JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jack Trojan on March 23, 2018, 06:13:01 AM

Title: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Jack Trojan on March 23, 2018, 06:13:01 AM
So...the CTs contend that the Parkland medicos observed a "fist sized" hole in the back of JFK's head due to a blow out from a frontal shot. Strange post-mortem surgery suggests the entry wound was on JFK's right high forehead. So...if this was a shot from the front and NOT from the TSBD, then this was a conspiracy. So...based on where the limo was on Elm at frame 312 as the bullet entered JFK's head, the bullet's trajectory must have been as follows:

(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/TrainOverpassTurkeyShoot.jpg)


Assuming the shot came from the front/overpass and this was a turkey shoot.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 23, 2018, 02:45:37 PM
A few problems with that. On the triple underpass were two Dallas police officers. Officers J. W. Foster and J. C. White, along with 8 or 9 workers, including Skinny Holland. None of them reported a gunman being there or hearing any shots from there. When you look at the medical evidence it does not support a shot from there. The entrance wound on the back of the president's head showed beveling on the inside surface of the skull indicating the direction of the bullet. A portion of the right temporal region of the skull showed beveling on the outside surface indicating direction of the bullet. Before a bunch of the CTers get on here and say, "all of the doctors claimed a big hole in the back of the president's head" that is just not true. All of them did not claim that. That all started with Groden and Livingstone. A good example is Dr. Marion "Pepper" Jenkins who was the anestheiologist and was the closest doctor to the president's head. Jenkins never claimed a hole in the back of the president's head. Dr. Kemp Clark examined the head wound and never said it. 
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Bill Chapman on March 23, 2018, 03:08:06 PM
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So...the CTs contend that the Parkland medicos observed a "fist sized" hole in the back of JFK's head due to a blow out from a frontal shot. Strange post-mortem surgery suggests the entry wound was on JFK's right high forehead. So...if this was a shot from the front and NOT from the TSBD, then this was a conspiracy. So...based on where the limo was on Elm at frame 312 as the bullet entered JFK's head, the bullet's trajectory must have been as follows:

(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/TrainOverpassTurkeyShoot.jpg)


Assuming the shot came from the front/overpass and this was a turkey shoot.

Aha... a Lady Bird, a turkey, and a sitting duck.

Ze plot thickens, Inspector Clouseau..
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on March 23, 2018, 03:16:37 PM
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Aha... a Lady Bird, a turkey, and a sitting duck.

Ze plot thickens, Inspector Clouseau..


Ze plot thickens, Inspector Clouseau..

I see you have real professionals on your side  8)
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 23, 2018, 03:31:08 PM
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The entrance wound on the back of the president's head showed beveling on the inside surface of the skull indicating the direction of the bullet.

Sherri Fiester, Certified Senior Crime Scene Investigator and law enforcement instructor on beveling:

--------------------------
Beveling

Bullets traveling through bone create marginal conical shaped fractures adjacent to the entry or exit site. The conical beveling characteristically appears as a symmetrical chipping out of bone forming an indentation surrounding the entry or exit point on the opposite side of impact. The small end of the cone touches the interior or exterior bone table from which the bullet entered. Tangential gunshot wounds to the head create elliptically shaped defects containing both internal and external beveling (Levy, 2012).

Some wounds present both internal and external beveling. Researchers attribute this pseudo-beveling in high velocity distance shots to the transference of kinetic energy to the skull as dislodged chips flaking off entry wound edges, producing the effect of beveling. Without careful examination, misinterpretation of an entrance wound as an exit wound is possible in all types of entries (Quatrehomme, 1998, Coe, 1981; Prahlow, 2010; Adams, 2010).

