JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Bill Brown on May 24, 2018, 06:35:29 AM
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Oswald was to be transported in an armored truck as part of a long procession of police cars traveling from the Commerce Street ramp to the entrance to the county jail.
The armored truck was sitting atop the Commerce Street ramp. This was to be the vehicle that Oswald would be placed in to be taken to the county jail. The driver of the truck had concerns about backing the truck down the ramp, fearing that the truck would stall on it's way up the ramp after picking up it's very infamous passenger. The driver was also concerned with the overhead air conditioning ducts.
Fritz didn't learn of the plan to transfer Oswald in the armored truck until Sunday mid-morning. He objected heavily. Fritz went to Curry with the idea that the alleged assassin should secretly be transferred in one of the police cars in the procession and that the armored truck would be a decoy. Curry agreed and they set the plan into action.
Fritz ordered Lt. Rio Pierce to take one of the police cars from the basement, take it up the Main Street ramp and go around the block to the Commerce Street side to take the lead position in the procession to the county jail.
Jack Ruby wired the money to his dancer at 11:17 a.m. and headed to the top of the Main Street ramp as he walked out the door of the Western Union office, which was only a half block away from the top of the ramp. The money wire receipt was time stamped at 11:17.
As the car driven by Lt. Pierce made it's way up the Main Street ramp to begin it's trek around the block to the Commerce Street side, officer Roy Vaughn, who's sole job was to guard the top of the Main Street ramp, stepped out into the street to halt traffic so that Pierce's car could turn onto Main and head around the block. With Vaughn no longer guarding his post, Ruby entered the ramp and made his way down.
James Turner, an employee of WBAP-TV Fort Worth, was standing at the bottom of the ramp on the east side, near the railing.
He testified that shortly before the shooting of Oswald, he observed a man making his way down the ramp who he (Turner) was confident was Jack Ruby.
Det. Jim Leavelle spoke with Ruby while Ruby was in custody at City Hall. Leavelle asked Ruby how he got into the basement. Ruby stated that when the car driven by Rio Pierce came up the ramp and the guard went out into the street, he walked down the ramp.
Leavelle wanted to see if Ruby was being truthful so he asked his men if any of them knew who drove the car up the ramp just before the shooting. None of them knew who the driver was. Leavelle then went to Capt. Fritz and asked him who was driving the car. Fritz told Leavelle that he ordered Lt. Pierce to take one of the police cars in the basement and take it up the ramp to go around the block to Commerce Street.
None of Leavelle's men knew who drove the car up the ramp but Jack Ruby was perfectly aware of who was driving that car because he saw Pierce driving it with his own eyes.
Ruby gained entrance into the basement via the Main Street ramp.
Oswald was shot at 11:21 a.m., just four minutes after Ruby wired the money to his dancer. Ruby was in the basement no more than forty-five seconds before he shot the wretched waif Oswald. If Ruby had arrived in the basement much earlier, he would surely had been noticed and made to leave.
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I think it is possible that the DPD allowed Ruby to go down the ramp. Not because they were involved in a conspiracy to kill Oswald but simply because they knew him and didn't think he posed any risk. It's equally possible that they were distracted by events and Ruby went unnoticed. What is not plausible is that Ruby spent the morning sleeping in and running meaningless errands which necessitated a delay in the transfer of Oswald. It has all the hallmarks of an unlucky (for Oswald) spontaneous event and none of a planned event. In a planned event, the designated shooter is in place, then the transfer takes place. No reason to cut this to the split second.
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(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/coy3a.jpg)
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/coy4.jpg)
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So we see in this snippet Ruby would NOT confirm or deny that he came down the ramp for ?fear of getting someone into trouble?! How much more trouble could he get in since he was charged with MURDER? It seems he may have been afraid of something worse. What was it?
Wow.
How do you get from Ruby not wanting to get someone into trouble to Ruby not wanting to get himself into more trouble?
Ruby did not want to get someone into trouble, i.e. the guard at the top of the ramp.
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(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/coy3a.jpg)
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/coy4.jpg)
Yes? And?
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Wow.
How do you get from Ruby not wanting to get someone into trouble to Ruby not wanting to get himself into more trouble?
