1
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Determining a Timestamp for Darnell
« Last post by Matt Brooks on Today at 07:11:12 PM »Nobody has detailed the route Wiegman took: (1) from the point we see him stumbling/falling on the Bell Film, to, (2) the point we see him standing at the bottom of the Knoll. Point (1) and Point (2) are Not inline. The Wiegman story has always been that he Stopped Filming when he ran Down the knoll. Now, we know that Wiegman was also Not Filming when he moved from point (1) to place him inline with point (2). This expands the Wiegman Tick/Tock. If Wiegman stumbled and then Fell as he moved into position to run down the knoll, this would be additional Tick/Tock.
"Pictures Of The Pain" details that Wiegman saw SA Lem Johns UP the knoll. Is it during the above time frame that Wiegman saw SA Johns? Wiegman claiming to have seen SA Johns UP the knoll, is contrary to Johns claiming that he never left Elm St after jumping out of the LBJ SS Car. For its' initial 30 yrs, the Wiegman Film was ballyhooed as being filmed "continuously". Did Wiegman actually continue filming while he moved between points (1) and (2) and film SA Lem Johns UP the knoll? This possible "lost" footage would also be "lost" Tick/Tock. To this day, NBC has steadfastly refused to release the Original Wiegman film.
We'll just raid NBC's Archives and take it by force by all means.
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General Discussion And Debate (Any Topic) / Re:Donald Trump is a Piece of Uh Oh Uh Oh Uh Oh Uh Oh
« Last post by Michael Capasse on Today at 06:37:17 PM »The "war" is not costing much. Many of those are sunk costs regardless of whether they are engaged in a conflict or floating around the world. The costs are certainly much less than the harm that Iran would cause if they were allowed to develop and use a nuclear weapon. How much did 9/11 eventually cost us because Bill Clinton put politics ahead of taking out bin Laden when he had the chance? I do agree, however, that the overall military budget is not sustainable. Trump's addition is a grain of sand compared to decades long accumulation of debt. Politicians don't want to be the bearer of bad news. They feel as though that they can't get elected stating truths such as the socialist programs at not sustainable given all the spending. How many billions were wasted or stolen in fraud using COVID as a pretext? They will wait until it collapses rather than acknowledge that reforms are necessary.
Hold on. You're not calling it a war? - So, do u prefer conflict?
but not actual war, huh? - Fox News Propaganda is very effective.3
General Discussion And Debate (Any Topic) / Re: Am I the only one...
« Last post by Michael Capasse on Today at 05:50:54 PM »The left opposes the death penalty. Typically, it is leftist judges and organizations that impede the process with countless appeals. Even in red states such as TN, the legal system includes leftist judges and lawyers who look for any excuse to interfere. They only have to find one such judge in the multitude of appeals to create delays. There are leftist organizations dedicated to impeding the death penalty regardless of the circumstances. They oppose it on moral grounds and undermine the legal process.
OK. Who was the leftist judge(s) and organization(s) that impeded this process?
Or is that just some CT phantom leftest ONLY group you make up - like w/ elections and pandemics?
Quote
...I find it very difficult to believe there was not some intent to undermine her execution.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Determining a Timestamp for Darnell
« Last post by Royell Storing on Today at 05:20:03 PM »The opening frame of the Darnell footage is less than 20 seconds after the headshot.
At the time of the opening frame Weigman, is filming the Hesters.
He finishes filming around 17 seconds after the headshot.
Four or five seconds into this footage we see Weigman running down the knoll to where the Newmans are.
Nobody has detailed the route Wiegman took: (1) from the point we see him stumbling/falling on the Bell Film, to, (2) the point we see him standing at the bottom of the Knoll. Point (1) and Point (2) are Not inline. The Wiegman story has always been that he Stopped Filming when he ran Down the knoll. Now, we know that Wiegman was also Not Filming when he moved from point (1) to place him inline with point (2). This expands the Wiegman Tick/Tock. If Wiegman stumbled and then Fell as he moved into position to run down the knoll, this would be additional Tick/Tock.
