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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 11:27:01 AM »
Yet again I have to waste my time correcting your incompetence.

That's funny coming from the most incompetent poster on this forum.
Quote

JBC stated that he tried to look over his right shoulder after hearing the first shot, to check if JFK was OK.
It is Corbett's assertion that the Z-film shows JBC attempting to look OVER HIS RIGHT SHOULDER, just as he testified to doing.
It's my assertion that at no point before JBC is shot at z222/z223 does he make an attempt to look over his right shoulder to check on JFK.

So you think JBC made up that part about looking over his shoulder after hearing the first shot.
Quote

Let's see who is being honest about this.

JBC is looking to his left around z163 (Corbett likes to say "hard" to his left or "hard" to his right, in a truly desperate attempt to equate what we actually see in the Z-film with what he would like us to see. It's enough to say he is just looking to his left).
JBC quickly turns his head to the right, presumably in response to some kind of stimulus, and by z169 he is looking to his right, in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street:



Obviously, it is Corbett's contention that the stimulus JBC is responding to is the sound of a shot and we are seeing JBC in the process of turning to look OVER HIS RIGHT SHOULDER. In fact, the stimulus is very well documented and I will get to it in a bit.
Strangely, if we are to accept Corbett's falsehoods, JBC reacts quickly by turning to look to the right, but then he stops moving any further to the right. But he's supposed to be worried about whether JFK has been shot or not. He's supposed to be trying to look over his right shoulder (JFK is smiling and starts waving btw, so he's OK).

That is exactly what JBC said he did in response to the first shot. Had it not been for his testimony, I would not just assumed he turned in response to the shot. You have to put 2 and 2 together to figure this part out. Apparently, that's beyond your mental capacity.
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But by z193 his head is in exactly the position it was in z169. He is still looking towards the crowds lining Elm Street as he passes behind the Stemmons sign:



Why has he stopped turning his head if he is desperately trying to check on JFK?

Surely, if Corbett is to be believed, JBC should be straining around to look over his right shoulder as he travels behind the Stemmons sign. By the time he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign he should be looking over his right shoulder.
But that's not what we see in the Z-film.

I guess your lack of critical thinking skills prevents you from figuring out that it is difficult for a large man in a small seat to turn his body. 
Quote

What we actually see is that JBC is in exactly the same position he was as he passed behind the Stemmons sign. He is still looking towards the crowds lining Elm Street:



As usual, Corbett is talking nonsense.
The Z-film does NOT show JBC trying to look over his right shoulder at all.
It merely shows him looking in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street to his right.
There is no disputing this (by rational people, that is)

JBC told us in no uncertain terms that he turned to look over his right shoulder in reaction to hearing the gunshot. He also told us that unable to see JFK, he had started to turn back toward the front when he felt the second shot hit him in the back. That would have been about the same instant he reemerged from behind the sign. [/quote]

So what is the stimulus that JBC is responding to if not a gun shot?
We see JBC turning to look to his right between z160 and z169. Within less than two seconds all four occupants of the back of the limo all turn to face their right, looking in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street. All four occupants appear to be responding to the same stimulus, JFK begins to smile and wave at the people on his right (a very strange reaction to hearing a gunshot!) [/quote]

None of the other passengers recognized the first shot for what it was. JBC was an experienced hunter and knew the sound of a rifle when he heard it. As he later said, he immediately thought it was an assassination attempt. That was confirmed about 5 seconds after the second shot hit him when he was showered with pieces of JFK's brain.
Quote

This is from an article in the Dallas Morning News entitled, "Witness From the News Describes Assassination", written by Mary Woodward the day after the assassination [lifted from Pat Speer's website]:

"Four of us from Women’s News, Maggie Brown, Aurelia Alonzo, my roommate Ann Donaldson, and myself had decided to spend our lunch hour by going to see the President. We took our lunch along – some crackers and apples – and started walking down Houston Street. We decided to cross Elm and wait there on the grassy slope just east of the Triple Underpass, since there weren’t very many people there and we could get a better view. We had been waiting about half an hour when the first motorcycle escorts came by, followed shortly by the President’s car. The President was looking straight ahead and we were afraid we would not get to see his face. But we started clapping and cheering and both he and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us, it seemed. Jackie was wearing a beautiful pink suit with beret to match. Two of us, who had seen the President last during the final weeks of the 1960 campaign, remarked almost simultaneously how relaxed and robust he looked. As it turned out, we were almost certainly the last faces he noticed in the crowd. After acknowledging our cheers, he faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-shattering noise coming from behind us and a little to the right.

