JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jack Trojan on March 23, 2018, 06:13:01 AM

Title: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Jack Trojan on March 23, 2018, 06:13:01 AM
So...the CTs contend that the Parkland medicos observed a "fist sized" hole in the back of JFK's head due to a blow out from a frontal shot. Strange post-mortem surgery suggests the entry wound was on JFK's right high forehead. So...if this was a shot from the front and NOT from the TSBD, then this was a conspiracy. So...based on where the limo was on Elm at frame 312 as the bullet entered JFK's head, the bullet's trajectory must have been as follows:

(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/TrainOverpassTurkeyShoot.jpg)


Assuming the shot came from the front/overpass and this was a turkey shoot.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 23, 2018, 02:45:37 PM
A few problems with that. On the triple underpass were two Dallas police officers. Officers J. W. Foster and J. C. White, along with 8 or 9 workers, including Skinny Holland. None of them reported a gunman being there or hearing any shots from there. When you look at the medical evidence it does not support a shot from there. The entrance wound on the back of the president's head showed beveling on the inside surface of the skull indicating the direction of the bullet. A portion of the right temporal region of the skull showed beveling on the outside surface indicating direction of the bullet. Before a bunch of the CTers get on here and say, "all of the doctors claimed a big hole in the back of the president's head" that is just not true. All of them did not claim that. That all started with Groden and Livingstone. A good example is Dr. Marion "Pepper" Jenkins who was the anestheiologist and was the closest doctor to the president's head. Jenkins never claimed a hole in the back of the president's head. Dr. Kemp Clark examined the head wound and never said it. 
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Bill Chapman on March 23, 2018, 03:08:06 PM
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So...the CTs contend that the Parkland medicos observed a "fist sized" hole in the back of JFK's head due to a blow out from a frontal shot. Strange post-mortem surgery suggests the entry wound was on JFK's right high forehead. So...if this was a shot from the front and NOT from the TSBD, then this was a conspiracy. So...based on where the limo was on Elm at frame 312 as the bullet entered JFK's head, the bullet's trajectory must have been as follows:

(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/TrainOverpassTurkeyShoot.jpg)


Assuming the shot came from the front/overpass and this was a turkey shoot.

Aha... a Lady Bird, a turkey, and a sitting duck.

Ze plot thickens, Inspector Clouseau..
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on March 23, 2018, 03:16:37 PM
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Aha... a Lady Bird, a turkey, and a sitting duck.

Ze plot thickens, Inspector Clouseau..


Ze plot thickens, Inspector Clouseau..

I see you have real professionals on your side  8)
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 23, 2018, 03:31:08 PM
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The entrance wound on the back of the president's head showed beveling on the inside surface of the skull indicating the direction of the bullet.

Sherri Fiester, Certified Senior Crime Scene Investigator and law enforcement instructor on beveling:

--------------------------
Beveling

Bullets traveling through bone create marginal conical shaped fractures adjacent to the entry or exit site. The conical beveling characteristically appears as a symmetrical chipping out of bone forming an indentation surrounding the entry or exit point on the opposite side of impact. The small end of the cone touches the interior or exterior bone table from which the bullet entered. Tangential gunshot wounds to the head create elliptically shaped defects containing both internal and external beveling (Levy, 2012).

Some wounds present both internal and external beveling. Researchers attribute this pseudo-beveling in high velocity distance shots to the transference of kinetic energy to the skull as dislodged chips flaking off entry wound edges, producing the effect of beveling. Without careful examination, misinterpretation of an entrance wound as an exit wound is possible in all types of entries (Quatrehomme, 1998, Coe, 1981; Prahlow, 2010; Adams, 2010).

