JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Keyvan Shahrdar on March 08, 2018, 06:34:42 PM
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Have you ever wondered why the Babushka Lady has never been identified? Because the people who were involved in the assassination of JFK did not want to be found. Consider this, who in their right mind would admit to being involved in the assassination of a President of the USA? Even Oswald never admitted to being involved in the assassination of JFK. Anyone that has admitted to their supposed involvement in the assassination of JFK is probably looking for a book deal or notoriety where they can make money off it.
The Babushka Lady signaled the assassin team hiding in the pergola of the Grassy Knoll with a flashlight type device the go ahead and shoot signal. If the Babushka Lady could have confirmed that JFK was dead, the pergola shooters would not have taken those shots.
The three Tramps arrested in a railroad train boxcar at Dealey Plaza right after the assassination is the assassination team inside the pergola. They were seen by a railyard employee running to a railroad train boxcar 400 to 500 yards away from the pergola.
Here is a picture of two of the assassins as shown in a colorized version of the Mary Moorman photo inside the pergola at Dealey Plaza. To the right of the assassins, you can see Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitzman filming.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Hxx8TafILG4/UpJmJiQvswI/AAAAAAAAl5s/5ixp9qutulw/s1600/s_500_opednews_com_0_mary-moorman-polaroid-jpg_89485_20131121-894.gif)
Here are a series of Zapruder frames that show the Babushka lady turning on her flashlights to notify the assassins to shoot.
(https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z280.jpg)
(https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z288.jpg)
(https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z292.jpg)
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Yer new....and you are posting in the incorrect section of this forum, considering your topic/presentation.:
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/board,3.0.html
JFK Assassination Photographic Evidence Discussion & Debate
See how this works? Discussion in the instant section of the forum, photo interpretation at the link above.
Let us not let a now existing thread go to waste.....Beverly Oliver claims to be the Babushka Lady....
JFK Assassination Novel - Ancilliary Deaths
http://www.jfkassassinationnovel.com/ancilliary-deaths
George McGann. 1970. -Underworld figure connected to Ruby friends, wife, Beverly, took film in Dealey Plaza. -Killed in Big Springs, TX in mob-type execution in 1970. -In the wedding of Oliver and McGann - R. D. Matthews was best man -And R. D. Matthew's record speaks for itself. Murdered. Source: Big Spring (TX)
http://jfkforum.com/2018/03/08/meet-the-first-cousin-of-both-mary-bledsoe-and-rd-matthews/
MARCH 8, 2018 "?MEET? THE FIRST COUSIN OF BOTH MARY BLEDSOE AND RD MATTHEWS"
.......
In passing, who do you expect is buying what you are selling? Do you understand the difference between opinion and facts?
It is now settled that Mary Bledsoe had a familial connection with RD Matthews. What is your presentation settling, not to mention
the impact you are inflicting on your credibility? You are flirting with Mike Rago territory.....he "sees" an armed giant in Dealey Plaza.
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Bearing in mind that Zapruder and Sitman were within feet of the alleged shooters inside the shelter behind them, are you also claiming that Zapruder and Sitzman were part of the assassination/coverup? They Never reported hearing shot(s) having been fired from directly behind them.
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Yer new....and you are posting in the incorrect section of this forum, considering your topic/presentation.:
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/board,3.0.html
JFK Assassination Photographic Evidence Discussion & Debate
See how this works? Discussion in the instant section of the forum, photo interpretation at the link above.
Let us not let a now existing thread go to waste.....Beverly Oliver claims to be the Babushka Lady....
In passing, who do you expect is buying what you are selling? Do you understand the difference between opinion and facts.
It is now settled that Mary Bledsoe had a familial connection with RD Matthews. What is your presentation settling, not to mention
the impact you are inflicting on your credibility? You are flirting with Mike Rago territory.....he "sees" an armed giant in Dealey Plaza.
Maybe YOU missed the Topic of this Thread. This Thread centers on the Babushka Lady playing a part in the Conspiracy to assassinate JFK. This is worthy of DISCUSSION.
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Yer new....and you are posting in the incorrect section of this forum, considering your topic/presentation.:
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/board,3.0.html
JFK Assassination Photographic Evidence Discussion & Debate
See how this works? Discussion in the instant section of the forum, photo interpretation at the link above.
Let us not let a now existing thread go to waste.....Beverly Oliver claims to be the Babushka Lady....
In passing, who do you expect is buying what you are selling? Do you understand the difference between opinion and facts?
It is now settled that Mary Bledsoe had a familial connection with RD Matthews. What is your presentation settling, not to mention
the impact you are inflicting on your credibility? You are flirting with Mike Rago territory.....he "sees" an armed giant in Dealey Plaza.
Hi Tom,
Thank you for your reply.
I have done the following in this post:
1. Shown photographic evidence of shooters in the pergola.
2. Shown that the Babushka Lady turned some type of flashlights that pointed in the direction of the pergola.
3. Shown circumstantial evidence that the Babushka lady is part of a broader conspiracy to assassinate JFK.
It is up to the user to decide how to interpret this information I provided.
Certainly, your comments are welcomed if you agree to disagree with the information I posted here.
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So if you had been the Dallas County DA you would have arrested and charged the Babushka lady either with the murder of JFK or conspiracy to murder him?
