JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Mike Orr on June 21, 2018, 07:22:13 PM

Title: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mike Orr on June 21, 2018, 07:22:13 PM
While listening to a very good segment by Dr. Cyril Wecht , Cyril became quite disturbed when the mention of Gary Mack came into the discussion about Oswald being named as the Lone Nut assassin in the JFK case. It was also mentioned the 6th Floor Museum has taken a severe turn on how it captures the Assassination that day. I never was real sure if Gary Mack ever sided with Oswald being the lone killer of JFK , but it seemed that Mack always gave a possible " it could have happened that way " when a scenario would come around for different ways that the President could have been shot , but he seemed to still not buy into the fact that someone other than Oswald could have shot JFK. Dr. Wecht said that Gary Mack " used to be one of us ", but turned out to be a Benedict Arnold. I am a huge fan of Dr. Cyril Wecht and as he explains what he feels happened in Dallas and especially Bethesda , his logic and expertise speaks volumes about the JFK Case.


                You Tube--------- Dr. Cyril Wecht-JFK Lancer Conference ( 11-19-2016 ) 1:11:44 in length
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Richard Smith on June 21, 2018, 07:32:50 PM
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While listening to a very good segment by Dr. Cyril Wecht , Cyril became quite disturbed when the mention of Gary Mack came into the discussion about Oswald being named as the Lone Nut assassin in the JFK case. It was also mentioned the 6th Floor Museum has taken a severe turn on how it captures the Assassination that day. I never was real sure if Gary Mack ever sided with Oswald being the lone killer of JFK , but it seemed that Mack always gave a possible " it could have happened that way " when a scenario would come around for different ways that the President could have been shot , but he seemed to still not buy into the fact that someone other than Oswald could have shot JFK. Dr. Wecht said that Gary Mack " used to be one of us ", but turned out to be a Benedict Arnold. I am a huge fan of Dr. Cyril Wecht and as he explains what he feels happened in Dallas and especially Bethesda , his logic and expertise speaks volumes about the JFK Case.


                You Tube--------- Dr. Cyril Wecht-JFK Lancer Conference ( 11-19-2016 ) 1:11:44 in length

Mack was fair minded, knowledegable, and relied upon the evidence.  My interpretation of his view is that he left open the possibility of a conspiracy (primarily because you can't disprove the negative with 100% certainty) but that there was no credible evidence to support it. 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Rob Caprio on June 21, 2018, 09:26:07 PM
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Mack was fair minded, knowledegable, and relied upon the evidence.  My interpretation of his view is that he left open the possibility of a conspiracy (primarily because you can't disprove the negative with 100% certainty) but that there was no credible evidence to support it.

There is NO credible evidence supporting the LHO did it alone theory, and yet, you support it. Why?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mark Valenti on June 21, 2018, 10:53:47 PM
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Mack was fair minded, knowledegable, and relied upon the evidence.  My interpretation of his view is that he left open the possibility of a conspiracy (primarily because you can't disprove the negative with 100% certainty) but that there was no credible evidence to support it.

This is correct. Gary was brutalized in life by online nerds and shamefully insulted within 24 hours of his death by demented losers. They could never understand how a person could possibly arrive at a different conclusion than they did. It had to be a conspiracy, he must have been paid off, he was always a spy, etc. When they change or modify their own opinions about the details, that's understandable human nature. When Gary did it, that was treason.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Tony Fratini on June 22, 2018, 05:17:05 AM
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While listening to a very good segment by Dr. Cyril Wecht , Cyril became quite disturbed when the mention of Gary Mack came into the discussion about Oswald being named as the Lone Nut assassin in the JFK case. It was also mentioned the 6th Floor Museum has taken a severe turn on how it captures the Assassination that day. I never was real sure if Gary Mack ever sided with Oswald being the lone killer of JFK , but it seemed that Mack always gave a possible " it could have happened that way " when a scenario would come around for different ways that the President could have been shot , but he seemed to still not buy into the fact that someone other than Oswald could have shot JFK. Dr. Wecht said that Gary Mack " used to be one of us ", but turned out to be a Benedict Arnold. I am a huge fan of Dr. Cyril Wecht and as he explains what he feels happened in Dallas and especially Bethesda , his logic and expertise speaks volumes about the JFK Case.


                You Tube--------- Dr. Cyril Wecht-JFK Lancer Conference ( 11-19-2016 ) 1:11:44 in length

Have you read this? Have a look who the author was, the date and what he wrote about.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/M%20Disk/Mack%20Gary%20Cover-up/Item%2023.pdf

He was miles ahead of the curve.

"So how did the bag get from the TSBD to Irving and
back again? The evidence indicates it never left the
building and wasn't even constructed until after the
assassination.
"

I agree with Gary.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Tom Sorensen on June 22, 2018, 10:18:55 AM
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Have you read this? Have a look who the author was, the date and what he wrote about.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/M%20Disk/Mack%20Gary%20Cover-up/Item%2023.pdf

He was miles ahead of the curve.

"So how did the bag get from the TSBD to Irving and
back again? The evidence indicates it never left the
building and wasn't even constructed until after the
assassination.
"

I agree with Gary.

Howard will easily explain this when he returns...
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Chris Scally on June 22, 2018, 10:22:50 AM
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This is correct. Gary was brutalized in life by online nerds and shamefully insulted within 24 hours of his death by demented losers. They could never understand how a person could possibly arrive at a different conclusion than they did. It had to be a conspiracy, he must have been paid off, he was always a spy, etc. When they change or modify their own opinions about the details, that's understandable human nature. When Gary did it, that was treason.

Mark (and Richard):

I totally agree with your comments, and thank you for your kind remarks about Gary. Gary was a good friend, whom I'd known for many, many years, and a man of absolute integrity. He told you what he thought, and it was up to you as to whether you agreed with him or not. He and I didn't always agree, but when that happened, we could agree to differ and move on, like grown-up, mature adults. The manner in which he was vilified by people - many of whom had never met him, spoken to him, or even corresponded with him - in the the immediate aftermath of his untimely passing was among the most disgusting things I'd ever witnessed, and besmirched much of the so-called "research community" for ever.

RIP Gary.
 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Tony Fratini on June 22, 2018, 10:33:59 AM
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Howard will easily explain this when he returns...

 ;D

I commenced reading the WC volumes in 1985, however Gary already had the foresight that the paper bag was constructed post assassination. That's staggering. If he made the connection about what Studebaker and Day were doing in the wrapping room, l am confident  he would of named the likely people who constructed it.

I can't wait for Howards explanation  :'(
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Colin Crow on June 22, 2018, 10:55:50 AM
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Mark (and Richard):

I totally agree with your comments, and thank you for your kind remarks about Gary. Gary was a good friend, whom I'd known for many, many years, and a man of absolute integrity. He told you what he thought, and it was up to you as to whether you agreed with him or not. He and I didn't always agree, but when that happened, we could agree to differ and move on, like grown-up, mature adults. The manner in which he was vilified by people - many of whom had never met him, spoken to him, or even corresponded with him - in the the immediate aftermath of his untimely passing was among the most disgusting things I'd ever witnessed, and besmirched much of the so-called "research community" for ever.

RIP Gary.

Well said Chris. And Richard and Mark.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 11, 2018, 10:49:42 PM
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Mark (and Richard):

I totally agree with your comments, and thank you for your kind remarks about Gary. Gary was a good friend, whom I'd known for many, many years, and a man of absolute integrity. He told you what he thought, and it was up to you as to whether you agreed with him or not. He and I didn't always agree, but when that happened, we could agree to differ and move on, like grown-up, mature adults. The manner in which he was vilified by people - many of whom had never met him, spoken to him, or even corresponded with him - in the the immediate aftermath of his untimely passing was among the most disgusting things I'd ever witnessed, and besmirched much of the so-called "research community" for ever.

RIP Gary.

...and when Mark Lane died we saw the exact same thing happen from the other side.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Walton on July 12, 2018, 03:16:24 AM
Gary Mack went from a conspiracy theorist (and making no money) to a lone nut advocate (and getting a full-time job to boot). How anyone can call that fair-minded is beyond me.

There are many good articles about Mack on DiEugenio's site. There's one that critiqued one of those fake assassination shows on Discovery starring Mack.  With a straight face, shooting and editing of the program told obvious lies. Look it up if you don't believe me.

But here's one of my favorite articles on this subject:

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/gary-mack-strikes-again

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mitch Todd on July 12, 2018, 05:00:34 AM
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Gary Mack went from a conspiracy theorist (and making no money) to a lone nut advocate (and getting a full-time job to boot). How anyone can call that fair-minded is beyond me.

There are many good articles about Mack on DiEugenio's site. There's one that critiqued one of those fake assassination shows on Discovery starring Mack.  With a straight face, shooting and editing of the program told obvious lies. Look it up if you don't believe me.

But here's one of my favorite articles on this subject:

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/gary-mack-strikes-again


It says a lot about Jim DiEugenio that, in all of that article, there is only one footnote, and that's to a book he wrote himself.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 12, 2018, 05:37:20 AM
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Gary Mack went from a conspiracy theorist (and making no money) to a lone nut advocate (and getting a full-time job to boot). How anyone can call that fair-minded is beyond me.

There are many good articles about Mack on DiEugenio's site. There's one that critiqued one of those fake assassination shows on Discovery starring Mack.  With a straight face, shooting and editing of the program told obvious lies. Look it up if you don't believe me.

But here's one of my favorite articles on this subject:

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/gary-mack-strikes-again


Quote
How anyone can call that fair-minded is beyond me.

When I started I was a conspiracy theorist but as time went on and I learnt the evidence I realized that my initial conclusion which was based on incomplete information(conspiracy books) needed a re-evaluation.
For instance one example of my conspiracy belief was the "back and to the left" but after some research I found a bullet lacks the mass to drive anyone more than an inch or two and upon close examination of the Zapruder film @312-313 Kennedy and all the resulting matter is pushed forward. The first eyewitnesses interviewed on TV, the Newmans and Zapruder all describe what we see in the Zapruder film and finally after studying the genuine stereoscopic Autopsy photos the injuries to Kennedy's head reinforce a shot from behind.



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 12, 2018, 03:15:11 PM
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Mack was fair minded, knowledegable, and relied upon the evidence.  My interpretation of his view is that he left open the possibility of a conspiracy (primarily because you can't disprove the negative with 100% certainty) but that there was no credible evidence to support it.

   Is your, "fair minded, Knowledgeable, and Relied upon the Evidence" appraisal Before or After his pushing of the Badgeman & his mis ID of Mumford/McKinnon?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Rob Caprio on July 12, 2018, 03:27:07 PM
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...and when Mark Lane died we saw the exact same thing happen from the other side.

Ditto Jim Marrs, Fletcher Prouty and Jim Garrison.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Rob Caprio on July 12, 2018, 03:36:17 PM
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Gary Mack went from a conspiracy theorist (and making no money) to a lone nut advocate (and getting a full-time job to boot). How anyone can call that fair-minded is beyond me.

There are many good articles about Mack on DiEugenio's site. There's one that critiqued one of those fake assassination shows on Discovery starring Mack.  With a straight face, shooting and editing of the program told obvious lies. Look it up if you don't believe me.

But here's one of my favorite articles on this subject:

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/gary-mack-strikes-again

Great points. For me it wasn't personal as Gary seemed to be a nice guy. It was about the evidence. The OFFICIAL evidence has never changed and it does NOT support the WC's conclusion in the least so what made him change his point of view so dramatically?

I asked him a number of times and like all people who go from a CT point of view to a LN point of view he couldn't answer. Not once did he say that it was this piece of evidence or that piece of evidence that changed my outlook.

His point of view change was not based on the evidence. That is all.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Capasse on July 12, 2018, 03:38:35 PM
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Ditto Jim Marrs, Fletcher Prouty and Jim Garrison.

And the only one I had heard of a "million dollar" deal was Vince Bugliosi
...I think he was paid by the word
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 12, 2018, 03:39:39 PM
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When I started I was a conspiracy theorist but as time went on and I learnt the evidence I realized that my initial conclusion which was based on incomplete information(conspiracy books) needed a re-evaluation.
For instance one example of my conspiracy belief was the "back and to the left" but after some research I found a bullet lacks the mass to drive anyone more than an inch or two and upon close examination of the Zapruder film @312-313 Kennedy and all the resulting matter is pushed forward. The first eyewitnesses interviewed on TV, the Newmans and Zapruder all describe what we see in the Zapruder film and finally after studying the genuine stereoscopic Autopsy photos the injuries to Kennedy's head reinforce a shot from behind.



JohnM

          The validity of the stolen autopsy photos currently displayed in the public arena can hardly be described as "Genuine".  "Kinkos" Groden continues cranking them out on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on July 12, 2018, 03:54:17 PM
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Gary Mack went from a conspiracy theorist (and making no money) to a lone nut advocate (and getting a full-time job to boot). How anyone can call that fair-minded is beyond me.

There are many good articles about Mack on DiEugenio's site. There's one that critiqued one of those fake assassination shows on Discovery starring Mack.  With a straight face, shooting and editing of the program told obvious lies. Look it up if you don't believe me.

But here's one of my favorite articles on this subject:

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/gary-mack-strikes-again

Mack wasn't a lone nut advocate; he believed up to his death that Oswald did shoot JFK but that he had help. In other words, Mack believed in a conspiracy albeit with a small or lower case "c".


Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Rob Caprio on July 12, 2018, 04:00:40 PM
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When I started I was a conspiracy theorist but as time went on and I learnt the evidence I realized that my initial conclusion which was based on incomplete information(conspiracy books) needed a re-evaluation.
For instance one example of my conspiracy belief was the "back and to the left" but after some research I found a bullet lacks the mass to drive anyone more than an inch or two and upon close examination of the Zapruder film @312-313 Kennedy and all the resulting matter is pushed forward. The first eyewitnesses interviewed on TV, the Newmans and Zapruder all describe what we see in the Zapruder film and finally after studying the genuine stereoscopic Autopsy photos the injuries to Kennedy's head reinforce a shot from behind.



JohnM

Then cite the evidence that changed your mind. I have asked this of you before and you have never done it.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Rob Caprio on July 12, 2018, 04:03:28 PM
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And the only one I had heard of a "million dollar" deal was Vince Bugliosi
...I think he was paid by the word

It took forever to write too.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Brown on July 12, 2018, 06:07:55 PM
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Mark (and Richard):

I totally agree with your comments, and thank you for your kind remarks about Gary. Gary was a good friend, whom I'd known for many, many years, and a man of absolute integrity. He told you what he thought, and it was up to you as to whether you agreed with him or not. He and I didn't always agree, but when that happened, we could agree to differ and move on, like grown-up, mature adults. The manner in which he was vilified by people - many of whom had never met him, spoken to him, or even corresponded with him - in the the immediate aftermath of his untimely passing was among the most disgusting things I'd ever witnessed, and besmirched much of the so-called "research community" for ever.

RIP Gary.

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...and when Mark Lane died we saw the exact same thing happen from the other side.

No, you certainly did not.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Brown on July 12, 2018, 06:17:07 PM
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Gary Mack went from a conspiracy theorist (and making no money) to a lone nut advocate (and getting a full-time job to boot).

I always laugh when I see another make a comment on a subject which they very obviously have no idea about the subject they're addressing.

Gary Mack certainly was not a "lone nut advocate".

Perhaps you should educate yourself a little better on the subject before any further comments on it.  Just a thought.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 12, 2018, 06:33:45 PM
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When I started I was a conspiracy theorist but as time went on and I learnt the evidence I realized that my initial conclusion which was based on incomplete information(conspiracy books) needed a re-evaluation.
For instance one example of my conspiracy belief was the "back and to the left" but after some research I found a bullet lacks the mass to drive anyone more than an inch or two and upon close examination of the Zapruder film @312-313 Kennedy and all the resulting matter is pushed forward. The first eyewitnesses interviewed on TV, the Newmans and Zapruder all describe what we see in the Zapruder film and finally after studying the genuine stereoscopic Autopsy photos the injuries to Kennedy's head reinforce a shot from behind.

JohnM

The single most powerful thing that got me really interested in the assassination was when I found out that JBC was seated somewhat lower and to the left of Kennedy.

A huge 'eureka' moment for me.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 12, 2018, 11:17:40 PM
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No, you certainly did not.

You obviously didn't read the threads on this very forum when Lane died.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 12, 2018, 11:19:02 PM
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The single most powerful thing that got me really interested in the assassination was when I found out that JBC was seated somewhat lower and to the left of Kennedy.

Not nearly as much as Dale Myers pretended.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 13, 2018, 01:35:11 AM
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The single most powerful thing that got me really interested in the assassination was when I found out that JBC was seated somewhat lower and to the left of Kennedy.

A huge 'eureka' moment for me.

    "Somewhat lower and to the left of Kennedy" takes in a Lot of territory. It is this type of crack detective work that also leads to a bullet entering the Back of JFK at a downward angle and then exiting his throat. Total BS.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 13, 2018, 01:41:41 AM
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You obviously didn't read the threads on this very forum when Lane died.




Instead of these continual vague opinionated responses, how about you provide some actual evidence?



JohnM

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Walton on July 13, 2018, 02:21:20 AM
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And the only one I had heard of a "million dollar" deal was Vince Bugliosi
...I think he was paid by the word

Don't forget Posner. He was paid by how many sentences he plagiarized. So he could then have his plastic surgery.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Rob Caprio on July 13, 2018, 03:09:50 AM
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Instead of these continual vague opinionated responses, how about you provide some actual evidence?



JohnM

Where's your evidence? I want to see what made you convert from a CT position to a LN position.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 13, 2018, 03:36:49 AM
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Where's your evidence? I want to see what made you convert from a CT position to a LN position.




I'm not sure what you're driving at?
In my post you originally responded to, the evidence I presented of a plethora of scientific facts proved that there was no frontal shooter, besides why put a shooter out the front when your intended patsy was in the opposite direction? Doh!

And who was surrounded by open ground, wtf?

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/49/f1/c9/49f1c950f35e9ae490e04c6385ada256.jpg)



JohnM

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 13, 2018, 05:35:09 AM
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Not nearly as much as Dale Myers pretended.

I said nothing about Myers. The victim seating positions seen in multiple images taken along the parade route put the lie to a need for Wecht's 'magic' bullet nonsense.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Brown on July 13, 2018, 06:50:03 AM
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You obviously didn't read the threads on this very forum when Lane died.

I did and they were nothing like the disgusting things said about Mack after his passing.  Give it up.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Capasse on July 13, 2018, 12:13:23 PM
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No, you certainly did not.
yes, we certainly did.

This is from the old forum:
Quote from: Howard Gee  May 18, 2016, 05:26:30 PM    
Quote
This was posted on another forum. I don't know who Barry Ryder is, but he didn't think much of Mark Lane.
==================================================

"My sincere condolences go to the friends and family of Mark Lane. However, I will not mourn his passing or pay tribute to him. To do so would be hypocritical. I had a low regard of the man.

His writings, talks and broadcasts about the assassination of President Kennedy have done irreparable harm to the general understanding of the murder.

In the half century since the events of Dallas, Lane earned big money peddling paranoia and half-truth. His writings were all characterised by strategic omissions of evidence and witness testimony. His showboating before the Warren Commission (and later the HSCA) earned him public rebukes from both bodies.

Witnesses who were 'interviewed' by him often slammed him for misrepresenting what they had said (eg. Charles Brehm) or denied ever being interviewed by him at all (eg. Mary Woodward). Lane's disgraceful telephone conversation with Helen Markham showed him to be willing to stoop to any depth to advance his arguments.

Lane had no regard for 'the whole truth'. His books and pronouncements are characterised by wilful withholding of crucial information.

'Rush To Judgment' has no mention of Johnny Brewer or Julia Postal. These two witnesses were the sole reason why the DPD went to the Texas theatre to search for a man who was acting suspiciously. Lane omitted all mention of them so as to create an air of suspicion about the actions of the DPD.

His treatment of Jack Ruby's testimony was disgraceful. Whole swathes of Ruby's statements were ignored and the essential meaning of Ruby's protestations were turned on their head because of it. Ruby denied all foreknowledge of the assassination or of Oswald. Lane's duplicity painted a very different picture.

'Plausible Denial' features the Marita Lorenz deposition which was given for the Hunt v. Liberty Lobby appeal. In his usual fashion however, Lane omitted the parts of the testimony which proved that Lorenz was lying. Lane knew that she was lying but he cut-and-pasted her words to suit his purpose.

Finally, should any reader feel that I'm being unfair to a deceased man who cannot respond to my accusations, it should be noted that I have negatively reviewed the two books previously mentioned (on amazon). Firstly, my accusations were made whilst Lane was alive and as the author of the books in question he would have been advised of the existence of the reviews. Secondly, saying bad things about the deceased is something that never seemed to bother Lane himself.

He had no qualms at all when it came to insinuating the deceased J. D. Tippit into a nefarious 'plot' with Jack Ruby. The whole, shabby 'Carousel meeting' garbage that Lane peddled to the Warren Commission and the reading public was an utter disgrace.

Lane is gone but all of the poison that he injected into the public consciousness still circulates and will doubtless continue to do so.

That's not much of an epitaph." -- Barry Ryder; May 13, 2016

why do you tell lies?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve Barber on July 13, 2018, 04:06:45 PM


Only those of us who dealt with Gary Mack personally, would know the type of person he was.

Many of us knew him as a snake in the grass--and not because of his "about face".  We had personal experiences with him long before the Sixth Floor Museum came into existence.  If I may make a suggestion, please read the chapter titled "The Investigations" , available on the CD-Rom in Reclaiming History.  Flip to the title "Acoustics", and please read what actually happened with Gary when the conclusions of the HSCA were challenged (the acoustics tests).  As you know, Gary was the person who received the credit for the Dallas police Dictabelt recording being brought to the attention of the HSCA and that it contained gunshots.  Well, it's all in within the chapter and it's not pretty.  Few--if any of you--know what went on behind the scenes, but you can find out the facts as they happened by reading the chapter in Reclaiming History. 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 13, 2018, 04:26:46 PM
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Only those of us who dealt with Gary Mack personally, would know the type of person he was.

Many of us knew him as a snake in the grass--and not because of his "about face".  We had personal experiences with him long before the Sixth Floor Museum came into existence.  If I may make a suggestion, please read the chapter titled "The Investigations" , available on the CD-Rom in Reclaiming History.  Flip to the title "Acoustics", and please read what actually happened with Gary when the conclusions of the HSCA were challenged (the acoustics tests).  As you know, Gary was the person who received the credit for the Dallas police Dictabelt recording being brought to the attention of the HSCA and that it contained gunshots.  Well, it's all in within the chapter and it's not pretty.  Few--if any of you--know what went on behind the scenes, but you can find out the facts as they happened by reading the chapter in Reclaiming History.

       Gary's repeated M.O. of going back stage and getting others to proffer his opinion(s)/carry his water vs directly engaging in discussion on this forum is Not indicative of someone with heart felt convictions of merit. To Gary's credit he was very good at responding to questions and supplying detailed assassination related information when asked. 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Gary Craig on July 13, 2018, 06:42:07 PM
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I always laugh when I see another make a comment on a subject which they very obviously have no idea about the subject they're addressing.

Gary Mack certainly was not a "lone nut advocate".

Perhaps you should educate yourself a little better on the subject before any further comments on it.  Just a thought.

"Gary Mack certainly was not a "lone nut advocate".

 :D

Gary 'larry dunkel' Mack made $150,000 a year running a museum located in the spot the official

narrative says a Lone Nut shot JFK from.

If not a advocate then at least a paid schill.

IMO of course.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Walton on July 13, 2018, 06:56:40 PM
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I'm not sure what you're driving at?
In my post you originally responded to, the evidence I presented of a plethora of scientific facts proved that there was no frontal shooter, besides why put a shooter out the front when your intended patsy was in the opposite direction? Doh!

And who was surrounded by open ground, wtf?





JohnM

When a bullet terminates in the back of someone (not the "back of the neck" as Ford added at the last minute) - meaning it does not come out but stops dead in the victim's back - how in the world would this bullet which stopped dead in its tracks also be able to exit (where?) and go on to cause more wounds in another victim, and then come out pristine after hitting one of the hardest bones in the body of the second victim?

Remember, one of the WC supporters' heroes of this is Humes who said this.  Remember him? "The wound in the back ended there and no viable exit was discovered."

It's important to remember this, John, and not get too mealy-mouthed.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Walton on July 13, 2018, 07:10:28 PM
Comparing Mark Lane with Gary Mack is ridiculous.  Lane was writing conspiracy way before he had to interview anyone or before there was any cash to be made.  He wrote this article in December '63, mere days after the murder.

http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/The_critics/Lane/Natl-Guardian/Natl_Guardian.html

And his own xxxxing country would not even publish it.  He had to go over to England to get it published.  Think about that for a moment and ask yourself - if the government and its lapdog media conglomerate had really, truly been interested in vigorously pursuing the truth of this case, they would have published this article in a heartbeat.  Hoover would have been out in front of the FBI building, flags flapping, stating we're going to get to the bottom of this like he did with the country hillbilly John Dillinger 30 years before.

None of this ever happened. Oswald's death easily and conveniently shut every avenue of inquiry forever because all it'd take was to tweak and fudge the record to get the official and foregone conclusion.

And that's exactly what happened. Gary "I used to be a CTer until I got a job at the 6th Floor Museum" Mack was just one part of the lapdog messaging system they had in place to keep polishing the creaky and full-of-xxxx lone nut story.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Steve Barber on July 13, 2018, 09:18:32 PM
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       Gary's repeated M.O. of going back stage and getting others to proffer his opinion(s)/carry his water vs directly engaging in discussion on this forum is Not indicative of someone with heart felt convictions of merit. To Gary's credit he was very good at responding to questions and supplying detailed assassination related information when asked.

It was all for self serving purposes whenever Gary would give answers to questions and detailed assassination related information.  As long as he always held the upper hand, he was delighted to help someone.   Simply put. Gary Mack was not a nice guy. 
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Duncan MacRae on July 13, 2018, 09:39:59 PM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 13, 2018, 10:29:08 PM
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When a bullet terminates in the back of someone (not the "back of the neck" as Ford added at the last minute) - meaning it does not come out but stops dead in the victim's back - how in the world would this bullet which stopped dead in its tracks also be able to exit (where?) and go on to cause more wounds in another victim, and then come out pristine after hitting one of the hardest bones in the body of the second victim?

Remember, one of the WC supporters' heroes of this is Humes who said this.  Remember him? "The wound in the back ended there and no viable exit was discovered."

It's important to remember this, John, and not get too mealy-mouthed.
Why on Earth would an Assassin use an underpowered rifle that can barely penetrate a human body, were some of your snipers just trying to annoy Kennedy?



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 13, 2018, 10:44:53 PM
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Why on Earth would an Assassin use an underpowered rifle that can barely penetrate a human body, were some of your snipers they just trying to annoy Kennedy?

JohnM

I'd advise you to duck if someone aims a Carcano at you.

FMJ ammo was designed to overpenetrate and remain intact.
Gun nuts today advise against using such ammo for homeD since even if you land a couple on an invader, you might also put your wife out of her misery (just kidding)
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: James Hess on July 13, 2018, 10:51:12 PM
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I am a huge fan of Dr. Cyril Wecht and as he explains what he feels happened in Dallas and especially Bethesda , his logic and expertise speaks volumes about the JFK Case.


Not so much...if you can ....just listen to the first 30 seconds without laughing.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 14, 2018, 05:20:44 PM
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Instead of these continual vague opinionated responses, how about you provide some actual evidence?

You know as well as I do that the forum history got wiped since then.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 14, 2018, 05:21:55 PM
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I said nothing about Myers. The victim seating positions seen in multiple images taken along the parade route put the lie to a need for Wecht's 'magic' bullet nonsense.

No they don't.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Joe Elliott on July 17, 2018, 12:19:29 AM

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I am a huge fan of Dr. Cyril Wecht and as he explains what he feels happened in Dallas and especially Bethesda , his logic and expertise speaks volumes about the JFK Case.




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Not so much...if you can ....just listen to the first 30 seconds without laughing.




Dr. Wecht clearly explains that the SBT is impossible because the wound in JFKís back is actually lower than the throat wound.

However, as one can tell from the autopsy photographs, the back wound is higher than the throat wound.

(http://odbic.com/images/jfkBackWound.png)

I measured the downward angle of the red line and found it to be about 17 degrees, exactly the amount one would expect from a shot from the sniperís nest. Assuming the neck is 6 inches thick horizontally, this would mean the back wound is about 1.8 inches above the throat wound.



The HSCA:

I donít care the HSCA said the back wound was lower. The HSCA said a lot of things that were not true. And if there is a conflict between what the HSCA says and what my eyes see, I am going to go with my eyes.



The Clothes Maketh the Case:

The bullet holes in the clothes mean little. It has been shown that clothes can be move some relative to the body and they can bunch up. We can even see that JFKís coat is bunched up in the photographs taken within a few seconds of the shots.

Question:

Can anyone name a single court case where the court ignored the autopsy photographs and went with the locations of the holes in the clothes to establish the exact location of a wound?


I expect to hear nothing but silence on this question. But, apparently, we need to make a special exception in the JFK case.



The CTers want me to be guided by the clothes, but only up to a certain point. Autopsy doctors use the clothes to help determine what are entry wounds and what are exit wounds. The bullet holes in the clothes clearly indicate the back wound was an entrance wound and the throat wound was an exit wound. If I use the clothes consistently to determine the wounds, I must conclude that JFK was hit from behind, with the bullet angling upwards as it passed through his neck.

This would indicate an impossible shot, fired from the engine compartment of the follow up Secret Service vehicle. The shooter was literally under Clint Hillís nose.

What CTers really want is for me to use the evidence of the clothes, but in an inconsistent manner. Ignore the bullet directions as indicated by the clothes. And only pay attention to the location of the holes. And to ignore the possibility of the clothes bunching up.



My conclusion about Dr. Wecht:

Dr. Wecht has the education, the expertise, and the experience to be an impressive spokesman for either side. But all this is nullified by the lies he has told over the years.

He presented obviously false diagrams to congress, and in his public lectures to the public, for many years, trying to demonstrate the SBT is impossible. The positions of JFK and Connally are false. The angle of the bullet trajectory does not match the true angle from the sniperís nest.

And repeats the standard CT lie that the back wound is lower than the throat wound. It doesnít matter how may degrees you have, or the initials you have after your name, if you are clearly being dishonest, like Dr. Wecht.

Unlike Mike Orr, I think Dr. Wechtís statements say volumes about his character, not about this case.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mike Orr on July 17, 2018, 02:22:51 AM
The Assassination of JFK should have been a case that was solved by a Dallas Parkland Hospital Autopsy but instead the body was taken back to Bethesda and the autopsy was done and we have been asked to believe what we have been told were the results of that autopsy. I've often wondered how powerful Gary Mack felt when certain aspects of the case would make you lean towards the Conspiracy side or the side of a Lone Gunman . It's quite obvious that JFK and his brother Bobby ruffled a whole lot of feathers while JFK was the POTUS . It seemed like LBJ's problems went away after JFK was killed. The Vietnam war was back on . The Oil barons got to keep their oil depletion allowance which allowed them to not be taxed for 27.5% of their oil revenue. JFK was going to lower their oil percentage but after JFK was killed the Johnson administration kept the 27.5% the whole time he was in office. War & Oil = A whole lot of money !!! I guess I'm tired of haggling over the How's and the Who's of JFK's Assassination ! The important question is why was JFK assassinated ?
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 17, 2018, 02:26:32 AM
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You know as well as I do that the forum history got wiped since then.






Exactly, you made a disparaging racist comment based on absolutely no verifiable evidence at all, Hmmmm, I'm starting to see a pattern!



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 17, 2018, 02:31:44 AM
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The Assassination of JFK should have been a case that was solved by a Dallas Parkland Hospital Autopsy




There would have been exactly zero difference wherever the autopsy was undertaken, the irrefutable evidence will stand for all time.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/pacjd0haj/alotofevidence2a.jpg)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Mike Orr on July 17, 2018, 03:46:55 AM
There is a way past due "Apology" that is owed to those who saw what they saw but were told that they were mistaken about what they saw . One thing is for certain. There are those who couldn't see the truth if it was right in front of them. You saw what you saw and you don't owe anyone an explanation. They have to live with their BS.
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: John Mytton on July 17, 2018, 04:38:44 AM
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There is a way past due "Apology" that is owed to those who saw what they saw but were told that they were mistaken about what they saw . One thing is for certain. There are those who couldn't see the truth if it was right in front of them. You saw what you saw and you don't owe anyone an explanation. They have to live with their BS.