Ruby did not want to get someone into trouble, i.e. the guard at the top of the ramp.
Not what he said You sure allow yourself a lot of leeway in terms of what witnesses actually said and what you think there words should mean At the moment the person who guarded the Main Street ramp Thus as the evidence stands the evidence is Ruby did not enter there
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Wow. You think small. The person/people he didn't want to get into trouble was/were much more powerful than a guard.
Nice job of 🍒 picking as the bulk of this post shows that there is NO supporting evidence for the WC claim of Ruby coming down the Main Street Ramp that YOU support.
You didn't answer my question.
How do you get from Ruby not wanting to get someone into trouble (what he said) to Ruby not wanting to get himself into more trouble (what you're claiming he said)?
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Not what he said You sure allow yourself a lot of leeway in terms of what witnesses actually said and what you think there words should mean At the moment the person who guarded the Main Street ramp Thus as the evidence stands the evidence is Ruby did not enter there
No.
The only evidence available points to Ruby entering the basement via the Main Street ramp. Do YOU have a shred of evidence proving Ruby gained access to the basement in a different manner?
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Good stuff Rob!
And then we have Bill trying to decipher what Ruby really meant by refusing to speak Lets not forget the good guy conspiracy surrounding all of this Ruby was just avenging the death of JFK for Jackie If he refuses to talk it is because he is protecting a good guy cop who let him get through for the honor of this great avenger Such great sacrifices these people made for one another in the pursuit of justice
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The only evidence available points to Ruby entering the basement via the Main Street ramp. Do YOU have a shred of evidence proving Ruby gained access to the basement in a different manner?
Is Roy Vaughn's testimony a "shred of evidence"?
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More games. You have taken a single point out of a very long post and now you are going to harp on that while ignoring the plethora of evidence showing that Ruby did NOT walk down the ramp as you claimed in the OP.
This is the response I would expect from a dishonest forum member who clearly did not understand what he was reading, regarding Ruby not wanting to get someone into trouble.
"So we see in this snippet Ruby would NOT confirm or deny that he came down the ramp for ?fear of getting someone into trouble?! How much more trouble could he get in since he was charged with MURDER? It seems he may have been afraid of something worse. What was it?" - Rob Caprio
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Is Roy Vaughn's testimony a "shred of evidence"?
How does anything Roy Vaughn said prove that Ruby entered the basement another way (besides the Main Street ramp)?
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Yes? And?
You just stated as fact that Ruby was in the DPD no more than 45 seconds before shooting Ozzie.
Croy's affidavit has Ruby there longer.
And?
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You just stated as fact that Ruby was in the DPD no more than 45 seconds before shooting Ozzie.
Croy's affidavit has Ruby there longer.
And?
Croy's affidavit has Ruby there longer.
No, it doesn't.
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No, it doesn't.
Yes it does.
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Yes it does.
Well don't keep us all in suspense. Explain how Croy's affidavit proves that Ruby was in the basement for longer than forty-five seconds.
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Well don't keep us all in suspense. Explain how Croy's affidavit proves that Ruby was in the basement for longer than forty-five seconds.
Read it. Explain how his interaction with Ruby took 45 seconds.
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Read it. Explain how his interaction with Ruby took 45 seconds.
So... no explanation. Got it.
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So... no explanation. Got it.
Ok, no explanation. Got it.
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Patrolman Stavis Ellis who worked side by side with Patrick Dean told him that Ruby came in the basement holding a cameraman posing as a member of a TV crew.
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No.
The only evidence available points to Ruby entering the basement via the Main Street ramp. Do YOU have a shred of evidence proving Ruby gained access to the basement in a different manner?
The point of course is simply to prove the official story has no basis in fact but thanks to Denis he took it a step farther Well done Denis
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The cab driver, Harry Tasker, was parked on Main st for at least 30 minutes before and right up till Jack Ruby supposedly walked to the entrance of the ramp.
WC Testimony of Harry Tasker:
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know Jack Ruby at all?
Mr. TASKER. No--no, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You've seen his pictures, of course, since?
Mr. TASKER. Oh, I've seen his pictures.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him around in that crowd that morning?
