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1
I'm sure readers have noticed that WC apologists, as evidenced by Tim Nickerson's labored and errant replies, still have not been able to explain the fact that the back-wound bullet could not have come from the sixth-floor window unless JFK had been leaning markedly forward when the missile struck, and that no photo or frame shows JFK's head tilted anywhere near that far forward, if at all.

Incredibly, Nickerson can't even admit what the HSCA's SBT diagram plainly shows, and he's still erroneously denying that Rydberg drew CE 385 under Humes's direct and point-by-point supervision, even though Humes and Rydberg themselves made this clear. I find it amazing that Nickerson actually cites Humes's descriptions of the back wound to support the claim that the wound was in the neck and not in the back, never mind the bullet holes in the rear of JFK's clothing, never mind the autopsy photo of the back wound, never mind the autopsy face sheet, never mind the "certified" death certificate, and never mind the HSCA FPP's SBT diagram. I see Nickerson even resorts to the ridiculous bunched-clothing theory, ignoring the fact that no photo or frame shows the jacket bunched nearly enough to make the holes align with a wound several inches higher, and ignoring the fact that Willis slide 5, taken much closer to the moment of impact, shows the jacket virtually flat on JFK's back.

This thread is a great example of the fact that WC apologists have largely ignored the HSCA FPP's findings about the back wound's location (slightly below the throat wound or, at the most, level with it) and the bullet's upward trajectory. In their various and conflicting SBT diagrams/animations, WC defenders always (1) have JFK sitting upright with his head held upright or tilted only slightly forward, (2) have the bullet traveling downward through the neck.

It is worth remembering that Dr. Werner Spitz, a prominent forensic pathologist who served on the RC's medical panel and on the HSCA FPP, informed the RC in 1975 that there was "no doubt" that the back-wound bullet hit the back "in a sharply upward direction" and that it traveled "upwards within the body":

There is no doubt that the bullet which struck the President’s back penetrated the skin in a sharply upward direction, as is evident from the width of the abrasion at the lower half of the bullet wound of entrance. The term "sharply upward direction" is used because it is evident from this injury that the missile traveled upwards within the body. (Report of Werner Spitz, 4/24/75, p. 1, Rockefeller Commission papers)

Spitz was either unaware that these facts destroyed the SBT or he dismissed as irrelevant all the photos and footage taken of JFK during the SBT's timeframe. Ditto for Dr. Baden when he demonstrated in the 1988 NOVA JFKA documentary that the alleged magic bullet's trajectory would have been upward through the neck and that this trajectory could only align with the sixth-floor window if JFK had been leaning markedly forward when the bullet struck.



The Clark Panel measured the entry wound to be 5.5 cm below that transverse fold in the skin of the neck. The HSCA's FPP measured it to be 6 cm below the skin fold. Going but what you see in that photo above, place a mark on the back in the lateral view below at the level that you believe that the wound was at. The yellow line represents my own determination of the approximate wound entry level and subsequent downward path of the bullet to the throat wound. The photo is not a diagram or an animation. It's an actual photograph of the body of Kennedy.



2
In my opinion Israel has to answer for their involvement just like anyone else and anti-semitism baiting doesn't change that...CIA clearly uses Israel as a wedge and that relationship is behind many of the worst black ops since their partnership...Including 9-11...

Okay, so you're a far-left wingnut. Got it.

3
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Andrew Mason on Today at 07:42:18 PM »
I think the First shot might've been fired around the same time as the first splice on the Zapruder film

What “splice” are you referring to?

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What, are you gonna try to convince me the first shot was fired after Kennedy starts waving again?
Do you mean after he began waving for the last time, which, as Mary Woodward said, was before the first  “horrible, ear-shattering noise”? And after Betzner’s z186 photo, which he said was just before the first shot? And after the VP car completed the turn as all its occupants said? (the VP car is almost finished turning at z180 when last seen in the zfilm).

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After the little girl in the background stops running?

Rosemary Willis said she stopped when she heard the first shot. Her feet stopped at z199.  The first shot was not after that, according to her.

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After Connally turns around?
He turns “around” only once - z230-270. The first shot was before that.
4
Cars in a parking lot don't equate to a gunman behind the fence. There is no hard evidence of a gunman anywhere on the GK.

