JFK Assassination Forum

Here is the full quote from the Cray book about the alleged conversation.



And this:



Question: If the claim is that WC was ordered not to look into any Soviet involvement why did Warren say there was great pressure to show there was no Soviet involvement? Wouldn't he say we were told not to look for any? Here he is saying something different; they were pressured to show - not hide - any Soviet involvement.

Full book is here: https://archive.org/details/chiefjusticebiog0000cray/page/428/mode/2up

Thanks for that, Steve. Like the infamous Katzenbach "convince the public" memo, I think you can look at the language in various ways, Cui bono? pointed so obviously to the Soviets (in light of Oswald's background) that I think it would have been unrealistic to say "Don't look into it." I take what Warren was saying by "show" was "Look into it but make sure you conclude there was no Soviet involvement."

John’s posts got me sounding like I think LBJ was involved in the JFKA, whereas my first post hopefully makes clear that I think precisely the opposite was the case.

One of the truly fascinating things about the JFKA is that (1) the LN narrative says a mixed-up nobody had a brain fart and killed JFK for no clear reason, but (2) so many, many powerful individuals and groups hated JFK for diverse reasons and stood to benefit from his death that Cui bono? points all over the map and it’s almost impossible to believe none of them had any involvement. Ya gotta love it.

Speculation about LBJ began immediately, which is precisely why the WC was under “great pressure” to exonerate him. They did so only half-assedly, by concluding Oswald acted alone.

This all reminded me of a fascinating little book I wasn’t aware of until perhaps three years ago, when I stumbled upon a 2005 thread at the Ed Forum in which John Simkin mentioned it as having possibly solved the JFKA before the WR was even issued. See https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/2846-thomas-buchanan-did-he-solve-the-jfk-case/#comment-18261. Simkin’s first post is well worth reading, especially for the curious way the book came about (involving the author being contacted by a concerned staffer at the WC, who put him in touch with Ted Kennedy, who put him in touch with Nicholas Katzenbach).

The book is Who Killed Kennedy? by Thomas G. Buchanan. It was published in Europe in May 1964 – first having been serialized in a French newspaper the previous month – and later published in a revised version in the U.S. Because I’m fussy, I tracked down the European original on Advanced Book Exchange.

Buchanan was no wacko. He was a respected journalist, novelist, and civil rights advocate who was blacklisted after joining the Communist Party. https://thomasgbuchanan.com/biography/ Indeed, CIA Director John McCone encouraged Earl Warren to take a close look at Who Killed Kennedy? and deal with the claims. Warren suggested having Buchanan testify, which McCone discouraged because it would obviously give Buchanan a wider forum for his claims.

Who Killed Kennedy? was, of necessity, highly speculative and demonstrably incorrect in some details. The basic thesis is that JFK was killed by ultra-rightwing Texas oil millionaires who were incensed by JFK’s plan to eliminate their fantastically profitable oil-depletion allowance. The book is Texas, Texas, Texas. What’s interesting is that Buchanan realizes his thesis logically implicates LBJ but pointedly doesn’t “go there,” at least by name. As I recall, he posits a mastermind called Mr. X who is pretty clearly LBJ.

Oh, yes, plenty of people were focusing on LBJ early on. That’s my only point. If you haven’t read it, Who Killed Kennedy? in its European version is fascinating as one of the earliest (pre-WR) conspiracy tomes and one that is still highly regarded. Here's the European version, readily available at Advanced Book Exchange. The U.S. edition is on Amazon, but it's quite different.

TG-

Yes, I suspect LHO was waved through at the Russian border on some sort of sign from whoever the border guards worked for.

It is speculation, of course, but a good guess is LHO was a de facto KGB asset, working for Bruce Solie, himself a de facto KGB asset.

Did de Mohrenschildt induce or encourage LHO to take a potshot at Gen. Walker? The "hunter of fascists ha-ha-ha" BYP photo? Did LHO prove his mettle by doing so?

Then, LHO meets with KGB wetworks man Kostikov in MC, and two other KGB'ers. And pals round with G2 in MC too.

Castro publicly states in September the Kennedy brothers could find out what goes around comes around, when it come to assassination attempts.

Interesting.

So I guess Castro got LHO the job at the TSBD so that he would be in position to assassinate JFK during a motorcade that had not even been planned.

In hindsight, they should have offered better protection, like riding constantly on the Limo.
Clint Hill was at different stages of the Parade riding on the Limo, but should have been there 100% of the time. And if IIRC JFK's side was partially ridden on as well.
And Greer ASAP should have put the pedal to the metal.



JohnM

In defense of the Secret Service, JFK did not like having the agents ride on the back bumper. Apparently, he thought it was a bad visual. He never ordered them to stay off the back bumper, but he expected them to use their discretions when doing so. I'm guessing the photo of Clint Hill on the back bumper was taken somewhere on Main St when the crowds started encroaching onto the street and were getting too close for comfort. There's an overhead photo of Greer opening the car door part way to force the spectators to back up.

Apparently, the Secret Service agents did not recognize the first sound as being a gunshot. We can speculate why that was but it's possible the roar of the motorcycles accelerating out of the sharp turn onto Elm St. partially muted the sound of the first shot. Clint Hill only remembered hearing 2 shots which tell me he either didn't hear the first shot or could not identify it as a gunshot. When he heard the second shot and saw JFK raise his arms up to his throat level, he started to race toward the limo. Altgens 6 shows us he did not take off until about two seconds after JFK was hit. That seems like a rather slow response time, but it's not surprising he would take that long to figure out what was happening. The photo also shows us the two agents on the other side of the limo were still looking back at the TSBD. Neither of them ever made a move toward the limo even after JFK was shot.

So, yes, the Secret Service response time was slow. I'm sure the agents were trained on what to do in various scenarios, but nothing can prepare one for the actual event when it happens suddenly and unexpectedly. Had the agents immediately recognized what was happening when the first shot was fired and started racing toward the limo immediately, they might have got there in time to prevent the 3rd shot from killing JFK. Had he only been hit in the upper torso, that would have been a serious wound, but he likely would have survived. For many years after the assassination, Clint Hill felt guilty that he did not react sooner than he did. I've always wondered whether the other agents on the running boards had the same feelings of guilt.

  The above, "shoulda woulda" scenario is comically uninformed. SA Clint Hill was SPECIFICALLY Assigned to protect Jackie Kennedy. Why do you think he was climbing onto the Limo Trunk DIRECTLY behind Jackie Kennedy? Clint Hill was hitting the "hard stuff" the night previous. Other SS Agents were too. Personally, I believe what you are labeling as a "slow response time", is what Joe 6 Pack calls a "hang over". The SS is held to an exceptionally high standard. Those numerous SS Agents downing the "Who Hit John" the night before, failed miserably at even coming close to this high bar.   

Here is the full quote from the Cray book about the alleged conversation.



And this:



Question: If the claim is that WC was ordered not to look into any Soviet involvement why did Warren say there was great pressure to show there was no Soviet involvement? Wouldn't he say we were told not to look for any? Here he is saying something different; they were pressured to show - not hide - any Soviet involvement.

Full book is here: https://archive.org/details/chiefjusticebiog0000cray/page/428/mode/2up