"Pictures Of The Pain" details that Wiegman saw SA Lem Johns UP the knoll. Is it during the above time frame that Wiegman saw SA Johns? Wiegman claiming to have seen SA Johns UP the knoll, is contrary to Johns claiming that he never left Elm St after jumping out of the LBJ SS Car. For its' initial 30 yrs, the Wiegman Film was ballyhooed as being filmed "continuously". Did Wiegman actually continue filming while he moved between points (1) and (2) and film SA Lem Johns UP the knoll? This possible "lost" footage would also be "lost" Tick/Tock. To this day, NBC has steadfastly refused to release the Original Wiegman film.
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General Discussion And Debate (Any Topic) / Re: Am I the only one...
« Last post by Richard Smith on Today at 04:59:24 PM »I am not arguing against Capitol Punishment
I have no idea what you're muttering on about
The left opposes the death penalty. Typically, it is leftist judges and organizations that impede the process with countless appeals. Even in red states such as TN, the legal system includes leftist judges and lawyers who look for any excuse to interfere. They only have to find one such judge in the multitude of appeals to create delays. There are leftist organizations dedicated to impeding the death penalty regardless of the circumstances. They oppose it on moral grounds and undermine the legal process.
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General Discussion And Debate (Any Topic) / Re:Donald Trump is a Piece of Uh Oh Uh Oh Uh Oh Uh Oh
« Last post by Richard Smith on Today at 04:53:20 PM »...and about $8 trillion++ of that national debt belongs to Donald Trump
How much does his war in Iran cost everyday?
The "war" is not costing much. Many of those are sunk costs regardless of whether they are engaged in a conflict or floating around the world. The costs are certainly much less than the harm that Iran would cause if they were allowed to develop and use a nuclear weapon. How much did 9/11 eventually cost us because Bill Clinton put politics ahead of taking out bin Laden when he had the chance? I do agree, however, that the overall military budget is not sustainable. Trump's addition is a grain of sand compared to decades long accumulation of debt. Politicians don't want to be the bearer of bad news. They feel as though that they can't get elected stating truths such as the socialist programs at not sustainable given all the spending. How many billions were wasted or stolen in fraud using COVID as a pretext? They will wait until it collapses rather than acknowledge that reforms are necessary.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Last post by Michael T. Griffith on Today at 04:17:51 PM »The LNers' replies in this thread are yet another example of the fact that they hold pro-WC witnesses to a much lower standard than they hold anti-WC witnesses. When they're dealing with anti-WC witnesses, they pounce on even the tiniest inconsistencies in their accounts and pretend they've found strong evidence of falsehood or unreliability. They ignore any and all evidence that corroborates the witnesses' accounts. They search far and wide for any prior evidence of character flaws in the witnesses, and if they find any, they cite them as a reason to disbelieve the witnesses' accounts. If an anti-WC witness gave more information in a subsequent account than he/she gave in their first account, LNers pounce on that as an indication of fraud or unreliability, as if everyone always remembers every single relevant detail in their first account of an event.
But, oh, when LNers deal with pro-WC witnesses, they overlook or bend over backward to excuse clear contradictions, outright changes of story, demonstrably impossible claims, failure to mention key information in the first version of their accounts, character flaws, etc., etc.
