JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Charles Collins on December 07, 2022, 07:34:10 PM
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Here is a quote from Marguerite Oswald from a newspaper article in The Fort Worth Press with the title “Russia Rejects Fort Worth Man’s Bid” from November 15, 1959 when LHO’s attempted defection was in the news:
“I would much rather read the sort of headlines that are appearing now than headlines that Lee had killed somebody or become a dope fiend or something like that.”
This article was in LHO’s possession and removed from his home by the DPD in 1963.
Gave me the chills when I read the part that I underlined….
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49780/ (https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49780/)
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Evidently, Marguerite Oswald wasn't bothered when she did read headlines that her son had killed someone.
Jean Davison, in her wonderful book "Oswald's Game", said Lee was like his mother: vindictive, chip-on-shoulder and unforgiving (you know, nasty pieces-of-works like today's Republicans). Davison noted that Lee's brother Robert was like his father, easy-going and considerate. Joe Biden-like.
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Evidently, Marguerite Oswald wasn't bothered when she did read headlines that her son had killed someone.
Jean Davison, in her wonderful book "Oswald's Game", said Lee was like his mother: vindictive, chip-on-shoulder and unforgiving (you know, nasty pieces-of-works like today's Republicans). Davison noted that Lee's brother Robert was like his father, easy-going and considerate. Joe Biden-like.
Evidently, Marguerite Oswald wasn't bothered when she did read headlines that her son had killed someone.
Good point…. :-X
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Here is a quote from Marguerite Oswald from a newspaper article in The Fort Worth Press with the title “Russia Rejects Fort Worth Man’s Bid” from November 15, 1959 when LHO’s attempted defection was in the news:
“I would much rather read the sort of headlines that are appearing now than headlines that Lee had killed somebody or become a dope fiend or something like that.”
This article was in LHO’s possession and removed from his home by the DPD in 1963.
Gave me the chills when I read the part that I underlined….
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49780/ (https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49780/)
Yes, that's pretty scary. And indicative of who Marguerite was or how she saw things. Not a great mother to be frank but she did have a tough life. Remember that Oswald's brother John Pic testified that he always thought something dramatic would happen in Oswald's life but he thought it was his defection to the USSR was that event.
I think a common denominator was they both had a persecution complex, feelings of being mistreated, even singled out by society. Marguerite had one, she felt that society owned her something and was mistreating her and so did Oswald, she sort of handed it down to him. Kerry Thornley, who befriended Oswald in the Marines, said that Oswald came across to him as believing he was being picked on the Marines, that they would make him do extra works. He said Oswald came across to him as intelligent but having emotional instability.
Michael Paine said the same thing, that Oswald felt he was a victim, that he wasn't being sufficiently recognized. The KGB officers at the Soviet Embassy also said that he said he was being attacked, that he needed a revolver to protect himself. This complex, this feeling of being victimized, repeats itself several times in his life. I think this complex led to him to embrace Marxism, as he understood it. He was a victim of a oppressive society and Marxism gave an fuller explanation for why that was happening.
Victimhood. We see that today with these "woke" leftwingers and Trump right wingers who think society is against them. We see it with leftwing anti-American Canadians who feel inferior to the US, to Americans and only see things through left and right perspectives. Simple minded individuals. It manifests itself in a variety of ways.
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So many amateur psychiatrists on this forum.
I’m not seeing the problem with her quote that Charles cited honestly. Also, she believed that her son was a spy or intelligence asset when he went to Russia so maybe she wasn’t rattled by the headlines for that reason.
"I felt quite sure at that time, that he was in Russia working for the American government”.
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/O%20Disk/Oswald%20Marguerite%20C/Item%2023.pdf
I’m not arguing that she was Mom of the year but a mom who believes her son is innocent even if he’s accused of killing the President is normal behavior for mothers who typically love their sons unconditionally.
With that said, I do think LHO being raised by a single-mom and moving around a lot as a kid affected him mentally and emotionally. But that alone doesn’t make someone a killer or an assassin.
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So many amateur psychiatrists on this forum.
I’m not seeing the problem with her quote that Charles cited honestly. Also, she believed that her son was a spy or intelligence asset when he went to Russia so maybe she wasn’t rattled by the headlines for that reason.
I’m not arguing that she was Mom of the year but a mom who believes her son is innocent even if he’s accused of killing the President is normal behavior for mothers who typically love their son’s unconditionally.
With that said, I do think LHO being raised by a single-mom and moving around a lot as a kid affected him mentally and emotionally. But that alone doesn’t make someone a killer or an assassin.
Marguerite had “proof.” According to Robert Oswald (page 216 of “Lee”):
“Naturally, she said, governments always deny that any secret agent is a secret agent, and therefore the State Department’s refusal to admit that Lee was on a secret mission proves that he was.”
That none of her three children wanted her at the Thanksgiving get together in 1962 and didn’t tell her about it or invite her speaks volumes to me.
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Marguerite had “proof.” According to Robert Oswald (page 216 of “Lee”):
“Naturally, she said, governments always deny that any secret agent is a secret agent, and therefore the State Department’s refusal to admit that Lee was on a secret mission proves that he was.”
That none of her three children wanted her at the Thanksgiving get together in 1962 and didn’t tell her about it or invite her speaks volumes to me.
Her intuition was correct. The government typically doesn’t admit that someone is an intelligence asset.