Mr. TASKER. No, sir; I never have remembered seeing that man coming up, walking, riding, or anything else.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn't see him coming up Main Street from the Western Union office?
Mr. TASKER. No.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn't see him walking along Main Street?
Mr. TASKER. No, sir.
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Oswald was to be transported in an armored truck as part of a long procession of police cars traveling from the Commerce Street ramp to the entrance to the county jail.
The armored truck was sitting atop the Commerce Street ramp. This was to be the vehicle that Oswald would be placed in to be taken to the county jail. The driver of the truck had concerns about backing the truck down the ramp, fearing that the truck would stall on it's way up the ramp after picking up it's very infamous passenger. The driver was also concerned with the overhead air conditioning ducts.
Fritz didn't learn of the plan to transfer Oswald in the armored truck until Sunday mid-morning. He objected heavily. Fritz went to Curry with the idea that the alleged assassin should secretly be transferred in one of the police cars in the procession and that the armored truck would be a decoy. Curry agreed and they set the plan into action.
Fritz ordered Lt. Rio Pierce to take one of the police cars from the basement, take it up the Main Street ramp and go around the block to the Commerce Street side to take the lead position in the procession to the county jail.
Jack Ruby wired the money to his dancer at 11:17 a.m. and headed to the top of the Main Street ramp as he walked out the door of the Western Union office, which was only a half block away from the top of the ramp. The money wire receipt was time stamped at 11:17.
As the car driven by Lt. Pierce made it's way up the Main Street ramp to begin it's trek around the block to the Commerce Street side, officer Roy Vaughn, who's sole job was to guard the top of the Main Street ramp, stepped out into the street to halt traffic so that Pierce's car could turn onto Main and head around the block. With Vaughn no longer guarding his post, Ruby entered the ramp and made his way down.
James Turner, an employee of WBAP-TV Fort Worth, was standing at the bottom of the ramp on the east side, near the railing.
He testified that shortly before the shooting of Oswald, he observed a man making his way down the ramp who he (Turner) was confident was Jack Ruby.
Det. Jim Leavelle spoke with Ruby while Ruby was in custody at City Hall. Leavelle asked Ruby how he got into the basement. Ruby stated that when the car driven by Rio Pierce came up the ramp and the guard went out into the street, he walked down the ramp.
Leavelle wanted to see if Ruby was being truthful so he asked his men if any of them knew who drove the car up the ramp just before the shooting. None of them knew who the driver was. Leavelle then went to Capt. Fritz and asked him who was driving the car. Fritz told Leavelle that he ordered Lt. Pierce to take one of the police cars in the basement and take it up the ramp to go around the block to Commerce Street.
None of Leavelle's men knew who drove the car up the ramp but Jack Ruby was perfectly aware of who was driving that car because he saw Pierce driving it with his own eyes.
Ruby gained entrance into the basement via the Main Street ramp.
Oswald was shot at 11:21 a.m., just four minutes after Ruby wired the money to his dancer. Ruby was in the basement no more than forty-five seconds before he shot the wretched waif Oswald. If Ruby had arrived in the basement much earlier, he would surely had been noticed and made to leave.
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I am a dispassionate lurker with no axe to grind either way in this discussion. I have carefully read each note within this thread. While this issue can't be brought to a jury or other body to determine what is the ultimate truth as to how Ruby got into position to kill Oswald, applying the criteria of what does the preponderance of the evidence seem to indicate, I think fair minded people would have to conclude that Ruby was assisted in some way in entering the location in order to kill Oswald. The person who had the responsibility to watch the ramp passed three polygraphs claiming he did not see Ruby entering - there are other ancillary witnesses that state the same thing. I don't view this through the lens of pro or anti conspiracy - I can only judge the assembled facts as we know them. Jack Ruby did not enter via the ramp - the fact that two separate investigatory bodies did not elect to determine to a greater extent how he did get in is unconscionable.
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How does anything Roy Vaughn said prove that Ruby entered the basement another way (besides the Main Street ramp)?
Is this another word game? He said the ramp was in his view the entire time and nobody walked past him.
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Wow.
How do you get from Ruby not wanting to get someone into trouble to Ruby not wanting to get himself into more trouble?
