1
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: LHO and Cuban Intelligence
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 05:24:28 AM »The second official investigation into the JFKA, HSCA-1979, concluded otherwise, and found the LNT un-compelling, or implausible.
There were a lot of smart and skeptical guys on the HSCA, and they were not "CIA did it" CT'ers, or head-in-the-sand LNT'ers.
They concluded likely LHO was not the only gunsel on 11.22.
I agree with their assessment.
LOL!
2
General Discussion And Debate (Any Topic) / Re: Am I the only one...
« Last post by Michael Capasse on Today at 04:30:43 AM »Capital punishment cases are largely appealed through the federal court system and attorneys have learned how to delay executions not for years but for decades with appeal after appeal. Recent executions have been for murders committed 25 to 30 years ago. That is a ridiculous amount of time. By contrast, Perry Smith and Dick Hickock murdered four members of the Clutter family in November of 1959. They were captured and tried in 1960 and hanged in April of 1965. Five years seems like plenty of time for appeals to be filed and work their way through the appellate courts. Those sentenced to the death penalty should be given one bite of the apple in appealing their sentences. They should be required to file all of their objections to their conviction and sentencing in one appeal. After those appeals are denied, the only grounds for putting off their date with the executioner would be if they can present compelling evidence they were wrongly convicted.
Let's bring back the electric chair, the gas chamber, hangman's noose, or the firing squad. Let each state should choose the method of execution without concern for whether we kill these Barstewards humanely. They never gave their victims that consideration.
I am not arguing against Capitol Punishment
Don't know what you are talking about3
General Discussion And Debate (Any Topic) / Re: Am I the only one...
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 04:11:22 AM »what does that have to do with what just happened in Tenn?
It's a red state
Capital punishment cases are largely appealed through the federal court system and attorneys have learned how to delay executions not for years but for decades with appeal after appeal. Recent executions have been for murders committed 25 to 30 years ago. That is a ridiculous amount of time. By contrast, Perry Smith and Dick Hickock murdered four members of the Clutter family in November of 1959. They were captured and tried in 1960 and hanged in April of 1965. Five years seems like plenty of time for appeals to be filed and work their way through the appellate courts. Those sentenced to the death penalty should be given one bite of the apple in appealing their sentences. They should be required to file all of their objections to their conviction and sentencing in one appeal. After those appeals are denied, the only grounds for putting off their date with the executioner would be if they can present compelling evidence they were wrongly convicted.
Let's bring back the electric chair, the gas chamber, hangman's noose, or the firing squad. Let each state should choose the method of execution without concern for whether we kill these Barstewards humanely. They never gave their victims that consideration.
4
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: LHO and Cuban Intelligence
« Last post by Benjamin Cole on Today at 04:00:23 AM »The second official investigation into the JFKA, HSCA-1979, concluded otherwise, and found the LNT un-compelling, or implausible.
There were a lot of smart and skeptical guys on the HSCA, and they were not "CIA did it" CT'ers, or head-in-the-sand LNT'ers.
They concluded likely LHO was not the only gunsel on 11.22.
I agree with their assessment.
There were a lot of smart and skeptical guys on the HSCA, and they were not "CIA did it" CT'ers, or head-in-the-sand LNT'ers.
They concluded likely LHO was not the only gunsel on 11.22.
I agree with their assessment.
The "LNT'" is that the evidence is overwhelming that Oswald was the assassin and the evidence is non-existent that he had any accomplices. Both of those are facts.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The Miracle On Elm Street
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 03:56:50 AM »Do you believe Arnold Rowland saw the man with the rifle at the west end of the 6th floor?
I don't know if he did or not. I know that even if he did, that does nothing to exonerate Oswald. Oswald might have been scouting possible shooting locations for the best possible angle. He could have been contemplating taking a shot from the west end window after the limo turned on to Elm St. He had plenty of time to look over the situation before deciding what his best option was. I'd say he ended up making a very good choice.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 03:51:17 AM »I answered the challenge.
