JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Duncan MacRae on December 01, 2023, 11:13:28 AM
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As I prove in my book, we have much better evidence of an Oswald-Ferrie connection than Raymond Cummings' account, although Cummings' account is good evidence. Cummings came forward with great reluctance, made no effort to get publicity via journalists or newspapers, and only shared his account with law enforcement authorities. He was a former Marine and a former police officer.
Naturally, WC apologists, who always say that "if there had been a conspiracy, someone would have talked," have vehemently attacked Cummings, calling him a liar and even a thief. They also point out that he failed his polygraph, but they never mention that his polygrapher was found to have falsified the results of some of his other polygraphs.
WC apologists will bend over backward to believe dubious pro-WC witnesses, such as Howard Brennan and Jack Tatum. They'll ignore the glaring problems with their accounts, but they treat anti-WC witnesses much differently.
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The truth about Raymond Cummings:
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/325b1c_bba4634e6a124640b5df90e494ac7d2a~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_617,h_936,al_c,q_85,enc_auto/325b1c_bba4634e6a124640b5df90e494ac7d2a~mv2.jpg)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-a-cabbie-take-oswald-and-ferrie-to-ruby-s-nightclub (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-a-cabbie-take-oswald-and-ferrie-to-ruby-s-nightclub)
fred
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Ferrie flew Marcello back to the USA, and lied about not knowing Oswald until that picture was released. Ferrie, Banister, and Oswald were hanging out in New Orleans. Just a ton of evidence.
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Nonsense. Ferrie always said that Oswald was sort of familiar. It was other CAP members who told Ferrie that
Oswald was there with him at CAP for a short period. Ferrie then went to the FBI and told them, yes,
I was with Oswald. How often does a suspect do that?
Here is the truth about Ferrie:
This picture was taken in 1955 when Lee Harvey Oswald was just 15 years old. You can see David Ferrie on the left
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/325b1c_84aa014eb39c45df8910bc9e9d9b22c1~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_740,h_540,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/325b1c_84aa014eb39c45df8910bc9e9d9b22c1~mv2.jpg)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-know-lee-harvey-oswald (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-know-lee-harvey-oswald)
fred
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The truth about Raymond Cummings:
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/325b1c_bba4634e6a124640b5df90e494ac7d2a~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_617,h_936,al_c,q_85,enc_auto/325b1c_bba4634e6a124640b5df90e494ac7d2a~mv2.jpg)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-a-cabbie-take-oswald-and-ferrie-to-ruby-s-nightclub (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-a-cabbie-take-oswald-and-ferrie-to-ruby-s-nightclub)
fred
I address these attacks in my book.
I think anyone who watches Cummings' interview will conclude that he was a sincere and reluctant witness.
I am surprised at the use of the Clay Shaw defense attorney memo on Shaw, given what we have known for years about the sleazy tactics employed by Shaw's defense team (of course, some of Garrison's tactics weren't much better, admittedly). Plus, the memo contradicts itself. First it says that cab company records show that Cummings was not employed at the time of his reported trip, but then it says that Cummings' log for the trip says nothing about making a trip with Oswald and Ruby to Ruby's club. Which is it?
The Shaw defense team's anti-Cummings memo makes a lot of accusations but provides little actual evidence to support them. Regarding Cummings' "failed" polygraphy test, I repeat the point that the polygrapher was later found to have falsified several of his other polygraphs.
It should be noted that when Garrison's staff showed Cummings pictures of Clay Shaw and asked if Shaw was the third passenger, Cummings said no, the Shaw picture was not the third passenger. If Cummings had wanted to embellish and make his account even more appealing to Garrison, he could have said yes, but he said no.
When you're dealing with this level of society, that stratum of society, the witnesses you find will often have spotty backgrounds, will be less than Boy Scouts, but that doesn't mean that everything they say is false. And, after all, Cummings was a former Marine and a former police officer. His attackers have made many accusations against him, most of which have no direct bearing on his account but are mainly character attacks, and they have produced little evidence to actually document those charges that do involve his account.
Contrary to Shaw's defense team memo, Cummings never gave any sign of being a "publicity seeking nut." No one who watches his interview can reach that conclusion. Recall that Cummings never sought out a journalist or a newspaper. In fact, he tried to avoid publicity, only contacted law enforcement people, and just wanted to share his account and return to his normal life. That is not the behavior of a "publicity seeking nut."
It is curious how many times pro-conspiracy witnesses were accused of being "nuts," "unstable," etc. For example, FBI and CIA elements accused Elena Garro of being crazy and unstable because she insisted that she saw Oswald in Mexico City with several other people, two of them known Communists, at a time when the real Oswald was not there, according to the official account of his movements. Moreover, Garro had corroborating witnesses and evidence to back up her story. Garro moved in the upper circles of Mexican society. She was an intellectual, a screenwriter, and an award-winning novelist. But these facts didn't stop certain people in the CIA and the FBI from accusing her of being "nuts."
Mary Haverstick deals with Garro's account in detail in her new book A Woman I Know.
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What sleazy tactics of Shaw's defense team.
As you know, there was no discovery in Louisiana Courts at the time.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/clay-shaw-s-lawyers-faced-an-unfair-fight (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/clay-shaw-s-lawyers-faced-an-unfair-fight)
Shaw had to finance detectives to run down every lead in the press. They had no access to Garrison's
investigative files. So, they talked to Holland McComb who gave them information, which was
reported by Wegmann.
Garrison wouldn't dare call Cummings as a witness in the Shaw trial. And Garrison didn't
mention him in his book.
The Criminal Intelligence file speaks to Cummings' credibility.
His whole story was ridiculous from start to finish.
fred
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What sleazy tactics of Shaw's defense team.
As you know, there was no discovery in Louisiana Courts at the time.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/clay-shaw-s-lawyers-faced-an-unfair-fight (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/clay-shaw-s-lawyers-faced-an-unfair-fight)
Shaw had to finance detectives to run down every lead in the press. They had no access to Garrison's
investigative files. So, they talked to Holland McComb who gave them information, which was
reported by Wegmann.
Garrison wouldn't dare call Cummings as a witness in the Shaw trial. And Garrison didn't
mention him in his book.
The Criminal Intelligence file speaks to Cummings' credibility.
His whole story was ridiculous from start to finish.
fred
Given the considerable evidence that Ferrie and Oswald knew each other and worked together at times, I don't see anything automatically ridiculous about Cummings' straightforward account that he drove Oswald and Ferrie in his cab to Ruby's club. Cummings never claimed he heard them talking about anything sinister. He declined to ID Clay Shaw as the third passenger. There was nothing exotic or unusual about his account.