But, oh, when LNers deal with pro-WC witnesses, they overlook or bend over backward to excuse clear contradictions, outright changes of story, demonstrably impossible claims, failure to mention key information in the first version of their accounts, character flaws, etc., etc.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Everyone is an expert
« Last post by Michael T. Griffith on Today at 03:21:15 PM »https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/this-is-how-the-kennedy-assassination-actually-unfolded/vi-AA24beTn?ocid=msedgntp&pc=EDBBAN&cvid=6ac3d82aee6245dfb67324114522f194&ei=17
Although the title of the above video indicates this is about the JFKA, the clown doing the narration spends most of the video talking about the history of security measures for presidential motorcades and little time on the JFKA. Only the first 45 seconds and the time from about 10:00 and 12:00 are devoted to the JFKA. During that brief time, the narrator makes several dubious statements, the most glaring is that the Secret Service should have inspected every floor of every tall building along the motorcade route. This statement is laughable on the surface. Does this bozo have any idea how much manpower would have been required to do that and how long it would have taken. And what good would that have done? Even if the Secret Service had inspected the TSBD earlier that morning, how would that have prevented Oswald from shooting JFK? The only way that would be effective is if personnel had been deployed on every floor of every tall building along the motorcade route. That literally would have taken a small army to secure every possible sniper location along the route. Not only would that have been required in Dallas, but in every other city JFK rode in a motorcade during his roughly 1000 day presidency. The claim was made by a guy who was trying to sound smart, and failing badly.
The last sentence applies perfectly to your post.
Even a newly hired Secret Service official should have realized that, if nothing else, at least the tall buildings in the plaza where the motorcade would have to slow down to make two hairpin turns needed to be checked and monitored. At a minimum, the SS should have asked Dallas police officials to have some of their officers scan the windows of the four tall buildings in Dealey Plaza as the motorcade approached the plaza and while the motorcade was moving through the plaza. This would not have required "a small army" but no more than 12 officers, with three officers assigned to scan the windows of each of the plaza's four tall buildings.
In 1963, the Secret Service routinely asked local police to scan tall buildings along motorcade routes, but this was not done in the case of the Dallas motorcade. This was one of the many suspicious deviations from SS standard procedure that occurred in Dallas. Even the WC admitted that the "usual practice" of the SS official who was in charge of security arrangements for presidential motorcades, Winston Lawson, was to ask local police to scan the windows of buildings along motorcade routes. The WC also admitted that just covering "the most obvious points of possible ambush" along the motorcade route "might well have included" the TSBD:
Admittedly, protective measures cannot ordinarily be taken with regard to all buildings along a motorcade route. Levels of risk can be determined, however, as has been confirmed by building surveys made since the assassination for the Department of the Treasury. An attempt to cover only the most obvious points of possible ambush along the route in Dallas might well have included the Texas School Book Depository Building.
Instead of such advance precautions, the Secret Service depended in part on the efforts of local law enforcement personnel stationed along the route. In addition, Secret Service agents riding in the motorcade were trained to scan buildings as part of their general observation of the crowd of spectators. These substitute measures were of limited value. Agent Lawson was unable to state whether he had actually instructed the Dallas police to scan windows of buildings lining the motorcade route, although it was his usual practice to do so. If such instructions were in fact given, they were not effectively carried out. Television films taken of parts of the motorcade by a Dallas television station show the foot patrolmen facing the passing motorcade, and not the adjacent crowds and buildings, as the procession passed.
Three officers from the Dallas Police Department were assigned to the intersection of Elm and Houston during the morning of November 22 prior to the motorcade. All received their instructions early in the morning from Capt. P. W. Lawrence of the traffic division. . . .
Captain Lawrence was not instructed to have his men watch buildings along the motorcade route and did not mention the observation of buildings to them. The three officers confirm that their primary concern was crowd and traffic control, and that they had no opportunity to scan the windows of the Depository or any other building in the vicinity of Elm and Houston when the motorcade was passing. (Warren Report, pp. 448-449)
I take it you have not read any of Vince Palamara's research on JFK's SS protection nor watched any of his videos on the subject.
For any newcomers or silent readers, I recommend reading Palamara's book Survivor's Guilt: The Secret Service and the Failure to Protect President Kennedy. My book A Comforting Lie: The Myth That a Lone Gunman Killed President Kennedy includes a long chapter on Kennedy's inexcusably and suspiciously weak SS protection in Dallas, including numerous photos that show that in other motorcades (1) SS agents rode on the limousine's side boards and/or rear boards or walked alongside the limo and (2) local police motorcycles traveled alongside the limo, neither of which was done in Dealey Plaza.
