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Dented neck was to hold wadding for a blank round.
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      It is not rocket science, but perhaps you need someone to explain the basic concept for you in crayon:

      • A human can give evidence of when a sound event occurred in relation to when a visual event occurred.
      • Humans can do this because, unlike the zfilm, humans are capable of sensing both sound and light.
      • We can see the visual event in the zfilm and relate the frame in which the visual event appears to the time of the sound event.
Yes, humans can do that. You're just not very good at it.
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In this way, the witness provides evidence of the time of the sound event in relation to an event that they saw and which was also recorded on the zfilm.

For example, Hurchel Jacks was driving the VP car. He said “ My car had just straightened up from making the left turn. I was looking directly at the President's car at that time. At that time I heard
a shot ring out which appeared to come from the right rear of the Vice President's car.”. That statement relates the time of the first shot to the time that the VP car completed the turn.  We can see in the zfilm that at z180 the VP car had not yet completed the turn.

This is the part you don't understand. The human brain does not make precise recordings like that. If you told someone there is going to be a loud noise and you want them to take note of precisely where they were when they heard the noise, most people could probably give you a pretty accurate response. But nobody asked Jacks to do that. He wasn't asked that question until well after the event. At that point he was operating with a very imprecise memory. Nothing against Jacks. That's just being human. What he provided was an educated guess, and not a very accurate one.
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In that way Hurchel Jacks is a “witness who said the first shot occurred at a time after z180”.
Yes. But it provides a ‘before bracket’ to the first shot ie z180 is before the first shot..

If only you had proof Jacks accurately remembered precisely where the car was when he heard the first sound.
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No.  I was not interpreting it. I was simply quoting exactly what he said.  He said upon hearing that sound he “immediately” looked at the President’s car and “at that exact time” saw “a shot that hit” JFK in the upper back. You seem to be ignoring those words.

Bennett was not looking at JFK when he heard the first shot. The first shot is what caused him to look at JFK. He then saw the SECOND shot hit JFK below his right shoulder. That is the only way to interpret what Bennett said without twisting his words.
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What he did not say is that he waited 4 seconds to look at the Boss’ car after hearing the first loud firecracker noise. He did not say that the there was another loud noise at the time he saw a shot that hit JFK in the upper back. He saw it at the exact time that he first looked, which was “immediately upon hearing” the first loud firecracker noise. He described only two loud sounds.[/list][/list]

He didn't have to wait four seconds. He turned to look at JFK as after hearing the first shot. Then he saw the second shot strike. That's two separate shots no matter how you slice it.
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    You did ask me which witnesses said the first shot came before Z180. Just to refresh your memory you wrote:

    "Give us the witnesses who said the first shot missed and the witnesses who said the first shot occurred at a time before z180"
    It is not rocket science, but perhaps you need someone to explain the basic concept for you in crayon:

    • A human can give evidence of when a sound event occurred in relation to when a visual event occurred.
    • Humans can do this because, unlike the zfilm, humans are capable of sensing both sound and light.
    • We can see the visual event in the zfilm and relate the frame in which the visual event appears to the time of the sound event.

    In this way, the witness provides evidence of the time of the sound event in relation to an event that they saw and which was also recorded on the zfilm.

    For example, Hurchel Jacks was driving the VP car. He said “ My car had just straightened up from making the left turn. I was looking directly at the President's car at that time. At that time I heard
    a shot ring out which appeared to come from the right rear of the Vice President's car.”. That statement relates the time of the first shot to the time that the VP car completed the turn.  We can see in the zfilm that at z180 the VP car had not yet completed the turn.

    In that way Hurchel Jacks is a “witness who said the first shot occurred at a time after z180”.

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    "just after they completed the turn" That sure nails it down to within 30-40 frames.
    Yes. But it provides a ‘before bracket’ to the first shot ie z180 is before the first shot..

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    You are taking Bennett's statement out of context.
    No.  I was not interpreting it. I was simply quoting exactly what he said. 
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    He said he heard a shot while he was scanning the crowd to the right(#1). He then turned toward JFK and saw a shot strike JFK high on his back (#2).
    He said upon hearing that sound he “immediately” looked at the President’s car and “at that exact time” saw “a shot that hit” JFK in the upper back. You seem to be ignoring those words.

    What he did not say is that he waited 4 seconds to look at the Boss’ car after hearing the first loud firecracker noise. He did not say that the there was another loud noise at the time he saw a shot that hit JFK in the upper back. He saw it at the exact time that he first looked, which was “immediately upon hearing” the first loud firecracker noise. He described only two loud sounds.[/list][/list]
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    LP-

    Well, it is a bit turgid, but you can read Hunt's book, Buried in Plain Site: One Man's Search for Truth in the Murder of RFK.

    I will say it appears there were more bullet holes and injuries than eight bullets could explain. Even FBI guys said they saw unexplained bullet holes in Ambassador pantry woodwork---woodwork the LAPD later destroyed.

    Why would Sirhan's older brother buy him a handgun? And preach Middle East radicalism to him?

    No one has ever suggested the Sirhans felt threatened in their home or in the Pasadena-Los Angeles area.

    One deduction is the handgun was purchased with a use in mind.

    I respect Larry Hancock's work. BTW, like you he is a UFO-fan. I am not.



    6
    JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
    « Last post by John Corbett on Yesterday at 11:45:53 PM »
    What is silly is you thinking that I ever suggested that witnesses could.

    You did ask me which witnesses said the first shot came before Z180. Just to refresh your memory you wrote:

    "Give us the witnesses who said the first shot missed and the witnesses who said the first shot occurred at a time before z180"

    Are you now acknowledging the silliness of your challenge?
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    But we can certainly relate what they said they observed at the time of the first shot to specific zframes.  For example, occupants of the VP car said that the first shot occurred just after they completed the turn and were going down Elm St. toward the triple underpass.  We can see that at z180 when the car is last seen in the zfilm that it has not quite finished that turn.

    "just after they completed the turn" That sure nails it down to within 30-40 frames.
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    Ok. That’s one witness.  Just another 40 or so to go. Unfortunately, Bennett was not called so he never explained why his notes made on the airplane that afternoon refer to only two shots.  He wrote that he heard a loud noise and “immediately, upon hearing” it, he “looked at the Boss’ car”. He said “Immediately, at that exact time” he “saw a shot that hit the Boss” in the upper back.

    You are taking Bennett's statement out of context. He said he heard a shot while he was scanning the crowd to the right(#1). He then turned toward JFK and saw a shot strike JFK high on his back (#2). He then said he saw a "second" shot strike JFK in the head(#3). He was clearly describing the second of the two shots which he saw strike JFK. Bennett could not have seen the shot that hit JFK in the back if he was scanning the crowd to the right. He was clearly describing two separate shots, the one he heard and then the one he saw hit JFK in the back.

    Here is Glen Bennett's description of the shooting:
    https://www.jfk-online.com/bennett.html
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    The Iranian  strategy is making Trump look weak.  WAKE UP TRUMP and stop acting like Biden.

       "Iranian strategy...."? What kinda "strategy" involves those in charge hiding deep inside caves and spider holes? It's like Japan refusing to surrender after Truman dropped the 1st A-Bomb on Hiroshima. There was nothing left then and nothing left after Truman dropped the 2nd A-Bomb on Nagasaki. These Iranian terrorists hiding inside caves never had anything and still have nothing. There literally is Nothing to negotiate over.
       China is the Big Loser. They rely on Iranian Oil. The USA NOW becomes the major oil producer in the world. The takeover of Venezuelan Oil Production being part of a Big Picture Plan. Dating way back, Trump has consistently said, "Take the oil".
    8
    JFK Assassination Plus General Discussion And Debate / Re: The First Shot
    « Last post by Andrew Mason on Yesterday at 07:54:37 PM »
    No witness can tell us at what frame of the Z-film they saw or heard something. Your request is silly.
    What is silly is you thinking that I ever suggested that witnesses could.  But we can certainly relate what they said they observed at the time of the first shot to specific zframes.  For example, occupants of the VP car said that the first shot occurred just after they completed the turn and were going down Elm St. toward the triple underpass.  We can see that at z180 when the car is last seen in the zfilm that it has not quite finished that turn.

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    SS Agent Glen Bennett who heard the first shot, then turned to look at JFK and SAW the second shot strike him high on his back. To believe that the first shot was not a miss by Bennett's account, one would have to believe only JBC was hit by the first shot, something JBC adamantly refuted.

    Ok. That’s one witness.  Just another 40 or so to go. Unfortunately, Bennett was not called so he never explained why his notes made on the airplane that afternoon refer to only two shots.  He wrote that he heard a loud noise and “immediately, upon hearing” it, he “looked at the Boss’ car”. He said “Immediately, at that exact time” he “saw a shot that hit the Boss” in the upper back.
    9
        Badgeman was one of many highlights in "The Men Who Killed Kennedy". That British presentation was far from a "1 Trick Pony". The Gordon Arnold segment did give us a pretty good look at that area between the N-S Picket Fence and the short wall. Even though that view was 25 yrs later, how many images do we have of that area?  And the segment where they detail the hiring of the foreign shooters was also interesting.


    Fiction is usually more interesting than fact.
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    I thought the description of where the 3 shooters were positioned was novel. I have never heard anyone claim/speculate that a shooter was positioned in the rear, "almost on the horizontal". In view of SS Paul Landis recently claiming that he recovered a bullet in the backseat area of the JFK Limo at Parkland Hospital, does give credence to a possible "almost on the horizontal" shooter being connected to JFK's "shallow" Back Wound.
        Sure, there is more wrong than right in TMWKK, but you're making a mistake if you casually "throw the baby out with the bath water" here. I also think if you knew how the Gordon Arnold story eventually came to light, you would view Arnold and his story in a much different light.

    TMWKK was all bath water.
    10
    Apparently, the Dallas County Historical Foundation didn't think that was a deal breaker. If I was hiring for that position, I would be looking for someone with managerial skills and some interest in the JFKA. I have no opinion on what his managerial skills were but apparently the people who hired him were satisfied  with what the knew. Who am I to second guess them.

    BTW, the Badgeman photo was a key piece of TMWKK program so if you agree that was a boner, you are impugning that program.

        Badgeman was one of many highlights in "The Men Who Killed Kennedy". That British presentation was far from a "1 Trick Pony". The Gordon Arnold segment did give us a pretty good look at that area between the N-S Picket Fence and the short wall. Even though that view was 25 yrs later, how many images do we have of that area?  And the segment where they detail the hiring of the foreign shooters was also interesting. I thought the description of where the 3 shooters were positioned was novel. I have never heard anyone claim/speculate that a shooter was positioned in the rear, "almost on the horizontal". In view of SS Paul Landis recently claiming that he recovered a bullet in the backseat area of the JFK Limo at Parkland Hospital, does give credence to a possible "almost on the horizontal" shooter being connected to JFK's "shallow" Back Wound.
        Sure, there is more wrong than right in TMWKK, but you're making a mistake if you casually "throw the baby out with the bath water" here. I also think if you knew how the Gordon Arnold story eventually came to light, you would view Arnold and his story in a much different light.
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