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11
Because under The Education Forum and Jim DiEugenio the CT community has taken a serious wrong turn and ran the credibility of JFK research on to the rocks via Greg Parker and Bart Kamp...This single issue and the corruption around it has railroaded and paralyzed good JFK research and made the JFK internet a trench warfare battle zone of no progress and confusion...It isn't the Lone Nutters who are doing this it is that idiot Jim DiEugenio and his tendency towards generating gangs and cliques of favorites over good research...Jim is in it for the ego satisfaction and he has a whole internet of sycophants that take that bargain and help him along with it...That group just succeeded in putting a prime DiEugenio ass-kisser, Andrew Iler, in dictatorial control of The Education Forum and its "Moderator Team" (All DiEugenio suck-ups)...

The reason it is an issue is because the good evidence DiEugenio has helped railroad out of view with his corrupted methods is clearly establishing that Oswald was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination...The Education Forum makes itself the welcomed home of unlimited bullsh*t that fills its annals with years of detailed fodder yet carefully stays away from the important necessary conclusions this evidence leads to...And they do it under the implied premise that they are the ultimate researchers with the best methods - all kept safe by wicked censorship and banning controlled by a core group of favored members (The Moderator Team)...They have the balls to suggest this assumption of superior status to the degree of giving instruction on how to put people on ignore...The whole time protecting the bogus Prayer Man theory with some of the worst corruption and dishonesty in research history and allowing no counter evidence...All headed off by false accusations of rules violations...

Why is it an issue?...Because the Prayer Man subject has successfully prevented a solving of the conspiracy single handedly...And it has been done by a creep researcher, Bart Kamp, who is protected from fair playing field adversarial debate by a group of dominating hacks, bullies, frauds, and suck ups who see the Prayer Man theory as a short route to insider status in the research community...

  So you were rejected. So what? This Forum does Not carry crying towels. 
12
   "Generally Understood..............." ??  STOP with the Ed Forum clap trap. Present your Evidence. We'll let you know.

The film evidence has the final say (along with Graves lol)...
13
Just what evidence would that be that establishes Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunchroom during the assassination?

Literally ALL the evidence...

Every single witness to Oswald's whereabouts puts him in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...Truly & Baker, new witness Sarah Stanton, Dougherty, Carolyn Arnold, Oswald himself, Buell Frazier (who said Oswald's partly-eaten cheese sandwich and apple were seen on the 2nd Floor Lunch Room table), and James Hosty who said Oswald admitted he was alone in the Lunch Room during the assassination...

There are no witnesses to Oswald being outside on the front steps top platform during the assassination...Frazier said Oswald wasn't there...Yet the dysfunctional CT community keeps insisting Oswald was there out front in order to indulge lunatic fringe researchers and their pet theories...
14

The reason it is an issue is because the good evidence DiEugenio has helped railroad out of view with his corrupted methods is clearly establishing that Oswald was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination.

Just what evidence would that be that establishes Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunchroom during the assassination?
15
It is generally understood that the plotters of the conspiracy went to Lovelady & Shelley and got them to lie and say they left the front steps 3 minutes after the shots because they were trying to doctor Victoria Adams' testimony in order to push it back 3 minutes in order to give Oswald time to make it down the steps...Adams was a problem because she and Styles did not see Oswald running down the NW steps...The plotters knew this so they went to Lovelady & Shelley and got them to push their times back in order to make Adams look stupid...They hadn't considered anyone closely examining Couch/Darnell at that time and seeing Lovelady & Shelley fast-walking up the extension revealing the true time...In 1974 Dallas reporter Dean Glaze got Shelley to admit that he was CIA...The rest is academic...Shelley was a major part of the conspiracy in the Lobby and guided Armstrong's "Harvey" out the back after being stopped at the front door by a cop...That is why Shelley was mentioned in Fritz's notes - but only in the context of being out front in the Lobby with Shelley 4 or 5 minutes after the shots...Kamp misrepresents that as being out front with Shelley during the shots...Kamp is a liar...