I also recommend Palamara's video Uniquely Insecure: The Tragic Failure of the Secret Service on November 22, 1963.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
« Last post by Mark A. Oblazney on Today at 02:56:19 PM »Well i see the united world federalists and the tech bros (with a token woman or two) coming together
and cancelling the CCP. you heard it here first !
Nice history lesson there, by the way.
and cancelling the CCP. you heard it here first !
Nice history lesson there, by the way.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Jack Nessan on Today at 02:48:51 PM »There were different sets of chicken bones
This is a falsehood you've been corrected on before. It's something you made up out of thin air.
There was one set of chicken bones on the 6th floor.
Studebaker is adamant about this specific point.
Mr. BALL. That's the sack, is that right?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And it shows - it has some chicken bones in it?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Any chicken bones in any other place?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No.
Mr. BALL. None outside the sack?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No; they were all inside the sack, wrapped up and put right back In. It had a little piece of Fritos in the sack, too.
I know this won't make any difference to you.
I feel confident you will carry on posting the same falsehood even when the evidence proves you wrong.
Unfortunately, Studebaker was not looking for evidence, he was being directed to it by the detectives.
Exactly how do you fingerprint a chicken bone? You left the part out where Studebaker states he did not know of any. Not that is not the same as there weren’t any. He was being directed to them not searching for them himself. Others decided how important the evidence was.
You do not seem to know this but there were spots that pieces of chicken were noted by the various detectives. Actually, not knowing is a good description of your understanding of the various aspects of the assassination.
Mr. BALL. Now, did you see a chicken bone over near the boxes in the south-east corner, over near where you found the cartridges and the paper sack? Mr.
Mr. STUDEBAKER. I don't believe there was one there.
Mr. BALL. You didn't see any. One witness, a deputy sheriff named Luke Mooney said he found a piece of chicken partly eaten up on top of one of the boxes; did you see anything like that?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No.
It doesn't mean it wasn't there, it means he did not see it because the other detectives did see it.
Mr. BALL. Was anything like that called to your attention?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. I can't recall anything like that. It ought to be in one of these pictures, if it is.
Givens told Shelley he was eating a chicken sandwich on the 6th floor that day. You think Givens purposely lied about it. Givens told Shelley before the assassination.
Mr. BALL - Now you say that you thought that you had seen someone had eaten fried chicken that morning?
Mr. SHELLEY - I thought I had; those colored boys are always eating chicken.
Mr. BALL - Do you think you did or do you know?
Mr. SHELLEY - I asked Charles Givens whether it was him that was eating and he said it was a sandwich.
Mr. BALL - Was that before you went down for lunch?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir; it was pretty early in the morning, about 9:30.
Mr. BALL - Where was it?
Mr. SHELLEY - It was two-thirds across the building toward the west because I didn't put plywood over there and he didn't get too far from where we were actually working.
Obviously, Givens had his lunch sack with him.
Chicken bones story
Shelley
Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody eating fried chicken on that floor that morning?
Mr. SHELLEY - At one time I think I said I did but Charles Givens was the guy that was eating and he was further on over toward the west side and he was eating a sandwich so he says.
Mr. BALL - Now you say that you thought that you had seen someone had eaten fried chicken that morning?
Mr. SHELLEY - I thought I had; those colored boys are always eating chicken.
Mr. BALL - Do you think you did or do you know?
Mr. SHELLEY - I asked Charles Givens whether it was him that was eating and he said it was a sandwich.
Mr. BALL - Was that before you went down for lunch?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir; it was pretty early in the morning, about 9:30.
Mr. BALL - Where was it?
