JFK Assassination Forum

Photographic Film Video & Audio Discussion & Debate => Photographic Film Video & Audio Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Martin Hinrichs on May 30, 2018, 11:10:25 AM

Title: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Martin Hinrichs on May 30, 2018, 11:10:25 AM
Some say it was just a shot form behind. From the School Book Depository. If that is true a miracle from God happens to the motion of JFK's head.

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-30-2018/8pO-IP.gif)
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on May 30, 2018, 04:16:20 PM
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Some say it was just a shot form behind. From the School Book Depository. If that is true a miracle from God happens to the motion of JFK's head.

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-30-2018/8pO-IP.gif)

    The above is a Very good extended look at Jackie's face immediately following the Explosion at Z313. Jackie is close to being cheek-to-cheek with JFK at Z313 yet her face shows No Trace of any Blood or Brain Matter. The JFK Limo Hood had traces of blood/brain matter on it,  SA Kellerman & SA Greer seated in the front seat also had blood/brain matter fall upon them, both Connally's were subjected to blood/brain matter in the middle of the Limo, the back seat in which JFK and Jackie were sitting displayed Spatter throughout it, the Limo Trunk also had traces fall upon it, and DPD Officer Hargis was spattered while riding his motorcycle only feet to Jackie's Left hand side. Yet, here we see nary a trace of blood/brain matter on the face of Jackie Kennedy.  This portion of the Z Film defies logic.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Tim Nickerson on May 31, 2018, 02:00:35 AM
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Some say it was just a shot form behind. From the School Book Depository. If that is true a miracle from God happens to the motion of JFK's head.

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-30-2018/8pO-IP.gif)

Not a miracle from God. Just a neuromuscular reaction, that's all.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on May 31, 2018, 06:51:51 PM
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Not a miracle from God. Just a neuromuscular reaction, that's all.

...or a "jet effect".  Whatever it takes...
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on May 31, 2018, 08:06:49 PM
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Not a miracle from God. Just a neuromuscular reaction, that's all.

          Thanks for providing your Professional Opinion Dr.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Tim Nickerson on May 31, 2018, 10:26:13 PM
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          Thanks for providing your Professional Opinion Dr.

You're welcome.   :)

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/headwnd.htm

Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Barry Pollard on June 01, 2018, 03:44:01 PM
Massive explosion to the front, nothing at the back.
Coming from behind does not then automatically make it from Oswald or the TSBD.
There is no god.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on June 01, 2018, 03:48:49 PM
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You're welcome.   :)

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/headwnd.htm

   The above is the Proper manner in which a Layman proffers corroboration to support a medical prognosis they have espoused on a specific issue. Please try and follow this procedure in the future.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Steve Barber on June 03, 2018, 05:35:34 PM
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    The above is a Very good extended look at Jackie's face immediately following the Explosion at Z313. Jackie is close to being cheek-to-cheek with JFK at Z313 yet her face shows No Trace of any Blood or Brain Matter. The JFK Limo Hood had traces of blood/brain matter on it,  SA Kellerman & SA Greer seated in the front seat also had blood/brain matter fall upon them, both Connally's were subjected to blood/brain matter in the middle of the Limo, the back seat in which JFK and Jackie were sitting displayed Spatter throughout it, the Limo Trunk also had traces fall upon it, and DPD Officer Hargis was spattered while riding his motorcycle only feet to Jackie's Left hand side. Yet, here we see nary a trace of blood/brain matter on the face of Jackie Kennedy.  This portion of the Z Film defies logic.