And in court you would have presented (had it been available) the above as evidence for her crime?
And you would have let Lee Oswald go?
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Hi Royell,
The Nix film shows two shot fired from the pergola. One of the shots was fired from the third window up from the bottom and the other shot from the pergola walkway to the left of Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitzman. The Mary Moorman photo shows two gunmen in that location.
The following is what Mr. Zapruder said in his first interview.
You can read the whole transcript from the Sixth Floor Museum.
https://www.jfk.org/the-collections/abraham-zapruder-film/zapruder-interview-transcript/
"Zapruder: I say I must have been in the line of fire where I seen that picture where it was. I was right on that, uh, concrete block, as I said. And as I explained before, is a sickening scene. At first I thought perhaps it?s a, uh, it sounded like, uh, somebody make a joke, you hear a, a shot and somebody grabs their stomach."
The following is what Bill Newman has always said:
http://jfkfacts.org/what-was-going-through-my-mind-was-that-shot-was-coming-right-over-the-top-of-our-heads/
"I said ?No, that?s it? and I hit the ground because at that moment, what was going through my mind was that shot was coming right over the top of our heads.?
If you look at the Zapruder Film, there are two strong jiggles after zframe 313 and zframe 330, which the timing coincides with the shots seen in the Nix Film.
As for Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitzman involved in the assassination, I personally don't think so, but Ms. Sitzmans in an interview seems to be completely oblivious to these shots. Her interview concerns me as to why she would not mention those shots.
Here is her interview.
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Have you ever wondered why the Babushka Lady has never been identified? Because the people who were involved in the assassination of JFK did not want to be found. Consider this, who in their right mind would admit to being involved in the assassination of a President of the USA? Even Oswald never admitted to being involved in the assassination of JFK. Anyone that has admitted to their supposed involvement in the assassination of JFK is probably looking for a book deal or notoriety where they can make money off it.
The Babushka Lady signaled the assassin team hiding in the pergola of the Grassy Knoll with a flashlight type device the go ahead and shoot signal. If the Babushka Lady could have confirmed that JFK was dead, the pergola shooters would not have taken those shots.
The three Tramps arrested in a railroad train boxcar at Dealey Plaza right after the assassination is the assassination team inside the pergola. They were seen by a railyard employee running to a railroad train boxcar 400 to 500 yards away from the pergola.
Here is a picture of two of the assassins as shown in a colorized version of the Mary Moorman photo inside the pergola at Dealey Plaza. To the right of the assassins, you can see Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitzman filming.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Hxx8TafILG4/UpJmJiQvswI/AAAAAAAAl5s/5ixp9qutulw/s1600/s_500_opednews_com_0_mary-moorman-polaroid-jpg_89485_20131121-894.gif)
Here are a series of Zapruder frames that show the Babushka lady turning on her flashlights to notify the assassins to shoot.
(https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z280.jpg)
(https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z288.jpg)
(https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z292.jpg)
"who in their right mind would admit to being involved in the assassination of a President of the USA?"
Lunatics and zealots often tell the world that they have performed a great service by ridding society of a grave danger, after they murder a head of state.
"Oswald never admitted to being involved in the assassination of JFK."
Yes, you're right....In fact he steadfastly denied that he had killed anybody. And yet the official US government proclamation states that Lee Oswald was a NUT ( lunatic) .... So why didn't he fit the mold?
The answer is:...Lee Oswald was not a nut.....but he was a hapless young man who allowed those US government agents whom he trusted to set him up and frame him.
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Hi Steve,
Lee Harvey Oswald is as guilty as sin. Just because there is no photographic evidence does not mean that he was not involved. There is a preponderance of the evidence that he was involved. His rifle, his alias, documentation, fleeing the scene, ...
Just because he was the patsy does not mean that he is innocent.
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Personally ... I don't believe Beverly Oliver was in the plaza. I've listened to her talk about the assassination several times and the story she spouts doesn't sound like it comes from a first-hand witness. She gives me the impression of someone saying what she's heard happened. She was supposedly witness to something horrific ... considering the proximity she'd have been at. But she just comes across as someone trying to make a living from the story she might have gatecrashed.
Going by the company she was keeping - RD Mathews, Jack Ruby, Joseph Campisi, etc, wouldn't really be too hard to imagine she's just another chancer - like those lot.
Although, saying I don't believe she was there ... I was reading through an old thread about Jack Lawrence, and it was brought up by a researcher that Beverly Oliver claimed to have been dancing with JL at the Egyptian Lounge on the night before the assassination. She knew Ruby, RD, her old man was a mobster crook. What if she was really there, in the plaza, that she was filming the assassination knowing the big bucks a film of the event would give her/them. Kinda interesting theory.
Maybe the real Babushka lady was someone B. Oliver had heard was there for just that reason. Just in case the film ever turned up - she decided to fill the starring role.
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Hi Steve,
Lee Harvey Oswald is as guilty as sin. Just because there is no photographic evidence does not mean that he was not involved. There is a preponderance of the evidence that he was involved. His rifle, his alias, documentation, fleeing the scene, ...
Just because he was the patsy does not mean that he is innocent.
So you think he was willingly involved but as a cog in a larger conspiracy? And then was left to take the sole blame?
He was a patsy not in the sense of being innocent but in being abandoned? The fall guy? And that's why he was killed? To silence him?