Mr. SHELLEY - It was two-thirds across the building toward the west because I didn't put plywood over there and he didn't get too far from where we were actually working.
Chicken Bone Story as compiled by Colin Crow
Two lunches. There was BRW’s lunch with a pop bottle and Fritos bag right where he stated it was located, 3rd aisle. In addition, there was a single piece of chicken on a carton used as a barricade with an explanation from Mr. Shelley.
Mr. BALL - Now you say that you thought that you had seen someone had eaten fried chicken that morning?
Mr. SHELLEY - I thought I had; those colored boys are always eating chicken
Bonnie Ray Williams stated that he ate his lunch near the windows on the south side of the sixth floor.
The place where BRW ate his lunch and the remains of his lunch were found
Luke Mooney was first on the scene of the SN. His initial report mentions the lunch.
COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY
Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney, Dallas County Sheriff's Department.
Date: November 23 1963
I was standing in front of the Sheriff's office at 505 Main Street, Dallas, When President Kennedy and the motorcade passed by. Within a few seconds after he had passed me and the motorcade had turned the corner I heard a shot and I immediately started running towards the front of the motorcade and within seconds heard a second and a third shot. I started running across Houston Street and down across the lawn to the triple underpass and up the terrace to the railroad yards. I searched along with many other officers, this area, when Sheriff Bill Decker came up and told me and the Officers Sam Webster and Billy Joe Vickery to surround the Texas School Book Depository building. As we approached the two big steel wire gates to the building dock at the back of the building on Elm Street side, we saw that the loading dock had locks on it and I then pulled the steel gates closed and requested of a citizen standing there to see that no-one came out or went in until I could get a uniformed officer there, which he did. Officers Webster, Victory, and myself took to the building. Officers Webster and Victory took the stairs and I told them I would take the freight elevator. At the time I got on the elevator two women who work in the building got on the elevator, saying they wanted to go to their office. As the elevator started up, we went up one floor and the power to the elevator was cut off. I got out on the floor with these women and looked around in their office and I then took to the stairs and went to the 6th floor, and Officers Webster and Vickery went up to the 7th floor. I was the only person on the 6th floor when I searched it and was reasonably sure that there was no one else on this floor as I searched it and then criss-crossed it, seeing only stacks of cartons of books. I was at that time also checking for open windows and fire escapes. I found where someone had been using a skill saw in laying some flooring in one corner of this floor and I then went to the 7th floor and was assisting in searching it out and crawled into the attic opening and decided it was too dark and came down to order flash lights. I then went on back to the 6th floor and went direct to the far corner and then discovered a cubby hole which had been constructed out of cartons which protected it from sight and found where someone had been in an area of perhaps 2 feet surrounded by cardboard cartons of books. Inside this cubby hole affair was three more boxes so arranged as to provide what appeared to be a rest for a rifle. On one of these cartons was a half-eaten piece of chicken. The minute that I saw the expended shells on the floor, I hung my head out of the half opened window and signalled to Sheriff Bill Decker and Captain Will Fritz who were outside the building and advised them to send up the Crime Lab Officers at once that I had located the area from which the shots had been fired. At this time, Officers Webster, Victory, and McCurley came over to this spot and we guarded this spot until Crime Lab Officers got upstairs within a matter of a few minutes. We then turned this area over to Captain Fritz and his officers for processing. At this time I continued to search this 6th floor along with many other officers and within a few minutes, I heard Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone holler out that he had found the rifle near the staircase between some rows of cartons. We continued to search the building for a suspect.