She was aware that Lee didn’t officially give up his US citizenship and was correct that his approved leave from the Marines was unusual.
She was aware that he couldn’t afford to travel to Russia in his own.
She also likely knew that he learned Russian in the Marines which was also was unusual at the time.
So regardless of her personality issues, she had pretty good intuition and knew her son better than you or I…
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Her intuition was correct. The government typically doesn’t admit that someone is an intelligence asset.
She was aware that Lee didn’t officially give up his US citizenship and was correct that his approved leave from the Marines was unusual.
She was aware that he couldn’t afford to travel to Russia in his own.
She also likely knew that he learned Russian in the Marines which was also was unusual at the time.
So regardless of her personality issues, she had pretty good intuition and knew her son better than you or I…
:D
Do you also agree with her “proof”? ???
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:D
Do you also agree with her “proof”? ???
Her intuition, if we're going with this explanation, also led her to say that Oswald should have been given a state funeral at Arlington National Cemetery because he killed an obviously sick JFK and saved the country. I mean let's all go to la-la land with Momma Marguerite.
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Her intuition, if we're going with this explanation, also led her to say that Oswald should have been given a state funeral at Arlington National Cemetery because he killed an obviously sick JFK and saved the country. I mean let's all go to la-la land with Momma Marguerite.
Let’s…. ;D
In the next paragraph Robert Oswald continues with:
“She was convinced right after Jack Ruby’s death that Ruby was not dead. False reports about his illness were circulated deliberately, she told me, to give the government an excuse to remove him from jail. Then he was taken to a hospital and false reports about his decline and death were issued. Another man’s body was buried in Ruby’s grave, she said, and Ruby himself was then freed to complete his next assignment - perhaps another assassination.”
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Do you also agree with her “proof”? ???
She never claimed on the record to have "proof" but I agree with her circumstantial evidence that she cited in the article below. How gullible do you have to be to think that he learned Russian in the Marines on his own, was allowed to leave the Marines for a superficial reason, and paid for his trip to Russia on his own?
She admitted that her opinion was based on circumstantial evidence:
"I testified to the fact that I could not prove Lee was a United States agent, but that I thought he was. That I had as much circumstantial evidence that Lee was an agent for the U.S. government as the Dallas Police had that he killed President Kennedy. And I do, I can build a case on it. -
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/O%20Disk/Oswald%20Marguerite%20C/Item%2023.pdf
In the same article, she mentioned that she began suspecting that Lee was an intelligence agent when he went to Russia. That’s the context that you left out of your original post…
"We do know Oswald had intelligence connections. Everywhere you look with him, there are fingerprints of intelligence."
~Senator Richard Schweiker, The Village Voice, 1975
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She never claimed on the record to have "proof" but I agree with her circumstantial evidence that she cited in the article below. How gullible do you have to be to think that he learned Russian in the Marines on his own, was allowed to leave the Marines for a superficial reason, and paid for his trip to Russia on his own?
She admitted that her opinion was based on circumstantial evidence:
"I testified to the fact that I could not prove Lee was a United States agent, but that I thought he was. That I had as much circumstantial evidence that Lee was an agent for the U.S. government as the Dallas Police had that he killed President Kennedy. And I do, I can build a case on it. -
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/O%20Disk/Oswald%20Marguerite%20C/Item%2023.pdf
In the same article, she mentioned that she began suspecting that Lee was an intelligence agent when he went to Russia. That’s the context that you left out of your original post…
"We do know Oswald had intelligence connections. Everywhere you look with him, there are fingerprints of intelligence."
~Senator Richard Schweiker, The Village Voice, 1975
How gullible do you have to be to believe that the opinions, suspicions, conjecture, and innuendo are more than just what they are? It’s been over 59-years now, where’s the evidence?
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How gullible do you have to be to believe that the opinions, suspicions, conjecture, and innuendo are more than just what they are? It’s been over 59-years now, where’s the evidence?
She was right that there’s a circumstantial evidence based case to be made around the idea that LHO was an intelligence asset. Short of documentary evidence, we’ll never know for certain.
The CIA can easily debunk the legitimate suspicions that she and others have by allowing all the files related to Oswald to be declassified.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
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Interesting how the LN-faithful are all about weak, circumstantial, speculation-based arguments for their own orthodoxy.
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Marguerite had “proof.” According to Robert Oswald (page 216 of “Lee”):
“Naturally, she said, governments always deny that any secret agent is a secret agent, and therefore the State Department’s refusal to admit that Lee was on a secret mission proves that he was.”
That none of her three children wanted her at the Thanksgiving get together in 1962 and didn’t tell her about it or invite her speaks volumes to me.
A necessary component of any baseless conspiracy claim is that the inability to prove their theory is due to a coverup by the government. A Catch 22. The conspiracy is unprovable due to the conspiracy. In fact, the cover up (i.e. lack of evidence) is actually proof of the conspiracy.
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A necessary component of any baseless conspiracy claim is that the inability to prove their theory is due to a coverup by the government. A Catch 22. The conspiracy is unprovable due to the conspiracy. In fact, the cover up (i.e. lack of evidence) is actually proof of the conspiracy.
Not all JFK conspiracy theories point the finger at the US government. In fact, there are a number of retired CIA agents who speculate that Castro was involved with Oswald.
And of course, there are lots of CT'ers who point the finger at the Mafia.
So you're wrong again.