You make the same mistake many people make. You assume every witness has accurately remembered the event which can't possibly be true, since there are multiple versions of what happened but the JFKA only happened one way. Witness statements should be believed if they can be corroborated. JBC's account is corroborated. He said he turned to the right in reaction to hearing the first shot and we see him do that beginning at Z164. We can interpret the conflicting witness accounts in one of two ways, either some of the people on Elm St. didn't recognize the first shot for what it was or JBC reacted to a gunshot that didn't happen. Since you are really, really bad at weighing evidence, it's not surprising that you chose the wrong one.
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When we examine the Zapruder film there is only one moment when both JFK and Jackie (and JBC and Nellie) are looking toward the crowds lining Elm Street to their right and it is when they both begin to turn around z170. This is the moment Woodward is describing when she states "both he [JFK] and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us..."
I have cobbled together a couple of Z-frames to illustrate this moment. I've used z152, which shows Woodward's position and overlaid z170, the moment when Jackie and JFK begin to turn to their right:



The moment when Woodward and friends call out, making all four occupants of the limo turn to their right, is recalled by Vickie Adams in her WC testimony. Adams is watching the motorcade from the fourth floor and states:

"I watched the motorcade come down Main, as it turned from Main onto Houston, and watched it proceed around the corner on Elm, and apparently somebody in the crowd called to the late President, because he and his wife both turned abruptly and faced the building, so we had a very good view of both of them."

Both Adams and Woodward insist the first shot occurred shortly after this moment, ruling out an earlier shot.
JBC is NOT turning to look over his right shoulder because there has been no shot up to that point.
The first shot occurs at z222/z223, just after JFK has finished smiling and waving at Woodward and Co.

Typical FUBAR analysis from you.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Dan O'meara on Today at 10:49:46 AM »
This from one of the most deluded contributors on this forum. At Z163 JBC is looking hard to his left.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z163.jpg

At Z164, he starts rotating his head to the right.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z164.jpg

By Z200, just before he disappears behind the sign, his head is turned hard to the right.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z200.jpg

All of this happened in the span of about two seconds.

Yet again I have to waste my time correcting your incompetence.

JBC stated that he tried to look over his right shoulder after hearing the first shot, to check if JFK was OK.
It is Corbett's assertion that the Z-film shows JBC attempting to look OVER HIS RIGHT SHOULDER, just as he testified to doing.
It's my assertion that at no point before JBC is shot at z222/z223 does he make an attempt to look over his right shoulder to check on JFK.
Let's see who is being honest about this.

JBC is looking to his left around z163 (Corbett likes to say "hard" to his left or "hard" to his right, in a truly desperate attempt to equate what we actually see in the Z-film with what he would like us to see. It's enough to say he is just looking to his left).
JBC quickly turns his head to the right, presumably in response to some kind of stimulus, and by z169 he is looking to his right, in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street:



Obviously, it is Corbett's contention that the stimulus JBC is responding to is the sound of a shot and we are seeing JBC in the process of turning to look OVER HIS RIGHT SHOULDER. In fact, the stimulus is very well documented and I will get to it in a bit.
Strangely, if we are to accept Corbett's falsehoods, JBC reacts quickly by turning to look to the right, but then he stops moving any further to the right. But he's supposed to be worried about whether JFK has been shot or not. He's supposed to be trying to look over his right shoulder (JFK is smiling and starts waving btw, so he's OK).
But by z193 his head is in exactly the position it was in z169. He is still looking towards the crowds lining Elm Street as he passes behind the Stemmons sign:



