https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_j_022lJYli3B5Xyw8wLs-0nl6mDLo2t/view.

Is there a reason you failed to mention that Helen Markham said she got to the Tippit scene no later than 1:08 and that Tippit had already been shot when she arrived? This is why she was certain Tippit was shot at 1:06 or 1:07.

I don't think this is correct. When Markham arrived at the corner of 10th street and Patton she stopped to let a police car pass by. She then saw the officer call over his killer to the car window and had a conversation with him.
So, Tippit was not killed before Markham's arrival at the scene.

Is there a reason you failed to mention that Domingo Benavides said that he did not try to use the police car's radio until "a few minutes" after Tippit had been shot because he was (quite understandably) afraid for his life?

You guys claim that Benavides waited in his truck for only a matter of seconds and not for a few minutes. But this flies in the face of common sense and ignores what Benavides himself initially said. If you were only 25-50 feet away from a shooting and feared you could be the next target, how long would you wait until coming out into the open? Nobody in their right mind would have come out of hiding so quickly in that situation.


Benavides did indeed say he waited "a few minutes" but that can't be right, for one simple reason. Callaway, who wasn't far from the scene of the shooting, testified that he heard the shots and after watching the suspect come down the street ran to 10th street. The distance he needed to cover would have taken him approx a minute. So, if Benavides did indeed stay in his car for a few minutes, Callaway would have arrived at the scene before Benavides was able to get to the police car to use the radio.

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As astute readers will recall, in MTG's somewhat comical thread about "logic" and "critical thinking" in relation to the JFKA, Professor Payette noted at least two logical fallacies in MTG's original post: the ad populum (appeal to popularity) fallacy and the appeal to authority fallacy. These two are the lifeblood of MTG's thinking. This was not an inspiring start when your thread has "logic" and "critical thinking" in its very title.

Today we highlight the third leg of MTG's fallacious thinking.

Astute readers, and even complete dolts, cannot fail to notice how often - i.e., constantly - MTG employs absolutist terms such as "unsolvable," "undeniable" and "impossible." Scarcely a thread title or post of MTG's does not employ such absolutist terminology, which you "cannot refute."

This is called the absolutist language fallacy or sometimes the "black-and-white thinking" fallacy. When you add it into the mix with the appeal to popularity fallacy and appeal to authority fallacy, MTG's posts and indeed his thinking are pretty much One Big Fallacy.

The interesting part is that the psychological and sociological studies that Professor Payette often references have identified absolutist thinking and the use of absolutist language as among the hallmarks of the conspiracy-prone mindset:

"Study 2 introduced the concept of Socio-Cognitive Polarization (SCP) as a potential mediating factor. SCP encompasses xenophobia, absolutism, and conservatism—factors that have been increasingly recognized as relevant to the formation and maintenance of conspiracy beliefs (e.g., van Prooijen & van Vugt, 2018; Zmigrod et al., 2019)." Carola Salvi, Marta K. Mielicki, Alice Cancer, Paola Iannello, Tim George; "Exploring Meta-Reasoning Propositional Confidence in Conspiratorial Beliefs and Socio-Cognitive Polarization." Open Mind 2025; 9 1339–1362. doi: https://doi.org/10.1162/opmi.a.20

“Specifically, it has been shown that individuals with depression more frequently use a variety of terms that describe negative emotions, first-person pronouns (FPPs), common symptoms, and linguistic inquiry and word count (LIWC) categories deemed to correspond to ‘absolutist’ language.” The researchers then looked for what Cognitive Behavioural Therapists would label as “cognitive distortions’ in their speech in naturalistic conversations. Here they identified the overriding power of emotional reasoning (believing something is true because it feels true rather than because it logically makes sense)." Richard Bolstad, "Psychotherapy as Recovery from Conspiracy Theories," Transformations 2022, https://transformations.org.nz/conspiracy-therapy/

Keep this triad in mind as you giggle, titter, chortle and guffaw your way through MTG's work:
  • Appeal to popularity
  • Appeal to authority
  • Absolutist language
16

"probably too soon"???

Just how did you figure that one out.

JBC is seen starting his turn in reaction to the first shot at Z164. The second shot was fired at about Z219-220. That's 3 seconds after JBC reacted and the reaction was not immediate. If Zapruder's camera jiggle at Z155 was in reaction to the shot, it was fired in the Z147-148 time frame. That is based on the lag time of 7-8 frames between when the head shot was fired and Zapruder's reaction at Z318. That's about 4 seconds between the first and second shot. More than enough time to fire an aimed shot.

I’ll believe JBC’s interpretation of the Z film of being hit at 234 over yours. But thanks for sharing your opinion.
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Yes, you do, if you're being objective and credible, but apparently you can't bring yourself to do that on this issue, since it would mean admitting that some of the autopsy evidence was altered or faked.

