JFK Assassination Forum

Off Topic => News - Off Topic - Weird & Wacky => Topic started by: Joe Elliott on November 09, 2022, 09:15:03 PM

Title: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 09, 2022, 09:15:03 PM

Now What Mr. Trump?

The results are still coming in but it is already clear that the 'Big Red Wave' has fizzled.

Typically, in the off year, the party that does not control the Presidency does very well. Americans like to keep one party from having a monopoly of power. But this off year election is different.

It looks like the Republicans will barely get control of the House. But only because four states have Jerrymandered their districts to give Republicans an edge. As Stephan Colbert has pointed out, it is clear there are only two possible outcome:
1. Either the Democrats will get more votes and keep control of the House.
2. Or the Democrats will get more votes but lose control of the House.
Without Jerrymandering, the Democrats would have kept their control of the House. And, as I understand it, there is still a slight chance they still might.

Which Republicans did badly? The ones who supported Trump the most. Who not only got his endorsement, but also supported his 'Stolen Election' lie. Those guys got clobbered. The setup I feared, Election Deniers winning critical 'Secretary of State' positions, critical races for Governor where the Governor can appoint the Secretary of State, like Pennsylvania, did not materialized. Not a single state, not even one 'Deep Red' state, was willing to go that far. So Trump's most probable path to victory, having enough 'Secretary of State's' awarding him the election against the wishes of the people of that state, is not going to happen.

Which Republicans did best? The ones who distanced themselves from Trump. Including, most prominent, Trump's biggest enemy in the Republican party, the Governor of Florida DeSantis. Trump hates Pence, but he fears DeSantis.

The bottom line?

The majority of Republicans like Trump best. But the people of America on the whole reject him. What does this mean?

The smart thing for Republicans to do is drop Trump. And find someone else to back, like DeSantis, who could win. But I think the lure of winning permanently, of getting Trump in office somehow so the system can be rigged to allow Republicans to always win future elections. will be too strong to resist.

My prediction?

Trump will win the Republican nomination for President in the summer of 2024.
And Trump will lose the election in November 2024 by a wide margin.
And the Republicans will throw away a bird in hand to go for dozens in the bush.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 09, 2022, 09:33:39 PM

“Biggest loser tonight”: Trumpworld is “catatonic” over his MAGA midterm failure

https://www.salon.com/2022/11/09/biggest-loser-tonight-trumpworld-is-catatonic-over-his-maga-midterm-failure/

Who is Ron DeSantis? "Ron DeFuture", if the Republicans want the best chance of winning in 2024. Not a great candidate, but the Republicans best bet to win.

Trump has said that if DeSantis runs against him, he will regret it. Trump has some very damaging information about DeSantis. What could it be? Who knows? Maybe Trump got a hold of one of his laptops and handed it over to the Russians. We shall see.

I, for one, am interested in this 'information' that Trump has for us about DeSantis.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 09, 2022, 10:07:49 PM

How Moderates Won the Midterms

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/how-moderates-won-the-midterms/ar-AA13VUZK?cvid=ede494bcfd7a42d0b8302f3d4f4349c8

Quote
The rise in split-ticket voting shows that Americans have a real preference for moderates when they are on the ballot. Yet the system that both major parties use to pick their candidates may ensure that this choice won’t be on offer when it counts most, in November 2024.

The midterms have sent a clear lesson to both Democrats and Republicans. To maximize the chances of winning the White House in 2024, pick a moderate candidate who can reach beyond the party’s base. If both parties heed the lesson, that could usher in a less polarized and perilous era in American politics. If only one party heeds the lesson, it will likely enjoy a big advantage. If neither party heeds it, anything is possible—including a second term for Donald Trump.

The bottom line? We are not out of the woods yet. The Democrats must not nominate someone like Bernie Sanders. The survival of Democracy is at stake. 2024 is not the year to gamble.

Nor is Joseph Biden a good option, although I like him. The Republican House will investigate him. There may be nothing to it, there may be no 'Fire', but the Republicans can certainly manufacture 'Smoke'. And this 'Smoke' is sure to reach a peak in September-October of 2024 and kill Biden chances, as Clinton's changes were killed by a lot of 'Smoke' in 2016. Let's not make things easy for the Republicans in 2024, particularly if Trump is the Republican candidate, which I still expect. The base loves him. He could potentially ensure Republican wins into the indefinite future. So he will win the Primaries. We must expect that Trump will be running in November 2024 and he MUST be defeated.

May I suggest someone like Sherrod Brown, Senator Senator from Ohio. Seventy years old today. Serving in the Senate since 2007. Moderate. Appeals to the Center, not to the 'Far Right' or 'Far Left'. From an important swing state, not a Deep Blue State like Governor Gavin Newsom. Let's keep Democracy safe.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 09, 2022, 10:16:20 PM
"Unprecedented irregularities": MAGA election losers stoke conspiracies and refuse to concede

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/unprecedented-irregularities-maga-election-losers-stoke-conspiracies-and-refuse-to-concede/ar-AA13Vnsn?cvid=1e2a0ee015ca4167a7e8b0830ff49da0

Quote
Despite Shapiro's projected win, Mastriano said that there's still "a ways to go," noting that there are more votes to be counted.