Based upon current forensic research, it appears beveling cannot provide conclusive evidence of projectile direction. Incorrect assessment of direction can occur with tangential entries or exits, mistaken orientation, insufficient beveling, or the failure to recognize external beveling on entry wounds.
--------------------
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Gary Craig on March 23, 2018, 03:49:46 PM
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A few problems with that. On the triple underpass were two Dallas police officers. Officers J. W. Foster and J. C. White, along with 8 or 9 workers, including Skinny Holland. None of them reported a gunman being there or hearing any shots from there. When you look at the medical evidence it does not support a shot from there. The entrance wound on the back of the president's head showed beveling on the inside surface of the skull indicating the direction of the bullet. A portion of the right temporal region of the skull showed beveling on the outside surface indicating direction of the bullet. Before a bunch of the CTers get on here and say, "all of the doctors claimed a big hole in the back of the president's head" that is just not true. All of them did not claim that. That all started with Groden and Livingstone. A good example is Dr. Marion "Pepper" Jenkins who was the anestheiologist and was the closest doctor to the president's head. Jenkins never claimed a hole in the back of the president's head. Dr. Kemp Clark examined the head wound and never said it.

Although the photos taken at the autopsy of the beveling in the skull bone at the fatal wound don't exist

in the archives, Drs Humes, Boswell and Finck went to their graves adamant about the EOP location. They

held JFK's skull in their hands. The WC agreed with their conclusion.

The Clark Panel found on an autopsy x-ray a trail of metal particles high on JFK's skull. 4 inches above

the EOP fatal wound entrance. Apparently from the path of a disintegrating projectile. That panel

concluded there was a wound to JFK's skull 4 inches above the official WC EOP entrance.

Official government acknowledgment of evidence of at least 2 wounds to JFK's skull.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 23, 2018, 04:00:50 PM
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Although the photos taken at the autopsy of the beveling in the skull bone at the fatal wound don't exist

in the archives, Drs Humes, Boswell and Finck went to their graves adamant about the EOP location. They

held JFK's skull in their hands. The WC agreed with their conclusion.

The Clark Panel found on an autopsy x-ray a trail of metal particles high on JFK's skull. 4 inches above

the EOP fatal wound entrance. Apparently from the path of a disintegrating projectile. That panel

concluded there was a wound to JFK's skull 4 inches above the official WC EOP entrance.

Official government acknowledgment of evidence of at least 2 wounds to JFK's skull.

The question here is not what I posted Gary it is "where did the head shot come from" I don't think it came from the front. I think it came from the back. 
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 23, 2018, 04:03:01 PM
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Sherri Fiester, Certified Senior Crime Scene Investigator and law enforcement instructor on beveling:

--------------------------
Beveling

Bullets traveling through bone create marginal conical shaped fractures adjacent to the entry or exit site. The conical beveling characteristically appears as a symmetrical chipping out of bone forming an indentation surrounding the entry or exit point on the opposite side of impact. The small end of the cone touches the interior or exterior bone table from which the bullet entered. Tangential gunshot wounds to the head create elliptically shaped defects containing both internal and external beveling (Levy, 2012).

Some wounds present both internal and external beveling. Researchers attribute this pseudo-beveling in high velocity distance shots to the transference of kinetic energy to the skull as dislodged chips flaking off entry wound edges, producing the effect of beveling. Without careful examination, misinterpretation of an entrance wound as an exit wound is possible in all types of entries (Quatrehomme, 1998, Coe, 1981; Prahlow, 2010; Adams, 2010).

Based upon current forensic research, it appears beveling cannot provide conclusive evidence of projectile direction. Incorrect assessment of direction can occur with tangential entries or exits, mistaken orientation, insufficient beveling, or the failure to recognize external beveling on entry wounds.
--------------------

I will believe the autopsy report and the doctors that performed it. I did not ask the question John. Jack did. Why don't you answer it.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Gary Craig on March 23, 2018, 04:06:47 PM
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The question here is not what I posted Gary it is "where did the head shot come from" I don't think it came from the front. I think it came from the back.

"where did the head shot come from"

should be "where did the head shots come from?"


Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 23, 2018, 04:11:28 PM
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"where did the head shot come from"

should be "where did the head shots come from?"

should be "where did the head shots come from?"


So, do you have any opinions on that?
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 23, 2018, 04:13:12 PM
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I will believe the autopsy report and the doctors that performed it.

Of course you will.  You will "stand by" whoever gives you the answer you've already assumed is the right one.

