JFK Assassination Forum

I posted on Jeff Morley and his coverage by RT, the Moscow propaganda channel. Seemed like a topic relevant to the JFKA news environment.

This post was first moved into the U.S. And International Politics thread, and then disappeared.

I will follow any instructions of the moderator...but is this topic off-limits for some reason I don't know?

Everything's fine, you can post it again, my mistake. 

For the most part,  Nutters don't rely on fallible human witnesses and instead look at the hard evidence which clearly points to Oswald as the lone gunman. There is no hard evidence of any other shooter from any other location.  Witnesses have some value but only to the extent their accounts can be corroborated by the hard evidence. If one were to rely on witnesses to tell them what happened, it would be easy to construct a dozen or more scenarios depending on which witnesses one chooses to believe. The assassination only happened one way and the hard evidence tells us what that one way was.

IOW; we pick and choose the statement that serves us best

Nutter's know how to weigh evidence and determine what is probative and what is not. Eye and earwitness testimony that conflicts with what we see in the Z-film is not at all probative.

Actually, Nutters know how to cherry-pick witness statements and ignore other corroborating accounts.
  it is necessary to get to their phony preset conclusion. 

Educate your ignorant Libertarian self, Corbett.

The KGB -- "Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti" / "Committee for State Security" -- which was comprised of the First Chief Directorate (foreign espionage and assassinations) and the mysterious Second Chief Directorate (domestic espionage and overall counterintelligence) was formed from the OGPU/NKVD/MVD, etc. -- whose original incarnation was formed in 1917 -- in 1953. In 1992, after "the USSR lost the Cold War," the aforementioned FCD and the SCD were renamed the politically correct-sounding SVR and FSB ("Sluzhba Vneshney Razvedki" / "Foreign Intelligence Service" and "Federal'naya sluzhba bezopasnosti" / Federal Intelligence Service," respectively.

Factoid: "The weak and powerless" SVR sent "Anna Chapman and The Ten Illegals" (or was it Eleven?) to the U.S. in 2000. They worked their way into positions of influence in our country and weren't rolled up by the gumshoe FBI until 2010.

Speaking of 2010, that was the year that the gumshoe (and possibly mole-ridden) FBI prematurely closed down its investigation of probable KGB* agent Igor Danchenko, the guy who went on to feed Christopher Steele oodles and gobs of false or unfalsifiable "intel" which ended up giving the Steele Dossier a bad name in the minds (sic) of MAGATs.

You are truly delusional if you believe the Russians were responsible for Trump being elected in either 2016 or 2024. Trump won because he connected with a large segment of the electorate and because in both of his victories, the Dems chose to run two of the weakest candidates that have ever led a major party ticket in a presidential election. When Kamala was nominated, she had a 3 point lead in the polls. It took her just 107 days and $1.5 billion to turn that advantage into a 2 point loss. Hillary lost a race in 2016 most people, including me, didn't think she could lose. She lost because she took the three blue wall states for granted and wasted valuable resources in states like Arizona and Utah which she didn't need at all had she won the blue wall states. It also didn't help her cause that she is dislikeable as a person. But go on believing it was Putin that was responsible for Trump getting elected twice if that eases the pain for you.

Thanks to both LNs JohnC and AndrewM for exposing the main problem with the 3 shot theory as proposed by the WC.

The conventional WC theory for 3 shots is that the 1st shot missed the entire limo and the 2nd shot is the SBT at Z224 that went thru both men and thru JC’s wrist bone and came out looking like CE 399. 3rd shot is Z312-Z313 the head shot.

The conventional LN theory SEEMS to work except that the 1….2..3 shot pattern heard by a super majority  of witnesses (2/3rds to 3/4ths depending how witness are counted) requires that the jury must believe that those majority of witnesses are wrong. The jury must accept CE 399 as evidence even though the witnesses who first saw the bullet would not verify the bullet. A report by FBI agent Odum that the bullet WAS verified by the 1st witness who found it, being denied by Odum 50 years later , must be due to Odum just being old and not remembering the report.

So AndrewM the alternative LN tries to solve this 1…2.3 patten by proposing the 1st shot was  at Z-190,  and was a hit , rather than a miss and that the movements of JFK and JC in sync at z224-z227 are not from being hit by a single bullet at that instant.
Instead the jury is told that the reaction of JFK at Z224 is a delayed response to the Z190 bullet going thru JFK which then hit JC in just his left thigh , bypassing JCs entire upper body. JC moving forward as seen at Z225-z227 and then JC turning back with a painful look on his face is NOT an expression of pain, rather it’s simply a delayed reaction to hearing a shot at Z190. JC’s facial expression is expressing fear rather than pain.

The jury is asked to accept that JCs upper body / shoulder angle at Z190-Z193 far more turned rightward than 45 degrees to the right than what appears in the actual Z film. In other words, you cannot trust what you see in the Z film with just your eyes alone. Measuring overlays or computer modeling by an expert such as Dale Myers is not offered however by AndrewM to prove the proposed twisted position of JC at Z190-Z193.

The 2nd shot proposed by AndrewM. at Z 270 approx is more problematic than the Z 190 shot.Here the jury must believe the entry /exit bullet path thru JCs upper body is aligned with a TSBD 6th floor trajectory even though JCs upper body/shoulders appears in Z 270-z273 frames to be nearly rotated 180 looking back at JFK. As JC leans back , this could possibly be movement “forward” indicative of being struck.  by the Z270 bullet traveling at 2000 ft/sec. The jury should accept this because AndrewMs suggests his edited chopped off Z/film sequence from Z-270-Z280 depicts possibly forward movement and that a portion of JCs white shirt cuff damaged is reason to believe his right wrist was tangentially knicked only on the upper part of the wrist.

Finally , the jury must believe that as JC is falling back into his wife’s lap after the Z270 shot and there is an even more pronounced look on his face indicating pain, that even though he’s had one wound in the thigh and now a second wound going thru his upper body and hitting his wrist, that he is NOT in pain, rather it is just more “fear”.

So I have to congratulate these 2 remarkable LNs JohnC and AndrewM. for demonstrating to me that LNs  are willing to go just about as far  as CTs are in making excuses for a flawed theory they propose or for the conventional WC theory even if it means suggesting that a super majority of witnesses  did not hear what they thought they heard.

There is nothing flawed with the WC's findings and there are no problems with the scenario in which the first shot missed JFK, the second shot went through both JFK and JBC, and the third shot was the kill shot. It is not a problem that a majority of the witnesses said the last two shots were closer together because we know a majority of the witnesses can be wrong. A majority of the witnesses said all the shots came from the GK and we know that is wrong. If they can be wrong about that they can be wrong about the spacing of the shots. Both are earwitness accounts. If they can be wrong about one they can be wrong about both. The Z-film is still, and always will be, the best indicator of what happened. The three shot scenario with a first shot miss and a second shot single bullet fits perfectly with what the Z-film shows. There is no definitive proof as to when the first shot was fired but whether one chooses to believe it was fired shortly before we see JBC start to turn to his right or was fired before Zapruder resumed filming, the SBT works and so do the parameters the WC gave us back in 1964.