JFK Assassination Forum

Maybe he had tripped and fallen.

    The above is exactly what I have been saying. The Bell Film shows Wiegman to be stumbling as he moves (W). He is facing (W) and moving (W). Just like a ball carrier in a football game moving from the (R) to-the (L) across your TV screen. Instead of a football, Wiegman has his camera in 1 hand and the other hand is outstretched as he braces himself for possibly falling to ground.
    Those that have bought into the Urban Legend of  Wiegman being "sprawled" across the steps, have yet to explain WHEN Exactly does Wiegman move (W) across the knoll in order to arrive alongside the Newman Family? From where we see Wiegman on the Bell Film, he is still (E) of the Newman Family. Wiegman at some point has to move (W) in order to run down the knoll and end up alongside the Newman Family at the bottom of the knoll. Which is what we see Wiegman doing on the Couch Film. Running DOWN the knoll. 

I guess the schmuck who started this thread is unaware of the fact the Democrats invented gerrymandering.

ME: Was gerrymandering invented by Democrats?

Google AI: The term and specific event that coined "gerrymandering" involved Massachusetts Governor Elbridge Gerry in 1812, who belonged to the Democratic-Republican Party—the political ancestor of today's Democratic Party. However, the practice itself existed before that name was coined, and both major modern political parties have used it throughout American history.

Origins of the Term

• The 1812 Event: According to the History of Gerrymandering, Governor Elbridge Gerry signed a redistricting bill in Massachusetts designed to benefit his Democratic-Republican allies by packing and cracking Federalist voting districts.

• The Cartoon: A local newspaper, the Boston Gazette, printed a political cartoon showing one jagged, bizarrely shaped district as a salamander, combining Gerry's name with the animal to create the word "gerry-mander".

• Earlier Examples: Political manipulation of boundaries predates 1812. For instance, in 1788, Anti-Federalists in Virginia—including Patrick Henry—redrew congressional lines to try and block James Madison from winning a seat.

Evolution and Modern Use

• Party Evolution: The Democratic-Republican Party split over time. Elements of it evolved into the modern Democratic Party, while other eras and realignments saw different groups adopt boundary manipulation tactics.

• Bipartisan Practice: Over the past two centuries, according to Gerrymandering in the United States on Wikipedia, both Democrats and Republicans have utilized redistricting and advanced mapping software when they held state legislative power.

ME: Which modern U.S. political party did the "Democrat-Republican Party" most closely resemble?

Google AI: The historical Democratic-Republican Party does not perfectly align with either modern U.S. political party, as its 19th-century platform contained elements that are now split between both sides of the aisle. Because the political landscape has completely shifted over more than two centuries, political scientists and historians look at the comparison in two distinct ways:

1. Ideologically: It most closely resembles the modern Republican Party

If you look strictly at core governing philosophies, Thomas Jefferson’s platform shares major principles with modern conservatives:

• Small Federal Government & States' Rights: Democratic-Republicans deeply mistrusted a centralized federal authority. They argued that most governing power should be left to the individual states—a cornerstone of modern Republican philosophy.

• Strict Constitutional Interpretation: Jefferson and Madison championed a "strict constructionist" view of the U.S. Constitution, meaning the federal government only has the exact powers explicitly written in the document. This is highly similar to the originalist judicial philosophy favored by modern Republicans.

• Low Taxes and Debt Reduction: Upon taking power in 1801, Jefferson prioritized cutting federal taxes (like the whiskey tax) and aggressively paying down the national debt.

In this ideological framework, their rivals—the Federalists—were much closer to modern Democrats because they advocated for a powerful central government to direct the national economy.

2. Institutionally and Culturally: It most closely resembles the modern Democratic Party

If you look at the party's lineage and its targeted voting base, it shares a direct connection with modern Democrats:

• Direct Lineage: The Democratic-Republican Party is the direct organizational ancestor of today's Democratic Party. When the party fractured in the 1820s, Andrew Jackson’s populist wing absorbed the machinery of the party and shortened the name to the "Democratic Party".

• Coalition of the "Common Man": Jefferson’s party positioned itself as the defender of the working class (primarily agrarian farmers and laborers) against what they viewed as a wealthy, urban, Federalist elite. This anti-elitist rhetoric and focus on the "common citizen" shares strong roots with the populist elements of the modern Democratic party.

On the Bell thread, Robin Unger uploaded a better and higher resolution version of the Bell film and from this 1080p film, it's clear that at the end of this GIF, Wiegman is getting up by pushing himself up by placing his right hand on the top step and simultaneously he draws his right leg up and places it on the lower step and in the last frames he swings his left leg forward, as he commences the process of getting up.

The 1080p stabilized Bell film



Half size of above.



JohnM

Maybe he had tripped and fallen.

Ok, thanks for posting that WC testimony of Rowland wife. It’s only the part of him telling her about sighting a man with gun at the SE window that she confirms. The black elderly male in the SW window is an after the fact detail which maybe an “embellishment”.

Therefore there’s more wiggle room here that BRW was never in the SN but that he was where he said he was siting on the cart a couple windows down from the box wall. Why chicken bones were found on top the boxes IDK but it’s not that relevant anymore as now there is time from 11:45 till 11:49 that the TSBD shooter had time to stack boxes and adjust the window.

Can we reasonably also discard Rowlands sighting of a man with rifle in hand at the SW window before the fact? If so then there is no problem with Oswald being sighted at by Carolyn Arnold from 12:15-12:17 as he had already prepared the SN from 11:45 till about 12:00 when he went down to the 1st floor and seen by Eddie Piper then.

Yes,

Arnold completely botches the description of what the man with the rifle would have looked like if he was framed in the window as he depicts the man with a rifle. Talking about port of arms and other nonsense. Once again the window starts 14 inches off the floor and the open part extends another 29 inches. Specter knew this and that was the whole point of the many different questions Arlan Specter asked of Rowland to describe the man in the frame of the window. Specter knew he was making the whole thing up. In a similar fashion he did the same thing in questioning Rowland about the caliber of the rifle being a 30 odd size six. Specter knew that Rowland had no idea what he was talking about and was making the whole thing up and drove the point home.

Rowland should have been playing the lottery that day. He is standing there blowing smoke up his wife’s behind about security people present on this parade route so that it did not turn out like the Adlai Stevenson incident, except there really was a guy on the 6th floor with a rifle.

In the same manner that Rowland caught the WC Panel off guards by announcing another person in the Snipers Nest, the attorneys and the WC Panel was just as surprised by Charles Givens stating he returned to the 6th floor and saw LHO walking from the SN area. They had no idea he was going to make that admission. The idea that was either staged or a made up story is not bore out by the reaction of the panel and attorneys.

Mr. GIVENS. Well, it was about a quarter till 12, we were on our way downstairs, and we passed him, and he was standing at the gate on the fifth floor.
I came downstairs, and I discovered I left my cigarettes in my jacket pocket upstairs, and I took the elevator back upstairs to get my jacket with my cigarettes in it. When I got back upstairs, he was on the sixth floor in that vicinity, coming from that way.
Mr. BELIN. Coming from what way?
Mr. GIVENS. Toward the window up front where the shots were fired from.
Mr. BELIN. Just a second, where did you go? Where were you when you saw him on the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. I had went and got my jacket and was on my way back to the elevator.
Mr. BELIN. All right, just a second. I am going to get a plan of the sixth floor, if I have one, and try and have you point that out to me.
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.

The chicken bones story is summed up by Shelley. There were different sets of chicken bones but only one had the pop bottle mentioned by BRW. Located right where BRW said they were.

Mr. BALL - Now, did you find any chicken bones up there or see any?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, I went up later on that day; I believe after we had gotten back from City Hall with someone, I don't remember who it was, one of the officers and they got them.
Mr. BALL - They did what?
Mr. SHELLEY - They got the bones.
Mr. BALL - Where were they?
Mr. SHELLEY - They were on the third--yeah, it would be the third window from the southeast corner.
Mr. BALL - And were they in a sack?
Mr. SHELLEY - Laying on a sack.
Mr. BALL - Laying on a sack?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir; with a coke bottle sitting in the window.
Mr. BALL - Did you see any other chicken bones anyplace around there?
Mr. SHELLEY - No, sir; that's all.
Mr. BALL - That's the only ones?
Mr. SHELLEY - That's all.
Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody eating fried chicken on that floor that morning?
Mr. SHELLEY - At one time I think I said I did but Charles Givens was the guy that was eating and he was further on over toward the west side and he was eating a sandwich so he says.
Mr. BALL - Now you say that you thought that you had seen someone had eaten fried chicken that morning?
Mr. SHELLEY - I thought I had; those colored boys are always eating chicken.
Mr. BALL - Do you think you did or do you know?
Mr. SHELLEY - I asked Charles Givens whether it was him that was eating and he said it was a sandwich.
Mr. BALL - Was that before you went down for lunch?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir; it was pretty early in the morning, about 9:30.
Mr. BALL - Where was it?
Mr. SHELLEY - It was two-thirds across the building toward the west because I didn't put plywood over there and he didn't get too far from where we were actually working.

You previously posted - "There is ample evidence  that Oswald was in the sniper's nest at 12:30"
You've been asked to provide a single scrap of evidence that places Oswald in the SN at 12:30pm.
Are you going to do that or not?

Oswald's rifle being the assassination weapon, together with the fact that he had no alibi for the time of the shooting, places him in the SN at 12:30pm. That's not even considering his fingerprints and palmprints being found there.