Lee Bowers testified under oath that he did not see a gunman behind the fence and never recanted that testimony.
Reportedly? Everything the CTs come up with is always reportedly. Nothing on the record.

There is nothing suspicious about cars doing a recon in the parking lot if that is what they were doing. In 1992, George H. W. Bush was campaigning by train and the train was scheduled to pass by my home golf course. Our fifth hole was right alongside the tracks and we saw both a helicopter and an inspection car doing a recon over the tracks. A little while later, the helicopter made a second pass. It was about an hour later when we were on the back nine that we saw the train going past our course. Doing a recon along a presidential route is due diligence.
When someone disagrees with one of your claims, they are not ignoring your arguments.
A flash of light could be nothing more than sun reflecting off the chrome or glass of a passing vehicle. If a shot had been fired from GK, Bowers would not have seen the muzzle flash because the gun would have been pointing in the opposite direction. It's rather far fetched to think Bowers would see a muzzle flash but not the shooter that fired the gun.
OH WOW! Not only do you have an imaginary gunman, you've given him an accomplice as well.
It's always fun to see the excuses CTs come up with for why they have no real evidence of a second shooter.
Gee, why would anyone doubt Ed Hoffman. He only waited until 1967 to tell it and then changed it several times. I didn't think even you were gullible enough to take Ed Hoffman seriously.
I encourage people to read all about Ed Hoffman. They should get a good laugh from it.
As long as you have brought up Charles Whitman, it should be pointed out that his best recorded shooting in the USMC was only two points higher the Oswald's, yet he managed to shoot 45 people from a much higher elevation and far greater distances than Oswald shot JFK from. He killed 17 people that day although two were his wife and mother earlier in the day and a few more as he got to the observation deck. I believe 11 of his kills were from his elevated position.
You continue to refer to the smoke as gun smoke even though you have never established what the smoke was.
They heard shots which they THOUGHT came from the GK. Other people heard those same shots and said it sounded like they came from the TSBD. Those people were corroborated by physical evidence and eyewitnesses. No corroboration for those who though the shots came from the GK.
Junk science.
One deployed his men to the railroad yard and one to the overpass. Both were guessing.

You surely know this is misleading. Decker ordered his officers to seal off the area of the railroad yard behind the knoll and the triple underpass. Curry ordered his officers to check the area of the triple underpass and said to get a man on top of the underpass to see what happened there. Anyone who looks at a map of Dealey Plaza and understands English can see that Decker and Curry sent their men to essentially the same area.

Of course they would want to seal off the area until they were able to determine where the shots had come from. That doesn't mean they knew where the shots had come from.
He was in close proximity to the headshot.
Zapruder didn't categorically state any such thing. He had an impression the shots came from behind him. He was wrong.

Are you bothered at all by the fact the earwitnesses said all the shots they heard came from the GK but your cherished acoustic evidence only identified one shot from the GK?

This is a mix of your usual evasion, omission, and confusion, coupled with some downright silly stuff. I'm only going to bother answering some of the points.

How would Newman's being in "close proximity" to the headshot have caused Newman to hear a bullet whiz by him from behind? Newman was 15 feet from the limo at Z313 and the limo was to his left front. So do tell me how a bullet traveling from the sixth-floor window and hitting JFK's head 15 feet away to Newman's left front would have caused him to hear a bullet whiz by him from behind. You realize that Newman was so certain that gunfire was coming from behind him that he dropped down to the ground, right?

Oh, yes, Zapruder most certainly did categorically tell the SS that the gunman was positioned behind him. He expressed no qualification or uncertainty whatsoever, nor did he say that this was merely his "impression." He only started to waffle about the gunman's location later on.

So three cars doing an obvious recon in the parking lot behind the knoll in the 25 minutes leading up to the shooting, after the area had been sealed off by police, and with one of the drivers talking into a microphone -- nah, that's not suspicious at all, huh? Yeah, okay. You'll never admit anything if it contradicts the lone-gunman myth.

Show me where in Lee Bowers' WC testimony he said he did not see a gunman behind the fence. Give me the page number. His testimony is in 6 H 284-289. Where does he say he didn't see a gunman behind the fence?