Ruby did not want to get someone into trouble, i.e. the guard at the top of the ramp.
Isn't it fun to see how these characters avoid an obvious possibility that Vaughn might have simply been covering his arse by stating that he didn't see Ruby.
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Isn't it fun to see how these characters avoid an obvious possibility that Vaughn might have simply been covering his arse by stating that he didn't see Ruby.
LOL. Every time a witness doesn't conform to the narrative, Chapman invokes the "covering his arse" excuse. Frazier, Brennan, Vaughn...
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The cab driver, Harry Tasker, was parked on Main st for at least 30 minutes before and right up till Jack Ruby supposedly walked to the entrance of the ramp.
WC Testimony of Harry Tasker:
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know Jack Ruby at all?
Mr. TASKER. No--no, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You've seen his pictures, of course, since?
Mr. TASKER. Oh, I've seen his pictures.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him around in that crowd that morning?
Mr. TASKER. No, sir; I never have remembered seeing that man coming up, walking, riding, or anything else.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn't see him coming up Main Street from the Western Union office?
Mr. TASKER. No.
Mr. HUBERT. You didn't see him walking along Main Street?
Mr. TASKER. No, sir.
Since we know Ruby indeed came from the Western Union office, Tasker not seeing Ruby doesn't mean much.
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I am a dispassionate lurker with no axe to grind either way in this discussion. I have carefully read each note within this thread. While this issue can't be brought to a jury or other body to determine what is the ultimate truth as to how Ruby got into position to kill Oswald, applying the criteria of what does the preponderance of the evidence seem to indicate, I think fair minded people would have to conclude that Ruby was assisted in some way in entering the location in order to kill Oswald. The person who had the responsibility to watch the ramp passed three polygraphs claiming he did not see Ruby entering - there are other ancillary witnesses that state the same thing. I don't view this through the lens of pro or anti conspiracy - I can only judge the assembled facts as we know them. Jack Ruby did not enter via the ramp - the fact that two separate investigatory bodies did not elect to determine to a greater extent how he did get in is unconscionable.
Hi Joe.
Roy Vaughn is the "person who had the responsibility to watch the ramp".
Vaughn "passed" a polygraph saying that he didn't "see Ruby enter". All this really means is that Vaughn is not lying when he says no one walked down that ramp. However, if Ruby entered the ramp unseen by Vaughn, then wouldn't Vaughn still pass the polygraph if he said something he believed to be true, even if he was wrong (but didn't know it)?
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Your failure to support with evidence what you claim is a fact in your OP shows who is the dishonest forum poster.
I have already answered this question. You just have chosen to ignore it so you can continue to distract from the obvious point of you having NO supporting evidence for your claim.
No. You didn't already answer the question. You're seriously confused as to what Ruby was saying. The proof of your confused state is in your own words. Ruby said he did not want to get anyone into trouble. You question that by asking why would Ruby be worried about getting into even more trouble if he already was being charged with murder. That makes no sense because Ruby did not say that he was worried about getting into more trouble.
Your confusion would be comical if it wasn't so sad.
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No one saw Ruby coming down the Main Street Ramp. Deal with it.
If Ruby came from the Western Union office, how exactly would he have gotten into the basement in that short timeframe except by the ramp? If this was a planned event, why cut it so close and why would Ruby be running these meaningless errands? Can you understand how improbable that would be in a planned event?
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I think it is possible that the DPD allowed Ruby to go down the ramp. Not because they were involved in a conspiracy to kill Oswald ...
If one statement is 'possible' why not the other?
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James Turner, an employee of WBAP-TV Fort Worth, was standing at the bottom of the ramp on the east side, near the railing.
He testified that shortly before the shooting of Oswald, he observed a man making his way down the ramp who he (Turner) was confident was Jack Ruby.
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Why not cite/quote your source for this claim?
So you're not familiar with the very report which you criticize so heavily. You're a phony.
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Nov 25 1963 New York Times
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/1124.html
Notice for interest the front page -
Johnson affirms aims in Viet-Nam
Oswald is hushed
Johnson scored [sic]? by Chinese Reds
It was another lightning fast telepathic investigation by Henry Wade concluded in one evening...