But why let him be arrested - after all, he could talk - and then have to kill him?
Look at his behavior. Ten days before the assassination he goes to the FBI and leaves a rather provocative note. That's drawing attention to him. He's been watched and interviewed by the FBI because of his defection to the USSR. He's had run ins with the local authorities. He has to get to the assassination scene using a ride from a friend. He has four bullets and uses a rickety not well-maintained rifle. Why not give him a better weapon? And a more secure way to get to the building? And let's be blunt, Oswald is not exactly a guy you can rely on. He's a crank.
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Hi Steve,
Lee Harvey Oswald is as guilty as sin. Just because there is no photographic evidence does not mean that he was not involved. There is a preponderance of the evidence that he was involved. His rifle, his alias, documentation, fleeing the scene, ...
Just because he was the patsy does not mean that he is innocent.
His rifle, his alias, documentation, fleeing the scene, ...
There is no solid proof that the Lee Oswald owned that carcano in November of 1963...... Lee Oswald MAY? have ordered a carcano and used the name Hidell in March of 1963...Which was a time when he and George De Morhenschildt were preparing the hoax attempt to shoot General Walker. But that was nine months before JFK was murdered.... We have no idea where the carcano was in that period between April and November.
FLEEING?? the scene?? Yer jokin..... Sitting on a city transit bus that is parked would only be described as "Fleeing the scene" by someone who has taken leave of their senses......
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Hi Tom,
Thank you for your reply.
I have done the following in this post:
1. Shown photographic evidence of shooters in the pergola.
2. Shown that the Babushka Lady turned some type of flashlights that pointed in the direction of the pergola.
3. Shown circumstantial evidence that the Babushka lady is part of a broader conspiracy to assassinate JFK.
It is up to the user to decide how to interpret this information I provided.
Certainly, your comments are welcomed if you agree to disagree with the information I posted here.
If your presentation is not picture perfect for this forum venue:
JFK Assassination Photographic Evidence Discussion & Debate
.....what presentation would be?
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If your presentation is not picture perfect for this forum venue:
JFK Assassination Photographic Evidence Discussion & Debate
.....what presentation would be?
Strange, but this Thread seems to have generated a lot of DISCUSSION & DEBATE.
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Keyvan - Just remember that the Pergola Image you have posted has been colorized. Tread lightly when arriving at an opinion based on a JFK Assassination Image that has been monkeyed with. Also, Sitzman was interviewed by Tink Thompson for his 1966 Best Seller, "Six Seconds In Dallas". This interview was conducted roughly 3 years after the assassination = her memories of that day being relatively fresh. It is a wide ranging interview including her describing what she did & what was going on around her Before, During, and After the assassination. You can google this interview and read it in its' Entirety. Highly recommend.
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Here is a picture of two of the assassins as shown in a colorized version of the Mary Moorman photo inside the pergola at Dealey Plaza. To the right of the assassins, you can see Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitzman filming.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Hxx8TafILG4/UpJmJiQvswI/AAAAAAAAl5s/5ixp9qutulw/s1600/s_500_opednews_com_0_mary-moorman-polaroid-jpg_89485_20131121-894.gif)
I don't see the two assassins. Can you point them out please?
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Very interesting OP and worthy of discussion here.
My opinion is that the Babushka lady was in fact Mary Meyer and other photos of Dealey Plaza show numerous views of a tall man in a hat whom I think is Cord Meyer. JFK was sleeping with Mary, Cord Meyer's wife. JFK and Cord Meyer had a history of being rivals and later enemies. The positions where Cord was photographed included one near the Babushka Lady I believe around the Houston and Main area.
Maybe Mary was a kind of honey trap to find out what JFK was thinking and planning. When she reported back about his intentions of Peace for the Cold War and exiting Vietnam the decision was taken that JFK had to be killed.
This still means that Meyer as Babushka Lady could have played a part in the assassination plot and team.
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Keyvan - Just remember that the Pergola Image you have posted has been colorized. Tread lightly when arriving at an opinion based on a JFK Assassination Image that has been monkeyed with. Also, Sitzman was interviewed by Tink Thompson for his 1966 Best Seller, "Six Seconds In Dallas". This interview was conducted roughly 3 years after the assassination = her memories of that day being relatively fresh. It is a wide ranging interview including her describing what she did & what was going on around her Before, During, and After the assassination. You can google this interview and read it in its' Entirety. Highly recommend.
Royell, The Mary Moorman photograph shows those images in black and white. I have seen a copy from the FBI, it shows the same thing. You can see shots fired from that area in the Nix Film. JFK's head exploding coincides with the frame with one of the shots in the Nix Film. Do your own research, you may come up with the same educated conclusion.
I don't believe anything JFK unless I can prove it with photographic or film evidence. Everything else is bunk!
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When she reported back about his intentions of Peace for the Cold War and exiting Vietnam the decision was taken that JFK had to be killed.
Thanks. That made me laugh. Kennedy's actions forced out the moderate Khrushchev; a world with Kennedy being reckless and militant, and Brezhnev having to respond wouldn't have been nice.
Better globally the way things actually worked with the veteran statesmen Johnson and Nixon seeking detente and peace.
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Strange, but this Thread seems to have generated a lot of DISCUSSION & DEBATE.