Couch/Darnell is film evidence anyone can see with their own eyes...Lovelady & Shelley's 3 minute lie is no valid substitute for what is more than obviously shown in Couch/Darnell...Stubbornly repeating it over and over while ignoring the plainly-visible evidence is not a credible research practice...Once you've proven Lovelady & Shelley are the men on the extension then the man in front of Calvery on the steps automatically becomes Molina...

   "Generally Understood..............." ??  STOP with the Ed Forum clap trap. Present your Evidence. We'll let you know.
16
As a follow-up, I quote more of physicist Howard Roffman's discussion on the evidence that FMJ ammo was not the ammo that hit JFK's head, and that the ammo that hit JFK's skull was traveling at a high velocity (whereas the alleged murder weapon was not a high-velocity rifle):

MTG doesn't believe that a FMJ bullet hit JFK's head even though a fragmented FMJ bullet was found in the limo. He believes a different type of ammo did hit JFK in the head even though not a trace of any other type of ammo was found in the limo or in JFK's head. I wonder what the thinks the fragmented FMJ bullet struck that caused it to fragment.
Quote

The Commission had its "expert" compare these fragments with the two similar fragments that were found in the front seat of the presidential limousine and identifiable with "Oswald's" rifle. The result of this comparison, as presented in the Report, is seemingly to associate these traceable fragments with the head wounds. The expert is quoted as follows:

"the recovered fragments were very similar to the ones recovered on the front seat and the floor of the car. This to me, indicates that those fragments did come from the bullet that wounded the President in the head." (Warren Report, p. 87)

These are the last words of the Report's discussion of the head wounds. Since no qualifying language follows, the reader is left with the impression that the "expert opinion" is valid in associating the identifiable fragments with the wounds. Nowhere in the Report do we find the simple fact that the fragmentation of both the test bullet and the found bullet pieces is not an exclusive occurrence, as implied. The break-up observed is consistent with the normal fragmentation pattern of full-jacketed military bullets. When such bullets break apart, the core usually separates from the jacket. The Commission could have produced the same effect if it fired the bullet through a piece of masonite.

Thus, for all its claims, the Commission was able to present no credible evidence associating bullets from "Oswald's" rifle, or even military bullets in general, with the President's head wounds.

JFK's head was blown apart and a fragmented FMJ Carcano bullet was found in the limo with two pieces which were ballistically matched to Oswald's Carcano. It requires a person with common sense to figure out that fragmented bullet was the one that hit JFK in the head. I guess that leaves MTG out.
Quote

The nature of the bullet fragmentation within the President's head actually disassociates military bullets from the head wounds, and strongly suggests that some type of sporting ammunition struck the head. . . .

This is where MTG pretends he's an expert on ballistics.
Quote

The "Clark Panel" is describing a 6.5 mm. piece of metal that separated from the bullet upon entering the skull and became embedded in the skull at the bottom portion of the entrance wound. This, the key to the type of ammunition causing the wound, vitiates Dr. Humes's previously cited testimony that a "jacketed bullet" probably caused this entrance wound.

The bullet from which was shaved this substantial fragment upon entrance could not have been covered with a hard metal jacket such as copper alloy. Such a fragment is, in fact, a not infrequent occurrence from a lead bullet. Rowland Long, in his book The Physician and the Law, speaks of the penetration of lead bullets into the skull and asserts: "Not infrequently a collar shaped fragment of lead is shaved off around the wound of entrance and is found embedded in the surrounding scalp tissues." Criminologist Lemoyne Snyder describes a similar phenomenon in his book Homicide Investigation. Forensic pathologist Dr. Halbert Fillinger explained to me the principles that rule out full-jacketed ammunition and suggest a lead bullet:

"You can appreciate the fact that a jacketed projectile is going to leave very little on the [bone] margins because
it's basically a hardened jacket, and it's designed so that it will not scrape off when it goes through a steel barrel. One can appreciate the fact that going through bone, which is not as hard as steel, may etch or scratch it, but it's not going to peel off much metal. In contrast to this a softer projectile might very well leave little metallic residues around the margins."

