For years I have written on this forum and others that one of the lies Oliver Stone pushed in his 1991 movie is that the WC had concluded the first shot had missed. I had based that on my memory of the scene in the movie where Garrison and his assistant (Lou Ivon) are in the sniper's nest discussing the plausibility of Oswald having fired the shots that killed JFK. I had a clear memory of Ivon telling Garrison, "They said the first shot missed.". In reviewing that scene yesterday for another thread, I discovered that hadn't been said. They were discussing why Oswald didn't take the shot while the limo was on Houston and what could have happened had he missed.". In reality, a statement similar to that was made later in the movie but it was made by Senator Russell Long played by Walter Mattheau. What he said was, "I tell ya the first shot would always be the best." Apparently, I conflated those two scenes creating a false memory in my mind. Prior to yesterday, I would have been willing to be a large chunk of money that my memory of the scene was fairly accurate. My mistake was an honest one but it was still a mistake and one I will not repeat it in the future.

False memories are a real thing. We are all subject to them. It's because we tend to remember bits and pieces of events and over time our minds will fill in the blanks. That is why I am always skeptical of statements witnesses have made many years after the fact when there are no contemporaneous statements by the witness that says the same thing.

MTG and O'Meara are like two peas in a pod. Both seem incapable of critical thinking. If they were capable, they would realize how unimportant Givens seeing Oswald on the 6th floor is to the case against Oswald. It's neither exculpatory nor incriminating regarding Oswald. It neither establishes Oswald was in the sniper's nest at the time of the shooting nor refutes it. IOW, a real nothing burger. Why would anyone coerce Givens to say something that was so unimportant?

LOL! What a total clown show. Looks like you still have not bothered to read the transcript of Dr. Young's third 2001 interview or any of the article links I provide in the OP.

FYI, Dr. Young hand-wrote his 21-page "What Price A Rose?" recollection on 11/23/63, the day after the autopsy (see page 46 in the third-interview transcript). He sometimes referred to this document as his "notes." You'd know this if you had bothered to read the transcript or the articles linked in the OP.

I did read it which is why I know he made no mention of seeing a bullet during the autopsy in his"What Price A Rose?" article . There is no record of Young mentioning anything about seeing a bullet at the autopsy prior to 2001. The fact that you don't seem to know that makes me wonder if you bothered to read "What Price A Rose" or did you just assume it mentioned such a bullet?'

Whaaat?! LOL! Really?! You would?! Are you sure?! Well, okay, go read the links that I provide in the OP. Or, go watch the segment on Dr. Young's account in episode 3 of the 2021 documentary JFK: Destiny Betrayed.

Is this your "confirmation" by Mills?

"Mills told historian Jan Herman that he remembered the event but when pressed for details Mills stated that he didn’t want to talk about it even after the historians notified him that they represented the U. S. Navy Bureau of Medical and Surgery Office of Medical History."

Nothing specific from Mills as to what he was confirming. Only that he remembered the event. You simply assumed he remembered it the way Young did.

This is just hilarious!

Yes it is. I'm sure lots of readers were laughing at you when they read it.

Oh, wow! So Chief Mills and Dr. Young just made up their accounts about Dr. Young sending Chief Mills and Chief Martinell to search the limo for skull fragments and finding the limo bullet?! And Chief Mills lied through his teeth to Navy historian Jan Herman when he confirmed the finding of the limo bullet and confirmed later receiving a call from Dr. Young?! And Dr. Young was just putting on an elaborate act of pretending to be trying to find out what happened to a non-existent limo bullet when he wrote to President Ford and spoke with Arlen Specter?! That's your argument?!

There is no record of what Mills told Herman. Only a vague comment that he remembered the event which wasn't even a quote. Mills refused to talk about the event which you took as an invitation to fill in the blanks to your liking. SOP for CTs.

The two Navy senior NCOs were sent by Dr. Young, who was the assistant to Admiral Burkley, JFK's personal physician, so, uh, yeah, of course the Secret Service let them search the limo.