You asked for a plausible alternative explanation that accounted for your so-called list of evidence and that's exactly what I did.
The WCR wins by default.
That's what this is for you, isn't it - a competition.
What a child you are.
What a dumba$$ you are. I gave you 11 pieces of evidence to explain and your vague one sentence answer that Oswald was framed using his rifle hardly explained those 11 pieces of evidence. You didn't bother to explain how the conspirators got Oswald's rifle. You didn't explain how they got Oswald to bring a long paper bag into work that day. You don't explain how Oswald's palm and finger prints got on the bag. You didn't explain why fibers matching Oswald's rifle blanket ended in the bag. You didn't explain how fibers matching Oswald's shirt end up on the butt plate of the rifle. You didn't bother to explain why Oswald's fingerprints ended up on the boxes that were stacked to form a rifle rest oriented exactly how they would be if Oswald was facing down Elm St. You didn't bother to explain how the conspirators ensured Oswald wouldn't be seen elsewhere at the time the shots were fired. Just a simpleton statement that Oswald's rifle was used to frame him, with no evidence whatsoever that somebody else had used that rifle to kill JFK. Just crazy stuff you have imagined as an excuse to deny the overwhelming evidence of Oswald's guilt.
It's easy to conjure up a vague alternative story to the one the WCR presented. The devil is in the details and you have provided none. The WCR's narrative addressed all of the 11 items and a whole lot more. If we were to give you a grade for your effort, it would be an incomplete.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Last post by Dan O'meara on Today at 12:29:16 AM »As is SOP for CTs, you completely fail the challenge to present an alternative narrative that explains the body of evidence and instead choose to use the diversion of attacking the WC narrative. The reason the CTs ALWAYS resort to this tactic is because they know there is no plausible alternative explanation of the evidence. The WCR wins by default.
I answered the challenge.
You asked for a plausible alternative explanation that accounted for your so-called list of evidence and that's exactly what I did.
The WCR wins by default.
That's what this is for you, isn't it - a competition.
What a child you are.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The Miracle On Elm Street
« Last post by Dan O'meara on Today at 12:27:05 AM »I believe you focus on silly stuff and ignore what is important.
Do you believe Arnold Rowland saw the man with the rifle at the west end of the 6th floor?
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: How Do LNers Deal With Givens?
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 12:26:44 AM »There is no single piece of evidence that BY ITSELF places Oswald in the sniper's nest when the shots were fired.
I've not bothered reading past this opening line as I've no doubt it's the usual WC arselicking nothingness.
You previously posted - "There is ample evidence that Oswald was in the sniper's nest at 12:30"
There is no evidence that Oswald was in the SN at 12:30.
It's good to see you back-tracking on this nonsense and throwing Tim under the bus at the same time.
As I had to inform Tim, your interpretation of the select pieces of evidence you choose to interpret is your interpretation. And that's all it is.
The assumptions you draw from this interpretation are just your assumptions. And that's all they are.
Your theory is your theory.
Jumping up and down and insisting it's a fact, like some petulant child, means nothing.
LATER EDIT: I couldn't resist and read your post.
I'm so glad I did or I would have missed the challenge:
give us a PLAUSIBLE alternative explanation that takes into account all of the evidence below.
Oswald was framed using his own rifle.
That's why the eye-witnesses described a man wearing clothes Oswald wasn't wearing and didn't own.
It's why Euins described the shooter having a distinctive bald spot on top of his head which he could only see when the shooter tilted his head to look down the rifle. This would require the shooter to tilt his head to the left demonstrating he was a left-handed shooter - which Oswald wasn't.
Euins also failed to notice a telescopic sight on the rifle even though he described it in detail and recalled the shooter taking aim down the rifle.
Brennan, the only other witness who saw the rifle while it was being used, also failed to notice a telescopic sight.