 Rubbish. There was blood all over her face. You can't possibly be serious that you think we are supposed to be able to see the blood spatter on her face in the film, are you?  Furthermore, JFK and Mrs. Kennedy are nowhere near"Cheek to cheek" during the fatal shot.  The Mary Moorman photograph proves this.  Take a good look.  Even furthermore, the proof that Mrs. Kennedy had head matter on her face is not only what she said to Theodore White about  her face, but there is a photograph of her exiting Parkland hospital standing next to the hearse and blood can be seen on her face in a good clear print of the photo.  The photographer's name is not known and the original print's origin is not known:  (https://i.imgur.com/hEzAuCu.jpg)
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on June 03, 2018, 11:05:47 PM
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Rubbish. There was blood all over her face. You can't possibly be serious that you think we are supposed to be able to see the blood spatter on her face in the film, are you?  Furthermore, JFK and Mrs. Kennedy are nowhere near"Cheek to cheek" during the fatal shot.  The Mary Moorman photograph proves this.  Take a good look.  Even furthermore, the proof that Mrs. Kennedy had head matter on her face is not only what she said to Theodore White about  her face, but there is a photograph of her exiting Parkland hospital standing next to the hearse and blood can be seen on her face in a good clear print of the photo.  The photographer's name is not known and the original print's origin is not known:  (https://i.imgur.com/hEzAuCu.jpg)

        You are Claiming there is a lot of blood/matter, "...blood all over her face", spanning the time frame of Z313 up until she leaves Parkland Hospital. Seeing is believing. Where is it?
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Steve Barber on June 04, 2018, 02:23:43 AM
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        You are Claiming there is a lot of blood/matter, "...blood all over her face", spanning the time frame of Z313 up until she leaves Parkland Hospital. Seeing is believing. Where is it?

Are you blind, Storing?  The picture I posted is the best there is out there until someone finds out who the photographer is and the original photo.  You go ahead , though, and deny it.  It's so you.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Mytton on June 04, 2018, 03:48:48 AM
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...or a "jet effect".  Whatever it takes...






Kennedy was struck from behind.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/e5xog2pbf/z31234l.gif)



JohnM
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 04, 2018, 04:19:04 AM
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Kennedy was struck from behind.

Or was he?

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-30-2018/8pO-IP.gif)
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Mytton on June 04, 2018, 04:57:24 AM
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Or was he?

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-30-2018/8pO-IP.gif)





The initial contact was from behind.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/e5xog2pbf/z31234l.gif)

All the matter moves forward and away from the sniper's nest.

(http://i.imgur.com/MPK17hA.jpg)

And a single shot to the head is validated by the autopsy photos.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/8cs7tfiiz/JFKBOH.gif)



JohnM
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 04, 2018, 06:33:58 AM
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And a single shot to the head is validated by the autopsy photos.

LOL.  How does that prove exactly one shot?
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Steve Taylor on June 04, 2018, 06:44:28 AM
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And a single shot to the head is validated by the autopsy photos.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/8cs7tfiiz/JFKBOH.gif)

JohnM

What is behind JFK's ear?  Could it be wax holding his ear on?  Any idea of the timing of these photos (post or pre autopsy)?
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Mytton on June 04, 2018, 07:43:26 AM
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LOL.  How does that prove exactly one shot?




I see one back of head entrance wound and zero exit wounds how about you? or are you suggesting some redneck assassin bought a popgun instead of the appropriate hardware but then how does that explain your Hollywood type reaction? Thinking......

(https://s15.postimg.cc/8cs7tfiiz/JFKBOH.gif)

And besides there's nothing like setting up a patsy with a shooter in the opposite direction and using totally different weaponry, how absurd! LMFAO!



JohnM
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Steve Barber on June 04, 2018, 03:15:45 PM
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Or was he?

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-30-2018/8pO-IP.gif)

So you are one of the people who actually believe that a bullet weighing about 3 ounces knocked a man's body backwards like this?On top of that, the top of his head was shot off and  the skull fragments were found several yards away from him to his front.  Man you'd better study up on ballistics and forensics.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on June 04, 2018, 04:47:44 PM
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Are you blind, Storing?  The picture I posted is the best there is out there until someone finds out who the photographer is and the original photo.  You go ahead , though, and deny it.  It's so you.

         As posted, YOUR photo shows No Blood on Jackie's face. As Bill Murray would say, "That's a FACT Jack".
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Steve Barber on June 04, 2018, 05:20:44 PM
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         As posted, YOUR photo shows No Blood on Jackie's face. As Bill Murray would say, "That's a FACT Jack".

I don't care what you posted, Storing. It's rubbish. I suggest you look closer, or go online and look at other prints of it.  Her face, according to her statement, is "caked with blood and hair".  Are you suggesting she is lying?  Why would you suggest such a thing, Storing?
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on June 04, 2018, 07:35:24 PM
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I don't care what you posted, Storing. It's rubbish. I suggest you look closer, or go online and look at other prints of it.  Her face, according to her statement, is "caked with blood and hair".  Are you suggesting she is lying?  Why would you suggest such a thing, Storing?

       Now running away from the photo YOU posted. Wise move.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 04, 2018, 09:32:38 PM
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I see one back of head entrance wound and zero exit wounds how about you?

So what you cannot see doesn't exist?  I see a limited view of only a portion of somebody's head in a photo.  How about you?

Quote
And besides there's nothing like setting up a patsy with a shooter in the opposite direction and using totally different weaponry, how absurd! LMFAO!

This strawman never gets old with LN-ers.  I didn't say anything about setting up a patsy.  I asked how your photo demonstrated exactly one shot.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 04, 2018, 09:37:46 PM
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So you are one of the people who actually believe that a bullet weighing about 3 ounces knocked a man's body backwards like this?

How the hell do you know the weight of a bullet that you don't even believe in?

Something caused the violent reaction back and to the left.  A "jet effect"?  A "neuromuscular reaction"?  Man you'd better study up on neurology.

You know who did study extensively on ballistics and forensics?  Sherry Fiester.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Steve Barber on June 04, 2018, 10:41:37 PM
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How the hell do you know the weight of a bullet that you don't even believe in?

Something caused the violent reaction back and to the left.  A "jet effect"?  A "neuromuscular reaction"?  Man you'd better study up on neurology.

You know who did study extensively on ballistics and forensics?  Sherry Fiester.

 What was it, John? A cannonball?  That's what a bullet would have to weigh to knock someone in that direction!  Yeah, there was a cannon parked behind the stockade fence and it was fired from the knoll.  Furthermore, where did I say that I don't see President Kennedy moving backward?  That is an insinuation on your part. O course I know he moves backward, but not by a bullet!  My personal belief--and this won't matter to you--is that a neuro muscular reaction caused that to happen. And there was no such thing as "to the left".  That is a fairly tale.  John Kennedy was already leaning hard left, his body went straight back, no "to the left" about it.

 Yeah... I know Sherry Fiester "studied" ballistics and forensics.  So did a lot of other professionals who have studied the Zapruder film, whose profession is forensics, ballistics and pathology.  Excuse me. I rely on their findings rather than the erroneous findings of a conspiracy nutter. 
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Mytton on June 04, 2018, 11:12:06 PM
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So what you cannot see doesn't exist?  I see a limited view of only a portion of somebody's head in a photo.  How about you?

This strawman never gets old with LN-ers.  I didn't say anything about setting up a patsy.  I asked how your photo demonstrated exactly one shot.



Quote
So what you cannot see doesn't exist?  I see a limited view of only a portion of somebody's head in a photo.  How about you?

So all YOUR BOH eyewitnesses were lying wrong, Oops!!!

(http://www.whokilledjfk.net/images/b%20O%20H.8.jpg)



JohnM
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 04, 2018, 11:15:57 PM
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What was it, John? A cannonball?  That's what a bullet would have to weigh to knock someone in that direction!  Yeah, there was a cannon parked behind the stockade fence and it was fired from the knoll.

Strawman appeals to ridicule are never effective.

Quote
  Furthermore, where did I say that I don't see President Kennedy moving backward?

Huh?  I never said anything even close to that.

Quote
My personal belief--and this won't matter to you--is that a neuro muscular reaction caused that to happen.

Of course you do.

Quote
And there was no such thing as "to the left".  That is a fairly tale.  John Kennedy was already leaning hard left, his body went straight back, no "to the left" about it.

I don't believe you.

Quote
Yeah... I know Sherry Fiester "studied" ballistics and forensics.  So did a lot of other professionals who have studied the Zapruder film, whose profession is forensics, ballistics and pathology.  Excuse me. I rely on their findings rather than the erroneous findings of a conspiracy nutter.

If I was like you, I would say something snarky about the qualifications of a rock drummer.  But if you're implying that Sherry was a conspiracy nutter who didn't actually study ballistics and forensics, I would stack her credentials up against any of your "professionals" any day of the week.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 04, 2018, 11:17:03 PM
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So all YOUR BOH eyewitnesses were lying wrong, Oops!!!

Moving the goalposts again.  Typical Mytton.

How does your photo prove exactly one shot to the head?
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Mytton on June 04, 2018, 11:31:01 PM
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Moving the goalposts again.  Typical Mytton.

How does your photo prove exactly one shot to the head?




Quote
Moving the goalposts again.  Typical Mytton.

I don't blame you, I would distance myself from ALL those BOH eyewitnesses too!

Quote
How does your photo prove exactly one shot to the head?

What the fcuk are you talking about my original text said "autopsy photos"! Oops!!!



JohnM
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Tim Nickerson on June 05, 2018, 02:33:30 AM
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You know who did study extensively on ballistics and forensics?  Sherry Fiester.

You know who else studied extensively on ballistics and forensics? Larry Sturdivan. What did Sherry Fiester have to say about the blood and brain matter found on the Limo windshield and on the front hood?
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Steve Barber on June 05, 2018, 02:54:30 AM
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       Now running away from the photo YOU posted. Wise move.

 You truly are full of yourself, Storing.  I'm not "running away" from anything.  I support what I said. You, on the other hand, have no response for for what I said about Mrs. Kennedy's own words to Theodore White.  Her face wasn't altered from the time her husbands head was shot just inches from her own and splattered with blood and other matter until she went onto the plane at Love Field where she looked at herself in a mirror and saw herself.  She regretted washing the blood off her face, and says so during the interview with White.  Read it or shut up--and stop telling people who prove you're wrong that they're "running away" from things when you don't even know what the facts are before you open your mouth.   
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 05, 2018, 03:46:25 AM
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I don't blame you, I would distance myself from ALL those BOH eyewitnesses too!

Yeah, I know Mytton.  20 medical professionals in one giant mass delusion all mistook the top of his head for the back of his head.

Whatever it takes.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 05, 2018, 03:55:13 AM
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You know who else studied extensively on ballistics and forensics? Larry Sturdivan.

yes.....and?
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on June 05, 2018, 05:19:42 AM
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You truly are full of yourself, Storing.  I'm not "running away" from anything.  I support what I said. You, on the other hand, have no response for for what I said about Mrs. Kennedy's own words to Theodore White.  Her face wasn't altered from the time her husbands head was shot just inches from her own and splattered with blood and other matter until she went onto the plane at Love Field where she looked at herself in a mirror and saw herself.  She regretted washing the blood off her face, and says so during the interview with White.  Read it or shut up--and stop telling people who prove you're wrong that they're "running away" from things when you don't even know what the facts are before you open your mouth.

            You have been around long enough to know how to present Alleged evidence to corroborate a position.  Post your Source and post Quotations. STOP paraphrasing Jackie with your own spin being applied.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Mytton on June 05, 2018, 06:16:05 AM
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Yeah, I know Mytton.  20 medical professionals in one giant mass delusion all mistook the top of his head for the back of his head.

Whatever it takes.


Nice try but some vague recollections from some super stressed medical staff who mostly never got near or even touched the president and who even then were wildly inconsistent is bordering on pathetic!

(https://s15.postimg.cc/u0rqhgpcr/Lee_Kania_sbohwitness.gif)

But on the other hand we have a stack of physical evidence which is powerfully reinforced by honest memories and a much more consistent and believable wound location.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/yzf8vnt23/alotofevidence2a.jpg)

Try again Einstein!



JohnM
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on June 05, 2018, 01:06:55 PM
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Nice try but some vague recollections from some super stressed medical staff who mostly never got near or even touched the president and who even then were wildly inconsistent is bordering on pathetic!