District Attorney Henry Wade said he understood that the police were looking into the possibility that Oswald had been slain to prevent him from talking, The Associated Press reported. Mr. Wade said that so far no connection between Oswald and Ruby had been established.
The 52-year-old night-club operator, an ardent admirer of President Kennedy and his family, was described as having been distraught.
The politically eccentric warehouse clerk
And here I thought he was a communist
Four plainclothes men, from a detail of about 50 police officers carrying out the transfer, pounced on Ruby as he fired the shot and overpowered him.
Maybe they needed more guys
Ruby, who came to Dallas from Chicago 15 years ago, had a police record here listing six allegations of minor offenses. The disposition of five was not noted. A charge of liquor law violation was dismissed. Two of the entries, in July, 1953, and May, 1954, involved carrying concealed weapons.
The city police, working with the Secret Service and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, said last night that they had the case against Oswald "cinched."
When newsmen assembled at the police administrative offices at 10 o'clock, Chief Curry commented: "We could have done this earlier if I hadn't given you fellows that 10 o'clock time."
Chief Curry disclosed this morning that to thwart an attempt against Oswald, the trip was to be made in an armored van of the kind used to transfer money.
"We're not going to take any chances," he said. "Our squad cars are not bullet-proof. If somebody's going to try to do something, they[sic] wouldn't stop him."
probably meant ...that wouldn't stop him
The plan was to lead Oswald out the doorway in the center of the basement and about 75 feet up the ramp to the back of the armored car.
"He's a respectable citizen who's been here for years and certainly is entitled to bail," the lawyer said. "We'll make any amount of bail."
"He [Ruby] is a great admirer of President Kennedy," the lawyer said, "and police officers."
Sheriff Bill Decker commented that the police "did everything humanly possible" to protect Oswald, as he said they had in the case of President Kennedy.
CYA everybody
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He cannot cite this adequately; Turner saw Ruby somewhat down the ramp
WC never did confirm Turner saw Ruby walk down that ramp from the street
Turner saw a man, who he believed to be Ruby, walking down the ramp.
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...and subsequently the HSCA concluded...
"The evidence available indicates that Jack Ruby did not come down the Main Street ramp when Lieutenant Pierce's car exited"
The HSCA also foolishly concluded that the sound of rifle fire was captured on the dictabelt recording as the motorcade was already en route to Parkland. So what?
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Wanted to get this in because it hasn't been shown that much.
Starting at 0:57 watch the lightning fast reaction of Homicide Captain Will Fritz.
Maybe he didn't get any sleep the previous night.
Dittos his buddies next to him-
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I have followed this thread a bit, but pardon me if this has already been mentioned According to Armstrong, Kenneth Croy, is standing next to Ruby in the basement before the shooting
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I have followed this thread a bit, but pardon me if this has already been mentioned According to Armstrong, Kenneth Croy, is standing next to Ruby in the basement before the shooting
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/coy3a.jpg)
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/coy4.jpg)
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Try and make sense out of this one.....
Image of FBI Agent James Bookhout posing as Jack Ruby exposes the con
by Ralph Cinque
The JFK case has been blown wide open with irrefutable proof that FBI Agent James Bookhout was the real shooter of Lee Harvey Oswald.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_-eKDmM4jkA/V_ze_Gzv3qI/AAAAAAAA0iQ/aE22hh9Mj3Aho-qXTcj7Uvs7Z2DhYt5LgCLcB/s640/Bookhout2.jpg)
All along I asked myself: Why did they need a Ruby impostor at the Dallas PD when they had the real Ruby? The answer is that the real Ruby didn?t do it; he was just a patsy, like Oswald. It was a bait and switch. They replaced the real shooter with Ruby and than tried to vanish the other guy, but unfortunately for them, one picture of him got taken.
So, why did Jack Ruby go along with it? Jack Ruby wasn?t well in the head. His mind wasn?t right. You only have to read his testimony to know that. And, he kept saying over and over that he had no memory of shooting Oswald, that he remembered going to the jail and then being swarmed by cops, but he remembered nothing in-between. He kept saying that it was all a ?blur.?
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/10/16/jfk-astounding-new-revelations-reveal-the-true-shooter-of-oswald/
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a Ruby impostor
I know.. stupid right?
