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The JFK Assassination - Discussion & Debate / Re: DiEugenio Promotes Prayer Man Scam To Congress
« Last post by Duncan MacRae on Today at 07:27:12 PM »FWIW: Enhanced Chris Davidson frame 2017
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My weirdness studies (and experiences) have largely focused on the possibility of the survival of death. I'm just strange enough that I find the question somewhat more important than whether Oswald porked Judyth Vary Baker (answer: no, Marina is proof he had better taste than that).
It would help your cause tremendously if you had the ability to weigh evidence. That doesn't seem to be in your toolbox.You seem to think that witnesses cannot independently corroborate other witnesses. That understanding seems to be lacking in your toolbox.
A large proportion of earwitnesses reported two mutually exclusive versions of where the shots came from which pretty much shoots down this claim.
You are providing ample evidence to support my opening statement in this postWitnesses can corroborate each other if they are independent. If you rolled two dice 25 times and it came up snake eyes each time you would suggest that means nothing. I would look for a reason and say it means they were loaded dice.
Because it is. He told us what he did. We can see him doing what he said he did. It's amazing how you put absolute faith in uncorroborated witness accounts but will dismiss a corroborated witness' account simply because it doesn't jibe with your goofball theory of what happened. One more example of how bad you are at weighing evidence.
Andrew follows another uncorroborated witness down a rabbit hole.
You also need to be able to apply common sense to that visual. That's another thing that seems to be missing from your toolbox.
No. I labour under the premise that cases are solved by evidence.
People remember important salient details of an event with generally good accuracy. All studies show this. Sometimes a fact is difficult to observe by humans and in those cases:
a. they generally don't mention it unless specifically asked (which means it has low salience) and
b. when asked indicate that they are not sure and/or provide answers that are best guesses and
c. their answers are spread over the range of possible answers.
But when a large proportion voluntarily report an observation of a fact without prompting (high salience) their observations are correct over 90% of the time.
Even without knowing this, the fact that witnesses independently report on and agree on a detail tells you that it is highly improbable that they all mistakenly observed the same event in the same mistaken way.
That only happens if the source of the error is not independent of the witnesses (eg. street lighting affecting the colour of something all in the same way).
?? What evidence do you have that these witnesses did not provide their own observation that JFK reacted to the first shot until someone led them to believe it:
Pierce Allman
James Altgens
Cecil Ault
Ernest Brandt
Charles Brehm
Faye Chism
John Chism
Nellie Connally
Bobby Hargis
George Hickey
Clint Hill
Sam Kinney
Paul Landis
T.E. Moore
Mary Moorman
Jean Newman
Gayle Newman
William Newman
Harold Norman
Ken O'Donnell
David Powers
Malcolm Summers
John Templin
Linda Willis
Abraham Zapruder
You keep coming back to this as some irrefutable fact that JBC is turning in response to a shot.
We actually have evidence that contradicts that the turn was in response to a shot - Mary Woodward said that JFK's last turn and wave was after she and others in her group shouted and waved to the President and that this turn (which is the last turn, smiling and waving he ever makes) was BEFORE that first "horrible ear-shattering noise". Witnesses reported the first shot occurring when JFK was smiling and waving to his right. We also have at least 25 people who said that JFK reacted visibly to the first shot and it wasn't by continuing to smile and wave. Furthermore, JBC does not even turn his head to his right to look at JFK, which he said he did after the first shot because he immediately thought that JFK was being targeted by an assassin. He does not look like he believes that JFK is being assassinated but I am not a face reader.
That comment would only make sense to someone who thinks that JBC's turn to the right at the same time where JFK turns right and starts smiling and waving could only have occurred because they both heard a rifle shot and thinks that anyone who questions that is nuts.
I am not the only one who thinks JBC didn't feel the thigh wound.Quote
I don't think JBC felt the thigh wound either because it happened about a millisecond after his chest wound and his wrist wound. It's called sensory overload. The brain can only process so much information at one time. JBC didn't even know his wrist had been shattered until he came out of surgery. His brain didn't process either the wrist wound or the thigh wound. It didn't process the sound of that gunshot either. He only remembered the blow to his back which he said felt like someone had punched him.Quote
Whether the jacket bulges out or the front right lapel simply moves sideways as his right arm moves is not something that can be resolved with the image quality of the zfilm.
You also need to be able to apply common sense to that visual. That's another thing that seems to be missing from your toolbox.