McCurley's Report
Officer A. D. McCurley, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Office (Statement 11/22/63)
Officer Jack Faulkner and I, together with several other City officers went to the building and started checking the floors. We were searching the 6th floor when Deputy Sheriff Mooney, who was also on the 6th floor, hollered that he had found the place where the assassin had fired from. I went over and saw 3 expended shells laying by the window that faced onto Elm Street, along with a half-eaten piece of chicken that was laying on a cardboard carton. It appeared as if the assassin had piled up a bunch of boxes to hide from the view of anyone who happened to come up on that floor and had arranged 3 other cartons of books next to the window as though to make a rifle rest. This area was roped off and guarded until Captain Will Fritz of Dallas Police Department Homicide Bureau arrived. It was about this same time that Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boone yelled that he had found the rifle which had been placed between some rows of cardboard boxes near the staircase which leads down to the 5th floor.
Officer Jack Faulkner
There were also some chicken bones. Evidently he had chicken for his lunch. There were people that worked with him that had left maybe at noon. I don't know where they went because I didn't investigate that part of it. I've also heard of a bag which carried the rifle, but I never saw that. It could have been there, but I didn't notice it.
From "No More Silence: An Oral History of the Assassination of President Kennedy" - Larry A. Sneed
Officer Roger Craig, Deputy Sheriff
Mr. BELIN - About how soon after they were found did you see them, laying on the floor?
Mr. CRAIG - Oh, a couple of minutes. I went right on over there. I was at the far north end of the building. The cartridges were on the southeast corner.
Mr. BELIN - Well, how did you know they had been found there? Did someone yell---or what?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes; someone yelled across the room that "here's the shells."
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember who that was?
Mr. CRAIG - No; I couldn't recognize the voice.
Mr. BELIN - All right. Then, what did you do?
Mr. CRAIG - I went over there and--uh--didn't get too close because the shells were laying on the ground and there was--uh--oh, a sack and a bunch of things laying over there. So, you know, not to bother the area, I just went back across.
Mr. BELIN - Now, you say there was a sack laying there?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes; I believe it was laying on top of a box, if I'm not mistaken.
Mr. BELIN - How big a sack was that?
Mr. CRAIG - It was a paper bag (indicating with hands)--a small paper bag.
Mr. BELIN - Well, the kind-of paper bag that you carry your lunch in?
Mr. CRAIG - Yeah,--uh-huh.
Gerald Hill also recalls the finding of the SN and the Chicken Leg and Bag of top of the SN Boxes
Mr. HILL. We hadn't been there but a minute until someone yelled, "Here it is," or words to that effect.
I moved over and found they had found an area where the boxes had been stacked in sort of a triangle shape with three sides over near the window.
Mr. BELIN. What did you see over there?
Mr. HILL. There was the boxes. The boxes were stacked in sort of a three-sided shield.
That would have concealed from general view, unless somebody specifically walked up and looked over them, anyone who was in a sitting or crouched position between them and the window. In front of this window and to the left or east corner of the window, there were two boxes, cardboard boxes that had the words "Roller books," on them.
On top of the larger stack of boxes that would have been used for concealment, there was a chicken leg bone and a paper sack which appeared to have been about the size normally used for a lunch sack. I wouldn't know what the sizes were. It was a sack, I would say extended, it would probably be 12 inches high, 10 inches long, and about 4 inches thick.
At this point, I asked the deputy sheriff to guard the scene, not to let anybody touch anything, and I went over still further west to another window about the middle of the building on the south side and yelled down to the street for them to send us the crime lab.
Harry Weatherford
The 11-23-63 report of Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford notes "I came down to the 6th floor, and while searching this floor, Deputy Luke Mooney said "here are some shells." I went over to where he was and saw 3 expended rifle shells, a sack on the floor and a partially eaten piece of chicken on top of one of the cartons which was used as a sort of barricade."
Officer Brewer
Mr. BELIN. Did you go and take a look at the cartridge cases?
Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How many cartridge cases did you see?
Mr. BREWER. Three.
Mr. BELIN. Where were they?
Mr. BREWER. They were there under, by the window.
Mr. BELIN. What window?
Mr. BREWER. In the southeast corner of the building, facing south.
Mr. BELIN. See anything else there at the time by the window?