When Cummings came forward, he did so only after seeing Ferrie's picture in a newspaper and reading that Ferrie denied being in Dallas in 1963. Cummings sought no publicity, and his videotaped statements make it clear he wanted no publicity. His account contained no exotic claims, just a brief report that he once drove Ferrie and Oswald to Ruby's club and that on a previous occasion he had happened to pick up Oswald at a bus station and drove him to a house. He also mentioned that during the second cab ride, Oswald mentioned that he remembered Cummings from the previous ride a few weeks earlier--again, entirely ordinary and plausible.
What's more, when Cummings spoke with the New Orleans DA's office, he admitted to having been arrested, and he gave his side of the story. Also, Cummings volunteered to take a polygraph if Garrison's office would pay his fare to New Orleans. People who are trying to pawn off a false story rarely volunteer to take a polygraph. Additionally, no actual cab records were ever produced that disproved Cummings' account. Claims were made to this effect, but Cummings' attackers never managed to produce any actual cab records that refuted his account.
Garrison later changed his mind about Cummings after he realized that the polygrapher who had done his poly exam was questionable.
I find Cummings' videotaped statements convincing evidence that he was a sincere witness who was reluctantly coming forward because he thought it was the right thing to do. HIs videotaped interviews certainly give no indication that he was any kind of a "nut."
I find it curious that those who choose to disbelieve Cummings' account and to attack his character are willing to accept Jack Ruby's claims about why he shot Oswald, about whether he was involved in the assassination, about whether he was at Parkland Hospital soon after the shooting, about how he entered the police station, and about why he was following Oswald around with a gun in his pocket. Ruby was a violent thug with a long history of criminal activity, far worse than Cummings' life history, yet WC believers take his word even when several reputable witnesses contradict it.
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There is no evidence that Oswald and Ferrie knew each other.
Yes, they are in a photograph from 1955, but Ferrie always
admitted that Oswald was vaguely familiar.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-know-lee-harvey-oswald (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-know-lee-harvey-oswald)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-introduce-jack-martin-to-lee-harvey-oswald-in-banister-s-office (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-introduce-jack-martin-to-lee-harvey-oswald-in-banister-s-office)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-david-ferrie-s-library-card (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-david-ferrie-s-library-card)
fred
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There is no evidence that Oswald and Ferrie knew each other.
Yes, they are in a photograph from 1955, but Ferrie always admitted that Oswald was vaguely familiar.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-know-lee-harvey-oswald (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-know-lee-harvey-oswald)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-introduce-jack-martin-to-lee-harvey-oswald-in-banister-s-office (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-introduce-jack-martin-to-lee-harvey-oswald-in-banister-s-office)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-david-ferrie-s-library-card (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-david-ferrie-s-library-card)
fred
There is a veritable mountain of evidence that Oswald and Ferrie knew each other. Even Dr. David Kaiser acknowledges that there is clear evidence that Oswald and Ferrie knew each other. The Clinton witnesses alone should convince any objective observer that the two knew each other. I find it impossible to dismiss all the eyewitness accounts of Oswald and Ferrie being together as "mistaken," especially given Ferrie's unique, unforgettable appearance and Oswald's nearly universal post-assassination face recognition.
I present some of the evidence of an Oswald-Ferrie association in my book.
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You might want to read my series on Clinton. I have now presented eight parts with about twelve to go.
Ferrie, Shaw and Oswald were NOT in Clinton.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/was-david-ferrie-in-clinton (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/was-david-ferrie-in-clinton)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/the-origin-of-the-clinton-jackson-stories (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/the-origin-of-the-clinton-jackson-stories)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/why-did-the-clinton-jackson-witnesses-not-come-forward (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/why-did-the-clinton-jackson-witnesses-not-come-forward)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/the-clinton-jackson-witnesses-and-the-ku-klux-klan (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/the-clinton-jackson-witnesses-and-the-ku-klux-klan)
There is more on my site. I have a major bombshell that is coming soon on Clinton.
Stay tuned.
fred
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You might want to read my series on Clinton. I have now presented eight parts with about twelve to go.
Ferrie, Shaw and Oswald were NOT in Clinton.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/was-david-ferrie-in-clinton (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/was-david-ferrie-in-clinton)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/the-origin-of-the-clinton-jackson-stories (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/the-origin-of-the-clinton-jackson-stories)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/why-did-the-clinton-jackson-witnesses-not-come-forward (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/why-did-the-clinton-jackson-witnesses-not-come-forward)
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/the-clinton-jackson-witnesses-and-the-ku-klux-klan (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/the-clinton-jackson-witnesses-and-the-ku-klux-klan)
There is more on my site. I have a major bombshell that is coming soon on Clinton.
Stay tuned.
fred
I've read those articles. I think they engage in a lot of severe nit-picking and special pleading, and that they ignore the weight of the evidence, especially given the status of the Clinton witnesses.
Regarding the photo that proves that Ferrie and Oswald were in the same CAP unit, we should remember that the man who took that photo, fellow CAP member Chuck Frances, told the FBI that Oswald and Ferrie knew each other (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/glimpses-of-a-life/ (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/glimpses-of-a-life/)).
Yet, when Ferrie was questioned after the assassination, he falsely claimed he never knew Oswald. No one yet knew at that point that Ferrie and Oswald had served in the same small CAP unit together. Why did Ferrie lie about knowing Oswald? Why didn't Ferrie just say, "Oh, he was in my CAP unit back in the late 1950s, but I haven't seen him since"? Why the false claim that he had never known Oswald?
It should be remembered that when the Secret Service briefly interviewed Ferrie shortly after his suspicious "skating trip" to Houston on the night of the assassination, they asked him if he had ever loaned his library card to Oswald. Obviously, they would not have asked him this question if they had not had a reason to believe he did or may have done so--you can't loan your library card to someone you've never been around.
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You clearly have not read my article:
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-know-lee-harvey-oswald (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-know-lee-harvey-oswald)
Ferrie did tell the FBI that Oswald was vaguely familiar. His friends told him he had briefly served
with Oswald in CAP. Then Ferrie actually called the FBI and told them, yes, I was with Oswald.
Fred
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I address these attacks in my book.
I think anyone who watches Cummings' interview will conclude that he was a sincere and reluctant witness.
Sincere?
Mr CUMINGS. We talked at length on the way to the address he had given me, several months later and to the best of my memory....
From the video in the OP.
Oswald hardly spoke at all, much less with people he didn't know, and Cummings says that several months later out of the possible hundreds of passengers* later he recognizes Oswald from seeing Oswald that one solitary time?
Mr. BALL - On the way back and forth did you talk very much to each other?
