JFK Assassination Forum

Fortunately for all of us, I have already applied logic and critical thinking to the JFKA. See if you recognize anyone. In fact, I may have had MTG in mind when I originally wrote this.

It is hilarious that you would cite that silly drivel as "logic and critical thinking." I note that you did not say one single word about any of the facts in my post.
 
To save any newcomers some time, Lance Payette argues that conspiracy theorists suffer from a mental disorder, from defective brains, from warped thinking, etc. He says it's not really their fault but that their brains are just wired to conjure up conspiracies where there are none. Seriously, that is his position.

Here are just a few of the people who must suffer from warped thinking because they believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy:

* Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna (R-FL), chairwoman of the U.S. House of Representatives' Task Force on the Declassification of Federal Secrets.

* Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., one of JFK's nephews, a famous environmental lawyer, and currently the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services.

* Dan Hardaway, former HSCA investigator who investigated Oswald's activity in Mexico City for the HSCA.

* Edwin Lopez, former HSCA investigator who investigated Oswald's activity in Mexico City for the HSCA. He and Hardaway found evidence that someone was impersonating Oswald in Mexico City a few months before the assassination.

* Dr. Roger McCarthy, a ballistics expert with Failure Analysis, which assisted with the
American Bar Association's mock Oswald trials in the 1990s.

* Dr. David Kaiser, a former professor of history at the Naval War College, Williams College, Carnegie Mellon University, and Harvard University.

* The late G. Robert Blakey, a professor of law at Notre Dame University who served as the chief counsel for the HSCA.

* The late Gary Cornwell, the former deputy chief counsel for the HSCA and a prosecutor with the U.S. Department of Justice Organized Crime and Racketeering Section for seven years.

* The late Dr. Joseph Dolce, an Army wound ballistics expert who played a leading role in the
WC's wound ballistics tests.

* The late Senator Richard Schweiker.

* Senator Christopher Dodd, who served on the HSCA when he was a member of the
House of Representatives.

* The late Senator Richard Russell, who served on the WC.

* The later Senator Sherman Cooper, who served on the WC.

* The late Representative Hale Boggs, who served on the WC.

* The late Robert McNeil, formerly of the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour on PBS.

* The late Ambassador William Atwood, former Special Assistant to the U.S. delegation to the
United Nations.

* President Lyndon Johnson. (We now know from the Johnson White House tapes that
Johnson rejected the single-bullet theory. We also know from former Johnson aides and
associates that privately Johnson said he believed Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy.)

* The late Dr. Milton Helpern, a renowned forensic pathologist and formerly the medical
examiner for New York City. Helpern said the SBT was impossible.

* The late Dr. John Nichols, a forensic pathologist and formerly a professor of pathology
at the University of Kansas. Nichols, too, said the SBT was impossible.

* The late Carlos Hathcock, a Marine sniper who was widely regarded as the greatest
sniper of the 20th century. Hathcock scoffed at the idea that someone who barely qualified in the second of the three Marine Corps rifle qualification categories could have performed the shooting feat alleged by the WC.

* The late Evelyn Lincoln, who was Kennedy's White House secretary.

* The late Dr. George Burkley, Kennedy's personal physician. Burkley said he knew of evidence that JFK was killed by a conspiracy.

* The late Robert F. Kennedy, who was JFK's brother, who served as JFK's U.S. Attorney General, and who later served as a U.S. Senator from New York. Though he publicly endorsed the WC's findings, he privately rejected them and was certain his brother was killed by a conspiracy.

As I've pointed out before, no wound ballistics test has ever duplicated the SBT.

-- Martin Fackler's 1992 SBT wound ballistics test was fraudulent. First of all, not one of Fackler's test bullets passed through a simulated human neck and then destroyed 4-5 inches of rib bone while tearing through a simulated human chest before striking the cadaver radius bones. Not one.

Let me repeat that so the phony nature of Fackler's test can sink in: Fackler made no effort to simulate a human neck, a human chest, and a rib bone. Not one of his bullets hit anything before they hit the cadaver radius bones. Fackler simply shot cadaver radius bones with bullets whose velocity had been lowered to 1100-1300 FPS!

