JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Mike Orr on May 09, 2018, 11:50:58 PM
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If Jim Leavelle sees Ruby standing there with his gun down by his side, it must have just been right before Ruby raised his gun and shot Oswald. Could Ruby have been a "Manchurian Candidate"? I think that Ruby thought he was going to be praised as the man who killed Oswald who was said to have killed JFK & Tippit . Also in her testimony Ruth Paine thought that Oswald's behavior was very odd and that he did not seem that concerned about the situation that he was in. Ruth thought that Oswald seemed "detached" from the whole situation . Oswald said he shot nobody and that he was a "Patsy" and I think he was just a "Patsy"!
www.youtube.com at the 17:26 time on the video of "The Men Who Killed Kennedy " complete episode 1
(Better Quality Video) The whole video is 51:33 long. At the 17:26 mark is when
Leavelle talks of seeing Ruby with his gun in hand by his side.
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Oswald was a patsy and Ruth Paine knew it !
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It seems odd Ruby would be willing to go to the electric chair for doing what he did. Pointless way to throw ones life away.
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It seems odd Ruby would be willing to go to the electric chair for doing what he did. Pointless way to throw ones life away.
I'm not saying Ruby was one, but in general, don't underestimate just how far fanatics will go.
I do not recall all the details but I saw an interview once with G. Gordon Liddy, who was implicated in Watergate, and he basically said that if he was ordered by a superior to go and stand on a street corner to be shot by a sniper he would do it without hesitation. Go figure
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If Jim Leavelle sees Ruby standing there with his gun down by his side, it must have just been right before Ruby raised his gun and shot Oswald. Could Ruby have been a "Manchurian Candidate"? I think that Ruby thought he was going to be praised as the man who killed Oswald who was said to have killed JFK & Tippit . Also in her testimony Ruth Paine thought that Oswald's behavior was very odd and that he did not seem that concerned about the situation that he was in. Ruth thought that Oswald seemed "detached" from the whole situation . Oswald said he shot nobody and that he was a "Patsy" and I think he was just a "Patsy"!
www.youtube.com at the 17:26 time on the video of "The Men Who Killed Kennedy " complete episode 1
(Better Quality Video) The whole video is 51:33 long. At the 17:26 mark is when
Leavelle talks of seeing Ruby with his gun in hand by his side.
I liked Jim Leavelle. Pleasant personality and he never asked for a single buck for interviews. However...
The film and still photos of Jack Ruby shooting Lee Harvey Oswald don't show Detective Leavelle in a position to see Jack about to shoot the alleged assassin of President Kennedy. Did Big Jim see Ruby in his peripheral vision? Years after 22 November 1963, he claimed to have seen Ruby with the gun "at his side". He said that he tugged at Oswald's trouser waistband in an effort to get him behind him (Leavelle) to prevent an effective shot injuring his prisoner.
The Jack Beers photo--taken a fraction of a second before the more famous Bob Jackson image--shows Ruby with the gun pointed at Lee Oswald and Jim Leavelle looking straight ahead with no expression of alarm on his face.
Jim Leavelle must have been mistaken or his memory was faulty.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50599762062_3599e6571c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2k6k1oJ)
(https://flic.kr/p/2k6k1oJ)
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Forget Leavelle, what does the guy on our right/Oswald's left have to say?
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Forget Leavelle, what does the guy on our right/Oswald's left have to say?
Your comment is not really relevant. The subject is: "Jim Leavelle sees Ruby's gun !"
The photograph taken by Jack Beers a fraction of a second before Ruby fired his revolver. It proves that Detective Jim Leavelle did not see Jack Ruby's gun BEFORE he fired the shot that struck Lee Oswald. The statements by Detective Leavelle--made publicly over the years--were not accurate. Specifically his persistent claim to have observed Ruby holding the revolver at his side before he shot Lee Oswald.
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Your comment is not really relevant. The subject is: "Jim Leavelle sees Ruby's gun !"
The photograph taken by Jack Beers was taken a fraction of a second before Ruby fired his revolver. It proves that Detective Jim Leavelle did not see Jack Ruby's gun BEFORE he fired the shot that struck Lee Oswald. The statements by Detective Leavelle--made publicly over the years--were not accurate. Specifically his persistent claim to have observed Ruby holding the revolver at his side before he shot Lee Oswald.
Agreed.
Long ago.
Thanks.
Just wondered what the other( "honest ") police officer had to say?
He's like the "other thief" at the Crucifixion; no further mention in any other Gospels.
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Agreed.
Long ago.
Thanks.
Just wondered what the other( "honest ") police officer had to say?
He's like the "other thief" at the Crucifixion; no further mention in any other Gospels.
The other detective is L.C. Graves. He was not handcuffed to Lee Harvey Oswald, so his part in the transfer of the alleged assassin from the City jail to the County jail was less significant. Grave's face is obscured by the back of Jack Ruby's head in the Bob Jackson photo that captures the shooting--including Oswald's agony as the bullet penetrates his abdomen. I'd like to know what sort of expression was on Grave's face.
Your allusions to the Christian religion are interesting. A believer?
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The other detective is L.C. Graves. He was not handcuffed to Lee Harvey Oswald, so his part in the transfer of the alleged assassin from the City jail to the Count jail was less significant. Grave's face is obscured by the back of Jack Ruby's head in the Bob Jackson photo that captures the shooting--including Oswald's agony as the bullet penetrates his abdomen. I'd like to know what sort of expression was on Grave's face.
Your allusions to the Christian religion are interesting. A believer?
A believer? In Christianity? Uh, one needn't be a "believer" to make a simile. Or was it a metaphor? An allegory?
But I digress.
To the topic: Leavelle is insignificant. Only his "man in white" persona, complete with "white hat" - and his reaction- made him make the news. Handcuffs mean nothing.
Beers' photo, and L.C. Graves - that's a topic . Of significance. I'm sure there's a thread somewhere.
Who was that "other" thief, anyway?
Questions, questions. I might be a Jesuit. Why? :)
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A believer? In Christianity? Uh, one needn't be a "believer" to make a simile. Or was it a metaphor? An allegory?
But I digress.
To the topic: Leavelle is insignificant. Only his "man in white" persona, complete with "white hat" - and his reaction- made him make the news. Handcuffs mean nothing.
Beers' photo, and L.C. Graves - that's a topic . Of significance. I'm sure there's a thread somewhere.
Who was that "other" thief, anyway?
Questions, questions. I might be a Jesuit. Why? :)
Handcuffs mean nothing.
Leavelle was "tethered" to Lee Oswald: that's something.
Those monochrome pictures are deceiving. Was it a white hat? Leavelle's shirt is white and appears a much lighter shade than the Stetson. Could be a very light-tan colored hat?
The thieves were named Gestas and Dismas.
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Handcuffs mean nothing.
Leavelle was "tethered" to Lee Oswald: that's something.
Those monochrome pictures are deceiving. Was it a white hat? Leavelle's shirt is white and appears a much lighter shade than the Stetson. Could be a very light-tan colored hat?
The thieves were named Gestas and Dismas.
I'm sure they were. In which of the "Gospels" do we learn this? From which Holy Bible? Gee, I didn't start out trying to draw a parallel, but if the sandal, Eisenhower jacket, cross etc. fits,..
But I digress.
It doesn't matter what color Leavelle's clothes really were. ( or that he was tethered)
It's the image, the perception. I did say "man in white" persona.
Odd, that you focused on the "visible" agony of Oswald in the second (later) photo.
As if he were being... that darn parallel thing again.
L.C. was in position to stop Ruby. 57 years later, the faithful discuss ..Leavelle.
Sad. But I won't Baal about it.
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I'm sure they were. In which of the "Gospels" do we learn this? From which Holy Bible? Gee, I didn't start out trying to draw a parallel, but if the sandal, Eisenhower jacket, cross etc. fits,..
But I digress.
It doesn't matter what color Leavelle's clothes really were. ( or that he was tethered)
It's the image, the perception. I did say "man in white" persona.
Odd, that you focused on the "visible" agony of Oswald in the second (later) photo.
As if he were being... that darn parallel thing again.
L.C. was in position to stop Ruby. 57 years later, the faithful discuss ..Leavelle.
Sad. But I won't Baal about it.
Quit the immaterial intellectualizing!
Detective L.C. Graves was in a physical position to block Jack Ruby from shooting Lee Oswald. However, he was looking forward to his destination not towards the journalists, police officers and Jack Ruby--to his left.
Jack Ruby's lunge towards Oswald (to be in "shooting range") occurred so quickly: L.C. Graves did not notice the assassin's assassin about to assassinate the assassin.
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Quit the immaterial intellectualizing!
Detective L.C. Graves was in a physical position to block Jack Ruby from shooting Lee Oswald. However, he was looking forward to his destination not towards the journalists, police officers and Jack Ruby--to his left.
Jack Ruby's lunge towards Oswald (to be in "shooting range") occurred so quickly: L.C. Graves did not notice the assassin's assassin about to assassinate the assassin.
Fair enough.
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In my many years & hours of looking at what witnesses etc said i was amazed at how their statements were full of krapp. Including Leavelle. Now here we have a guy who is the epitome of honesty, yet he has made a statement that is 100% krapp. There is no way that he could have seen Ruby holding a gun. Leavelle is at all times looking towards the approaching car.
I thort that perhaps Graves had seen Ruby holding a gun, & that over the years this factoid had imprinted on Leavelle's memory. But, no, Graves too was looking at the car. So, as i said, most of the statements, especially statements made months or years later, are 99.9% krapp.
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Leavelle's memory of details became greatly enhanced in his later years...
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Just for fun.
(https://i.postimg.cc/XqHF1wxr/gray-values-levealle.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4d217kt7/colorized-lee-harvey-oswald-assassination-by-marinamaral-da40cg5.jpg)