Based upon current forensic research, it appears beveling cannot provide conclusive evidence of projectile direction. Incorrect assessment of direction can occur with tangential entries or exits, mistaken orientation, insufficient beveling, or the failure to recognize external beveling on entry wounds.
--------------------
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Gary Craig on March 23, 2018, 03:49:46 PM
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A few problems with that. On the triple underpass were two Dallas police officers. Officers J. W. Foster and J. C. White, along with 8 or 9 workers, including Skinny Holland. None of them reported a gunman being there or hearing any shots from there. When you look at the medical evidence it does not support a shot from there. The entrance wound on the back of the president's head showed beveling on the inside surface of the skull indicating the direction of the bullet. A portion of the right temporal region of the skull showed beveling on the outside surface indicating direction of the bullet. Before a bunch of the CTers get on here and say, "all of the doctors claimed a big hole in the back of the president's head" that is just not true. All of them did not claim that. That all started with Groden and Livingstone. A good example is Dr. Marion "Pepper" Jenkins who was the anestheiologist and was the closest doctor to the president's head. Jenkins never claimed a hole in the back of the president's head. Dr. Kemp Clark examined the head wound and never said it.

Although the photos taken at the autopsy of the beveling in the skull bone at the fatal wound don't exist

in the archives, Drs Humes, Boswell and Finck went to their graves adamant about the EOP location. They

held JFK's skull in their hands. The WC agreed with their conclusion.

The Clark Panel found on an autopsy x-ray a trail of metal particles high on JFK's skull. 4 inches above

the EOP fatal wound entrance. Apparently from the path of a disintegrating projectile. That panel

concluded there was a wound to JFK's skull 4 inches above the official WC EOP entrance.

Official government acknowledgment of evidence of at least 2 wounds to JFK's skull.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 23, 2018, 04:00:50 PM
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Although the photos taken at the autopsy of the beveling in the skull bone at the fatal wound don't exist

in the archives, Drs Humes, Boswell and Finck went to their graves adamant about the EOP location. They

held JFK's skull in their hands. The WC agreed with their conclusion.

The Clark Panel found on an autopsy x-ray a trail of metal particles high on JFK's skull. 4 inches above

the EOP fatal wound entrance. Apparently from the path of a disintegrating projectile. That panel

concluded there was a wound to JFK's skull 4 inches above the official WC EOP entrance.

Official government acknowledgment of evidence of at least 2 wounds to JFK's skull.

The question here is not what I posted Gary it is "where did the head shot come from" I don't think it came from the front. I think it came from the back. 
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 23, 2018, 04:03:01 PM
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Sherri Fiester, Certified Senior Crime Scene Investigator and law enforcement instructor on beveling:

--------------------------
Beveling

Bullets traveling through bone create marginal conical shaped fractures adjacent to the entry or exit site. The conical beveling characteristically appears as a symmetrical chipping out of bone forming an indentation surrounding the entry or exit point on the opposite side of impact. The small end of the cone touches the interior or exterior bone table from which the bullet entered. Tangential gunshot wounds to the head create elliptically shaped defects containing both internal and external beveling (Levy, 2012).

Some wounds present both internal and external beveling. Researchers attribute this pseudo-beveling in high velocity distance shots to the transference of kinetic energy to the skull as dislodged chips flaking off entry wound edges, producing the effect of beveling. Without careful examination, misinterpretation of an entrance wound as an exit wound is possible in all types of entries (Quatrehomme, 1998, Coe, 1981; Prahlow, 2010; Adams, 2010).

Based upon current forensic research, it appears beveling cannot provide conclusive evidence of projectile direction. Incorrect assessment of direction can occur with tangential entries or exits, mistaken orientation, insufficient beveling, or the failure to recognize external beveling on entry wounds.
--------------------

I will believe the autopsy report and the doctors that performed it. I did not ask the question John. Jack did. Why don't you answer it.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Gary Craig on March 23, 2018, 04:06:47 PM
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The question here is not what I posted Gary it is "where did the head shot come from" I don't think it came from the front. I think it came from the back.

"where did the head shot come from"

should be "where did the head shots come from?"


Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 23, 2018, 04:11:28 PM
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"where did the head shot come from"

should be "where did the head shots come from?"

should be "where did the head shots come from?"


So, do you have any opinions on that?
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 23, 2018, 04:13:12 PM
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I will believe the autopsy report and the doctors that performed it.

Of course you will.  You will "stand by" whoever gives you the answer you've already assumed is the right one.

Quote
I did not ask the question John. Jack did. Why don't you answer it.