(https://s15.postimg.cc/u0rqhgpcr/Lee_Kania_sbohwitness.gif)

But on the other hand we have a stack of physical evidence which is powerfully reinforced by honest memories and a much more consistent and believable wound location.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/yzf8vnt23/alotofevidence2a.jpg)

Try again Einstein!



JohnM


          What exactly do you mean by "HONEST Memories"?  People sometimes mis-remember what they have seen or heard, but this is Not a DISHONEST/Intentional act. Your attaching "HONEST" to the alleged evidence You are proffering reveals you have Doubt.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Steve Barber on June 05, 2018, 01:49:52 PM
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            You have been around long enough to know how to present Alleged evidence to corroborate a position.  Post your Source and post Quotations. STOP paraphrasing Jackie with your own spin being applied.

  Read this, Storing:  It's all in here:  http://www.jfklancer.com/pdf/Camelot.pdf

  I have been posting about this for some time now, referring to it.  Where have you been?!

I'll tell you what.  I'll stop what I am "doing" when you stop posting your BS about the Zapruder film without proof and stop making outrageous claims e.g. like Mrs. Kennedy not having any blood on her face because it can't be  seen in the Zapruder film, when she did have blood on her face!  Deal?  I didn't think so. You can't post anything without posting your "own spin" yourself, hypocrite!
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 05, 2018, 07:16:20 PM
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Nice try but some vague recollections from some super stressed medical staff who mostly never got near or even touched the president and who even then were wildly inconsistent is bordering on pathetic!

You know how many of the "super stressed medical staff" (who were used to working in the ER) said top of the head?  ZERO.  Why is it that when "super stressed" witnesses say what you like, then they suddenly become unassailable?
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 05, 2018, 07:17:12 PM
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          What exactly do you mean by "HONEST Memories"?  People sometimes mis-remember what they have seen or heard, but this is Not a DISHONEST/Intentional act. Your attaching "HONEST" to the alleged evidence You are proffering reveals you have Doubt.

Mytton defines "honest" as supporting his opinion.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 05, 2018, 08:14:36 PM
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Yeah, I know Mytton.  20 medical professionals in one giant mass delusion all mistook the top of his head for the back of his head.

Whatever it takes.

How many of your medical professionals were seated right beside JFK in the limo?

'Top, behind the forehead'---Jackie Kennedy, when asked where the wound was
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on June 05, 2018, 10:00:39 PM
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  Read this, Storing:  It's all in here:  http://www.jfklancer.com/pdf/Camelot.pdf

  I have been posting about this for some time now, referring to it.  Where have you been?!

I'll tell you what.  I'll stop what I am "doing" when you stop posting your BS about the Zapruder film without proof and stop making outrageous claims e.g. like Mrs. Kennedy not having any blood on her face because it can't be  seen in the Zapruder film, when she did have blood on her face!  Deal?  I didn't think so. You can't post anything without posting your "own spin" yourself, hypocrite!

      STEVE - Thanks for posting that Link in an attempt to corroborate your 2 Opinions: (1) Jackie had blood/matter on her face Immediately after Z313, and (2) The Current Zapruder Film Not being Bogus.
                  With respect to (1) Jackie's face blood/matter: with there being No visual evidence of this on the Current Z film immediately following Z313 including the point where she crawls out onto the Limo trunk and then returns to the back seat, let's look at what Jackie says transpired at roughly Z313 and thereafter. "....then he slumped in my lap." "Then Clint Hill, he loved us, he was the first man IN THE CAR.... We ALL LAY DOWN in the car...."  Jackie says nothing as to being spattered at Z313 and actually did not realize any blood was on her face until she was aboard AF1 and preparing for the LBJ swearing in ceremony. Whatever the degree of blood/matter that was on her face, as well as the caked blood on her gloves and her nylons, this most likely occurred during the time period "WE ALL LAY DOWN in the car....".  A side note here: Jackie is claiming that SA Clint Hill got INSIDE the JFK Limo and "LAY DOWN" with her and JFK. I have no doubt this did happen as SA Hill was assigned to protect Jackie. Laying atop her after shots had been fired would be in line with his assignment. The "Lay Down" of SA Hill would also be consistent with the conduct of SA Youngblood when he immediately went from the front seat of the LBJ Car and dove into the back seat forcing LBJ down while Youngblood Laid atop LBJ. These 2 agents acting in this identical manner  in order to protect the person they were assigned to guard would indicate these actions = SS Protocol. Problem is, if SA Clint Hill is LAYING DOWN INSIDE the JFK Limo, (Jackie's account), who is the No Sunglasses Man photographed riding spread eagle atop the JFK Limo trunk at various points prior to reaching Parkland Hospital?
                     With respect to (2) The Current Zapruder Film Not being altered: Jackie's account of the physical actions of JFK and Gov Connally in No Way match what we see on the Current Zapruder Film. With respect to the actions of JFK she says, "Jack, he had His HAND OUT" "Then he slumped in my lap". Where on the Current Zapruder Film at any point after coming out from behind the Stemmons Sign up to Z313 do we see JFK with "His HAND OUT"?. As we all know, the Current Z Film shows JFK clutching his throat/chest with Both Hands. Regarding the actions of Gov Connally, Jackie says, "Connally GRABBING HIS ARMS saying "no no no nonono" with His FIST BEATING". Where as Z313 approaches do we see Gov. Connally "GRABBING HIS ARMS", "FIST BEATING" ???  The movements of JFK and Gov Connally as described by Jackie Kennedy corroborate the Current Z Film NOT depicting reality on 11/22/63.
 
                      Thanks again for providing that Link. Even though you inadvertently have supplied further Proof of the Current Z Film being Bogus, you also have supplied corroboration as to SA Hill having "LAY DOWN" Inside the JFK Limo as it traveled to Parkland Hospital. 54+ years after the JFK Assassination there remains much we do Not know.   
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 05, 2018, 10:53:01 PM
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How many of your medical professionals were seated right beside JFK in the limo?

Not sure what difference that makes.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Steve Barber on June 05, 2018, 11:53:34 PM
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      STEVE - Thanks for posting that Link in an attempt to corroborate your 2 Opinions: (1) Jackie had blood/matter on her face Immediately after Z313, and (2) The Current Zapruder Film Not being Bogus.
                  With respect to (1) Jackie's face blood/matter: with there being No visual evidence of this on the Current Z film immediately following Z313 including the point where she crawls out onto the Limo trunk and then returns to the back seat, let's look at what Jackie says transpired at roughly Z313 and thereafter. "....then he slumped in my lap." "Then Clint Hill, he loved us, he was the first man IN THE CAR.... We ALL LAY DOWN in the car...."  Jackie says nothing as to being spattered at Z313 and actually did not realize any blood was on her face until she was aboard AF1 and preparing for the LBJ swearing in ceremony. Whatever the degree of blood/matter that was on her face, as well as the caked blood on her gloves and her nylons, this most likely occurred during the time period "WE ALL LAY DOWN in the car....".  A side note here: Jackie is claiming that SA Clint Hill got INSIDE the JFK Limo and "LAY DOWN" with her and JFK. I have no doubt this did happen as SA Hill was assigned to protect Jackie. Laying atop her after shots had been fired would be in line with his assignment. The "Lay Down" of SA Hill would also be consistent with the conduct of SA Youngblood when he immediately went from the front seat of the LBJ Car and dove into the back seat forcing LBJ down while Youngblood Laid atop LBJ. These 2 agents acting in this identical manner  in order to protect the person they were assigned to guard would indicate these actions = SS Protocol. Problem is, if SA Clint Hill is LAYING DOWN INSIDE the JFK Limo, (Jackie's account), who is the No Sunglasses Man photographed riding spread eagle atop the JFK Limo trunk at various points prior to reaching Parkland Hospital?
                     With respect to (2) The Current Zapruder Film Not being altered: Jackie's account of the physical actions of JFK and Gov Connally in No Way match what we see on the Current Zapruder Film. With respect to the actions of JFK she says, "Jack, he had His HAND OUT" "Then he slumped in my lap". Where on the Current Zapruder Film at any point after coming out from behind the Stemmons Sign up to Z313 do we see JFK with "His HAND OUT"?. As we all know, the Current Z Film shows JFK clutching his throat/chest with Both Hands. Regarding the actions of Gov Connally, Jackie says, "Connally GRABBING HIS ARMS saying "no no no nonono" with His FIST BEATING". Where as Z313 approaches do we see Gov. Connally "GRABBING HIS ARMS", "FIST BEATING" ???  The movements of JFK and Gov Connally as described by Jackie Kennedy corroborate the Current Z Film NOT depicting reality on 11/22/63.
 
                      Thanks again for providing that Link. Even though you inadvertently have supplied further Proof of the Current Z Film being Bogus, you also have supplied corroboration as to SA Hill having "LAY DOWN" Inside the JFK Limo as it traveled to Parkland Hospital. 54+ years after the JFK Assassination there remains much we do Not know.


 My pleasure, Storing.  Anytime I can further expose the total lunacy of you conspiracy nutters to others, I will continue to post these things .  You need psychiatric help, Storing. 
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on June 06, 2018, 01:03:57 AM
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 My pleasure, Storing.  Anytime I can further expose the total lunacy of you conspiracy nutters to others, I will continue to post these things .  You need psychiatric help, Storing.

        Which is correct regarding the movements of JFK and Gov Connally? (1) Jackie Kennedy's eyewitness account? (2) The Current Zapruder Film?
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Mark Valenti on June 06, 2018, 10:09:54 PM
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 My pleasure, Storing.  Anytime I can further expose the total lunacy of you conspiracy nutters to others, I will continue to post these things .  You need psychiatric help, Storing.

Steve, don't waste your time. Spend it doing anything else. Picking your teeth. Kicking a dog. But don't waste it on him. It's pointless.

Here's a video that shows even TRAINED OBSERVERS who actually anticipate an event, prepare for it, and watch it with extreme attention STILL GET IT WRONG.  How could a woman under severe trauma do better?

Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on June 06, 2018, 11:06:46 PM
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Steve, don't waste your time. Spend it doing anything else. Picking your teeth. Kicking a dog. But don't waste it on him. It's pointless.

Here's a video that shows even TRAINED OBSERVERS who actually anticipate an event, prepare for it, and watch it with extreme attention STILL GET IT WRONG.  How could a woman under severe trauma do better?


           Steve proffered Jackie's remembrances of the 11/22/63 events. Those of you Cherry Pickers that want to Selectively use Jackie to corroborate whatever your point might be and then run away from her other memories which she also made public, should be ashamed and embarrassed.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 06, 2018, 11:10:20 PM
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Here's a video that shows even TRAINED OBSERVERS who actually anticipate an event, prepare for it, and watch it with extreme attention STILL GET IT WRONG.  How could a woman under severe trauma do better?

That's fine, but then you don't get to use Jackie for the location of the head wound either.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Mark Valenti on June 06, 2018, 11:13:12 PM
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That's fine, but then you don't get to use Jackie for the location of the head wound either.

I can live with that.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Mark Valenti on June 06, 2018, 11:15:03 PM
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           Steve proffered Jackie's remembrances of the 11/22/63 events. Those of you Cherry Pickers that want to Selectively use Jackie to corroborate whatever your point might be and then run away from her other memories which she also made public, should be ashamed and embarrassed.

Nobody should rely on eyewitness testimony, especially that which comes from people who suffered mortally frightening trauma. 86 all of it because it may prop up a theory or two but is ultimately unreliable.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 07, 2018, 12:59:16 AM
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Nobody should rely on eyewitness testimony, especially that which comes from people who suffered mortally frightening trauma. 86 all of it because it may prop up a theory or two but is ultimately unreliable.

You mean like Helen Markham?
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Barry Pollard on June 07, 2018, 01:48:33 AM
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on June 07, 2018, 04:48:30 PM
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I can live with that.

          ALL Eyewitnesses that are subjected to trauma are Not immediately transformed into walking zombies. Some people would love to throw out All of the eyewitness accounts of the JFK assassination and rely on the Bogus JFK Assassination Images. This is a Mission Accomplished for those involved in the conspiracy along with the weary JFK Ostriches that are eager to put their head into the sand and fall fast asleep.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 07, 2018, 06:10:01 PM
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          ALL Eyewitnesses that are subjected to trauma are Not immediately transformed into walking zombies. Some people would love to throw out All of the eyewitness accounts of the JFK assassination and rely on the Bogus JFK Assassination Images. This is a Mission Accomplished for those involved in the conspiracy along with the weary JFK Ostriches that are eager to put their head into the sand and fall fast asleep.

Eyewitnesses aren't walking zombies, but they are unreliable.  So are biased interpretations of photos though.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on June 07, 2018, 08:37:00 PM
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Eyewitnesses aren't walking zombies, but they are unreliable.  So are biased interpretations of photos though.

          You are Generalizing with your Blanket assertion above. Not ALL Eyewitnesses are "Unreliable".
          There are segments of the JFK assassination we Know Little about. All of these segments do Not contain nefarious overtones. I believe some of that which we still do Not know involves the SS simply Not wanting to reveal their Protocol. Chief Rowley's WC testimony in which he tap danced around questions regarding the 11/22/63 fire power on hand makes this obvious. To this day, Few Details are Known as to what occurred in the time frame between the JFK Limo boarding the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp and JFK being wheeled inside Trauma Room 1. Jackie would certainly Know/Recall that She, JFK, and Clint Hill were All Laying Down Inside the Limo as it sped to Parkland Hospital. Of course, this does raise several questions: (1) WHEN did SA Hill get inside the JFK Limo and lay down? (2) WHERE did this occur? (3) Did the Limo STOP? and (4) If SA Hill is laying down inside the Limo, who is pictured riding spread eagle across the Limo trunk during its' journey to Parkland?     
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on June 07, 2018, 11:41:49 PM
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          You are Generalizing with your Blanket assertion above. Not ALL Eyewitnesses are "Unreliable".

Yes, all eyewitnesses are unreliable.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 08, 2018, 09:18:31 PM
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Not sure what difference that makes.

Of course you don't.

Jackie had the best view of the head wound: top, behind the forehead.

Now show us images (photographs and/or film) of even one of these Parkland doctors (who claim a rear exit) actually looking closely enough at Kennedy's head to make an accurate, valid determination.

After all, you did claim ALL witnesses are unreliable. However, I would say that witness testimony backed up by film and photographic evidence would go a long way in persuading a jury that the witness is reasonably accurate.

The Zfilm backs up Jackie's closeup view. She kept looking at JFK's head throughout the impact & the brain-matter exita sequence it seems to me.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Bill Chapman on June 08, 2018, 09:25:07 PM
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Yes, all eyewitnesses are unreliable.

Except those who support your agenda, of course...
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 10, 2018, 05:25:32 PM
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Except those who support your agenda, of course...

Nope, I meant what I said.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on July 11, 2018, 03:06:40 PM
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Yes, all eyewitnesses are unreliable.


          Your statement above would DQ you from Ever being seated on a Jury.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 11, 2018, 05:01:07 PM
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          Your statement above would DQ you from Ever being seated on a Jury.

That fact that you disagree with it demonstrates your ignorance of any study ever made on how memory works.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: Royell Storing on July 11, 2018, 05:12:42 PM
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That fact that you disagree with it demonstrates your ignorance of any study ever made on how memory works.

      Your statement above does Not refute what I said. YOU would Never get seated on a jury when declaring, "ALL eyewitnesses are Unreliable". This also DQ's your opinion(s) of ALL eyewitness testimony/accounts of the JFK Assassination. YOU Are Prejudiced. YOU are incapable of rendering an objective/reasoned opinion/conclusion in this Crucially important area of the JFK Assassination.
Title: Re: Back and to the left.....back and to the left
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 13, 2018, 08:38:15 PM
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      Your statement above does Not refute what I said. YOU would Never get seated on a jury when declaring, "ALL eyewitnesses are Unreliable".

Says who?  Judge Storing?

(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/roflmao.gif)

It's just a fact, whether you approve of it or not.