JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Mike Orr on June 21, 2018, 07:22:13 PM

Title: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mike Orr on June 21, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
While listening to a very good segment by Dr. Cyril Wecht , Cyril became quite disturbed when the mention of Gary Mack came into the discussion about Oswald being named as the Lone Nut assassin in the JFK case. It was also mentioned the 6th Floor Museum has taken a severe turn on how it captures the Assassination that day. I never was real sure if Gary Mack ever sided with Oswald being the lone killer of JFK , but it seemed that Mack always gave a possible " it could have happened that way " when a scenario would come around for different ways that the President could have been shot , but he seemed to still not buy into the fact that someone other than Oswald could have shot JFK. Dr. Wecht said that Gary Mack " used to be one of us ", but turned out to be a Benedict Arnold. I am a huge fan of Dr. Cyril Wecht and as he explains what he feels happened in Dallas and especially Bethesda , his logic and expertise speaks volumes about the JFK Case.


                You Tube--------- Dr. Cyril Wecht-JFK Lancer Conference ( 11-19-2016 ) 1:11:44 in length
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Richard Smith on June 21, 2018, 07:32:50 PM
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While listening to a very good segment by Dr. Cyril Wecht , Cyril became quite disturbed when the mention of Gary Mack came into the discussion about Oswald being named as the Lone Nut assassin in the JFK case. It was also mentioned the 6th Floor Museum has taken a severe turn on how it captures the Assassination that day. I never was real sure if Gary Mack ever sided with Oswald being the lone killer of JFK , but it seemed that Mack always gave a possible " it could have happened that way " when a scenario would come around for different ways that the President could have been shot , but he seemed to still not buy into the fact that someone other than Oswald could have shot JFK. Dr. Wecht said that Gary Mack " used to be one of us ", but turned out to be a Benedict Arnold. I am a huge fan of Dr. Cyril Wecht and as he explains what he feels happened in Dallas and especially Bethesda , his logic and expertise speaks volumes about the JFK Case.


                You Tube--------- Dr. Cyril Wecht-JFK Lancer Conference ( 11-19-2016 ) 1:11:44 in length

Mack was fair minded, knowledegable, and relied upon the evidence.  My interpretation of his view is that he left open the possibility of a conspiracy (primarily because you can't disprove the negative with 100% certainty) but that there was no credible evidence to support it. 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mark Valenti on June 21, 2018, 10:53:47 PM
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Mack was fair minded, knowledegable, and relied upon the evidence.  My interpretation of his view is that he left open the possibility of a conspiracy (primarily because you can't disprove the negative with 100% certainty) but that there was no credible evidence to support it.

This is correct. Gary was brutalized in life by online nerds and shamefully insulted within 24 hours of his death by demented losers. They could never understand how a person could possibly arrive at a different conclusion than they did. It had to be a conspiracy, he must have been paid off, he was always a spy, etc. When they change or modify their own opinions about the details, that's understandable human nature. When Gary did it, that was treason.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Chris Scally on June 22, 2018, 10:22:50 AM
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This is correct. Gary was brutalized in life by online nerds and shamefully insulted within 24 hours of his death by demented losers. They could never understand how a person could possibly arrive at a different conclusion than they did. It had to be a conspiracy, he must have been paid off, he was always a spy, etc. When they change or modify their own opinions about the details, that's understandable human nature. When Gary did it, that was treason.

Mark (and Richard):

I totally agree with your comments, and thank you for your kind remarks about Gary. Gary was a good friend, whom I'd known for many, many years, and a man of absolute integrity. He told you what he thought, and it was up to you as to whether you agreed with him or not. He and I didn't always agree, but when that happened, we could agree to differ and move on, like grown-up, mature adults. The manner in which he was vilified by people - many of whom had never met him, spoken to him, or even corresponded with him - in the the immediate aftermath of his untimely passing was among the most disgusting things I'd ever witnessed, and besmirched much of the so-called "research community" for ever.

RIP Gary.
 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Colin Crow on June 22, 2018, 10:55:50 AM
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Mark (and Richard):

I totally agree with your comments, and thank you for your kind remarks about Gary. Gary was a good friend, whom I'd known for many, many years, and a man of absolute integrity. He told you what he thought, and it was up to you as to whether you agreed with him or not. He and I didn't always agree, but when that happened, we could agree to differ and move on, like grown-up, mature adults. The manner in which he was vilified by people - many of whom had never met him, spoken to him, or even corresponded with him - in the the immediate aftermath of his untimely passing was among the most disgusting things I'd ever witnessed, and besmirched much of the so-called "research community" for ever.

RIP Gary.

Well said Chris. And Richard and Mark.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 11, 2018, 10:49:42 PM
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Mark (and Richard):

I totally agree with your comments, and thank you for your kind remarks about Gary. Gary was a good friend, whom I'd known for many, many years, and a man of absolute integrity. He told you what he thought, and it was up to you as to whether you agreed with him or not. He and I didn't always agree, but when that happened, we could agree to differ and move on, like grown-up, mature adults. The manner in which he was vilified by people - many of whom had never met him, spoken to him, or even corresponded with him - in the the immediate aftermath of his untimely passing was among the most disgusting things I'd ever witnessed, and besmirched much of the so-called "research community" for ever.

RIP Gary.

...and when Mark Lane died we saw the exact same thing happen from the other side.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Walton on July 12, 2018, 03:16:24 AM
Gary Mack went from a conspiracy theorist (and making no money) to a lone nut advocate (and getting a full-time job to boot). How anyone can call that fair-minded is beyond me.

There are many good articles about Mack on DiEugenio's site. There's one that critiqued one of those fake assassination shows on Discovery starring Mack.  With a straight face, shooting and editing of the program told obvious lies. Look it up if you don't believe me.

But here's one of my favorite articles on this subject:

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/gary-mack-strikes-again

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mitch Todd on July 12, 2018, 05:00:34 AM
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Gary Mack went from a conspiracy theorist (and making no money) to a lone nut advocate (and getting a full-time job to boot). How anyone can call that fair-minded is beyond me.

There are many good articles about Mack on DiEugenio's site. There's one that critiqued one of those fake assassination shows on Discovery starring Mack.  With a straight face, shooting and editing of the program told obvious lies. Look it up if you don't believe me.

But here's one of my favorite articles on this subject:

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/gary-mack-strikes-again


It says a lot about Jim DiEugenio that, in all of that article, there is only one footnote, and that's to a book he wrote himself.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 12, 2018, 05:37:20 AM
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Gary Mack went from a conspiracy theorist (and making no money) to a lone nut advocate (and getting a full-time job to boot). How anyone can call that fair-minded is beyond me.

There are many good articles about Mack on DiEugenio's site. There's one that critiqued one of those fake assassination shows on Discovery starring Mack.  With a straight face, shooting and editing of the program told obvious lies. Look it up if you don't believe me.

But here's one of my favorite articles on this subject:

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/gary-mack-strikes-again


Quote
How anyone can call that fair-minded is beyond me.

When I started I was a conspiracy theorist but as time went on and I learnt the evidence I realized that my initial conclusion which was based on incomplete information(conspiracy books) needed a re-evaluation.
For instance one example of my conspiracy belief was the "back and to the left" but after some research I found a bullet lacks the mass to drive anyone more than an inch or two and upon close examination of the Zapruder film @312-313 Kennedy and all the resulting matter is pushed forward. The first eyewitnesses interviewed on TV, the Newmans and Zapruder all describe what we see in the Zapruder film and finally after studying the genuine stereoscopic Autopsy photos the injuries to Kennedy's head reinforce a shot from behind.



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 12, 2018, 03:15:11 PM
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Mack was fair minded, knowledegable, and relied upon the evidence.  My interpretation of his view is that he left open the possibility of a conspiracy (primarily because you can't disprove the negative with 100% certainty) but that there was no credible evidence to support it.

   Is your, "fair minded, Knowledgeable, and Relied upon the Evidence" appraisal Before or After his pushing of the Badgeman & his mis ID of Mumford/McKinnon?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Capasse on July 12, 2018, 03:38:35 PM
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Ditto Jim Marrs, Fletcher Prouty and Jim Garrison.

And the only one I had heard of a "million dollar" deal was Vince Bugliosi
...I think he was paid by the word
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 12, 2018, 03:39:39 PM
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When I started I was a conspiracy theorist but as time went on and I learnt the evidence I realized that my initial conclusion which was based on incomplete information(conspiracy books) needed a re-evaluation.
For instance one example of my conspiracy belief was the "back and to the left" but after some research I found a bullet lacks the mass to drive anyone more than an inch or two and upon close examination of the Zapruder film @312-313 Kennedy and all the resulting matter is pushed forward. The first eyewitnesses interviewed on TV, the Newmans and Zapruder all describe what we see in the Zapruder film and finally after studying the genuine stereoscopic Autopsy photos the injuries to Kennedy's head reinforce a shot from behind.



JohnM

          The validity of the stolen autopsy photos currently displayed in the public arena can hardly be described as "Genuine".  "Kinkos" Groden continues cranking them out on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on July 12, 2018, 03:54:17 PM
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Gary Mack went from a conspiracy theorist (and making no money) to a lone nut advocate (and getting a full-time job to boot). How anyone can call that fair-minded is beyond me.

There are many good articles about Mack on DiEugenio's site. There's one that critiqued one of those fake assassination shows on Discovery starring Mack.  With a straight face, shooting and editing of the program told obvious lies. Look it up if you don't believe me.

But here's one of my favorite articles on this subject:

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/gary-mack-strikes-again

Mack wasn't a lone nut advocate; he believed up to his death that Oswald did shoot JFK but that he had help. In other words, Mack believed in a conspiracy albeit with a small or lower case "c".


Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Brown on July 12, 2018, 06:07:55 PM
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Mark (and Richard):

I totally agree with your comments, and thank you for your kind remarks about Gary. Gary was a good friend, whom I'd known for many, many years, and a man of absolute integrity. He told you what he thought, and it was up to you as to whether you agreed with him or not. He and I didn't always agree, but when that happened, we could agree to differ and move on, like grown-up, mature adults. The manner in which he was vilified by people - many of whom had never met him, spoken to him, or even corresponded with him - in the the immediate aftermath of his untimely passing was among the most disgusting things I'd ever witnessed, and besmirched much of the so-called "research community" for ever.

RIP Gary.

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...and when Mark Lane died we saw the exact same thing happen from the other side.

No, you certainly did not.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Brown on July 12, 2018, 06:17:07 PM
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Gary Mack went from a conspiracy theorist (and making no money) to a lone nut advocate (and getting a full-time job to boot).

I always laugh when I see another make a comment on a subject which they very obviously have no idea about the subject they're addressing.

Gary Mack certainly was not a "lone nut advocate".

Perhaps you should educate yourself a little better on the subject before any further comments on it.  Just a thought.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 12, 2018, 06:33:45 PM
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When I started I was a conspiracy theorist but as time went on and I learnt the evidence I realized that my initial conclusion which was based on incomplete information(conspiracy books) needed a re-evaluation.
For instance one example of my conspiracy belief was the "back and to the left" but after some research I found a bullet lacks the mass to drive anyone more than an inch or two and upon close examination of the Zapruder film @312-313 Kennedy and all the resulting matter is pushed forward. The first eyewitnesses interviewed on TV, the Newmans and Zapruder all describe what we see in the Zapruder film and finally after studying the genuine stereoscopic Autopsy photos the injuries to Kennedy's head reinforce a shot from behind.

JohnM

The single most powerful thing that got me really interested in the assassination was when I found out that JBC was seated somewhat lower and to the left of Kennedy.

A huge 'eureka' moment for me.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 12, 2018, 11:17:40 PM
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No, you certainly did not.

You obviously didn't read the threads on this very forum when Lane died.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 12, 2018, 11:19:02 PM
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The single most powerful thing that got me really interested in the assassination was when I found out that JBC was seated somewhat lower and to the left of Kennedy.

Not nearly as much as Dale Myers pretended.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 13, 2018, 01:35:11 AM
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The single most powerful thing that got me really interested in the assassination was when I found out that JBC was seated somewhat lower and to the left of Kennedy.

A huge 'eureka' moment for me.

    "Somewhat lower and to the left of Kennedy" takes in a Lot of territory. It is this type of crack detective work that also leads to a bullet entering the Back of JFK at a downward angle and then exiting his throat. Total BS.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 13, 2018, 01:41:41 AM
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You obviously didn't read the threads on this very forum when Lane died.




Instead of these continual vague opinionated responses, how about you provide some actual evidence?



JohnM

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Walton on July 13, 2018, 02:21:20 AM
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And the only one I had heard of a "million dollar" deal was Vince Bugliosi
...I think he was paid by the word

Don't forget Posner. He was paid by how many sentences he plagiarized. So he could then have his plastic surgery.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 13, 2018, 03:36:49 AM
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Where's your evidence? I want to see what made you convert from a CT position to a LN position.




I'm not sure what you're driving at?
In my post you originally responded to, the evidence I presented of a plethora of scientific facts proved that there was no frontal shooter, besides why put a shooter out the front when your intended patsy was in the opposite direction? Doh!

And who was surrounded by open ground, wtf?

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/49/f1/c9/49f1c950f35e9ae490e04c6385ada256.jpg)



JohnM

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 13, 2018, 05:35:09 AM
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Not nearly as much as Dale Myers pretended.

I said nothing about Myers. The victim seating positions seen in multiple images taken along the parade route put the lie to a need for Wecht's 'magic' bullet nonsense.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Brown on July 13, 2018, 06:50:03 AM
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You obviously didn't read the threads on this very forum when Lane died.

I did and they were nothing like the disgusting things said about Mack after his passing.  Give it up.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Capasse on July 13, 2018, 12:13:23 PM
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No, you certainly did not.
yes, we certainly did.

This is from the old forum:
Quote from: Howard Gee  May 18, 2016, 05:26:30 PM    
Quote
This was posted on another forum. I don't know who Barry Ryder is, but he didn't think much of Mark Lane.
==================================================

"My sincere condolences go to the friends and family of Mark Lane. However, I will not mourn his passing or pay tribute to him. To do so would be hypocritical. I had a low regard of the man.

His writings, talks and broadcasts about the assassination of President Kennedy have done irreparable harm to the general understanding of the murder.

