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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Mary Woodward said there were 3 shots and the 1st shot missed everything
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 02:40:39 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on Today at 02:21:52 PM
Bob Jackson is 92 and living in Manitou Springs, Colorado. Why don’t you ask him yourself?  Ask him how well he remembers the spacing of the shots.

If he didn't recall the shooting correctly at the time it happened, what reason is there to think he would get it right almost 63 years later?
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 Why is that a question?.

Because Roger Craig was a nutcase.
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How does your speculation about what the shots sounded like prove anything?

It doesn't nor do the divergent recollections of the people you cited. Eye and ear witnesses don't prove anything unless you can corroborate their recollections are accurate. The Z-film would be a good place to start but that tells us a story different from the one you would rather believe.
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His estimation of time is likely poor.

Yes it is, an indication of how badly witnesses can recall an event. If witnesses could reliably recall an event, there would be a clear consensus among the ones you cited but that is clearly the not the case. They vary greatly in their estimate of how closely spaced the last two shots were. But you think that because they all agreed that the last two shots were closer together than the first two, it somehow establishes that as a fact, even though there were other witnesses who said the shots were evenly spaced and still others who said the first two shots were closer together. None of these opinions prove anything except that relying heavily on witnesses is a poor way to determine what happened.
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But even a first shot 9 or 10 seconds before the head shot, which is what you are suggesting, puts the second shot no earlier than z258 according to Sweatt.

So you cite one more unreliable witness to make your point. Why?
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Steve Roe's Second Oral History Interview with the Sixth Floor Museum
« Last post by Fred Litwin on Today at 02:25:14 PM »
Steve Roe's Second Interview with the Sixth Floor Museum

Steve Roe, a good friend of mine, was interviewed by Stephen Fagin of the Sixth Floor Museum.
He had donated a copy of the magazine that contained the ad that Lee Harvey Oswald used to order his .38 Smith & Wesson revolver.

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/steve-roe-s-second-oral-history-interview-with-the-sixth-floor-museum
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Mary Woodward said there were 3 shots and the 1st shot missed everything
« Last post by Andrew Mason on Today at 02:21:52 PM »
Quote from: Tom Graves on Today at 12:52:04 AM
Probably because he mixed the sounds of the shots with their echoes and sorta hallucinated that it was two seconds.
Bob Jackson is 92 and living in Manitou Springs, Colorado. Why don’t you ask him yourself?  Ask him how well he remembers the spacing of the shots.
 
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Okay.

Roger Craig?
Why is that a question?.

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Which proves that even a U.S. Senator can be confused by the echoes of Dealey Plaza.

Secret Service Agents, too.
How does your speculation about what the shots sounded like prove anything?
 
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18 H 747 ?

You meant to say 18 H, CE 1024, page 747.
The correct citation is 18 H 747.  It is from CE1024.

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Seven seconds?
His estimation of time is likely poor. But even a first shot 9 or 10 seconds before the head shot, which is what you are suggesting, puts the second shot no earlier than z258 according to Sweatt.
 
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2) He thought the Secret Service car was "a yellow closed sedan" that was behind LBJ's car!
What colour do yo think it was? It looked yellowish to me in the Hughes film.  It was officially yellow according to Google:


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He also said he saw Oswald walking towards him down the Elm Street sidewalk about five minutes after the assassination.
You don’t think Oswald walked away from the TSBD a few minutes after?
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Mary Woodward said there were 3 shots and the 1st shot missed everything
« Last post by Duncan MacRae on Today at 01:54:41 PM »
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Mary Woodward said there were 3 shots and the 1st shot missed everything
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 12:42:34 PM »
Even among those who thought the last two shots were closer together, there is a wide divergence of opinion as to how close they were.
So much for the reliability of the earwitnesses to accurately recall the spacing of the shots.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: "...It appears something has happened in the motorcade route..."
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 12:39:17 PM »
One sign that this was a recreation and not a recording of the actual broadcast is that there are 16 seconds between the time Pate says, "The President's car is now turning onto Elm Street..." and he says, "...It appears something has happened in the motorcade route...". There is no way there were 16 seconds between JFK's car turning onto Elm St. and the shooting starting. In fact there were only 9.8 seconds from the time Zapruder resumed filming until the headshot.
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General Discussion And Debate (Any Topic) / Re: U.S. And International Politics
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 10:23:00 AM »
From The Romano Report at Substack:

Steve Schmidt, who ran John McCain's 2008 campaign for president, was interviewed on MSNOW. In response to a very general question regarding the Trump presidency, Mr. Schmidt spoke for two minutes and gave the most insightful and brutally honest response of what the Trump presidency has done to our great country:

"Donald Trump has been the worst president this country has ever had. And, I don't say that hyperbolically. He is. But he is a consequential president. And, he has brought this country in three short years to a place of weakness that is simply unimaginable if you were pondering where we are today from the day where Barack Obama left office. And there were a lot of us on that day who were deeply skeptical and very worried about what a Trump presidency would be. But this is a moment of unparalleled national humiliation, of weakness.”

