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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Toni Glover
« Last post by Tom Graves on Today at 02:23:40 AM »
You guys want to rely on the "images" when they conflict with the "memory" of an eyewitness? So, explain: (1) WILLIS 5 showing only 2 Guys standing at the bottom of The Steps, and (2) The NIX FILM showing a White Shirt Man running Up-The-Steps. Both of these unexplained images being in the very same area.

Dear Storm Trooper Storing,

Excellent questions!

Why don't you start a new thread?

-- Tom
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I don’t think anyone said they were certain what prompted him to do that. As far as I can tell no one said that it was certainly not a response to being unable to breathe.

It's too bad that English is your second language.

Did anyone say, "It could have been a neurological response OR an attempt to breathe"?
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As you can see, although everything written there is traceable to the known evidence, Mr Von Pein is not able to offer any substantial refutation of any of the main facts.

On my webpage linked below, I discuss some of the various errors and misconceptions that some people have concerning Oswald's movements on 11/22/63, including the theory that Oswald was stopped by a policeman in a "storage room on the first floor" (instead of the actual location of the encounter, which was, of course, the second-floor lunchroom). There were even some newspapers reporting the erroneous "storage room" story, such as the Dallas Morning News on 11/23/63:






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Maybe Perplexity AI "hallucinated."

AI has been known to do that.

Question: Did the HSCA panel say JFK splayed his elbows outwards and held his motionless hands and fingers in front of his throat because he couldn't breathe?
I don’t think anyone said they were certain what prompted him to do that. As far as I can tell no one said that it was certainly not a response to being unable to breathe.
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Toni Glover
« Last post by Royell Storing on Today at 01:01:49 AM »
You're actually right about something for a change, Fancy Pants Rants.

Memories are incredibly unreliable.

Take, for example, Toni Glover's mistakenly claiming that the limo was far down Elm Street when Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot rang out, Mary Woodward's mistakenly claiming that the first shot (which sounded like a backfire to her) occurred after JFK and Jackie had waved to her and her three colleagues (starting around Z-175), and Karen Westbrook's mistakenly saying Stella Mae Jacob, Glorua Jeanne Holt, and Sharon Simmons in the Zapruder film were "Uhh, Carol Reed?, Gloria Calvery, and me!!!" to smilin' 'n noddin' Stephen Fagin at The Sixth Floor Museum.

LOL!

   You guys want to rely on the "images" when they conflict with the "memory" of an eyewitness? So explain: (1) WILLIS 5 showing only 2 Guys standing at the bottom of The Steps, and (2) The NIX FILM showing a White Shirt Man running Up-The-Steps. Both of these unexplained images being in the very same area.
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What do you know about making conclusions. I've never seen you make on that made sense.
How about: since 25 witnesses said that JFK reacted visibly to the first shot and zero witnesses said he kept smiling and waving after the first shot, and since the zfilm, the shot pattern evidence, and the evidence as to JFK’s location at the time of the first shot, are all consistent with JFK being hit by the first shot, then the first shot must not have missed.

Quote
It only suggests that to people who are bad at figuring. That was about 3 seconds after the first shot was fired. She reacted about the same time JBC did at Z164 when she began shortening her strides in order to come to a stop.
But she did not slow down until z188. From z142 to z166 she takes 4 full strides (from left foot planted right stride, left stride, right stride, and left stride with left foot planted at z166).  That is 6 frames per stride. From z166 to z180 she takes two more strides (7 frames per stride). From z180 to z188 another stride. From z188 to z199 one more stride before stopping at z199. Not much if any attempt to stop until after z188.


She did not say she slowed her running when she heard the first shot. She said she stopped-at least that is what Pozner said based on a June 3, 1979 article in the Dallas Times Herald (Case Closed, ch14, fn 18). 
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JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate / Re: Toni Glover
« Last post by Tom Graves on Yesterday at 11:35:31 PM »
With all due respect to the Sixth Floor Museum, to its Oral History Project, and to the people who participate, I think it's all almost entirely bogus. I don't care HOW impactful someone thinks the JFKA was, there is NO WAY memories 30, 40, 50, 60 years later can be trusted. I could regale the Sixth Floor Museum with plausible-sounding "memories" of the JFKA, but all I'm at least pretty sure I remember is that I was eating lunch in the outside lunch area at Alice Vail Junior High in Tucson. Who told us, who I was with, what I was wearing, what I was eating, how I and others reacted, what we were doing 5 minutes before and 5 minutes after - FORGET ABOUT IT. These characters who come out of the woodwork years after the fact are simply a nuisance. I don't care if what they say is LN-supportive or CT-supportive, it just confuses the issue and should be ignored.

You're actually right about something for a change, Fancy Pants Rants.

Memories are incredibly unreliable.

Take, for example, Toni Glover's mistakenly claiming that the limo was far down Elm Street when Oswald's first missing-everything shot rang out, Mary Woodward's mistakenly claiming that the first shot (which sounded like a backfire to her) occurred after JFK and Jackie had waved to her and her three colleagues (starting around Z-175), and Karen Westbrook's mistakenly saying Stella Mae Jacob, Glorua Jeanne Holt, and Sharon Simmons in the Zapruder film were "Uhh, Carol Reed?, Gloria Calvery, and me!!!" to smilin' 'n noddin' Stephen Fagin at The Sixth Floor Museum.

LOL!
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JBC told us why he turned his head. I stated Rosemury Willis turned back to the TSBD because we see her do that and years later said she saw pigeons fly off the roof. It is a logical inference that the reason she turned back to the TSBD is because that's where the sound seemed to come from.

If Rosemary Willis saw pigeons fly off the roof, it must have been at Z-141, about a second after Oswald's first, missing everything, shot at "Z-124." That's when she, quickly looking away from the limo, turned her head to her right and started looking in the direction of the TSBD.

https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z141.jpg
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To quote Dale Myers...

"While there are several good reasons to dismiss Tatum’s account of the final moments of the Tippit shooting as a false recollection or a misperception of the true event, there is nothing that disproves it with absolute certainty. Conversely, there is nothing that supports it.

Like many things associated with the JFK assassination saga, Jack Ray Tatum’s account lies in that nebulous gray area. It could be true. Of course, accepting the fact that it might be true, doesn’t prove that it is."

Wow, the "real researcher" is back.........  To quote Dale Myers   :D


All you can do is make assumptions and babble about "real research", when in reality you have shown time after time that the only "research" you actually do is read Dale Myers book.



You want to criticize me over "With Malice",


Hilarious  :D
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JBC said he turned to look at JFK.  He doesn’t even try to look at JFK before z230.  So your conclusion that this turn occurred before z230 is not based on evidence.\

What do you know about making conclusions. I've never seen you make on that made sense.
Quote

Rosemary turns back at z202-206.  That suggests the first shot just before then, just as her sister, father, Croft and Betzner, the 25 witnesses who reported seeing JFK react to the first shot said.  That’s the evidence that the correct interpretation of the zfilm should fit.

It only suggests that to people who are bad at figuring. That was about 3 seconds after the first shot was fired. She reacted about the same time JBC did at Z164 when she began shortening her strides in order to come to a stop.
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