In the half century since the events of Dallas, Lane earned big money peddling paranoia and half-truth. His writings were all characterised by strategic omissions of evidence and witness testimony. His showboating before the Warren Commission (and later the HSCA) earned him public rebukes from both bodies.

Witnesses who were 'interviewed' by him often slammed him for misrepresenting what they had said (eg. Charles Brehm) or denied ever being interviewed by him at all (eg. Mary Woodward). Lane's disgraceful telephone conversation with Helen Markham showed him to be willing to stoop to any depth to advance his arguments.

Lane had no regard for 'the whole truth'. His books and pronouncements are characterised by wilful withholding of crucial information.

'Rush To Judgment' has no mention of Johnny Brewer or Julia Postal. These two witnesses were the sole reason why the DPD went to the Texas theatre to search for a man who was acting suspiciously. Lane omitted all mention of them so as to create an air of suspicion about the actions of the DPD.

His treatment of Jack Ruby's testimony was disgraceful. Whole swathes of Ruby's statements were ignored and the essential meaning of Ruby's protestations were turned on their head because of it. Ruby denied all foreknowledge of the assassination or of Oswald. Lane's duplicity painted a very different picture.

'Plausible Denial' features the Marita Lorenz deposition which was given for the Hunt v. Liberty Lobby appeal. In his usual fashion however, Lane omitted the parts of the testimony which proved that Lorenz was lying. Lane knew that she was lying but he cut-and-pasted her words to suit his purpose.

Finally, should any reader feel that I'm being unfair to a deceased man who cannot respond to my accusations, it should be noted that I have negatively reviewed the two books previously mentioned (on amazon). Firstly, my accusations were made whilst Lane was alive and as the author of the books in question he would have been advised of the existence of the reviews. Secondly, saying bad things about the deceased is something that never seemed to bother Lane himself.

He had no qualms at all when it came to insinuating the deceased J. D. Tippit into a nefarious 'plot' with Jack Ruby. The whole, shabby 'Carousel meeting' garbage that Lane peddled to the Warren Commission and the reading public was an utter disgrace.

Lane is gone but all of the poison that he injected into the public consciousness still circulates and will doubtless continue to do so.

That's not much of an epitaph." -- Barry Ryder; May 13, 2016

why do you tell lies?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve Barber on July 13, 2018, 04:06:45 PM


Only those of us who dealt with Gary Mack personally, would know the type of person he was.

Many of us knew him as a snake in the grass--and not because of his "about face".  We had personal experiences with him long before the Sixth Floor Museum came into existence.  If I may make a suggestion, please read the chapter titled "The Investigations" , available on the CD-Rom in Reclaiming History.  Flip to the title "Acoustics", and please read what actually happened with Gary when the conclusions of the HSCA were challenged (the acoustics tests).  As you know, Gary was the person who received the credit for the Dallas police Dictabelt recording being brought to the attention of the HSCA and that it contained gunshots.  Well, it's all in within the chapter and it's not pretty.  Few--if any of you--know what went on behind the scenes, but you can find out the facts as they happened by reading the chapter in Reclaiming History. 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 13, 2018, 04:26:46 PM
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Only those of us who dealt with Gary Mack personally, would know the type of person he was.

Many of us knew him as a snake in the grass--and not because of his "about face".  We had personal experiences with him long before the Sixth Floor Museum came into existence.  If I may make a suggestion, please read the chapter titled "The Investigations" , available on the CD-Rom in Reclaiming History.  Flip to the title "Acoustics", and please read what actually happened with Gary when the conclusions of the HSCA were challenged (the acoustics tests).  As you know, Gary was the person who received the credit for the Dallas police Dictabelt recording being brought to the attention of the HSCA and that it contained gunshots.  Well, it's all in within the chapter and it's not pretty.  Few--if any of you--know what went on behind the scenes, but you can find out the facts as they happened by reading the chapter in Reclaiming History.

       Gary's repeated M.O. of going back stage and getting others to proffer his opinion(s)/carry his water vs directly engaging in discussion on this forum is Not indicative of someone with heart felt convictions of merit. To Gary's credit he was very good at responding to questions and supplying detailed assassination related information when asked. 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Gary Craig on July 13, 2018, 06:42:07 PM
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I always laugh when I see another make a comment on a subject which they very obviously have no idea about the subject they're addressing.

Gary Mack certainly was not a "lone nut advocate".

Perhaps you should educate yourself a little better on the subject before any further comments on it.  Just a thought.

"Gary Mack certainly was not a "lone nut advocate".

 :D

Gary 'larry dunkel' Mack made $150,000 a year running a museum located in the spot the official

narrative says a Lone Nut shot JFK from.

If not a advocate then at least a paid schill.

IMO of course.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Walton on July 13, 2018, 06:56:40 PM
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I'm not sure what you're driving at?
In my post you originally responded to, the evidence I presented of a plethora of scientific facts proved that there was no frontal shooter, besides why put a shooter out the front when your intended patsy was in the opposite direction? Doh!

And who was surrounded by open ground, wtf?





JohnM

When a bullet terminates in the back of someone (not the "back of the neck" as Ford added at the last minute) - meaning it does not come out but stops dead in the victim's back - how in the world would this bullet which stopped dead in its tracks also be able to exit (where?) and go on to cause more wounds in another victim, and then come out pristine after hitting one of the hardest bones in the body of the second victim?

Remember, one of the WC supporters' heroes of this is Humes who said this.  Remember him? "The wound in the back ended there and no viable exit was discovered."

It's important to remember this, John, and not get too mealy-mouthed.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Walton on July 13, 2018, 07:10:28 PM
Comparing Mark Lane with Gary Mack is ridiculous.  Lane was writing conspiracy way before he had to interview anyone or before there was any cash to be made.  He wrote this article in December '63, mere days after the murder.

http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/The_critics/Lane/Natl-Guardian/Natl_Guardian.html

And his own xxxxing country would not even publish it.  He had to go over to England to get it published.  Think about that for a moment and ask yourself - if the government and its lapdog media conglomerate had really, truly been interested in vigorously pursuing the truth of this case, they would have published this article in a heartbeat.  Hoover would have been out in front of the FBI building, flags flapping, stating we're going to get to the bottom of this like he did with the country hillbilly John Dillinger 30 years before.

None of this ever happened. Oswald's death easily and conveniently shut every avenue of inquiry forever because all it'd take was to tweak and fudge the record to get the official and foregone conclusion.

And that's exactly what happened. Gary "I used to be a CTer until I got a job at the 6th Floor Museum" Mack was just one part of the lapdog messaging system they had in place to keep polishing the creaky and full-of-xxxx lone nut story.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve Barber on July 13, 2018, 09:18:32 PM
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       Gary's repeated M.O. of going back stage and getting others to proffer his opinion(s)/carry his water vs directly engaging in discussion on this forum is Not indicative of someone with heart felt convictions of merit. To Gary's credit he was very good at responding to questions and supplying detailed assassination related information when asked.

It was all for self serving purposes whenever Gary would give answers to questions and detailed assassination related information.  As long as he always held the upper hand, he was delighted to help someone.   Simply put. Gary Mack was not a nice guy. 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Duncan MacRae on July 13, 2018, 09:39:59 PM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 13, 2018, 10:29:08 PM
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When a bullet terminates in the back of someone (not the "back of the neck" as Ford added at the last minute) - meaning it does not come out but stops dead in the victim's back - how in the world would this bullet which stopped dead in its tracks also be able to exit (where?) and go on to cause more wounds in another victim, and then come out pristine after hitting one of the hardest bones in the body of the second victim?

Remember, one of the WC supporters' heroes of this is Humes who said this.  Remember him? "The wound in the back ended there and no viable exit was discovered."

It's important to remember this, John, and not get too mealy-mouthed.
Why on Earth would an Assassin use an underpowered rifle that can barely penetrate a human body, were some of your snipers just trying to annoy Kennedy?



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 13, 2018, 10:44:53 PM
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Why on Earth would an Assassin use an underpowered rifle that can barely penetrate a human body, were some of your snipers they just trying to annoy Kennedy?

JohnM

I'd advise you to duck if someone aims a Carcano at you.

FMJ ammo was designed to overpenetrate and remain intact.
Gun nuts today advise against using such ammo for homeD since even if you land a couple on an invader, you might also put your wife out of her misery (just kidding)
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: James Hess on July 13, 2018, 10:51:12 PM
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I am a huge fan of Dr. Cyril Wecht and as he explains what he feels happened in Dallas and especially Bethesda , his logic and expertise speaks volumes about the JFK Case.


Not so much...if you can ....just listen to the first 30 seconds without laughing.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 14, 2018, 05:20:44 PM
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Instead of these continual vague opinionated responses, how about you provide some actual evidence?

You know as well as I do that the forum history got wiped since then.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 14, 2018, 05:21:55 PM
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I said nothing about Myers. The victim seating positions seen in multiple images taken along the parade route put the lie to a need for Wecht's 'magic' bullet nonsense.

No they don't.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Joe Elliott on July 17, 2018, 12:19:29 AM

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I am a huge fan of Dr. Cyril Wecht and as he explains what he feels happened in Dallas and especially Bethesda , his logic and expertise speaks volumes about the JFK Case.




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Not so much...if you can ....just listen to the first 30 seconds without laughing.




Dr. Wecht clearly explains that the SBT is impossible because the wound in JFKís back is actually lower than the throat wound.

However, as one can tell from the autopsy photographs, the back wound is higher than the throat wound.

(http://odbic.com/images/jfkBackWound.png)

I measured the downward angle of the red line and found it to be about 17 degrees, exactly the amount one would expect from a shot from the sniperís nest. Assuming the neck is 6 inches thick horizontally, this would mean the back wound is about 1.8 inches above the throat wound.



The HSCA:

I donít care the HSCA said the back wound was lower. The HSCA said a lot of things that were not true. And if there is a conflict between what the HSCA says and what my eyes see, I am going to go with my eyes.



The Clothes Maketh the Case:

The bullet holes in the clothes mean little. It has been shown that clothes can be move some relative to the body and they can bunch up. We can even see that JFKís coat is bunched up in the photographs taken within a few seconds of the shots.

Question:

Can anyone name a single court case where the court ignored the autopsy photographs and went with the locations of the holes in the clothes to establish the exact location of a wound?


I expect to hear nothing but silence on this question. But, apparently, we need to make a special exception in the JFK case.



The CTers want me to be guided by the clothes, but only up to a certain point. Autopsy doctors use the clothes to help determine what are entry wounds and what are exit wounds. The bullet holes in the clothes clearly indicate the back wound was an entrance wound and the throat wound was an exit wound. If I use the clothes consistently to determine the wounds, I must conclude that JFK was hit from behind, with the bullet angling upwards as it passed through his neck.

This would indicate an impossible shot, fired from the engine compartment of the follow up Secret Service vehicle. The shooter was literally under Clint Hillís nose.

What CTers really want is for me to use the evidence of the clothes, but in an inconsistent manner. Ignore the bullet directions as indicated by the clothes. And only pay attention to the location of the holes. And to ignore the possibility of the clothes bunching up.



My conclusion about Dr. Wecht:

Dr. Wecht has the education, the expertise, and the experience to be an impressive spokesman for either side. But all this is nullified by the lies he has told over the years.

He presented obviously false diagrams to congress, and in his public lectures to the public, for many years, trying to demonstrate the SBT is impossible. The positions of JFK and Connally are false. The angle of the bullet trajectory does not match the true angle from the sniperís nest.

And repeats the standard CT lie that the back wound is lower than the throat wound. It doesnít matter how may degrees you have, or the initials you have after your name, if you are clearly being dishonest, like Dr. Wecht.

Unlike Mike Orr, I think Dr. Wechtís statements say volumes about his character, not about this case.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mike Orr on July 17, 2018, 02:22:51 AM
The Assassination of JFK should have been a case that was solved by a Dallas Parkland Hospital Autopsy but instead the body was taken back to Bethesda and the autopsy was done and we have been asked to believe what we have been told were the results of that autopsy. I've often wondered how powerful Gary Mack felt when certain aspects of the case would make you lean towards the Conspiracy side or the side of a Lone Gunman . It's quite obvious that JFK and his brother Bobby ruffled a whole lot of feathers while JFK was the POTUS . It seemed like LBJ's problems went away after JFK was killed. The Vietnam war was back on . The Oil barons got to keep their oil depletion allowance which allowed them to not be taxed for 27.5% of their oil revenue. JFK was going to lower their oil percentage but after JFK was killed the Johnson administration kept the 27.5% the whole time he was in office. War & Oil = A whole lot of money !!! I guess I'm tired of haggling over the How's and the Who's of JFK's Assassination ! The important question is why was JFK assassinated ?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 17, 2018, 02:26:32 AM
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You know as well as I do that the forum history got wiped since then.






Exactly, you made a disparaging racist comment based on absolutely no verifiable evidence at all, Hmmmm, I'm starting to see a pattern!



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 17, 2018, 02:31:44 AM
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The Assassination of JFK should have been a case that was solved by a Dallas Parkland Hospital Autopsy




There would have been exactly zero difference wherever the autopsy was undertaken, the irrefutable evidence will stand for all time.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/pacjd0haj/alotofevidence2a.jpg)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mike Orr on July 17, 2018, 03:46:55 AM
There is a way past due "Apology" that is owed to those who saw what they saw but were told that they were mistaken about what they saw . One thing is for certain. There are those who couldn't see the truth if it was right in front of them. You saw what you saw and you don't owe anyone an explanation. They have to live with their BS.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 17, 2018, 04:38:44 AM
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There is a way past due "Apology" that is owed to those who saw what they saw but were told that they were mistaken about what they saw . One thing is for certain. There are those who couldn't see the truth if it was right in front of them. You saw what you saw and you don't owe anyone an explanation. They have to live with their BS.



Quote
There is a way past due "Apology" that is owed to those who saw what they saw but were told that they were mistaken about what they saw .
\


Yes Mike let's examine what they saw, as opposed to the total consistency of the "side of head eyewitnesses", the "back of head eyewitnesses" only consistency is their inconsistency, see Mike when you have memories of reality they corroborate but when you make up stuff the outcome is obvious.

Consistent eyewitnesses and physical evidence

(https://s15.postimg.cc/pacjd0haj/alotofevidence2a.jpg)


Made up stuff!