Where did the head shot come from?  No freakin' idea.  Insufficient evidence.

Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Gary Craig on March 23, 2018, 04:22:00 PM
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should be "where did the head shots come from?"


So, do you have any opinions on that?

The "grassy knoll" and the Dal-Tex bldg.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 23, 2018, 04:35:33 PM
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Of course you will.  You will "stand by" whoever gives you the answer you've already assumed is the right one.

Where did the head shot come from?  No freakin' idea.  Insufficient evidence.

No freakin' idea.

First honest thing I've seen you post.  ;D
Now that wasn't so hard, was it John.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on March 23, 2018, 04:47:33 PM
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A few problems with that. On the triple underpass were two Dallas police officers. Officers J. W. Foster and J. C. White, along with 8 or 9 workers, including Skinny Holland. None of them reported a gunman being there or hearing any shots from there. When you look at the medical evidence it does not support a shot from there. The entrance wound on the back of the president's head showed beveling on the inside surface of the skull indicating the direction of the bullet. A portion of the right temporal region of the skull showed beveling on the outside surface indicating direction of the bullet. Before a bunch of the CTers get on here and say, "all of the doctors claimed a big hole in the back of the president's head" that is just not true. All of them did not claim that. That all started with Groden and Livingstone. A good example is Dr. Marion "Pepper" Jenkins who was the anestheiologist and was the closest doctor to the president's head. Jenkins never claimed a hole in the back of the president's head. Dr. Kemp Clark examined the head wound and never said it.

Jenkins to the ARRB

"He saw a head wound in the ?..middle temporal region back to the occipital?


Dr Kemp to the W.C.

"Dr. CLARK - The President was lying on his back on the emergency cart. Dr. Perry was performing a tracheotomy. There were chest tubes being inserted. Dr. Jenkins was assisting the President's respirations through a tube in his trachea. Dr. Jones and Dr. Carrico were administering fluids and blood intravenously. The President was making a few spasmodic respiratory efforts. I assisted. in withdrawing the endotracheal tube from the throat as Dr. Perry was then ready to insert the tracheotomy tube . I then examined the President briefly.
My findings showed his pupils were widely dilated, did not react to light, and his eyes were deviated outward with a slight skew deviation.
I then examined the wound in the back of the President's head. This was a large, gaping wound in the right posterior part, with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed. There was considerable blood loss evident on the carriage, the floor, and the clothing of some of the people present. I would estimate 1,500 cc. of blood being present.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 23, 2018, 05:39:39 PM
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No freakin' idea.

First honest thing I've seen you post.  ;D
Now that wasn't so hard, was it John.

Not hard at all.  What's amusing is that you seem to think I've never said it before.

Now, would you care to explain why you think there is sufficient evidence to pinpoint where the head shot came from?  And what that evidence would be?  Or are you still in "not playing that game" mode?
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Tim Nickerson on March 24, 2018, 01:37:15 AM
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So...the CTs contend that the Parkland medicos observed a "fist sized" hole in the back of JFK's head due to a blow out from a frontal shot. Strange post-mortem surgery suggests the entry wound was on JFK's right high forehead. So...if this was a shot from the front and NOT from the TSBD, then this was a conspiracy. So...based on where the limo was on Elm at frame 312 as the bullet entered JFK's head, the bullet's trajectory must have been as follows:

(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/TrainOverpassTurkeyShoot.jpg)


Assuming the shot came from the front/overpass and this was a turkey shoot.

As per the autopsy report, as well as all of the other physical evidence, the head shot came from the rear and above.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Jack Trojan on March 25, 2018, 08:29:46 PM
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As per the autopsy report, as well as all of the other physical evidence, the head shot came from the rear and above.

According to the autopsy photos, someone gave JFK a haircut and stitched up the fist-sized hole in the occipital region of his scalp. And what about the post-mortem surgery to his scalp? And what about the tracheostomy performed on a dead man, which would have killed him if he wasn't already dead? Was any of this mentioned in the autopsy report? Instead Humes burned his fricken notes!
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on March 25, 2018, 08:50:35 PM
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According to the autopsy photos, someone gave JFK a haircut and stitched up the fist-sized hole in the occipital region of his scalp. And what about the post-mortem surgery to his scalp? And what about the tracheostomy performed on a dead man, which would have killed him if he wasn't already dead? Was any of this mentioned in the autopsy report? Instead Humes burned his fricken notes!