I suspect Fackler rigged the test because he knew full well that if his test bullets first had had to transit a human neck and then tear through a human chest and demolish 4-5 inches of rib bone in the process, the bullets would have emerged markedly deformed, just as they did in the AAT test and in Lattimer's test.

-- In Dr. Joseph Dolce's SBT test for the WC, even 6.5 mm FMJ bullets fired into cotton wadding emerged with more deformity than CE 399.

-- In the 1967 CBS SBT test, 6.5 mm FMJ bullets that merely passed through a 12-inch gelatin block before hitting cadaver wrists never had enough velocity to penetrate the simulated thigh, and some of them never even managed to exit the wrists.  One of the expert forensic consultants for the CBS test, Dr. W. F. Enos, said the CBS test "disproved" the SBT and that the SBT was "highly improbable" (Mal Jay Hayman, Burying the Lead: The Media and the JFK Assassination, Trine Day LLC, 2019, pp. 214, 218).

-- In the 1992 AAT SBT test, a 6.5 mm FMJ bullet was fired into two gelatin blocks. The second gelatin block contained animal bones to simulate the shattering of a rib bone and the smashing of a wrist bone. The bullet transited the first gelatin block and penetrated deep into the second block and struck the animal bones. It emerged markedly more deformed than CE 399.

-- In Lattimer's SBT test, one of the test bullets was split at the nose in several places and was markedly deformed, much more deformed than CE 399, and this wasn't even one of the bullets that had struck all three simulation objects. When interviewed by Stewart Galanor, Lattimer admitted that he had thrown away all the bullets that hit all three simulation objects. Gee, I wonder why.

Also, the historic 2023 Knott Laboratory SBT trajectory analysis, the most sophisticated and data-intensive SBT trajectory study ever done, determined the SBT is impossible, finding that JFK's and Connally's wounds do not line up in a trajectory back to the sixth-floor window.

Knott Lab's experts conducted a high-definition laser scan of Dealey Plaza to generate a point cloud of up to 2 million points per second, to accurately measure point-to-point anywhere in the scene. Using a 3D laser scanner (Leica RTC360), Knott Lab's experts did 36 laser scans of Dealey Plaza, producing a digital reconstruction of the plaza that has 851 million data points. No other SBT trajectory analysis has included such a detailed, accurate digital model of the plaza and of JFK's and Connally's positions in the limousine.

From this point cloud (the digital model of the plaza), Knott Lab's forensic engineers were able to match images from the scene and the Zapruder film using photogrammetry. They modeled the presidential limousine using multiple photographs and established the correct dimensions of the vehicle. Through a process called match moving, they synced frames from the Zapruder film into the digital recreation of the scene. The match moving enabled the alignment of the digital models of Kennedy and Connally in the vehicle to establish their positions frame by frame throughout the incident.

It is worth noting that NASA's Thomas Canning, who did the HSCA's trajectory analysis, had to assume that Connally was several inches farther to the left than the photographic evidence shows he was. Canning's trajectory diagram put one-third of Connally's torso between the seats and had Connally's left shoulder more than halfway to Mrs. Connally's seat (see JFK Exhibit F-144). Even after moving Connally so far to the left, Canning had to admit that the trajectory lines of JFK's and Connally's wounds "do not coincide," a problem that Canning attributed to "experimental error."

Moreover, Canning assumed that Connally was hit at Z190. He did so (1) because the Photographic Evidence Panel correctly determined that the first bullet that hit JFK was fired at right around Z188-190, and (2) because he was forced to assume the single-bullet theory was correct.

By necessity you are implying something when you claim he wasn't shot.  If he wasn't hit by a bullet, that means he must have been struck by something else.  You can't have it both ways.  His ear didn't just spontaneously start bleeding at the moment of the assassination. I can understand why you don't want to validate that claim.  It is baseless and contrary the known facts.  There is no plausible alternative.  There is not even an implausible alternative.  Your purpose is to imply something negative in an effort to diminish Trump's heroic behavior.  You can't just say it was a miracle that he wasn't killed and his image in the aftermath is iconic.  TDS 101.

Does a AR-15 bullet travel at 3200 ft per sec or not?
  You can't have it both ways.