Quote
I did not ask the question John. Jack did. Why don't you answer it.

Where did the head shot come from?  No freakin' idea.  Insufficient evidence.

Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Gary Craig on March 23, 2018, 04:22:00 PM
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should be "where did the head shots come from?"


So, do you have any opinions on that?

The "grassy knoll" and the Dal-Tex bldg.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Wesley Johnson on March 23, 2018, 04:35:33 PM
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Of course you will.  You will "stand by" whoever gives you the answer you've already assumed is the right one.

Where did the head shot come from?  No freakin' idea.  Insufficient evidence.

No freakin' idea.

First honest thing I've seen you post.  ;D
Now that wasn't so hard, was it John.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on March 23, 2018, 04:47:33 PM
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A few problems with that. On the triple underpass were two Dallas police officers. Officers J. W. Foster and J. C. White, along with 8 or 9 workers, including Skinny Holland. None of them reported a gunman being there or hearing any shots from there. When you look at the medical evidence it does not support a shot from there. The entrance wound on the back of the president's head showed beveling on the inside surface of the skull indicating the direction of the bullet. A portion of the right temporal region of the skull showed beveling on the outside surface indicating direction of the bullet. Before a bunch of the CTers get on here and say, "all of the doctors claimed a big hole in the back of the president's head" that is just not true. All of them did not claim that. That all started with Groden and Livingstone. A good example is Dr. Marion "Pepper" Jenkins who was the anestheiologist and was the closest doctor to the president's head. Jenkins never claimed a hole in the back of the president's head. Dr. Kemp Clark examined the head wound and never said it.

Jenkins to the ARRB

"He saw a head wound in the ?..middle temporal region back to the occipital?


Dr Kemp to the W.C.

"Dr. CLARK - The President was lying on his back on the emergency cart. Dr. Perry was performing a tracheotomy. There were chest tubes being inserted. Dr. Jenkins was assisting the President's respirations through a tube in his trachea. Dr. Jones and Dr. Carrico were administering fluids and blood intravenously. The President was making a few spasmodic respiratory efforts. I assisted. in withdrawing the endotracheal tube from the throat as Dr. Perry was then ready to insert the tracheotomy tube . I then examined the President briefly.
My findings showed his pupils were widely dilated, did not react to light, and his eyes were deviated outward with a slight skew deviation.
I then examined the wound in the back of the President's head. This was a large, gaping wound in the right posterior part, with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed. There was considerable blood loss evident on the carriage, the floor, and the clothing of some of the people present. I would estimate 1,500 cc. of blood being present.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: John Iacoletti on March 23, 2018, 05:39:39 PM
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No freakin' idea.

First honest thing I've seen you post.  ;D
Now that wasn't so hard, was it John.

Not hard at all.  What's amusing is that you seem to think I've never said it before.

Now, would you care to explain why you think there is sufficient evidence to pinpoint where the head shot came from?  And what that evidence would be?  Or are you still in "not playing that game" mode?
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Tim Nickerson on March 24, 2018, 01:37:15 AM
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So...the CTs contend that the Parkland medicos observed a "fist sized" hole in the back of JFK's head due to a blow out from a frontal shot. Strange post-mortem surgery suggests the entry wound was on JFK's right high forehead. So...if this was a shot from the front and NOT from the TSBD, then this was a conspiracy. So...based on where the limo was on Elm at frame 312 as the bullet entered JFK's head, the bullet's trajectory must have been as follows:

(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/TrainOverpassTurkeyShoot.jpg)


Assuming the shot came from the front/overpass and this was a turkey shoot.

As per the autopsy report, as well as all of the other physical evidence, the head shot came from the rear and above.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Jack Trojan on March 25, 2018, 08:29:46 PM
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As per the autopsy report, as well as all of the other physical evidence, the head shot came from the rear and above.