Jackie jumped on the back of the car to retrieve a part of JFK's skull, which she handed to doctors at Parkland hospital, if I remember correctly. In addition, wasn't another piece of the skull later found in Dealey Plaza?

So how can an autopsy photo show Kennedy's head without at least one piece of skull missing?
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Tim Nickerson on March 25, 2018, 08:50:51 PM
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According to the autopsy photos, someone gave JFK a haircut and stitched up the fist-sized hole in the occipital region of his scalp.

There never was a fist-sized hole in the occipital region of the scalp.

Quote
And what about the post-mortem surgery to his scalp?

Never happened.

Quote
And what about the tracheostomy performed on a dead man, which would have killed him if he wasn't already dead?

What about it?

Quote
Instead Humes burned his fricken notes!

Not before he copied the information they contained.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Tim Nickerson on March 25, 2018, 08:52:21 PM
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Jackie jumped on the back of the car to retrieve a part of JFK's skull, which she handed to doctors at Parkland hospital, if I remember correctly. In addition, wasn't another piece of the skull later found in Dealey Plaza?

So how can an autopsy photo show Kennedy's head without at least one piece of skull missing?

It wasn't part of his skull that Jackie retrieved.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on March 25, 2018, 09:02:29 PM
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It wasn't part of his skull that Jackie retrieved.

What was it? His wallet, perhaps?
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Jack Trojan on March 25, 2018, 10:40:41 PM
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There never was a fist-sized hole in the occipital region of the scalp.

So you were there? Or are you assuming the autopsy photos corroborate this? You do realize that if this was a conspiracy then the autopsy photos were meant to deceive us, right?

Quote
[Post-mortem surgery] Never happened.

Ya-huh! Did too! Humes and Boswell were carving up JFK's head like a Thanksgiving turkey(shoot).

Quote
[The tracheostomy]What about it?

The fact that it was performed on a dead man doesn't give you pause? Give your head a shake and ask yourself why would anyone do this? To what end? To disguise the entry wound of course as part of the conspiracy to remove ALL evidence suggesting any shots came from the front. That was the FBI's broad agenda in their role as the "cleaners" of the coup. Otherwise, any medico will tell you, cutting a big gapping hole in a dead man's throat is not standard medical procedure.

Quote
Not before [Humes] copied the information they contained.

Sure. Humes and Satan say hey! :D
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Tim Nickerson on March 26, 2018, 04:25:58 AM
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So you were there? Or are you assuming the autopsy photos corroborate this? You do realize that if this was a conspiracy then the autopsy photos were meant to deceive us, right?

I don't assume that the autopsy photos corroborate it. I know that the autopsy photos corroborate it.

Quote
Ya-huh! Did too! Humes and Boswell were carving up JFK's head like a Thanksgiving turkey(shoot).

What the hell are you talking about?

Quote
The fact that it was performed on a dead man doesn't give you pause? Give your head a shake and ask yourself why would anyone do this? To what end? To disguise the entry wound of course as part of the conspiracy to remove ALL evidence suggesting any shots came from the front.

Kennedy was not dead. He was still breathing and had a pulse.

Quote
That was the FBI's broad agenda in their role as the "cleaners" of the coup. Otherwise, any medico will tell you, cutting a big gapping hole in a dead man's throat is not standard medical procedure.

Sure. Humes and Satan say hey! :D

You are a Loon.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Jack Trojan on March 26, 2018, 04:42:51 AM
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I don't assume that the autopsy photos corroborate it. I know that the autopsy photos corroborate it.

Sucker.

Quote
Kennedy was not dead. He was still breathing and had a pulse.

No one would still be alive with most of their brain missing as per the autopsy photos, which you seem to think are gospel. Funny that you believe medical personnel when it suits you.

Quote
You are a Loon.

You are a joke that resorts to ad homs because you got nothing.