BTW, do you know who Walter Rischel and James Sterling were? They were friends of Lee Bowers. Sterling gave a statement to New Orleans DA investigator Gary Sanders that Bowers told him that after the shots were fired, he saw two men running from behind the fence, that they ran up to a car, threw something in the trunk, jumped in the car, and drove off. Rischel stated in a filmed interview that Bowers did not tell the WC everything he saw. Also, Bowers' wife told journalist Penn Jones, on the record, that Bowers was warned "not to talk."

Of course you denounce Ed Hoffman, but we both know you have not read any of the research that supports Hoffman's account and veracity. This is typical of your blind bias and automatic and uninformed rejection of any and all evidence that you don't like.

Your comments about Charles Whitman's rifle skills and your attempt to infer from them that Oswald could have performed the alleged lone-gunman shooting feat are truly hilarious, not to mention discrediting.

If I could read minds, I would genuinely be curious to know how you rationalize in your own mind the fact (1) that none of the WC's three Master-rated riflemen even came close to duplicating Oswald's alleged shooting feat, even though they were firing from only 30 feet up and were shooting at stationary target boards, and (2) that out of the 12 riflemen in the 1967 CBS rifle test, all of whom were experienced riflemen and six of whom were experts, only one of them (one of the experts) seemingly duplicated the supposed shooting feat and only because the test counted as "hits" shots that landed well outside the target area that Oswald allegedly hit (the test actually tripled the size of the target area).

Yes, there most certainly is hard evidence of a gunman on the grassy knoll: the HSCA's scientific acoustical identification of a shot fired from the knoll, the puff of smoke visible in the Wiegman film near the same area where six witnesses said they saw gun smoke, the optical-density measurements that prove the skull x-rays indicate missing occipital bone, the identification by several medical experts of an entry wound in the right temple on the skull x-rays, mortician Tom Robinson's description of a small wound in the right temple (he examined it and filled it with wax to keep it from leaking), the Harper fragment, and the powerful spraying of blood and brain matter backward onto the two left-riding patrolmen and the follow-up car.

Are you bothered at all by the fact the earwitnesses said all the shots they heard came from the GK but your cherished acoustic evidence only identified one shot from the GK?

One, a number of the witnesses who said they heard gunfire from the grassy knoll also said they heard gunfire from the TSBD as well.

Two, the powerful sound-wave reverberations from the knoll's pergola alone could have easily caused some witnesses to believe that two or three shots were fired from the knoll.

Finally, I have yet to see you deal with the fact that even after introducing two brazen errors into their recalculation of the probability of the grassy knoll shot, the NRC/NAS panel was still only able to reduce the probability to 77.7%. No one denies the panel's two severe errors, and subsequent research has shown that the probability of the grassy knoll shot is actually virtually 100% (vs. the Weiss-Aschkenasy calculation of "95% or higher").

When statistics experts describe a probability of 77.7%, they use such terms as "likely" and "probable," whereas they describe a probability of 60% as "moderately likely" and "moderately probable." A probability of 77.7% is only 2.3 percentage points from qualifying as "highly likely" in a probability perception scale (https://waf.cs.illinois.edu/visualizations/Perception-of-Probability-Words/).

A "95%" probability is considered to mean "almost certain." Legal sources note that a 95% probability is often estimated by judges and legal experts to match the threshold of "beyond a reasonable doubt," as Dr. Weiss noted in his HSCA testimony. And, again, subsequent research has found that the grassy knoll shot's probability is actually virtually 100%, like 98% and above.
5
Since it is obvious that lone-gunman theorists here are simply not going to admit that the HSCA FPP's SBT actually destroys the SBT, let us take a moment to revisit the fact that there were too many bullet fragments deposited in Connally's body to have come from CE 399, the SBT's alleged bullet.

In his 11/29/63 supplemental x-ray report on Connally's wounds, Dr. Jack Reynolds, Parkland Hospital's chief radiologist and later a professor or radiology at Southwestern Medical School, said the metal fragment in Connally's thigh measured approximately 3.5 mm x 1.3 mm on the AP x-ray and about 2.0 mm x 1.5 mm on the lateral x-ray, so it was definitely somewhat dense and not any kind of a "flake":

There is, however, one density which remains constant on both films and appears to lie beneath the skin of the region of the subcutaneous fat in the medial aspect of the thigh meters posterior to the exterior of the anterior cortex. The shape of this density is irregular but is roughly oval. Precise measurements are difficult but it is estimated that the greatest length in the AP projection is about 3.5 millimeters and the greatest width about 1.3 millimeters.