Mr. FRAZIER - No. sir: not very much. lie is. probably in your line of business you have probably seen a lot of guys who talk a lot and some don't and he was one of these types that just didn't talk.
Mr. BALL. Is that what you said?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that is not what I said, but that is the reason I didn't call one at the time and I asked him where he wanted to go. And he said, "500 North Beckley."
Well, I started up, I started to that address, and the police cars, the sirens was going, running crisscrossing everywhere, just a big uproar in that end of town and I said, "What the hell. I wonder what the hell is the uproar?"
And he never said anything. So I figured he was one of these people that don't like to talk so I never said any more to him.
*While not conclusive, Whaley had about 20 passengers on the 22nd of November.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TPp340S4/Whaley-time-sheet.jpg)
JohnM
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You clearly have not read my article:
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-know-lee-harvey-oswald (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-david-ferrie-know-lee-harvey-oswald)
Ferrie did tell the FBI that Oswald was vaguely familiar. His friends told him he had briefly served
with Oswald in CAP. Then Ferrie actually called the FBI and told them, yes, I was with Oswald.
Fred
When Ferrie was first asked about Oswald, he insisted he had never known him.
Again, the CAP member who took the Oswald-Ferrie CAP photo, Chuck Frances, told the FBI that Oswald and Ferrie knew each other.
Literally dozens of other people stated that they saw Oswald and Ferrie together or that Oswald and Ferrie knew each other. I just don't buy the argument that they were all lying or mistaken.
One of the more compelling accounts came from INS officer Wendell Roache. Roache told the Church Committee that during INS surveillance, Oswald was seen going into the offices of David Ferrie’s anti-Castro group in New Orleans, and that “Oswald was known to be one of the men in the group," as I discuss and document in A Comforting Lie.
I agree with Dr. David Kaiser that “from all the available evidence it is clear that Oswald knew Ferrie, and Ferrie in turn was closely linked to both Marcello and the New Orleans anti-Castro Cuban community” (The Road to Dallas, p. 203). I recommend readers check out Kaiser's discussion on the Oswald-Ferrie link.
I get the feeling that WC apologists reject Cummings' account automatically, that they never actually give it serious consideration but reflexively start looking for any reason/excuse to reject it.
Cummings never sought to profit from coming forward. He never sought out journalists or newspapers. He went straight to law enforcement people. He made no exotic or wild claims. He just said, to paraphrase, "I drove the guy with the weird appearance and Oswald to the Carousel Club, along with a third man whom I can't identify, and a few months earlier I drove Oswald from the bus station to a house. When I drove Oswald and Ferrie and the other man to that club, Oswald mentioned that he remembered me from the previous trip." That's it. I think most objective people would consider that to be a believable, low-key, no-frills account.
I don't understand how anyone can watch Cummings' videotaped comments and conclude that he was insincere, much less that he was a "publicity-seeking nut."
As I mentioned, I find it curious that WC defenders gladly believe Jack Ruby's problematic claims about his motives, his entrance into the police basement, his obvious stalking of Oswald, his Mafia ties, his presence at Parkland Hospital soon after the shooting, and his involvement in the assassination, but they summarily reject Cummings' account and look for any reason to question his character.
Cummings never beat up anybody, but Ruby did. Cummings was not involved in gun running, but Ruby was. Cummings did not have extensive Mafia ties, but Ruby did. No reliable IRS informant ever said that Cummings had foreknowledge of JFK's murder, but a reliable IRS informant who worked undercover among Dallas underworld figures said that Ruby knew JFK was going to be killed (A Comforting Lie, pp. 28-30). Yet WC defenders believe Ruby and reject Cummings.
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Michael: You say:
"Literally dozens of other people stated that they saw Oswald and Ferrie together or that Oswald and Ferrie knew each other."
Who are these dozens? Lets go over them, one by one.
fred
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Michael: You say:
"Literally dozens of other people stated that they saw Oswald and Ferrie together or that Oswald and Ferrie knew each other."
Who are these dozens? Lets go over them, one by one. fred
I think we both know that would be an unproductive exercise. You know that I greatly respect your research on several other topics, but I think your mind is just closed shut on this issue. But, I would be curious to know what you think about Wendell Roache's statement to the Church Committee that INS surveillance saw Oswald going into the offices of David Ferrie’s anti-Castro group in New Orleans, and that “Oswald was known to be one of the men in the group."
And let's nail down the fact that Ferrie initially denied knowing Oswald to any degree. I quote from the summary of Ferrie's 11/25/63 FBI interview--note that Ferrie not only denied knowing Oswald but denied that Oswald was in his CAP unit:
FERRIE stated that he does not know LEE HARVEY OSWALD and to the best of his knowledge OSWALD was never a member of the CAP Squadron in New Orleans during the period he was with that group. . . .
FERRIE said that to the best of his knowledge he does not know any individual named LEE HARVEY OSWALD nor has he ever known the individual represented by photograph presented to him as that of LEE HARVEY OSWALD in the CAP, in any business connection or in any social capacity. He said he does not recognized the name or the photograph as being anyone he has ever had any contact with at any time.
That seems crystal clear.
Regarding the claim that Ferrie said Oswald was "vaguely familiar" to him, Ferrie did *not* say this. Ferrie was talking about a profile-view photo of Oswald that he was shown, not about knowing Oswald in any way or to any degree. Ferrie was shown three photos of Oswald, including a profile-view picture. He said that the profile-view photo looked "vaguely familiar" but that the full-face view and full-length photos did *not* look familiar:
A photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans Police Department Number 112723 taken on August 9, 1963, showing a profile, full face and full length photograph of OSWALD was exhibited to FERRIE. FERRIE upon viewing the photograph stated that the profile view has a very vague familiarity to him but the full face and full length photographs of OSWALD are not familiar to him.
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So, you won't go over the witnesses who claim Oswald and ferrie knew each other. I wonder why.
Yes, Ferrie initially said to the best of his knowledge Oswald was not in his cap unit. That is indeed correct. Ferrie taught at the other CAP unit, and briefly
taught at the other. Why should he remember Oswald? Oswald was only there a few times, and he taught between 400 and 500 students over the years.
I don't suppose any substitute teacher I had would remember me.
As for Roache, he claimed that Ferrie had an office. This was untrue.
Look at all the stuff that Roache did not know:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=219712#relPageId=35&search=roache_and%20ferrie (https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=219712#relPageId=35&search=roache_and%20ferrie)
This is very weak stuff, and none of it from 1963.
fred
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So, you won't go over the witnesses who claim Oswald and ferrie knew each other. I wonder why.
Yes, Ferrie initially said to the best of his knowledge Oswald was not in his cap unit. That is indeed correct. Ferrie taught at the other CAP unit, and briefly
taught at the other. Why should he remember Oswald? Oswald was only there a few times, and he taught between 400 and 500 students over the years.
I don't suppose any substitute teacher I had would remember me.
As for Roache, he claimed that Ferrie had an office. This was untrue.
Look at all the stuff that Roache did not know:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=219712#relPageId=35&search=roache_and%20ferrie (https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=219712#relPageId=35&search=roache_and%20ferrie)
This is very weak stuff, and none of it from 1963.
fred
The CAP photo shows Oswald and Ferrie within 15 feet of each other in a small group. The guy who took that photo, Chuck Frances, told the FBI that Oswald and Ferrie knew each other.
So you think Wendell Roache's account is "weak stuff"? Really? That judgment smacks of extreme bias and a mind that is simply closed to objectively analyzing the evidence in this instance. Roache specified that INS surveillance observed Oswald going into the offices of David Ferrie’s anti-Castro group in New Orleans, and that “Oswald was known to be one of the men in the group." Describe for me how you think Roache could have been "mistaken" about such details.
And how do you know that Oswald did not have an office in the INS building? Why would Roache say this? What would give Roache the impression that Oswald had an office there? If Oswald was working undercover there, naturally there would be no trace of his having had an office there--it would have been under a different name. When I worked in military intelligence, I worked in places where we had CIA people working undercover--only a handful of higher-up people knew who they were; those of us who worked "on the floor" had no idea who they were.
"All the stuff that Roache did not know"? Is that how you judge witnesses? The fact that a witness does not claim to know everything is usually taken as an indication of veracity. How does the fact that there were several things that Roache did not know impugn his matter-of-fact statement that INS surveillance observed Oswald going into the offices of David Ferrie’s anti-Castro group in New Orleans, and that “Oswald was known to be one of the men in the group"? Again, describe for me a reasonable scenario where Roache could have been "mistaken" about such specific information.
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Here is part of my chapter on Oswald and Ferrie from my online book Hasty Judgment:
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Posner knows it is crucial for his case that he prove that Oswald was not associated with David Ferrie, "since Ferrie had extensive anti-Castro Cuban contacts and also did some work for an attorney for Carlos Marcello. . . ." (6:142). Another reason Posner must deny Ferrie and Oswald knew each is that this was a key claim made by Jim Garrison. And, after all, one would hardly expect the supposedly left-wing Oswald to be associating with the likes of David Ferrie. Not only was Ferrie reportedly a CIA contact, but he was heavily involved in CIA-backed anti-Castro operations and had close ties to right-wing Mafia kingfish Carlos Marcello. And Ferrie made no secret of his passionate hatred of Kennedy. On one occasion, Ferrie was heard to remark that Kennedy "ought to be shot" (28:174).
So a Ferrie-Oswald relationship poses serious problems for Posner. Posner probably wouldn't mind linking Oswald to someone who expressed violent sentiments against JFK (even though Oswald, by all accounts, thought highly of the President), but he doesn't dare connect Oswald to Ferrie, for if Oswald was the Castro-loving ultra-leftist that Posner says he was, why on earth would he have been associating with a rabid right-winger who had ties to the Mafia and the CIA?
Therefore, Posner asserts that there is "no credible evidence" that Oswald knew David Ferrie (6:148). . . .
Posner denies that Ferrie and Oswald knew each other in the New Orleans Civil Air Patrol (CAP) in 1955. He claims that CAP records show that Ferrie's 1955 CAP membership renewal request was rejected (6:143). But Ferrie formed his own CAP unit, and it was this unit to which Oswald belonged. Most of the CAP records for Ferrie's squadron were stolen in late 1960. However, HSCA investigators "established that Ferrie's service with the Air Patrol fitted with that of Oswald" (14:301-302). The Select Committee "also identified no fewer than six witnesses whose statements tended to confirm that Oswald had been present at Patrol meetings attended by Ferrie" (14:302; cf. 12:375-376). One witness told Committee investigators,
Oswald and Ferrie were in the unit together. I'm not saying that they may have been there together. I'm saying it's a certainty. (14:302)
In addition, a former CAP cadet told the FBI that after the assassination Ferrie visited him to see if any old squadron photos pictured him and Oswald together (14:301).
Posner dismisses the testimony of the witnesses in Clinton and Jackson, Louisiana, who said they saw Oswald and Ferrie together in the summer of 1963 (6:141-148).
These highly credible witnesses included a state representative, a deputy sheriff, and a town registrar of voters. Posner's reasons for rejecting their testimony are strained and unconvincing. He even suggests the witnesses never actually saw Oswald. Jim Garrison and his staff found the Clinton and Jackson witnesses to be credible (19:122-126). Years later, the House Select Committee interviewed these witnesses in executive session and concluded they were honest, credible, and significant. The HSCA Report says the following on the matter:
While reports of some Oswald contacts with anti-Castro Cubans were known at the time of the 1964 investigation, allegations of additional Cuba-related associations surfaced in subsequent years. As an example, Oswald reportedly appeared in August-September 1963 in Clinton, La., where a voting rights demonstration was in progress. The reports of Oswald in Clinton were not, as far as the committee could determine, available to the Warren Commission, although one witness said he notified the FBI when he recognized Oswald from news photographs right after the assassination.
In fact, the Clinton sightings did not publicly surface until 1967, when they were introduced as evidence in the assassination investigation being conducted by New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison. In that investigation, one suspect, David W. Ferrie, a staunch anti-Castro partisan, died within days of having been named by Garrison; the other, Clay L. Shaw, was acquitted in 1969. Aware that Garrison had been fairly criticized for questionable tactics, the committee proceeded cautiously, making sure to determine on its own the credibility of information coming from his probe. The committee found that the Clinton witnesses were credible and significant. . . .
There were six Clinton witnesses, among them a State representative, a deputy sheriff and a registrar of voters. . . .
In addition to the physical descriptions they gave that matched that of Oswald, other observations of the witnesses tended to substantiate their belief that he was, in fact, the man they saw. For example, he referred to himself as "Oswald," and he produced his Marine Corps discharge papers as identification. Some of the witnesses said that Oswald was accompanied by two older men whom they identified as Ferrie and Shaw. (HSCA Report, pp. 142-143)
One of Ferrie's former roommates, Raymond Broshears, told author Dick Russell in 1975, in a recorded interview, that Ferrie and Oswald knew each other quite well. Among other things, Broshears said, "David told me Lee Harvey Oswald did not kill the President. He was very adamant about it, and I believed him. All the things he told me about Oswald, I doubt he could have shot a rabbit standing fifty feet away" (11:576).