(https://s15.postimg.cc/vdypaxcgb/Eyewitness_inconsistencies.gif)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Joe Elliott on July 17, 2018, 05:11:40 AM

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The Assassination of JFK should have been a case that was solved by a Dallas Parkland Hospital Autopsy but instead the body was taken back to Bethesda and the autopsy was done and we have been asked to believe what we have been told were the results of that autopsy. I've often wondered how powerful Gary Mack felt when certain aspects of the case would make you lean towards the Conspiracy side or the side of a Lone Gunman . It's quite obvious that JFK and his brother Bobby ruffled a whole lot of feathers while JFK was the POTUS . It seemed like LBJ's problems went away after JFK was killed. The Vietnam war was back on . The Oil barons got to keep their oil depletion allowance which allowed them to not be taxed for 27.5% of their oil revenue. JFK was going to lower their oil percentage but after JFK was killed the Johnson administration kept the 27.5% the whole time he was in office. War & Oil = A whole lot of money !!! I guess I'm tired of haggling over the How's and the Who's of JFK's Assassination ! The important question is why was JFK assassinated ?




(http://odbic.com/images/jfkBackWound.png)


You are dodging the main issue. As John pointed out, it doesnít matter if the autopsy pictures were taken in Texas or in the Washington D. C. area, the picture is still going to show the back wound as higher than the throat wound.

And it doesnít matter where the autopsy was performed. If it was supposed to have been held in the Washington D. C. area, but was performed in Dallas instead, the CTers would have claimed that naturally Johnson would arrange for the autopsy to be performed in Texas, where he had the most influence. If he allows the body to be flown back east, God knows where Mrs. Kennedy would want the autopsy to be performed.



The point is, you are impressed by Dr. Wecht.

Questions:

What is so impressive about Dr. Wecht describing the back wound being lower than the throat wound to a room full of ignorant people who donít know any better?

What evidence has Dr. Wecht presented to support this assertion that trumps the autopsy photographs?

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Capasse on July 17, 2018, 03:11:13 PM
I suppose you could find a local Dallas mortician to mix up some plaster of paris
then stretch a piece of rubber over the gaping hole at the back of the President's head -- :D

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/846/41307299300_a0106c55fb_b.jpg)
                                                                                                                                      author Joe West notes

Thomas Robinson
Gawler's Funeral Home

testimony before the HSCA 1977

Purdy: Could you tell how large the opening had been caused by the BULLETS?

Robinson: Not really, well, I guess I can because a good bit of the bone had been blown away.
There was nothing there to piece together, so I would probably say about (the size of) a small orange.

Purdy: Could you give us an estimate of inches and the nature of the shape?
Robinson: Three.

Purdy: And the shape?
Robinson: Circular.

Purdy: Was it fairly smooth or fairly ragged?
Robinson: Ragged.

Purdy: Approximately where was this wound located?
Robinson: Directly behind the back of the head.
(ARRB, MD-63, pp. 1-2)
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 17, 2018, 04:06:20 PM
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I suppose you could find a local Dallas mortician to mix up some plaster of paris
then stretch a piece of rubber over the gaping hole at the back of the President's head -- :D

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/846/41307299300_a0106c55fb_b.jpg)
                                                                                                                                      author Joe West notes

Thomas Robinson
Gawler's Funeral Home

testimony before the Assassination Records Review Board

Purdy: Could you tell how large the opening had been caused by the BULLETS?

Robinson: Not really, well, I guess I can because a good bit of the bone had been blown away.
There was nothing there to piece together, so I would probably say about (the size of) a small orange.

Purdy: Could you give us an estimate of inches and the nature of the shape?
Robinson: Three.

Purdy: And the shape?
Robinson: Circular.

Purdy: Was it fairly smooth or fairly ragged?
Robinson: Ragged.

Purdy: Approximately where was this wound located?
Robinson: Directly behind the back of the head.
(ARRB, MD-63, pp. 1-2)

        Well done.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 17, 2018, 10:46:12 PM
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Exactly, you made a disparaging racist comment based on absolutely no verifiable evidence at all, Hmmmm, I'm starting to see a pattern!

What disparaging, racist comment?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 17, 2018, 10:49:07 PM
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(https://s15.postimg.cc/vdypaxcgb/Eyewitness_inconsistencies.gif)

Notice how none of "Mytton"'s jumping dots correspond to the official head wound location.  None.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 17, 2018, 10:51:47 PM
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(http://odbic.com/images/jfkBackWound.png)

- Why do you pick that particular spot on the back?

- Why do you think you can line up two photos taken at different distances, angles, etc and get meaningful measurements?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 17, 2018, 11:28:00 PM
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Notice how none of "Mytton"'s jumping dots correspond to the official head wound location.  None.




Well duh, they're your pathetic eyewitnesses, live with it!



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mike Orr on July 18, 2018, 12:11:44 AM
Do you actually think that Thomas Robinson would have been wrong about what he had to do to make JFK presentable for his funeral . Robinson worked on those wounds to close them up as any mortician would do. So Thomas Robinson was wrong about what he saw along with the Parkland Hospital Drs. & Nurses who worked on JFK & the photographers who took pictures of the wounds before Dr. Humes added some wounds that nobody saw at Parkland . If Parkland had seen the HUMES WOUNDS ( throat gash ) , top of the head, side of the head but mysteriously miss this baseball size blowout in the BACK of the head (which is what Parkland saw) along with a frontal bullet hole in the throat which had a small incision ( not a gash ) for a tracheostomy then we would not be having this conversation . As Robinson said about the wounds ," That's what the Drs.  did ". Who orchestrated HUMES and the others to do what they did ??????????
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 18, 2018, 12:21:45 AM
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Do you actually think that Thomas Robinson would have been wrong about what he had to do to make JFK presentable for his funeral . Robinson worked on those wounds to close them up as any mortician would do. So Thomas Robinson was wrong about what he saw along with the Parkland Hospital Drs. & Nurses who worked on JFK & the photographers who took pictures of the wounds before Dr. Humes added some wounds that nobody saw at Parkland . If Parkland had seen the HUMES WOUNDS ( throat gash ) , top of the head, side of the head but mysteriously miss this baseball size blowout in the BACK of the head (which is what Parkland saw) along with a frontal bullet hole in the throat which had a small incision ( not a gash ) for a tracheostomy then we would not be having this conversation . As Robinson said about the wounds ," That's what the Drs.  did ". Who orchestrated HUMES and the others to do what they did ??????????





Quote
Dr. Humes added some wounds that nobody saw at Parkland

When flesh is cut there is a huge difference between the results of a live and dead person and according to your witness Cyril Wecht would be instantly noticeable..

Btw the fatal flaw in your argument is why would they drop the ball in the final seconds and idiotically give the body to someone who wasn't clued in to your deception? Doh!



JohnM



Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mitch Todd on July 18, 2018, 12:25:27 AM
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I suppose you could find a local Dallas mortician to mix up some plaster of paris
then stretch a piece of rubber over the gaping hole at the back of the President's head -- :D

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/846/41307299300_a0106c55fb_b.jpg)
                                                                                                                                      author Joe West notes

Thomas Robinson
Gawler's Funeral Home

testimony before the Assassination Records Review Board

Purdy: Could you tell how large the opening had been caused by the BULLETS?

Robinson: Not really, well, I guess I can because a good bit of the bone had been blown away.
There was nothing there to piece together, so I would probably say about (the size of) a small orange.

Purdy: Could you give us an estimate of inches and the nature of the shape?
Robinson: Three.

Purdy: And the shape?
Robinson: Circular.

Purdy: Was it fairly smooth or fairly ragged?
Robinson: Ragged.

Purdy: Approximately where was this wound located?
Robinson: Directly behind the back of the head.
(ARRB, MD-63, pp. 1-2)

Not to be a pest or anything, but Andy Purdy worked for the HSCA, not the ARRB.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Capasse on July 18, 2018, 01:00:27 AM
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Not to be a pest or anything, but Andy Purdy worked for the HSCA, not the ARRB.

Thanx for the correction Mitch  - you're right it is HSCA (1977)
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=327&search=purdy#relPageId=2&tab=page

I mixed it up with this file ARRB (1996)
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=711#relPageId=1&tab=page
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve Logan on July 18, 2018, 02:52:36 PM
Is this the Robinson that was present and when Kennedy's body was turned over saw no other wounds below the back of the head?
That Robinson?
Oh he's credible.
 :-\
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 18, 2018, 03:02:45 PM
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Is this the Robinson that was present and when Kennedy's body was turned over saw no other wounds below the back of the head?
That Robinson?
Oh he's credible.
 :-\

          If you have a "quote" from Tom Robinson to present as evidence, please provide the "quote" and the source from which it was obtained. What you have posted above is nothing more than a question.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve Logan on July 18, 2018, 06:47:28 PM
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          If you have a "quote" from Tom Robinson to present as evidence, please provide the "quote" and the source from which it was obtained. What you have posted above is nothing more than a question.

You want me to do your work?
I'm retired.
Find it yourself.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mike Orr on July 18, 2018, 11:34:00 PM
JM-------Why did they drop the ball ?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on July 19, 2018, 03:05:53 PM
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          If you have a "quote" from Tom Robinson to present as evidence, please provide the "quote" and the source from which it was obtained. What you have posted above is nothing more than a question.

In his interview with the HSCA, Robinson said, in part, this:  "....but the back itself, there was no wound there, no."

His entire account, to me, is confused and contradictory and essentially worthless. Maybe he confused the neck with the back? He said he was in the spectators gallery as the three doctors performed their autopsy. How clear of a look could he have gotten?

Here:
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2hefvvm.jpg)

His complete testimony is here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=327&search=Thomas_Robinson#relPageId=1&tab=page
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Capasse on July 19, 2018, 03:14:41 PM
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In his interview with the HSCA, Robinson said, in part, this:  "....but the back itself, there was no wound there, no."

His entire account, to me, is confused and contradictory and essentially worthless.

Here:
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2hefvvm.jpg)

His complete testimony is here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=327&search=Thomas_Robinson#relPageId=1&tab=page

He's talking about the back of the body; below the head
 ??? what are you talking about?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 19, 2018, 03:37:27 PM
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He's talking about the back of the body; below the head
 ??? what are you talking about?


       Yeah. When reading the Entire Interview, Tom Robinson clearly describes a Wound; (1) Location = BACK of JFK's Head, (2) Height = Between the Ears, (3) Size = 3 Inches, and (4) Condition = Ragged.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve Logan on July 19, 2018, 03:42:57 PM
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       Yeah. When reading the Entire Interview, Tom Robinson clearly describes a Wound; (1) Location = BACK of JFK's Head, (2) Height = Between the Ears, (3) Size = 3 Inches, and (4) Condition = Ragged.

Gee he missed that back wound. You know, that area from the head wound down to the waist, that back.

This guy is full of sh*t.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on July 19, 2018, 04:23:29 PM
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He's talking about the back of the body; below the head
 ??? what are you talking about?


I'm not talking about anything. I am quoting from Robinson's HSCA testimony statement (he wasn't under oath at the time.)

Steve Logan was challenged to document where Robinson said he saw no wound on JFK's back.  I just quoted Robinson saying this: "....but the back itself, there was no wound there, no."

If you read my post you can see where I was responding to Royell Storing's question/challenge.

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on July 19, 2018, 04:25:21 PM
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       Yeah. When reading the Entire Interview, Tom Robinson clearly describes a Wound; (1) Location = BACK of JFK's Head, (2) Height = Between the Ears, (3) Size = 3 Inches, and (4) Condition = Ragged.

You asked Steve Logan to document where Robinson said he saw no back wound.

In his HSCA testimony, Robinson said:"....but the back itself, there was no wound there, no."
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on July 19, 2018, 04:31:14 PM
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Gee he missed that back wound. You know, that area from the head wound down to the waist, that back.

This guy is full of sh*t.

Royell Storing challenged you to show where he said he saw no back wound.

It was just shown.

I agree that he's just not credible. In fact, I don't think he was in the room during most of the autopsy. He was back at the Gawkers funeral home and only arrived later when he delivered the casket that JFK was to be buried in. How could he miss the back wound? Humes and Boswell said they spent a lot of time trying to determine where the bullet went.

The Kennedy people - Powers, O'Brien - said in the Manchester book that they selected the casket late in the evening, after about 11:00 p.m. After they selected it it was delivered to Bethesda. I think that was when Robinson arrived.

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 19, 2018, 04:40:08 PM
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You asked Steve Logan to document where Robinson said he saw no back wound.

In his HSCA testimony, Robinson said:"....but the back itself, there was no wound there, no."

                      Reading the Entire INTERVIEW does reveal there was confusion concerning the BACK of JFK and the BACK OF THE HEAD of JFK.  Robinson also describes seeing a Probe being inserted/used. Do you believe he is describing a Probe being inserted into the BACK of the HEAD of JFK at a level = between the ears?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on July 19, 2018, 05:01:29 PM
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                      Reading the Entire INTERVIEW does reveal there was confusion concerning the BACK of JFK and the BACK OF THE HEAD of JFK.  Robinson also describes seeing a Probe being inserted/used. Do you believe he is describing a Probe being inserted into the BACK of the HEAD of JFK at a level = between the ears?

You asked where Robinson said he saw no back wound. I just cited where he said that.

As to the location where the probe was inserted: Robinson doesn't have a clue. He's completely confused about it. His testimony on it, for me, is worthless.

He says this: "It [apparently where the probe was inserted] was at the base of the head where most of the damage was done, that things that we had to worry about. So it all runs together in my mind."

Here's the relevant sections:
Purdy: Were there any wounds in the neck, the back?
Robinson: Now this is where I'm hazy. I can remember the probe. The probe of all this whole area. It was about an 18 piece of metal that we [we?] used.
Purdy: Do you feel they probed the head or they probed the neck?
Robinson: It was at the base of the head where most of the damage was done, that things that we had to worry about. So it all runs together in my mind.

Later:
Purdy: What is your impression as either how far or in what direction they probed with that probe?
Purdy: Or any discussion about the actual probing to indicate either the direction or the depth?
Robinson: I remember they talked about it. They took notes, made notes.

And this:
Purdy: On this probe, do you remember if the probe went all the way through wherever they probed, do you remember...
Robinson: I don't recall.

I'll offer that he didn't see any of this. He sincerely thinks he saw a probe but he wasn't even there at the time. He was back at Gawker's Gawlers during most of the autopsy and only saw the last part of if.


Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve Logan on July 19, 2018, 05:20:14 PM
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Royell Storing challenged you to show where he said he saw no back wound.

It was just shown.

I agree that he's just not credible. In fact, I don't think he was in the room during most of the autopsy. He was back at the Gawkers funeral home and only arrived later when he delivered the casket that JFK was to be buried in. How could he miss the back wound? Humes and Boswell said they spent a lot of time trying to determine where the bullet went.

The Kennedy people - Powers, O'Brien - said in the Manchester book that they selected the casket late in the evening, after about 11:00 p.m. After they selected it it was delivered to Bethesda. I think that was when Robinson arrived.

Exactly, some of the nuttier nuts tend to hang their hats on loose nails.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 19, 2018, 05:29:13 PM
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You asked where Robinson said he saw no back wound. I just cited where he said that.

As to the location where the probe was inserted: Robinson doesn't have a clue. He's completely confused about it. His testimony on it, for me, is worthless.

He says this: "It [apparently where the probe was inserted] was at the base of the head where most of the damage was done, that things that we had to worry about. So it all runs together in my mind."

Here's the relevant sections:
Purdy: Were there any wounds in the neck, the back?
Robinson: Now this is where I'm hazy. I can remember the probe. The probe of all this whole area. It was about an 18 piece of metal that we [we?] used.
Purdy: Do you feel they probed the head or they probed the neck?
Robinson: It was at the base of the head where most of the damage was done, that things that we had to worry about. So it all runs together in my mind.

Later:
Purdy: What is your impression as either how far or in what direction they probed with that probe?
Purdy: Or any discussion about the actual probing to indicate either the direction or the depth?
Robinson: I remember they talked about it. They took notes, made notes.

And this:
Purdy: On this probe, do you remember if the probe went all the way through wherever they probed, do you remember...
Robinson: I don't recall.

I'll offer that he didn't see any of this. He sincerely thinks he saw a probe but he wasn't even there at the time. He was back at Gawker's during most of the autopsy and only saw the last part of if.

        I am not quibbling as to your providing Robinson saying there was nothing on JFK's Back at 1 point. You need to remember that this is NOT "Testimony" as you state above. This is an INTERVIEW. Attorneys for the WC also conducted "interviews". This avoided prospective witnesses: (1) Being called to testify, (2) Dropping a Bomb on the official record should the Q/A wander into an unwanted area(s).   When do we get into Robinson seeing Humes using a bone saw on the head of JFK?   
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve Logan on July 19, 2018, 06:58:33 PM
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        I am not quibbling as to your providing Robinson saying there was nothing on JFK's Back at 1 point. You need to remember that this is NOT "Testimony" as you state above. This is an INTERVIEW. Attorneys for the WC also conducted "interviews". This avoided prospective witnesses: (1) Being called to testify, (2) Dropping a Bomb on the official record should the Q/A wander into an unwanted area(s).   When do we get into Robinson seeing Humes using a bone saw on the head of JFK?

Wow, Ginger would be proud of you Fred. You asked for something (because you're too frigging lazy to find it yourself) Steve gave it to you. Now it has to be "Testimony" or it's useless. You're a riot. There was no trial . There's not going to be any trial. Bill Weld closed the case. Now all you can do is sit back and wait to see what's in all those files that you'll never see .   z z z z z z z z z z z
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on July 19, 2018, 07:35:03 PM
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        I am not quibbling as to your providing Robinson saying there was nothing on JFK's Back at 1 point. You need to remember that this is NOT "Testimony" as you state above. This is an INTERVIEW. Attorneys for the WC also conducted "interviews". This avoided prospective witnesses: (1) Being called to testify, (2) Dropping a Bomb on the official record should the Q/A wander into an unwanted area(s).   When do we get into Robinson seeing Humes using a bone saw on the head of JFK?

You are correct. It wasn't "testimony" since, apparently, he wasn't under oath. It was an interview.

I was wrong to label it as such.



Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on July 19, 2018, 07:39:30 PM
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Exactly, some of the nuttier nuts tend to hang their hats on loose nails.

As we've said before, you can't just strip out one interview or account and run with it. You have to weigh all of the other evidence.

William Manchester said that he interviewed Dave Powers, John Hagan and the two Gawler brothers, owners of the funeral home, in 1964 for his book. Powers noted his activities that day (11/22/63) and they show that he and the other WH staff, e.g., Lawrence O'Brien, picked out the casket that JFK was to be buried in from Gawlers at about midnight. Then he, Hagan, Gawler, and, from Power's note, their "young cosmetician" - I believe it was Thomas Robinson - left in the hearse with it headed to Bethesda soon after.

Again, that was around midnight.

So, did Robinson leave the autopsy, return to the funeral home, and then return to Bethesda with the casket? Or was he never there before arriving with the mortician team around midnight? Or was Powers referring to someone else?

 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Capasse on July 19, 2018, 08:17:23 PM
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As we've said before, you can't just strip out one interview or account and run with it. You have to weigh all of the other evidence.

William Manchester said that he interviewed Dave Powers, John Hagan and the two Gawler brothers, owners of the funeral home, in 1964 for his book. Powers noted his activities that day (11/22/63) and they show that he and the other WH staff, e.g., Lawrence O'Brien, picked out the casket that JFK was to be buried in from Gawlers at about midnight. Then he, Hagan, Gawler, and, from Power's note, their "young cosmetician" - I believe it was Thomas Robinson - left in the hearse with it headed to Bethesda soon after.

Again, that was around midnight.

So, did Robinson leave the autopsy, return to the funeral home, and then return to Bethesda with the casket? Or was he never there before arriving with the mortician team around midnight? Or was Powers referring to someone else?

well then, who can we rely on...?
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=711#relPageId=1&tab=page

...according to Joe Hagan, [to ARRB] - Mr Robinson is the one person who had the most to do with the reconstruction of President Kennedy's head, and should be able to give us the best description. 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 19, 2018, 10:38:55 PM
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Well duh, they're your pathetic eyewitnesses, live with it!

And yet it's supposed to somehow prove that they all actually saw a top of the head wound.   :D
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Paul May on July 20, 2018, 02:57:30 AM
Gary Mack was my friend for many years. We had dinner in Dallas, spoke often by phone and exchanged emails frequently.  Garyís position on 11/22/63 was quite simple. He was not a dedicated CT nor a supportive LN. It was always about what could be proven and what could not be proven. This one statement by Gary sums it up:

ďThere may have been a conspiracy to kill Kennedy but I canít prove it nor can anybody elseĒ.

The point today, 55 years later is no hard nor credible evidence has ever been produced for conspiracy. Ever. Nor will it.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 20, 2018, 03:25:46 AM
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And yet it's supposed to somehow prove that they all actually saw a top of the head wound.   :D


Let's see, on one side we have the Xrays, the autopsy photos, the Zapruder Film, first day TV interviews, the autopsy doctors and some Parkland Doctors Vs some other Parkland Doctors.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/pacjd0haj/alotofevidence2a.jpg)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 20, 2018, 03:29:06 AM
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Mytton continually ignores the actual evidence and instead relies on this stuff instead. Why does the actual evidence scare him so much?





HUH? How is the Xrays, Autopsy Photos, eyewitnesses, The Zapruder film not actual evidence?



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mitch Todd on July 20, 2018, 04:22:59 AM
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well then, who can we rely on...?
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=711#relPageId=1&tab=page

...according to Joe Hagan, [to ARRB] - Mr Robinson is the one person who had the most to do with the reconstruction of President Kennedy's head, and should be able to give us the best description. 

Van Hoesen told the ARRB that Stroble was responsible for the reconstruction of the head.

Robinson told Horne that he didn't do the reconstruction, Van Hoesen did. Go figure.

In his HSCA interview, Robinson says of his role "I did the cosmetic," and his comments about the body are couched in the context of a cosmetician's work. He did say that everyone helped with the reconstruction, but he never says that he was responsible for it, or for a considerable portion of it. He also noted that Stroble was responsible for cutting a rubber sheet to seal the skull where bone and or scalp was missing. That implies that Van Hoesen is more likely correct in that Stroble was responsible for the reconstruction work.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mitch Todd on July 20, 2018, 04:33:21 AM
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As we've said before, you can't just strip out one interview or account and run with it. You have to weigh all of the other evidence.

William Manchester said that he interviewed Dave Powers, John Hagan and the two Gawler brothers, owners of the funeral home, in 1964 for his book. Powers noted his activities that day (11/22/63) and they show that he and the other WH staff, e.g., Lawrence O'Brien, picked out the casket that JFK was to be buried in from Gawlers at about midnight. Then he, Hagan, Gawler, and, from Power's note, their "young cosmetician" - I believe it was Thomas Robinson - left in the hearse with it headed to Bethesda soon after.

Again, that was around midnight.

So, did Robinson leave the autopsy, return to the funeral home, and then return to Bethesda with the casket? Or was he never there before arriving with the mortician team around midnight? Or was Powers referring to someone else?

In DoaP, Powers and his notes only said that the casket was selected around midnight. The "young cosmetician" is Manchester's words, and would have come from Hagen (who Manchester interviewed) or either of the Gawlers that Manchester talked to. AFAIK, the Gawler's crew was Joe Gawler, Hagen, Stroble, Van Hoesen, and Robinson and no one else. None of them have ever to my knowledge said that there was anyone else. Also, Sibert and O'Neill listed Hagen, Robinson, Stroble, and Van Hoesen as the embalming team. Robinson, who told the ARRB that he rode with Hagen, has to be the "young cosmetician." Which would put his entrance very late.   
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Pat Speer on July 20, 2018, 09:01:07 AM
Yikes. This is yet another thread in which I mostly cross the line and agree with the LNs.

1. As documented ad nauseum on my website, the widespread belief the eyewitnesses (or even the Parkland eyewitnesses) all claimed the large head wound was on the far back of the head is a myth. As demonstrated by Mytton's gif, the so-called BOH witnesses actually placed the wound over a large area, with many of these witnesses placing the wound closer to where it is shown in the autopsy photos than where it is shown in the so-called McClelland drawing.
2, Robinson, for that matter, is a particularly bad witness for a large wound at the back of the head. The orange-sized wound he described was the wound at the end of the autopsy, which was then hidden in a pillow. This is as one would expect. Stroble was, after all, a cosmetician, and not a forensic anthropologist. His job was to make the president presentable for an open-casket funeral. So, of course, scalp and bone were re-arranged so that the missing scalp and bone were on the back of the head, where the hole could be hidden from view.
3. The LN claim the back wound was inches above the throat wound is, however, utter nonsense. The HSCA FPP (8 LNs and one CT) all concluded that the back wound was lower than the throat wound when the body was placed in the anatomic position. This is not some CT myth made up by Wecht. Read the HSCA's report, for crying out loud. The photo comparison which makes out that the back wound was above the throat wound, for that matter, is a total sham, long debunked. Look at the ears. The ears in the back wound photo are half the size of the ears in the profile photo. And that's because the photos are improperly sized to help create the illusion the back wound was higher than the throat wound. Look, furthermore, at the level of the throat wound in the profile photo. Does anyone really believe the throat wound is at that level in the back wound photo, 4 inches or so below the shoulder tips? Of course not. 4 inches or so below the shoulder tips is the level of one's chest, not throat.
4. As for Gary, he was like most people--a little too enthralled with his own pet theories, a little too dismissive of those with whom he disagreed. But I can see how that came to be. There's a lot of sloppy thinking on both sides, IMO, and putting up with glossy eyed newbies who think they've solved everything when they barely know anything would have to have taken its toll. I'm not sure how many on this forum have been to Dallas. But if you go to Dealey Plaza you're bound to run into someone who'll ask you who killed Kennedy, and then cuts you off before you can say you really don't know...to tell you who they think did it....without any real evidence. (On my last trip, I was prepared for this, and when that day's "guy" started to tell me his chosen bad guy, I surprised him by guessing, correctly, that he thought Onassis was behind it.) In any event, Gary had to put up with this kind of stuff 200 times a year for 20 years. No wonder he got burnt out. RIP.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Chris Scally on July 20, 2018, 09:28:10 AM
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Gary Mack was my friend for many years. We had dinner in Dallas, spoke often by phone and exchanged emails frequently.  Garyís position on 11/22/63 was quite simple. He was not a dedicated CT nor a supportive LN. It was always about what could be proven and what could not be proven. This one statement by Gary sums it up:

ďThere may have been a conspiracy to kill Kennedy but I canít prove it nor can anybody elseĒ.

The point today, 55 years later is no hard nor credible evidence has ever been produced for conspiracy. Ever. Nor will it.

Thanks for those few words, Paul, and particularly Gary's statement, which has stood the test of time. He said it repeatedly to anyone who bothered to listen, and he was absolutely correct! 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Walton on July 20, 2018, 11:54:08 AM
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Yikes. This is yet another thread in which I mostly cross the line and agree with the LNs.


Pat, so you don't think that someone like Mack, who first pushed a theory of a man dressed as a policeman shot Kennedy (and this man was among the blobs in one of the photos) shot Kennedy, then switches sides and is the star of many shows made by Discovery that were, to say the least, dishonest...is just a tad disingenuous?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Capasse on July 20, 2018, 01:42:02 PM
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Yikes. This is yet another thread in which I mostly cross the line and agree with the LNs.