Mr. BREWER. Paper lunch sack and some chicken bones or partially eaten piece of chicken, or a piece at chicken.
Officer Haygood
Mr. BELIN. You saw some shells there?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Where did you see them?
Mr. HAYGOOD. They were there under the window.
Mr. BELIN. Which window?
Mr. HAYGOOD. On the southeast corner.
Mr. BELIN. South side or east side?
Mr. HAYGOOD. On the southeast corner facing south.
Mr. BELIN. See any paper bags or anything around there?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Yes; there was a lunch bag there. You could call it a lunch bag.
Mr. BALL. Where was that?
Mr. HAYGOOD. There at the same location where the shells were.
Eugene Boone
Mentions seeing the chicken before discovering the rifle in his Oral History with the 6th Floor Museum.
-----------------------------
BRW describing his location
Mr. WILLIAMS. ...So I decided to move to a two-wheeler.
Mr. BALL. A two-wheeler truck, you mean?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I remember sitting on this two-wheeler. By that time, I was through, and I got up and I just left then.
Mr. HILL. There was the boxes. The boxes were stacked in sort of a three-sided shield.
That would have concealed from general view, unless somebody specifically walked up and looked over them, anyone who was in a sitting or crouched position between them and the window. In front of this window and to the left or east corner of the window, there were two boxes, cardboard boxes that had the words "Roller books," on them.
On top of the larger stack of boxes that would have been used for concealment. there was a chicken leg bone and a paper sack which appeared to have been about the size normally used for a lunch sack. I wouldn't know what the sizes were. It was a sack, I would say extended, it would probably be 12 inches high, 10 inches long, and about 4 inches thick.
Then, on the floor near the baseboard or against the baseboard of the south wall of the building, in front of the second window, in front of the, well, we would have to say second window from the east corner, were three spent shells.
This is actually the jacket that holds the powder and not the slug. At this point, I asked the deputy sheriff to guard the scene, not to let anybody touch anything, and I went over still further west to another window about the middle of the building on the south side and yelled down to the street for them to send us the crime lab. Not knowing or not getting any indication from the street
There was clearly two locations where remnants of chicken were found. The two detectives charged with preserving the area describe first the lunch left by BR Williams,
Mr. JOHNSON. Now you got to remember he told L. D. Montgomery, my partner, and I to preserve the scene, and we remained there near that corner.
Now over to the right, which would be back toward the west of the window, there was a lunch sack--a brown paper bag--and some remnants of fried chicken, and a pop bottle.
And I stayed closer to that pop bottle while we were waiting for the crime lab to finish their work.
Mr. BELIN. Now there was a sack and a pop bottle. Was there anything else other than the sack and the pop bottle?
Mr. JOHNSON. And the remnants of fried chicken.
Mr. BELIN. The remnants of fried chicken, was that right by that window, or was it by another set of windows?
Mr. JOHNSON. That was by some other window.
Mr. BELIN. Now there are, I believe, on the south side of the building, seven pairs of windows?
Mr. JOHNSON. I didn't count them. I couldn't say.
Mr. BELIN. Would you say it was toward the east, or the west, or the center?
Mr. JOHNSON. Where the sack was?
Mr. BELIN. Yes.
Mr. JOHNSON. It would be toward the west. I believe the next set of windows to my--I am pretty sure it was.
102
Mr. BELIN. You said it would be in the second pair of windows counting from the east wall?
Mr. JOHNSON. To the west.
Mr. BELIN. Is where you found it, was it between the second and the third set of windows or between the first and the second, or right by the second?
Mr. JOHNSON. Right by the second pair of windows.
Mr. BELIN. Now you stayed over there?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. And your partner, Detective Montgomery, stayed over by the first pair of windows?
Mr. JOHNSON. By the corner.
Mr. BELIN. By the corner window, southwest corner of the sixth floor?
Were you there when Lieutenant Day and Studebaker came in to take pictures?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know of your own personal knowledge whether anything prior to the time that they took the first set of pictures up had been moved there?