In 1993 HSCA records were released that included a flight plan dated April 8, 1963 (HSCA RG 233). According to the flight plan, a pilot named Ferrie was listed as flying three passengers, named Hidell, Lambert, and Diaz, from New Orleans to Garland, Texas. "Hidell," of course, was an alias used by Oswald. There is evidence that Clay Shaw used the alias "Lambert" in addition to "Clay Bertrand." An affidavit accompanying the HSCA RG 233 document reports that a man named Edward J. Grinus stated in 1967 that one of Clay Shaw's aliases was Lambert. (Hasty Judgment, pp. 81-83, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JuHmh8_AXyoKFyCt0RPXEUoHDPy-qakz/view?usp=drive_link (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JuHmh8_AXyoKFyCt0RPXEUoHDPy-qakz/view?usp=drive_link))
--------------
-
Raymond Broshears? You've got to be kidding. He was the guy who went on television to say
that he channeled lee harvey oswald in a seance.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/exclusive-raymond-broshears-on-the-stan-bohrman-show-july-1968 (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/exclusive-raymond-broshears-on-the-stan-bohrman-show-july-1968)
I posted the tape of the show on Youtube. You can listen for yourself.
He was an incredible fabulist.
Read my various posts on Broshears:
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/blog/tags/raymond-broshears (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/blog/tags/raymond-broshears)
fred
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Raymond Broshears? You've got to be kidding. He was the guy who went on television to say
that he channeled lee harvey oswald in a seance.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/exclusive-raymond-broshears-on-the-stan-bohrman-show-july-1968 (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/exclusive-raymond-broshears-on-the-stan-bohrman-show-july-1968)
I posted the tape of the show on Youtube. You can listen for yourself.
He was an incredible fabulist.
Read my various posts on Broshears:
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/blog/tags/raymond-broshears (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/blog/tags/raymond-broshears)
fred
I would say you must be kidding. Abraham Lincoln participated in seances. Are you going to suggest that we summarily and automatically dismiss everything he said? Nancy Reagan believed in astrology and tried to persuade her husband to act based on astrological signs. Shall we therefore automatically dismiss everything she said?
Your approach toward pro-conspiracy witnesses is to pronounce them dishonest or unreliable if you find out anything negative or odd about them. Not even the most rigid, fanatical prosecutor would apply such an unreasonable standard to their witnesses.
Let's take a closer look at Raymond Broshears:
He enlisted in the Navy and was later discharged due to a head injury. He then attended a Bible college and became a traveling Pentecostal preacher in the early 1960s. He openly supported gay rights at a time when it was very unpopular to do so. He himself was a homosexual. He founded a group, the Lavender Panthers, dedicated to protecting gays from violence. In the mid-1960s, Broshears joined CORE, the Congress of Racial Equality. In the early 1970s, he founded the Helping Hands ministry in San Francisco to help poor people and to help people who were being exploited in sex work.
Broshears met David Ferrie in a bar in New Orleans, and Ferrie, a fellow homosexual, became friends with Broshears and eventually confided in Broshears about his personal life struggles and his relationship with Oswald. Broshears also claimed he had sex with Oswald, which cannot be summarily dismissed because, as many authors have documented, there is evidence that Oswald was bisexual.
If you Google "Raymond Broshears," you will find that he is still highly regarded by liberals and others for his work in the gay rights and civil rights movements in the '60s and '70s. Some examples:
http://www.tenderloinmuseum.org/public-programs-2019-2/2019/8/7/that-was-ray
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-controversial-gay-priest-who-brought-vigilante-justice-to-san-franciscos-streets-180982451/
Now, was Broshears an odd character? Certainly. Absolutely. But does this mean that we can therefore automatically reject his account of what David Ferrie told him? No, not by any reasonable standard of evidence, especially given the fact that his account is consistent with Ferrie's being a pilot, with Ferrie's highly suspicious trip to Houston on the day of the assassination, with the fact that other witnesses said that Ferrie and Oswald knew each other, and with the evidence that Oswald was bisexual.
For that matter, David Ferrie himself was rather odd and unusual, as I'm sure you know. He was not only odd, he was fired from Eastern Airlines for molesting young boys. He was arrested twice for morally depraved conduct. He kept dozens of mice in cages in his apartment. Yet, you accept his denials about knowing Oswald, and you reject every single person who said that Ferrie told them he knew Oswald or who said they saw Oswald with Ferrie.
I note that you keep ignoring the fact that Charles Frances, the CAP member took the CAP photo, told the FBI that Ferrie and Oswald knew each other. One gets the impression that you keep avoiding Frances' account because you don't have any dirt on Frances.
I note that you have opted not to address the point that another CAP member told the FBI that after the assassination Ferrie visited him to see if he had any old squadron photos that pictured him and Oswald together.
Yet another former CAP member told the New Orleans Police Department's Intelligence Division that he was in Oswald's CAP unit and that "Ferrie knew Oswald" (FBI memo, SA Regis Kennedy, FD 302, 11/25/63, file number 89-69-154).
I note that you also declined to address the fact that the FBI asked Ferrie if he had loaned his library card to Oswald. Now, why did they do this? Ferrie told his landlady, Lena Garner, that "they found my library card on Oswald."
Former CAP member Jerry Paradis told the HSCA that Oswald and Ferrie were “in the unit together” at ten or fifteen meetings. Paradis is the one who said, “I’m not saying that they may have been there together. I’m saying it was a certainty.”
I note that you also declined to address the fact that released HSCA records include a New Orleans to Garland (TX) flight plan dated 4/8/1963 (HSCA RG 233) that named the pilot as Ferrie and named his three passengers as Hidell (Oswald's alias), Lambert, and Diaz, and that an affidavit accompanying the HSCA RG 233 document reports that a man named Edward J. Grinus said one of Clay Shaw's aliases was Lambert. Try to figure the odds that these data could all be coincidences.
And your answer to all these witnesses is that they were all either lying or mistaken. That is just not a credible position. Dr. Stephen Knott, an ardent lone-gunman theorist and author of the recent book Coming to Terms with John F. Kennedy, acknowledges that the Ferrie and Oswald knew each other, and he argues that Oswald knew Ferrie because Oswald was a pro-Castro Marxist who was trying to infiltrate anti-Castro groups.
-
Michael: I am not ignoring anything you wrote. My preference is to discuss one item at a time.
For instance, here is my post on the library card:
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-david-ferrie-s-library-card (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-david-ferrie-s-library-card)
Let's go back to Raymond Broshears. Actually, he was not well liked in the gay community. He rubbed
everybody the wrong way.