Very interesting OP and worthy of discussion here.
My opinion is that the Babushka lady was in fact Mary Meyer and other photos of Dealey Plaza show numerous views of a tall man in a hat whom I think is Cord Meyer. JFK was sleeping with Mary, Cord Meyer's wife. JFK and Cord Meyer had a history of being rivals and later enemies. The positions where Cord was photographed included one near the Babushka Lady I believe around the Houston and Main area.
Maybe Mary was a kind of honey trap to find out what JFK was thinking and planning. When she reported back about his intentions of Peace for the Cold War and exiting Vietnam the decision was taken that JFK had to be killed.
This still means that Meyer as Babushka Lady could have played a part in the assassination plot and team.
Royell, The Mary Moorman photograph shows those images in black and white. I have seen a copy from the FBI, it shows the same thing. You can see shots fired from that area in the Nix Film. JFK's head exploding coincides with the frame with one of the shots in the Nix Film. Do your own research, you may come up with the same educated conclusion.
I don't believe anything JFK unless I can prove it with photographic or film evidence. Everything else is bunk!
Okay, then! The JFK Assassination Photographic Evidence Discussion & Debate sub-forum should be repurposed as the bustling hive
for posters who assert that their opinions, analysis, and suspicions are actually weighty evidence.
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Hi Tim,
I have presented a colorized image of the Mary Moorman photograph showing two assassins to the left of Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitzman.
It is up to you to interpret the colored photo of the Mary Moorman photo I uploaded in this thread.
If you agree or disagree with my conclusions, I welcome your comments.
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Hi Tim,
I have presented a colorized image of the Mary Moorman photograph showing two assassins to the left of Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitzman.
It is up to you to interpret the colored photo of the Mary Moorman photo I uploaded in this thread.
If you agree or disagree with my conclusions, I welcome your comments.
Yes Keyvan, that is what you're claiming. I realize that. I simply cannot see what you claim is there. Could you please add arrows to your colorized image pointing to each of the assassins?
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Yes Keyvan, that is what you're claiming. I realize that. I simply cannot see what you claim is there. Could you please add arrows to your colorized image pointing to each of the assassins?
Tim, if you can't see it as is, arrows won't help.
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Tim, if you can't see it as is, arrows won't help.
I wonder if anyone else can see them. Have you had a good response so far? How many people thus far have acknowledged seeing your two assassins in your image?
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Hi Tim,
I have presented a colorized image of the Mary Moorman photograph showing two assassins to the left of Mr. Zapruder and Ms. Sitzman.
It is up to you to interpret the colored photo of the Mary Moorman photo I uploaded in this thread.
If you agree or disagree with my conclusions, I welcome your comments.
If there had been shooters inside the Shelter behind Zapruder & Sitzman, they would have Known it/Heard the shot(s). The theory of a shooter firing out of one of those shelter windows is pretty wild. The alleged shooter's head/eyes are postulated as being positioned several feet Above the rifle. This is Not the manner in which a Professional would line up a shot to kill a POTUS. Well, unless you are Chuck Connors/"The Rifleman". This Blevins Theory is way out there. He even has the shooter firing from the high shelter window while Standing atop the back of an accomplice. He probably got the inspiration for this from a 3 Stooges Short.
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Thanks. That made me laugh. Kennedy's actions forced out the moderate Khrushchev; a world with Kennedy being reckless and militant, and Brezhnev having to respond wouldn't have been nice.
Better globally the way things actually worked with the veteran statesmen Johnson and Nixon seeking detente and peace.
Yes Jerry Johnson and Nixon hahaha a bigger pair of corrupt crooks you could ever wish to see. If you think the US was better off with that pair good luck to you. They are why the US is still a banana republic
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Okay, then! The JFK Assassination Photographic Evidence Discussion & Debate sub-forum should be repurposed as the bustling hive
for posters who assert that their opinions, analysis, and suspicions are actually weighty evidence.
Tom you're not an administrator of this site get over it.
Come to terms with the fact you are no more important nor in authority than anyone else on this post
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Tom you're not an administrator of this site get over it.
Come to terms with the fact you are no more important nor in authority than anyone else on this post
You forgot to salute.
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Agnew plead no contest to corruption (taking bribes from NJ mobsters) and had to resign the VP.
Nixon would have went to jail for obstruction of justice, among other things, if Jerry Ford hadn't pardoned him.
The only place LBJ could safely make public appearances during his last years in office was on military bases.
Viet Nam Anti War protesters ran him out of DC.
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/untitled2.jpg)
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Okay, then! The JFK Assassination Photographic Evidence Discussion & Debate sub-forum should be repurposed as the bustling hive
for posters who assert that their opinions, analysis, and suspicions are actually weighty evidence.
Tom, I think everyone's getting a little tired of you telling other members what they can and can't post. Ever thought of starting your own forum, a forum where YOU make the rules..because you don't make them here.
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I often thought that "Babs" held a still camera. For a fact I do today. Flash is a feature. Zapruder has not been colorized. The subject is "Babushka", Da?
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Signaling professional assassins with a Glaring Light/camera would truly be "Get Smart" lame. Same goes for having a Nerd pumping an Umbrella on a Bright Sunny day. In "63" the electronics were available to simply give shooter(s) a "Green", or "Red" Verbal command. The Cuban & his bulging back pocket makes for a far more plausible nondescript Capt/Spotter if needed.