1. As documented ad nauseum on my website, the widespread belief the eyewitnesses (or even the Parkland eyewitnesses) all claimed the large head wound was on the far back of the head is a myth. As demonstrated by Mytton's gif, the so-called BOH witnesses actually placed the wound over a large area, with many of these witnesses placing the wound closer to where it is shown in the autopsy photos than where it is shown in the so-called McClelland drawing.
2, Robinson, for that matter, is a particularly bad witness for a large wound at the back of the head. The orange-sized wound he described was the wound at the end of the autopsy, which was then hidden in a pillow. This is as one would expect. Stroble was, after all, a cosmetician, and not a forensic anthropologist. His job was to make the president presentable for an open-casket funeral. So, of course, scalp and bone were re-arranged so that the missing scalp and bone were on the back of the head, where the hole could be hidden from view.
3. The LN claim the back wound was inches above the throat wound is, however, utter nonsense. The HSCA FPP (8 LNs and one CT) all concluded that the back wound was lower than the throat wound when the body was placed in the anatomic position. This is not some CT myth made up by Wecht. Read the HSCA's report, for crying out loud. The photo comparison which makes out that the back wound was above the throat wound, for that matter, is a total sham, long debunked. Look at the ears. The ears in the back wound photo are half the size of the ears in the profile photo. And that's because the photos are improperly sized to help create the illusion the back wound was higher than the throat wound. Look, furthermore, at the level of the throat wound in the profile photo. Does anyone really believe the throat wound is at that level in the back wound photo, 4 inches or so below the shoulder tips? Of course not. 4 inches or so below the shoulder tips is the level of one's chest, not throat.
4. As for Gary, he was like most people--a little too enthralled with his own pet theories, a little too dismissive of those with whom he disagreed. But I can see how that came to be. There's a lot of sloppy thinking on both sides, IMO, and putting up with glossy eyed newbies who think they've solved everything when they barely know anything would have to have taken its toll. I'm not sure how many on this forum have been to Dallas. But if you go to Dealey Plaza you're bound to run into someone who'll ask you who killed Kennedy, and then cuts you off before you can say you really don't know...to tell you who they think did it....without any real evidence. (On my last trip, I was prepared for this, and when that day's "guy" started to tell me his chosen bad guy, I surprised him by guessing, correctly, that he thought Onassis was behind it.) In any event, Gary had to put up with this kind of stuff 200 times a year for 20 years. No wonder he got burnt out. RIP.

HI Pat -so...
Is there a large hole at the back of the PREZs head or not ?
are ALL the witnesses from DP to Parkland to Bethesda all mistaken about the same thing [exact location aside]?

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 20, 2018, 03:27:42 PM
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In DoaP, Powers and his notes only said that the casket was selected around midnight. The "young cosmetician" is Manchester's words, and would have come from Hagen (who Manchester interviewed) or either of the Gawlers that Manchester talked to. AFAIK, the Gawler's crew was Joe Gawler, Hagen, Stroble, Van Hoesen, and Robinson and no one else. None of them have ever to my knowledge said that there was anyone else. Also, Sibert and O'Neill listed Hagen, Robinson, Stroble, and Van Hoesen as the embalming team. Robinson, who told the ARRB that he rode with Hagen, has to be the "young cosmetician." Which would put his entrance very late.   


        The Manchester book is just that. A book. Id'ing someone based on 2nd hand Hearsay = "young cosmetician" is Exactly how Gary Mack came to wrongly ID McKinnon as the lady on the ground near the Stemmons sign. And that Boner was cavalierly accepted as fact for roughly 30 years.  The above is nothing more than once again repeating a bone headed process which the JFK Research Community has repeatedly Proven to be faulty. 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 20, 2018, 05:15:33 PM
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Let's see, on one side we have the Xrays, the autopsy photos, the Zapruder Film, first day TV interviews, the autopsy doctors and some Parkland Doctors Vs some other Parkland Doctors.

Other than your dishonest screenshots where you take a frame out of a film sequence when the hand is situated where you want it to be, what Parkland staff described the head wound that you believe in?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mitch Todd on July 20, 2018, 06:46:33 PM
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        The Manchester book is just that. A book. Id'ing someone based on 2nd hand Hearsay = "young cosmetician" is Exactly how Gary Mack came to wrongly ID McKinnon as the lady on the ground near the Stemmons sign. And that Boner was cavalierly accepted as fact for roughly 30 years.  The above is nothing more than once again repeating a bone headed process which the JFK Research Community has repeatedly Proven to be faulty.

Look at the other post I wrote.

We know from what Robinson has told the ARRB and and HSCA investigators, both directly and indirectly, that his job was the cosmetic part.
Also, Robinson confirms Manchester, stating that he rode in with Hagen. Hagen agrees with Manchester that he didn't show up until late.

And Manchester didn't just make up the stuff in his book. He interviewed Powers, Hagen, and two of the Gawlers within about a year of the assassination.   
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 20, 2018, 07:12:31 PM
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Look at the other post I wrote.

We know from what Robinson has told the ARRB and and HSCA investigators, both directly and indirectly, that his job was the cosmetic part.
Also, Robinson confirms Manchester, stating that he rode in with Hagen. Hagen agrees with Manchester that he didn't show up until late.

And Manchester didn't just make up the stuff in his book. He interviewed Powers, Hagen, and two of the Gawlers within about a year of the assassination.

          Your pledging allegiance to the Manchester BOOK and its' 2nd hand information is up to you. My thought is that Tom Robinson would know the elapsed time between his eating dinner while watching the JFK Casket being unloaded from AF1, Suddenly Racing to Bethesda, walking into the morgue, and viewing Humes taking a bone saw to the head of the POTUS. Being Suddenly exposed to Events of this magnitude have a way of sticking with Everyday Joes.   
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Brown on July 20, 2018, 09:25:17 PM
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Pat, so you don't think that someone like Mack, who first pushed a theory of a man dressed as a policeman shot Kennedy (and this man was among the blobs in one of the photos) shot Kennedy, then switches sides and is the star of many shows made by Discovery that were, to say the least, dishonest...is just a tad disingenuous?

Mack did not "switch sides".

Pay attention.  Geez.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 21, 2018, 01:07:48 AM
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Other than your dishonest screenshots where you take a frame out of a film sequence when the hand is situated where you want it to be, what Parkland staff described the head wound that you believe in?




No, no, no the eyewitnesses are only the proverbial icing on the cake and are simply reinforcing the authentic Physical Evidence of Xrays, Autopsy photos and movies.

See when eyewitnesses recall reality they all corroborate.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/pacjd0haj/alotofevidence2a.jpg)

But when eyewitnesses smoke the wacky tobacky they hallucinate all over the place LOLOLOLOL!

(https://s15.postimg.cc/vdypaxcgb/Eyewitness_inconsistencies.gif)


Btw which eyewitness is demonstrating a position that didn't have a hole underneath?



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 21, 2018, 01:23:35 AM
So, basically youíre saying that all the Parkland personnel reported a back of the head wound because they were toking it up before the assassination? Seems plausible...
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 21, 2018, 01:45:07 AM
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So, basically youíre saying that all the Parkland personnel reported a back of the head wound because they were toking it up before the assassination? Seems plausible...




So basically your saying that all the following eyewitnesses lied and the authentic physical evidence was somehow faked, please do tell?

(https://s15.postimg.cc/pacjd0haj/alotofevidence2a.jpg)

Btw how many of your eye witnesses actually touched and examined the head wound?



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 21, 2018, 02:19:41 AM
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So basically your saying that all the following eyewitnesses lied and the authentic physical evidence was somehow faked, please do tell?

No, Iím saying that 20+ people at Parkland described a back of the head wound.

Quote
Btw how many of your eye witnesses actually touched and examined the head wound?

LOL. How many of yours did? Newman? Zapruder?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 21, 2018, 02:48:02 AM
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No, Iím saying that 20+ people at Parkland described a back of the head wound.

LOL. How many of yours did? Newman? Zapruder?




Quote
No, Iím saying that 20+ people at Parkland described a back of the head wound.

It only happened one way.

Quote
LOL. How many of yours did? Newman? Zapruder?

The most important eyewitness is dead center, Humes had the appropriate training and wrote a comprehensive and detailed autopsy report that perfectly reflects all the other professional eyewitnesses.



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mike Orr on July 21, 2018, 04:02:13 AM
Get over it JM , you're wrong !
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Pat Speer on July 21, 2018, 09:48:08 AM
I would agree, Rob, that the WC's conclusions are "sunk", but not because of the confusion regarding the head wounds.

Many of the witnesses you cited were shown the autopsy photos and deferred to their accuracy. Some were asked to point out the head wound location they'd described as being on the back of the head, and pointed to a location above the ear, its location in the autopsy photos. In any event, there is no consensus for a wound LOW on the back of the head--where most CTs place the wound after being shown the so-called McClelland drawing, and being told this is where the Parkland witnesses placed the wound.

The confusion spread through a series of steps.

1. Some witnesses thought shots came from in front of Kennedy.
2. Some witnesses thought they saw smoke on the knoll.
3. Several Parkland witnesses thought the large head wound was on the back of the head.
4. Several Parkland doctors saw scrambled brain fall from the skull onto the stretcher or floor and assumed this was cerebellum.


Well, this ia pretty convincing. But when you look closer it begins to fall apart.

1. A number of witnesses thought the large head wound was on the top of the head, not back.
2. A number of those who said it was on the back of the head pointed out a location on the top of the head.
3. Most of the "cerebellum" witnesses came to claim they could have been mistaken, or that they saw cerebellum while looking down into the skull from a wound at the top of the head, and that, in any event, there was no blow-out wound on the back of the head between the ears, where most CTs place the wound.

Well, this leaves open the possibility the wound was actually at the top of the back of the head, a couple of inches behind where it is shown in the photographs. But it makes little sense to me that the autopsy doctors would be a party to concealing a wound in this location...since this is where they placed the wound in the drawings they'd had created from the commission.

No, I think it's far better to focus on the wound location they moved for the drawings--the back wound. The movement of this wound by the WC is, for me, the proof of the cover-up. And I'll go further than that. IF the HSCA had focused on this one aspect--who moved the wound for the WC's drawings, and why--they would have buried the WC's reputation. But no, they let Specter off the hook, which perhaps wasn't all that surprising considering he'd finagled his son onto the HSCA's staff.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mike Orr on July 21, 2018, 11:25:46 PM
Sorry , Pat but I can't go against the Parkland Staff for where they said the large head wound was located which was seen by so many . It's like the movement of the wounds to fit a lone gunman from the rear. It's like Gerald Ford's movement of the back wound to the base of the neck so the SBT will have a chance to work . I would like to know who orchestrated this whole charade of moving wounds to fit a crime . No disrespect to you Pat but I have to go with Parkland observations .
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Pat Speer on July 22, 2018, 08:52:36 AM
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Sorry , Pat but I can't go against the Parkland Staff for where they said the large head wound was located which was seen by so many . It's like the movement of the wounds to fit a lone gunman from the rear. It's like Gerald Ford's movement of the back wound to the base of the neck so the SBT will have a chance to work . I would like to know who orchestrated this whole charade of moving wounds to fit a crime . No disrespect to you Pat but I have to go with Parkland observations .

That's my point, Mike. When you compare the witness statements to the autopsy measurements and the drawings created for the commission, it's clear the back wound was moved. But this just isn't true for the head wound. The head wound depicted in CE 388 is high on the back of the head, slightly behind where it is shown in the autopsy photos. This is where the Parkland witnesses on average placed the wound. This leads to a question. If the WC was so brazen as to move the back wound...why didn't they move the head wound? For me, the answer is clear. it's because the WC didn't think they needed to move the head wound. It's not that they wouldn't have, if they'd felt they needed to. The Clark Panel, after all, moved the entrance wound when they realized the WC's trajectory made little sense.

Now, some will try to sell you that because some witnesses thought the large head wound was further back on the skull than shown in the autopsy photos this means they disavowed the photos and that the photos are thereby discredited, but this is a bunch of hooey. The vast majority of witnesses to view the autopsy photos assumed they were authentic, and showed the wounds they saw. Many of those cited as "back of the head" witnesses, in fact, defended the authenticity of the autopsy photos, and assumed they'd been mistaken. In fact, when one looks closely at this issue, and reads all the statements and testimony, one finds that "conspiracy" writers such as (well, you know who they are) have routinely misrepresented the statements of the Parkland (and Bethesda) witnesses to sell their embarrassing belief the large head wound observed at Parkland was a gaping hole low on the back of JFK's head between his ears. I discuss this ad nauseum in chapters 18c and 18d of patspeer.com.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Walton on July 22, 2018, 11:19:20 AM
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Mack did not "switch sides".

Pay attention.  Geez.

You don't know what you're talking about.  I'd advise you to go to Kennedys and King and do a search.  Mack used to be only a CT and then got hired and "switched sides."  If you don't consider that "switching sides" then I feel sorry for you.

And if you don't think many of the dishonest shows that he hosted on Discovery were dishonest, then I also feel sorry for you. Take the wool away from your eyes, please.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Walton on July 22, 2018, 11:28:49 AM
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It only happened one way.

The most important eyewitness is dead center, Humes had the appropriate training and wrote a comprehensive and detailed autopsy report that perfectly reflects all the other professional eyewitnesses.

JohnM

To john Myton - explain this please?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Hr9Lrku-Cxdm9ZalJTSWU3cms/view

Note the beveled outshoot (circular shape).
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Walt Cakebread on July 22, 2018, 01:18:37 PM
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To john Myton - explain this please?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Hr9Lrku-Cxdm9ZalJTSWU3cms/view

Note the beveled outshoot (circular shape).

Michael,  You might as well be debating a doorknob.....    Mytton has the reasoning ability of a doorknob.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Agee on July 22, 2018, 02:51:54 PM
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That's my point, Mike. When you compare the witness statements to the autopsy measurements and the drawings created for the commission, it's clear the back wound was moved. But this just isn't true for the head wound. The head wound depicted in CE 388 is high on the back of the head, slightly behind where it is shown in the autopsy photos. This is where the Parkland witnesses on average placed the wound. This leads to a question. If the WC was so brazen as to move the back wound...why didn't they move the head wound? For me, the answer is clear. it's because the WC didn't think they needed to move the head wound. It's not that they wouldn't have, if they'd felt they needed to. The Clark Panel, after all, moved the entrance wound when they realized the WC's trajectory made little sense.

Now, some will try to sell you that because some witnesses thought the large head wound was further back on the skull than shown in the autopsy photos this means they disavowed the photos and that the photos are thereby discredited, but this is a bunch of hooey. The vast majority of witnesses to view the autopsy photos assumed they were authentic, and showed the wounds they saw. Many of those cited as "back of the head" witnesses, in fact, defended the authenticity of the autopsy photos, and assumed they'd been mistaken. In fact, when one looks closely at this issue, and reads all the statements and testimony, one finds that "conspiracy" writers such as (well, you know who they are) have routinely misrepresented the statements of the Parkland (and Bethesda) witnesses to sell their embarrassing belief the large head wound observed at Parkland was a gaping hole low on the back of JFK's head between his ears. I discuss this ad nauseum in chapters 18c and 18d of patspeer.com.

Pat, how many shots were fired, do you have a theory on this? Based on your claims, presentations, etc, I think you need at least 5 shots.

