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When you serve at the pleasure of the President, you have to accept a lot of things. All of the Cabinet officials can be fired without cause. I find it interesting that the only senior official the President can't fire is the Veep. He's stuck with him no matter what.

JFK appointed a number of Republicans to key positions including Cabinet secretaries Robert McNamara (Defense) and C. Douglas Dillon (Treasury).

AI had just told me that JFK had appointed no Republicans to Cabinet positions which further erodes my confidence in AI.

Nixon also made several cross-party appointments including JFK's brother-in-law Sargent Shriver as ambassador to France, John Connally as Treasury Secretary, and perhaps my favorite Democrat of all time, Daniel Patrick Moynihan as Ambassador to India and later to the UN.

one fine day, there shall be ‘ETAI’, and all shall be known, unless you’re with the Greys, who are with the chinese if you pleez.  even aliens make mistakes, god made them, too!
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You're just flying in the face of reality if you ignore that Nixon tried that Vietnamization plan and it collapsed instantly...Kennedy went to Ambassador Gullion in the 1950's and Gullion confided that if America tried to fight the North Vietnamese that they would end up exactly like the French...Most of what you write is based on revisionist advantage taking of the fact that Kennedy never reached the 1964 election in order to prove his plan...I think DiEugenio has done a good job in showing the concerted world peace initiative and detente Kennedy was trying with his Cold War opponents and that very definitely included unprecedented de-escalation efforts like those he sent Jean Daniel to negotiate in Cuba...

That kind of thing would get you marked for assassination with the right wing Cold Warriors Kennedy faced in his own government...Best illustrated by Douglass...And Oliver Stone...

I wish DiEugenio would step up and counter you over on the Censorship Forum...
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yeah, when i get confused by all the different media viewpoints, i always ask the same question to myself, that being ‘WWJD’?  Oops, wrong forum…… i mean (WWEVDD) ?  That’s Eugene V Debs may he rest in peace.

but you know, you gotta give the old orange coot bonus points for trying out World Federalism, huh?  Let’s give that guy a hearty round of applause.  Cord Meyer would be looking down and smiling about now.  Nice try, my orange liege heh heh heh….


                                                          Wile E. Coyote Knockoffs

                                    When are you Numb Nuts gonna stop chasing this Road Runner?
14
The focus of this one-page article is Dr. Michael Baden's demonstration in the 1988 NOVA documentary Who Shot President Kennedy? of how far forward JFK would have had to be leaning to make the HSCA FPP's trajectory through the neck align with the sixth-floor window.

"Dr. Baden Refuted the Single-Bullet Theory"

Dr. Wecht mocked the FPP majority's assumption about JFK's forward lean with the joking remark that they were assuming that JFK was bent over tying his shoe laces when the bullet struck. This humorous exaggeration perfectly captures the demonstrably false nature of the FPP's assumption, which Dr. Baden was nice enough to demonstrate in front of TV cameras.

Of course, Baden had no idea he was driving a huge nail in the SBT's coffin with his demonstration.

Keep in mind that Dr. Humes's wound diagram for the WC (i.e., CE 385) puts the wound at C3 or C4. Humes put the wound noticeably above the throat wound, as we see in CE 385. Humes had to put the back wound above the throat wound because he and the WC claimed the bullet traveled a "downward path" through the neck, a piece of pure fiction that even the HSCA FPP rejected and debunked.

True to form, SBT believers shrug off this enormous conflict between the autopsy doctors and the HSCA FPP experts. No matter what, for them the SBT still works, never mind that Humes put the wound at least 2.5 inches higher in CE 385 than where the FPP located it. One WC apologist here, apparently clueless about basic geometry, has even claimed that it makes no difference whatsoever if Humes was wrong and the FPP was right about the wound's location! By golly, the SBT still works! Amazing!

Finally, surely no objective person can look at the autopsy photo of the back wound and conclude that it shows the wound where Humes placed it in CE 385. The HSCA FPP concluded the photo puts the wound at T1, which is at least 2.5 inches lower than where CE 385 places it. Indeed, the FPP said they placed the wound "in the back area" and "a few inches lower" than where Humes placed it in his drawing:

The panel also places the entrance perforation on the lower, in the back area, a few inches lower than illustrated in this drawing. (1 HSCA 256)

Can you break it all down showing why Dr Baden is correct? You are already alluding to the difference between trajectory of the bullet that passed through JFK and JBC. How about explain the medical information that backs up your claim. Do you have any pictures of the other bullet needed to accomplish your fantastic claim. Will you also explain where the other shooter was located to put a bullet on a downward 45 degree angle through JBC and also the correct transverse left to right angle through JBC. This is really fascinating and I would really like to learn more from you.
15
DiEugenio did pretty good work in showing JFK intended to withdraw from Viet Nam...He met Ambassador Gullion in Viet Nam in the 1950's and knew it was unwinnable...Douglass showed that JFK intended a neutralization policy in Laos...I mean Johnson would not have needed to reverse NSAM 263...