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Why was it necessary for a conspirator to be in Dealey Plaza taking a picture?
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Hi Tom,
Thank you for your reply.
I have done the following in this post:
1. Shown photographic evidence of shooters in the pergola.
No, actually you haven't. You've shown a colorized Moorman photo with brown blobs drawn onto the pergola that you claim are gunmen.
2. Shown that the Babushka Lady turned some type of flashlights that pointed in the direction of the pergola.
No, actually you haven't. You've shown some kind of reflection distorted by motion blur on oversaturated Costella Z film frames.
3. Shown circumstantial evidence that the Babushka lady is part of a broader conspiracy to assassinate JFK.
No, actually you haven't. You just claimed that she was.
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The following is what Bill Newman has always said:
http://jfkfacts.org/what-was-going-through-my-mind-was-that-shot-was-coming-right-over-the-top-of-our-heads/
"I said ?No, that?s it? and I hit the ground because at that moment, what was going through my mind was that shot was coming right over the top of our heads.?
A bullet from the place in the pergola where you claim to see gunmen to the president would not pass over Newman's head.
If you look at the Zapruder Film, there are two strong jiggles after zframe 313 and zframe 330, which the timing coincides with the shots seen in the Nix Film.
What shots seen in the Nix film?
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Lee Harvey Oswald is as guilty as sin. Just because there is no photographic evidence does not mean that he was not involved. There is a preponderance of the evidence that he was involved. His rifle, his alias, documentation, fleeing the scene, ...
No, there really isn't.
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Tim, if you can't see it as is, arrows won't help.
That was the excuse you used for not pointing out the alleged "rifle butt imprint" on the three tramps photo as well.
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That was the excuse you used for not pointing out the alleged "rifle butt imprint" on the three tramps photo as well.
There's a You Tube presentation done by Leroy Blevins Sr addressing the Tramp Rifle Butt Imprint issue. In that presentation Blevins presents a photo that does appear to display some sort of imprint on 1 of the tramps jacket or shirt. (forget exactly what apparel the tramp is wearing). It is alleged to be the imprint from the Metal Plate/Strip attached to the butt of a rifle. The Blevins narrative is that when the rifle was pressed firmly against the tramps shirt/jacket it left this impression. There is also alleged to be an imprint or imprints from the screws that attached the Plate/Strip to the rifle butt that are also visible on the tramp photo. It is an interesting theory.
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Royell,
Take a look at the Mark Bell film. Look at what Ms. Sitzman does there. Compare that with what she said in her interview with Isiah Thomson in November 1966. At the 53 second mark of the Mark Bell film, you can see Ms. Sitzman and Mr. Zapruder. You see Mr. Zapruder heading towards the TSBD and Ms. Sitzman entering the Pergola.
In her November 1966 interview, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sitzman.txt she states that she ran down the hill, then when back up the hill and then entered the pergola. She also said that someone identified themselves as being an FBI agent when she went back up the hill.
Her 1966 interview does not reflect what the film evidence shows.
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Royell,
Take a look at the Mark Bell film. Look at what Ms. Sitzman does there. Compare that with what she said in her interview with Isiah Thomson in November 1966. At the 53 second mark of the Mark Bell film, you can see Ms. Sitzman and Mr. Zapruder. You see Mr. Zapruder heading towards the TSBD and Ms. Sitzman entering the Pergola.
In her November 1966 interview, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sitzman.txt she states that she ran down the hill, then when back up the hill and then entered the pergola. She also said that someone identified themselves as being an FBI agent when she went back up the hill.
Her 1966 interview does not reflect what the film evidence shows.
Yeah. I have previously commented about the discrepancy between what we are seeing on the Bell Film vs Sitzman's interview by Tink Thompson. Sitzman said that after she ran back UP the Knoll, she encountered an alleged G-Man who showed her his ID. AFTER that encounter, she then went inside the Shelter. Perhaps the individual we are seeing on the Bell Film is Not Zapruder. Maybe we are seeing the alleged G-Man referred to by Sitzman in her Thompson interview. If this is the Sitzman referenced G-Man, it would attach a different Time Line to that segment of the Bell Film vs the Time Line which has been cavalierly assigned to it for over 50 years.
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Royell,
As you know I contend that there where two shooters in that shelter. Having a supposed FBI "Agent" there gives more credence to shooters in the shelter. I do however feel that the person in the film is Mr. Zapruder unless Mr. Bell cut the film and Ms. Sitzman somehow when down the hill. As I stated before, I take peoples testimony with a grain of salt. I rather rely on photographic and film evidence to come up with my conclusions.
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Royell,
As you know I contend that there where two shooters in that shelter. Having a supposed FBI "Agent" there gives more credence to shooters in the shelter. I do however feel that the person in the film is Mr. Zapruder unless Mr. Bell cut the film and Ms. Sitzman somehow when down the hill. As I stated before, I take peoples testimony with a grain of salt. I rather rely on photographic and film evidence to come up with my conclusions.