An earlier topic....
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,122.0.html
Three different news reporters encounters 'Ruby' [asking questions] near the DPD hours before the Oswald transfer.
Apologies if this has been mentioned here in this thread.
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Frank Martin was a Juvenile Dept Captain. He was on station during the Oswald transfer.
He "got sick" in May 1966 and died of an "apparent cancer" about a month later.
Didn't all that happen to Jack Ruby?
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/martin_f.htm
Mr. HUBERT. "And that to his north, this was the only entrance to the compound which Ruby could have used." Now, what is it that you would like to say about that, sir?
Captain MARTIN. There is a double door going into this basement at the city hall which I wouldn't consider a ramp. They never considered it that. I don't know, but it is more or less a corridor, or hallway going into the basement.
Mr. HUBERT. There is a corridor, you say, that leads from the jail building into the basement area ?
Captain MARTIN. It is from the garage area into the basement.
Mr. HUBERT. I see.
Captain MARTIN. I don't know
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, did you make any statement to them about auxiliary officers being stationed at any place?
Captain MARTIN. Yes. Yes; I told them that there were, but I meant the two ramps coming into the basement from the outside.
Mr. HUBERT. I see. In other words, what you want to clarify about this is that what you meant when you made reference to auxiliary officers and ramps, that you meant the entrances or exits at the street level of the Main and Commerce ramps?
Captain MARTIN. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have occasion to talk to Ruby at any time thereafter?
Captain MARTIN. No, no.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, Captain Martin, is there anything else you would like to say concerning any aspect of this matter at all ?
Captain MARTIN. I--don't take this down.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, if you don't want to say it on the record, you'd better not say it at all.
Captain MARTIN. There is a lot to be said, but probably be better if I don't say it.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I don't know what you mean by----
Captain MARTIN. Well----
Mr. HUBERT. That it would be better. What we are seeking to find out is the facts on it.
Captain MARTIN. I understand.
Mr. HUBERT. If what you have to say is more or less a matter of opinion, that is one thing. I don't want to ask you to express your opinion, but any facts you know that you think might bear upon this matter, I would ask that you state those facts.
Captain MARTIN. Well, there is not but one thing that I could say about the whole business. Of course, we are not experienced in handling this sort of a prisoner. I don't guess anybody is, as far as that goes, but the way I saw it, there was no organization at all. I didn't know who was in charge or anything about it. I don't guess anybody--either people should have been told something--what to do and what to expect. We weren't----
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir. Have you any other facts that you think have any bearing upon----
Captain MARTIN. No, no; I don't think so. I think it is more or less in that report there [indicating].
We all might wonder what Capt Martin wanted to say 'off the record'.
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Try and make sense out of this one.....
You lost me at "Ralph Cinque".
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Jack Ruby Walked Down The Main Street Ramp
Says he did --clip.....
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After shooting Oswald, Ruby was immediately taken upstairs. He was interrogated for hours. During this time, Sergeant Patrick Dean, Detective Don Archer, Detective Barnard Clardy and Detective Tom McMillan all four heard Ruby say, at that early stage, that he came down the ramp after Pierce drove the car up the ramp.
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I have often pondered the accuracy of the 11:17 (am) time-stamp on Jack Ruby's Western Union receipt.
Apparently the WU office clocks were synchronized with the atomic-clock in Washington DC every morning. However that does not make the time-stamp on the receipt precise enough to determine accurately how much time expired between when Jack Ruby left the counter at the WU until he shot Oswald in the basement of City Hall.
Correct me if I'm wrong: The time stamp was not some fancy device that ticked over the minute (and hour) automatically. I assume the clerk looked at the clock just before stamping the receipt and adjusted the stamp if necessary. So 11:17 (am) could be anywhere between 11:17:01 and 11:17:59; if I'm right about the logistics of stamping WU receipts.
Ruby's fluke-timing of being in place to shoot Lee Harvey Oswald might have been an even closer-run thing than previously thought.
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There were no telephones in the WU office. Ruby waited patiently in line for his turn with the clerk. The clerk testified when Ruby exited he was in no hurry and walked away casually. As it was 55 years ago, this is what is known today. Nothing has changed. Unsure why this AGAIN is being discussed.
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I have often pondered the accuracy of the 11:17 (am) time-stamp on Jack Ruby's Western Union receipt.
Apparently the WU office clocks were synchronized with the atomic-clock in Washington DC every morning. However that does not make the time-stamp on the receipt precise enough to determine accurately how much time expired between when Jack Ruby left the counter at the WU until he shot Oswald in the basement of City Hall.
Correct me if I'm wrong: The time stamp was not some fancy device that ticked over the minute (and hour) automatically. I assume the clerk looked at the clock just before stamping the receipt and adjusted the stamp if necessary. So 11:17 (am) could be anywhere between 11:17:01 and 11:17:59; if I'm right about the logistics of stamping WU receipts.
Ruby's fluke-timing of being in place to shoot Lee Harvey Oswald might have been an even closer-run thing than previously thought.
That's right, Ross. I personally believe that Ruby arrived at the bottom of the ramp with mere seconds to spare. I think that had Ruby arrived earlier, then he would have been seen or recognized by someone and made to leave. His arrival just seconds before the shooting had a lot to do with him not being quickly recognized and made to leave.
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That's right, Ross. I personally believe that Ruby arrived at the bottom of the ramp with mere seconds to spare. I think that had Ruby arrived earlier, then he would have been seen or recognized by someone and made to leave. His arrival just seconds before the shooting had a lot to do with him not being quickly recognized and made to leave.
Too bad Ruby didn't just 'pie' Oswald, like the SNL 1977 opening skit with Bill Murray as Oswald, allowing him to yell 'Live From New York, it's Saturday Night'
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After shooting Oswald, Ruby was immediately taken upstairs. He was interrogated for hours. During this time, Sergeant Patrick Dean, Detective Don Archer, Detective Barnard Clardy and Detective Tom McMillan all four heard Ruby say, at that early stage, that he came down the ramp after Pierce drove the car up the ramp.
Just like the official narrative--no supporting evidence in sight.
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That's right, Ross. I personally believe that Ruby arrived at the bottom of the ramp with mere seconds to spare. I think that had Ruby arrived earlier, then he would have been seen or recognized by someone and made to leave. His arrival just seconds before the shooting had a lot to do with him not being quickly recognized and made to leave.
What do you base your opinion on?
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Never mind the ramp. The theory is that Ruby just happened to be downtown and got a wild hair up his backside and with rage and reaction grabbed his gun and wound his way down to the police basement and fashioned a target on Oswald's belly.
What remains ignored is that Ruby was stalking around the police building the night before ...probably armed and looking for a chance to gun down the accused assassin of JFK. Why else was he be there?
(https://i2.wp.com/jfkfacts.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Ruby-at-Press-Conference.jpg?resize=300%2C217&ssl=1)
The Ruby was actually stalking Oswald angle was ignored at his trial...by the Warren Commission...and by the main stream press.
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Never mind the ramp. The theory is that Ruby just happened to be downtown and got a wild hair up his backside and with rage and reaction grabbed his gun and wound his way down to the police basement and fashioned a target on Oswald's belly.
What remains ignored is that Ruby was stalking around the police building the night before ...probably armed and looking for a chance to gun down the accused assassin of JFK. Why else was he be there?
(https://i2.wp.com/jfkfacts.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Ruby-at-Press-Conference.jpg?resize=300%2C217&ssl=1)
The Ruby was actually stalking Oswald angle was ignored at his trial...by the Warren Commission...and by the main stream press.
Jack Ruby had a reputation in Dallas of being "where there was action".
Jack was curious about the President's presumed assassin from early Friday evening of 22 November 1963. Historically, he was a regular attendee at City Hall including the Dallas PD offices. Jack's brother Earl Ruby had visited him in Dallas (pre-1963) and went with him to the Police Department. He heard many Police say "Hi Jack", Hi Jack", Hi Jack" ad infinitum.
Jack Ruby could have killed Oswald at the Midnight Press Conference. Journalist Lonny Hudkins asked Jack why he didn't? Jack reportedly said: "I was afraid of hitting one of you guys".
None of this rules out Jack Ruby entering the Dallas PD basement via the Main Street ramp.
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Jack was curious about the President's presumed assassin from early Friday evening of 22 November 1963. Historically, he was a regular attendee at City Hall including the Dallas PD offices. Jack's brother Earl Ruby had visited him in Dallas (pre-1963) and went with him to the Police Department. He heard many Police say "Hi Jack", Hi Jack", Hi Jack" ad infinitum.
Most of the cops [& also DA Wade] claimed they didn't even know Jack Ruby ::)
Jack Ruby could have killed Oswald at the Midnight Press Conference.
Maybe.
None of this rules out Jack Ruby entering the Dallas PD basement via the Main Street ramp.
Probably while the sentry [if there really was one] took a convenient restroom break.
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Someone called the DPD and said they were going to kill Oswald but whoever took the call just put the phone call into the " that won't happen bin " and just acted like it was a phony call and that Oswald would be safe while under the watchful eyes of the DPD . Wrong ! It's surprising that not only did Ruby get that close to LHO to shoot him but he was putting himself in a very guilty setting as cameras were rolling and of course the picture that was taken of Oswald being shot by Ruby would win the photographer Bob Jackson the Pulitzer prize for photography . For the photographer Ira Jefferson " Jack " Beers Jr. taking the photo 6/10 tenths of second ahead of Jackson's photo , was something he never got over ! Timing is everything ! The police knew Jack Ruby and if someone did see Ruby go down that ramp and saddle up in position to step out and shoot LHO they probably just thought ,oh hell that's just Ruby who liked being in the spotlight , no matter what ! Ruby had gotten in on the midnight covering of Oswald and corrected the police on the naming of " The Fair Play for Cuba " How would Ruby know about the Fair Play for Cuba ?
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Someone called the DPD and said they were going to kill Oswald but whoever took the call just put the phone call into the " that won't happen bin " and just acted like it was a phony call and that Oswald would be safe while under the watchful eyes of the DPD . Wrong ! It's surprising that not only did Ruby get that close to LHO to shoot him but he was putting himself in a very guilty setting as cameras were rolling and of course the picture that was taken of Oswald being shot by Ruby would win the photographer Bob Jackson the Pulitzer prize for photography . For the photographer Ira Jefferson " Jack " Beers Jr. taking the photo 6/10 tenths of second ahead of Jackson's photo , was something he never got over ! Timing is everything ! The police knew Jack Ruby and if someone did see Ruby go down that ramp and saddle up in position to step out and shoot LHO they probably just thought ,oh hell that's just Ruby who liked being in the spotlight , no matter what ! Ruby had gotten in on the midnight covering of Oswald and corrected the police on the naming of " The Fair Play for Cuba " How would Ruby know about the Fair Play for Cuba ?
The police knew Jack Ruby and if someone did see Ruby go down that ramp and saddle up in position to step out and shoot LHO they probably just thought ,oh hell that's just Ruby...
You're making it sound like every police officer on the force knew Ruby. In reality, far less than one-fourth knew Ruby.
Ruby had gotten in on the midnight covering of Oswald and corrected the police on the naming of " The Fair Play for Cuba " How would Ruby know about the Fair Play for Cuba ?
Listen to the audio of the film footage of that moment. You can clearly hear as much as five voices correct Henry Wade as to the name of the organization. Why is it suspicious that Ruby knew the name of the organization but it's not suspicious that the others knew?
Also, the name of the organization was put out over the national airwaves earlier that afternoon.
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Before you post anything more mythology about how Ruby entered the basement, you might want to read the HSCA analysis of the issue. Ruby did not use the Main St. ramp to enter the basement. This has been known literally for decades.
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You're making it sound like every police officer on the force knew Ruby. In reality, far less than one-fourth knew Ruby.
Listen to the audio of the film footage of that moment. You can clearly hear as much as five voices correct Henry Wade as to the name of the organization. Why is it suspicious that Ruby knew the name of the organization but it's not suspicious that the others knew?
Also, the name of the organization was put out over the national airwaves earlier that afternoon.
Captain Revill stated that out of 1,200 officers on the force about 100-150 knew Ruby.
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Was Jack Ruby a Manchurian Candidate , AKA Sirhan Sirhan ?