I am not sure if you know about Stephen Roy (aka Blackburst) but he is the authority on David Ferrie. He was writing a book about David Ferrie, but unfortunately he died before it could be published. However, I am
fortunate to have a copy.
He spoke to Broshears about David Ferrie. He came away believing he was a fabulist. He did not know must about Ferrie and he did not know much about his apartment, although he was supposed to be a roommate.
https://www.jfk-online.com/dbraybropost.html
(https://www.jfk-online.com/dbraybropost.html)
If you read my posts, you can see many of the ridiculous stuff that Broshears told Garrison:
- Broshears had sex with Kerry Thornley and recognized his hips in the oswald backyard photographs.
- Hale Boggs was part of the conspiracy, and Clay Shaw was responsible for keeping Boggs in office.
- Two men from Garrison's office threatened Ferrie in 1965.
- Ferrie was working for a group of people who wanted to take over the United States.
- Ferrie told Broshears that Lyndon Johnson killed JFK.
- Broshears repeated the story about the two assassins being killed in a place crash in Corpus Christi - they were supposed to have been flown by Ferrie from Houston to South Africa.
- Broshears said that Ferrie said that Oswald was one of the best lays he ever had.
- Broshears said he threatened the life of Lyndon Johnson, and he was then detained in a VA psychiatric hospital in New Orleans.
- Perry Russo stole $2,300 from Clay Shaw.
- Broshears was threatened by Secret Service agents after appearing on the Bohrman TV show.
- Three people who worked in the TSBD were part of the cell that Oswald had infiltrated. Tippit was sent to kill Oswald because Oswald had infiltrated the cell for the FBI. Oswald had gone to Russia on work for the FBI.
- Ferrie met Jack Ruby in New Orleans.
- one of the tramps as possibly a gay hustler, or the tramp might have been the man who chauffeured Clay Shaw
- Edgar Eugene Bradley was one of he tramps.
- Broshears said he met thornley in a gay bar.
And then Broshears was interviewed by the HSCA, and he told more lies:
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/reverend-raymond-broshears-talks-to-the-hsca (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/reverend-raymond-broshears-talks-to-the-hsca)
He told the HSCA that Andrew Sciambra who worked for Garrison had David Ferrie killed.
And this the man you want to believe?????
fred
-
-
Michael: I am not ignoring anything you wrote. My preference is to discuss one item at a time.
For instance, here is my post on the library card:
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-david-ferrie-s-library-card (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/did-lee-harvey-oswald-have-david-ferrie-s-library-card)
Your article is a prime example of your draconian approach to pro-conspiracy witnesses, even ones who did not realize that their accounts were problematic for the lone-gunman theory.
You admit that Ms. Eames said that Ferrie came to her house asking about "whose library card Oswald had." You also concede that Ms. Garner said that Ferrie came to her house as well. Now, let's stop right there. Let's stop and think about this. Why, why, oh why, would Ferrie have taken the time to go to Ms. Eames' house and ask her about "whose library card Oswald had"?! And why did he visit another person who knew Oswald, Ms. Garner, apparently for the same reason? Why? If Ferrie did not know Oswald, what on earth was going on here?
You reject the Eames and Garner accounts as irrelevant, coincidental, and innocent, if not mistaken. You jump on the fact that the women were not certain about the dates or because one of them gave a date when Ferrie could not have been there. Then, you opine, via Roy, that Ferrie may have visited the women to ask about his library card/what library card Oswald had for an innocent reason, namely, that Ferrie merely thought it was possible that somehow Oswald had ended up with one of his old library cards from his CAP days.
Now how would Oswald have "just happened" to have ended up with Ferrie's library card from his and Ferrie's CAP days? Describe for me a scenario in which this could have plausibly occurred, especially given your claim Ferrie did not know Oswald. Was Ferrie in the habit of brandishing his library card and leaving it behind during CAP meetings? I mean, how could this have happened?
I remember when I had a library card. The only time I would ever take it out of my wallet was when I went to the library--otherwise, I had no reason to take it out of my wallet.
Let's go back to Raymond Broshears. Actually, he was not well liked in the gay community. He rubbed everybody the wrong way.
I am not sure if you know about Stephen Roy (aka Blackburst) but he is the authority on David Ferrie. He was writing a book about David Ferrie, but unfortunately he died before it could be published. However, I am
fortunate to have a copy.
He spoke to Broshears about David Ferrie. He came away believing he was a fabulist. He did not know must about Ferrie and he did not know much about his apartment, although he was supposed to be a roommate.
https://www.jfk-online.com/dbraybropost.html
(https://www.jfk-online.com/dbraybropost.html)
If you read my posts, you can see many of the ridiculous stuff that Broshears told Garrison:
- Broshears had sex with Kerry Thornley and recognized his hips in the oswald backyard photographs. [MG: Given Thornley's character and record, why is this "ridiculous"?]
- Hale Boggs was part of the conspiracy, and Clay Shaw was responsible for keeping Boggs in office. [MG: Did Broshears claim to have actual knowledge of this, or was he speculating? Given Clay Shaw's wealth and standing, is it so wild that Broshears may have believed Shaw kept Boggs in office?]
- Two men from Garrison's office threatened Ferrie in 1965. [MG: Okay, and you know this is absolutely false how? This claim is mild compared to some of the bogus claims that Garrison's critics made about him.]
- Ferrie was working for a group of people who wanted to take over the United States. [MG: Uh, what is "ridiculous" about this? Ferrie had extensive Mafia ties and publicly called for JFK's execution. Ferrie was also involved with Guy Banister and CIA-backed anti-Castro operations. Jack Ruby, of all people, toward the end of his life, indicated that those who had used him were part of an effort to take over the government.]
- Ferrie told Broshears that Lyndon Johnson killed JFK. [MG: Lots of people had already reached the same conclusion, including the KGB. And, again, was Broshears claiming he "knew" this from inside information, or was he expressing his opinion?]
- Broshears repeated the story about the two assassins being killed in a place crash in Corpus Christi - they were supposed to have been flown by Ferrie from Houston to South Africa.[MG: Okay, and why is this automatically "ridiculous"? Ferrie was an accomplished pilot who sometimes made plane trips in the service of criminal or covert operations. Other than your aversion to multiple assassins, why is this account automatically far-fetched? Just because Broshears repeated the story because he believed it was true does not disqualify him as a witness.]
- Broshears said that Ferrie said that Oswald was one of the best lays he ever had. [MG: Okay, and why is this "ridiculous"? There is considerable evidence that indicates that Oswald was bisexual. Plus, Broshears' comment may have just been playful hyperbole.]