According to the autopsy photos, someone gave JFK a haircut and stitched up the fist-sized hole in the occipital region of his scalp. And what about the post-mortem surgery to his scalp? And what about the tracheostomy performed on a dead man, which would have killed him if he wasn't already dead? Was any of this mentioned in the autopsy report? Instead Humes burned his fricken notes!
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on March 25, 2018, 08:50:35 PM
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According to the autopsy photos, someone gave JFK a haircut and stitched up the fist-sized hole in the occipital region of his scalp. And what about the post-mortem surgery to his scalp? And what about the tracheostomy performed on a dead man, which would have killed him if he wasn't already dead? Was any of this mentioned in the autopsy report? Instead Humes burned his fricken notes!

Jackie jumped on the back of the car to retrieve a part of JFK's skull, which she handed to doctors at Parkland hospital, if I remember correctly. In addition, wasn't another piece of the skull later found in Dealey Plaza?

So how can an autopsy photo show Kennedy's head without at least one piece of skull missing?
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Tim Nickerson on March 25, 2018, 08:50:51 PM
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According to the autopsy photos, someone gave JFK a haircut and stitched up the fist-sized hole in the occipital region of his scalp.

There never was a fist-sized hole in the occipital region of the scalp.

Quote
And what about the post-mortem surgery to his scalp?

Never happened.

Quote
And what about the tracheostomy performed on a dead man, which would have killed him if he wasn't already dead?

What about it?

Quote
Instead Humes burned his fricken notes!

Not before he copied the information they contained.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Tim Nickerson on March 25, 2018, 08:52:21 PM
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Jackie jumped on the back of the car to retrieve a part of JFK's skull, which she handed to doctors at Parkland hospital, if I remember correctly. In addition, wasn't another piece of the skull later found in Dealey Plaza?

So how can an autopsy photo show Kennedy's head without at least one piece of skull missing?

It wasn't part of his skull that Jackie retrieved.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on March 25, 2018, 09:02:29 PM
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It wasn't part of his skull that Jackie retrieved.

What was it? His wallet, perhaps?
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Jack Trojan on March 25, 2018, 10:40:41 PM
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There never was a fist-sized hole in the occipital region of the scalp.

So you were there? Or are you assuming the autopsy photos corroborate this? You do realize that if this was a conspiracy then the autopsy photos were meant to deceive us, right?

Quote
[Post-mortem surgery] Never happened.

Ya-huh! Did too! Humes and Boswell were carving up JFK's head like a Thanksgiving turkey(shoot).

Quote
[The tracheostomy]What about it?

The fact that it was performed on a dead man doesn't give you pause? Give your head a shake and ask yourself why would anyone do this? To what end? To disguise the entry wound of course as part of the conspiracy to remove ALL evidence suggesting any shots came from the front. That was the FBI's broad agenda in their role as the "cleaners" of the coup. Otherwise, any medico will tell you, cutting a big gapping hole in a dead man's throat is not standard medical procedure.

Quote
Not before [Humes] copied the information they contained.

Sure. Humes and Satan say hey! :D
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Tim Nickerson on March 26, 2018, 04:25:58 AM
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So you were there? Or are you assuming the autopsy photos corroborate this? You do realize that if this was a conspiracy then the autopsy photos were meant to deceive us, right?

I don't assume that the autopsy photos corroborate it. I know that the autopsy photos corroborate it.

Quote
Ya-huh! Did too! Humes and Boswell were carving up JFK's head like a Thanksgiving turkey(shoot).

What the hell are you talking about?

Quote
The fact that it was performed on a dead man doesn't give you pause? Give your head a shake and ask yourself why would anyone do this? To what end? To disguise the entry wound of course as part of the conspiracy to remove ALL evidence suggesting any shots came from the front.

Kennedy was not dead. He was still breathing and had a pulse.

Quote
That was the FBI's broad agenda in their role as the "cleaners" of the coup. Otherwise, any medico will tell you, cutting a big gapping hole in a dead man's throat is not standard medical procedure.

Sure. Humes and Satan say hey! :D

You are a Loon.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Jack Trojan on March 26, 2018, 04:42:51 AM
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I don't assume that the autopsy photos corroborate it. I know that the autopsy photos corroborate it.

Sucker.