Why has he stopped turning his head if he is desperately trying to check on JFK?
Surely, if Corbett is to be believed, JBC should be straining around to look over his right shoulder as he travels behind the Stemmons sign. By the time he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign he should be looking over his right shoulder.
But that's not what we see in the Z-film.
What we actually see is that JBC is in exactly the same position he was as he passed behind the Stemmons sign. He is still looking towards the crowds lining Elm Street:



As usual, Corbett is talking nonsense.
The Z-film does NOT show JBC trying to look over his right shoulder at all.
It merely shows him looking in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street to his right.
There is no disputing this (by rational people, that is)

So what is the stimulus that JBC is responding to if not a gun shot?
We see JBC turning to look to his right between z160 and z169. Within less than two seconds all four occupants of the back of the limo all turn to face their right, looking in the direction of the crowds lining Elm Street. All four occupants appear to be responding to the same stimulus, JFK begins to smile and wave at the people on his right (a very strange reaction to hearing a gunshot!)

This is from an article in the Dallas Morning News entitled, "Witness From the News Describes Assassination", written by Mary Woodward the day after the assassination [lifted from Pat Speer's website]:

"Four of us from Women’s News, Maggie Brown, Aurelia Alonzo, my roommate Ann Donaldson, and myself had decided to spend our lunch hour by going to see the President. We took our lunch along – some crackers and apples – and started walking down Houston Street. We decided to cross Elm and wait there on the grassy slope just east of the Triple Underpass, since there weren’t very many people there and we could get a better view. We had been waiting about half an hour when the first motorcycle escorts came by, followed shortly by the President’s car. The President was looking straight ahead and we were afraid we would not get to see his face. But we started clapping and cheering and both he and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us, it seemed. Jackie was wearing a beautiful pink suit with beret to match. Two of us, who had seen the President last during the final weeks of the 1960 campaign, remarked almost simultaneously how relaxed and robust he looked. As it turned out, we were almost certainly the last faces he noticed in the crowd. After acknowledging our cheers, he faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-shattering noise coming from behind us and a little to the right.

When we examine the Zapruder film there is only one moment when both JFK and Jackie (and JBC and Nellie) are looking toward the crowds lining Elm Street to their right and it is when they both begin to turn around z170. This is the moment Woodward is describing when she states "both he [JFK] and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us..."
I have cobbled together a couple of Z-frames to illustrate this moment. I've used z152, which shows Woodward's position and overlaid z170, the moment when Jackie and JFK begin to turn to their right:



The moment when Woodward and friends call out, making all four occupants of the limo turn to their right, is recalled by Vickie Adams in her WC testimony. Adams is watching the motorcade from the fourth floor and states:

"I watched the motorcade come down Main, as it turned from Main onto Houston, and watched it proceed around the corner on Elm, and apparently somebody in the crowd called to the late President, because he and his wife both turned abruptly and faced the building, so we had a very good view of both of them."

Both Adams and Woodward insist the first shot occurred shortly after this moment, ruling out an earlier shot.
JBC is NOT turning to look over his right shoulder because there has been no shot up to that point.
The first shot occurs at z222/z223, just after JFK has finished smiling and waving at Woodward and Co.

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Oh, really, Matt ?  As “rough” as a B & E to get a film ? lol, you’re a riot !
Mark, compared to most members here, i think i've been living under a JFKA rock  :D
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I am afraid to receive the ‘transfer’ because I am afraid to find out the truth……… or get a virus……or both !
I know you gentlemen aren't used to downloading zip files, but it's not a virus, heck, go ahead, run the zip file on virustotal see if it has any viruses, you won't find any.
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I am afraid to receive the ‘transfer’ because I am afraid to find out the truth……… or get a virus……or both !
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It's far more likely Doyle's stuff would get reported by The Onion or the Babylon Bee.

More like Fox or Newsmax ………. scoooooooore !!!

you walk right into these lol
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Never did touch the (Dis)education Forum but dang, it's gotten to that point? Guess that "forum" is rough.