- Broshears said he threatened the life of Lyndon Johnson, and he was then detained in a VA psychiatric hospital in New Orleans. [MG: Yes, so does the fact that he did this and that he therefore drew the attention of law enforcement mean that every statement he made about Ferrie and Oswald is false?]
- Perry Russo stole $2,300 from Clay Shaw. [MG: Okay, why is this automatically "ridiculous"?]
- Broshears was threatened by Secret Service agents after appearing on the Bohrman TV show. [MG: Okay, and why is this automatically "ridiculous"? We know the Secret Service made implied threats against, and placed enormous pressure on, Dr. Perry to get him to change his diagnosis of the throat wound. His good friend Audrey Bell confirmed this to the ARRB.]
- Three people who worked in the TSBD were part of the cell that Oswald had infiltrated. Tippit was sent to kill Oswald because Oswald had infiltrated the cell for the FBI. Oswald had gone to Russia on work for the FBI. [MG: Humm, well, Tippit most certainly appears to have been looking for Oswald--he was far out of his assigned area and had no plausible reason to be there. Oswald was clearly a false defector, and although his sponsor probably was not the FBI, it was another intel entity. And, there were some straing goings-on at the TSBD in the months leading up to the assassination. Plus, again, did Broshears claim that he knew these things from firsthand inside knowledge, or was he theorizing?]
- Ferrie met Jack Ruby in New Orleans. [MG: Entirely plausible and credible.]
- One of the tramps as possibly a gay hustler, or the tramp might have been the man who chauffeured Clay Shaw. [MG: Again, was Broshears saying he knew this from firsthand inside knowledge, or was he passing on hearsay, or was he speculating?]
- Edgar Eugene Bradley was one of he tramps. [MG: Certainly, he got this wrong, since Brading was arrested in the Dal-Tex Building for acting suspiciously right after the assassination. One incorrect claim does not mean we can automatically dismiss everything Broshears said about Ferrie and Oswald, etc.]
- Broshears said he met thornley in a gay bar. [MG: And? Thornley admitted that he spent time in the New Orleans French Quarter, so why is this automatically "ridiculous"?]
And then Broshears was interviewed by the HSCA, and he told more lies: [MG: Were they all "lies"? Really?]
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/reverend-raymond-broshears-talks-to-the-hsca (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/reverend-raymond-broshears-talks-to-the-hsca)
He told the HSCA that Andrew Sciambra who worked for Garrison had David Ferrie killed. [MG: Well, gee, this is not too far removed from some of the wild claims that Shaw's defense team and their allies in the media made about Garrison and his staff. Here, too, did Broshears claim that he knew this for a fact from firsthand inside information, or was he speculating or passing on rumors he'd heard?]
And this the man you want to believe????? fred
And so you conclude that Broshears never knew David Ferrie, period, and that every single statement he made about Ferrie was a fabrication? I just don't buy that. A few points:
One, as my bracketed comments argue, a number of the claims that you list as ridiculous and false are actually plausible and not so ridiculous. Exactly how would Broshears have known that Ferrie was gay, that Oswald was bisexual, that Thornley knew Oswald, that Thornley spent time in the New Orleans French Quarter, that Jack Ruby made several trips to New Orleans, and that Jack Ruby may well have been bisexual?
Two, just because Broshears exaggerated and fabricated, or wrongly speculated, on some points regarding Ferrie and Oswald, etc., does not mean that everything he said on the subject is false. You don't apply that all-or-nothing standard to non-conspiracy witnesses.
For instance, you don't apply that all-or-nothing standard to the sleazebag and scum Jack Ruby, who clearly lied about a number of things, not to mention his disreputable character and immoral conduct--yet you take Ruby's word on his associations, on his non-involvement in the assassination, on his stalking of Oswald, on his appearance at Parkland Hospital soon after the shooting, on how he entered the police basement, and on why he shot Oswald.
Three, Broshears certainly was highly regarded by at least some members of the gay rights movement at the time, and gay rights writers today who have commented on Broshears have spoken favorably of him. There an be no denying that Broshears did a lot of noble work for the poor and the persecuted. If we compare Broshears with Ruby, Broshears was not nearly as bad a character as Ruby and was more believable than Ruby.
Four, the following disclosures and facts should be considered when judging Broshears' statements:
-- The claim that Perry Russo did not mention the Shaw-Ferrie-Oswald meeting during his first interview with Garrison aide Andrew Sciambra is refuted by Lou Ivon's search warrant. Ivon's search warrant mentioned the meeting that Russo recounted to Sciambra, and it mentioned Shaw's use of the alias "Clay Bertrand." Crucially, the search warrant was written before Sciambra wrote his two memos on his interviews with Russo.
-- A CIA document reveals that Kerry Thornley was a CIA operative.
-- Douglas Jones was the owner of the Jones Printing Company that printed Oswald's pro-Castro leaflets in New Orleans. Jones identified multiple photos of Kerry Thornley as the man who picked up the leaflets. Jones said Thornley used the name "Lee Osborne," one of the fake names attributed to Oswald.
-- CIA documents reveal that Clay Shaw and David Ferrie were long-time CIA operatives. One CIA document reveals that Shaw worked for the CIA from 1949 through 1972, and that Shaw's CIA contact in New Orleans was Hunter Leake, who was second in command at the CIA's New Orleans field office.
-- Walter Sheridan, a Justice Department official who was helping Clay Shaw's defense team, was recorded threatening Perry Russo and then telling Russo he would get Russo a fake job in California and would give him a monthly check for five years if he would deny that he had seen Oswald with Shaw and Ferrie discussing an assassination plot.
-- When Garrison charged Sheridan with bribery and witness intimidation, Sheridan fled the state. Sheridan did not dare stand trial because his threats and bribery attempt against Russo were captured on an audio recording (Garrison had wisely wired Russo for Russo's meeting with Sheridan).
-- Several CIA documents reveal that Jack Martin worked for the CIA.
Finally, I should add that I am not a huge fan of Jim Garrison. I believe the record is clear that he was on the right track, but I acknowledge that he sometimes knowingly made false claims, that he sometimes purposely exaggerated, and that on a few occasions he used unethical methods.
-
What sleazy tactics of Shaw's defense team.
As you know, there was no discovery in Louisiana Courts at the time.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/clay-shaw-s-lawyers-faced-an-unfair-fight (https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/clay-shaw-s-lawyers-faced-an-unfair-fight)
Shaw had to finance detectives to run down every lead in the press. They had no access to Garrison's
investigative files. So, they talked to Holland McComb who gave them information, which was
reported by Wegmann.