Quote
Kennedy was not dead. He was still breathing and had a pulse.

No one would still be alive with most of their brain missing as per the autopsy photos, which you seem to think are gospel. Funny that you believe medical personnel when it suits you.

Quote
You are a Loon.

You are a joke that resorts to ad homs because you got nothing.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Mike Orr on September 13, 2019, 09:57:24 PM
As per the  " Testimony of Dr. William Kemp Clark : Vol. Vl , p. 18  jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/clark_w.htm

Mr. Specter  -  What did you observe the President's condition to be on your arrival there ?

Dr. Clark - The President was lying on his back on the emergency cart. Dr. Perry was performing a tracheotomy. There were chest tubes being inserted. Dr. Jenkins was assisting the President's respirations through a tube in his trachea. Dr. Jones and Dr. Carrico were administering fluids and blood intravenously . The President was making a few spasmodic respiratory efforts. I assisted , in withdrawing the endotracheal tube from the throat as Dr. Perry was then ready to insert the tracheotomy tube . I then examined the President briefly. My findings showed his pupils were widely dilated , did not react to light, and his eyes were deviated outward with a slight skew of deviation .
 
I then examined the wound in the " back of the President's head " . This was a large , gaping wound in the" right posterior " part , with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed . There was considerable blood loss evident on the carriage , the floor , and some of the people present . I would estimate 1,000 cc. of blood being present .

Dr. Clark makes no mention of the right side of the head having damage above and forward the right ear and he makes no mention of damage to the top of the head . As Thomas Robinson said " The Drs. did that " ( Bethesda ) !
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on September 15, 2019, 09:44:20 AM
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As per the  " Testimony of Dr. William Kemp Clark : Vol. Vl , p. 18  jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/clark_w.htm

Mr. Specter  -  What did you observe the President's condition to be on your arrival there ?

Dr. Clark - The President was lying on his back on the emergency cart. Dr. Perry was performing a tracheotomy. There were chest tubes being inserted. Dr. Jenkins was assisting the President's respirations through a tube in his trachea. Dr. Jones and Dr. Carrico were administering fluids and blood intravenously . The President was making a few spasmodic respiratory efforts. I assisted , in withdrawing the endotracheal tube from the throat as Dr. Perry was then ready to insert the tracheotomy tube . I then examined the President briefly. My findings showed his pupils were widely dilated , did not react to light, and his eyes were deviated outward with a slight skew of deviation .
 
I then examined the wound in the " back of the President's head " . This was a large , gaping wound in the" right posterior " part , with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed . There was considerable blood loss evident on the carriage , the floor , and some of the people present . I would estimate 1,000 cc. of blood being present .

Dr. Clark makes no mention of the right side of the head having damage above and forward the right ear and he makes no mention of damage to the top of the head . As Thomas Robinson said " The Drs. did that " ( Bethesda ) !

Mike, Dr Kemp was only, as he said to the W.C. " board certified by the American Board of Neurological Surgery. I am a Fellow with the American College of Surgeons. I am a member of the Harvey Cushing Society.
Mr. SPECTER - What is the Harvey Cushing Society, by the way?
Dr. CLARK - It is the largest society of neurological surgeons in the world.
Mr. SPECTER - And what do your duties consist of with respect to the Southwestern Medical School of the University of Texas?
Dr. CLARK - I am in charge of the division of neurological surgery and carry the responsibility of administering this department or this division, to arrange the instruction of medical students in neurological surgery and to conduct research in this field. "

What would he know about head wounds? :D
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Gary Craig on September 17, 2019, 06:17:52 PM
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/jfktemple.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/jfk_02.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/Be7_hi14.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/kilduff.jpg)
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/groden.jpg)
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on September 17, 2019, 08:13:56 PM
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Kennedy was not dead. He was still breathing and had a pulse.
Quote
I exchanged the intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus for an anesthesia machine and continued artificial ventilation. Doctors Gene Akin and A. H. Giesecke assisted with the respiratory problems incident to changing from the orotracheal tube to a tracheostomy tube and Doctors Hunt and Giesecke connected a cardioscope to determine cardiac activity.

