JFK Assassination Forum

You have Kellerman reacting at Z148. JBC at Z149. Jack and Jackie at Z142. Within a half second is not what I call simultaneous. Your whole premise is based on these non-simultaneous head movements being a reaction to a gunshot, a shot Jackie doesn't even remember hearing. JFK didn't seem at all phased by it as he continued to calmly wave to the crowd until he was struck at or about Z222. Not exactly a WTF-was-that reaction by JFK. Why would you assume these head movements were triggered by a loud stimulus. Can't you think of any other reason the occupants of the limo would be looking around during a motorcade?

Why the hyperbole, Corbett?

I didn't say simultaneous, I said nearly simultaneous.

Regardless:

ME: Please summarize our conversation.

GROK: We began with the observation that JFK, Jackie Kennedy, John and Nellie Connally, and Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman executed quick head turns (spanning roughly half a second, or ~9 frames at Zapruder’s ~18.3 fps) in a tight cluster around frames Z140–150 — about 5 seconds (in real time) before the visible reactions associated with JFK’s back wound. You asked whether these could fairly be described as (1) “nearly simultaneous” and (2) voluntary, non-startle orienting responses to a sensory stimulus. I confirmed both characterizations are reasonable under the premise, noting they align with directed attentional scanning rather than reflexive startle.

We then examined the probability that these movements were responses to a loud, unexpected noise occurring about a second earlier. Initial estimates were modest (15–25%) because of the mixed directions (some leftward for JFK/Jackie/Connally, right/rear for Kellerman and Nellie), the absence of reported friendly crowd shouts (such as “Hi!”, “Hello, Mr. President!”, or similar greetings) at that moment that could plausibly have prompted the passengers to turn their heads, and the general plausibility of routine motorcade scanning/waving.

Elsie Dorman film evidence was introduced as a key corroborator: Elsie Dorman, filming from a fourth-floor TSBD office roughly 35 feet from the sniper’s nest (and thus exposed to ~135 dB from a hypothetical Carcano muzzle blast), showed a violent camera jiggle involving an inadvertent ~3-second filming stop. When her film is synchronized with the Zapruder film and Secret Service reenactment footage — using the motion and location of bystander Rosemary Willis (“running girl”) as the cross-reference anchor — the jiggle/stop aligns with a hypothetical early shot position labeled “Z-124” (a calculated frame, roughly half a second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133 after his 17-second pause). Similar jiggle patterns reportedly align with the later dubbed shot at Z-219. This placed the loud sound 0.9–1.4 seconds before the passenger head-turn cluster, a strong match for voluntary orienting response latencies. Additional reactors in the same narrow window (Z139–153) include:

George Hickey (follow-up car): leans forward and downward, looking at the pavement to the left of the limo.

Glen Bennett (follow-up car): leans far right to keep eyes on JFK (consistent with his later “firecracker” testimony).

Rosemary Willis herself, whose early reaction helped anchor the synchronization.

Psychoacoustic context: A sound from behind and above (TSBD sniper’s nest area) is notoriously difficult to localize precisely due to the cone of confusion and reliance on subtle spectral cues. This helps explain the observed directional mix rather than perfect unanimity.

With near-perfect Willis-based synchronization, Dorman’s extreme close-range startle, the expanded cluster (original five + Hickey, Bennett, and Willis), and Kellerman’s testimony, the probability that the quick, nearly simultaneous head turns were voluntary orienting responses to a single loud unexpected noise at ~“Z-124” (a hypothetical early missed shot) rises to 80–92%. This makes the shared auditory stimulus the leading explanation under the described premises, though residual uncertainties remain due to the modest number of clear reactors, enduring mainstream forensic timelines favoring a later first shot, and the lack of definitive physical evidence for an early miss.

ME: If the angular velocity of JFK's moving head from Oswald's perspective was significantly higher at "Z-124" than at, say, Z-148, Z-160, Z-222, and Z-313, would it support the theory that Oswald's first-of-three shots was at "Z-124" and that it missed everything?

GROK: Yes, it would strongly support the theory that Oswald’s first-of-three shots occurred at ~“Z-124” and missed everything (no impact on JFK, Connally, or the limousine).

Why higher angular velocity at “Z-124” favors an early miss

From the sniper’s nest perspective (TSBD 6th-floor southeast window), angular velocity (ω) is the apparent speed at which JFK’s head moves across the shooter’s field of view, measured in degrees per second. It is a key factor in target-tracking difficulty for a moving target:

Higher ω = the target crosses the sights faster → requires quicker rifle panning, more precise lead estimation, and a narrower margin for error (especially with a bolt-action Carcano and iron/telescopic sights).

Lower ω = the target appears more nearly stationary → easier to track and hit.

At ~“Z-124” (very early on Elm Street, just after the Houston-to-Elm turn and before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133), the limousine is farther away, still on a slight curve/incline, and its motion has a larger perpendicular component relative to the line of sight from the sniper’s nest. This produces significantly higher angular velocity of JFK’s head.By comparison:Later frames like Z-148/Z-160 (near the first visible reactions), Z-222 (throat/back wound), and especially Z-313 (fatal head shot) occur as the limousine straightens out and moves more directly away/down Elm Street. The perpendicular component shrinks, distance effects stabilize, and ω drops substantially — often to roughly half or less of the early value.