I'm a bit embarrassed that you would make these erroneous statements in this thread, because some people might infer that I agree with you on this issue since you are defending me against Corbett's brain-dead, juvenile attacks.

I have shredded DiEugenio's case that JFK intended to unconditionally withdraw from Vietnam after the election. Even the vast majority of liberal scholars reject this dubious theory.

As for NSAM 263, this is a prime example of DiEugenio's severely flawed arguments for the unconditional-withdrawal-after-the-election myth. I respect James DiEugenio and believe he has produced some excellent research on the JFK case, but his research on JFK's Vietnam policy is inaccurate and vacuous.

Any objective person who reads NSAM 263 and the report upon which it is based can see (1) that they refute any notion that JFK was considering an unconditional withdrawal after the election, and (2) that the withdrawal they discuss was clearly conditioned on military success. This is surely one of the reasons that the overwhelming majority of scholars who have written about NSAM 263 have made the same point, from Stanley Karnow to Noam Chomsky to Marc Selverstone to Ed Moise.

NSAM 263 says that Kennedy approved the recommendations contained in Section I B (1-3) of the McNamara-Taylor report on their trip to South Vietnam, including the withdrawal of 1,000 "U.S. military personnel by the end of 1963." Let's read what the NSAM says on this:

At a meeting on October 5, 1963, the President considered the recommendations contained in the report of Secretary McNamara and General Taylor on their mission to South Vietnam.

The President approved the military recommendations contained in Section I B (1-3) of the report, but directed that no formal announcement be made of the implementation of plans to withdraw 1,000 U.S. military personnel by the end of 1963.


Obviously, nothing was said about an unconditional withdrawal of all military personnel in the NSAM.

Now, let's read some telling statements in Section I B (1-3) of the McNamara-Taylor report that prove the withdrawal plan was conditional and that military victory remained the primary goal. General Harkins was to meet with Diem to discuss the military changes needed to "complete the military campaign" in the I, II, and III Corps areas "by the end of 1964" and in the IV Corps area by "the end of 1965":

General Harkins review with Diem the military changes necessary to complete the military campaign in the Northern and Central areas (I, II, and III Corps) by the end of 1964, and in the Delta (IV Corps) by the end of 1965 (McNamara-Taylor, paragraph 1).

Obviously, "complete the military campaign" meant to achieve the goal of the campaign, i.e., victory. The I, II, III, and IV Corps areas constituted all of South Vietnam.

To accomplish mission completion, certain changes were recommended, including the following:

An increase in the military tempo in all corps areas. . . .

Emphasis on “clear and hold operations” instead of terrain sweeps which have little permanent value.

The expansion of personnel in combat units to full authorized strength.

The training and arming of hamlet militia to an accelerated rate, especially in the Delta.

A consolidation of the strategic hamlet program, especially in the Delta, and action to insure that future strategic hamlets are not built until they can be protected, and until civic action programs can be introduced. (McNamara-Taylor report, paragraphs 1:b-f)


Clearly, victory was the goal. There is not a hint of a slackening of the war effort, much less an unconditional withdrawal.

A telling statement comes in the next paragraph, paragraph 2, where we read that a crucial goal is to have Vietnamese personnel, i.e., South Vietnamese personnel, trained in essential functions now performed by American military personnel so that the Vietnamese can take over those functions by the end of 1965, and that it "should be possible" to withdraw "the bulk" of American personnel by that time. There is no hint of "all American personnel will be withdrawn regardless of the situation" or "we will withdraw all U.S. military personnel even if the South Vietnamese are not ready to handle current operations on their own." Let's read:

A program be established to train Vietnamese so that essential functions now performed by U.S. military personnel can be carried out by Vietnamese by the end of 1965. It should be possible to withdraw the bulk of U.S. personnel by that time. (McNamara-Taylor report, paragraph 1)

Needless to say, "should be possible" is clearly conditional and is worlds away from an unconditional withdrawal, and "bulk of" is not "all of." If the "bulk" of U.S. military personnel were to be (conditionally) withdrawn by the end of 1965, that means that quite a few would remain. More on this in a moment.

Now we come to the paragraph about the 1,000-man withdrawal. We read that the proposed withdrawal is "in accordance with" the program to train the South Vietnamese to take over operations now done by American military personnel, and that the small partial withdrawal (1,000 out of over 16,000) should be explained as an "initial step" in a "long-term" program to replace American soldiers with South Vietnamese soldiers "without impairment of the war effort":

In accordance with the program to train progressively Vietnamese to take over military functions, the Defense Department should announce in the very near future presently prepared plans to withdraw 1000 U.S. military personnel by the end of 1963. This action should be explained in low key as an initial step in a long-term program to replace U.S. personnel with trained Vietnamese without impairment of the war effort. (McNamara-Taylor report, paragraph 3)

So the primary goal was to complete the military campaign in South Vietnam by the end of 1965 and to do so partly by replacing American soldiers with South Vietnamese soldiers "without impairment of the war effort."