During the progress of these activities, the emergency room cart was elevated at the feet in order to provide a Trendelenburg position, a venous cutdown was performed on the right saphenous vein, and additional fluids were begun in a vein in the left forearm while blood was ordered from the blood bank. All of these activities were completed by approximately 1245, at which time external cardiac massage was still being carried out effectively by Doctor Clark as judged by a palpable peripheral pulse. Despite these measures there was no electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity.
   https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix8.html#statement
More Kool-Aid anyone?
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Jack Trojan on September 17, 2019, 09:17:59 PM
The Parkland docs who reviewed the autopsy photos agreed that JFK appeared to have had post-mortem surgery. LNers now have to make up an excuse why that was not the case. Because if JFK did have post-mortem surgery then they have been unwitting shills for the conspirators. LNers are stuck in a TSBD 6th floor box where not only did LHO take all the shots, but there was NO CONSPIRACY!!! Then why the post-mortem surgery?

Post-mortem surgery insinuates a conspiracy unless there was a plausible, innocent explanation why Humes and Boswell never mentioned having performed it and why Humes burned all his notes. How did Humes and Boswell arrange to get the "alone" time with JFK to perform the surgery? If their involvement was part of the conspiracy, then it reached the highest levels of gov, along with the Secret Service, who absconded with JFK's body, at gun point, no less.

Post-mortem surgery was performed on JFK to obscure a bullet entrance wound from the front. Humes agenda was clear, hide all evidence that contradicted the lone nut narrative, which included obscuring shots from the front. So he carved up JFK's forehead to hide 1 of 2 shots that occurred almost simultaneously at the turkey-shoot point (back and to the left), which were:

1) a shot from the overpass entered JFK's skull at his hairline on the right side of his forehead, which blew out his right occipital bone and created a fist sized hole that many hospital staff noted.

2) a shot from the knoll with a frangible bullet blew out the right temple of JFK and did most of the damage to his brain. A FMJ bullet does not do this kind of damage:

(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/323.png)

The whole point of the Turkey-shoot Point was to make 2 or more shots sound like 1. And only take the shot if the umbrella man gives you the signal that the shot from the Dal-Tex building didn't do the job.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on September 18, 2019, 09:28:06 AM
Where did posts from March 2018 suddenly appear from. I thought all previous posts before the hacking had been lost.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Ted Shields on September 18, 2019, 09:40:35 AM
Do people really believe there was a shooter on the overpass with the witnesses there and no one noticed someone firing a rifle beside them?

Do people really believe that there was a shooter on the knoll with the witnesses there and no one noticed someone firing a rifle beside them?

Like, the 3 men on the steps, none of them heard a rifle being fired 10 feet behind their heads? Either did Marilyn Sitzman? A shooter mere feet away yet she didn't notice.

"I would have heard the sounding of the gun much closer, and I probably had a ringing in my head because the fence was quite close to where we were standing, very close"

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qB64sjleNYw/WGMqFkG690I/AAAAAAAAAaQ/8jtXjjfWtIIR3i_DnSuPDLCUOIIknhvQgCLcB/s640/Muchmore+2.gif)
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Gary Craig on September 18, 2019, 07:01:27 PM
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Do people really believe there was a shooter on the overpass with the witnesses there and no one noticed someone firing a rifle beside them?

Do people really believe that there was a shooter on the knoll with the witnesses there and no one noticed someone firing a rifle beside them?

Like, the 3 men on the steps, none of them heard a rifle being fired 10 feet behind their heads? Either did Marilyn Sitzman? A shooter mere feet away yet she didn't notice.

