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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The smell of gunpowder
« Last post by Benjamin Cole on Today at 01:36:44 PM »
SMG-

OK, I will say the HSCA said that JFK was "probably assassinated as a result of conspiracy." I used the word "likely."

JFK was probably assassinated as a result of the conspiracy, said the HSCA in 1979. The second official investigation into the JFKA.

---30---

This is AI slop below, but OK on facts---

AI Overview        

President Lyndon B. Johnson used the threat of a nuclear war that could "kill 40 million Americans in an hour" to pressure key leaders into joining the Warren Commission.

The Phone Calls and the "40 Million Dead" Threat

The Context: Immediately after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in November 1963, LBJ feared that unverified public rumors and conspiracy theories blaming Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev or Cuban leader Fidel Castro could escalate into an international military conflict.

The Argument: To convince reluctant officials—including Senator Richard Russell and Chief Justice Earl Warren—to serve on the investigating panel, Johnson argued that a credible, unified national investigation was vital to prove Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and to prevent public panic from sparking a catastrophic nuclear war.

Persuading Earl Warren: Chief Justice Earl Warren initially turned down requests to lead the commission, believing that a sitting Supreme Court justice should not take orders or lead an inquiry for the executive branch. According to recorded telephone transcripts and historical accounts, Johnson summoned Warren to the White House, pressed him on the grave national security risks, and reportedly invoked FBI intelligence regarding potential foreign involvement. Warren ultimately broke down in tears and agreed to serve "for the good of America".

--30--

Elsewhere I have posted on State Dept employees in Mexico getting canned for wanting to pursue Havana leads into the JFKA.

Hoover, tight with LBJ, was working the LHO-LNT within 48 hours.

You are correct, the HSCA concluded LHO was the sole gunman who struck the target, even if there was a diversion, or fourth shot at JFK, from GK.

I have reservations about that conclusion. But each to his own.

 

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BS: BS: BS: BS: BS:

The standard CT dodge when asked to produce evidence that doesn't exist. In the last few days, MTG has resorted to this 3 times. Anthony Marsh was famous for this tactic on McAdams' forum. He would invariably follow it up with "Learn to google".

What dodge? U are already aware two of them have been posted on the second page of this thread.
 :D Are stalling for time or is it just lame excuses to somehow hold it together?
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already posted.
You would know that after having falsely tagged it as hear-say 

 BS: BS: BS: BS: BS:

The standard CT dodge when asked to produce evidence that doesn't exist. In the last few days, MTG has resorted to this 3 times. Anthony Marsh was famous for this tactic on McAdams' forum. He would invariably follow it up with "Learn to google".
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                                                                     - YOU TUBE -

                    "Raw Footage #1: The F.M. Bell film out-of-camera original"      by - The JFK Theorist  (1:19)

    The Bell Film still frame you have posted above is CROPPED.  Zapruder is visible on the (L), on an Uncropped Bell Film. Sitzman is also visible between the sprocket holes.
     I recommend you use the Bell Film I have listed above to help with your time stamping. "The JFK Theorist" posts extremely good copies of JFK assassination films on You Tube. He sometimes posts on this forum as "Alex Harris".
     Altgens gave WC Testimony that he initially followed law enforcement UP the knoll. When we see Altgens above, he has come back down the knoll and is now walking laterally L-R. Tick Tock, Tick Tock.
     

Firstly, this version of Bell is FAR superior to the one I was using and will be far more helpful, so thanks for that.
I'd like to go slowly to piece together my thinking here. The first thing I'd like to clear up is your comment in an earlier post that in the Bell film Weigman can be seen walking towards Zapruder. As far as I can tell this is not correct but I might be misunderstanding something so I'd like to clear it up. It's not a 'gotcha' or anything, just a genuine attempt to work this timeline out.

In the Bell film we see the limo enter the underpass followed by 3 cars. The camera then quickly pans to the right and shows us the GK area, where we see Zapruder and Sitzman making their way from the plinth and, as it pans across, Weigman in a prone position from where he was filming the Hesters:



This is the moment just before there is a cut/jump in the film.
We can see Weigman lying on the steps. He has just finished filming the Hesters (Mr Hester can be just about made out in the shadows of the pergola, Mrs Hester is getting up from her prone position). Weigman turns around and starts to get up. In the bottom left corner we can see Hargis stood by the lamp post.