Mr. JOHNSON. No, sir; as far as I know, they hadn't been moved. They weren't supposed to have been, and that was our job to keep them out of there, and nobody came in there, I am pretty sure
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Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, sir, as I say, there was a lot of boxes and there was a sack and there was this pieces of chicken.
Mr. BALL. Was there a piece of chicken over there?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes, sir--there was chicken bones and what not--it looked like somebody had been eating chicken there.
Mr. BALL. Where was that?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. It was right there with the boxes---right there on the floor.
Mr. BALL On the floor?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. All right.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, let me see, there was one piece of chicken on a box and there was a piece on the floor--just kind of scattered around right there.
Mr. BALL. Where was the paper sack?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Let's see--the paper sack--I don't recall for sure if it was on the floor or on the box, but I know it was just there----one of those pictures might show exactly where it was.
Mr. BALL. I don't have a picture of the paper sack.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. You don't? Well, it was there--I can't recall for sure if it was on one of the boxes or on the floor there.
Mr. BALL. It was over in what corner?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. It would be the southeast corner of the building there where the shooting was.
Mr. BALL. Did you turn the sack over to anybody or did you pick it up?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes---let's see Lieutenant Day and Detective Studebaker came up and took pictures and everything, and then we took a Dr. Pepper bottle and that sack that we found that looked like the rifle was wrapped up in.
Mr. BALL. Now, where was the Dr. Pepper bottle?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. It was over a little more to the west of that window.
Mr. BALL. There was a sack of chicken bones with that--near that Dr. Pepper bottle?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; the Dr. Pepper bottle, the best I can recall, was sitting over there by itself.
Mr. BALL. Where was the sack with the chicken in it?
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Mr. MONTGOMERY. It was right around where the boxes were--where the hulls there were.
Mr. BALL. The picture was taken of the sack by Mr. Studebaker, and he said it was the third set of windows near the little two-wheel truck?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Over there by the Dr. Pepper bottle.
Mr. BALL. Correct.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I was thinking it was right there--it was probably that sack I'm thinking about---the one we found on the floor there that was used.
Mr. BALL. Here are two pictures, which are Exhibits H and I in the Studebaker depositions, which show the paper sack and the Dr. Pepper bottle and a two-wheel truck, and that is in Exhibit H, and Exhibit I shows the Dr. Pepper bottle and a two-wheel truck.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Is this the sack right here, now?
Mr. BALL. That's right--do you remember that?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I don't remember the sack being right there--I remember it was there somewhere, but exactly--I don't.
Mr. BALL. Evidently you don't know?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, was there some more chicken some place there also?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes--there would be some more chicken over here around where the hulls were found.
Mr. BALL. Now, I will show you a picture of----
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I know there was one piece laying up on top of the box there.
Mr. BALL. I show you a picture which is Exhibit J, which shows some boxes in the picture that's in the southeast corner there.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Can you tell me where the chicken was?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I believe it was right up on these boxes right along in there. There's some boxes coming along in there.
Mr. BALL. Coming along in there you mean it's outside of the view of the pictures?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes, sir; right along in here.
Mr. BALL. And that would be to the north, of that point?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And what did you see on top of those boxes?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. There was one piece of chicken there.
Mr. BALL. Partially eaten?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes; I believe it was partially eaten---on that picture right there I was just looking at.
Mr. BALL. That's Exhibit J.
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It is to bad you are having a hard time accepting the fact there was two lunches, two places the chicken bones were found. Exactly the way Shelley described others eating chicken during the day. There was BRW’s lunch with a pop bottle and Fritos bag right where he stated it was located, 3rd aisle. In addition, there was a single piece of chicken on a carton used as a barricade with an explanation from Mr. Shelley. Not one of these officers' statements mention the frito bag or pop bottle with the chicken remnants on the barricade box
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I have no idea what you're muttering on about