"I would have heard the sounding of the gun much closer, and I probably had a ringing in my head because the fence was quite close to where we were standing, very close"

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qB64sjleNYw/WGMqFkG690I/AAAAAAAAAaQ/8jtXjjfWtIIR3i_DnSuPDLCUOIIknhvQgCLcB/s640/Muchmore+2.gif)

TESTIMONY OF (some of the) EYE-WITNESSES WHO THOUGHT SHOTS CAME FROM OTHER THAN The TSBD

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=40392&relPageId=44 (http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=40392&relPageId=44)

1.  Danny Garcia Arces - Shots came from railroad track yards.
2.  Mrs. Donald Sam Baker - Shots came from railroad yards;not possible to come from the TSBD.
3.  Mrs. A. G.(Jane)Berry- Thought shots came from west of her position.
4.  O. V. Campbell - Thought shots came from railroad yard to west of the TSBD.
5.  Mrs. Charles Thomas (Avery) Davis - Thought shots came from triple underpass.
6.  Mrs. John T. (Elsie) Dorman) - She was on the 4th floor of TSBD and thought shots came from Records Building.
7.  Mr. and Mrs. Jack Franzen - Thought shots came from area adjacent to TSBD.
8.  Buell Wesley Frazier - Thought shots came from railroad overpass.
9.  Dorthy Ann Garner - Thought shots came from west of TSBD (she was on 4th floor or TSBD)
10. Bobby W. Hargis - Believes shot came from right front (grassy knoll area) - from overpass
11. Mrs. John Hawkins - Thought shots came from railroad yards adjacent to TSBD.
12. Mrs. Jean Lollis Hill - Thought shots were coming from the knoll, just west of the TSBD.
13. Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes - Thought shots came from crowd.
14. Mrs. Yola D. Hopson - Did not think the sound (of the shots) came from the TSBD.
15. Emmet Joseph Hudson - Shots came from behind and above him; from rear, high. (He was on steps leading up knoll)
16. Mrs. George Andrew Kounas - Thought shots came from the west.
17. Secret Service Agent Paul E. Landis Jr. - 1st shot came from behind and over right shoulder; 2nd shot came from right   front and hit President's head.
18. Billy Nolan Lovelady - Thought shots came from the knoll of from across the street.
19. Judith L. McCully - From right side of arcade building.
20. Austin Lawerence Miller - Shots came from his left (he was standing on the triple underpass).
21. A. J. Millican - Shots came from the pergola.
22. Joe R. Molina - Shots came from west side (he was on steps of TSBD.
23. Thomas J. Murphy - Shots came from spot just west of TSBD.
24. Mrs. P. E. Newman - Shots came from her right (west). She was halfway from TSBD to Stemmons Freeway sign.
25. William E Newman, Jr. - Shots came from "garden" directly behind Newman (he was standing at east end of pergola)
26. Mrs. William V. Parker - First shot came from pergola.
27. J. C. Price - Assumed shots from Triple Underpass.
28. Frank E. Reilly - Shots came from trees at west end of pergola on north side of Elm. (He was standing on                  Triple Underpass). 
29. Mrs. A. L. Rowland - Shots came from railroad yard.
30. W. H. (Bill) Shelly - Shots came from west (he was on TSBD steps)
31. Police Officer Edgar Leon Smith, Jr. - Shots came from railroad yard or grassy knoll area.
32. Officer Joe Marshall Smith - Thought shots came from Elm St.extension, bushes of the overpass.
33. Secret Service Agent Forrest Sorrels - Shots came from knoll;'top of terrace to my right.
34. James Thomas Tague - Shots came from bushes at pergola.
35. Roy S. Truly - Shots came from west of TSBD.
36. Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford - Shots came from railroad yard.
37. County Surveyor Robert M. West - Shots came from northeast quadrant of Dealy Plaza.
38. Lupe Whitaker - Shots came from west of TSBD.
39. Otis Neville Williams - Came from direction of Triple Underpass.
40. Steven F. Wilson - Shots came from west end of building or pergola; not above.
    (He was on 3rd floor of TSBD)

41. Mary Elizabeth Woodward - Possibly came from overpass.
42. Abraham Zapruder - Shots came from in back of him.
43. Deputy Sheriff Harold Elkins

Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Gary Craig on September 18, 2019, 07:06:27 PM
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Where did posts from March 2018 suddenly appear from. I thought all previous posts before the hacking had been lost.