Following the section on the 1,000-man withdrawal, we read in paragraph B.6.A that "the security of South Vietnam remains vital" and that "we adhere to the overriding objective of denying this country to communism and of suppressing the Viet Cong insurgency":

The security of South Vietnam remains vital to United States security. For this reason, we adhere to the overriding objective of denying this country to Communism and of suppressing the Viet Cong insurgency as promptly as possible. (McNamara-Taylor Report, paragraph B.6.A)

So the idea that JFK didn't care if South Vietnam fell under Communist rule is baseless.

In a 2013 article in The Nation, even James K. Galbraith, the chief advocate of the theory that JFK was going to pull out of Vietnam after the election, acknowledged that under JFK’s withdrawal plan, we were going to leave 1,500 troops in South Vietnam for supply purposes and would continue to aid South Vietnam:

Training would end. Support for South Vietnam would continue. . . . After the end of 1965, even under the withdrawal plan, 1,500 US troops were slated to remain, for supply purposes. (“JFK’s Vietnam Withdrawal Plan Is a Fact, Not Speculation,” The Nation, online edition, November 22, 2013, https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/jfks-vietnam-withdrawal-plan-fact-not-speculation/).

Galbraith ignores the evidence that the withdrawal plan was also expressly conditional on the progress of the war effort, but at least he admits that the withdrawal was not going to be total and that aid to South Vietnam would continue after 1965.

I don’t understand how anyone can read NSAM 263 and its underlying report, the McNamara-Taylor report, and conclude that either of those documents supports the claim that JFK was going to unconditionally withdraw all U.S. forces from South Vietnam after the election.

16
What does gn stand for? I ask you because you seem to have a wealth of nowledge.

 I don’t know what the g stands for, but the n stands for ‘noll’, you dummy lol.
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well, Albert……. at least you’re staying on topic of thread title lol.

you are witnessing the evolution of a ‘zombie thread’, i am sure …....a pack o’lips now
18
Here's Stanley Karnow's excellent summary of what happened (note the mention of Diem's ambitious family, e.g., Nhu and his wife: the problem wasn't just Diem). As he points out, the coup and the deaths deepened US commitment and involvement as, among other things, Diem's successors made things worse and not, as hoped, better. Meanwhile Hanoi, watching this upheaval, stepped up its attacks. The political situation worsened; so did the military (the man in charge of the Strategic Hamlet Program was a sleeper North Vietnamese agent). Shorter: JFK handed LBJ an impossible situation.

Whether JFK would have sent in the hundreds of thousands of troops, made it an American war, is an open question. My guess is no, he wouldn't have. But the question as to whether he had decided to simply withdraw, unconditionally, is a closed one: he had not. Those conspiracists who say he had are, as usual, simply making things up. To their credit, they're very good at making things up.

From "Vietnam: A History", pgs. 277-278.

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I can't remember where I first heard it but it's a bad idea not matter what you call it. If the government hands out $5000 checks and doesn't offset it with cuts in other areas, it's going to be inflationary. If there is a windfall from the tariffs, I'd rather see it used to pay down the debt which would have a cooling effect on inflation and benefit the American people every bit as much as a handout. But since this is an election year, paying down the debt wouldn't make as big a splash as "free money". People don't understand that it's zero sum game. The more dollars the government puts into circulation, the less purchasing power those dollars will have.

                                                          "I can't remember where I first heard it................."

    Of course you can't remember where you heard it. You consistently listen to the same song being spouted by the same sources. "Wash, Rinse, Repeat". You, CM Punk, and Paul Heyman gotta Conga Line going.
20
     I am challenging the Wiegman Film "TIME LINE". You immediately have knee jerked to alleging that I have claimed, ".... all the footage has been altered". This is simply Not  True.
     I am using the Wiegman Film copy on the Discovery Channel DVD, "Unsolved History JFK, Death in Dealey Plaza". Specifically, what Wiegman Film copy are you examining?   

I'm using the Weigman version at the JFK Theorist.
Just to clarify:
1] You accept Altgens 8 shows the Hesters both lying on the grass while Zapruder and Sitzman are by the pedestal.
2] The Bell footage showing only Mrs Hester on the grass and her husband hiding out in the pergola while Zapruder and Sitzman are still moving about by the pedsestal.

The Weigman footage shows the moment Charles Hester gets up and moves to the pergola, heroically abandoning his wife.
The Weigman footage captures the moment that connects point #1 to point #2.
Are you suggesting Zapruder and Sitzman disappear between after point 1 (Altgens8) and reappear at point 2 (Bell)?
Or is it more plausible that, as Weigman runs towards the Hesters, Zapruder and Sitzman are still on top of the pedestal but the footage is too poor to pick them out?
We know Zapruder and Sitzman were still on top of the pedestal while Weigman was running towards the Hesters from the synchronisations provided by the JFK Theorist and me in this thread.
So - can you accept that the Weigman footage is too poor quality to show Zapruder and Sitzman still on the pedestal as Weigman runs towards the Hesters?

If you can provide a version of Weigman that clearly shows Zapruder and Sitzman are NOT on top of the pedestal while Weigman is running towards the Hesters then I will gladly concede that something suspicious is happening.

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