I understand different people Seeing something and then having differing interpretations of what they saw. What I do Not understand is the Numerous Missing Images relating to the JFK Assassination. (1) There are absolutely NO IMAGES of SA Lem Johns on foot inside Dealey Plaza. NONE. Johns allegedly jumped out of the LBJ SS Follow-Up car and was left stranded/Standing in the Middle of Elm St as the JFK Motorcade sped away. How is it there are Absolutely NO IMAGES of SA Lem Johns? (2) There are absolutely NO IMAGES of Motorcycle Officer Hargis running UP to the, "little brick wall", or running from that "little brick wall" to a light post on Elm St. Hargis gave WC Testimony as to doing this, and that testimony was Corroborated by Officer McLane's WC testimony. How is it there are Absolutely NO IMAGES of Hargis running Up the knoll to the "little brick wall" or Down the Knoll from that wall to the light post? (3) There are Absolutely NO IMAGES of AP Photogragher Ike Altgens following law enforcement UP the Knoll, or Altgens coming back DOWN the Knoll. He gave WC testimony as to doing this. How is it that there are Absolutely NO IMAGES of Altgens at any point doing any of this? (4) There are absolutely NO IMAGES of the Mayor Cabell Car exiting Dealey Plaza. The Cabell Car was directly behind the LBJ SS Follow-Up Car. (The same car that SA Lem Johns allegedly jumped out of). How is it that there are Absolutely NO IMAGES of the Cabell Car on Elm St/Exiting Dealey Plaza after the Kill Shot? ALL of these Missing Images, (there are more), occurred in the same geographic space. Elm St & The Knoll stretching from The Steps to the Stemmons Sign. ALL of these Missing Images constitute a Dealey Plaza Black Hole.
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I understand different people Seeing something and then having differing interpretations of what they saw. What I do Not understand is the Numerous Missing Images relating to the JFK Assassination. (1) There are absolutely NO IMAGES of SA Lem Johns on foot inside Dealey Plaza. NONE. Johns allegedly jumped out of the LBJ SS Follow-Up car and was left stranded/Standing in the Middle of Elm St as the JFK Motorcade sped away. How is it there are Absolutely NO IMAGES of SA Lem Johns? (2) There are absolutely NO IMAGES of Motorcycle Officer Hargis running UP to the, "little brick wall", or running from that "little brick wall" to a light post on Elm St. Hargis gave WC Testimony as to doing this, and that testimony was Corroborated by Officer McLane's WC testimony. How is it there are Absolutely NO IMAGES of Hargis running Up the knoll to the "little brick wall" or Down the Knoll from that wall to the light post? (3) There are Absolutely NO IMAGES of AP Photogragher Ike Altgens following law enforcement UP the Knoll, or Altgens coming back DOWN the Knoll. He gave WC testimony as to doing this. How is it that there are Absolutely NO IMAGES of Altgens at any point doing any of this? (4) There are absolutely NO IMAGES of the Mayor Cabell Car exiting Dealey Plaza. The Cabell Car was directly behind the LBJ SS Follow-Up Car. (The same car that SA Lem Johns allegedly jumped out of). How is it that there are Absolutely NO IMAGES of the Cabell Car on Elm St/Exiting Dealey Plaza after the Kill Shot? ALL of these Missing Images, (there are more), occurred in the same geographic space. Elm St & The Knoll stretching from The Steps to the Stemmons Sign. ALL of these Missing Images constitute a Dealey Plaza Black Hole.
Nonsense. Many of the people didn't turn their cameras on or have them focused on areas that would have captured some of the things you claim are suspicious because they're not on film. Patsy Paschall just missed capturing the vehicle the mayor was traveling in because she shut her camera off, so what's the big deal? Same with Bell. The black hole you mention is nothing but a figment of your paranoid imagination, Storing. And just how do you know Altgens wasn't captured in some of the footage coming back down the knoll? You don't because you don't know exactly where Altgens went to or when. And H.B. McLain(Not "McLane") didn't testify before the Warren Commission. And how do you know that there is no footage of Lem Johns still in DP? Have you positively ID'd each and every person captured in film footage? Of course you haven't. As for Hargis, just because none of the witnesses with camera's didn't turn their camera's on and capture Hargis running to the "brick wall" (there is no brick wall by the way) doesn't mean anything except that they didn't capture Hargis running to the wall. He had plenty of time to run to the retaining wall, look around, then down to the light pole before Bell turned his camera on. Have you been to Dealey Plaza and seen just how tiny that place is is?
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Nonsense. Many of the people didn't turn their cameras on or have them focused on areas that would have captured some of the things you claim are suspicious because they're not on film. Patsy Paschall just missed capturing the vehicle the mayor was traveling in because she shut her camera off, so what's the big deal? Same with Bell. The black hole you mention is nothing but a figment of your paranoid imagination, Storing. And just how do you know Altgens wasn't captured in some of the footage coming back down the knoll? You don't because you don't know exactly where Altgens went to or when. And H.B. McLain(Not "McLane") didn't testify before the Warren Commission. And how do you know that there is no footage of Lem Johns still in DP? Have you positively ID'd each and every person captured in film footage? Of course you haven't. As for Hargis, just because none of the witnesses with camera's didn't turn their camera's on and capture Hargis running to the "brick wall" (there is no brick wall by the way) doesn't mean anything except that they didn't capture Hargis running to the wall. He had plenty of time to run to the retaining wall, look around, then down to the light pole before Bell turned his camera on. Have you been to Dealey Plaza and seen just how tiny that place is is?
