JFK Assassination Forum

The only issue on Beverly Oliver not being the Babushka lady is who was she, and why nobody ever came forward. The woman had to have friends and family that knew she was there but nothing.

And good old Posner another one who tells tall tales.

I was far less impressed with Posner than I was with Bugliosi's Reclaiming History. I never liked the way Posner acted like he was riding to the rescue of the WCR, which did not need to be rescuing. In promoting his book, Posner fed off many CT myths, such as WC saying the shots were fired in under 6 seconds. That was never a conclusion of the WC but Posner acted like it was.

I was four days short of my 12th birthday was Oswald was shot. I was out playing touch football in our neighbor's yard when my younger sister came running out of their house and over to our house yelling, "Mom, somebody shot Oswald.". A man followed her out and we asked him if it was true. He said, "Yeah, somebody just walked up and BOOM". The football game ended abruptly, and I went back home and saw the replay. I've always regretted I didn't get to see it happen live. I think it was about an hour and a half later, NBC's Frank McGee came on the air and announced Oswald had died. I remember being happy to hear that and I've never felt any different for one second since. I'm glad that little bastard never got to enjoy his newfound notoriety. I think he was looking forward to that, even knowing he would probably get the death penalty. It's unlikely the sentence would have been carried out. An 86-year-old Oswald might still be thumbing his nose at us from his jail cell. Jack Ruby handed down a death sentence Oswald couldn't appeal. Nice shot, Jack. I hope Oswald suffered greatly before he died.

Interesting. Be sure to weigh in on the thread I just started about why anyone cares about the JFKA. I was 13 years and 8 months. Neither JFK nor the JFKA meant squat to me - or, as far as I could tell, to my parents who seemed to have no political leanings at all. The JFKA was just a few days off from school. I don't remember giving a thought to the murder of Oswald at the time. I actually felt much sadder when LBJ died, and my older sister said the same thing.

When I got back into the JFKA 15 or so years ago, I read almost everything Walt Brown had written (yes, including his million-word Chronology). He was 15 at the time. I was astonished at the level of his grief as a 15-year-old, which he stiull seemed to be carrying decades later.

Every time I re-engage with the JFKA community, I find myself asking why anyone cares about this stuff? Why do I? Are we self-aware enough to answer this question?

The most honest answer of which I am capable is something like this:

1. I made the mistake, way back in 1980, of making Lifton’s Best Evidence the first JFKA book I had ever read. It was so utterly bizarre that it fed right into my proclivity for all forms of weirdness. So I percolated for years, reading the occasional conspiracy tome like High Treason and regarding JFKA conspiracy theorizing as a minor cog in my overall weirdness studies. Without Best Evidence, I probably never would have given any more thought to the JFKA than I give to the Lincoln and McKinley assassinations.

2. After traveling to Minsk in 2007 to see my fiancé, whose sister had worked with Oswald, I became fascinated by Oswald the man and still am. What was he all about, what was really going on inside his head? The more I learned, the more the LN narrative seemed plausible but not airtight by any means.

3. I became more actively involved with the JFKA just about the time I retired as a lawyer. The only satisfaction I derived from 40 years as a lawyer was exercising my analytical and writing skills and kicking the butts of people who thought they were smart. Truly, that was all; the "practice of law" meant zilch to me. Internet forums, including JFKA ones but mostly religion ones, provided a nice substitute.

4. I was eventually banned from all – yes, ALL – religion forums and reduced to things like the Ed Forum. I got lucky with the Postal Money Order issue right off the bat and had the ego satisfaction of being deemed a “JFKA researcher.”

5. I never really cared anything about JFK or who killed him. Oswald? Fine, but why? The Mafia? Cool! The CIA? OK, whatever. For me, involvement with the JFKA is just an opportunity to exercise my analytical and writing skills and engage in a bit of mental jousting.

6. My little factoid-busting exercises have been a hoot, an enjoyable substitute for writing 60-page appellate briefs. Most of them have been fantastically more time-consuming than they’re worth, and I accept that they are of no great interest or value. But they’re fun and amusing for me.

That’s it for me – no higher motive or agenda.

Let’s turn to you, my fellow LNers and CTers. What’s your honest explanation for your interest?

The JFKA is so chockful of twists and turns and mysteries that I can see it as purely a hobby. Some people collect stamps, read whodunnits or do crossword puzzles, you fiddle around with the JFKA. Perhaps like me you just enjoy the jousting. Is that it?

No, that can’t be it for most of you. On both sides, LN and CT, there seems to be an emotional involvement, sometimes a near-religious fervor. This isn’t  a criticism, just an observation. LNers seem offended that anyone would challenge their sacred LN narrative; CTers seem offended that anyone would fail to see what they see. If this is you, how do you explain this obsession and emotional involvement?

Lastly, it seems to me that for many of you the JFKA is something larger than it is for me. (I was 13 when JFK was assassinated, so I was probably as aware as most of you. It didn't mean squat to me, just a few days with no school.) Perhaps you have an exalted view of JFK, cherish his memory and think he deserves an historically accurate account of his death. Perhaps you think the JFKA has greatly influenced the subsequent history of the country and reverberates even today. Perhaps you hope that those you believe were responsible for the JFKA will be held accountable by your efforts to change the verdict of history.

(Isn’t it curious, on all the JFKA sites, how many foreigners are extremely active and seemingly obsessed with the JFKA? Is it for one of the reasons suggested above, or is it something else?)

Anyway, have you ever stepped back and asked yourself, “Why do I care about this stuff?” What’s your answer?

I can mentally justify my intense involvement with theology and anomalous phenomena (Near-Death experiences, for example) because the convictions I reach about these subjects have huge ramifications for how I live my life and how I view reality and possibly eternity. But the JFKA? I'm unable to see it as having much importance at all beyond mental exercise – a real-life whodunnit. Since it pretty clearly means much more to many of you, I’m curious to hear your explanations.

For completeness, sharing Richard Lipsey's interview with the HSCA here: https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm


Specifically about the "raised arm":

Q: Could you describe for us the nature of the damage to the front of the neck?

 

LIPSEY: No. I really couldn't. Because like I say, when we got it out, there was -- blood was all over the body. It was almost caked on. I remember they took a scrub brush and a pail. One of his arms, and if I've not mistaken, it was his left arm. You know, the way, I guess, after he died, finished the autopsy by that time and, rigor mortis had set in and one of his arms was slightly higher. Well, the guy's laying down and one of them was up a little bit. So when they started the autopsy I can remember, one of the doctors, when he was starting to clean the body up, got up on the table and physically got up on the table and put his knee down on his arm to hold it down -- to get it out of his way -- so he could scrub the rest of the body. So to say, to describe the hole to you, no. Because it was so messy and so much blood that I didn't, I never got close enough to get down and look at the wound itself.