Oh, please. I mean, come on. Aren't you embarrassed to float such a silly, obvious dodge? Every single expert who has examined the supposedly "original" brain photos has noted no damage to the rear part of the occipital lobes and only the very slightest damage to the cerebellum.

When the FPP confronted Humes, Finck, and Boswell with the absence of any damage to these areas in the brain photos that would be exxpected from an EOP-site bullet, when they were all viewing the photos together, the autopsy doctors could not explain it. Finck simply said, "I don't know. I cannot answer your question." Humes's only response was to offer the humorous, lame, and irrelevant point that the brain photos are not 3D, never mind that the photos show all sides of the brain, including the bottom. Boswell offered no response at all.

LOL! It seemed for a moment like you were allowing yourself to actually go where the evidence points regarding the entry site, but I see you've realized the impossible problems such an admission poses and so now you're waffling and pretending that it's no big deal because either entry site supposedly works.

No, either entry point is not compatible with a trajectory back to the sixth-floor window. Again, for the umpteenth time, the WC's experts could only get the EOP site to align with the sixth-floor window by assuming a forward lean of well over 50 degrees for JFK's head when the bullet hit. And, again, for the umpteenth time, Sturdivan can only get the EOP site's trajectory to "work" by assuming that the bullet came from the sixth-floor window, penetrated the skull at a 15-degree downward angle, but then somehow, someway suddenly veered sharply upward, never mind that not a single bullet in the WC's head-shot wound ballistics tests performed such an amazing feat, and never mind that Sturdivan could not cite a single case where an FMJ bullet, or any kind of bullet, has performed such a feat.

Moreover, as mentioned, the EOP site totally contradicts the brain photos and the WC's head-shot wound ballistics tests and cannot possibly explain the high fragment trail, which is why the autopsy doctors ignored it.

Also, neither the EOP site nor the cowlick site can explain the outer-table back-of-head fragments, which is why the FPP ignored the McDonnel fragment, nor can either wound site explain the 7x2 mm fragment in the right orbit (unless we assume that the autopsy report's low fragment trail was removed from the skull x-rays). 

BTW, are you ever going to explain why the low fragment trail does not appear on the skull x-rays? Where did it go?

You don't "know" any such thing, and you clearly cannot explain the unsolvable problems posed for your theory by the medical evidence. After saying you leaned toward the EOP site, now you're waffling and gasping that either entry site works, when your own beloved FPP noted that the brain photos demonstrably refute the EOP site (assuming the brain photos are authentic).

Are you ever going to explain how JFK's brain could have lost only "less than 1-2 ounces" of brain tissue given the accounts that record that pieces of JFK's brain were blown or dropped onto 16 surfaces, not counting the "rather large chunk of brain" that Jackie handed to Dr. Jenkins in the Parkland ER? No, of course not. And let's remember that Bugliosi's answer to the numerous credible accounts of a large amount of missing brain tissue was to cite Baden's disclosure that the brain photos show "less than 1-2 ounces" of missing tissue.

Can you name one qualified medical examiner who has seen the autopsy evidence who has concluded the photos are fraudulent?

I didn't think so.

As for whether I am ever going to explain your perceived anomalies my answer is, of course I'm not. That's not my job. I leave those judgements to people who are qualified to make those judgements. You don't seem to have any qualms about substituting your amateur's analysis of the medical evidence for that of people who are actually competent to make such judgements. If you could find a competent person who has seen the autopsy evidence and shares your conclusion, we would have something to talk about, but you don't.

As for unsolvable problems, those are all in your head. I have no explanation for what goes on in there.
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If JBC was turned as he was hit, it would lead to a non-circular entry wound, depending upon where the shot originated, would it not?

If he turned in reaction to hearing the first shot, it implies he was hit by a second bullet and probably too soon after hearing the shot to have been fired from the same bolt action rifle.


"probably too soon"???

Just how did you figure that one out.

JBC is seen starting his turn in reaction to the first shot at Z164. The second shot was fired at about Z219-220. That's 3 seconds after JBC reacted and the reaction was not immediate. If Zapruder's camera jiggle at Z155 was in reaction to the shot, it was fired in the Z147-148 time frame. That is based on the lag time of 7-8 frames between when the head shot was fired and Zapruder's reaction at Z318. That's about 4 seconds between the first and second shot. More than enough time to fire an aimed shot.
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Westbrook testified that he returned directly to the police station after Oswald was arrested in the theater (he didn’t arrive in his own car). So Barret’s account of Westbrook flipping through the wallet and asking him if he knew Hidell or Oswald couldn’t have happened at 10th and Patton.

Mr. BALL. Now, what did you do after that [arrest at theater]?
Mr. WESTBROOK. I went back to the city hall and resumed my desk.
20
If JBC was turned as he was hit, it would lead to a non-circular entry wound, depending upon where the shot originated, would it not?

If he turned in reaction to hearing the first shot, it implies he was hit by a second bullet and probably too soon after hearing the shot to have been fired from the same bolt action rifle.
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