Let's say you are correct on the location of the President's back wound, and let's say you are correct that the single bullet theory is hooey. So the President's entrance "throat" wound would be a separate shot from the front, correct? Good luck showing a trajectory for that frontal shot that works. So we have at least 2 shots so far. Now we have to account for the Governor's wounds. According to your youtube presentation in 2014, the Governor's wounds do not line up for a single bullet. So how many bullets hit the Governor, two? three? And we have the President's head wound; clearly that is a separate bullet. Most witnesses heard 3 shots. Some heard 2 shots. The vast majority heard 2 or 3 shots. Yes, I know, witnesses are mistaken. Seems to me, you need at least 5 shots: 3 shots hit Kennedy (back, throat, head) and at least 2 shots hit the Governor (based on your claim that the Governor's wounds do not line up).

How many shots Pat? five? six?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 22, 2018, 04:45:52 PM


            The chain of possession of JFK's Body having been broken at some point between AF1 and Bethesda makes the consistent description of his head wound by the Parkland Professionals the only Professional Opinion bearing legal merit. Location = BACK of the Head. Earlier corroboration of the location of this wound is supplied by SA Clint Hill. 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 22, 2018, 05:51:14 PM
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No, Iím saying that 20+ people at Parkland described a back of the head wound.

LOL. How many of yours did? Newman? Zapruder?

Jackie
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 22, 2018, 06:01:51 PM
Key phrase to understand = 'rear portion'

Hill said the rear portion of the head
He also said blood and brain matter was all over the rear portion of the car

Take a look at a sample of 'rear portion', kiddies:

https://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/photo/the-rear-portion-of-a-rusty-car-high-res-stock-photography/ngs0_6195y
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Richard Smith on July 22, 2018, 06:03:18 PM
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We have no way of knowing if the autopsy X-rays and photographs are genuine. In fact, much work over the years has shown that they do not represent the actual wounds witnessed on November 22, 1963.

The old CT-Catch 22 mantra.  Don't like the evidence? Then suggest it is fake.  Therefore ensuring nothing can ever convince them of a fact they don't like. 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 22, 2018, 06:21:56 PM
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The old CT-Catch 22 mantra.  Don't like the evidence? Then suggest it is fake.  Therefore ensuring nothing can ever convince them of a fact they don't like.

It's the cognitive-dissonance thing: The facts don't match conspiracy-monger beliefs. Therefore to CTers, everyone just has to be lying, everything just has to be faked.

And I wonder how the Parkland doctors managed to see the back of the head without also seeing the back/neck wound.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 22, 2018, 07:36:36 PM
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You don't know what you're talking about.  I'd advise you to go to Kennedys and King and do a search.  Mack used to be only a CT and then got hired and "switched sides."  If you don't consider that "switching sides" then I feel sorry for you.

And if you don't think many of the dishonest shows that he hosted on Discovery were dishonest, then I also feel sorry for you. Take the wool away from your eyes, please.

'Take the wool away from your eyes, please'
 ???

Mack came to the conclusion that Oswald had help. That's been known for some time.
Maybe put away those shears and dip yourself into some honest research.

New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/17/us/gary-mack-kennedy-assassination-expert-dies-at-68.html

[EXCERPT]

Over time, he [Mack] adopted a much more measured view of the assassination.

ďI had learned the basics ó step back and look at all sides,Ē he told The Dallas Morning News, referring to his journalistic training. ďBut Iíd read all the pro-conspiracy books and was convinced they were probably right. When I decided to step back, I realized they werenít telling me the whole story, just one side of it.Ē

He eventually settled on what might be called conspiracy lite. That is, he doubted that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, and believed, at least, that there was more to the Oswald story than we know, but shed the more lurid hypotheses in favor of scientific detachment.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 22, 2018, 07:45:02 PM
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Jackie

Would that be Jacqueline "reference to wounds deleted" Kennedy?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 22, 2018, 07:46:51 PM
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The old CT-Catch 22 mantra.  Don't like the evidence? Then suggest it is fake.  Therefore ensuring nothing can ever convince them of a fact they don't like.

As opposed to the LN mantra that evidence they don't like is wrong because the person providing it is lying or mistaken.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 22, 2018, 07:51:32 PM
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It's the cognitive-dissonance thing: The facts don't match conspiracy-monger beliefs. Therefore to CTers, everyone just has to be lying, everything just has to be faked.

Do I need to repost the LN cavalcade of lying/mistaken witnesses?

Quote
And I wonder how the Parkland doctors managed to see the back of the head without also seeing the back/neck wound.

It's not rocket science, Bill.

(http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Autopsy_photos/tomsheadwound.jpg)
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 22, 2018, 07:58:07 PM
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ďBut Iíd read all the pro-conspiracy books and was convinced they were probably right. When I decided to step back, I realized they werenít telling me the whole story, just one side of it.Ē

That's a good description of the Warren Commission Report.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 22, 2018, 08:40:15 PM
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Jackie

          Jackie also said that SA Hill was laying down inside the JFK Limo with her and JFK. Are you also going to buy into that or are you going to join the Cherry Picking Society?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 22, 2018, 11:35:00 PM
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Do I need to repost the LN cavalcade of lying/mistaken witnesses?

It's not rocket science, Bill.

(http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Autopsy_photos/tomsheadwound.jpg)

Apparently is to you

Take a look at JFK at Parkland, see what you forgot to include in your 'recreation', and get back to us.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 22, 2018, 11:41:16 PM
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          Jackie also said that SA Hill was laying down inside the JFK Limo with her and JFK. Are you also going to buy into that or are you going to join the Cherry Picking Society?

'are you going to join the Cherry Picking Society?'
>>> I don't know... how much do you lot charge? Sounds like fun.

Anyway Jackie had the closest and longest view of the wounds of anybody. Seems to me the opportunity was there to question her in greater detail about the exact placement of the wounds. One can only speculate as to why they didn't. Possibly they wanted to spare her the gory details. Kinda like Zap holding the film back, and Ruby thinking he was sparing her in somewhat the same way, apparently.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 22, 2018, 11:59:57 PM
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It's not rocket science, Bill.

(http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Autopsy_photos/tomsheadwound.jpg)



That doesn't even look like a hole, considering that Kennedy was never turned over there are a lot of your eyewitnesses who give dimensions of a hole that they saw, what could they see?

But at the end of the day it doesn't matter, the genuine stereoscopic autopsy photos will be what history remembers.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/a828j7ufv/JFKBOH.gif)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 23, 2018, 12:42:10 AM
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'are you going to join the Cherry Picking Society?'
>>> I don't know... how much do you lot charge? Sounds like fun.

Anyway Jackie had the closest and longest view of the wounds of anybody. Seems to me the opportunity was there to question her in greater detail about the exact placement of the wounds. One can only speculate as to why they didn't. Possibly they wanted to spare her the gory details. Kinda like Zap holding the film back, and Ruby thinking he was sparing her in somewhat the same way, apparently.

        You need to explore other sources of information with regard to what Jackie saw. The WC lawyers were dealing marked cards with regard to the questions they asked Jackie and all other witnesses they Q/A'd.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 23, 2018, 07:48:57 AM
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Would that be Jacqueline "reference to wounds deleted" Kennedy?

Nah

"Top, behind the forehead"---JBK
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Brian Walker on July 23, 2018, 03:42:03 PM
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That's a good description of the Warren Commission Report.

Thanks for posting that picture John.  Now follow along.

Some parkland doctors said they saw the entire head would with JFK lying exactly like that.

Think it over John and tell us what that says.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 23, 2018, 05:57:12 PM
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Apparently is to you

Take a look at JFK at Parkland, see what you forgot to include in your 'recreation', and get back to us.

Are you for real?  The people who described his wounds did take a look at JFK at Parkland.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 23, 2018, 06:01:24 PM
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Thanks for posting that picture John.  Now follow along.

Some parkland doctors said they saw the entire head would with JFK lying exactly like that.

Think it over John and tell us what that says.

I think what it says is that JFK's head was not glued down to the gurney.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 23, 2018, 07:57:15 PM
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I think what it says is that JFK's head was not glued down to the gurney.

        Yeah. It's kind of ridiculous to believe that someone could be wheeled into a Trauma Room with a hole in the Back of their head the size of an orange and somehow the entire emergency staff missed it.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 23, 2018, 07:59:06 PM
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        Yeah. It's kind of ridiculous to believe that someone could be wheeled into a Trauma Room with a hole in the Back of their head the size of an orange and somehow the entire emergency staff missed it.

They were all mistaken, because you know they were just ER doctors, not navy administrators.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 23, 2018, 08:03:11 PM
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They were all mistaken, because you know they were just ER doctors, not navy administrators.

            Head Guy never having done an official autopsy
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 24, 2018, 03:44:17 AM
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Sorry, but their earliest recollections are the most accurate.



Sorry but you've been trumped, these are the earliest recollections of what happened and all these eyewitnesses with the freshest memories all describe the wound as seen in the Autopsy photos and the Zapruder film, you know the same wound as confirmed in the Autopsy Report.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/ied8dxinf/Dealey_Plaza_Eyewitnesses2_zpsc1d78c8b.gif)

You can't argue with science, the back of Kennedy's head shows only an entrance wound and NO exit wound.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/a828j7ufv/JFKBOH.gif)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 24, 2018, 03:53:08 AM
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So what is your excuse for what Police Chief Jesse Curry said? This is from my "Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions" series .

Quote on

Agent Hill finally convinced her [Jackie Kennedy] to let go of the President. Apparently she didnít want anyone to see that the BACK of the Presidentís head was PARTIALLY BLOWN OFF. He [Agent Hill] gave her his coat which she used to carefully wrap the Presidentís head and neck as five or six Secret Service men lifted him toward the stretcher. His body was limp like a dead manís, they struggled to get him on the stretcher. (Jesse Curry, JFK Assassination File, p. 32) (Emphasis mine)

Quote off



Curry wasn't an eyewitness, so what?, you're all just interpreting what Clint Hill said, stop trying to play mind reader.

Clint Hill couldn't be more clear about where he meant.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/aob1mbnnf/Clintshowem.gif)



JohnM





Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 24, 2018, 03:55:16 AM
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The current autopsy photographs do NOT match one eyewitness' account of the wounds that they saw on November 22, 1963. Live with it.





 BS:


(https://s15.postimg.cc/pacjd0haj/alotofevidence2a.jpg)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Brian Walker on July 24, 2018, 04:03:18 AM
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I think what it says is that JFK's head was not glued down to the gurney.

They said he was lying on his back and they saw the entire wound.They said he was never turned.

I believe that John has admitted that Oswald might have done it so I don't guy why he argues stuff like this.  IF you believe Oswald might have done it than you believe that the Doctors could have been wrong,.

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Brian Walker on July 24, 2018, 04:06:22 AM
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        Yeah. It's kind of ridiculous to believe that someone could be wheeled into a Trauma Room with a hole in the Back of their head the size of an orange and somehow the entire emergency staff missed it.

Those doctors agree that under the circumstances it was understandable that they were wrong.


Tell us why you assume that ER doctors can look at a wound on a head in that condition and be reliable about where the wound was.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 24, 2018, 04:47:08 PM
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They said he was lying on his back and they saw the entire wound.They said he was never turned.

I believe that John has admitted that Oswald might have done it so I don't guy why he argues stuff like this.  IF you believe Oswald might have done it than you believe that the Doctors could have been wrong,.

Because it strains credibility that 20+ experienced ER professionals all mistook the top of the head for the back of the head.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 24, 2018, 05:13:43 PM
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Those doctors agree that under the circumstances it was understandable that they were wrong.


Tell us why you assume that ER doctors can look at a wound on a head in that condition and be reliable about where the wound was.


            The same way I would assume that if Several Dr's viewed a broken leg they would Not place a cast on the patients arm.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 24, 2018, 08:02:51 PM
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Are you for real?  The people who described his wounds did take a look at JFK at Parkland.

Crenshaw LOL

And show us where I said people didn't [attempt to] look at wounds. By the way, who could see any actual wound except for the autopsy X Ray location (including wedge piece) despite the body never having been turned over in the OR?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Brown on July 24, 2018, 08:11:53 PM
In interviews with author Gerald Posner, the Parkland doctors were nearly unanimous in their agreement with the autopsy findings at Bethesda Naval Hospital.

Dr. Carrico points out, "We did [originally] say there was a parietal-occipital wound . . . and I think we were mistaken. The reason I say that is that the President was lying on his back and shoulders, and you could see the hole, with scalp and brain tissue hanging back down his head, and it covered most of the occipital [rear] portion of his head. We saw a large hole on the right side of his head. I don't believe we saw any occipital bone. It was not there. It was parietal bone. And if we said otherwise, we were mistaken."

Dr. Adolph Giesecke agrees. "I guess I have to say I was wrong in my Warren Commission testimony on the wound and in some of my pronouncements since then. I just never got that good of a look at it. . . . The truth is there was a massive head wound, with brain tissue and blood around it. And with that type of wound you could not get accurate information unless you feel around inside the hole and look into it in detail, and I certainly didn't do that, nor did I see anyone else do that."

Dr. Paul Peters, portrayed in JFK by I. D. Brickman (see photo above), also concedes his initial impression was inaccurate: ". . . I now believe the head wound is more forward than I first placed it. More to the side than the rear." Dr. Pepper Jenkins states, "The autopsy photo, with the rear of the head intact and a protrusion in the parietal [side] region, is the way I remember it. I never did say occipital."

"I don't think any of us got a good look at the head wound," says Dr. Malcolm Perry. "I did not look at it that closely. . . . But like everyone else, I saw it back there. It was in the occipital/parietal area. The occipital and parietal bone join each other, so we are only talking a centimeter or so in difference. And you must remember the President had a lot of hair, and it was bloody and matted, and it was difficult to tell where the wound started or finished."

Dr. Charles Baxter concurs: "He had such a bushy head of hair, and blood and all in it, you couldn't tell what was the wound versus dried blood or dangling tissue. I have been misquoted enough on this, some saying I claimed the whole back of his head was blown away. That's just wrong. I never even saw the back of his head. The wound was on the right side, not the back."

Dr. Ronald Jones confirms his colleagues' observations, adding he did not even realize for several minutes that there was a head wound. He finally noticed there was a "large side wound, with blood and tissue that extended toward the rear, from what you could tell of the mess that was there."

