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1
Newsflash.  I posted the incontrovertible evidence of the liquefied steel at Ground Zero on my 9/11 Science 101 thread, referenced above.

Here's the truth about MAGA Ben Cole and non-scientists on this thread.

"When the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch."
2

[unintended duplicate]


Dear Royell,

Unlike you, I've got the basics right:

Lee Harvey Oswald, a psychologically disturbed, self-described Marxist and former Marine sharpshooter, fired three shots at JFK over 10.2 seconds in the echo chamber known as Dealey Plaza. The first shot, a steeply-downward-angled one at "Z-124," missed everything and may have left a mark / divot in the asphalt very close to where JFK was at the time -- which mark is visible in a Secret Service reenactment film. Oswald's second shot, at approximately Z-222, struck JFK in the lower-neck / upper-back and, until it fell out inside Parkland Hospital, was shallowly embedded in JBC's right thigh. The only hard bone it hit in the two men was the radial bone in JBC's right wrist which it sideswiped while twirling. Oswald's third shot hit JFK in the back of the head and caused it to go downward and forward about two inches between Zapruder frames 312 and 313.

Police Officer Cop Officer Marrion Baker, after parking his motorcycle on Elm Street near the concrete "island," surveying the scene, and hearing Chief Curry say over the radio to get men onto the triple underpass, entered the TSBD about 35 seconds after the final shot, and he and Roy Truly were confronting Oswald inside the vestibule of the second-floor lunchroom when Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles, who were in the process of coming down from the fourth floor, were quickly walking from one stairwell to the other in the N-W corner of said floor.

While running to the TSBD steps, William Shelley and Billy Lovelady, who had intercepted Shelley's friend, Gloria Calvery, at-or-near the "island," were "captured" in Couch-Darnell as they were beginning to walk towards the railway yard / parking lot.

Several witnesses either saw Oswald shoot Police Officer Cop Officer J. D. Tippit or saw him running away from the scene with a pistol in his hand, and he tried to kill at least one other police officer cop officer while he was being arrested in the Texas Theater.

Case Closed.

-- Tom
3
With respect to your three girls ID, how can Anyone rely on Anything you post when you are continually throwing crapola out there? Please just do the required JFK Assassination Research and stop embarrassing any others being burdened with this same surname. I look at my friend The Nutty Professor as being a JFK Assassination Thomas Edison. He is gonna continually try his own 100+ light bulb filaments in an attempt to "scientifically" solve any JFK Assassination issue at hand. You? You just throw xx out onto this forum. Again, please just do the research and broaden your JFK Assassination Foundation.

Dear Royell,

Unlike you, I've got the basics right:

Lee Harvey Oswald, a psychologically disturbed, self-described Marxist and former Marine sharpshooter, fired three shots at JFK over 10.2 seconds in the echo chamber known as Dealey Plaza. The first shot, a steeply-downward-angled one at "Z-124," missed everything and may have left a mark / divot in the asphalt very close to where JFK was at the time -- which mark is visible in a Secret Service reenactment film. Oswald's second shot, at approximately Z-222, struck JFK in the lower-neck / upper-back and, until it fell out inside Parkland Hospital, was shallowly embedded in JBC's right thigh. The only hard bone it hit in the two men was the radial bone in JBC's right wrist which it sideswiped while twirling. Oswald's third shot hit JFK in the back of the head and caused it to go downward and forward about two inches between Zapruder frames 312 and 313.

Police Officer Cop Officer Marrion Baker, after parking his motorcycle on Elm Street near the concrete "island," surveying the scene, and hearing Chief Curry say over the radio to get men onto the triple underpass, entered the TSBD about 35 seconds after the final shot, and he and Roy Truly were confronting Oswald inside the vestibule of the second-floor lunchroom when Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles, who were in the process of coming down from the fourth floor, were quickly walking from one stairwell to the other in the N-W corner of said floor.

While running to the TSBD steps, William Shelley and Billy Lovelady, who had intercepted Shelley's friend, Gloria Calvery, at-or-near the "island," were "captured" in Couch-Darnell as they were beginning to walk towards the railway yard / parking lot.

Several witnesses either saw Oswald shoot Police Officer Cop Officer J. D. Tippit or saw him running away from the scene with a pistol in his hand, and he tried to kill at least one other police officer cop officer while he was being arrested in the Texas Theater.

Case Closed.

-- Tom

4
...to your satisfaction.