The film then cuts/jumps to the scene below. There is no way to tell how much time has passed but a few things have changed - Altgens has appeared out of nowhere, Weigman is now filming the Newmans and Hargis is now running across the road:



Do you agree that the Bell film does NOT show Wegman walking towards Zapruder?
Do you agree there is no way to tell, just by watching the Bell film, how much time has passed between these two images because of the cut/jump?
Do you agree that Weigman has moved from his position filming the Hesters to his position filming the Newmans?

Again, no 'gotchas', just honest questions.

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Tell us who those witnesses were and what they said they saw.

already posted.
You would know that after having falsely tagged it as hear-say 
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Garbage - Take it up with the Fort Worth Star Telegram, the picture and caption was in their paper and on their website.
Three witness confirm a bullet in the grass. You just don't like what they said.

Tell us who those witnesses were and what they said they saw.
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And the correct solution does not have to explain every aspect of the Tague wounding. One fact is crystal clear: the lone-gunman theory has no rational, credible way to explain the Tague incident. The least-absurd theory that you can offer is patently ridiculous and utterly unscientific.

This from a guy who has offered no alternative explanation for how the Tague injury occurred. Why don't you give us an alternative theory wo we can compare it to the possibilities that it was caused by one of Oswald's shots. As is the custom for most CTs, you set the bar very high for the LNs and very low for yourself. We are expected to prove every last detail with 100% certainty while you are allowed to speculate while providing no evidence.
Quote

In contrast, I can offer at least two plausible shooting locations from which a bullet could have barely missed JFK's head and then hit the Tague curb. Your only shooting location is the sixth-floor window, from which no bullet could have been fired that had even a remote chance of hitting the Tague curb and causing Tague's wound.

If you can, why don't you.

A number of plausible explanations have been offered for how a shot from Oswald's rifle could have continues down range and struck the curb near Tague. Posner has theorized the bullet hit a tree branch. I don't necessarily believe that but I can't logically refute it either. Others have suggested the bullet struck the traffic arm that the limo passed under. Again, not my theory but possible. I lean toward the first shot missing to the right of the limo, ricocheting off the pavement and continuing down range to toward Tague. I used a Google Earther view of Dealey Plaza and it shows a line from the sniper's nest to where Tague was standing passes through the right lane of Elm St. Still others believe that a lead fragment from the headshot passed over the windshield and continued down range toward Tague. Without knowing the exit velocity of those fragments, it's impossible to say whether or not that was possible.

Now let's see your explanations.
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I don't need to explain it. You do. You are the one who has postulated that the hole in the turf is a bullet hole. The burden is on you to provide the evidence to support that. You have failed miserably.
All hearsay. Not one of these people is on record as saying they saw a bullet.

And I guess we're supposed to believe that it means nothing that photos show that the man in the suit leaned down, put his hand in the hole, brought his hand upward with the hand cupped, and then put his hand in his pocket.


Tell us who that man was and what he said he found? Cite a source for these alleged photos so we can judge for ourselves what they show.

Garbage - Take it up with the Fort Worth Star Telegram, the picture and caption was in their paper and on their website.
Three witness confirm a bullet in the grass. You just don't like what they said.
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Yes, exactly.

Notice he still has not explained what else could have hit the grass in such a way as to make Officer Foster feel certain that a bullet had hit the grass.

I don't need to explain it. You do. You are the one who has postulated that the hole in the turf is a bullet hole. The burden is on you to provide the evidence to support that. You have failed miserably.
Quote

Of course, to believe his lme denial, we'd have to believe that Lt. Day merely repeated what he'd heard, that the police inspector who talked with Dudman merely repeated what he'd heard, and that Walters' wife was lying when she said her husband told her they found a bullet in the grass.

All hearsay. Not one of these people is on record as saying they saw a bullet. [/quote]

And I guess we're supposed to believe that it means nothing that photos show that the man in the suit leaned down, put his hand in the hole, brought his hand upward with the hand cupped, and then put his hand in his pocket.
[/quote]

Tell us who that man was and what he said he found? Cite a source for these alleged photos so we can judge for ourselves what they show.
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