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100parkland.html
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Brian Walker on July 24, 2018, 10:09:54 PM
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Because it strains credibility that 20+ experienced ER professionals all mistook the top of the head for the back of the head.

Some of those doctors have said it was understandable considering the circumstances.  John Mytton has shown that the doctors were all over the place on where the wound was.  So they can be wrong obviously.


John could you show me a diagram of where the wound was that would jive with what the doctors said. Don't forget JFK was on his back. I have asked CTs for this many times.  You and the others don't want to do that.. You just want to play defense lawyer. You want it so you can just point out any doctor who didn't  say the wound was exactly where the WC said it was and act like you win. It doesn't matter to you that the Doctors disagree and are all over the place. As long as they say it wasn't exactly where the SC said it was that is good enough for you and your client.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Brian Walker on July 24, 2018, 10:12:52 PM
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            The same way I would assume that if Several Dr's viewed a broken leg they would Not place a cast on the patients arm.

 A clear lack of critical thinks skills.  The doctors were looking at a head of a guy lying on his back with his hair matted with blood and brian tissue.  Trying to compare  that to a broken leg is ridiculous.

I would assume when these doctors were trained they were trained to clean the area and take time observing the wound before they decide where a wound is. Do you disagree with that?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 24, 2018, 10:36:26 PM
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Some of those doctors have said it was understandable considering the circumstances.  John Mytton has shown that the doctors were all over the place on where the wound was.  So they can be wrong obviously.

Sure and so can panels looking at carefully curated and selected autopsy materials.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 24, 2018, 10:41:05 PM
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I would assume when these doctors were trained they were trained to clean the area and take time observing the wound before they decide where a wound is. Do you disagree with that?

You mean like nurses Bowron and Hinchcliffe did?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Walton on July 24, 2018, 11:04:46 PM
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While listening to a very good segment by Dr. Cyril Wecht , Cyril became quite disturbed when the mention of Gary Mack came into the discussion about Oswald being named as the Lone Nut assassin in the JFK case. It was also mentioned the 6th Floor Museum has taken a severe turn on how it captures the Assassination that day. I never was real sure if Gary Mack ever sided with Oswald being the lone killer of JFK , but it seemed that Mack always gave a possible " it could have happened that way " when a scenario would come around for different ways that the President could have been shot , but he seemed to still not buy into the fact that someone other than Oswald could have shot JFK. Dr. Wecht said that Gary Mack " used to be one of us ", but turned out to be a Benedict Arnold. I am a huge fan of Dr. Cyril Wecht and as he explains what he feels happened in Dallas and especially Bethesda , his logic and expertise speaks volumes about the JFK Case.


                You Tube--------- Dr. Cyril Wecht-JFK Lancer Conference ( 11-19-2016 ) 1:11:44 in length

To get this thread back on track, here's a few more comments on Mack.

People go where the money is.  Mack originally said that he saw among the silver nitrate blobs of one of the photos taken as Kennedy was murdered what appeared to him to be a man in a policeman's uniform aiming a gun.

Months or years later, down on his luck, Mack's offered the job as spokesman of the SFM. He suddenly does an about face and becomes the mouth piece of the official story, namely, that Oswald acted alone. Now, I'm not saying Mack was not a nice guy - perhaps he was. But I do find it dubious that he'd get up in front of a camera and act all official while Discovery channel was producing their highly fake shows.

I'll say it as nicely as I can - I find it highly underhanded for someone to do this.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 25, 2018, 12:34:09 AM
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Sure and so can panels looking at carefully curated and selected autopsy materials.





The autopsy photos show no exit hole on the back of Kennedy's head.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/a828j7ufv/JFKBOH.gif)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 25, 2018, 12:43:19 AM
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The autopsy photos show no exit hole on the back of Kennedy's head.

That's not an autopsy photo, it's a fake "Mytton"-morph.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 25, 2018, 12:59:15 AM
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That's not an autopsy photo, it's a fake "Mytton"-morph.




It's actually two autopsy photos, try again!



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Brown on July 25, 2018, 08:53:54 AM
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To get this thread back on track, here's a few more comments on Mack.

People go where the money is.  Mack originally said that he saw among the silver nitrate blobs of one of the photos taken as Kennedy was murdered what appeared to him to be a man in a policeman's uniform aiming a gun.

Months or years later, down on his luck, Mack's offered the job as spokesman of the SFM. He suddenly does an about face and becomes the mouth piece of the official story, namely, that Oswald acted alone. Now, I'm not saying Mack was not a nice guy - perhaps he was. But I do find it dubious that he'd get up in front of a camera and act all official while Discovery channel was producing their highly fake shows.

I'll say it as nicely as I can - I find it highly underhanded for someone to do this.

You still don't have a clue what you're talking about.  Stop embarrassing yourself.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mitch Todd on July 26, 2018, 06:08:03 AM
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          Your pledging allegiance to the Manchester BOOK and its' 2nd hand information is up to you. My thought is that Tom Robinson would know the elapsed time between his eating dinner while watching the JFK Casket being unloaded from AF1, Suddenly Racing to Bethesda, walking into the morgue, and viewing Humes taking a bone saw to the head of the POTUS. Being Suddenly exposed to Events of this magnitude have a way of sticking with Everyday Joes.

Again, and I repeat myself, look at the other post [now posts] I wrote.

We know from what Robinson has told the ARRB and and HSCA investigators, both directly and indirectly, that his job was the cosmetic part.
Also, Robinson confirms Manchester [to the ARRB], stating that he rode in with Hagen. Hagen [in his ARRB testimony] agrees with Manchester that he didn't show up until late. It's not just Manchester.

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Chris Scally on July 26, 2018, 10:00:20 AM
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You still don't have a clue what you're talking about.  Stop embarrassing yourself.

Well said, Bill. Amen to that !
 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Duncan MacRae on July 26, 2018, 10:29:44 AM
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He suddenly does an about face and becomes the mouth piece of the official story, namely, that Oswald acted alone.

(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/angry/pulling-hair-smiley-emoticon.gif)

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Capasse on July 27, 2018, 02:48:19 AM
 Thumb1: Thanx-Rob for posting those "Posners' Follies"
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mike Orr on July 27, 2018, 03:29:06 AM
The Parkland Staff figured out if the story was not what the Warren Commission said it was , then there was a good chance that those going against the WC could end up dead like JFK. I think once "They" assassinated Kennedy , then it was open season on those who were considered " Boat Rockers " and of course what goes with that as being one who was going to "Buck" the system like JFK , MLK , Bobby Kennedy and Malcolm X . In other words if you went against the Establishment , They will cut off your oxygen supply. JFK Jr. fell under that same canopy when he was said to have considered running for public office . I think " W " Bush felt threatened at the thought of JFK Jr. running for President . To think that LHO would be the reason for our Country to be turned upside down is just beyond belief .
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 03:48:19 AM
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These do not support your point since their authenticity is in doubt. The witnesses all said the BACK of JFK's head was blown out on November 22, 1963. Live with it.



Quote
These do not support your point since their authenticity is in doubt.

Huh? The Zapruder film, the X Rays and the Autopsy photos have all been repeatedly examined as authentic, the eyewitnesses are only confirming the physical evidence.

Quote
The witnesses all said the BACK of JFK's head was blown out on November 22, 1963. Live with it.

What a Bummer, your eyewitnesses are not at all consistent. Ouch!

(https://s15.postimg.cc/vdypaxcgb/Eyewitness_inconsistencies.gif)

Whereas my eyewitnesses all are extremely consistent and show exactly what the physical evidence shows.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/pacjd0haj/alotofevidence2a.jpg)



JohnM



Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 03:57:21 AM
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Curry wasn't a witness? What? He saw JFK up close. What does it take to be witness to you? Not to see anything on November 22, 1963, and to live in Australia?


Quote
Curry wasn't a witness?

No, we were talking about what eyewitnesses actually saw it happen, not the indecipherable bloody mess that arrived at Parkland.

Clint Hill saw Kennedy a few seconds later and would have had the best chance for evaluation.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/aob1mbnnf/Clintshowem.gif)

Then there are the Dealey Plaza eyewitnesses who simply described what they saw and what they saw was precisely what we see in the Zapruder Film/Autopsy photos/X rays.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/ied8dxinf/Dealey_Plaza_Eyewitnesses2_zpsc1d78c8b.gif)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 04:48:50 AM
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I have been watching Nigel Turner's "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" series again recently and this shows perfectly that any LNer who claims that Gary Mack never endorsed a conspiracy regarding the JFK assassination is either ignorant or here to mislead.

Gary Mack was listed as a "series consultant" for the 1988 multi-part version. In his filmed interviews there is NO doubt that he was for the idea of conspiracy. He mentions detailed things that show a conspiracy took place.

Something other than evidence changed his mind.



This is sick, Gary isn't here to defend himself yet you still make these ridiculous accusations.

There is nothing wrong with being a conspiracy theorist and then after learning the real evidence siding with the truth that Oswald did it.

Many intelligent LNers were once CTs but after years of trusting the LIES that Caprio and his 10aday team have shoved down our throats, some of us actually decided to do our own research and by utilizing our own unbiased critical thinking skills we all came to the same inescapable logical conclusion that Oswald was a double murdering dirtbag!

Btw thankfully with the advent of the Internet, the ease to access the evidence makes Caprio's job of misdirection and deceit a lot harder!



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 05:04:18 AM
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In interviews with author Gerald Posner, the Parkland doctors were nearly unanimous in their agreement with the autopsy findings at Bethesda Naval Hospital.

Dr. Carrico points out, "We did [originally] say there was a parietal-occipital wound . . . and I think we were mistaken. The reason I say that is that the President was lying on his back and shoulders, and you could see the hole, with scalp and brain tissue hanging back down his head, and it covered most of the occipital [rear] portion of his head. We saw a large hole on the right side of his head. I don't believe we saw any occipital bone. It was not there. It was parietal bone. And if we said otherwise, we were mistaken."

Dr. Adolph Giesecke agrees. "I guess I have to say I was wrong in my Warren Commission testimony on the wound and in some of my pronouncements since then. I just never got that good of a look at it. . . . The truth is there was a massive head wound, with brain tissue and blood around it. And with that type of wound you could not get accurate information unless you feel around inside the hole and look into it in detail, and I certainly didn't do that, nor did I see anyone else do that."

Dr. Paul Peters, portrayed in JFK by I. D. Brickman (see photo above), also concedes his initial impression was inaccurate: ". . . I now believe the head wound is more forward than I first placed it. More to the side than the rear." Dr. Pepper Jenkins states, "The autopsy photo, with the rear of the head intact and a protrusion in the parietal [side] region, is the way I remember it. I never did say occipital."

"I don't think any of us got a good look at the head wound," says Dr. Malcolm Perry. "I did not look at it that closely. . . . But like everyone else, I saw it back there. It was in the occipital/parietal area. The occipital and parietal bone join each other, so we are only talking a centimeter or so in difference. And you must remember the President had a lot of hair, and it was bloody and matted, and it was difficult to tell where the wound started or finished."

Dr. Charles Baxter concurs: "He had such a bushy head of hair, and blood and all in it, you couldn't tell what was the wound versus dried blood or dangling tissue. I have been misquoted enough on this, some saying I claimed the whole back of his head was blown away. That's just wrong. I never even saw the back of his head. The wound was on the right side, not the back."

Dr. Ronald Jones confirms his colleagues' observations, adding he did not even realize for several minutes that there was a head wound. He finally noticed there was a "large side wound, with blood and tissue that extended toward the rear, from what you could tell of the mess that was there."

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100parkland.html





Quote
The truth is there was a massive head wound, with brain tissue and blood around it. And with that type of wound you could not get accurate information unless you feel around inside the hole and look into it in detail, and I certainly didn't do that, nor did I see anyone else do that.

This is exactly what the laymen CTs are told again and again, the autopsy is where they actually wash, examine and physically manipulate the head wound whereas in emergency all they saw was a smashed head with a cracked skull, covered in blood and gore which nobody touched.



JohnM


Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Walt Cakebread on July 27, 2018, 01:19:37 PM
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This is sick, Gary isn't here to defend himself yet you still make these ridiculous accusations.

There is nothing wrong with being a conspiracy theorist and then after learning the real evidence siding with the truth that Oswald did it.

Many intelligent LNers were once CTs but after years of trusting the LIES that Caprio and his 10aday team have shoved down our throats, some of us actually decided to do our own research and by utilizing our own unbiased critical thinking skills we all came to the same inescapable logical conclusion that Oswald was a double murdering dirtbag!

Btw thankfully with the advent of the Internet, the ease to access the evidence makes Caprio's job of misdirection and deceit a lot harder!



JohnM

This is sick, Gary isn't here to defend himself yet you still make these ridiculous accusations.

This is sick, Lee isn't here to defend himself yet you still make these ridiculous accusations.

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Richard Rubio on July 27, 2018, 02:49:35 PM
How adolescent. Really, nah, nah, nah.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 05:44:40 PM
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Whereas my eyewitnesses all are extremely consistent and show exactly what the physical evidence shows.

...he says as he posts a pastiche of photos of people pointing to different locations on their heads.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 05:46:34 PM
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Clint Hill saw Kennedy a few seconds later and would have had the best chance for evaluation.

Ok.

Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 05:48:55 PM
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There is nothing wrong with being a conspiracy theorist and then after learning the real evidence siding with the truth that Oswald did it.

Calling something "the truth" doesn't actually make it true.

Quote
Many intelligent LNers were once CTs but after years of trusting the LIES that Caprio and his 10aday team have shoved down our throats, some of us actually decided to do our own research and by utilizing our own unbiased critical thinking skills we all came to the same inescapable logical conclusion that Oswald was a double murdering dirtbag!

Give me a break.  You lie about the evidence constantly.  Hypocrite.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 05:58:09 PM
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This is exactly what the laymen CTs are told again and again, the autopsy is where they actually wash, examine and physically manipulate the head wound whereas in emergency all they saw was a smashed head with a cracked skull, covered in blood and gore which nobody touched.

Demonstrably false.

Excerpt of letter from nurse Diana Bowron:

When we prepared the body for the coffin we washed the face and closed the eyes; there was no damage to the face, there was no flap of scalp on the right, neither was there a laceration pointing toward the right eyebrow from the scalp.