Reportedly, Oswald stated he was on the first floor having lunch in the Domino Room when he saw Junior Jarman and Hank Norman. Thanks to the testimonies of Jarman and Norman we know the only time this would have been possible was after they entered the back door of the TSBD building around 12:23pm
And that's before getting into all the evidence demonstrating how the Warren Commission fabricated and omitted evidence in order to create a false narrative regarding what took place on the 6th floor before the assassination - the subject of this thread.
As is SOP for CTs, you completely fail the challenge to present an alternative narrative that explains the body of evidence and instead choose to use the diversion of attacking the WC narrative. The reason the CTs ALWAYS resort to this tactic is because they know there is no plausible alternative explanation of the evidence. The WCR wins by default.
10
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The Miracle On Elm Street
« Last post by John Corbett on Today at 12:20:11 AM »I had to start this thread in response to something a Nutter posted on another thread insinuating that Arnold Rowland made up seeing the man with the rifle on the 6th floor of the TSBD building.
Of all the crazy things the Warren Commission has forced Nutters to believe this has to be right up there.
Barbara Rowland confirms her husband's account of seeing the man with the rifle at the southwestern end of the 6th floor of the TSBD building:
Mrs. ROWLAND. Well, my husband and I were talking about Mr. Stevenson’s visit and the way the people had acted, and we were talking about security measures, and he said he saw a man on the sixth floor of the School Book
Depository Building, and when I looked up there I didn’t see the man, because I didn’t know exactly what window he was talking about at first. And when I found out which window it was, the man had apparently stepped
back, because I didn’t see him.
Mr. BELIN. Which window was it?
Mrs. ROWLAND. It was the far left-hand window.
Mr. BELIN. As you face the building?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. It would be the window to the south side of the building?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Would it be on the eastern part of the south side or the western part of the south side?
Mrs. ROWLAND. West.
Mr. BELIN. Would it be the farthermost west window?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Yes; the farthermost west pair of windows.
Mr. BELIN. The farthermost west pair of windows. What did your husband say to you?
Mrs. ROWLAND. Well, we assumed that it was a Secret Service man.
Mr. BELIN. But what did he say, if you remember?
Mrs. ROWLAND. He told me that he saw a man there who looked like he was holding a rifle, and that it must be a security man guarding the motorcade.
In the immediate aftermath of the shooting Rowland ran around telling every law enforcement officer he could find about the man with the rifle. He told three or four officials about this man before he gave his affidavit:
"...We stood there for a time talking about the security measures that were being made for the president’s visit in view of the recent trouble when Mr. Adelai Stevenson had been a recent visitor to Dallas. It must have been 5 or 10 minutes later when we were just looking at the surrounding buildings when I looked up at the Texas Book...building and noticed that the second floor from the top had two adjoining windows which were open, and upon looking I saw what I thought was a man standing back about 15 feet from the windows and was holding in his arms what appeared to be a hi powered rifle because it looked like it had a scope on it.
He appeared to be holding this at a parade rest sort of position. I mentioned this to my wife and merely made the remark that it must be the secret service men.
This man appeared to be a white man and appeared to have a light colored shirt on, open at the neck. He appeared to be of slender build and appeared to have dark hair. In about 15 minutes President Kennedy passed the spot where we were standing and the motorcade had just turned west on Elm heading down the hill when I heard a noise which I thought to be a back fire."
To imagine that Rowland invented this sighting is beyond belief as it would require the almost miraculous coincidence of him inventing a man (whose description closely matches that of other eyewitnesses) carrying a scoped, high-powered rifle on the 6th floor of the TSBD building.
What are the chances Rowland making up a white, slender male carrying a scoped, high-powered rifle on the 6th floor and it turns out that's exactly what happened?
ROLL UP, ROLL UP NUTTERS.
LET'S HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS MATTER.
DON'T BE SHY.
DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE MIRACLE ON ELM STREET?
I believe you focus on silly stuff and ignore what is important.
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