JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Matt Grantham on May 14, 2018, 09:49:31 PM
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John Liggett had the reputation of being one of the best embalmers in reconstructing the faces of those who had suffered serious damage before they died, gunshots etc Lois Liggett felt her Husband, John Liggett, was involved in doing something with JFK's body It was also reported that Liggett seems to have come into a lot of money after the assassination
Jay Bert Peck, was LBJ cousin, and supposedly looked and sounded a lot like LBJ Much was made that Jay Bert Peck stood in for LBJ during an event Nov 21 while LBJ was supposedly at the Murchison get together J. Bert Peck?s known role as an ?LBJ Stand-in,? appeared in the People section of Time magazine, in the edition dated August 2, 1968,.(a similar article appeared in Newsweek three days later):
Jay Bert Peck was found shot on the evening of Friday, July 4, 1969, and died the next day. According to his obituary in the Garland Texas News on Sunday, July 6, 1969, he had achieved considerable fame, having appeared on the Johnny Carson television show as well as the movie referenced above. More details on Peck's murder seem hard to come by
On March 27 John Liggett is arrested for the attempted murder of Jay Bert Peck's wife, Dorothy, who later dies from her injuries
Yes it is circumstantial but seems unlikely to be pure coincidence
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/11/no_author/lbjs-look-alike-cousin/
http://dperry1943.com/liggett.html
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Here is a quote of another JFK forum It seems on this forum many of the links people have left do not appear in the archives fror some reason Just wondering if anyone knows of the photograph that is being described?
Here?s that photo taken at the Carousel. From left to right: Susanne Liggett (wife of Malcolm), Malcolm Liggett (brother of John), Jack Ruby, unidentified person, Iris Campbell who was later to become a friend of Lois and her daughter Debra Godwin.
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Here is a quote of another JFK forum It seems on this forum many of the links people have left do not appear in the archives fror some reason Just wondering if anyone knows of the photograph that is being described?
Here?s that photo taken at the Carousel. From left to right: Susanne Liggett (wife of Malcolm), Malcolm Liggett (brother of John), Jack Ruby, unidentified person, Iris Campbell who was later to become a friend of Lois and her daughter Debra Godwin.
I found that the funeral John Liggett allegedly attended circa Nov. 22 and
was called away from was his wife Lois's aunt's funeral.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettLoisAuntAleneBmiller22NovRestlandFuneral.jpg)
My experience was there was little to no interest in this topic. J Bert Peck's wife Dorothy Day Peck did survive Liggett's alleged assault/arson attack in her apartment.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettDorothyDayPeckSSapp.jpg)
Dorothy Day Peck's mother's SS app:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettDorothyDayPeckSSMothersapp.jpg)
Dorothy's mother and aunt were Winfreys, their uncle, HC Winfrey was a friend and co-accused of Dallas underworld investigation target John Stone. Dorothy's aunt was spouse of :
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettDorothyDayPeckAuntWed.jpg)
Waggoner and his brother were major investors in Dallas horse racing until
it was outlawed. Gambler HC Winfrey missed a flight to Las Vegas chartered
by Waggoner, according to an FBI report, but Winfrey was the uncle of
Waggoner's wife.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettDorothyDayPeckAuntDorothyWinfreyHusbandObit.jpg)
Victor H Perry, who inherited the TSBD business from his father, about 1927, listed
his occupation on 1930 US census, as "promoter horse racing". He incorporated with Cason and Campbell in the TSBD before his death about 1939.:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=127594415
The question is why did much younger Dorothy Day marry J Bert Peck? This question
drove my efforts to find out more about Peck's young wife Dorothy and her family.