Tippit was rumored to be involved with a women staying temporarily in that house the witness Virginia associated with Tippit's
car. Estranged from her husband, she was already pregnant at that time. Her daughter, I believe, is still living. Maybe new light
can be shed if a GoFundMe could be set up to incentivize her to submit her DNA and to disclose the results of the testing....
It doesn't require one to think that two people who suddenly found themselves under fire, one of whom was actually hit, would not perceive the situation 100% accurately.No. I labour under the premise that cases are solved by evidence. People remember important salient details of an event with generally good accuracy. All studies show this. Sometimes a fact is difficult to observe by humans and in those cases:
You continue to operate under the preposterous premise that people perfectly remember events. In reality, people remember bits and pieces of events and their minds try to fill in the blanks and not always accurately. JBC had no way of knowing whether the first shot hit inside the limo or not. Nellie would have had no indication of that either.
Later, when they were led to believe erroneously that JFK had been hit by the first shot, they came to believe that.?? What evidence do you have that these witnesses did not provide their own observation that JFK reacted to the first shot until someone led them to believe it:
Of course we can see that didn't happen because we see JBC reacting to the first shot at about Z-164, just as he described.You keep coming back to this as some irrefutable fact that JBC is turning in response to a shot. We actually have evidence that contradicts that the turn was in response to a shot - Mary Woodward said that JFK's last turn and wave was after she and others in her group shouted and waved to the President and that this turn (which is the last turn, smiling and waving he ever makes) was BEFORE that first "horrible ear-shattering noise". Witnesses reported the first shot occurring when JFK was smiling and waving to his right. We also have at least 25 people who said that JFK reacted visibly to the first shot and it wasn't by continuing to smile and wave. Furthermore, JBC does not even turn his head to his right to look at JFK, which he said he did after the first shot because he immediately thought that JFK was being targeted by an assassin. He does not look like he believes that JFK is being assassinated but I am not a face reader.
You would have us believe he only imagined that he heard a shot and the first shot wasn't fired for another 3.5 seconds.That comment would only make sense to someone who thinks that JBC's turn to the right at the same time where JFK turns right and starts smiling and waving could only have occurred because they both heard a rifle shot and thinks that anyone who questions that is nuts.
You then add to your silliness with the ridiculous conclusion that JBC was only hit in the thigh by that shot and didn't feel it.I am not the only one who thinks JBC didn't feel the thigh wound.
Instead, for some inexplicable reason, just two frames after his jacket bulged out, his right arm suddenly flipped upward and back down in the span of 9 frames, 0.5 seconds, and immediately went into severe gyrations when he twisted and dipped to his right. You claim it was at this point that he was turning to see JFK and wasn't struck in the back until Z270.Whether the jacket bulges out or the front right lapel simply moves sideways as his right arm moves is not something that can be resolved with the image quality of the zfilm.
.....
...So that’s how I approach JFKA claims and narratives. First and foremost, from the level of “Does this make any sense?” Does it have real-world plausibility? Does it reflect who the supposed participants really were, or have they been reinvented to fit the narrative? Does it fly in the face of better evidence and a simpler, more plausible narrative? When the answer to all of these questions is in the negative, I consign the claim or narrative to the lunatic fringe. In my experience, those in the lunatic fringe ignore all the threshold questions and leap directly into “connecting all the dots,” losing sight of the fact that the claim or narrative makes no sense or is wildly improbable; this is the conspiratorial love of complexity that Tom Bethell and the Dutch psychoanalyst talk about. Eventually, the claim or narrative takes on a cult-like life of its own.
With Tippit, we have a pretty straightforward narrative that extends from Oswald going to his room and getting his revolver to being arrested at the theater with his revolver. What is the raw likelihood that there was some incredible intervening event that either had nothing to do with Oswald, his revolver and the JFKA (i.e., Tippit was murdered for unrelated reasons) or was somehow part of a plot to either eliminate Oswald or further frame him? The JFKA itself framed him about as thoroughly as he could be framed. If the plot was to eliminate him, then why didn’t whomever shot Tippit just shoot Oswald (or shoot Oswald after Oswald shot Tippit)? I have a near-impossible time getting past the “What sense does this make?” question.
At one time, specifically in regard to the questions being raised about Craford in connection with Tippit, I researched him as best I could, all the way up to his death many years later. He was a complete nobody all his life. He was about as much a hitman as my grandmother and about as unlikely a Tippit assassin as one could imagine. Does his departure from Dallas look anything like a hitman on the run? Does the rest of his obscure life look like someone who had any connection to the JFKA or a hit on a policeman? In all the various scenarios into which he is plugged, all that I can see he has going for him is that he vaguely resembled Oswald and had some connection to Ruby.