When we were preparing the body for the coffin we rolled it over in order to remove the bloodstained sheet from underneath and to wipe away the blood from the back of the body. I saw another entry wound in the upper back (the other entry wound being in the front of the throat). With reference to the photograph The Back (F5) I only saw one wound, and not the number of wounds in the photograph; I do not think that the photo (F5) is of the President. I have marked for you on the photostat that you sent me where I think the entry wound was.

I first saw the large wound in the back of the head in the car; when we were preparing the body for the coffin I had the opportunity to examine it more closely. It was about 5ins in diameter, there was no flap of skin covering it, just a fraction of skin along part of the edges of bone, there was however some hair hanging down from the top of the head which was caked with blood, and most of the brain was missing. The wound was so large I could almost put my whole fist inside.

When we prepared the body I washed as much blood as I could from the hair; while doing this I did not see any other wound either in the temples or in other parts of the head.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 08:39:12 PM
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Demonstrably false.

Excerpt of letter from nurse Diana Bowron:

When we prepared the body for the coffin we washed the face and closed the eyes; there was no damage to the face, there was no flap of scalp on the right, neither was there a laceration pointing toward the right eyebrow from the scalp.

When we were preparing the body for the coffin we rolled it over in order to remove the bloodstained sheet from underneath and to wipe away the blood from the back of the body. I saw another entry wound in the upper back (the other entry wound being in the front of the throat). With reference to the photograph The Back (F5) I only saw one wound, and not the number of wounds in the photograph; I do not think that the photo (F5) is of the President. I have marked for you on the photostat that you sent me where I think the entry wound was.

I first saw the large wound in the back of the head in the car; when we were preparing the body for the coffin I had the opportunity to examine it more closely. It was about 5ins in diameter, there was no flap of skin covering it, just a fraction of skin along part of the edges of bone, there was however some hair hanging down from the top of the head which was caked with blood, and most of the brain was missing. The wound was so large I could almost put my whole fist inside.

When we prepared the body I washed as much blood as I could from the hair; while doing this I did not see any other wound either in the temples or in other parts of the head.




 BS:

So you reckon that your "nurse" Bowran who only prepared the body for travelling performed this in emergency in front of all your inconsistent boh eyewitnesses, really?



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 08:47:08 PM
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Give me a break.  You lie about the evidence constantly.  Hypocrite.



No, it only happened 1 way and my evidence hasn't changed in over 50 years on the other hand you got big problems.


JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 09:09:36 PM
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BS:

So you reckon that your "nurse" Bowran who only prepared the body for travelling performed this in emergency in front of all your inconsistent boh eyewitnesses, really?

Well, well.  Look who's calling a witness a liar when it suits him!
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 09:11:48 PM
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No, it only happened 1 way and my evidence hasn't changed in over 50 years on the other hand you got big problems.

The evidence itself hasn't changed.  It's your summations of the evidence that are utter BS:

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 09:25:09 PM
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Well, well.  Look who's calling a witness a liar when it suits him!





It only happened one way.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/a828j7ufv/JFKBOH.gif)

Btw if I had nothing like you I would make a HUGE song and dance about my non-usage of the word "liar" but I'm above that.



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 09:36:48 PM
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Ok.

Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.



Instead of relying on your biased interpretation of what you side believes Hill was saying let's let Hill show us what he meant and what do you know here we see Hill describing precisely what is seen in the Zapruder/Autopsy photos/X Rays.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/aob1mbnnf/Clintshowem.gif)

Btw hiding the evidence by editing the above gif out your reply to my post is really sad.



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 09:37:02 PM
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It only happened one way.

In Mytton-land a contrived software-generated morph is somehow evidence of "what happened".

Quote
Btw if I had nothing like you I would make a HUGE song and dance about my non-usage of the word "liar" but I'm above that.

Of course you are.  Too bad you're not above lying.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 09:40:00 PM
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Instead of relying on your biased interpretation of what you side believes Hill was saying let's let Hill show us what he meant and what do you know here we see Hill describing precisely what is seen in the Zapruder/Autopsy photos/X Rays.

Here's where we insert a quote of Mytton or one of his buddies explaining how decades later recollections are inferior to earlier accounts.

It only happened one way:

Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 09:48:44 PM
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In Mytton-land a contrived software-generated morph is somehow evidence of "what happened".





No, as usual you don't know what you are looking at, it's showing a stereoscopic pair of Autopsy Photos.
The animation is just the icing on the cake and proves we have two perfectly depth mapped matched images.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/a828j7ufv/JFKBOH.gif)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 27, 2018, 10:04:24 PM
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It only happened one way.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/a828j7ufv/JFKBOH.gif)

Btw if I had nothing like you I would make a HUGE song and dance about my non-usage of the word "liar" but I'm above that.



JohnM

          The above is Blevins worthy. This is the company you are now keeping.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 10:05:10 PM
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          The above is Blevins worthy. This is the company you are now keeping.




You've already said this.



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 27, 2018, 10:25:37 PM
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You've already said this.



JohnM


        Yet you continue to discredit yourself. STOP posting this cartoon worthy garbage.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 10:30:51 PM
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        Yet you continue to discredit yourself. STOP posting this garbage.



Quote
Yet you continue to discredit yourself.

Says you!

Quote
STOP posting this garbage.

NO, I won't and the fact that I can smell your fear of this powerful evidence means I will NEVER STOP POSTING! Muhahaha!

(https://s15.postimg.cc/a828j7ufv/JFKBOH.gif)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 10:53:45 PM
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And lo and behold, Clint Hill testified to the BACK of JFK's head being blown out. This was CORROBORATED by Curry. You're sunk.




Talk about desperately seeking evidence, wasn't Clint Hill's SS part of your conspiracy? Oops!

Clint even describes the injury as he points to it as the right rear quadrant. Ffs stop pretending that you're some sort of  cheapass clairvoyant and just accept Hills visual description and have the pure and goodness of honesty wash over you.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/aob1mbnnf/Clintshowem.gif)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 27, 2018, 10:55:47 PM
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Says you!

NO, I won't and the fact that I can smell your fear of this powerful evidence means I will NEVER STOP POSTING! Muhahaha!

(https://s15.postimg.cc/a828j7ufv/JFKBOH.gif)



JohnM

        Just like Blevins , You are Now claiming this to be actual "Evidence".  When do you begin posting videos on You Tube?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 10:58:11 PM
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No, as usual you don't know what you are looking at, it's showing a stereoscopic pair of Autopsy Photos.

No, it's two photos with an animation constructed by software by inserting artificially generated intermediate images.

Quote
The animation is just the icing on the cake and proves we have two perfectly depth mapped matched images.

So you keep claiming.  But then you think yellow blobs can identify a specific rifle.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 10:59:47 PM
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        Just like Blevins , You are Now claiming this to be actual "Evidence".  When do you begin posting videos on You Tube?




Quote
Just like Blevins , You are Now claiming this to be actual "Evidence".

For a start I don't know who or what a "Blevins" is and the autopsy photos are and will always be evidence.

Quote
When do you begin posting videos on You Tube?

Try to keep up, I was posting videos on Youtube when you were still sucking on your mom's nipples.




JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 11:01:44 PM
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No, it's two photos...



Exactly it's two photos.



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 27, 2018, 11:04:45 PM
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For a start I don't know who or what a "Blevins" is and the autopsy photos are and will always be evidence.

Try to keep up, I was posting videos on Youtube when you were still sucking on your mom's nipples.




JohnM

             Seriously. Are you feeling OK? Claiming stuff you have thrown together as "evidence" + bringing parts of the anatomy into this discussion signals something is seriously wrong with You.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 11:06:44 PM
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Both Hill and Curry saw JFK up close and they both said that the BACK of his head was blown OUT. Live with it.



Stop denying the evidence, Hill's visual description can't be manipulated by cheating the written word and couldn't be more clear!

(https://s15.postimg.cc/aob1mbnnf/Clintshowem.gif)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 11:08:04 PM
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             Seriously. Are you feeling OK? Claiming stuff you have thrown together as "evidence" + bringing parts of the anatomy into this discussion signals something is seriously wrong with You.





That's enough, you haven't refuted Jack, go and bore someone else.



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 27, 2018, 11:19:02 PM
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That's enough, you haven't refuted Jack, go and bore someone else.



JohnM

            Referring to that which you are Creating as "Evidence", =  Misleading and Wrong. STOP with your  BS:
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 11:23:14 PM
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            Referring to that which you are Creating as "Evidence", =  Misleading and Wrong. STOP with your  BS:




Just because you asked so politely here's another.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/mhm8034ez/JFKAutopsy_Morphsmallermoreframes.gif)



JohnM

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 11:23:34 PM
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Clint even describes the injury as he points to it as the right rear quadrant.

How the hell is that spot the "upper right rear quadrant"?

Anyway, because "Mytton" has a habit of dishonest out of context graphics, I dug up the actual video clip.


If you watch the whole thing, you realize that Hill isn't just describing things that he saw.  He's talking about things he was told.  Like the supposed neck shot that came out the throat, which he also points to (even though he wouldn't have seen that) and even describes a shot that he didn't hear but was told about.

Interesting also that he also says that JFK's head was on Jackie's lap and that she was grabbing at brain/head material on the trunk when she was out there.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 11:31:55 PM
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How the hell is that spot the "upper right rear quadrant"?

Anyway, because "Mytton" had a habit of dishonest out of context graphics, I dug up the actual video clip.


If you watch the whole thing, you realize that Hill isn't just describing things that he saw. 




Quote
How the hell is that spot the "upper right rear quadrant"?

Hill who was actually there said "upper right rear quadrant" and pointed to the spot, sorry about that.

Quote
Anyway, because "Mytton" had a habit of dishonest out of context graphics, I dug up the actual video clip.

WOW, what's dishonest about Clints own words and where he points?

Quote
If you watch the whole thing, you realize that Hill isn't just describing things that he saw.

Hahahahahahahaha, so Hill wasn't the one who jumped up on the Limo and looked straight down on Kennedy? WTF!



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 11:35:34 PM
It's always amusing to see "Mytton" get unhinged when one of his deceptions is exposed.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 27, 2018, 11:39:22 PM
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It's always amusing to see "Mytton" get unhinged when one of his deceptions is exposed.




Sorry "Iacoletti" for taking you out of your comfort zone, but how is presenting what Clint Hill saw and described got anything to do with me?



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 11:51:24 PM
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Sorry "Iacoletti" for taking you out of your comfort zone, but how is presenting what Clint Hill saw and described got anything to do with me?

Where in this video does Clint Hill say that he saw this alleged "upper right rear quadrant" explosion that was not actually in the rear at all?  Did he see the shot come out the throat too?  And why does this trump what he said in 1964?  Did he suffer from the same mass hallucination that all the Parkland staff had?

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 27, 2018, 11:54:29 PM
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Geez Crapass, that takes a lot of Balls, you the Man!

Unhinged, I tell ya.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 28, 2018, 12:17:04 AM
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Unhinged, I tell ya.



Hilarious, so now we can add "wannabe psychoanalyst" to your long list of credentials.



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 28, 2018, 03:20:44 AM
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You can post this deceptive still frame a million times, but it won't alter Hill's testimony and Curry's corroboration. You're sunk. Give up.
Take a deep breath and stay calm, your world is crumbling around you and you simply can't handle it.

The right rear/back side in this neutral image is exactly where Clint is pointing and this spot is pretty much corroborated by the genuine Zapruder Film, the Autopsy photos and the X Rays.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/t6xctqzob/right_back_side.jpg)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/th9gqmlm3/clinthillaboveear.jpg)

The impossible to fake stereoscopic autopsy photos absolutely destroy you.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/a828j7ufv/JFKBOH.gif)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/mhm8034ez/JFKAutopsy_Morphsmallermoreframes.gif)

Sure believe in your voodoo nonsense but I'll go with science everytime, c ya!

JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: James Hess on July 28, 2018, 11:13:58 AM
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It's always amusing to see "Mytton" get unhinged when one of his deceptions is exposed.
What's dishonest about Clints own words and where he points?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 28, 2018, 03:39:56 PM
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Take a deep breath and stay calm, your world is crumbling around you and you simply can't handle it.

The right rear/back side in this neutral image is exactly where Clint is pointing and this spot is pretty much corroborated by the genuine Zapruder Film, the Autopsy photos and the X Rays.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/t6xctqzob/right_back_side.jpg)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/th9gqmlm3/clinthillaboveear.jpg)

The impossible to fake stereoscopic autopsy photos absolutely destroy you.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/a828j7ufv/JFKBOH.gif)

(https://s15.postimg.cc/mhm8034ez/JFKAutopsy_Morphsmallermoreframes.gif)

Sure believe in your voodoo nonsense but I'll go with science everytime, c ya!



JohnM

     When are you going to post The 3 Stooges short that goes with those looney JFK Autopsy Cartoons you continue constructing. Friz Freleng you ain't.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Jerry Freeman on July 29, 2018, 06:34:49 PM
Page after page of the same pictures ::)
Certainly a lot of bandwidth here being sucked up by this meaningless drivel.
What does it all have to do with Gary Mack?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 30, 2018, 08:00:16 PM
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Hilarious, so now we can add "wannabe psychoanalyst" to your long list of credentials.

When did I ever claim to have a long list of credentials?  Can you tell the truth about anything?  It doesn't take any credentials to observe you becoming unhinged.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 30, 2018, 08:04:15 PM
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(https://s15.postimg.cc/t6xctqzob/right_back_side.jpg)

Too bad the little diagram you found doesn't have a label for "upper right rear quadrant".

It's also too bad that there is no hole in your contrived morph movie in the spot where Clint Hill is pointing either.  Doh!
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Walt Cakebread on August 01, 2018, 12:44:20 PM
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In 1964, Hill testified using 'rear portion' terminology to a great extent.

For instance, he described the defect as being in the 'rear portion' of the head. He described the blood and brain matter as being in the 'rear portion' of the limo. Since the blood and brain matter practically drenched the back seat (and jump seats according to Nellie), one can reasonably expect that Hill meant back half of the car, along with the back half of the head.

Additionally, SA Hill uses this 'rear portion' terminology to describe the protective/defensive positions quickly taken by several agents during brief stoppage requested by Kennedy (to shake hands with a few supporters).

 Since the blood and brain matter practically drenched the back seat (and jump seats according to Nellie), one can reasonably expect that Hill meant back half of the car, along with the back half of the head.

There are photos of the car's interior  .....None of them show the back seat "practically drenched" in blood and brain matter.