Dorothy's grandmother had at least one interesting pallbearer, but it could be
because Dorothy's late grandfather had been DPD commissioner early in the
20th century.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettDorothyDayPeckWinfreyGrandmotherObit.jpg)
Dorothy's brother was employed as McGraw Hill book sales rep. dealing with
TSBD. He was killed in a convertible car rollover in July, 1959.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettDorothyDayPeckBrotherObit.jpg)
His successor advised his priest that he attended a party hosted by TSBD president Jack Cason at which he witnessed Mrs. Cason saying someone should shoot JFK.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettDorothyDayPeckBrotherSuccessorFBICason.jpg)
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News report of John Liggett's death:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettJohnShot021475.jpg)
The 1972 arson murders crimes were never solved.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettPeckPayneStrattonHall033074.jpg)
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I located a yearbook picture of Malcom Liggett's wife, Suzanne LaPaugh Liggett, at Binghamton University ( Harper College). Library staff would not send me a picture of the yearbook photo. Here is the photo you mentioned... on the left are Susanne and Malcolm Liggett, it is alleged.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3UTg4x8LzLE/WUK3glwBShI/AAAAAAAA9Zg/f9mZzU2bXi8dEURvOj-Oasa0fZNVVXy-gCLcBGAs/s1600/Carousel%2Bphoto.jpg
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Tom, as you may recall, I was and still am, very interested in this topic. I was hoping you would be able to restore the funeral notices that you posted before the crash. The funeral notice for Alene Miller was, absolutely, for 2PM on Nov. 22.
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Thanks Michael and Tom
The Aileen Miller information is very helpful since I had seen statements that Ligett had been called away from something, but that story adds credibility that he was called away for something urgent that day
I am not sure I get the Wgggoner connection other than his wife was Dorothy Pecks Sister?
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This is a tangled web of information that is very interesting to say the least. It sounds like LBJ's cousin, Peck might have been a little to free with his talk and that could have cost him his life. LBJ was said to have left a trail of bodies including his sister by way of Malcolm Wallace . Liggett still leaves me in a fog of how he got caught up in the happenings around the JFK assassination. I'm going to dive into the information you guys have put out there . Thanks Tom , Michael and Matt.
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Tom, as you may recall, I was and still am, very interested in this topic. I was hoping you would be able to restore the funeral notices that you posted before the crash. The funeral notice for Alene Miller was, absolutely, for 2PM on Nov. 22.
Michael, I cropped this from the entire page of funeral notices published by DMN on 11/22/63.
Unfortunately there is no date on the page image, but the first image in my first post on this
thread is of Alene B Miller's death cert. Unless John Liggett's ex-wife Lois was a liar of
world class ability, she and likely her husband John Liggett were at the funeral of her aunt
at 2:00 pm on Nov. 22, 1963.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JohnLiggettWifeLoisAuntAleneMiller112263Funeral.jpg)
Thanks Michael and Tom
The Aileen Miller information since I has seen statements that Ligett had been called away from something, but that story adds credibility that he was called away for something urgent that day
I am not sure I get the Wgggoner connection other than his wife was Dorothy Pecks Sister?
(Part of my point is that there are voluminous coincidences, or whatever they turn out to
be, in the background of every person of interest connected to people who have been linked
to the JFK Assassination and or cover up.) Again, why would Dorothy Day, in her late 20s in
the late 1950's, marry Jay Bert Peck, in his mid 50s?
Matt, Guy Waggoner's wife, Dorothy Winfrey was Dorothy Day Peck's mother, Virginia's sister.
The amount of money in the article headline is only what his assets in B.C., Canada amounted to.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettDorothyDayPeckUncleWaggonerBCestate.jpg)
His widow, Dorothy Peck's aunt, outlived Waggoner by 49 years.:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/98378322/dorothy-e.-waggoner
My point was that Dorothy's aunt was an extremely wealthy widow and Waggoner was connected with her (widow Waggoner) bookie uncle, H (aka Henry) C Winfrey, who the FBI and DPD took considerable interest in.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettDorothyJDPeckMarkNorthSarahHughsBoscoWinfreyOct1963.jpg)
Bosco was later arrested with DPD detective Charles Sansone, who deserves a whole chapter, himself! He grew up near Boston, was a track star at Bates College in Maine, earned a
batchelors degree and then showed up in Dallas in the 30s as a DPD patrolman of no positive
distinction!
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettSansoneDPDfamilies1954Pinto.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettSansoneFBIbarrettMarch1st1962Civello.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettIanniWifeObitBoscoCivelloCampisi1970.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettSansoneDPDCivelloCousinDetWardell.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettSansoneDPDfamiliesIanni.jpg)
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Type in------ Kennedy's and King ---Evaluating the Case Against Lyndon Johnson
About half way through this information on different aspects of the JFK case. Billie Sol Estes wrote a book called Billie Sol Estes - A Texas Legend of which he said there was a body alteration in the JFK case . But it was not to JFK , but to a lookalike. Before the assassination, a mortician named John Liggett was to find a body like Kennedy's, and it was to later match certain wound descriptions. On the day of the murder, Liggett was picked up in a hearse that contained the lookalikes body. At Love Field he got on a plane and instructions were relayed to him and he made it look like the double had been shot in the head from the rear . Then , photographs of both bodies were taken and were later mixed and matched for the official story. ( Estes, pgs 155-157)
I don't know if this info was already in your hands but as crazy as the case has been , I thought I had heard everything, but this is up there . Some have said that Billie Sol Estes knew a whole lot and was of course very tight with LBJ and gave LBJ a lot of money back in the day.
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/evaluating-the-case-against-lyndon-johnson
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Could Liggett have been part of the talk of the 2 caskets that were being used that night. If Liggett would have been used to create wounds on a JFK lookalike then there is Thomas Robinson talking of the Drs. who were doing damage to the head area to make it look like the damage was caused by a so-called bullet from above and behind. Could Liggett have been one of the men who actually helped do the damage to the head .The JFK casket was to have been taken out to sea but if that was just an empty casket then why would they have taken it out to sea , other than to just say that he was laid to rest at sea. Maybe JFK's body is not in the grave at Arlington . I know this sounds far fetched but with everything involved in this case , there is nothing that would surprise me. A lookalike could be at Arlington and JFK could have been laid to rest at the bottom of the sea.
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Could Liggett have been part of the talk of the 2 caskets that were being used that night. If Liggett would have been used to create wounds on a JFK lookalike then there is Thomas Robinson talking of the Drs. who were doing damage to the head area to make it look like the damage was caused by a so-called bullet from above and behind. Could Liggett have been one of the men who actually helped do the damage to the head .The JFK casket was to have been taken out to sea but if that was just an empty casket then why would they have taken it out to sea , other than to just say that he was laid to rest at sea. Maybe JFK's body is not in the grave at Arlington . I know this sounds far fetched but with everything involved in this case , there is nothing that would surprise me. A lookalike could be at Arlington and JFK could have been laid to rest at the bottom of the sea.
I have not see what I consider for a look alike Also I am not sure why that would be necessary All you needed to do was is make a new lid for the gaping hole in the back of the head and then saw out a new opening in the top of the head and the strange v shaped incision at the right front and voila But as you say, considering all the strangeness in general, maybe nothing should be off the table
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From the "Howard Brennan, the unwrinkled bus transfer,..." thread.:
Objection, yer Honor.....leading the witness!
Mr. Jenner - Your Honor, I'll rephrase the question..... he volunteered the picture of whom? Who were included in
the image?
(http://jfkforum.com/images/ThomasAbsalomBledsoe1930census.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/ThomasAbsalomGermanSon1919marriage.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/ThomasAbsalomGermanSon1919AdelaideSenterSSapp.jpg)
Uhhh....Rob? Take your gameboy and go play in the other room for a while and let the adults relate in the facts based universe.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/ThomasAbsalomGermanySonJewell1958.jpg)
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20316-rd-matthews-from-steve-thomas/
.........
A recently deceased friend, Dallas Attorney Spider Bynum lived across the street
from R.D. Matthews' mother and more or less took care of her in her late years
and kept in touch with R.D. , always by telephone. He flew into Dallas on a
private airplane at 2:10 a.m. the following day after his mother's death, met
with the funeral director at Love Field, completed his business and flew back
to Las Vegas a few hours later.
Spider tried on many occasions to ascertain what R.D. was so frightened of in
Dallas, but he refused to talk about it. I do know Spider, who did a lot of
legal work for the Campisi family and offered to accompany Joe ( Joseph) Campisi
to Washington when he was called to test ify before the House Select Committee
on Assassinations . Joe told him it was not necessary, but if R.D. Matthews was
called, he sure might need him and may never see Dallas again.
Spider swore to the day he died, R.D. Matthews was somehow involved in Kennedy's
assassination, I guess we will never know now.
Funny how evil people live so damn long---------------- "
Matthew's mother's 2002 findagrave link: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/6382620
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/jfk9/hscv9c.htm#matthews
Tim, just in case you are wondering about the relevance.....Adelaide Germany, head of household in the 1930 US Census
image was the ex-wife of Jewell Ralston Germany. This is an image of the death certificate of Jewell Ralston Germany, Sr's
big brother. (Jewell R Germany, Sr. was the uncle of both Mary Germany Bledsoe and RD Matthews) :
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JohnWarrenGermany1938.jpg)
The 1880 Kentucky U.S. census (http://jfkforum.com/images/JohnLiggettDorothyDayPickWinfreygrandfatherRLwinfrey1880.jpg) indicates John Liggett victim Dorothy Day Peck was
the second cousin of HC Winfrey. Winfrey's father and Dorothy's mother's father
were brothers, William Osley Winfrey and Richard Lee Winfrey.:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=117829&relPageId=4&search=winfrey
(http://jfkforum.com/images/JohnLiggettHcWinfreyRDmatthews1965.jpg)
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http://Spartacus-educational.com/JFKtippet.htm
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J.D. Tippit bore a remarkable resemblance to President Kennedy, so much that his friends in the Dallas Police Department used to rib him and call him 'Jack' and JFK . Ricky White whose Dad Roscoe White was said to be a possible shooter from the knoll. When John Liggett is called to go to Parkland Hospital after being told that JFK was assassinated and of course we know that J.D. Tippit was also killed . Could Tippit have been the JFK lookalike that Liggett would be working on to make the wounds on Tippit look l more like the shots had come from above and behind like the 6th floor window at the TSBD. J.D. Tippit had sustained several wounds but one wound in particular was a wound to the right temple which is also where JFK had been shot. Tippit was processed through 2 hospitals within 2 hrs. and was never seen again by kith or kin. Tippit was buried in a sealed coffin the next day Saturday the 23rd of November . I often wondered why JFK, LHO, and Tippit were buried so soon ! JFK , killed on Friday the 22nd of Nov. and buried the following Monday the 25th of Nov. , and of course LHO was killed on Sunday the 24th of Nov. and buried on the 25th of Nov. ! Maybe we can figure out why there was such a rush to get these 3 people in the ground so quick. Roscoe Whites diary also said that Roscoe had killed Tippit . A Lee Harvey Oswald lookalike was with Roscoe White when White (who had changed out of his police uniform) supposidly shot Tippit. Roscoe was said to have been a "Contract man" for the CIA.
https://redice.tv/news/the-ultimate-jfk-Secret-who-is-really-buried-in-arlington
spartacus-educational.com/JFKwhiteR.htm#source-section3
http:Spartacus-educational.com/JFKtippet.htm
Not sure why they spelled Tippit with an e (tippet) but the site comes up !
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Mike I do think there is evidence that they did have two brains, though one description of one of the brains claimed it had signs that it was an older brain but that was just one opinion
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J.D. Tippit bore a remarkable resemblance to President Kennedy, so much that his friends in the Dallas Police Department used to rib him and call him 'Jack' and JFK . Ricky White whose Dad Roscoe White was said to be a possible shooter from the knoll. When John Liggett is called to go to Parkland Hospital after being told that JFK was assassinated and of course we know that J.D. Tippit was also killed . Could Tippit have been the JFK lookalike that Liggett would be working on to make the wounds on Tippit look l more like the shots had come from above and behind like the 6th floor window at the TSBD. J.D. Tippit had sustained several wounds but one wound in particular was a wound to the right temple which is also where JFK had been shot. Tippit was processed through 2 hospitals within 2 hrs. and was never seen again by kith or kin. Tippit was buried in a sealed coffin the next day Saturday the 23rd of November . I often wondered why JFK, LHO, and Tippit were buried so soon ! JFK , killed on Friday the 22nd of Nov. and buried the following Monday the 25th of Nov. , and of course LHO was killed on Sunday the 24th of Nov. and buried on the 25th of Nov. ! Maybe we can figure out why there was such a rush to get these 3 people in the ground so quick. Roscoe Whites diary also said that Roscoe had killed Tippit . A Lee Harvey Oswald lookalike was with Roscoe White when White (who had changed out of his police uniform) supposidly shot Tippit. Roscoe was said to have been a "Contract man" for the CIA.
https://redice.tv/news/the-ultimate-jfk-Secret-who-is-really-buried-in-arlington
spartacus-educational.com/JFKwhiteR.htm#source-section3
http:Spartacus-educational.com/JFKtippet.htm
Not sure why they spelled Tippit with an e (tippet) but the site comes up !
Interesting video, Mike.
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News report of John Liggett's death:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettJohnShot021475.jpg)
The 1972 arson murders crimes were never solved.:
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LiggettPeckPayneStrattonHall033074.jpg)
On another forum a researcher of John Liggett asked a good question.... why did DPD show Dorothy Peck a photo of Liggett after an attempt
on her life which included beating, arson of her bedroom assumed intended to conceal evidence of her murder, but not intending to look like coincidental accidental death attributed to unassisted house fire. Consider also that Dorothy's car was stolen and soon found burning and abandoned. The attempted murderer and arsonist actually drew seemingly accelerated attention by setting Dorothy's car on fire vs. abandoning it more discreetly.
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John Liggett had the reputation of being one of the best embalmers in reconstructing the faces of those who had suffered serious damage before they died, gunshots etc Lois Liggett felt her Husband, John Liggett, was involved in doing something with JFK's body It was also reported that Liggett seems to have come into a lot of money after the assassination
Jay Bert Peck, was LBJ cousin, and supposedly looked and sounded a lot like LBJ Much was made that Jay Bert Peck stood in for LBJ during an event Nov 21 while LBJ was supposedly at the Murchison get together J. Bert Peck?s known role as an ?LBJ Stand-in,? appeared in the People section of Time magazine, in the edition dated August 2, 1968,.(a similar article appeared in Newsweek three days later):
Jay Bert Peck was found shot on the evening of Friday, July 4, 1969, and died the next day. According to his obituary in the Garland Texas News on Sunday, July 6, 1969, he had achieved considerable fame, having appeared on the Johnny Carson television show as well as the movie referenced above. More details on Peck's murder seem hard to come by
On March 27 John Liggett is arrested for the attempted murder of Jay Bert Peck's wife, Dorothy, who later dies from her injuries
Yes it is circumstantial but seems unlikely to be pure coincidence
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/11/no_author/lbjs-look-alike-cousin/
http://dperry1943.com/liggett.html
It's probably just a coincidence, but the man who, in 1982, killed "Popov's Mole" -- and Hoover Institution's Josef Stalin scholar -- Edward Ellis Smith in a hit-and-run accident was one Charles Peck.
-- MWT ;)
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I located a yearbook picture of Malcom Liggett's wife, Suzanne LaPaugh Liggett, at Binghamton University ( Harper College). Library staff would not send me a picture of the yearbook photo. Here is the photo you mentioned... on the left are Susanne and Malcolm Liggett, it is alleged.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3UTg4x8LzLE/WUK3glwBShI/AAAAAAAA9Zg/f9mZzU2bXi8dEURvOj-Oasa0fZNVVXy-gCLcBGAs/s1600/Carousel%2Bphoto.jpg
Michael, I finally found and will soon post Suzanne's 1957 Milne High School yearbook photo. So far, sad to say, I'm not feeling a resemblance. I want to find a photo of Malcolm, as well.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RubyLiggettTheMenWhoKilledKennedy.jpg)
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I located a yearbook picture of Malcom Liggett's wife, Suzanne LaPaugh Liggett, at Binghamton University ( Harper College). Library staff would not send me a picture of the yearbook photo. Here is the photo you mentioned... on the left are Susanne and Malcolm Liggett, it is alleged.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3UTg4x8LzLE/WUK3glwBShI/AAAAAAAA9Zg/f9mZzU2bXi8dEURvOj-Oasa0fZNVVXy-gCLcBGAs/s1600/Carousel%2Bphoto.jpg
Michael, I finally found and will soon post Suzanne's 1957 Milne High School yearbook photo. So far, sad to say, I'm not feeling a resemblance. I want to find a photo of Malcolm, as well.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RubyLiggettTheMenWhoKilledKennedy.jpg)
I'm admittedly "outgunned" as far as analyzing this puzzle. John Iacoletti, isn't it time to tap the talent of our self labeled, ______ forensics "expert"?
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RubyMalcolmHliggett_1946.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RubyLiggettTheMenWhoKilledKennedyCRPmhl.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/MalcolmHughLiggett_1957.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RubyMalcolmHliggett_1957.jpg)
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(http://jfkforum.com/images/RubyLiggettTheMenWhoKilledKennedy.jpg)
versus Suzanne LaPaugh (age 18) and Malcolm Liggett in 1957 (age 27) yearbook photos
(http://jfkforum.com/images/RubyMalcolmSuzanneLiggett1957SM.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/SuzanneLaPaugh.jpg)
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J.D. Tippit bore a remarkable resemblance to President Kennedy
No he didn't. I dont know why people keep thinking that.