The Tippit murder was a wholly unexpected, traumatic event with a chaotic aftermath. It isn’t surprising that there are conflicting witness statements and loose threads. Greg has assembled a number of items of reasonable doubt (with respect to those items) and an alternative scenario, just as he has alternative scenarios for the Walker attempt, the Furniture Mart visit and other aspects of the JFKA. They all seem to me to be creative brainstorming that was intended from the get-go to articulate an alternative scenario – and that’s fine because it’s kind of fun, but they do all seem to exemplify the conspiratorial love of complexity. Add them all together, and I say “Impossible, just flat impossible for me to believe the orthodox narrative and the hard evidence supporting it is wrong in that many respects.” I won’t use the phrase “lunatic fringe” because Greg has put a lot of original work into these scenarios and he does seem to acknowledge that he is somewhat “thinking out loud” and merely “suggesting,” as opposed to the aggressive sales job that MTG tries to do.
If there was “something more” to the Tippit shooting, my guess would be that the shooting itself took place as described in the orthodox narrative and the “something more” is to be found in (1) Tippit’s alleged actions in the time before he encountered Oswald and/or (2) the “why” questions that John Corbett chides me for even considering – Why the hell did Tippit stop Oswald? If Tippit thought there was anything suspicious, especially related to the JFKA, why the hell didn’t he take better precautions? Why the hell did Oswald completely short-circuit his escape and make things a hundred times worse for himself by immediately shooting Tippit in front of multiple witnesses?
Wow, 1,267 words. I have written almost three books already this morning! I am the Leo Tolstoy of JFKA forums!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/817506332415313/posts/825759478256665/
J.D. TIPPIT: THE REAL TRUTH ·
Rachel White
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Admin
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December 5, 2020
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. The house of at 10th & p 410E... Was resided in by Mrs witherspoon. One of her daughters. Johnnie maxie Witherspoon was having an affair with Tippit. The other daughter. Joy Dale (witherspoon) worked for Ruby in his club. & old mother witherspoon herself knew oswald.. So it's of no coincidence is that that spot at 10th & p was chosen as a deliberate Ambush spot..for Tippit
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/davis_vc.htm
...Mr. BELIN. You mean you didn't see him?
Mrs. DAVIS. We saw him when he cut across our yard.
Mr. BELIN. Where was he when you last saw him? He was---was he still in your yard, or was he on the sidewalk on Patton Street?
Mrs. DAVIS. He was still in our yard.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do
Mrs. DAVIS. We already called the police.
Mr. BELIN. You called the police before you saw him
Mrs. DAVIS. When Mrs. Markham was standing across the street hollering, she told us to call the police, so Jeanette and I went in there, and Jeanette called the police and we went back and he was cutting across our yard, and we gave him time to go on because we were afraid he might shoot us.
Mr. BELIN. Did you call the police before or after you saw him cut across your yard?
Mrs. DAVIS. Before.
Mr. BELIN. In other words, to your---to the best of your recollection, you heard the shots, you ran outside, you saw Mrs. Markham---did you see anything else when you saw Mrs. Markham?
Mrs. DAVIS. No, sir; we just saw a police car sitting on the side of the road.
Mr. BELIN. Where was the police car parked?
Mrs. DAVIS. It was parked between the hedge that marks the apartment house where he lives in and the house next door.
Mr. BELIN. Was it on your side of East 10th or the other side of the street?
Mrs. DAVIS. It was on our side, the same side that we lived on.
Mr. BELIN. Was it headed as you looked to the police car, towards your right or towards your left?
Mrs. DAVIS. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see any police officer in a police car when you first saw him?
Mrs. DAVIS. No, sir....
https://conspiracydossiers.com/2026/04/05/robert-perrin/
Who was Robert Perrin?
Dallas to New Orleans, 1961-1962
Nancy Perrin works at the Carousel Club
The Cuba Project Meetings
The Suicide of Robert Perrin, August 28, 1962
Harassment of Nancy Perrin Rich
Dallas-New Orleans Underworld
Notes
Who was Robert Perrin?
On October 11, 1920, Robert Lee Perrin was born in Kerkhoven, Swift County, Minnesota, USA.1 Very little is known about his life...