JFK Assassination Forum

Too rapid to have both been fired by Oswald. Either those witnesses were wrong or there were two gunmen. I know which one I am betting on.

That is an interesting comment.  We know from other evidence that Oswald was deeply involved and we know that there is very little likelihood of, and no evidence of, anyone else being involved. We also know from the three men just below the SN on the sixth floor that all shots came from the same location.  So we know that the was only one person shooting and that person was Oswald and no other.  We both agree on that.

But the SBT scenario has many problems that feed conspiracy theories, so CTs persist.  And they convince many using just this argument: there is too much evidence that conflicts with the SBT and the only alternative is multiple shooters.   

And it is not just the shot pattern or the fact that JFK was reported by everyone watching him to have reacted to the first shot, or the many reports that do not fit a first shot before z186. It is also a problem with the condition of CE399 after allegedly pulverizing JBC's fifth rib and doing this to the forearm:

while still looking like this:


And there's more.  The trajectory at z222 doesn't begin to work because even with JFK as far right as possible, the bullet exits 8 inches left of the wall of the car on JFK's right side and travels another 5 inches farther left before passing the plane of the jump seat.  So JBC's right armpit has to be 13 inches inside that wall.  The most extreme position proposed for JBC is 8 inches or 20 cm.  Not nearly enough. 

And then you have the problem of z230-270 being the only time JBC makes any attempt to see JFK. Before then, he never turns his head to look at JFK. 

And then there is a the problem of a phantom missed first shot for which there is absolutely no physical evidence. There is also no clear witness evidence that it missed - and a lot of witness evidence that it did not miss.

And there's even more.  There is the problem with the evidence that Tague was struck by a fragment from the second shot (not the first, not the third) which is corroborated by Greer sensing an impact inside the car on the second shot and no other.

So for you to maintain that all of these independent bodies of evidence must be completely wrong and does not at least provide a consistent rational alternative to the SBT (although one with which you still can disagree) is difficult to understand.  Is it not time to admit that there are at least two possible ways that Oswald could have fired all three shots? 

I don't recall ever having used the head turns of the limo occupants as evidence of anything.

I guess it was the other John Corbett who said (April 19/post #30 in this thread):

• "I'm all for that. JBC's sworn testimony is evidence. I don't put complete faith in eye and earwitnesses unless they can be corroborated. JBC said he turned and looked over his right shoulder in reaction to a shot that sounded to him came from the right rear and from an elevated position. We see JBC start to turn to look over his right shoulder beginning at Z164. That's corroboration. That tells us the shot came before Z164."
• "He started his reaction at Z164. The first shot came before that unless you want to argue he was anticipating the first shot."

I have not suggested that all that evidence must be wrong. I have stated that your cherry-picked witnesses who put the last two shots close together are wrong.

Again, this is not cherry picking. It is rational reasoning.  It is you who is cherry picking.  There are three possibilities of shot pattern. This is the witness distribution of those three possibilities:
,
So choosing the one with the least (6) witnesses is NOT cherry picking but choosing the one with by far the most (47) is? Explain that reasoning!

This is your turn to dismiss what a witness said. JBC said he was facing almost forward when he felt the bullet hit him in the back. That pretty much blows your theory out of the water. We know he wasn't shot in the back at Z271 because that would have been impossible with JBC facing Oswald at that frame.

Yes, but he wasn't sure how he was facing. That is understandable.   So one looks to other evidence to see if JBC's vague recollection of where he thought he was facing was correct.  Not a single witness supports him facing forward at the time of the second shot.

Nellie said he was turned round to the right when hit by the second shot. Gayle Newman said JBC was turned sideways when the shot occurred.

And that, of course, fits with the recollection of 21+ witnesses who said that the first shot caused JFK to react.  Another 15 or 16 said that the first shot occurred at a time that is inconsistent with any time before z186, which means that JFK was hit by the first shot.  And the vast majority said that the last two shots were closer together and many said in rapid succession. Altgens said that his z255 photo was after the first and before any other shots. Hickey said he was turned forward looking at JFK for the last two shots, yet he is still facing rearward in Altgens z255 photo. etc.   So not only do no witnesses corroborate JBC's vague recollection of where he was facing when he felt the second shot, the witnesses say he was turned around sideways.  And those witnesses are supported by the shot timing evidence that put the second shot at a time when he WAS turned sideways.

Here we go again with a cherry-picket uncorroborated witness. You have built a house of cards with these flawed accounts of what happened.

Again, in what universe is choosing 6 out of 63 not cherry picking but choosing 47 out of 63 is? 

Kind of like this at Z245:
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z245.jpg

Yes. But also z270. Definitely NOT z222-230.

More pointless anomaly "spotting" by Royell Storing! The limo 100% clearly accelerates in the Zapruder film after the head shot.

  "Accelerates"? Cars "accelerate" out of a simple turn all day, every day. That is Not, "jumping out of the G.D. street", as ASAIC Kellerman testified. 

If there's any disinformation, perhaps it comes from comments suggesting Royell is in league with Putin - and from constantly pushing a Russia narrative which appears to be a diversion from investigating other more likely culprits. 

You are the worst JFK photo "analyst" to come around in decades.. congratulations!

Interesting that McIntyre left the backup car temporarily as it was proceeding under the overpass.

        McIntyre almost falling off of the Queen Mary (L) running board strikes to the heart of a currently active thread on this Forum. That thread addresses the smell of "gunpowder" and whether SA Hickey possibly firing the AR-15 was responsible for the "gunpowder" odor. We need to remember that McIntyre was standing on the rear of the (L) running board. This placed McIntyre right next to SA Hickey who was sitting in the (L) Backseat of the Queen Mary. McIntyre being right next to SA Hickey, would also place McIntyre right next to the AR-15 held by SA Hickey. SA Hickey waving around a just fired AR-15 may have put the Hot Barrel of that rifle within inches of McIntyre. This may account for McIntyre almost falling off of the running board as the Queen Mary neared the Triple Underpass. McIntyre was startled.

Dear Royell,

As I've told you before, "former" KGB counterintelligence officer Vladimir Putin cherishes the nation-rending disinformation you and others of your ilk spew on forums like this.

Keep up the good work, Sonderführer Storing!

-- Tom

If there's any disinformation, perhaps it comes from comments suggesting Royell is in league with Putin - and from constantly pushing a Russia narrative which appears to be a diversion from investigating other more likely culprits.   

Here's what "rends a nation":

A lack of truth and justice
The cover-up of a president's assassination
A lack of transparency and withholding the release of classified documents for decades
A top law enforcement official making this statement just hours after the assassination: “The thing I am concerned about is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin.” (dictated by J. Edgar Hoover November 24, 1963) - no further investigation, no due process...

Yeah, these are the things that are "nation-rending"...