   We now have Officer Baker pictured with Lovelady just outside the TSBD front door. At the same time, we also have the 2 Guys standing outside of the "getaway" car. Only 20 seconds after the Kill Shot, there is just 1 place these 2 Guys could have come from to be pictured alongside the car. They were previously inside the car. The Couch Film shows these "2 Guys" immediately after they exited the car. They are in the process of quickly distancing themselves from it. This now abandoned "getaway" car would remain abandoned there for 3+ Hrs following the Kill Shot.
5
So you don't think Baker could be in the same location at two different times.

Still waiting for your proof the car was a getaway car.

     Baker is pictured with Lovelady. Lovelady is standing very close to the TSBD front door. At this same time, the 2 Guys are pictured standing alongside the car. This means that it is impossible for 1 of these 2 guys to be Lovelady. And the Lovelady ID on that still frame is very solid. This man not only looks like Lovelady, but that man is in almost the same position that Lovelady is in on the Altgens Photo.
    The car being a "getaway" car traces back to the Wiegman Film NOT SHOWING a car parked alongside the Island, several feet back from the corner. This means this car was traveling down the Elm St Extension as Wiegman filmed the area around the Island. The car was traveling down the Elm Ext while shots were being fired at JFK. The car parked alongside the Island inside a clearly posted, "NO PARKING At Any Time" zone. After the 2 Guys inside the car bolted, that car sat parked there for 3+ Hrs after the kill shot. This car moving down the Elm St Ext while shots were being fired, and then parking in a "NO PARKING..." zone was well planned. I believe this "getaway" car was intended for the shooting team inside the sniper's nest. 
6
   I have now conclusively proven that the 2 Guys pictured alongside the car above, are Not Shelley & Lovelady...

...to your satisfaction.
7
The car was always there but the ladies in front are blocking most of it.
The first image below is from the above photo gallery and you can see some of the car next to the lady with the folded arms and you can see the roof a little bit to her right.
I believe the car to our left is directly in front of this car and as can be seen the perspective angle relatively shortens the length and when approximately sized, fits well within the block of obscuring ladies.



Royell's Car on the extreme left and a car directly behind, shows that the car in the above image was behind Royell's car.



In this Couch frame, the end of the car is a good match compared to the folded arm lady and the roof section as compared to the ladies in Wiegman is a similar height.



JohnM

   I have now conclusively proven that the 2 Guys pictured alongside the car above, are Not Shelley & Lovelady. So where did these 2 Guys come from? They exited the car they now stand alongside. They are distancing themselves from this car. The car was a planned "getaway" car. The sudden presence of DPD Officer Smith running up the Elm St Ext, (pictured above), and Motorcycle Officer Baker riding his motorcycle directly in front of their car, and then parking his motorcycle and running passed the front of their car as he headed toward the TSBD front door, has forced these 2 Guys to exit the vehicle. This intended "getaway" car would remain parked exactly where we see it above, for 3+ hours following the kill shot.     
8
   The "theory" has always been that the 2 Guys/Silhouettes we see alongside the car on the Couch Film, was Shelley & Lovelady. As you can see, Lovelady is still in front of the TSBD front door, when these 2 Guys are walking alongside the car. Both still frames showing the 2 Guys and Lovelady on the TSBD steps, also include Officer Baker. Baker is in both still frames. This Proves these 2 still frames are happening almost simultaneously. Like building a wall, I have put together the "getaway" car one brick at a time. Some bricks bigger than others, but still 1 at a time. I have just destroyed the "theory" that the 2 Guys/Silhouettes are Shelley and Lovelady. Do you know of any 2 male eyewitnesses, that would have been able to get next to the "getaway" car only 20 seconds after the kill shot? Those 2 Guys/Silhouettes on the Couch Film still frame had to of exited the car.

So you don't think Baker could be in the same location at two different times.

Still waiting for your proof the car was a getaway car.

9
I can't even follow your tortured logic. In fact, I don't see any evidence of logic at all. Everything you are arguing is one assumption after another. You assume the car was a "getaway". You assume two guys just got out of that car. You assume who those two guys are. Do you ever propose anything that is based on actual evidence.

