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11
JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / The day I was photographed with President Carter
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 11:24:00 PM »
Well sort of.
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/CDH2X0/jan-26-2011-columbus-ohio-us-file-a-file-picture-dated-29-may-1980-CDH2X0.jpg
That's me in the lower left. You can see part of my face to the right of the cop's head. This was the first time I saw a sitting president up close. He had just gone past my position and had been looking to his right. I was close enough to see the beads of sweat on his forehead. I was so focused on Carter that I didn't even notice it was John Glenn next to him looking out the sunroof.

My real reason for posting this was because somebody on another forum made the statement that no President has ever ridden in an open top car after 11/22/1963. Obviously, that was wrong. Richard and Pat Nixon both poked their heads out of the sunroof of the limo during his second inauguration in 1973.

Getting back to the photo. The date was May 29, 1980 and Reagan and Carter were holding competing rallies about six blocks apart. Reagan's rally was at the statehouse. Both rallies were during the lunch hour and I worked across the street from the statehouse, so I went there first. Reagan's crowd was so large I couldn't get anywhere close to him. After listening to Reagan for a short time, I decided to head north to the Carter rally. As the photo shows, Carter's crowd was much smaller. I got so close to him I could have hit him with a rock. I knew after that day Reagan was going to win the election.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Hypothetical question
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 10:42:18 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on Yesterday at 10:25:50 PM
The only evidence we have is that he was struck on the second shot.  The only evidence we have of an impact occurring in the car is on the second shot.  There is no evidence that Tague or anything in the car was struck on the third shot.  In fact we have evidence that the third shot was after Tague was struck.  I will admit it is not overwhelming evidence but it is all we have.
There is no evidence as to any of the 3 shots causing Tague's injury, only speculation. The only one I would rule out would be the second one because that was CE399 was recovered intact except for small fragments of lead from the base.
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No. It is simply taking the evidence at face value. No interpretation at all.
What you mean is taking selected witnesses' statements at face value which is a silly thing to do given how often witnesses are wrong about important details. If we take witness statements at face value, we would have to conclude the shooting happened a dozen or more ways.
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You have to read what Hickey wrote in his statement (18 H 762).  There was no turn to the rear and then a turn forward between the second and third shots. He observed what happened to JFK while looking at him when the last two rapid shots sounded:

"He was slumped forward and to his left, and was straightening up to an almost erect sitting position as I turned and looked.  At the moment he was almost sitting erect I heard two reports which I thought were shots and that appeared to me completely different in sound than the first report and were in such rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element between them. It looked to me as if the President was struck in the right upper rear of his head. The first shot of the second two seemed as if it missed because the hair on the right side of his head flew forward and there didn't seem to be any impact against his head. The last shot seemed to hit his head and cause a noise at the point of impact which made him fall forward and to his left again."
I can read what Hickey said but that doesn't mean I'm going to assume he got everything right. That's your game.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 10:33:21 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on Yesterday at 10:06:00 PM
I have published those many times before.
Which does nothing to improve on the inaccuracy of them.
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As I have explained, I do not have a model that duplicates a torso twist.
You seem to have a goofy idea that the human torso can twist like a rubber band. The torso moves as a unit and the shoulders can move very little independently of the torso. Anyone can try this out for themselves. See how much they can rotate their shoulders while keeping the torso square to the front. Very little.
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I am trying to get the position of his torso at the level of his fifth rib correct, so the shoulders are not turned as much as they are in z271.  But the fifth rib is about right.  You can see this yourself if you took the time to twist your torso from a forward seating position so you could see behind you.
The torso does not twist. The chest and abdomen rotate together. There is no twisting. The torso can turn independently of the hips but that does nothing to bolster your argument.
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Here is JBC at z254-255 from the front-left (Altgens No. 6):


Here is JBC as seen in the Zfilm at z254 for comparison:



And here is what he looks like in z268:



Now if you think the entry wound in his right armpit is not visible to a shooter in the SN (Oswald) you will have to explain what is blocking it.
You keep twisting words to try to make your goofy theory sound plausible. It's not working. The wound was not in the armpit. It was in his BACK near the armpit. No part of JBC's back was exposed to the sniper's nest at Z271 which makes it impossible for Oswald to have shot JBC in the back at that frame. Not even close to being possible.
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Keep in mind that the angle to the SN is very small at this point.  The shot from the SN looks like this:


It doesn't have to be large. JBC's back was not exposed to Oswald even if Oswald had been directly behind the limo. With Oswald slightly right of that, it makes it even more absurd that he could have shot him in the back at that time. Your theory is as ridiculous as some of the most absurd CT theories ever offered including the one that had Greer shooting JFK from the driver's seat. It's that bad.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Hypothetical question
« Last post by Andrew Mason on Yesterday at 10:25:50 PM »
Quote from: John Corbett on May 05, 2026, 08:12:04 PM
It has never been established which shot caused the injury to Tague.
The only evidence we have is that he was struck on the second shot.  The only evidence we have of an impact occurring in the car is on the second shot.  There is no evidence that Tague or anything in the car was struck on the third shot.  In fact we have evidence that the third shot was after Tague was struck.  I will admit it is not overwhelming evidence but it is all we have.

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What you really mean is your interpretation of that evidence.
No. It is simply taking the evidence at face value. No interpretation at all.

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Hickey was out of the frame when the second shot struck about Z222 so we don't know for sure which way he was facing. The last time we can see him prior to that shot was Z207 and he is clearly facing forward.Oh, goody. Here we go with your infatuation with witnesses again. No wonder you can't figure this thing out.
You have to read what Hickey wrote in his statement (18 H 762).  There was no turn to the rear and then a turn forward between the second and third shots. He observed what happened to JFK while looking at him when the last two rapid shots sounded:

"He was slumped forward and to his left, and was straightening up to an almost erect sitting position as I turned and looked.  At the moment he was almost sitting erect I heard two reports which I thought were shots and that appeared to me completely different in sound than the first report and were in such rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element between them. It looked to me as if the President was struck in the right upper rear of his head. The first shot of the second two seemed as if it missed because the hair on the right side of his head flew forward and there didn't seem to be any impact against his head. The last shot seemed to hit his head and cause a noise at the point of impact which made him fall forward and to his left again."


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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Last post by Andrew Mason on Yesterday at 10:06:00 PM »
Quote from: John Corbett on Yesterday at 07:40:29 PM
Well, at least you tried. Finally.
I have published those many times before.

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You don't have JBC's shoulders turned even close to how they were at Z271. The middle sketch approximates Zapruder's perspective but in reality, Zapruder was still slightly ahead of the limo at Z271. From Zapruder's position, JBC's shoulders were rotated clockwise away from Zapruder. You have his shoulders rotated counterclockwise from square to Zapruder. You have his head rotated more than his shoulders were turned.
As I have explained, I do not have a model that duplicates a torso twist.  I am trying to get the position of his torso at the level of his fifth rib correct, so the shoulders are not turned as much as they are in z271.  But the fifth rib is about right.  You can see this yourself if you took the time to twist your torso from a forward seating position so you could see behind you.

Here is JBC at z254-255 from the front-left (Altgens No. 6):


Here is JBC as seen in the Zfilm at z254 for comparison:



And here is what he looks like in z268:



Now if you think the entry wound in his right armpit is not visible to a shooter in the SN (Oswald) you will have to explain what is blocking it. 

Keep in mind that the angle to the SN is very small at this point.  The shot from the SN looks like this:

[/quote]
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Video: Johnson Did Not Rule Out A Conspiracy
« Last post by Michael Capasse on Yesterday at 09:59:07 PM »
Quote from: John Corbett on Yesterday at 05:18:19 PM
Have you listened to his taped conversations with LBJ? Hoover was clueless."They" were the DPD. They did turn over the investigation to the FBI but that doesn't mean it made it up the ladder to Hoover. His conversations with LBJ indicated he didn't have a grasp of some of the most basic facts.The memo was from Katzenbach to Moyers. What the hell does that have to do with the conversations between Hoover and LBJ?Neither are your opinions.

How do you go from this  BS: .... 

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"By the time he wrote that, there was already enough evidence gathered that there was no doubt Oswald was the assassin and the WC would come to that conclusion."

..to some phone conversation with Hoover?
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Are there any "researchers" here who started out as LNs but who are now CTs?
« Last post by Joffrey van de Wiel on Yesterday at 09:19:01 PM »
Quote from: Mark Ulrik on May 03, 2026, 08:47:22 AM
I've seen statements like this before, but is it really up to the individual to decide whether his or her personal sense of doubt meets the threshold of legally defined reasonable doubt?

