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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 06:16:54 AM »
It is not just Altgens.  There were at least 47 witnesses who said the last two shots were close together and another 20 said the first shot was when JFK was farther down Elm Street than his position at z180 and another 25 said JFK visibly reacted to the first shot.  All corroborate Altgens.

JFK visibly reacted to Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot by very quickly turning his head towards Jackie in Z-143 and then quickly turning it back to his right to look at and wave to the spectators.

Of course, he reacted a lot more noticeably when he leaned forward and to his left and "clutched at his throat" after he and then JBC were struck by CE-399 around Z-222.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 06:05:35 AM »
Over eighty witnesses provided evidence that is inconsistent with a shot at that point. Even Croft said his photo was not only before the first shot, but he had time to wind his camera and get ready to take another before the first shot.

"Evidence," my you-know-what.

The first shot at "Z-124" sounded different from the other two, probably because the muzzle of Oswald's short-rifle was inside the building for the steeply-downward-angled shot when he fired it.

A lot of people thought it was just another motorcycle backfire, or a firecracker, or even a tire blowout. That, and the fact that Dealy Plaza is an echo chamber, threw off a lot of people. Unfortunately, eighty of them provided their mistaken opinions.

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So, your insistence that they were all independently, wrong but mutually consistent with each other because you can read Jackie's face in the Croft photo is difficult to understand.

Is English your second language?

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In any event, face reading is not a science and is nothing more than speculation with zero evidentiary or persuasive value.

You said the reason Jackie turned her head far to her left between Z-145 and Z-161 is because "she was acknowledging the crowd."

If that was the case, why wasn't she smiling and/or waving in the Robert Croft photo?

Why did she look so concerned?

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IF Secret Service Agent George Hickey was leaning over the side of the car [between Z-150 and Z-170], it must have been to get a better look at something unrelated to a rifle shot, possibly people who were standing in the roadway.

I guess you haven't seen how far down he was leaning in Z-160.

Maybe he was barfing, or picking up some litter, right?

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z160.jpg
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: The First Shot
« Last post by Andrew Mason on Today at 04:44:11 AM »
A lot of people were there and they gave different versions of what happened and some of them have to be wrong because they can't all be right. You've never understood that.
It is not just Altgens.  There were at least 47 witnesses who said the last two shots were close together and another 20 said the first shot was when JFK was farther down Elm Street than his position at z180 and another 25 said JFK visibly reacted to the first shot.  All corroborate Altgens.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Last post by Andrew Mason on Today at 04:37:12 AM »
Just to take one example from your litany of lame rationalizations, you say "Jackie moved [turned, to be more precise] her head [to her left starting at Z-145] to acknowledge the crowd."

Rhetorical question: Is that why she had a concerned look on her face as she was looking directly at Robert Croft in his well-known Z-161 photograph?

Seems like a strange way to "acknowledge the crowd."

Over 80 witnesses provided evidence that is inconsistent with a shot at that point. Even Croft said his photo was not only before the first shot, but he had time to wind his camera and get ready to take another before the first shot. So your insistence that they were all, independently, wrong but mutually consistent with each other because you can read her face is difficult to understand.  In any event, face reading is not a science and is nothing more than speculation with zero evidentiary or persuasive value.

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By the way, you never gave a rational answer to my question:

Why did Secret Service Agent George Hickey lean so far over the side of the car, and when did he begin that motion?

Since there hadn’t been a shot, if he was leaning out it must have been to get a better look at something unrelared to a rifle shot, possibly people who were standing in the roadway.
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If big-tall, black-blouse-and-black-headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery and her all-in-white colleague, Carol Reed, are seen standing about fifty yards down Elm Street in Zapruder and end up on the TSBD steps in Couch/Darnell, they must have run to the steps after the fatal headshot.

Correct.

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Graves, you forgot to credit me for identifying Joe Molina as the man who's facing Calvery on the steps.

Just curious:

As Credit Manager at the TSBD, didn't Joe wear a suit every day?
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Things I don't care about
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 03:49:57 AM »
[...]

Jefferson "Yuri Nosenko Was a True Defector!!" Morley's "JFK Facts" (sic).
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The point is being avoided that if Calvery & Reed are seen in the Newsweek enlargements of Zapruder in the motorcade spectators and then end up on the front steps in Couch/Darnell that they ran there in between...

Graves...You forgot to credit me for Molina facing Calvery on the steps...
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What is obvious is the much higher "Burden Of Proof" required on this Forum.

That statement is contradicted by the fact that you and your CT ilk spew virtual diarrhea here several times a day.
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Dear Stormtrooper Storing,

I love it when two tinfoil-hat CTs like you and Doyle argue with each other!

-- Tom

   What is obvious is the much higher "Burden Of Proof" required on this Forum. 
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: When Was JBC Hit?
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 02:32:18 AM »
The clearest reaction [to the first, missing-everything, shot] is JBC's head turn [back to his right] at Z-164. A shot at theoretical Z-124 would have been heard by him at theoretical Z-126. That's 38 frames, or just over two seconds.

Between Z-133 and Z-143, JFK is looking at the spectators to his right (and either waving to them or brushing his hair back), as is JBC, who is just looking at them.

In Z-143, JFK starts turning his head quickly towards Jackie and then turns it quickly back to his right, towards the spectators.

At Z-150, JBC quickly turns his head to his left about 45 degrees and is "captured" looking almost straight ahead in the Z-161 Robert Croft photo.

In Z-164, JBC starts turning his head quickly back to his right about 120 degrees to try to catch a glimpse of JFK over his right shoulder, but he can't "see" (i.e., recognize) him because by Z-180 JFK has turned his head far to his right and has raised his hand and forearm to wave to someone, thereby partially obscuring JBC's (peripheral) view of his face.

Point being: JBC consciously reacted to Oswald's "Z-124" shot about 1.31 seconds after hearing it, not "just over two seconds" after hearing it.
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