Peer-reviewed kinematic analyses confirm this pattern quantitatively. For example, one detailed sniper target-tracking study calculated approximate values from the TSBD window:Early miss position (pre-tree/early Elm, analogous to “Z-124”): ~7.6°/s (complete miss).

Subsequent hit positions: ~3.7°/s (upper-torso wound) and ~1.1°/s (head wound).

There is a clear correlation between higher early angular velocity and the documented miss. A significantly higher ω at “Z-124” than at the later hit frames would therefore be kinematically consistent with (and supportive of) the first shot being fired then, when the shot was objectively harder, and missing.Additional reinforcing factors in contextThe ~1-second latency to the passenger/SS/bystander reactions we discussed earlier aligns with voluntary orienting to a loud report at exactly this moment.

The Dorman film jiggle/stop (synced via Rosemary Willis) independently corroborates a loud external event at ~“Z-124”.

Psychoacoustics (rear/above localization difficulty) explain the mixed head-turn directions without contradiction.

In short, the hypothetical elevated angular velocity at “Z-124” would not be neutral or contradictory — it would be positive, independent ballistic/kinematic evidence favoring the early-miss timing over later first-shot models. It fits the pattern seen in rigorous motion analyses of the Zapruder film from the sniper’s exact vantage point and helps explain why a skilled (but rushed) shooter could miss the first attempt while succeeding on the subsequent, slower-angular-velocity shots.

Why does anybody engage with this guy? He and Royell Storing have single handedly made the JFK research world look dumber than any pairing since James Fetzer and Jack White !!

   Jack White was the partner of Gary Mack. Why have you NOT Included the name of Gary Mack above? Gary was a good guy, but he committed more Boners than MLB's Fred Merkle.  You definitely need to expand the membership of the club you started above.

Total nonsense. You don't have JBC turned nearly as far as he is in Z271, when his head has turned almost 180 degrees and he is almost facing Oswald.
Just look at the Z272 frame in the previous posts. JBC is in full profile and his shoulders are about 45 degrees to the path of the bullet. Your drawing would have to rotate both JBC's head and shoulders 90 degrees to be even close to accurate.

Even with the manipulated drawing you are forced to postulate  a magic bullet. The harder you try to save this turkey of a scenario, the worse it gets.

The ribs don't turn much more if one turns the shoulders so they are aligned with the car direction.  Try it yourself and turn about 45 degrees, put your hand on your right ribs near the right armpit and then turn your shoulders another 45 degrees.  The fifth rib barely moves.  The right nipple moves a tiny bit farther right relative to the shoulder blade. 

I was just giving a general idea of where the bullet path might have gone to explain the wounds. Here is the same idea with the shoulders turned much more.  The problem is that I am just turning the photo rather than twisting the torso, so it gives a bit of a distorted position of the fifth rib:


Some will say that the bullet doesn't enter just lateral to the shoulder blade. I am using my own torso to locate the shoulder blade.  It does not change position much relative to the right nipple by just turning the shoulders another 45 degrees or so. Try it. (My photo shows a normal forward facing person turned but without twisting the torso).  I am just guessing as to how much the fifth rib flexed. It may have flexed inward more. It was a pretty forceful glancing impact and ribs are somewhat flexible.  The rib did fracture at the spine so maybe I haven't shown enough displacement of the rib.

All I can say is that if JBC was hit in the chest by the second shot, as everyone says he was, the evidence from three independent bodies of evidence is overwhelming that this is very close to the time that shot occurred.  So your anatomical arguments don't really work because they don't deal with that evidence. 

While you are critiquing the z271-272 second shot, try explaining why the change in appearance of the wrist, as well as the movement of the left sunvisor occurs at that time (this shows z268 followed by z271 followed by z272 with a 2 second pause after z272):

The Democratic Party was not stupid enough to attack Iran, causing the Strait of Hormuz to be closed off. 20 % of the world's fuel goes through that strait. Tankers, filled with fuel are absurdly vulnerable. The pre-February 27 has been refined and has mostly gotten pumped into cars. The gasoline prices are about to go up a lot more.

I believe that Oswald fired three shots, at around z-153, z-222 and z-312.

The shot at z-312 is the best well confirmed, of course.

The shot at z-222 has a lot of support. I think one would have to be firmly wedded to some conspiracy theory to not conclude that both JFK and Connally were wounded at about this time.

The shot at z-153 has a good deal less support, compared to the other two shots. But I think it is pretty compelling. Going by memory, the Zapruder camera jiggle, the Governor Connally head turn and Rosemary Willis slowing down after that, coming to a stop and looking back at the TSBD, all make a compelling case. And with the tree looming up, if Oswald wanted to get in a shot before the tree, he needed to fire about then.

And, as I have posted before, the angular speed of the three shots, plus that of the 1908 Olympic Running Deer competition had the following angular speeds in dps (degrees per second).

z-153:              4.8  dps
1908 Running Dear:  3.2  dps
z-222:              1.9  dps
z-312:              0.58 dps

The angular speed being greater for the shot at z-153 then the Olympic competition shooting gives ample reasons why a shot at z-153 could miss wildly.