If YOU have ANY Images of SA Lem Johns, or ANY Images of Altgens going UP and DOWN the Knoll, or ANY Images of Officer Hargis going UP and DOWN the Knoll, or ANY Images of the Cabell Car exiting Dealey Plaza, Please submit them or inform this Forum as tp where they can be accessed. Your Logic of everyone with a camera inside Dealey Plaza just happened to Not have their camera turned On when ALL of the above occurred could also be applied to other shooter(s) being inside Dealey Plaza and Not captured on any of the JFK Assassination Images.
You can Not have it both ways.
McLain's corroboration of Hargis's movements on the Knoll were HSC Testimony. Give yourself a Brownie Point.
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If YOU have ANY Images of SA Lem Johns, or ANY Images of Altgens going UP and DOWN the Knoll, or ANY Images of Officer Hargis going UP and DOWN the Knoll, or ANY Images of the Cabell Car exiting Dealey Plaza, Please submit them or inform this Forum as tp where they can be accessed. Your Logic of everyone with a camera inside Dealey Plaza just happened to Not have their camera turned On when ALL of the above occurred could also be applied to other shooter(s) being inside Dealey Plaza and Not captured on any of the JFK Assassination Images. You can Not have it both ways.
McLain's corroboration of Hargis's movements on the Knoll were HSC Testimony. Give yourself a Brownie Point.
Your logic is twisted, as always, Storing. And I don't give myself points for anything and you don't need to make such a big deal about it. I just corrected an error you made for the benefit of the reader/lurker who may try to look up something that they would have a hard time finding regarding McLain since you said he gave testimony to the Warren Commission when he didn't.
Where did I say or indicate that I have images of the people you listed in Deaely Plaza, Storing? You certainly do enjoy twisting things that people say. That's bad. That's very bad.
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Your logic is twisted, as always, Storing. And I don't give myself points for anything and you don't need to make such a big deal about it. I just corrected an error you made for the benefit of the reader/lurker who may try to look up something that they would have a hard time finding regarding McLain since you said he gave testimony to the Warren Commission when he didn't.
Where did I say or indicate that I have images of the people you listed in Deaely Plaza, Storing? You certainly do enjoy twisting things that people say. That's bad. That's very bad.
Your being forced to Run Away from your stated position of, "many people did not have their cameras on or have them focused ......", is an absolute Laugh Riot. Is that the absolutely Best explanation(s) you can come up with? The examples proffered, (and there are more), involves a small area running from The Steps to the Stemmons Sign. We see part of this area on the Bell Film where the alleged Wiegman is running Across the Knoll. We see this same area on the Couch Film when the alleged Wiegman is now running Down the Knoll. We do Not see Hargis or Altgens in motion progressing Up or Down the Knoll on either of these Films. And, where oh where is SA Lem Johns? Johns allegedly jumped out of a car in the Middle of Elm St, RAN toward LBJ's car, and then was left standing in the Middle of Elm St as the JFK Motorcade sped away. Yet, Johns is Not captured on 1 single Image. Your laughable reasons for the JFK Assassination Image Absence of these individuals reveals the futile position you are in.
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You're being forced to Run Away from your stated position of, "many people did not have their cameras on or have them focused ......", is an absolute Laugh Riot. Is that the absolutely Best explanation(s) you can come up with? The examples proffered, (and there are more), involves a small area running from The Steps to the Stemmons Sign. We see part of this area on the Bell Film where the alleged Wiegman is running Across the Knoll. We see this same area on the Couch Film when the alleged Wiegman is now running Down the Knoll. We do Not see Hargis or Altgens in motion progressing Up or Down the Knoll on either of these Films. And, where oh where is SA Lem Johns? Johns allegedly jumped out of a car in the Middle of Elm St, RAN toward LBJ's car, and then was left standing in the Middle of Elm St as the JFK Motorcade sped away. Yet, Johns is Not captured on 1 single Image. Your laughable reasons for the JFK Assassination Image Absence of these individuals reveals the futile position you are in.
There you go again, Storing! Flattering yourself! You are illogical.
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The question of whether Beverly Oliver is the Babushka Lady could answer the Malcom Couch movie.
Most versions of the couch movie are not good quality. However, there is a sharpened and very well edited screenshot by Robin Unger (maybe also from Jerry Organ, I'm not sure) from the couch movie where you can at least see the outline of the face.
(https://s18.directupload.net/images/190519/egr546ky.jpg)
Here on the left is the side face profile of the Babushka Lady and on the right Beverly Oliver from a scene in the movie Hot Blooded Woman from 1965:
(https://s18.directupload.net/images/190519/qrl9ehoi.jpg)
In my opinion, this could be another indication that Beverly Oliver was not the Babushka Lady, as the facial features are not quite right.
I would also like to say that the screenshot of Robin Unger (or maybe Jerry Organ) is one of the best pictures of the face of the Babushka Lady.
The picture is not the holy grail when it comes to identifying the babushka lady, but at least there is a tendency for her look to be based on which to continue working.
This is unfortunately in my attempts to make her face on pictures and videos more difficult unfortunately so far not succeeded.
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The question of whether Beverly Oliver is the Babushka Lady could answer the Malcom Couch movie.
