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1
MTG--

Verily, I posted a couple times at EF-JFKA how JFK authorized the anti-Diem coup, despite being told it would likely result in the Diems' assassinations, and the complete lack of Kennedy Administration efforts to extract the Diems. Indeed, CIA inquiries about extracting the Diems were ignored---Lodge appeared to not want a government-in-exile situation, preferring the Diems dead.

There is a recorded conversation between Ambassador Lodge and JFK, in which Lodge lays this out, and many other warnings.

JFK responds, in part, by calling Madame Nhu a "bitch" and a lesbian (she appears to have been heterosexual).

There were different standards at play in 1963, and JFK tried to have Castro assassinated several times, and more-or-less authorized the Diems' assassinations. That is part of the historical record.

People forget that JFK was deeply instrumental to the founding of South Vietnam, and he committed 16,000 military personnel to SV to help it survive against communist terrorism---and JFK himself called it terrorism. Cardinal Spellman was an influential figure as well, and close to the Kennedy family.

JFK may have wanted to modestly reduce US presence in SV in late 1963, but he was not going to abandon SV.

President LBJ wondered out aloud if the Diems or Castro assassinations or attempts led to blowback.

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Yeah, gun powder smells like exhaust fumes. The odor of gun powder was noticed right after the shots were fired. I see no way that the gun powder could have come all the way down from the sixth-floor window so quickly, especially given the size of the area in which witnesses smelled the odor.

What you can see is not a litmus test for what was.
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Keep in mind, too, that a number of witnesses also saw gunsmoke coming from a certain area right behind the picket fence on the knoll, and a cloud of apparent gunsmoke is visible in this vicinity in the Wiegman film. It could not have been exhaust fumes, nor could it have come from the steam pipe some 100 feet behind the fence.

Witnesses said they saw smoke. It is an assumption that it was gun smoke and highly likely that it was, given how quickly gun smoke dissipates and there was no evidence of a shooter on the GK on either side of the fence.
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As for a diversion, I think it's more likely that the sixth-floor window was the diversion. The gunman made no effort to conceal his presence from outside viewers. Five witnesses saw a gunman in the sixth-floor window. The gunman could have stood farther back from the window, which would have made it harder to see him and would have somewhat reduced the sound of his rifle firing.

The sixth floor was the only place shots were fired from on that day. It was the only place witnesses saw a gunman. It was the only place shells were found. It is where the owner of the murder weapon left his fingerprints. It was a short distance from where the murder weapon was found. The wounds were all caused by shots fired from above and behind the victims. In short, there is zero evidence of any shots fired from any location other the southeast corner window of the 6th floor of the TSBD.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Death by Org Chart
« Last post by Tom Graves on Yesterday at 10:21:57 PM »
"Former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin cherishes the likes of Paul Bleau.
4
There's no credible reason to doubt that the two men seen fast-walking up the extension in the Gerda Dunkel zoomed slow-motion Couch/Darnell clip are Lovelady & Shelley...The men are right where they were supposed to be according to testimony...Lovelady has the same dimension geometric plaid pattern as he is seen wearing in other photos and same bald spot...And Shelley has his body shape, black suit jacket, white shirt collar, and Duck's Ass hair doo...And he pulls up and talks to Karan Hicks as she goes by...

Anything less strikes me as deliberate misinformation designed to confuse...

This is evidence enough for persons truly seeking correct identification...

I believe the obtaining and enhancement of the 6th Floor Museum 1st generation copy of Darnell will show Molina as the man being called Lovelady on the steps...

                                            "The men are right where they were supposed to be according to testimony" ?   

                  The WC Testimony of both Shelley and Lovelady places them on the Elm St Extension at roughly 3 MINUTES after the kill shot.We are seeing the 2 Guys walking down the Elm St Extension on the Couch/Darnell films at :20 SECONDS after the kill shot.
                   This is Not the Ed Forum. Stop polluting this Forum with  BS:
5
Have you ever read this?

http://fkancestry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/WillFinal3.jpg
Oh yes have a copy of this. Jerry Jr.’s wife Maria was friends with Mary Pinchot. A private woman Mary was not.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Death by Org Chart
« Last post by Fred Litwin on Yesterday at 03:37:20 PM »
Death by Org Chart

Paul Bleau's recent article on Assassination Inc. examines the org charts of CIA personnel involved in various operations. From this he is able to deduce the JFK conspiracy. It's incredibly silly and unserious. But that's the current state of JFK assassination research.

https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/death-by-org-chart
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There's no credible reason to doubt that the two men seen fast-walking up the extension in the Gerda Dunkel zoomed slow-motion Couch/Darnell clip are Lovelady & Shelley...The men are right where they were supposed to be according to testimony...Lovelady has the same dimension geometric plaid pattern as he is seen wearing in other photos and same bald spot...And Shelley has his body shape, black suit jacket, white shirt collar, and Duck's Ass hair doo...And he pulls up and talks to Karan Hicks as she goes by...

Anything less strikes me as deliberate misinformation designed to confuse...

This is evidence enough for persons truly seeking correct identification...

I believe the obtaining and enhancement of the 6th Floor Museum 1st generation copy of Darnell will show Molina as the man being called Lovelady on the steps...
8
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / A question for Brian Doyle
« Last post by Brian Doyle on Yesterday at 03:13:04 PM »

There's been a major break-through in the Hendrix case...Hendrix stage manager Eric Barrett did a podcast interview recently where he admitted he got the phone call that Jimi was dead at "5 or 6 am"...This is, of course, what we have been arguing for decades and it disproves the official story that had Jimi dying shortly before arriving at hospital at 11:45am on September 18th 1970...This admission is proof that the other stage managers Gerry Stickells and Terry Slater left Jimi dead on the bed at the Samarkand Hotel for 5 hours while they cleaned the place of evidence before calling the ambulance...Apparently I was the only Hendrix fan smart enough to realize this new timeline precludes the official cause of death, autopsy, and Inquest and now legally requires a new investigation...A phone call informing Barrett Jimi was dead at 5 or 6 am creates a new forensic window that precludes the official claimed cause of death...This new 1 hour forensic window makes accidental death by barbiturate intoxication medically impossible and therefore proves murder...It also proves the main witness, Monika Dannemann, was lying about what actually happened and, more importantly, when...

Skip to the 20 minute mark in this attached video:


9
McMasters..... Ultra-Liberal?

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https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,5118.msg183153.html#msg183153
....
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https://time.com/archive/6841111/investigations-the-inquest-begins-getting-closer-to-nixon/

//This automatic response to any White House request was also demonstrated by the State Department. In Au gust 1971 it cooperated with Hunt after receiving a memo from the White House and two calls from David Young, an Ehrlichman assistant on detached service from Henry Kissinger’s Nation al Security Council staff. Young telephoned William B. Macomber Jr., then a Deputy Under Secretary of State. Macomber granted Hunt full access to the most secret “back -channel” communications (meaning only the addressee and sender should see them) between the State Department and its embassy in Saigon for a period in 1963. Hunt copied 240 of these classified cables.

According to sworn testimony by Hunt, he then examined the cables to determine whether there was any indication, as he hoped, that President John Kennedy had ordered the assassination of South Viet Nam’s President Ngo Dinh Diem. Hunt said that this study was supervised by Charles Colson, then special counsel to Nixon. Hunt claimed that he showed Colson some cables that could conceivably have been interpreted as implied orders from the Kennedy Administration to “pull the trigger against Diem’s head.” According to Hunt, Colson declared: “Well, this isn’t good enough. Do you think that you could improve on them?” Hunt said he would need technical help to fabricate something more conclusive, but Colson replied: “This is too hot. See what you can do on your own.”

To draft a cable that sounded authentic, Hunt said that he then used a White House Xerox machine, a razor blade and a typewriter. Because it lacked the proper type face, however, he knew it would not stand careful scrutiny. He and Colson, Hunt testified, thereupon tried to convince a LIFE correspondent, William Lambert, that the cable was genuine. Lambert was impressed at first but later became doubtful and never wrote about it....
.....

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New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/1973/09/25/archives/hunt-says-he-fabricated-cables-on-diem-to-link-kennedy-to-killing.html

Hunt Says He Fabricated Cables on Diem to Link Kennedy to Killing of a ...
Sep 25, 1973
E H Hunt Jr testifies before Sen Watergate com on his fabrication, on orders of C W Colson, of State Dept cables to show link between Pres Kennedy and assassination of S Vietnam Pres Diem; also ...

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https://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,907269-8,00.html
May 21, 1973
INVESTIGATIONS: The Inquest Begins: Getting Closer to Nixon
Young telephoned William B. Macomber Jr., then a Deputy Under Secretary of State. Macomber granted Hunt full access to the most secret "back -channel" communications (meaning only the addressee and sender should see them) between the State Department and its embassy in Saigon for a period in 1963.


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Miss Alexandra Mills Is Bride of TJ Devine
https://www.nytimes.com/1973/04/15/archives/miss-alexandra-mills-is-bride-of-t-j-devine.html
- New York Times - Apr 15, 1973
HOBE SOUND, Fla., April 14—Miss Alexandra Mills, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Samuel Wynne Mills of Locust Valley, L. I., and Hobe Sound, was married here this afternoon to Thomas J. Devine, son of....
William B. Macomber Jr., United States. Ambassador to Turkey, was best man. Mrs. Devine attended the Green

Thomas Devine was a close friend of GHW Bush. Devine's MIT Univ., Sigma Chi fraternity house mate, 16 students resided together,
beginning in summer, 1944, was Gary Coit, CIA "minder" of Priscilla Johnson.


Gary Coit's CIA report of interview of Priscilla Johnson.:

https://www.maryferrell.org/xdoc/95706#relPageId=1&search=coit
104-10135-10088: PARTIAL CONTACT REPORT ON MEETING WITH PRISCILLA JOHNSON, 30-31 JAN 2/4/64 report 17457 by Gary Coit, SR/CA: Coit interviewed Priscilla Johnson about a Soviet student named Aseev at Harvard who had decided to defect to the US.

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Students Don Ear Muffs to Shut Out Band Music
Daily Boston Globe – Aug 14, 1947
… rhumba music yesterday asked the Boston Licensing Board to shut down
the Hotel … one of 16 Tech students livings in the adjoining Sigma Chi
fraternity house … Other student were Thomas Devine of Rochester
who
told of taking refuge in ..

https://sigmachi.mit.edu/docs/beaver_sigs/1946_bsig_vol1946_no1.pdf


As Wubriny-1. Devine met with DeMohrenschildt in NYC just two weeks after DeMohrenschildt claimed he asked Oswald, "Lee, how could you miss?" (Shooting at Edwin Walker) On that same April, 1963 day, Joseph Dryer, Dervine's best friend in Rochester, met seperately in NYC with DeMohrenschildt and Joseph Clemard Charles.

From "Our man in Haiti" by Joan Mellen


After I discovered from Devine's 1944 high school yearbook that Dryer's brother Peter had been a member (20 boys) of Devine's K-8 class
before departing for Choate, I wrote to Joan to inquire whether Joseph Dryer had mentioned Devine.



What else do you have?



A.U.V. secret society house at Phillips Andover, pictured above, is described below as a "small cottage"!

Hooker's mother married DeMohrenschildt's brother, Dimitri, in 1936, DeMohrenschildt was married in a ceremony
in their home in 1943. George DeMohrenschildt and Hooker formed an oil exploration company in 1950.
Hooker was member of the DeMohrenschildt - Sharples 1951 wedding party, The Philip Sharples Palm Beach home on the end of a cul-de-sac
was two lots away from the architect who designed it, MS Wyeth, Sr., residing at 152 Woodbridge.

MS Wyeth Jr. was book editor for 14 years of the long awaited, Marina and Lee. Wyeth Jr.'s wedding party included Hawley Ward, a prep school classmate.
Hawley Ward, prior to meeting Wyeth, Jr., was a classmate of Thomas Devine for eight years in a class of 20 boys!


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https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/L1NY-NL5/edward-gordon-hooker-1923-1967

Edward Gordon Hooker (1923-1967) - FamilySearch.org
Brief Life History of Edward Gordon Edward Gordon Hooker was born in 1923. Edward entered prep school at Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts. There, he shared a small cottage with George H. W. "Poppy" Bush. Bush and Hooker became inseparable. They worked together on Pot Pourri, the student yearbook, whose photos show a handsome young Poppy Bush and an even more handsome

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https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3098.msg116059.html#msg116059
Have I at least overcome "the propinquity" discounting? I opened this thread in an deliberately uncomplicated way.

1. Three names, George Bush, Tom Devine, Priscilla Johnson Macmillan

2. Tom Devine's wedding announcement, followed by a 1955 article on the back ground of Devine's "best man," William B. Macomber, Jr.

3. The 1940 roster of the house mates of A.U.V., a Phillips Andover secret society, highlighting three names,
George Bush, William B. Macomber, Jr., Edward Gordon Hooker (step-nephew and later business partner of George DeMohrenschildt.)


4. Out of this simple, three step introduction, DeMohrenschildt somehow became an "unknown" to Tom Devine and to his close Rochester friend, Joseph F. Dryer, Jr., and those two friends, even to each other, except for their good luck of holding separate meetings with DeMohrenschildt literally hours apart in NYC on or about April 25, 1963, two weeks after DeMohrenschildt was aware Lee Harvey Oswald had shot a rifle at Edwin Walker through a window in the latter's Dallas home! To top it off, Tom Devine's M.I.T. frat house mate, Garry Coit, is assigned to handle Priscilla Johnson MacMillan.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=52102#relPageId=7&search=nattily




"Bemis" was "fingered" by Billy Joe Lord in his 1977 letter to President Carter. The FBI claimed it could not locate him.
As Lord described, Bemis owned a "string of hotels" and was active in Virginia politics. We know now that Gerry Bemiss
matched Lord's description, was Bush's close friend since childhood, and was a first cousing of Henry Hurt's wife!
See: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2735.msg112146.html#msg112146

10
Sorry, but you're the one making bombastic claims - and who keeps running away when asked to back them up.


No, I simply choose not to waste more time posting additional replies to people who've made it clear they have no intention of being credible and accurate in dealing with evidence that refutes their theory. I've provided evidence to back up my argument, and you guys just refuse to acknowledge it but issue all kinds of vacuous denials and evasions.

Disproving the SBT would be a fairly big deal, but all you seem to have is anecdotal evidence of some of your Fetzerite buddies claiming to be able to see something that resembles a bullet hole. Wow.


This is the kind of nonsense I'm talking about. The SBT was disproved long before Fetzer came along. And, Weldon, Mantik, Schaeffer, Horne, etc., broke with Fetzer years ago, after he started peddling the 9/11 Truther craziness.

In addition, the eight witnesses in three different locations who said they saw a bullet hole in the windshield have nothing to do with any "Fetzerite buddies."

Why can't you simply produce an actual image showing what you say it "undisputedly" does? (The answer should be obvious to anyone with half a brain.)

And you wonder why I don't keep posting replies to your ilk after posting several replies in which I document the very evidence you claim doesn't exist. Does "the MPI large-format version of the Zapruder film" ring a bell? The only answer that any of your ilk gave on this point was Mitch Todd's claim that the apparent windshield damage is really just a "specular highlight."

It is just comical that you would get on a public board and pretend to have any credibility while in the same breath arguing that the SBT has not been disproven. Ever after the ARRB disclosures about the absolute, visually confirmed no-exit determination at the autopsy, and even after Knott Lab's 2023 SBT trajectory analysis, the most sophisticated and data-intensive analysis ever done, refuted the SBT, you guys still cling to it.

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