Quote
There is a way past due "Apology" that is owed to those who saw what they saw but were told that they were mistaken about what they saw .
\


Yes Mike let's examine what they saw, as opposed to the total consistency of the "side of head eyewitnesses", the "back of head eyewitnesses" only consistency is their inconsistency, see Mike when you have memories of reality they corroborate but when you make up stuff the outcome is obvious.

Consistent eyewitnesses and physical evidence

(https://s15.postimg.cc/pacjd0haj/alotofevidence2a.jpg)


Made up stuff!

(https://s15.postimg.cc/vdypaxcgb/Eyewitness_inconsistencies.gif)



JohnM
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Joe Elliott on July 17, 2018, 05:11:40 AM

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The Assassination of JFK should have been a case that was solved by a Dallas Parkland Hospital Autopsy but instead the body was taken back to Bethesda and the autopsy was done and we have been asked to believe what we have been told were the results of that autopsy. I've often wondered how powerful Gary Mack felt when certain aspects of the case would make you lean towards the Conspiracy side or the side of a Lone Gunman . It's quite obvious that JFK and his brother Bobby ruffled a whole lot of feathers while JFK was the POTUS . It seemed like LBJ's problems went away after JFK was killed. The Vietnam war was back on . The Oil barons got to keep their oil depletion allowance which allowed them to not be taxed for 27.5% of their oil revenue. JFK was going to lower their oil percentage but after JFK was killed the Johnson administration kept the 27.5% the whole time he was in office. War & Oil = A whole lot of money !!! I guess I'm tired of haggling over the How's and the Who's of JFK's Assassination ! The important question is why was JFK assassinated ?




(http://odbic.com/images/jfkBackWound.png)


You are dodging the main issue. As John pointed out, it doesnít matter if the autopsy pictures were taken in Texas or in the Washington D. C. area, the picture is still going to show the back wound as higher than the throat wound.

And it doesnít matter where the autopsy was performed. If it was supposed to have been held in the Washington D. C. area, but was performed in Dallas instead, the CTers would have claimed that naturally Johnson would arrange for the autopsy to be performed in Texas, where he had the most influence. If he allows the body to be flown back east, God knows where Mrs. Kennedy would want the autopsy to be performed.



The point is, you are impressed by Dr. Wecht.

Questions:

What is so impressive about Dr. Wecht describing the back wound being lower than the throat wound to a room full of ignorant people who donít know any better?

What evidence has Dr. Wecht presented to support this assertion that trumps the autopsy photographs?

Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Michael Capasse on July 17, 2018, 03:11:13 PM
I suppose you could find a local Dallas mortician to mix up some plaster of paris
then stretch a piece of rubber over the gaping hole at the back of the President's head -- :D

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/846/41307299300_a0106c55fb_b.jpg)
                                                                                                                                      author Joe West notes

Thomas Robinson
Gawler's Funeral Home

testimony before the Assassination Records Review Board

Purdy: Could you tell how large the opening had been caused by the BULLETS?

Robinson: Not really, well, I guess I can because a good bit of the bone had been blown away.
There was nothing there to piece together, so I would probably say about (the size of) a small orange.

Purdy: Could you give us an estimate of inches and the nature of the shape?
Robinson: Three.

Purdy: And the shape?
Robinson: Circular.

Purdy: Was it fairly smooth or fairly ragged?
Robinson: Ragged.

Purdy: Approximately where was this wound located?
Robinson: Directly behind the back of the head.
(ARRB, MD-63, pp. 1-2)
Title: Re: Gary Mack and the about face !
Post by: Royell Storing on July 17, 2018, 04:06:20 PM
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I suppose you could find a local Dallas mortician to mix up some plaster of paris
then stretch a piece of rubber over the gaping hole at the back of the President's head -- :D

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/846/41307299300_a0106c55fb_b.jpg)
                                                                                                                                      author Joe West notes

Thomas Robinson
Gawler's Funeral Home

testimony before the Assassination Records Review Board

Purdy: Could you tell how large the opening had been caused by the BULLETS?

Robinson: Not really, well, I guess I can because a good bit of the bone had been blown away.
There was nothing there to piece together, so I would probably say about (the size of) a small orange.

Purdy: Could you give us an estimate of inches and the nature of the shape?
Robinson: Three.

Purdy: And the shape?
Robinson: Circular.

Purdy: Was it fairly smooth or fairly ragged?
Robinson: Ragged.

Purdy: Approximately where was this wound located?
Robinson: Directly behind the back of the head.
(ARRB, MD-63, pp. 1-2)

        Well done.