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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: JFK Hands Never Go To-Or Toward-His Throat
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 08:02:51 PM »Aside from Royell now thinking JFK was gagging on a bullet stuck in his throat like a recalcitrant meatball - which was of course entirely predictable from Team Royell - I am still somewhat lost as to what all this has to do with anything.
Nellie Connally, whom most folks here seem convinced was a hallucinatory housewife unworthy of being taken seriously, told CBS "The first sound, the first shot, I heard, and turned and looked right into the President's face. He was clutching his throat, and just slumped down. He just had a look of nothingness on his face." At the WC, she said JFK "reached up to his throat," "had both hands on his throat," and "it seemed to me there was - he made no utterance, no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down." Apart from whether JFK was actually clutching his throat, Nellie's observations seem hard to square with gagging and wiping blood.
In my extensive research of this issue, I did discover that Josiah Thompson and Pat Speer were in agreement way back in 2010 that the Thorburn reflex argument had been a "dead puppy" (Tink's phrase) for years and had been invented by Medical Quack Lattimer and promoted by Lying Fiend Posner to prop up the SBT and disguise the fact that JFK and JBC were hit by different shots. Here is what most folks seem to regard as the definitive refutation of the Thorburn argument: http://www.assassinationweb.com/milam-thor.htm. Based on this, Dr. Payette revises his opinion to "I have no clue and don't really care. What's for lunch?"
It is interesting how consistently - and I mean CONSISTENTLY - the phrase "clutching his throat" is used in reference to JFK and specifically Altgens6 as though it were mandatory. However, at the Ed Forum there were those who pointed out that JFK is not really "clutching" his throat.
Dr. Payette still maintains - while eschewing the term "opinion" - that what we see is in fact a reflex. James Gordon - remember him? - made the following point along the same lines in 2012. He suggested that while what we see may not in fact be exactly a Thorburn reaction, it is a reflex from nerve damage:
I thought I made it clear that the “Thorburn Reflex” was not necessarily my position. I certainly intended to make that clear. Having said that, what is described as this “Reflex” perfectly reflects what we see JFK doing with his arms.
The main point of my previous post was that the strange event of JFK’s arms were a direct consequence of the nerve damage when C7 was struck by the bullet. As I have pointed out the damage to that muscle is so extensive it was bound to have a consequence on the nerve structure attached to these muscle and the spinal cord directly behind the muscles. The reason I raised “Thorburn’s Reflex” was because that state suggests that once enacted it is difficult move the arms. The nerves that cause this don’t allow it. In the image below I have taken a series of frames to illustrate this point. Even with Jackie attempting to move the left arm it will not move. It is only when the head shot takes place, which destroys the entire nerve system, that the arms relax.
What I am trying to point out is that the impact with C7 did not just damage that Transverse Process, it also severely damaged the Intervertebral Disc C06 C07. And that damage had a major impact on the Cervical Nerves. It is that damage that caused the arms to rise and lock. They were only released when the entire nervous system was destroyed or severely damaged by the head shot.
The frames that James references are Z249, 273, 277, 308, 316. His post is here: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=post;quote=181318;topic=5057.21.
Why is it necessary to think Nellie was hallucinating to determine that she didn't perceive the event accurately? The shooting caught everyone by surprised and three shots were fired in less than 9 seconds, her husband was seriously wounded and the President was murdered in that short span of time. It must have been a bewildering experience. Frankly, it would be amazing if she was able to coolly recall what happened and the order in which things occurred. I would think it would be a blur to her.
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, I did discover that Josiah Thompson and Pat Speer were in agreement way back in 2010 that the Thorburn reflex argument had been a "dead puppy" (Tink's phrase) for years and had been invented by Medical Quack Lattimer and promoted by Lying Fiend Posner to prop up the SBT and disguise the fact that JFK and JBC were hit by different shots. Here is what most folks seem to regard as the definitive refutation of the Thorburn argument: 