Mark,

I think my doubts are reasonable, but unsure if they meet the legal threshold. Had I been on the jury in the Clay Shaw trial, I would have voted not guilty. I have not however read the Garrison book On the trail of the Assassins and base this verdict on the Oliver Stone movie JFK, which is entertaining but for a large part speculation and fantasy.

I had an interesting exchange with John Corbett regarding Oswald's motive, and perhaps you will be able to address the following topic, an issue which has, ever so slightly, been pushing me over to the conspiracy benches across the aisle.

Immediately after the shots and the quick departure of the Presidential limousine to Parkland Memorial Hospital a great many people, both civilians and law enforcement personnel, crossed to the north of Elm Street and entered the area behind the picket fence on the infamous grassy knoll, the parking lot and the section immediately to the west of the TSBD.

A number of these people met individuals who claimed to be agents of the US Secret Service. They showed badges. At least one of them was armed with an automatic weapon. Another (or the same) one had dirty hands and wasn't dressed as expected of a federal agent on duty. Secret Service agents, plural, were located behind the TSBD. They identified themselves as such to a DPD officer, if I remember all this correctly.

The record shows that no Secret Service agents remained at Dealey Plaza after the motorcade left. They followed the limousine to Parkland, others remained at Love Field and the Trade Mart. Any agent encountered by witnesses at the location of the assassination must therefore be an impostor. With my tinfoil hat on, I can understand that some might think that these men were in fact the assassins, or covering the retreat of them. Interesting that they were located both behind the fence and the TSBD.

What is your understanding of this episode? Am I reading too much in it?
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Mannlicher-Carcano?
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 08:47:21 PM »
For what it's worth, I did find a Carcano short rifle for sale but in 7.35mm, not the 6.5mm of Oswald's rifle.

https://royaltigerimports.com/shop/c-grade-m38-carcano-short-rifle-cal-7-35x51/

There made be other differences as well. I found two listings for 6.5mm short rifles but both indicated they had been sold. I think someone is going to have to get lucky to find the same model or rifle as Oswald's because the few that come on the market seem to get bought very quickly.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 07:40:29 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on Yesterday at 06:36:53 PM
Here is a rough 3D Sketchup drawing of the position of the two men from the front and the side showing the location of the TSBD:



Here is the model built on the Trask map of DP:



You will have to explain why you think JBC's front is facing the SN.
Well, at least you tried. Finally.

You don't have JBC's shoulders turned even close to how they were at Z271. The middle sketch approximates Zapruder's perspective but in reality, Zapruder was still slightly ahead of the limo at Z271. From Zapruder's position, JBC's shoulders were rotated clockwise away from Zapruder. You have his shoulders rotated counterclockwise from square to Zapruder. You have his head rotated more than his shoulders were turned. The only person I ever saw able to do that was Linda Blair in The Exorcist. Unpossessed people can't do that. JBC's head turn is close enough to being accurate but you aren't showing his shoulders turned nearly enough. You would need to turn his shoulders a good 30 degrees clockwise to even be in the ballpark.

At the very least, a line through JBC's shoulders was parallel to the sides of the car. Oswald was firing from a position to the right rear of the limo. He would have no angle to shoot JBC anywhere in his back, even if we give you the benefit of the doubt on all estimates of JBC's shoulder turn. Oswald would have seen the front of JBC's torso, not the back. Even with the erroneous position of JBC's shoulders, your middle drawing shows that if the line of the bullet were to continue, it would exit from the left side of JBC's chest, not the right. You can't make this work, no matter how hard you try.
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JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Last post by Andrew Mason on Yesterday at 06:36:53 PM »
Quote from: John Corbett on Yesterday at 05:33:32 PM
The FRONT of JBC's torso. That is what is exposed to Oswald. He could have hit the outside of JBC's right arm with a grazing shot. No way to enter anywhere on JBC's back. Why do you keep lying to yourself by telling yourself that could have happened.
Here is a rough 3D Sketchup drawing of the position of the two men from the front and the side showing the location of the TSBD:



Here is the model built on the Trask map of DP:



You will have to explain why you think JBC's front is facing the SN.


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