Fortunately for all of us, I have already applied logic and critical thinking to the JFKA. See if you recognize anyone. In fact, I may have had MTG in mind when I originally wrote this.

I originally created this in 2019. My exchange with Paul Cummings today made me think about it again. I’m surprised at how little my thinking has changed. The original is buried in the bowels of the Ed Forum, so I’m just creating a new thread to preserve it for posterity. I was actually going to write a book because I thought John McAdams’ JFK Assassination Logic: How to Think About Claims of Conspiracy was pretty weak. But then I said the hell with it.

1. In the Conspiracy Game, there are a variety of acceptable approaches to the interpretation of evidence. Say, for example, that three eyewitnesses report, respectively, a “bluish” car, a “reddish” car and a “maroon” car, or that three documents describe a bullet wound in “the right shoulder,” “about 4” down from the neck” and “high up in the back.” In the Conspiracy Game, there are three possible approaches to this evidence:

a. There were three cars and three wounds on the body, if this will further your pet Conspiracy Theory.

b. There was one reddish car and one wound 4” down from the neck, if this will further your pet Conspiracy Theory. (The eyewitnesses and documents that say otherwise may serve as further evidence of the conspiracy if you’re sufficiently creative.)

c. The car was actually black, the wound was actually in the side of the head, all the eyewitnesses are lying and all the documents are bogus, if this will best fit your pet Conspiracy Theory.

d. The choice is made without regard to which eyewitnesses or documents are the most reliable according to the applicable legal standards or which explanation best fits with the other evidence. The choice is made solely on the basis of which one best fits your pet Conspiracy Theory.

2. As your pet Conspiracy Theory – three cars and three wounds, for example – is repeated over and over, it pretty quickly hardens into Conspiracy Gospel. It’s extremely rude of anyone to go back to the original sources to see if this Conspiracy Gospel is supported by, consistent with, or the best explanation of the actual evidence.

3. If some nugget of Conspiracy Gospel is conclusively disproven – for example, photos or videos come to light that show the car was definitely red rather than black – the Conspiracy Theorist has three alternatives:

a. Claim that the new evidence is faked or altered, thereby preserving the black car nugget of Conspiracy Gospel.

b. Move the goal post. Move it as many times as necessary. There was a red car as well as a black one that doesn’t show up in the photos, perhaps. Maybe the car was repainted. Or even if the car was red, this just shows that two of the supposed eyewitness were lying and involved in the conspiracy. Who were they, really, and what were they up to?

c. If your nugget is reduced to rubble beyond all redemption, change the subject. This is the “Oh, yeah, well what about this over here?” gambit, an accepted move in the Conspiracy Game. The nugget that has now gone poof was never really important anyway.

d. Choices “a” and “b” afford a Conspiracy Theorist almost endless opportunities for creativity, which is a big part of the fun of the Conspiracy Game. It thus is utterly futile to attempt to argue or reason with a dedicated Conspiracy Theorist.

4. All gaps in the narrative, whether evidentiary or logical, are filled with sinister speculation and sinister inferences. As your pet Conspiracy Theory expands like Topsy, as it inevitably will, it’s especially important to keep this principle in mind. It’s quite amazing the gaps you can fill with such speculation. In the hands of a Conspiracy Game master, a plausible Conspiracy Theory may be woven from almost nothing else.

5. In the Conspiracy Game, human nature is inoperative.

a. No one ever makes an innocent mistake, is ever simply careless or is ever honestly confused or forgetful. There is no bureaucratic ineptitude. Every inconsistency in the evidence and testimony has a sinister, conspiracy-furthering explanation.

b. The fact that the JFKA was sudden, wholly unanticipated and traumatic is irrelevant. Even in these circumstances, no one ever makes an innocent mistake or becomes honestly confused. There are no excuses.

c. No matter the circumstances, all participants should have made their statements, written their reports and done everything else with one eye on “how it would look” to future generations of historians and (especially) conspiracy enthusiasts. If they didn’t, too bad for them.