Oh, really, Matt ?  As “rough” as a B & E to get a film ? lol, you’re a riot !
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“Trump (has) been unfairly accused on some points”
      —————— Benjamin Cole

“Hitler (has) been unfairly accused on some points”

      ———- any right-wing nut job on the internyet

Oh, by the way, think that mssr. B has been reading his disses over here lol, he’s gone crazy posting his interviews wif ebrybody!  was it something we said ?  like, prouty and hemming were liars and frauds, but very interesting men in any event.
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Trump [has] been unfairly accused on some points.

You're full of you-know-what.
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TS-

This is exactly the sort of conversation that does not belong in a JFKA forum.

I will stand by my statement, that Trump and Biden have been unfairly accused on some points, and drop the topic.



Post even a single example in which you believe Trump has been unfairly accused, concerning a major accusation levelled against him.

TDS is advanced as a pejorative, a facet of the Trump cult, itself. A cult is created to protect its personality from any
and all accountability for his words or deeds. TDS is both a substitute for factual defense, and a technique intended to defend the indefensible by discrediting all criticism.

Maxwell is a naturalized US citizen. Whose US citizenship are Markwayne, Blanche, Trump and his supporters interested in stripping, the convicted sex trafficker of young girls doing a 20 year "bid" or Rep. Ilhan Omar's

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/i-wish-her-well-trump-comments-on-arrest-of-epstein-aide-ghislaine-maxwell-idUSKCN24N08E/

The New Republic
https://newrepublic.com › post › 204694 › ghislaine-maxwell-todd-blanche-interview-transcript-trump-epstein

"Is This What Got Ghislaine Maxwell Her Cushy Prison Transfer?
Dec 19, 2025 Here's what Ghislaine Maxwell told Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche about Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein"

After "exonerating" Trump during two day visit to federal unit devoted to segregating sex offenders from general
medium security federal prison population, Maxwell's attorney, a personal friend of Blanche, worked out a reward
for Maxwell.

Maxwell now has more privileges than any other prisoner in the minimum security facility branch moved her to.

Maxwell is allowed contact visits.

My friend, convicted of nothing, not even accused, is permitted no contact visits with his spouse and no bail hearing,
after a month. He married his US citizen wife two years ago and filed for permanent residency at that time as her spouse.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/stephen-miller-wants-ice-facilities-173228826.html

Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com › us › ghislaine-maxwell-gets-concierge-style-treatment-prison-camp-whistleblower-claims-report
Ghislaine Maxwell gets special treatment at prison camp, whistleblower ...
Nov 10, 2025Whistleblower reveals Ghislaine Maxwell receives "concierge-style" treatment at minimum security prison camp, including custom meals and puppy time.

Just Security
https://www.justsecurity.org › 147642 › trump-deportation-immigration-judges
Trump Deportations: Remove, Replace, Press Immigration Judges
Jul 17, 2026 It replaced EOIR leadership and at least130 immigration judges, depleted courts across the country, recruited replacements that it is dubbing "deportation judges," and assigned military lawyers to short, renewable terms.

Judge David Bramlette III,
Mississippi Today

https://mississippitoday.org › 2026 › 06 › 30 › ice-custody-federal-judge-mississippi
ICE custody cases lag before federal judge in Mississippi
Jun 30, 2026A federal judge who's assigned to handle all ICE custody petitions in Mississippi has not decided a case on its merits since at least last October, court dockets show.

BOP
https://www.bop.gov › inmates › visiting.jsp
BOP: How to visit a federal inmate
Physical Contact In most cases, handshakes, hugs, and kisses (in good taste) are allowed at the beginning and end of a visit. Staff may limit contact for security reasons (to prevent people from trying to introduce contraband) and to keep the visiting area orderly.

VERSUS :
https://www.ice.gov/detain/detention-facilities/stewart-detention-center
"CCA/SDC provides time for each detainee to have visitation. Detainees are allowed one (1) visit per week (Sunday-Saturday) for up to one (1) hour of non-contact visitation with family and friends according to the schedule.
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