I remember logging on and having to re-register after the hack but can't recall the exact time.
What was the date of the hacking?
When was the rebuild?
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: John Iacoletti on September 18, 2019, 07:30:31 PM
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I remember logging on and having to re-register after the hack but can't recall the exact time.
What was the date of the hacking?
When was the rebuild?

The restart was early January, 2018.  January 5th or 6th.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Ray Mitcham on September 18, 2019, 07:31:17 PM
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I remember logging on and having to re-register after the hack but can't recall the exact time.
What was the date of the hacking?
When was the rebuild?

Can't remember Gary, sorry. Maybe Duncan can help.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Gary Craig on September 18, 2019, 07:32:11 PM
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Do people really believe there was a shooter on the overpass with the witnesses there and no one noticed someone firing a rifle beside them?

Do people really believe that there was a shooter on the knoll with the witnesses there and no one noticed someone firing a rifle beside them?

Like, the 3 men on the steps, none of them heard a rifle being fired 10 feet behind their heads? Either did Marilyn Sitzman? A shooter mere feet away yet she didn't notice.

"I would have heard the sounding of the gun much closer, and I probably had a ringing in my head because the fence was quite close to where we were standing, very close"

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qB64sjleNYw/WGMqFkG690I/AAAAAAAAAaQ/8jtXjjfWtIIR3i_DnSuPDLCUOIIknhvQgCLcB/s640/Muchmore+2.gif)


http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=35&relPageId=304

Mr. Hargis: I was at the left-hand side of the Presidential Limousine.
Mr. Stern: Riding next to Mrs. Kennedy?
Mr. Hargis: Right.

....Well at the time it sounded like the shots were right next to me. There wasn't
anyway in the world I could tell where they were coming from but at the time there
was something in my head that said that they probably could have been coming from the
 railroad overpass, because I thought since I had got splattered with blood-I was just
a little back and left of-just a little back and left of Mrs. Kennedy, but I didn't know.
I had a feeling that it might have been from the Texas Book Depository. and these places
was the primary place that could have been shot from....

....I ran across the street looking over towards the railroad overpass and I remembered
seeing people scattering and running and then I looked--...

.....and then I looked over to the Texas School Book Depository Building, and no one that
was standing at the base of the building was--seemed to be looking up at the building or
anything like they knew where the shots were coming from, so.....

.....Well, then, I thought since I had looked over at the Texas Book Depository and some
people looking out of the windows up there, didn't seem like they knew what was going on,
but none of them were looking towards or near anywhere the shots had been fired from.....


------------------------------------------------------

Motorcade cop tells how it happened B.W. Hargis
Sunday News (New York) 24 November 1963


“Motorcade Cop Tells How It Happened,” Sunday News (New York), 24 November 1963, p.25:

Dallas, Nov. 23 (Special) - B. W. Hargis, 31, Dallas motorcycle patrolman who was riding
in President Kennedy’s motorcade, gave this account today of the assassination:
 
“We turned left onto Elm St. off Houston, about half a block from where it happened. I was
right alongside the rear fender on the left hand side of the President’s car, near Mrs. Kennedy.
 
When I heard the first explosion, I knew it was a shot. I thought that Gov. Connally had been
hit when I saw him turn toward the President with a real surprised look.

The President then looked like he was bent over or that he was leaning toward the Governor, talking to him.
 
As the President straightened back up, Mrs. Kennedy turned toward him, and that was when he got hit in the side of his head,
spinning it around.

I was splattered with blood.
 
Then I felt something hit me. It could have been concrete or something, but I thought at first I might have been hit.
Then I saw the limousine stop, and I parked my motorcycle at the side of the road, got off and drew my gun.
 
Then this Secret Service agent (in the President’s car) got his wits about him and they took off. The
motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward and announced to the chief that
the President had been shot.”

Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Gary Craig on September 18, 2019, 07:36:17 PM
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The restart was early January, 2018.  January 5th or 6th.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Where did the head shot come from?
Post by: Gary Craig on September 18, 2019, 07:38:42 PM
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Can't remember Gary, sorry. Maybe Duncan can help.

Looks like 3/18 was after the restart, per John.