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1
BD-

Unfortunately when it comes to JFKA-land, the ideology writes the agenda, and the agenda writes the narrative.

Foreign social influencers, from Moscow to Tehran, are in the mix.

Sheesh, some of the left-wing Brits are representatives from the Islamo-green marriage.

Guess what narratives they promote?
2

No one ran to the underpass until DPD police officer Clyde Haygood ran there, following a radio transmission from Chief Curry to "Get men on top of that over-underpass, see what happened up there!  Go up to that overpass!"  Haygood can be seen parking his motorcycle at the north west curb in the Robert Hughes film.   The knoll is completely void of spectators, except for he and he alone running there, and climbing up onto the concrete abutment of the underpass where he began scanning the area.

 Furthermore, a photograph taken by Wilma Bond reveals Haygood as he reaches the underpass.  It wasn't until after he reached the underpass that people saw him running to that location and began to follow him up the knoll.  Haygood led the chase up the knoll following Chief Curry's transmission to go there.
3

I have seen some really stupid posts by Griffith, but this one takes the cake! 
I usually don't read his tripe, but this one caught my eye because of its special type of absurdity.
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JFK Assassination & General Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 03:52:03 AM »
[...]

Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Instead of relying on sketchy, inherently unreliable witness statements, rely on the caught-on-film conscious (i.e., non-startle) reactions of seven prime witness to the sounds of Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot at "Z-124," half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133 after a 17-second pause.

https://d7922adf-f499-4a26-96d4-8ab2d521fa35.usrfiles.com/ugd/d7922a_e280e26982b44f2c97c6e6e27026e385.pdf

-- Tom
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Very informative Fred, thank you. You’ve done a nice job exposing the claptrap in JFK the movie, and beyond.

Quite the contrary, Fred does not have a clue, especially since he's using Patricia Lambert to support his theories....

I followed the late Tom Purvis's posts and whaddya know, it turned out his was the only plausible explanation.
Quote
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20298&p=275914
    Thomas H. Purvis – Posted 19 July 2013
    …….
    The “power structure” within New Orleans lies not with those who are currently in what is some temporary political position.

    It lies with those who possess the capability to place these persons in the various political positions…

***********
-snip-
PLEASE BEAR IN MIND THAT THE FACTS I'VE PRESENTED IN THIS THREAD SUPPORT TOM PURVIS'S OPINION GARRISON, TOM BETHELL, HIS FRIEND NICHOLAS LEMANN, HIS UNCLE, STEPHEN B. LEMANN, AND "THE CIA PEOPLE" AUTHOR JOAN MELLEN DESCRIBED TO REX BRADFORD IN A 2006 INTERVIEW, WERE ALL ON THE SAME SIDE, the smokescreen side.
-snip-
************

Quote
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/5238-jim-garrison-and-oliver-stone/page/4/
Tom H. Purvis  Posted October 30, 2005

By the time Garrison got into this boat and started his "rowing", many of the problems associated with the WC solution to the assassination were well known.

Garrison merely played upon these concepts and thereafter pushed the theories into the "big" conspiracy/multiple assassin scenario.

And, in so doing, he so discredited the subject matter to the extent that it became a joke!

In addition to this, Garrison's "Witch Hunt" effectively guilded everyone to looking at "his hand" of smoke and mirrors, while the simple facts were quite available for anyone in New Orleans who desired to follow up on exactly WHO Lee Harvey Oswald was.

"Smoke & Mirrors" & "Watch this Hand".---------------------The Garrison Legacy.

As to "disliking" Garrison. Quite the contrary! He has my admiration and respect.

Of course, I have always had respect for a "good" con-man, and for that matter, anyone who "snookers" members of the general public so well that he still has his "followers" & "true-believers" long after he is dead and gone.

The Man deserves an EMMY!

"There is a moral obligation to take advantage of all suckers"------------W.C. Fields
6
JFK Assassination & General Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Dan O'meara on Today at 02:37:45 AM »
There are a number of different ways to demonstrate that the first shot occurred around z222/z223. Here's one thanks to the work of Pat Speer and Mark Tyler. It concerns the witness statements of the occupants of the Vice-Presidential car and the Vice-Presidential follow-up car. From these statements it is possible to glean an approximate position for each car at the time of the first shot and from these approximate positions it is possible rule out various theories regarding the first shot.
I looked at a number of theories put forward for when the first shot occurred in relation to the Z-Film:

z133 (and before)
z160
z190
z222/z223 (my own proposal for the first shot)

First, a look at the statements:

VICE PRESIDENTIAL CAR

Hurchel Jacks [Driver] -
"My car had just straightened up from making the left turn. I was looking directly at the President’s car at that time. At that time I heard a shot ring out..."

Rufus Youngblood [Passenger Seat] -
"The motorcade then made a left turn, and the sidewalk crowds
were beginning to diminish in size. I observed a grassy plot to my right in back of a small crowd...I heard an explosion…"

"As we were beginning to go down this incline, all of a sudden there was an explosive noise."
"We had straightened on Elm now and were beginning to move easily down the incline in the wake of the cars ahead. Suddenly there was an explosive noise..."

Senator Yarborough [back left] - 
“as the motorcade went down the slope of Elm Street toward the railroad underpass, a rifle shot was heard by me; a loud blast..."

Lady Bird Johnson [back centre] - 
“we were rounding a curve, going down a hill and suddenly there was a sharp loud report..."
"...suddenly in that brilliant sunshine there was a sharp rifle shot. It  came, I thought, from over my right shoulder."