Most versions of the couch movie are not good quality. However, there is a sharpened and very well edited screenshot by Robin Unger (maybe also from Jerry Organ, I'm not sure) from the couch movie where you can at least see the outline of the face.
(https://s18.directupload.net/images/190519/egr546ky.jpg)
Here on the left is the side face profile of the Babushka Lady and on the right Beverly Oliver from a scene in the movie Hot Blooded Woman from 1965:
(https://s18.directupload.net/images/190519/qrl9ehoi.jpg)
In my opinion, this could be another indication that Beverly Oliver was not the Babushka Lady, as the facial features are not quite right.
I would also like to say that the screenshot of Robin Unger (or maybe Jerry Organ) is one of the best pictures of the face of the Babushka Lady.
The picture is not the holy grail when it comes to identifying the babushka lady, but at least there is a tendency for her look to be based on which to continue working.
This is unfortunately in my attempts to make her face on pictures and videos more difficult unfortunately so far not succeeded.
The issue I find most perplexing with regard to the Couch footage of the South side of Elm St is the Absence of Darnell. Darnell jumped out of Camera Car #3, (same car as Couch filmed this still frame from), before it turned onto/and began traveling down Elm St. Wiegman jumped out of Camera Car #1, (2 cars in front of Camera Car #3), ran down Elm St, went up the knoll, filmed the alleged Hester's, went down the knoll, filmed the Newman Family, stood around the light pole/sidewalk area, and then saw his Camera Car #1 traveling down Elm St TOWARD him. Wiegman, (no kid in his own right), while on foot went up and down the Knoll while also stopping to film people, and STILL managed to end up In Front of his Camera Car #1. Wiegman's Camera Car #1 had Not even reached the Stemmons Sign, (which is only a very short distance down from the corner of Houston/Elm) when Wiegman filmed that Camera Car. Wiegman also filmed Camera Car #3, (Couch's/Darnell's Car), a short distance behind his camera car during this same film sequence. Where-o-where is Darnell, and what was he doing? I believe the Camera Cars and every other vehicle behind them were Stopped for a Longer period of time than has been foisted on the public for 55+ years. We are probably talking about roughly 1 minute of missing time. The reason for this short period of missing time involves the JFK Limo having been captured on the Wiegman Film Not yet having gone under the Triple Underpass when the on foot Wiegman moved down Elm St. This missing time would coincide with a possible JFK Limo Stop and/or an extended rolling stop.
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The issue I find most perplexing with regard to the Couch footage of the South side of Elm St is the Absence of Darnell. Darnell jumped out of Camera Car #3, (same car as Couch filmed this still frame from), before it turned onto/and began traveling down Elm St. Wiegman jumped out of Camera Car #1, (2 cars in front of Camera Car #3), ran down Elm St, went up the knoll, filmed the alleged Hester's, went down the knoll, filmed the Newman Family, stood around the light pole/sidewalk area, and then saw his Camera Car #1 traveling down Elm St TOWARD him. Wiegman, (no kid in his own right), while on foot went up and down the Knoll while also stopping to film people, and STILL managed to end up In Front of his Camera Car #1. Wiegman's Camera Car #1 had Not even reached the Stemmons Sign, (which is only a very short distance down from the corner of Houston/Elm) when Wiegman filmed that Camera Car. Wiegman also filmed Camera Car #3, (Couch's/Darnell's Car), a short distance behind his camera car during this same film sequence. Where-o-where is Darnell, and what was he doing? I believe the Camera Cars and every other vehicle behind them were Stopped for a Longer period of time than has been foisted on the public for 55+ years. We are probably talking about roughly 1 minute of missing time. The reason for this short period of missing time involves the JFK Limo having been captured on the Wiegman Film Not yet having gone under the Triple Underpass when the on foot Wiegman moved down Elm St. This missing time would coincide with a possible JFK Limo Stop and/or an extended rolling stop.
Couch frame showing Darnell.
Credit: Denis Morissette
(https://jfkassassinationfiles.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/jfk-conspiracy-78-darnell-on-left.jpg)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Darnell.jpg)
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Couch frame showing Darnell.
Credit: Denis Morissette
(https://jfkassassinationfiles.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/jfk-conspiracy-78-darnell-on-left.jpg)
(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Darnell.jpg)
The above still frame taken by Couch, (filming from inside the same Camera Car #3 that Darnell jumped out of), further corroborates there being assigned time line errors with assassination images/films. Above, Couch allegedly filmed Darnell who is just beginning to walk down the South side of Elm St. We also see Camera Car #1 which is on the verge of Passing Wiegman who is standing at the North curb of Elm St. Wiegman had previously jumped out of Camera Car #1 as it was turning onto Elm St, he traveled down Elm St, he then went Up the Knoll, he Stopped to film the Alleged Hester's up there, he then went Down the Knoll, he Stopped and filmed the Newman Family, and then he stood at the Elm St north curb and filmed the Camera Car he had jumped out of coming Toward him on Elm St. Somehow, if we are to believe the accepted time line assigned to the Wiegman Film, the Middle Aged Wiegman on foot managed to travel down Elm St, travel Up the Knoll, STOP and film the Hester's up there, then he traveled down the Knoll, STOPPED and filmed the Newman Family and and somehow after ALL of that be ahead of his Camera Car on Elm St in a roughly 30 second time frame. BS: