JFK Assassination Forum

JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Mike Orr on April 12, 2018, 12:14:19 AM

Title: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Mike Orr on April 12, 2018, 12:14:19 AM
At the Tippet murder scene is found a wallet . Meanwhile, as Oswald is arrested at the movie theater he refused to identify himself. After searching him , his wallet is retrieved ,containing an ID for Lee H. Oswald and a 2nd ID for the Alek Hidell alias . Back at the Tippet murder scene , a wallet is in the hands of Dallas Police Captain W. R. Westbrook. FBI agent Robert M. Barrett appears and is asked by Westbrook if he knows who Lee Oswald or Alek Hidell is.  The arrest wallet ( from Oswald at the Texas Theater) and the second wallet from the Tippet murder scene are separated for a time, with the arrest wallet going to Washington with the "2nd" wallet ending up in Captain Fritz's desk drawer where it remained until November 27th. It is eventually sent to FBI headquarters in DC, but they forgot to photograph it and the contents. A formal request to the FBI to provide photographs of it is ignored.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 12, 2018, 03:04:11 AM
 Great topic And of course this habit of perfect evidence just be magically being left at the crime seems absurd in the first place Gullibility rules
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 12, 2018, 05:06:21 AM
http://jfkfacts.org/oswalds-wallet-planted-at-the-tippit-crime-scene/

 That does not seem like no evidence
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Tim Nickerson on April 12, 2018, 05:38:29 AM
http://jfkfacts.org/oswalds-wallet-planted-at-the-tippit-crime-scene/

 That does not seem like no evidence

Matt, Dale Myers wrote a piece on the wallet found at the Tippit scene. You should seek it out. There are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time or in the months and year following the assassination that mention Oswald's wallet being found at the scene of the Tippit shooting. Barrett himself never referred to it in any of his FD-302s.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Richard Smith on April 12, 2018, 01:45:45 PM
If you give it more than one second of thought, you will realize that there is no reason for the DPD to suppress an Oswald wallet found at the Tippit murder scene.  And every reason to confirm it.  It would have been great evidence against Oswald in Tippit's murder.  I've never heard any CTer explain why they believe the DPD would have suppressed Oswald's wallet given its obvious probative value in linking Oswald to that crime.  Even if you believe it was planted, there is no good explanation for why the DPD or someone would have gone to the trouble of planting the wallet but then suppress it.  And the first thing anyone would have done at the crime scene is radio the identity of the person's wallet found there as that is the likely suspect.  Didn't happen.  Logic dictates it's not Oswald's wallet they are looking at.  The irony here is that CTers are basically implying the DPD suppressed fantastic evidence of Oswald's guilt when framing him.  It's absurd. 
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 12, 2018, 02:01:33 PM
 Richard just try to imagine a situation where powerful people institutions have virtually no checks to their authority Is it that hard to imagine they would create multiple scenarios and evidence that they can then choose to manipulate in a manner of their choosing In other words, if they had needed the evidence of a wallet at the Tippet murder if Oswald live then maybe we would have seen a different version of events Just for the record I like  to discuss evidence.  But you seem to want to go to the land of mind reading so I am trying to accommodate

 PS any comments from anyone that yet another Oswald wallet was found by the cops at his residence after the assassination
 I saw McAdams get all worked up claiming most people have two wallets I guess we do not have anything more than anecdotal opinions on that one. Maybe I will start asking some friends, though questions about peoples wallet habits are not likely to go over well
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Richard Smith on April 12, 2018, 02:11:13 PM
Richard just try to imagine a situation where powerful people institutions have virtually no checks to their authority Is it that hard to imagine they would create multiple scenarios and evidence that they can then choose to manipulate in a manner of their choosing In other words, if they had needed the evidence of a wallet at the Tippet murder if Oswald live then maybe we would have seen a different version of events Just for the record I like  to discuss evidence.  But you seem to want to go to the land of mind reading so I am trying to accommodate

 PS any comments from anyone that yet another Oswald wallet was found by the cops at his residence after the assassination
 I saw McAdams get all worked up claiming most people have two wallets I guess we do not have anything more than anecdotal opinions on that one. Maybe I will start asking some friends, though questions about peoples wallet habits are not likely to go over well

This is simple.  If an Oswald wallet were found at the Tippit murder scene, explain to us why these "powerful people" in charge of that evidence (who you apparently believe were framing him) would suppress that wallet with its obvious probative value in connecting Oswald to the Tippit murder.   Why would they plant such a wallet but then suppress it?  It would have been fantastic evidence against Oswald.  Second only to finding his rifle on the 6th floor.  But here you ask us to believe the wallet was planted but then later suppressed.  It defies any logical narrative interpretation of events.  This isn't "mind reading" but simply trying to understand the motives behind what you are suggesting happened.  If it makes no sense, then it is likely your scenario is nonsense.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 12, 2018, 02:29:54 PM
Matt, Dale Myers wrote a piece on the wallet found at the Tippit scene. You should seek it out. There are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time or in the months and year following the assassination that mention Oswald's wallet being found at the scene of the Tippit shooting. Barrett himself never referred to it in any of his FD-302s.

There are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time or in the months and year following the assassination that mention Oswald's wallet being found at the scene of the Tippit shooting. Barrett himself never referred to it in any of his FD-302s.

This is amazing!!..... I'm in full agreement with Tim Nickerson.     Tim, did you write the above? You're absolutely right.... 

There was no wallet connected to Lee Oswald found at the Tippit murder scene.   The film of a cop holding a wallet was NOT filmed on 10th street.  There is a 1961 Chevy in the background, and that car was in the parking lot behind Ballew's Texaco Station.  Obviously that wallet appeared at the scene where a white jacket was found. ( Was the wallet in the pocket of that Jacket?  Did it identify the owner of the jacket??) 
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 12, 2018, 02:59:18 PM
 Walt I am just trying to understand The picture is of Captain Westbrook? He was at the scene of the Tippet shooting?
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 12, 2018, 03:05:46 PM
Richard Smith said

 I've never heard any CTer explain why they believe the DPD would have suppressed Oswald's wallet given its obvious probative value in linking Oswald to that crime.


 Matt relies

 I just did What part of contingencies for multiple scenarios that you are not understanding? do you have a link to the photo you say shows a background from a different street

Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 12, 2018, 03:07:01 PM
Walt I am just trying to understand The picture is of Captain Westbrook? He was at the scene of the Tippet shooting?

Was Westbrook in the alley behind Ballew's Texaco??
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 12, 2018, 03:25:04 PM
Was Westbrook in the alley behind Ballew's Texaco??

 I don't know You may know more on this than i do My questions were an attempt to try to get an insight on those understandings
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Richard Smith on April 12, 2018, 03:54:07 PM
Richard Smith said

 I've never heard any CTer explain why they believe the DPD would have suppressed Oswald's wallet given its obvious probative value in linking Oswald to that crime.


 Matt relies

 I just did What part of contingencies for multiple scenarios that you are not understanding? do you have a link to the photo you say shows a background from a different street


"Contingencies for multiple scenarios" is not an explanation of anything.  That is just meaningless gibberish.  Why would someone plant Oswald's wallet at the Tippit scene and then suppress it?  Do you agree, for example, that finding Oswald's wallet at the Tippit murder scene would have been great evidence to link him to that crime?  In fact, that would be the apparent purpose for anyone to have planted it there.  And if these "powerful" people in charge of the evidence had the ability to suppress a wallet, it would have been Oswald's arrest wallet they suppressed and the official story would have been that Oswald dropped his wallet in the confusion during his murder of Tippit.  Thereby establishing an iron clad link from Oswald to the Tippit murder.  Anyone who believes Oswald guilty of the Tippit murder would be delighted with confirmation that his wallet was found there.  Sadly, it was not.   And how do you explain whoever first found the alleged wallet not radioing out the identity of the person who the wallet belonged?  Any police officer that found such a wallet at the crime scene would immediately have linked it to the missing suspect and relayed that information to the dispatcher to be on the lookout for that person.  We know that didn't happen. 
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 12, 2018, 05:32:05 PM
"Contingencies for multiple scenarios" is not an explanation of anything.  That is just meaningless gibberish.  Why would someone plant Oswald's wallet at the Tippit scene and then suppress it?  Do you agree, for example, that finding Oswald's wallet at the Tippit murder scene would have been great evidence to link him to that crime?  In fact, that would be the apparent purpose for anyone to have planted it there.  And if these "powerful" people in charge of the evidence had the ability to suppress a wallet, it would have been Oswald's arrest wallet they suppressed and the official story would have been that Oswald dropped his wallet in the confusion during his murder of Tippit.  Thereby establishing an iron clad link from Oswald to the Tippit murder.  Anyone who believes Oswald guilty of the Tippit murder would be delighted with confirmation that his wallet was found there.  Sadly, it was not.   And how do you explain whoever first found the alleged wallet not radioing out the identity of the person who the wallet belonged?  Any police officer that found such a wallet at the crime scene would immediately have linked it to the missing suspect and relayed that information to the dispatcher to be on the lookout for that person.  We know that didn't happen.

 It's pretty simple all you have do is to imagine, or except in the abstract, that groups of people can or do conspire, yep I am going to use the forbidden term, to commit crime or intelligence operations Certainly you are not going to suggest that our own intelligence agencies do not plan for contingencies?

 Walt I did my best to search online for anything resembling the picture you are referring to Not much more I can do to address your claim
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Martin Weidmann on April 12, 2018, 09:21:41 PM
Matt, Dale Myers wrote a piece on the wallet found at the Tippit scene. You should seek it out. There are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time or in the months and year following the assassination that mention Oswald's wallet being found at the scene of the Tippit shooting. Barrett himself never referred to it in any of his FD-302s.

There are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time or in the months and year following the assassination that mention Oswald's wallet being found at the scene of the Tippit shooting.

True, but there also are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time about the Hidell ID allegedly found in the wallet that Paul Bentley took from Oswald in the car.

So where does that leave us?
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 12, 2018, 09:23:26 PM
Matt, Dale Myers wrote a piece on the wallet found at the Tippit scene. You should seek it out. There are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time or in the months and year following the assassination that mention Oswald's wallet being found at the scene of the Tippit shooting. Barrett himself never referred to it in any of his FD-302s.

Just like Bardwell Odum never mentioned in any FD-302 that Tomlinson and Wright told him CE 399 looked like the stretcher bullet.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Martin Weidmann on April 12, 2018, 09:24:36 PM
"Contingencies for multiple scenarios" is not an explanation of anything.  That is just meaningless gibberish.  Why would someone plant Oswald's wallet at the Tippit scene and then suppress it?  Do you agree, for example, that finding Oswald's wallet at the Tippit murder scene would have been great evidence to link him to that crime?  In fact, that would be the apparent purpose for anyone to have planted it there.  And if these "powerful" people in charge of the evidence had the ability to suppress a wallet, it would have been Oswald's arrest wallet they suppressed and the official story would have been that Oswald dropped his wallet in the confusion during his murder of Tippit.  Thereby establishing an iron clad link from Oswald to the Tippit murder.  Anyone who believes Oswald guilty of the Tippit murder would be delighted with confirmation that his wallet was found there.  Sadly, it was not.   And how do you explain whoever first found the alleged wallet not radioing out the identity of the person who the wallet belonged?  Any police officer that found such a wallet at the crime scene would immediately have linked it to the missing suspect and relayed that information to the dispatcher to be on the lookout for that person.  We know that didn't happen.

And how do you explain whoever first found the alleged wallet not radioing out the identity of the person who the wallet belonged?  Any police officer that found such a wallet at the crime scene would immediately have linked it to the missing suspect and relayed that information to the dispatcher to be on the lookout for that person.  We know that didn't happen.

And how exactly do we know that didn't happen?

Please don't give me the "it's not in the radio recordings and transcripts" crap, because you can not substantiate their veracity either.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 12, 2018, 09:26:15 PM
PS any comments from anyone that yet another Oswald wallet was found by the cops at his residence after the assassination
 I saw McAdams get all worked up claiming most people have two wallets I guess we do not have anything more than anecdotal opinions on that one. Maybe I will start asking some friends, though questions about peoples wallet habits are not likely to go over well

I've never had more than one wallet at a time.  But we're somehow supposed to believe that Oswald had not two, but five of them.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 12, 2018, 09:40:36 PM
Walt, in the wallet video, @4:03, the officer running is passing a Chevy on 10th?

In my book that's a 60 Impala Cabrio.

The cop is running beside a 1960 Impala convertible.....At 1:39 and at 2:49  The tail lights of a light colored 1961 Chevrolet can be seen in the background behind the wallet in the cops hand.   That 1961 Chevy was parked in the parking lot behind Ballew's Texaco Station.  The 1961 Chevy was parked in the parking space to the right of the 1954 Oldsmobile that they claimed the white Jacket was found beneath. 

A person may have to be an old car buff like me to recognize the difference in the tail ights..... The 1960 Cheyy Impala had three lights  side by side on each side of the rear .....They were mounted on a sheet of machine finished aluminum..above the bumper and beneath the deck lid.

The 1961 Chevy was similar but definitely different....in that the machined aluminum had been deleted and the red lens were beehive shaped....as seen in the background behind the wallet....
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Tim Nickerson on April 13, 2018, 02:27:02 AM
There are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time or in the months and year following the assassination that mention Oswald's wallet being found at the scene of the Tippit shooting.

True, but there also are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time about the Hidell ID allegedly found in the wallet that Paul Bentley took from Oswald in the car.

So where does that leave us?

(https://i.imgur.com/8LIkzYG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SRyMwX6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Qq75cZ5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9Wv2pcV.jpg)
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 13, 2018, 03:31:50 PM
You would think that Lee Oswald would know that his half-brother John's last name was not Oswald...
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Martin Weidmann on April 13, 2018, 05:52:53 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8LIkzYG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SRyMwX6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Qq75cZ5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9Wv2pcV.jpg)

Nice.. the interview conducted with Oswald mentioned in the report was done by Gus Rose, who told us so in his WC testimony.

So, where is the first hand report by Gus Rose?

And secondly, Rose told the WC that he had just arrived at work when Oswald was brought in. He claims Oswald told him his name was Hidell. Remarkably, Clemments does not mention that in his report at all!

Rose also claimed he asked Oswald for his name prior to checking the billfold he had been given. He could not say who gave him the billfold or whether it was the patrolman who brought Oswald in or not.

Now remember I said;


True, but there also are no reports from any official or law enforcement officers at the time about the Hidell ID allegedly found in the wallet that Paul Bentley took from Oswald in the car.


So, which wallet was Rose given and which wallet is Clemments talking about? The one taken from Oswald by Bentley (who never said a word about finding or seeing the Hidell ID) or the one found at the Tippit scene that Barett said contained ID's for Oswald and Hidell?
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Tim Nickerson on April 13, 2018, 09:28:55 PM
Nice.. the interview conducted with Oswald mentioned in the report was done by Gus Rose, who told us so in his WC testimony.

So, where is the first hand report by Gus Rose?

And secondly, Rose told the WC that he had just arrived at work when Oswald was brought in. He claims Oswald told him his name was Hidell. Remarkably, Clemments does not mention that in his report at all!

Rose also claimed he asked Oswald for his name prior to checking the billfold he had been given. He could not say who gave him the billfold or whether it was the patrolman who brought Oswald in or not.

Now remember I said;

So, which wallet was Rose given and which wallet is Clemments talking about? The one taken from Oswald by Bentley (who never said a word about finding or seeing the Hidell ID) or the one found at the Tippit scene that Barett said contained ID's for Oswald and Hidell?

Excuse me but the the interview conducted with Oswald mentioned in the report was done by Manning Clements, who told us so in his WC testimony.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Martin Weidmann on April 13, 2018, 09:45:19 PM
Excuse me but the the interview conducted with Oswald mentioned in the report was done by Manning Clements, who told us so in his WC testimony.

Thanks Tim... I missed that. In his testimony Clements tells us he interviewed Oswald at 10 pm which is hours after Gus Rose talked to him. When Oswald was taken to a line up, Clements examined the content of a wallet that had been identified to him as Oswald's wallet.

So the questions I asked are still valid.

Where is the first hand report of Gus Rose, who, according to his WC testimony, was the first person to talk to Oswald about the Hidell alias?

And how does Clements and/or Rose know that the wallet they had was in fact the wallet taken from Oswald by Bentley?
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Tim Nickerson on April 13, 2018, 10:11:30 PM
Thanks Tim... I missed that. In his testimony Clements tells us he interviewed Oswald at 10 pm which is hours after Gus Rose talked to him. When Oswald was taken to a line up, Clements examined the content of a wallet that had been identified to him as Oswald's wallet.

So the questions I asked are still valid.

Where is the first hand report of Gus Rose, who, according to his WC testimony, was the first person to talk to Oswald about the Hidell alias?

Rose said he talked with Oswald for a few minutes. Was it standard procedure for DPD officers to write up reports on short conversations they had with suspects?

Quote
And how does Clements and/or Rose know that the wallet they had was in fact the wallet taken from Oswald by Bentley?

I don't know that Clements or Rose knew who it was that removed the wallet from Oswald's possession. I'm unaware of any other wallet of Oswald's that the DPD had possession of that day that contained identification in the name of Hidell.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Martin Weidmann on April 13, 2018, 10:47:32 PM
Rose said he talked with Oswald for a few minutes. Was it standard procedure for DPD officers to write up reports on short conversations they had with suspects?

I don't know that Clements or Rose knew who it was that removed the wallet from Oswald's possession. I'm unaware of any other wallet of Oswald's that the DPD had possession of that day that contained identification in the name of Hidell.

Rose said he talked with Oswald for a few minutes. Was it standard procedure for DPD officers to write up reports on short conversations they had with suspects?

I have no idea. Perhaps not, but since he claimed, months later, that Oswald used a false name to identify himself with, it would perhaps have been a good idea to mention it in the report he did write about his other activities that day.

I don't know that Clements or Rose knew who it was that removed the wallet from Oswald's possession.

I did not ask that. Rose told us he was given a wallet by an officer and Clements merely said in his testimony that the wallet was identified to him as Oswald's wallet. So, it's pretty clear that neither Rose or Clements knew where the wallet came from.

I'm unaware of any other wallet of Oswald's that the DPD had possession of that day that contained identification in the name of Hidell.

Bentley (nor any officer in the car) mentioned the Hidell ID card being found in Oswald wallet during the trip to the police station.

On the other hand, Barrett claims that Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell while holding a wallet at the Tippit scene.

So, when you say you only know of one wallet the DPD had that contained the Hidell identification, which wallet do you mean exactly?

Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Mike Orr on April 15, 2018, 02:45:10 AM
    As per      jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2014/03/solving-tippit-murders-wallet-mystery.html   By Dale K. Myers                       
   
     The wallet seen in the WFAA-TV news film is similar in style to Oswald's arrest wallet, however, they are clearly not identical- period . It's not even close. In particular, the newsfilm wallet has a leather flap that is square, while Oswald's arrest wallet flap is rounded. In addition, the news film wallet is obviously thinner and more worn than Oswald's arrest wallet. Kenneth H. Croy told me in 2009 that the wallet turned over to him at the Tippit shooting scene had 7 or so identification cards in it and that none were in the name of Oswald . ( Then who's wallet was it ?) Why then did Croy think the wallet was Oswald's ??? Croys belief that the wallet was Oswald's was based on an assumption that Tippit's killer dropped the wallet, and that since Oswald was later arrested for Tippit's murder, the wallet must have been his . Croy told me that he had no first hand knowledge that the wallet contained anything that connected it to suspect Oswald. In the end , only one thing is certain-- the wallet filmed at the scene by WFAA_TV cameraman Ron Reiland is " NOT " the wallet taken from from Oswalds pocket after his arrest. FBI agent Robert Barrett did not know how police got the wallet or where it was found. His recollection was that Captain Westbrook was holding a wallet while at the scene and asked him (Barrett), who had learned Oswalds wallet contained two names-- Oswald and Hidell. Was this what Barrett was recalling ? Barrett says no.

FBI agent Barrett was known by fellow agents as being one who put meticulous details in his reports. Barretts contemporary report of his activities on November 22,1963 , fails to mention the wallet , as does his 1975 testimony to the Senate intelligence Committee during which he recounted his activities that day. Both Barrett and Croy's recollections are based on 30 to 40 year old memories . None of their contemporary reports or testimony mention the recovery of Oswald's wallet --- a highly curious oversight given the significance both men now attach to the discovery.

So the wallet at Tippits murder site contained 7 or so identification cards in it but since none of the ID.s had the name of Oswald on them then that wallet was treated like there was no way that it could belong to Tippit's killer so it was just treated as a wallet that was found at the scene of Tippit's MURDER .   Who's Wallet was found at Tippit's MURDER scene ?????????? It sure wasn't Oswald's ?????
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Martin Weidmann on April 15, 2018, 08:57:16 AM
    As per      jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2014/03/solving-tippit-murders-wallet-mystery.html   By Dale K. Myers                       
   
     The wallet seen in the WFAA-TV news film is similar in style to Oswald's arrest wallet, however, they are clearly not identical- period . It's not even close. In particular, the newsfilm wallet has a leather flap that is square, while Oswald's arrest wallet flap is rounded. In addition, the news film wallet is obviously thinner and more worn than Oswald's arrest wallet. Kenneth H. Croy told me in 2009 that the wallet turned over to him at the Tippit shooting scene had 7 or so identification cards in it and that none were in the name of Oswald . ( Then who's wallet was it ?) Why then did Croy think the wallet was Oswald's ??? Croys belief that the wallet was Oswald's was based on an assumption that Tippit's killer dropped the wallet, and that since Oswald was later arrested for Tippit's murder, the wallet must have been his . Croy told me that he had no first hand knowledge that the wallet contained anything that connected it to suspect Oswald. In the end , only one thing is certain-- the wallet filmed at the scene by WFAA_TV cameraman Ron Reiland is " NOT " the wallet taken from from Oswalds pocket after his arrest. FBI agent Robert Barrett did not know how police got the wallet or where it was found. His recollection was that Captain Westbrook was holding a wallet while at the scene and asked him (Barrett), who had learned Oswalds wallet contained two names-- Oswald and Hidell. Was this what Barrett was recalling ? Barrett says no.

FBI agent Barrett was known by fellow agents as being one who put meticulous details in his reports. Barretts contemporary report of his activities on November 22,1963 , fails to mention the wallet , as does his 1975 testimony to the Senate intelligence Committee during which he recounted his activities that day. Both Barrett and Croy's recollections are based on 30 to 40 year old memories . None of their contemporary reports or testimony mention the recovery of Oswald's wallet --- a highly curious oversight given the significance both men now attach to the discovery.

So the wallet at Tippits murder site contained 7 or so identification cards in it but since none of the ID.s had the name of Oswald on them then that wallet was treated like there was no way that it could belong to Tippit's killer so it was just treated as a wallet that was found at the scene of Tippit's MURDER .   Who's Wallet was found at Tippit's MURDER scene ?????????? It sure wasn't Oswald's ?????


Both Barrett and Croy's recollections are based on 30 to 40 year old memories .

That may be, but why does Myers, on the one hand, accept Croy's recollection that there were 7 ID cards in the wallet with allegedly none in Oswald's name and, on the other hand, dismiss Barrett's recollection that Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell?

It's seems Myers is cherry-picking!

None of their contemporary reports or testimony mention the recovery of Oswald's wallet --- a highly curious oversight given the significance both men now attach to the discovery.

As far as I know, Croy never filed any report about anything and Barrett never actually found or handled the wallet. He was just asked a question about two names. Since when do questions being asked have to be mentioned in reports? Gus Rose, who did talk to Oswald and handled a wallet containing the Hidell ID never mentioned it in his report about his activities that day.

The wallet seen in the WFAA-TV news film is similar in style to Oswald's arrest wallet

That may well be, but how do we know the wallet now in the National Archives is actually "Oswald's arrest wallet"? And, comparing wallets doesn't tell us anything about their content.

Barrett claims Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell, which - if true - indicated those ID's were in the wallet. Paul Bentley, who allegedly took Oswald's wallet from him in the car, said on television the next day that he believed it contained a drivers license and a credit card. He does not mention the Hidell ID at all. In fact, none of the officers in the car, said anything about the Hidell alias in their reports, which is (to quote Myers) "a highly curious oversight".

Myers opinion is just that.... an opinion, and it seems a highly speculative one at that.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 15, 2018, 02:16:04 PM

Both Barrett and Croy's recollections are based on 30 to 40 year old memories .

That may be, but why does Myers, on the one hand, accept Croy's recollection that there were 7 ID cards in the wallet with allegedly none in Oswald's name and, on the other hand, dismiss Barrett's recollection that Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell?

It's seems Myers is cherry-picking!

None of their contemporary reports or testimony mention the recovery of Oswald's wallet --- a highly curious oversight given the significance both men now attach to the discovery.

As far as I know, Croy never filed any report about anything and Barrett never actually found or handled the wallet. He was just asked a question about two names. Since when do questions being asked have to be mentioned in reports? Gus Rose, who did talk to Oswald and handled a wallet containing the Hidell ID never mentioned it in his report about his activities that day.

The wallet seen in the WFAA-TV news film is similar in style to Oswald's arrest wallet

That may well be, but how do we know the wallet now in the National Archives is actually "Oswald's arrest wallet"? And, comparing wallets doesn't tell us anything about their content.

Barrett claims Westbrook asked him about Oswald and Hidell, which - if true - indicated those ID's were in the wallet. Paul Bentley, who allegedly took Oswald's wallet from him in the car, said on television the next day that he believed it contained a drivers license and a credit card. He does not mention the Hidell ID at all. In fact, none of the officers in the car, said anything about the Hidell alias in their reports, which is (to quote Myers) "a highly curious oversight".

Myers opinion is just that.... an opinion, and it seems a highly speculative one at that.

I believe the wallet was in the pocket of the white jacket.....   Which means that the cops knew the jacket did not belong to Lee Oswald...    But they desperately needed a link between Tippit and the man who ran in the direction of the Texas Theater so they refused to admit that they knew the Jacket was not Lee Oswalds.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 15, 2018, 02:35:11 PM
The cop is running beside a 1960 Impala convertible.....At 1:39 and at 2:49  The tail lights of a light colored 1961 Chevrolet can be seen in the background behind the wallet in the cops hand.   That 1961 Chevy was parked in the parking lot behind Ballew's Texaco Station.  The 1961 Chevy was parked in the parking space to the right of the 1954 Oldsmobile that they claimed the white Jacket was found beneath. 

A person may have to be an old car buff like me to recognize the difference in the tail ights..... The 1960 Cheyy Impala had three lights  side by side on each side of the rear .....They were mounted on a sheet of machine finished aluminum..above the bumper and beneath the deck lid.

The 1961 Chevy was similar but definitely different....in that the machined aluminum had been deleted and the red lens were beehive shaped....as seen in the background behind the wallet....

I just read a book that was about a double murder in Nebraska.....   The crime was solved due to the sharp eye of a detective who spotted a tiny detail ( a ring) in a crime scene photo.  ( That small wedding band type ring on the floor  belonged to a young man who was 500 miles away from the murder site and had never been in Nebraska)

Those of you who believe a wallet was found at the scene of Tippit's murder should take the time to learn the difference between the tail lights on the 1960 and 1961 Chevrolet.  The tail lights that can be seen behind the wallet in the cops hand are the tail lights of a 1961 Chevy.  There was no 1961 Chevy near the Tippt murder scene on East 10th street.  That wallet may have been taken to the Tippit murder scene after it was found in the pocket of the white jacket which was found in the parking lot behind Ballew's Texaco Station...and there was a light colored 1961 Chevy parked there in the parking lot beside the Oldsmobile, beneath which they cops claimed the jacket was found.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Richard Smith on April 16, 2018, 03:42:27 PM
It's pretty simple all you have do is to imagine, or except in the abstract, that groups of people can or do conspire, yep I am going to use the forbidden term, to commit crime or intelligence operations Certainly you are not going to suggest that our own intelligence agencies do not plan for contingencies?

 Walt I did my best to search online for anything resembling the picture you are referring to Not much more I can do to address your claim

A contingency plan for what here?  What are you suggesting happened that caused them to change the plan?  That is not an explanation for the sequence of events.  There isn't any rational narrative for these POWERFUL people planting Oswald's wallet at the crime scene (great evidence to link him to the Tippit murder) to suppress it in favor of Oswald's arrest wallet.  Your fantasy conspirators would have known that it was likely that Oswald would have a wallet on him when arrested or killed that day.  So any plan that entails leaving a wallet at the Tippit scene must incorporate the likelihood of a second wallet being on Oswald's person upon his arrest/death and plan to suppress that wallet.  And imagine the plan of actually leaving a wallet at the Tippit scene, allowing it to be discovered, but then suppressing it.  LOL.  That makes no sense as a contingency plan or otherwise.  It is extremely risky and pointless.  If the plan was to frame Oswald for this crime, then all the incentives are to claim that Oswald's wallet was found at the Tippit scene.  Instead what is being suggested is that conspirators behind Oswald's frame up suppressed great evidence of his guilt!  It just doesn't add up that whoever discovered the wallet would not have radioed in the identity of the suspect and that this valuable evidence of Oswald's guilt would for some inexplicable reason then be covered up by the very folks who otherwise are alleged to be framing him.   It's a hodgepodge of nonsense.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 16, 2018, 03:58:27 PM
It's pretty simple all you have do is to imagine, or except in the abstract, that groups of people can or do conspire, yep I am going to use the forbidden term, to commit crime or intelligence operations Certainly you are not going to suggest that our own intelligence agencies do not plan for contingencies?

 Walt I did my best to search online for anything resembling the picture you are referring to Not much more I can do to address your claim

Walt I did my best to search online for anything resembling the picture you are referring to

Did you look at the background behind the wallet at the 4: 12 point in the video you posted?

Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 16, 2018, 07:24:27 PM
A contingency plan for what here?  What are you suggesting happened that caused them to change the plan?  That is not an explanation for the sequence of events.  There isn't any rational narrative for these POWERFUL people planting Oswald's wallet at the crime scene (great evidence to link him to the Tippit murder) to suppress it in favor of Oswald's arrest wallet.  Your fantasy conspirators would have known that it was likely that Oswald would have a wallet on him when arrested or killed that day.  So any plan that entails leaving a wallet at the Tippit scene must incorporate the likelihood of a second wallet being on Oswald's person upon his arrest/death and plan to suppress that wallet.  And imagine the plan of actually leaving a wallet at the Tippit scene, allowing it to be discovered, but then suppressing it.  LOL.  That makes no sense as a contingency plan or otherwise.  It is extremely risky and pointless.  If the plan was to frame Oswald for this crime, then all the incentives are to claim that Oswald's wallet was found at the Tippit scene.  Instead what is being suggested is that conspirators behind Oswald's frame up suppressed great evidence of his guilt!  It just doesn't add up that whoever discovered the wallet would not have radioed in the identity of the suspect and that this valuable evidence of Oswald's guilt would for some inexplicable reason then be covered up by the very folks who otherwise are alleged to be framing him.   It's a hodgepodge of nonsense.

 So I must theorize? How about you comment on what is seemingly a fact, a picture with Oswald's wallet in Westbrook's hand, witness testimony etc. What would it be in the order of things that I need to comment on what exactly went wrong with a plan I have knowledge. It opens the land of pure conjecture and it seems to your favorite form of fantasy land


 I kind of changed my mind and will offer a scenario That being said I am familiar with those who insist on taking to frames of examination such as yours Critics of a particular theory must provide the correct version of all events at the same time Anyway you want a shot at it, I will give you one Lets say the conspirators wanted to frame Oswald, and it was important to them to either capture him or kill him shortly after the assassination Therefore you would want a contingent reason to take him into custody, so you create the circumstances with the Tippit murder until you have him in custody Then once you have him in custody, it may look better to not use the wallet evidence because lets face it it looks a little suspicious for the suspect to seemingly leave his wallet at the scene
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 16, 2018, 07:37:05 PM
Walt I did my best to search online for anything resembling the picture you are referring to

Did you look at the background behind the wallet at the 1: 41 point in the video you posted?


 OK there is a barely recognizable background I have said before I will happily agree that the wallet is seen at the Texaco instead It seems to make little difference in terms of my discussion with Richard and those who want to discount the finding of the wallet Or inform me otherwise please
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 16, 2018, 08:32:49 PM
OK there is a barely recognizable background I have said before I will happily agree that the wallet is seen at the Texaco instead It seems to make little difference in terms of my discussion with Richard and those who want to discount the finding of the wallet Or inform me otherwise please

Matt....Someone has spliced frames from  Weilands video that he took in the alley behind Ballew's Texaco onto a video that was taken at the Tippit murder site in an effort to make it appear the wallet was found at the Tippit site.....
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 16, 2018, 08:36:59 PM
Matt....Someone has spliced frames from  Weilands video that he took in the alley behind Ballew's Texaco onto a video that was taken at the Tippit murder site in an effort to make it appear the wallet was found at the Tippit site.....

 OK Thanks Walt I can't really discern the background in the video portion you cited, but I am happy to take your word for that you and others have looked into it closely
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 16, 2018, 08:55:31 PM
OK Thanks Walt I can't really discern the background in the video portion you cited, but I am happy to take your word for that you and others have looked into it closely

Matt, The clip is seen several times in the video...At the 4:12 point the tail lights of a 1961 Chevy at clearly visible and the cop holding the wallet also has a S&W revolver in his hand.... By the time CSI Detective Pete Barnes arrived at the Tippit site ( Barnes dusting Tippit's car for prints)  Lee Oswald had been taken from the theater and there was no need fro a cop to have his revolver in his hand....However that was not the case at the time the cops converged on the alley behind Ballew's Texaco.   There was a distinct possibility that the fleeing man was still in the area and a cop would want his revolver ready.....
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 16, 2018, 11:30:43 PM
Matt, The clip is seen several times in the video...At the 4:12 point the tail lights of a 1961 Chevy at clearly visible and the cop holding the wallet also has a S&W revolver in his hand.... By the time CSI Detective Pete Barnes arrived at the Tippit site ( Barnes dusting Tippit's car for prints)  Lee Oswald had been taken from the theater and there was no need fro a cop to have his revolver in his hand....However that was not the case at the time the cops converged on the alley behind Ballew's Texaco.   There was a distinct possibility that the fleeing man was still in the area and a cop would want his revolver ready.....

I am not sure where this leaves us If we conclude the background of the photo is altered then we we really have little evidence as to what the actual conditions of the picture, or video of Westbrook holding the wallet It is yet another piece that apparently shows alteration and therefore is inferentialy significant of a cover up Not sure  it gives us much as to where and when the actual photograph was taken
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 17, 2018, 12:50:07 AM
I am not sure where this leaves us If we conclude the background of the photo is altered then we we really have little evidence as to what the actual conditions of the picture, or video of Westbrook holding the wallet It is yet another piece that apparently shows alteration and therefore is inferentialy significant of a cover up Not sure  it gives us much as to where and when the actual photograph was taken

The crux of the matter is:.....The authorities were the criminals....  They framed Lee Oswald.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 17, 2018, 12:58:44 AM
The crux of the matter is:.....The authorities were the criminals....  They framed Lee Oswald.

  Of course

  Richard sees the lack of clear facts as our problem to explain when in facts it shows there is no consistent story to deconstruct Thanks for explaining this
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Mike Orr on April 17, 2018, 04:40:40 AM
We see a wallet at the Tippit murder scene via film and we "hear" that a wallet was taken off of Oswald while in the police car after he is arrested in the Texas Theater. We either have 2 wallets or someone is not telling the truth ! It seems like there was so many instances of situations not adding up ,that keeps this assassination of JFK and the murder of JD Tippit to be believable. I feel like I'm running in a circle trying to figure out what is going on. It all started with a Mauser and has gone down hill ever since !!!!!
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Richard Smith on April 17, 2018, 02:39:20 PM
So I must theorize? How about you comment on what is seemingly a fact, a picture with Oswald's wallet in Westbrook's hand, witness testimony etc. What would it be in the order of things that I need to comment on what exactly went wrong with a plan I have knowledge. It opens the land of pure conjecture and it seems to your favorite form of fantasy land


 I kind of changed my mind and will offer a scenario That being said I am familiar with those who insist on taking to frames of examination such as yours Critics of a particular theory must provide the correct version of all events at the same time Anyway you want a shot at it, I will give you one Lets say the conspirators wanted to frame Oswald, and it was important to them to either capture him or kill him shortly after the assassination Therefore you would want a contingent reason to take him into custody, so you create the circumstances with the Tippit murder until you have him in custody Then once you have him in custody, it may look better to not use the wallet evidence because lets face it it looks a little suspicious for the suspect to seemingly leave his wallet at the scene

Why do you refer to it as Oswald's wallet?  There is no evidence to support that conclusion.  They are looking at something that appears to be a wallet or maybe Tippit's citation book.  But who it belongs too is not apparent from the picture.   To suggest that it is a confirmed "fact" that it belongs to Oswald is nonsense.   You believe the conspirators planned to leave Oswald's wallet at the Tippit murder scene and in fact did leave it but then out of the blue suddenly decided for some unknown reason that it would be suspicious for his wallet to be found there?  Why didn't they reach that conclusion before leaving it?  And they needed a reason other than assassinating a president to have him taken into custody?  And they somehow knew he would encounter and murder Tippit?  Honestly, that is ridiculous. 
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 17, 2018, 03:00:05 PM
Why do you refer to it as Oswald's wallet?  There is no evidence to support that conclusion.  They are looking at something that appears to be a wallet or maybe Tippit's citation book.  But who it belongs too is not apparent from the picture.   To suggest that it is a confirmed "fact" that it belongs to Oswald is nonsense.   You believe the conspirators planned to leave Oswald's wallet at the Tippit murder scene and in fact did leave it but then out of the blue suddenly decided for some unknown reason that it would be suspicious for his wallet to be found there?  Why didn't they reach that conclusion before leaving it?  And they needed a reason other than assassinating a president to have him taken into custody?  And they somehow knew he would encounter and murder Tippit?  Honestly, that is ridiculous.

 Whatever you want to call it is fine with me The wallet in question works. It wasn't meant as a conclusion just a shorthand However lets apply the same standard to the rifle in the snipers nest, the jacket, and anything else
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 17, 2018, 07:41:22 PM
Why do you refer to it as Oswald's wallet?  There is no evidence to support that conclusion.  They are looking at something that appears to be a wallet or maybe Tippit's citation book.  But who it belongs too is not apparent from the picture.   To suggest that it is a confirmed "fact" that it belongs to Oswald is nonsense.   You believe the conspirators planned to leave Oswald's wallet at the Tippit murder scene and in fact did leave it but then out of the blue suddenly decided for some unknown reason that it would be suspicious for his wallet to be found there?  Why didn't they reach that conclusion before leaving it?  And they needed a reason other than assassinating a president to have him taken into custody?  And they somehow knew he would encounter and murder Tippit?  Honestly, that is ridiculous.

If there had been a wallet with Lee Oswald's ID in it at the Tippit Mirder scene the authorities would have broadcast that information from the rooftops.....  The wallet at the murder scene tale didn't surface until decades later.

There definitely was at least one reporter on the scene at the time and it APPEARS?  he was interested enough to film the scene and yet he never reported that Lee Oswald's wallet had been found at the scene.....WHY???

Because there was no wallet found at the site of Tippit's murder.    The video that SEEMS? to show that is a fake....The wallet in the cop's hand was cut from a video that was taken behind Ballew's Texaco Station.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 17, 2018, 08:33:53 PM
If there had been a wallet with Lee Oswald's IS in it at the Tippit Mirder scene the authorities would have broadcast that information from the rooftops.....  The wallet at the murder scene tale didn't surface until decades later.

There definitely was at least one reporter on the scene at the time and it APPEARS?  he was interested enough to film the scene and yet he never reported that Lee Oswald's wallet had been found at the scene.....WHY???

Because there was no wallet found at the site of Tippit's murder.    The video that SEEMS? to show that is a fake....The wallet in the cop's hand was cut from a video that was taken behind Ballew's Texaco Station.


 That seems to make sense. It does still leave open other possibilities For instance we have to trust that the wallet the DPD has in evidence is the real wallet It seems like the most likely scenario that the wallet supposedly found at theater is the real wallet and the  conspirators new roughly the type of wallet LHO had and went to effort to make a facsimile Though there is also a strategy that I think Webster Tarpley mentioned, in terms of the strategies within a conspiracy,, and that is for the conspirators to make as much information as possible a contradiction or confusing in some manner From that perspective it may have made two wallets that just slightly different for that express purpose 


 Mike Orr Really liked your comment for what that is worth To claim to be certain of exactly what happened in circumstances such as this, is not completely rational and objective
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 17, 2018, 11:21:56 PM
In the end , only one thing is certain-- the wallet filmed at the scene by WFAA_TV cameraman Ron Reiland is " NOT " the wallet taken from from Oswalds pocket after his arrest.

I'm not even sure the "the wallet taken from from Oswald's pocket after his arrest" was actually taken from Oswald's pocket after his arrest.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 17, 2018, 11:33:01 PM
Why do you refer to it as Oswald's wallet?  There is no evidence to support that conclusion.  They are looking at something that appears to be a wallet or maybe Tippit's citation book.  But who it belongs too is not apparent from the picture.   To suggest that it is a confirmed "fact" that it belongs to Oswald is nonsense.

Says the guy who thinks it's a confirmed "fact" that the C2766 belonged to Oswald.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 17, 2018, 11:36:58 PM
Matt, The clip is seen several times in the video...At the 4:12 point the tail lights of a 1961 Chevy at clearly visible and the cop holding the wallet also has a S&W revolver in his hand....

(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/taillight.png)

(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/E4JKH2/1961-restored-chevy-impala-tail-lights-E4JKH2.jpg)
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Matt Grantham on April 18, 2018, 01:37:21 AM

 That seems to make sense. It does still leave open other possibilities For instance we have to trust that the wallet the DPD has in evidence is the real wallet It seems like the most likely scenario that the wallet supposedly found at theater is the real wallet and the  conspirators new roughly the type of wallet LHO had and went to the effort to acquire a facsimile Though there is also a strategy that I think Webster Tarpley mentioned, in terms of the strategies within a conspiracy,, and that is for the conspirators to make as much information as possible a contradiction or confusing in some manner From that perspective it may have made two wallets that just slightly different for that express purpose 


 Mike Orr Really liked your comment for what that is worth
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 19, 2018, 12:12:42 AM
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/taillight.png)

(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/E4JKH2/1961-restored-chevy-impala-tail-lights-E4JKH2.jpg)

Thank you for posting the pictures....I don't know if you intended to deceive but the clip which also shows a cop holding a revolver at a time when the revolver should have been back in his holster ( If the frame from that film had been taken at the Tippit murder scene)...But that single clip is deceptive.....  There is a sequence of several frames that clearly show that the taillights in the background behind the wallet are on a 1961 Chevy.....The tail lights on the blue car are on a 1960 Chevy Impala.....
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: John Iacoletti on April 19, 2018, 02:40:30 AM
Thank you for posting the pictures....I don't know if you intended to deceive but the clip which also shows a cop holding a revolver at a time when the revolver should have been back in his holster ( If the frame from that film had been taken at the Tippit murder scene)...But that single clip is deceptive.....  There is a sequence of several frames that clearly show that the taillights in the background behind the wallet are on a 1961 Chevy.....The tail lights on the blue car are on a 1960 Chevy Impala.....

That was the single frame I found that showed the most of the tail lights.  As for the stock photo, I just googled 1961 chevy tail lights.  I wouldn't know one from another.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 19, 2018, 12:59:32 PM
That was the single frame I found that showed the most of the tail lights.  As for the stock photo, I just googled 1961 chevy tail lights.  I wouldn't know one from another.

I just googled 1961 chevy tail lights.  I wouldn't know one from another.

Most folks wouldn't know the difference..... Only an old car buff like me would know the difference.... and the two Car's tail lights  are similar....

I'm certain the portion of the film that seems to show the cop holding the wallet has been spliced into a film that was taken at the Tippit murder site.

And since the film shows Pete Barnes dusting the police car for prints where Markham said the killer had touched the car, the film had to have been made at about the time Lee Oswald was being dragged from the theater.  The crisis was over at that time.....  But the crisis was NOT over at the time the WHITE jacket was found in the parking lot behind Ballew's Texaco station...    The fact that the cop still has his side arm ready in his hand in the clip that shows the tail lights of a 1961 Chevy that was parked next to the Oldsmobile indicates that the area is still dangerous ....... 

PS..... Pete Barnes found good clear finger prints on the police car.....and they were NOT  Lee Oswald's.
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Jerry Freeman on April 28, 2018, 05:34:31 AM
   I've never heard any CTer explain why they believe the DPD would have suppressed Oswald's wallet given its obvious probative value in linking Oswald to that crime. 
I would have called it overkill.
A wedding ring left behind.
Money left on the dresser in yet another wallet?
A white jacket discarded 'en flight'?
Then oops a wallet flew out of a pants pocket?
Or maybe Oswald threw a wallet at Tippit as a coup d gras...take that you dumb cop!
Anyway that statement was seen in the comments section of that jfkfacts article...
Quote
Neil Hodges
April 21, 2014 
Why would the Dallas PD cover up the fact that Oswald?s wallet was found at the scene of Tippit?s murder? Wouldn?t this evidence have clinched the case for Oswald killing one of their own?
Answer...
The case was already clinched enough.
 
 
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 28, 2018, 02:15:59 PM
I would have called it overkill.
A wedding ring left behind.
Money left on the dresser in yet another wallet?
A white jacket discarded 'en flight'?
Then oops a wallet flew out of a pants pocket?
Or maybe Oswald threw a wallet at Tippit as a coup d gras...take that you dumb cop!
Anyway that statement was seen in the comments section of that jfkfacts article...Answer...
The case was already clinched enough.

The case was already clinched enough.

When was the case " already clinched enough."??   Do you recall what Nick Katzenbach said about convincing the public that the arch villain Lee Harrrrvey Ossssswald  was the killer who murdered John Kennedy for no reason at all?
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Jerry Freeman on April 28, 2018, 06:12:54 PM
When was the case clinched ...?
 

Hi Walt.
An insincere statement...just being facetious. 
An airtight case against Oswald was manifested sometime before the shooting ever started.
The Dallas authorities hated Kennedy and was eager to [in any way] pin his murder on a 'communist'.
I had read that out of curiosity, one researcher located four Oswald wallets at the National Archives.
Apparently, there were extra wallets, you know...just in case?
 
Title: Re: 2 wallets for Lee Harvey Oswald alias Alek Hidell
Post by: Walt Cakebread on April 28, 2018, 08:18:14 PM
Hi Walt.
An insincere statement...just being facetious. 
An airtight case against Oswald was manifested sometime before the shooting ever started.
The Dallas authorities hated Kennedy and was eager to [in any way] pin his murder on a 'communist'.
I had read that out of curiosity, one researcher located four Oswald wallets at the National Archives.
Apparently, there were extra wallets, you know...just in case?

Sorry,...  I missed the facetiousness ...... But no harm, no foul.....  It was still an opportunity to illuminate Katzenbach's memo... "We must convince the gullible public that the arch villain, commie, that we have set up to take the blame really is just a lone nut, who just happened to be able to fire a rusty old rifle with the scope mounted askew faster and with greater accuracy than the world's best sharpshooters."