Lyndon Johnson [back right] - 
"After we had proceeded a short way down Elm Street, I heard a sharp report."

VICE-PRESIDENTIAL FOLLOW-UP CAR

Joe Henry Rich [Driver] -
“We turned off of Houston Street onto Elm Street and that was when I heard the first shot."


Cliff Carter [passenger seat]  - 
"...our car had just made the left hand turn onto Elm and was right along side of the Texas School Book Depository Building when I heard a noise which sounded like a firecracker."

Jerry Kivett [back right] - 
"As the motorcade was approximately 1/3 the way to the underpass, traveling between 10 and 15 miles per hour, I heard a loud noise..."

Warren Taylor [back centre] -
“Our automobile had just turned a corner (the names of the streets are unknown to me) when I heard a bang which sounded to me like a possible firecracker —the sound coming from my right rear."

Thomas (Lem) Johns [back right] - 
"We turned onto Elm Street...We were going downhill...which put the Texas Book Depository on our right, more or less...But we were going down this Elm Street, with my door open. I heard at least two shots.."


10 witnesses in 2 vehicles all corroborating each others statements. Not one or two ambiguous statements open to any kind of interpretation. Every single occupant of both cars are stating, basically, the same thing - at the time of the first shot these cars had turned off Houston Street and were travelling down Elm.
I now turn to the work of Mark Tyler to compare how these statements support or refute the various theories put forward.

Z133



In the image above the Vice-Presidential car is marked 7 and the follow-up car 8. It is obvious from this image that both vehicles are still on Houston at the time of this proposed first shot and, as such, a shot around z133 (or before) is absolutely refuted by the 10 witness statements.

Z160



Again, we can clearly see that, although car 7 is well into it's turn, car 8 is still on Houston. The theory of a first shot around z160 is refuted.

Z190



It can be said that car 7 is now travelling down Elm but car 8 is still to complete the turn as specified by the occupants of this car and, as such, a shot around z190 is refuted by the witness statements.

Z222/Z223



My own proposal.
It can be seen from the above image that both cars are now travelling on Elm after having completed the turn off Houston. There can be no doubt that this is the only theory that comes anywhere close to fitting the witness statements of the 10 occupants of these vehicles.
Yet further corroboration, if any were needed, that the first shot was the one that struck JFK in the throat around z222/z223.
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JFK Assassination & General Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Dan O'meara on Today at 02:32:22 AM »
JBC specifically described reacting to the first shot also and we see that reaction at Z164, about 5 seconds before Altgens 6.

Take another look at the Z-film. The four motorcycles were even with the front bumper of the Queen Mary. The agents were closer to the motorcycles than JBC was.
JFK wanted to be seen by the crowds. That would not have been possible if the motorcycles were pacing the limo.

It's just stuff you're making up.
Do you even realise that?

JBC does NOT react to a shot at z164. That's just you making stuff up.
The sound of the shot was not drowned out by the bikes. That's just you making stuff up.
Altgens 6 showing Landis, Ready and Hickey reacting to the first shot as they said they did, is not making stuff up.

What if every single person we can see in the follow-up vehicle in Altgens 6 is reacting to the first shot as they said they did, would that change your opinion?
8
Barb Junkkarinens disproved the Altgens 6 windshield crack years ago. Can Michael T. Griffith be man enough to admit he’s very wrong and that the whole purpose of starting this thread is moot?

If MTG were to admit he was wrong, that would take a heap of admissions.
9
Made up nonsense.

Each agent specifically describes reacting to the first shot and the reactions they describe are those we see in Altgens 6.
Your made up opinion has no basis in evidence or common sense. Your argument is nonsense - the agents who were closer to the shot and not surrounded by motorcycles had the sound of the shot drowned out by the bikes when JBC, who was further away and was surrounded by motorbikes, didn't.
Just baloney.

The agents were reacting to the first shot, just as they reported.
In fact, the initial reports of every person in the car to the first shot is reflected in Altgens 6

JBC specifically described reacting to the first shot also and we see that reaction at Z164, about 5 seconds before Altgens 6.

Take another look at the Z-film. The four motorcycles were even with the front bumper of the Queen Mary. The agents were closer to the motorcycles than JBC was.
JFK wanted to be seen by the crowds. That would not have been possible if the motorcycles were pacing the limo.
10
JFK Assassination & General Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Dan O'meara on Today at 12:36:46 AM »
Remember it's Lattimer's theory that it was the rib fragments and tissue exploding/exiting/ejecting from Connally's chest that caused the bulge not the bullet. Critics point to the exit hole in Connally's jacket to say the hole was too low to cause the lapel/jacket bulge. I think they are right. But if the jacket bulge/pop out was caused by fragments higher up, it would, theoretically work.

As to time element: The article is a bit difficult to read but I don't see any reference to the timing between the two. I would think it would have been too quick to capture on the Z film. The jacket is 3-4 inches away from the body? I would think any rib fragments/bullet going through would take less than 1/18 of a second.

The single bullet explanation has its flaws but the alternative explanations or theories are worse. The olde "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Connally's shirt:

An excellent post explaining why we see JBC's jacket bulge in the Z-film.
We see the right side of his jacket bulge outward in a fraction of a second.
A bullet passes through his body blasting bone fragments into the right side of his jacket.
This fact alone should allow us to confidently pinpoint when the bullet passed through JBC.
Let alone his sudden thrashing around, the twisting of his body, rapid hand movements, all within a fraction of a second.
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