You are assuming the Secret Service let the NCOs search the limo. Your assumption doesn't even make sense. The Secret Service had already searched the limo for evidence and had found the fragmented bullet from the headshot and several bone fragments. It wouldn't have been hard for them to figure out the bone fragments would be relevant to the prosectors. They knew JFK's body was being autopsied at Bethesda so naturally they would want those sent to Bethesda. While we don't know exactly what communications there were, it sounds like the Secret Service informed Young, or possibly someone else at Bethesda, that they had found some bone fragments in the limo. It sounds like they probably mentioned that bullet had been found as well. Young sent the NCOs to the White House garage to pick up the bone fragments and Young may have just assumed they would also send the fragmented bullet they had mentioned. But the Secret Service sent the fragmented bullet to the FBI and sent Bethesda the bone fragments.

I fully acknowledge that I too have had to fill in a few blanks but I have done so in a way that makes sense. It makes no sense the the Secret Service after doing a thorough search of the limo and finding both bone and bullet fragments would have left a whole bullet laying on the limo floor and then allowed the NCOs to search the limo themselves.

There is no record of Mills or anyone else saying the NCOs had searched the limo themselves. According to your quote, "They picked up the bullet off of the floor in the back of the car.". Because you clipped this quote out of context, we are left to guess who "They" were that Young was referring to but the only explanation that makes sense is that "They" were the Secret Service agents who had found the bone and bullet fragments and contacted Young about them. You chose to assume that Young was referring to Mills and Martinell when he said "They" which makes no sense.

Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on Yesterday at 01:10:23 PM
HUH? Just HUH? Dr. Young said he saw the bullet. He even gave a detailed description of it. That is "first-hand knowledge" by any definition.

Any record of Young saying that before 2001?

LOL! What a total clown show. Looks like you still have not bothered to read the transcript of Dr. Young's third 2001 interview or any of the article links I provide in the OP.

FYI, Dr. Young hand-wrote his 21-page "What Price A Rose?" recollection on 11/23/63, the day after the autopsy (see page 46 in the third-interview transcript). He sometimes referred to this document as his "notes." You'd know this if you had bothered to read the transcript or the articles linked in the OP.

Quote from: Michael T. Griffith on Yesterday at 01:10:23 PM
Chief Mills confirmed to Navy historian Jan Herman that he and Martinell found a bullet in the rear of the limo and that Dr. Young later called him to verify his account. Confirmation from one of the two guys who found the bullet is "first-hand knowledge" by any definition.

I'd like to see the documentation for this claim.

Whaaat?! LOL! Really?! You would?! Are you sure?! Well, okay, go read the links that I provide in the OP. Or, go watch the segment on Dr. Young's account in episode 3 of the 2021 documentary JFK: Destiny Betrayed.

This is just hilarious!

The Secret Service conducted the search of the limo for physical evidence. Do you really think they would have let two Navy non-coms to just show up and search the limo. The story makes no sense, but CTs never seem to care if the myths they choose to believe make any sense.

Oh, wow! So Chief Mills and Dr. Young just made up their accounts about Dr. Young sending Chief Mills and Chief Martinell to search the limo for skull fragments and finding the limo bullet?! And Chief Mills lied through his teeth to Navy historian Jan Herman when he confirmed the finding of the limo bullet and confirmed later receiving a call from Dr. Young?! And Dr. Young was just putting on an elaborate act of pretending to be trying to find out what happened to a non-existent limo bullet when he wrote to President Ford and spoke with Arlen Specter?! That's your argument?!

The two Navy senior NCOs were sent by Dr. Young, who was the assistant to Admiral Burkley, JFK's personal physician, so, uh, yeah, of course the Secret Service let them search the limo.

Did the evil, evil, evil CIA plan for JFK and JBC to be behind the Stemmons Freeway sign from Zapruder's camera's view so we wouldn't realize they'd been hit by different bullets?

(LOL!)