Measurements of the densities in the lateral projection reveal the greatest length to be about 2 millimeters and the greatest width to be about 1.5 millimeters The long axis of the metallic object is oriented generally along the axis of the femur. ("Supplemental Report Describing in Detail the Appearance and Location of a Small Metallic Density Superimposed on the Soft Tissue Shadows of the Medial Aspect of the Left Thigh of Governor John Connally on Films Dated November 22, 1963," 11/29/63, pp. 1-2)


In his 11/9/77 HSCA interview, Dr. Reynolds said the identifiable opacity in the thigh x-rays "definitely has metal characteristics" and that his 11/29/63 report describing "the location of this fragment" was "correct":

Dr. Reynolds stated that an identifiable opacity exists in the thigh x-rays and that it definitely has metal characteristics. He stated that his 11-29-62 report, describing the location of this fragment as just beneath the skin in the region of the subcutaneous fat, is correct. (7 HSCA 320)

In addition, Dr. Reynolds said there were "at least" four bullet fragments visible in Connally's wrist wound:

After examining the original and the enhanced x-rays, Dr . Reynolds stated that there are at least four fragments of metal identifiable in Gov. Connally's wrist wound (7 HSCA 320)

The wrist fragments and the thigh fragment could not have come from CE 399, given that the bullet was missing less than 4 grains of its substance. Russell Kent:
 
Dr. Gregory, Professor of Orthopedic Surgery, testified that he removed two fragments (but left other small fragments in the wound). These became Warren Commission Exhibit (CE) 842 below in Figure 32. There is no explanation of how the two fragments became four.

On 29th November 1963, Parkland Memorial Hospital sent Connally’s x-rays to the FBI. The dimensions of the fragment left in his thigh, as shown on one of the x-rays, were 3.5 mm by 1.3 mm.     

These are quite large fragments. It is reasonable to doubt that these fragments came from CE 399. (JFK Medical Betrayal: Where the Evidence Lies, pp. 210-211).


As I've pointed out previously, before they knew what they were supposed to say, before the SBT emerged as the explanation for JFK and Connally's non-fatal wounds, even Dr. Humes and Dr. Finck said that Dr. Gregory's 11/22/63 operative report described too many bullet fragments to have from CE 399 (2 H 374-375; 2 H 382).

This is why amateurs such as yourself should not try to analyze evidence that calls for expertise. You compare dimensions of the flakes to the weight of CE399. Talk about apples and oranges. The surgeon who removed the flakes from JBC's wrist estimated they had the weight of a postage stamp.
6
Apparently the secret to finding this type of HD frames is not being lazy and being more tech savvy (no offense, mister), but i am kinda jealous of one thing, how come you guys have all these DVDs and documentaries while i have more tech savviness and no money? seriously, this sh*t is overpriced on Amazon (after taxes by the way). So unless i sell a kidney or two, i don't think i'll get to see HD Muchmore and Wiegman for myself.
7
this is the sixth floor museum copy, actually.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: November 1963 Movie
« Last post by Matt Brooks on Today at 07:00:37 PM »
1. For What It's Worth belongs on Lord Of War (2005), not here
2. I know the smell of corporate greed bulls*it when i notice it
3. The Zapruder frames are not worth it
Verdict: i am not watching this sh*t, don't waste your brain cells with it, also the actor looks nothing like Oswald, i think Gary Oldman is definitely the best actor for Oswald.
9
Do you agree or not that receiving 82 million votes is a statistical outlier in US presidential elections?   How do you explain that?  No one before or since received anything close to that.  Do you think Biden was more popular than Reagan, JFK, Obama, or Kamala?  And more than ten million Biden voters decided not to vote for Kamala in 2024?  This logic makes me laugh.

Laugh away - that logic isn't mine 
People vote the way they vote.

There has never been ANY evidence of election fraud in US elections significant enough to change outcome
The percentages range 0.000003% and 0.0025% of all votes cast.  Minuscule.
Our elections have always been secure and trusted until Donald Trump came along.

For a lone nutter you got some kind of crazy conspiracy theories.
But still no comment on the POTUS' dangerous delusion or con game; that he thinks he won an election 6 years ago - huh?
 Thumb1:....or all those election denying Republicans that win; then take their seat without ever questioning their own result.

Full List of 'Election Deniers' Who Won (2022)
https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-election-deniers-who-won-their-races-1758250
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Jerry Carl, Barry Moore, Mike Rogers, Robert Aderholt, Dale Strong, Gary Palmer, Steve Marshall, Kay Ivey, Katie Britt, Debbie Lesko, Paul Gosar, Rick Crawford, Bruce Westerman, Leslie Rutledge, Doug LaMalfa, Tom McClintock, Kevin McCarthy, Darrell Issa, Doug Lamborn, Matt Gaetz, Neal Dunn, Kaat Cammack, Michael Waltz, Cory Mills, Bill Posey, Daniel Webster, Gus M. Bilirakis, Greg Steube, Scott Franklin, Bryon Donalds, Brian Mast, Mario Diaz-Balart, Carlos Gimenez, Buddy Carter, Drew Ferguson, Rich McCormick, Austin Scott, Andrew Clyde, Mike Collins, Barry Loudermilk, Rick Allen, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Russ Fulcher, Mike Simpson, Brad Little, Mike Bost, Mary Miller, Darin LaHood, Jim Bank, Jim Bair, Greg Pence, Diego Morales, Kim Reynolds, Tracey Mann, Jake LaTurner, Ron Estes, Hal Rogers, Rand Paul, Andy Harris, Jack Bergman, John Moolenaar, Bill Huizenga, Tim Walberg, Lisa McClain, Tom Emmer, Michelle Fischbach, Pete Stauber, Trent Kelly, Michael Guest, Ann Wagner, Blaine Luetkemeyer, Mark Alford, Sam Graves, Eric Burlison, Jason Smith, Eric Schmitt, Matt Rosendale, Adrian Smith, Jeff Van Drew, Elise Stefanik, Claudia Tenney, Gregory Murphy, Virginia Foxx, Daivd Rouzer, Dan Bishop, Richard Hudson, Brad Wenstrup, Jim Jordan, Bob Latta, Bill Johnson, Max Miller, Warren Davidson, Kevin Hern, Frank Lucas, Tom Cole, Stephanie Bic, Markwayne Mullin, Cliff Bentz, Dan Meuser, Scott Perry, Lloyd Smucker, John Joyce, Guy Reschenthaler, Glenn Thompson, Mike Kelly, Joe Wilson, Jeff Duncan, William Timmons, Ralph Norman, Russell Fry, Alan Wilson, Kristi Noem, Diana Harshbanger, Tim Burchett, Chuck Fleischmann, Scott DesJarlais, John Rose, Mark Green, David Kustoff, Dan Crenshaw, Keith Self, Pat Fallon, Lauce Gooden, Jake Ellzey, Morgan Luttrell, August Pfuger, Ronny Jackson, Randy Weber, Pete Sessions, Jodey Arrington, Troy Nehls, Beth Van Duyne, Roger Williams, Michael C. Burgess, Michael Cloud, John Carter, Brian Babin, Chris Stewart, Burgess Owens, Rob Wittman, Bob Good, Ben Cline, Morgan Griffith, Dan Newhouse, Cathy McMorris Rodgers, Carol Miller, Alexander Mooney, Scott Fitzgerald, Tom Tiffany, Harriet Hageman, Chuck Gray, Anna Paulina Luna, Ashley Moody, Ron DeSantis, Nicole Malliotakis, Dave Yost, Andy Ogles, Monica de la Cruz, Ken Paxton, Greg Abbott, Dan Patrick, Derrick Van Orden, Maria Elvira Salazar, Burt Jones, Tedd Budd, J.D. Vance, and Jen Kiggans.

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With all the cameras now in the world that capture almost every random event, we have no credible Bigfoot footage.  It's all nonsense.  My guess is that many of those who purport to believe in such things actually know it's nonsense but are having fun playing along with the hardcore nuts.
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