6.The actual characters and life histories of the participants and witnesses are irrelevant in the Conspiracy Game except insofar as they further your pet Conspiracy Theory. If a participant or witness whose testimony is damaging to your Conspiracy Theory is a garden-variety housewife and mother who attends church regularly, is active in community affairs and has lots of friends who vouch for her impeccable reputation, the Conspiracy Theorist has three choices:

a. Of course, she is clean as a whistle – this is exactly what you would expect in a truly diabolical conspiracy such as we have here. These conspirators were no fools.

b. Dig, dig, dig for something, anything. Her second cousin twice removed was a secretary for the FBI? Well, there you go! Need we say more?

c. Make something up! Speculate! Everyone is fair game for defamation and character assassination. While these may be illegal or unethical in the real world, they are just part of the fun of the Conspiracy Game.

7. Even though real-world conspiracies tend to be as small, simple and compartmentalized as possible because this greatly enhances the odds of success and non-detection, no Conspiracy Theory can ever be too large or convoluted in the Conspiracy Game.

a. If necessary to preserve your pet Conspiracy Theory, the conspiracy net will be allowed to expand ever-wider until it has captured pretty much everyone involved – unlikely and seemingly unconnected people from all walks of life, unlikely agencies and organizations, whatever it takes. Be sure to keep in mind the rule about sinister speculation and inferences.

b. The fact that the JFKA is “explained” by 15 or more distinct and irreconcilable Conspiracy Theories is irrelevant. With the exception of those who are actually deriving income from the Conspiracy Game (who can be quite defensive of their turf), the players in the Conspiracy Game are a fraternal brotherhood, united against that icky Lone Nut narrative. By Conspiracy Logic, the existence of 15 or more irreconcilable theories merely underscores that by God there had to have been a conspiracy.

c. Similarly, the fact that a Conspiracy Theory requires the conspirators to have been diabolical geniuses at steps 1-3-5-7 and bumbling idiots at steps 2-4-6-8 is irrelevant. It’s rude even to point this out.

8. Those who fail to see the conspiracy are never a problem. They either lack the vast arcane knowledge the Conspiracy Brotherhood possesses, are unwitting stooges of the very forces responsible for the conspiracy, or are disinformation agents bent on disrupting the Conspiracy Game.

a. No matter how sterling the academic and professional qualifications of a naysayer, no matter how exhaustive his research may appear to be, no matter how cogent his arguments may seem, he is dismissed as either a fool or a disinformation agent – usually the latter because paranoia about disinformation agents is an integral part of the Conspiracy Game.

b. As a last resort, the “disinformation agent” label may be applied even to a fellow member of the Conspiracy Brotherhood when the competition gets fierce.

9. A certain naivete about the real world is helpful when playing the Conspiracy Game.

a. Even though law enforcement in the real world is plagued by wannabes, tellers of tall tales, and even those who confess, for no apparent reason, to crimes they didn’t commit, this almost never occurs in the Conspiracy Game. Anyone whose tale will support your pet Conspiracy Theory is accorded instant credibility. Often this continues long after the tale has been exposed as fraudulent. (If the tale is inconvenient for one’s pet Conspiracy Theory, the “disinformation agent” label may be applied to the teller. As you can see, “disinformation agent” is sort of the trump card of the Conspiracy Game.)

b. Even though fast-buck artists and con men abound in every other field of human endeavor, they do not exist in the Conspiracy Game. Every owner of a large website, every active blogger, every speaker at conspiracy conferences, every purveyor of conspiracy books, CDs, DVDs and conspiracy paraphernalia quickly accumulates a cult-like following as a “serious researcher” even if in the real world he is a Safeway cashier who dropped out of school in the seventh grade.

10. Common sense, logic and critical thinking are anathema in the Conspiracy Game. Conspiracy Logic is more like anti-logic (think Alice In Wonderland).

a. It’s exceedingly rude to ask, either about a Conspiracy Theory as a whole or any aspect if it, questions such as “What would that actually have looked like in the real world?” or “How would that have made any sense at all?” or “Why would the conspirators have done that when they could have easily done this with far fewer participants and far less risk?” You’ll never get any substantive answers anyway.

b. To successfully play the Conspiracy Game, you must become utterly absorbed in, and indeed obsessed with, minutiae. The JFKA must be examined with an electron microscope. The objective is to overwhelm the uninformed with such a mass of detail that they throw up their hands and agree, “Yeah, I guess there must have been some sort of conspiracy” just to shut you up. This will improve poll numbers, thereby causing the Conspiracy Brotherhood to gain credibility. You can scream that “75% of the American public believes in a conspiracy!” as though 75% of the public actually knew or cared what the heck you’re talking about (and would laugh out loud if they knew your pet theory is that Secret Service agent Hickey accidentally shot JFK).

c. The tactic described in item “b” will help avoid inconvenient questions such as those described in item “a.” You want to keep the discussion at the electron microscope level, avoiding like the plague those pesky “What sense would that have made?” questions.

11. The likelihood that you’ll enjoy the Conspiracy Game hinges on a variety of factors.

a. It’s a great advantage if you have a preconceived notion as to how the JFKA “should” be explained. You’ll see that much of the Conspiracy Brotherhood is less concerned with arriving at the historical truth of the JFKA than in fitting it into some ideological meta-narrative they carry in their heads as to how the world “works” and what dark forces are really “in control.” Keep this in mind and you’ll be far less inclined to wonder “How could any sane person actually believe that?” If you are interested in historical truth, arrived at through standard methodologies, the Conspiracy Game may not be for you.

b. It’s likewise beneficial if you fit the profile that is now emerging, through peer-reviewed studies in such fields as psychiatry, psychology and the social sciences, of the type of individual who is prone to conspiratorial explanations even in the face of better non-conspiratorial explanations. This doesn’t mean there is necessarily anything pathologically wrong with you, merely that you’re a natural and could go far in the Conspiracy Game.

c. At the fringes of the Conspiracy Game, of course, it helps if you’re exceedingly credulous and even, well, nuttier than a fruitcake. People who are this way seldom recognize or admit it, but you’ll notice that you quickly feel as though you’ve found a home among kindred spirits.

d. The Conspiracy Brotherhood is essentially a religion. The members worship their respective theories. Many are extreme fundamentalists, others more moderate, others fringe cultists. The various Conspiracy Theories are the equivalent of religious denominations, each with its own priests and deacons, its holy scriptures and sites, and whatnot. This is a useful analogy to keep in mind when the intra-denominational bickering starts to get out of hand. Always remember, the real enemy is that Great Satan, the Lone Nut narrative.

e. Leave your sense of humor at home. Participants in the Conspiracy Game do not regard themselves or their activities as humorous in the slightest. This is deadly serious stuff, being pursued by dedicated seekers of truth for the good of mankind. They have nothing in common - or at least they don't think they do - with those loony UfO enthusiasts, Bigfoot enthusiasts, Flat Earthers and the like. Stifle that urge to titter, chuckle and guffaw at their work or move along.

12. Oh, remember: Do not omit Oswald. This is an amateur mistake. Do not allow your enthusiasm for LBJ, Hoover, the CIA, the FBI, Army Intelligence, the Secret Service, the DPD, Texas oilmen, the Mafia, the Mossad, pro-Castro exiles, anti-Castro exiles, the KGB and/or the French Foreign Legion as the culprits to cause you to completely overlook Oswald. You simply must fit him in there somehow. It is perfectly acceptable - indeed encouraged - to reinvent him as necessary to fit your pet Conspiracy Theory, even if he ends up seeming considerably more interesting than JFK.

a. The same is true of all other principals - LBJ, Dulles, Ruth Paine, Marina, whomever. Don't be shy: Just reinvent them to fit your theory! Since you're really just writing fiction anyway when you play the Conspiracy Game, there is absolutely nothing out-of-bounds about this.

It says volumes about your lack of credibility that you would recommend Niederhut.

For the benefit of any newcomers, William Niederhut is a devout advocate of the nuttiest of the 9/11 Truther conspiracies. He is a devotee of Jim Fetzer. Among other bizarre claims, Niederhut argues that the WTC towers were destroyed by controlled demolitions, not by hijacked airliners, and that a missile, not a jetliner, hit the Pentagon. Niederhut also claims that the Israeli Mossad played a role in killing JFK, and that John Lennon was assassinated by U.S. intelligence assets.