And yet a fragmented FMJ bullet was found inside the limo. An inconvenient truth for MTG for which he seems to have no explanation.
Quote

The Commission's case against Oswald requires full-jacketed ammunition to have been used to inflict the wounds of President Kennedy. The presence of the 6.5 mm. metallic fragment in the margin of the skull entrance wound eliminates the possibility that a full-jacketed bullet entered through this hole. Such a fragment located at that site is indicative of a lead or soft-nosed bullet. . . .

MTG continues to pretend he is an expert on ballistics. It's quite entertaining when he does this.
Quote

The loss of a substantial quantity of brain tissue becomes significant when we consider Dr. Humes's testimony that the X rays showed "30 or 40 tiny dustlike particle fragments" of metal in the President's head (2 H 353). Humes cautioned that the fragments that appeared to be "the size of dust particles" (2 H 359) on the X rays would actually have been smaller because "X ray pictures ... have a tendency to magnify these minute fragments somewhat in size" (2H353). Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman saw the X rays during the autopsy and provided a similar description: " ... the whole head looked like a little mass of stars, there must have been 30, 40 lights where these little pieces were so minute that they couldn't be reached" (2 H 100). . . .

Dr. Fillinger tells me that the fragments described in the President's brain were not characteristic of a military round. . . . He feels that the break-up of the bullet is more consistent with a hunting round. . . .

No hunting rounds nor fragments of hunting rounds were found in JFK's head nor inside the limo. There was a fragmented FMJ military round found in the limo. An inconvenient fact which MTG continues to ignore.
Quote

The size and extent of the gaping defect, and the associated fracturing and fragmentation of the skull, are indicative of a high-velocity bullet's having struck the head to produce this damage. Dr. Fillinger has expressed to me his strong feeling that the extensive fragmentation of the skull is the consequence of a high-velocity round. He stated that the presence of such massive fracturing means that "there is a tremendous amount of force applied to the skull to produce all these fractures .. .. This has been pretty well fragmented, as a matter of fact," he told me, "and again, speaks for some sort of high-velocity round". . . .

Now MTG pretends to be an expert in forensic pathology.
Quote

Because there was great damage to the head and extensive bullet fragmentation in the brain, Dr. Fillinger was doubtful that the Mannlicher-Carcano could have produced these wounds. "To produce this kind of effect," he told me, "you have to have a very high-velocity projectile, and the Carcano will not stand very high bolt pressures."(Presumed Guilty, 1976, pp. 113-120)[/font]

Just as a reminder, Dr. Fillinger was a nationally recognized forensic pathologist, considered a "giant" in the field, who was known for handling the most serious cases. "The Halbert E. Fillinger Lifetime Achievement Award" was named after him to recognize outstanding contributors to forensic science. The International Association of Coroners and Medical Examiners chose Dr. Fillinger to represent them on the U.S. Department of Justice's National Medicolegal Review Panel. The website Practical Homicide says this about him:

Tell us when Dr. Fillinger examined the medical evidence.
Quote

The "Halbert E. Fillinger Lifetime Achievement Award" is named in honor of Dr. Halbert Fillinger, who was a forensic pathologist. His 40 years of service included his time as Chief Medical Examiner in the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office before being elected Coroner of Montgomery County, PA.

During his career, Dr. Fillinger lectured many times at the FBI academy in Quantico, Va., and all branches of the Armed Forces. Respected for his work, officials in the states of Texas, Michigan, Arkansas, Kentucky, Georgia, New York, New Jersey, and Colorado sought his advice. (https://www.practicalhomicide.com/current/Vidocq.html)


BTW, Dr. Fillinger regarded the SBT as pure bunk; he said there was just no way that CE 399 could have caused all of JFK's and Connally's non-fatal wounds and emerged virtually undamaged, especially with its lands and grooves intact (Roffman, Presumed Guilty, pp. 142-144).

Anyone who still claims that JFK's head was hit with FMJ ammo needs to produce a single reputable forensic source that says that FMJ ammo striking skull bone can shatter into dozens of particles and can deposit fragments in the outer table of the skull upon penetration. World-renowned forensic pathologist Dr. Vincent DiMaio said that FMJ ammo will never shatter into dozens of tiny fragments; that if an x-ray shows a cluster of tiny fragments (a "lead snowstorm," as we see on JFK's skull x-rays), this "rules out" FMJ ammo; and that on the "rare" occasions when FMJ bullets do fragment after entering skull, they will leave "few" fragments:

An x-ray of an individual shot with a full metal-jacketed rifle bullet . . . usually fails to reveal any bullet fragments at all even if the bullet has perforated bone such as the skull or spine.If any fragments are seen, they are very sparse in number. . . .(Gunshot Wounds, p. 166)

In x-rays of through-and-through gunshot wounds, the presence of small fragments of metal along the wound track virtually rules out full metal-jacketed ammunition.. . . In rare instances involving full metal-jacketed centerfire rifle bullets, a few small, dust-like fragments of lead may be seen on x-ray if the bullet perforates bone. One of the most characteristic x-rays and one that will indicate the type of weapon and ammunition used is that seen from centerfire rifles firing hunting ammunition. In such a case, one will see a 'lead snowstorm'. . . . Such a picture rules out full metal-jacketed rifle ammunition or a shotgun slug. (Gunshot Wounds, p. 318)

For more information on the evidence that JFK's head was not hit with FMJ ammo and that FMJ ammo could not have produced the bullet fragmentation seen on the JFK autopsy skull x-rays, see my article "Forensic Science and President Kennedy's Head Wounds."

The only meaningful comparison would be a test 6.5mm FMJ round fired from a Carcano rifle into a synthetic skull filled with ballistic gel. All FMJ bullets are not alike and should not be expected to perform in a like manner. The 6.5mm is an unusual round that is not commonly in civilian use. More common FMJ bullets are .30-06 rounds which are used in a wide variety of weapons and the 5.56 NATO round, commonly used in AR-15 platforms. These bullets differ from the Carcano bullet in both diameter and velocity. On top of that, rifles are rarely used in homicides. Homicides committed with rifles using FMJ ammo are a subset of those, and homicides committed by gunshot wounds to the head using FMJ bullets fired from a rifle are an even smaller subset. Even a forensic pathologist who worked in that capacity for decades would see few if any homicides involving FMJ bullets fired into the victim's skull and likely would have seen no such homicides involving Carcano FMJ rounds. Therefore, generalizations regarding how such a round would behave when striking a victim's skull should be met with a good deal of skepticism. 
17
Why is any of this an issue? None of it sheds any light on the JFKA. It is just a bunch of screwballs trying to make something out of nothing.

Because under The Education Forum and Jim DiEugenio the CT community has taken a serious wrong turn and ran the credibility of JFK research on to the rocks via Greg Parker and Bart Kamp...This single issue and the corruption around it has railroaded and paralyzed good JFK research and made the JFK internet a trench warfare battle zone of no progress and confusion...It isn't the Lone Nutters who are doing this it is that idiot Jim DiEugenio and his tendency towards generating gangs and cliques of favorites over good research...Jim is in it for the ego satisfaction and he has a whole internet of sycophants that take that bargain and help him along with it...That group just succeeded in putting a prime DiEugenio ass-kisser, Andrew Iler, in dictatorial control of The Education Forum and its "Moderator Team" (All DiEugenio suck-ups)...

The reason it is an issue is because the good evidence DiEugenio has helped railroad out of view with his corrupted methods is clearly establishing that Oswald was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination...The Education Forum makes itself the welcomed home of unlimited bullsh*t that fills its annals with years of detailed fodder yet carefully stays away from the important necessary conclusions this evidence leads to...And they do it under the implied premise that they are the ultimate researchers with the best methods - all kept safe by wicked censorship and banning controlled by a core group of favored members (The Moderator Team)...They have the balls to suggest this assumption of superior status to the degree of giving instruction on how to put people on ignore...The whole time protecting the bogus Prayer Man theory with some of the worst corruption and dishonesty in research history and allowing no counter evidence...All headed off by false accusations of rules violations...

Why is it an issue?...Because the Prayer Man subject has successfully prevented a solving of the conspiracy single handedly...And it has been done by a creep researcher, Bart Kamp, who is protected from fair playing field adversarial debate by a group of dominating hacks, bullies, frauds, and suck ups who see the Prayer Man theory as a short route to insider status in the research community...
18
Doyle,

The only two things that are right in your tinfoil-hat CT are that big-tall, dressed-in-black Gloria Calvery is standing on one of the lower TSBD steps in Darnell, and that the person back in the corner isn't Lee Harvey Oswald.

-- Tom



The man facing Calvery is Molina...

Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...

The clique likes to keep its favorite researcher boy Bart Kamp from admitting that a major, embarrassing bogus claim blew up in his face and that someone he mocked and ridiculed handed his *** to him...It has to be really embarrassing to have a huge Prayer Man website and then wear the thing around your neck like a toilet seat with hacks still giving you credit for it while flagrantly ignoring the refuting evidence...The Prayer Man theory only continues to exist in direct relationship to the amount of censorship that supports it...
19

It is generally understood that the plotters of the conspiracy went to Lovelady & Shelley and got them to lie and say they left the front steps 3 minutes after the shots because they were trying to doctor Victoria Adams' testimony in order to push it back 3 minutes in order to give Oswald time to make it down the steps...Adams was a problem because she and Styles did not see Oswald running down the NW steps...The plotters knew this so they went to Lovelady & Shelley and got them to push their times back in order to make Adams look stupid...They hadn't considered anyone closely examining Couch/Darnell at that time and seeing Lovelady & Shelley fast-walking up the extension revealing the true time...In 1974 Dallas reporter Dean Glaze got Shelley to admit that he was CIA...The rest is academic...Shelley was a major part of the conspiracy in the Lobby and guided Armstrong's "Harvey" out the back after being stopped at the front door by a cop...That is why Shelley was mentioned in Fritz's notes - but only in the context of being out front in the Lobby with Shelley 4 or 5 minutes after the shots...Kamp misrepresents that as being out front with Shelley during the shots...Kamp is a liar...

Couch/Darnell is film evidence anyone can see with their own eyes...Lovelady & Shelley's 3 minute lie is no valid substitute for what is more than obviously shown in Couch/Darnell...Stubbornly repeating it over and over while ignoring the plainly-visible evidence is not a credible research practice...Once you've proven Lovelady & Shelley are the men on the extension then the man in front of Calvery on the steps automatically becomes Molina...
20
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Royell Storing on Today at 02:33:17 PM »
Well, why don't you read through the list lil tommy and count them up yourself.
As usual, you've missed the point.
Speer has compiled a list of 44 witnesses who recall JFK reacting as we see in the Z-film - arms moving upwards, slumping to the left, straightening up etc.
He also points out that not a single witness recalls him carrying on waving and smiling after the first shot.
It's a list of 44 witnesses confirming that the first shot was the one that caused JFK to have the extreme reaction we see in the Z-film.

Look at the Tyler/Speer evidence a few posts back, look at the OP.
How much evidence can you ignore?
Don't you feel weird ignoring all this evidence?
What does it say about you as a researcher?

  DAN - Yeah, "only" 44 witnesses, "who did not recognize the first blast as a gunshot for various reasons". There must have been something in the Texas water on 11/22/63 for "Only 44 witnesses" to ALL do this.  More Ed Forum  BS:
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