Garrison wouldn't dare call Cummings as a witness in the Shaw trial. And Garrison didn't
mention him in his book.
The Criminal Intelligence file speaks to Cummings' credibility.
His whole story was ridiculous from start to finish.
fred
Curiously, Fred has not linked to or cited this recent post of his, in any of his posts on this forum.
Fred only displays the month and day he posted this,
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/gq-magazine-the-case-against-jim-garrison
Great read! A meeting of the minds of Fred Litwin and Jim DiEugenio.,
https://jfkfacts.org/provocative-prolific-joan-mellen/#comment-869223
TOM S.
APRIL 12, 2016 AT 1:25 PM
".....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-knckgt3ASNI/Vrd2i7xQ1aI/AAAAAAAACvc/m_y25b9LkuA/s512-Ic42/BaldwinFirstCousinCarpenter.jpg)
(Thomas B Lemann was the father of the man who does all of "the heavy lifting," Nicholas Lemann,in Fred's post, linked above.)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6e7iexAG0lM/Vrds4GJIGUI/AAAAAAAACvM/3WomDDWJrMw/s512-Ic42/BaldwinLemannStepsisterCarpenter.jpg)
"...............................
The best face I can put on this is that Garrison misled and failed to disclose to his friend, Joan Mellen, and editor of his own book, the co-writer of the JFK the movie screenplay, Zachary Sklar.
The most troubling thing I’ve learned is that almost no one seems to appreciate being exposed to this new information. They already knew what they knew and indicate a preference of not having to consider Garrison’s actual proximity to those even he described as CIA sponsored adversaries.
Garrison’s silence on this also provided an opening (unanswered by Garrison) for the belligerent nephew of Stepen B. Lemann who is also the step-nephew of wife of Lee Garrison’s first cousin and godfather David Baldwin.:
continued……"
-
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/gq-magazine-the-case-against-jim-garrison
Fred Litwin
Oct 5
18 min read
GQ Magazine - "The Case Against Jim Garrison"
The January 1992 issue of GQ featured an article by Nicholas Lemann titled "The Case Against Jim Garrison."
David Baldwin's MIL, Mildred Crumb Lyons Lemann, was the only paternal grandmother Nicholas B. Lemann knew.
http://files.usgwarchives.net/la/orleans/obits/1/l-11.txt
003004 Lemann – Mildred Crumb Lyons Lemann, A Homemaker, Died Friday At Her Home In New Orleans. She
Was 94. Mrs. Lemann Was A Lifelong Resident Of New Orleans. … In 1929, She Worked At Metairie Park
Country Day School, Where She Coordinated The School’s Non-Academic Activities. Survivors Include A Daughter,
Mildred Lyons Baldwin;
A Sister, Ethel Crumb Brett; Two Stepsons, Thomas B. Lemann, And Stephen B. Lemann; …. Times Picayune 01-14-1990
http://files.usgwarchives.net/la/orleans/obits/1/b-03.txt
000618 Baldwin – Mildred Lyons Baldwin, Age 79 Years, On Monday, August 12, 2002 At Touro Infirmary.
Mrs. Baldwin Attended Metairie Park Country Day School And William And Mary College. She Was An
Accomplished Classical Pianist Who Loved Chopin And Debussy. Other Interests Included Acting, Modern
Dance And Cooking. She Was The Wife Of The Late David G. Baldwin For 50 Years. ... Private Services Will Be Held. In Lieu Of
Flowers Memorial Contributions To Metairie Park Country Day School Would Be Appreciated. Times Picayune
08-13-2002
https://jfkfacts.org/who-was-the-only-man-to-ever-face-legal-charges-in-jfks-assassination/#comment-856848
JOHN MCADAMS
FEBRUARY 7, 2016 AT 7:48 PM
The back story in its simplest form is that David Baldwin’s wife, Mildred Lyons emerges as the stepdaughter of Monte Lemann, the stepsister of Stephen B. Lemann and his brother Thomas, (who is the father of Nicholas B. Lemann), the sister-in-law of Edward M. Baldwin, and the daughter-in-law of Adele Ziegler Baldwin Raworth, who was the sister of Harold J. Ziegler, father-in-law of Jim Garrison. David Gilmore Baldwin, III and his brother, attorney Edward M. Baldwin, were first cousins of Jim Garrison’s wife, Leah Elizabeth Ziegler Garrison.
"So Garrison’s critics, and Garrison himself were all part of the conspiracy!
They were all in on it.
Amazing find, Tom."
https://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/thread-15982-post-124532.html
01-09-2019, 09:51 PM
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:
"Tom, I like you personally and I think you usually do good work and I defended you when people were attacking your approach at EF.
But I am at a loss to explain how you fell for Carpenter. This is a guy who writes for Max Holland.....
IOW...
Quote:
I'll Do the Thinning Around Here, Baba Looey
(http://"https://grist.org/article/here/")
Well, enough time has passed now to reliably observe that Jim did a "drive by" on me. (Imagine how different this might have gone down if he did not like me....)
Isn't another way of saying what Jim conveyed to me?
Quote:
Tom, I like you personally.... unfortunately you are stupid enough to fall for the pronouncements of Max Holland's lackey, Donald Carpenter..."
-
I address these attacks in my book.
I think anyone who watches Cummings' interview will conclude that he was a sincere and reluctant witness.
I am surprised at the use of the Clay Shaw defense attorney memo on Shaw, given what we have known for years about the sleazy tactics employed by Shaw's defense team (of course, some of Garrison's tactics weren't much better, admittedly). -snip-
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PLEASE BEAR IN MIND THAT THE FACTS I'VE PRESENTED IN THIS THREAD SUPPORT TOM PURVIS'S OPINION GARRISON, TOM BETHELL, HIS FRIEND NICHOLAS LEMANN, HIS UNCLE, STEPHEN B. LEMANN, AND "THE CIA PEOPLE" AUTHOR JOAN MELLEN DESCRIBED TO REX BRADFORD IN A 2006 INTERVIEW, WERE ALL ON THE SAME SIDE, the smokescreen side.
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My bottom line about Cummings is fourfold: One, as I watch his video interview, he comes across to me as sincere and credible. Two, the dirt that Shaw's lawyers and other critics dug up on him is either questionable, unproven, or non-disqualifying--I might add that they accept the claims of anti-conspiracy witnesses with far more serious black marks on their records. Three, Cummings had no identifiable motive for fabricating his account, never sought any publicity, and never tried to make money from his account. Four, Cummings' account is devoid of sensational claims but is straightforward and believable, unless one is ardently committed to the dubious position that Ferrie and Oswald did not know each other.