   The "theory" has always been that the 2 Guys/Silhouettes we see alongside the car on the Couch Film, was Shelley & Lovelady. As you can see, Lovelady is still in front of the TSBD front door, when these 2 Guys are walking alongside the car. Both still frames showing the 2 Guys and Lovelady on the TSBD steps, also include Officer Baker. Baker is in both still frames. This Proves these 2 still frames are happening almost simultaneously. Like building a wall, I have put together the "getaway" car one brick at a time. Some bricks bigger than others, but still 1 at a time. I have just destroyed the "theory" that the 2 Guys/Silhouettes are Shelley and Lovelady. Do you know of any 2 male eyewitnesses, that would have been able to get next to the "getaway" car only 20 seconds after the kill shot? Those 2 Guys/Silhouettes on the Couch Film still frame had to of exited the car. 
10
Oswald gets to the 2nd floor after 48 sec.  He stops.  What to do next?
Should he continue down to the first floor?
Should he go to the first floor via the front stairs?
Should he lay low in the lunch room?
His jacket is in the Domino Room.
Uh Oh -- He hears Adams & Styles klomping down the stairs in a real hurry on a mission.
Best to visit the coke machine & hope that whoever it is goes clean past.
They pass. He comes back out. What to do next?
He can't decide.  He will be less conspicuous if he takes the front stairs, but he would then have to walk back into & throo the storage area to get his jacket in the Domino Room.
He decides to continue down the back stairs.
He makes a start but then Truly hollers up the elevator shaft, so he goes back up.
Then he hears Baker & Truly galloping up the stairs, & he retreats to the coke machine a second time.
He walks slow & cool.
He would have been better off diving into the lunchroom in a hurry, & laying low, he knows there is no-one in there, but he knows that if seen rushing (by Truly & Co) it will be a sure sign that he is guilty of something.
He nearly makes it, another couple of slow steps & he will be out of sight.
But damn, Baker spots a bit of him throo the glass of the door & says to come back.
Truly says that Oswald works here, & Baker & Truly gallop off.
They get to the 5th floor & take the east elevator to the 7th floor.
Oswald gets a coke to look less guilty & more cool if confronted again.  And assassinations go better with coke.
The back stairs are now dangerous.  He heads for the front stairs, either forgetting about his jacket or deciding that his jacket is a dead duck.
But just in case more dumb cops are entering along the corridor he goes via the office.
Damn, he meets Jeraldean Reid as she returns to her desk.  Mrs Hine is also in the office but she doesn't notice Oswald, or forgets.
Reid in 3 re-enactments took exactly 120 sec to get to her desk, which is about right (ie to meet Oswald).
She says something as they pass & he mumbles something back.  Its not a good look.  He has no business in the office, unless wanting change for the coke machine. Its not even a short cut to the stairs. Damn.  Anyhow no big deal.
He goes down the front stairs & mixes with the growing throng in the lobby near the front door without raising any suspicion.
Someone asks him about a phone.
Ok, things aint so bad, praps he can take a chance & get his jacket from the Domino Room anyhow.
Hmmm – he can get his jacket by going out the front door & down the steps & around & entering via the Houston dock (like he does each morning), & walking 16 paces to the jacket.
Getting caught walking in shouldn’t result in getting bitten by a cop.
So, off he goes, but he gets a little ways up Houston & he sees Officer Barnett on sentry duty at the dock, & Barnett looks vicious.
So, a quick U-turn & back down Houston.  Buell Frazier sees him walking south along Houston.
No, the jacket is a dead duck.  He decides to get out of there asap, he crosses Houston & then crosses Elm.
Tippit is waiting.

Most of what you are arguing is based on time frames for which there is no reliable source. Nobody was running a stopwatch on 11/22/63 so we don't know how long it actually took anybody to move from point A to point B. You could do ten reenactments and it still isn't going to prove anything. All the approximations can do is show what is possible, not how long it actually took anybody to move the distances they did. You also have no way of knowing how the various actions sync up with one another. We simply don't have the data to do that. You've constructed a scenario you believe fits within the established parameters. Due to the variables involved, there are hundreds of ways to construct a scenario that would fit within the parameters equally well. You are also making assumptions about Oswald's mindset at various times. It's OK to speculate as long as we don't treat our speculations as established facts.

Here's what we do know. Oswald reached the lunchroom before Truly and Baker reached the second floor landing. It is impossible to say precisely how long after the third shot it took any of the three men to reach the second floor landing. We can only approximate that. For reasons stated in my previous post, it is likely Oswald entered the lunchroom just seconds before Truly and Baker reached the second floor landing. That is my speculation but it is speculation based on what we know is true. Oswald entered the lunchroom before Truly and Baker reached the landing and did so seconds before Baker spotted him because if it had been longer, the inner door would have closed behind him and Baker could not have spotted him.
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