"When you listen to the President, these are the musings of an imbecile. An idiot. And I don't use those words to name call. I use them because they are the precise words of the English language to describe his behavior. His comportment. His actions. We've never seen a level of incompetence, a level of ineptitude so staggering on a daily basis by anybody in the history of the country whose ever been charged with substantial responsibilities.”

"It's just astonishing that this man is president of the United States. The man, the con man, from New York City. Many bankruptcies, failed businesses, a reality show that branded him as something that he never was -- a successful businessman. Well, he's the President of the United States, now, and the man who said he would make the country great again. And he's brought death, suffering, and economic collapse on truly an epic scale. And let's be clear. This isn't happening in every country around the world. This place. Our place. Our home. Our country. The United States. We are the epicenter. We are the place where you're the most likely to die from this disease. We're the ones with the most shattered economy. And we are, because of the fool that sits in the Oval Office behind the Resolute Desk."
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: "...It appears something has happened in the motorcade route..."
« Last post by David Von Pein on Today at 07:02:07 AM »
Here's the complete KBOX Radio "re-creation" audio recording:


If anyone wants to hear 1-and-a-half hours of ACTUAL live KBOX coverage from Nov. 22 and 24, 1963, I have it on my website here:

https://jfk-assassination-as-it-happened.blogspot.com/2015/12/kbox-radio.html
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?
« Last post by Royell Storing on Today at 01:00:46 AM »
Quote from: Brian Doyle on Yesterday at 11:45:59 PM
Holding up a hoop and hurdle for others to jump through does not sound research make...

The person who lacks here the most is the one who has violated his own so-called standards and failed to show the highlight box was anything other than a highlight box...


    Do you know what the title of this thread is?
20
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Mary Woodward said there were 3 shots and the 1st shot missed everything
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 12:52:04 AM »
Quote from: Andrew Mason on Yesterday at 05:27:36 PM
"I would say to me it seemed like 3 or 4 seconds between the first and the second, and between the second and third, well, I guess 2 seconds, they were very close together. It could have been more time between the first and second. I really can't be sure."  -- Pulitizer [sic] Prize winning photographer Robert Jackson

Probably because he mixed the sounds of the shots with their echoes and sorta hallucinated that it was two seconds.

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"Yes, I heard one. Then there was a little bit of time [about five seconds], and then there were two real fast [echo sounds of] bullets together." -- Linda Willis


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"The [echoes of the] second and third shots [made it seem that they] were pretty close together, but there was a short [5-second] lapse there between the first and second shot." -- Luke Mooney

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"Mr. BELIN. And what about between the second and third?

Mr. CRAIG. Not more than 2 seconds. It was—they were real rapid." Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig

Okay.

Roger Craig?

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"After what I took to be about three seconds, another shot boomed out, and after what I took to be one-half the time between the first and second shots (calculated now, this would have put the third shot about one and one-half seconds after the second shot--by my estimate--to me there seemed to be a long time between the first and second shots, a much shorter time between the second and third shots--these were my impressions that day), a third shot was fired." -- U.S. Senator Ralph Yarborough, affidavit)

Which proves that even a U.S. Senator can be confused by the echoes of Dealey Plaza.

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“There was to me about twice as much time between the first and second shots as there was between the second and third shots.” -- Forrest Sorrels [sic]

Secret Service Agents, too.

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“The Presidential vehicle was approximately 200 feet from the underpass when the first shot was fired, followed in quick succession by two more. I would estimate that all three shots were fired within 5 seconds. -- Secret Service Agent William McIntyre


18 H 747 ?

You meant to say 18 H, CE 1024, page 747.

Regardless, he seems to be referring to the second and third shots.

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“I heard a shot and about 7 seconds later another shot and approximately 2 or 3 seconds later a third shot.” -- Sheriff's Deputy Allan Sweatt

Seven seconds?

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“I heard three shots. One, then a slight [five-second] pause, then two [bullet and echo sounds which made them seem] very close together." -- Lee Bowers
 

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“The last two were closer than the first. In other words, it was the first, and then a pause, and then the other two were [either echoes or] real close.” -- Haygood


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“The second shot followed some seconds, a little time elapsed after the first one and followed very quickly by the third one.” -- Crawford.  (He also confirms that the VP security car had completed the turn when the first shot was heard.)

1) Huh? His English is almost as bad as yours.

2) He thought the Secret Service car was "a yellow closed sedan" that was behind LBJ's car!

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"Q: How much time elapsed from the time you heard the second noise until you heard the third noise?

A: When I heard the second noise, the third was followed nearly just right back-to-back. [Kinda like echoes!] It was fired in rapid succession." -- Buell Wesley Frazier, in his 1969 testimony at the Clay Shaw trial.

He also said he saw Oswald walking towards him down the Elm Street sidewalk about five minutes after the assassination.


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And I've made up many more.

We know you have, Andrew.

We know you have.
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