"Have faith, we're gonna, uh, of course, we're gonna have faith and have patience," he told his supporters in Camp Hill, Pennsylvania late Tuesday night. "We're gonna wait until every vote counts, right?"

And then he's going to see if he can get enough of these votes tossed out so he wins anyway.

And Doug Mastriano is, of course, holding firm to the MAGA most sacred principles. If behind "Continue to Count Every Vote". If ahead but slipping "Stop the Count Now".
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Jerry Organ on November 09, 2022, 10:21:42 PM
According to Ana Navarro (who lives in Florida), Ron DeSantis' artificially-large win was due to a "rigged" system in Florida. For example, DeSantis (as other GOP Governors now want to emulate) made advance-voting harder. This was squarely aimed at Democrats, who like to vote early. The dog-whistles from DeSantis would have intimidated many Florida Democrats to feel threatened if they showed up on election day. Besides, Democrats were understandably not that motivated by Charlie Crist.

    "DeSantis won BIGLY. But let’s be real. He ran against a political
     corpse. Crist’s career has been dead for years. He’s now lost 5
     statewide races - as a Republican, an Independent and a Dem.
     And @FLADems have been MIA. That depressed turn-out, which
     was down 10% from 2018."




Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 09, 2022, 10:52:06 PM

According to Ana Navarro (who lives in Florida), Ron DeSantis' artificially-large win was due to a "rigged" system in Florida. For example, DeSantis (as other GOP Governors now want to emulate) made advance-voting harder. This was squarely aimed at Democrats, who like to vote early. The dog-whistles from DeSantis would have intimidated many Florida Democrats to feel threatened if they showed up on election day. Besides, Democrats were understandably not that motivated by Charlie Crist.

    "DeSantis won BIGLY. But let’s be real. He ran against a political
     corpse. Crist’s career has been dead for years. He’s now lost 5
     statewide races - as a Republican, an Independent and a Dem.
     And @FLADems have been MIA. That depressed turn-out, which
     was down 10% from 2018."

According to Ana Navarro (who lives in Florida), Ron DeSantis' artificially-large win was due to a "rigged" system in Florida. For example, DeSantis (as other GOP Governors now want to emulate) made advance-voting harder. This was squarely aimed at Democrats, who like to vote early.

Agreed. They claim that mail in ballots are prone to fraud. The real problem is that Democrats, who are often Blue Collar, tend to have more trouble getting enough time off of work to vote. And urban polling places are harder to access (parking) and more likely to be crowded, which suppresses voting. Suppressing mail in ballots allows the Republicans to continue to enjoy the unfair advantages they have enjoyed for decades.

Other tools, confusing rules on which ex-inmates are allowed to vote. I believe, if you have served your time, you should be sent a message that you are back to being a citizen. Not a message that you are a criminal, you will always be a criminal, so you can't vote. This increases their odds of going back into crime. But confusing rules not only stops some ex-cons from voting, it causes others not to vote, for fear they may be making a mistake and may go back to jail as a result. Publicising what may be technical mistakes also gives the impression that voting violations are a real problem. Showing 20 real technical mistakes will add to the impression that claims of thousands of fraudulent votes may also be true.


The dog-whistles from DeSantis would have intimidated many Florida Democrats to feel threatened if they showed up on election day. . . .

I think of secondary importance, compared to other factors. I don't think the intimidation extended too much further than that directed against ex-cons. Which is a bad thing, but not a factor against the majority of voters. I think DeSantis more relied on the difficulty of blue collar workers, particularly urban blue collar workers, with voting in person. Not so much with intimidation.

But certainly DeSantis did benefit from distancing himself, at least to a certain limited extent, from Trump. If he stressed that not only was the 2020 election stolen from Trump, but he would do whatever it took to see that this did not happen again, implying he would find reasons to toss out undesired votes, he would likely have lost.

Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 09, 2022, 11:01:53 PM

Katie Hobbs' lead over Kari Lake continues to shrink in Arizona governor's race. Will it flip?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/katie-hobbs-lead-over-kari-lake-continues-to-shrink-in-arizona-governor-s-race-will-it-flip/ar-AA13VMzc?cvid=65c5da415ee04ac6923e2b4f16495148

Quote
The former television news anchor carried 70% of votes cast statewide on Election Day, collapsing what once was a 14 percentage-point Hobbs lead among early voters to less than 1 percentage point as of Wednesday morning.

Will this trend continue and cause MAGA Election Denier Kari Lake to win?

No. Most of the remaining votes to be counted are from the urban Maricopa County.

Quote
In Maricopa County on Wednesday morning, counting continued on ballots dropped off on Election Day and received in the immediate days before. In an update, Board of Supervisors Chairman Bill Gates said about 400,000 votes remained uncounted, with most of those being ballots dropped off Tuesday.

Trump indorsed Kari Lake is toast. Like all the other MAGA Election Deniers for the critical Governor and Secretary of State offices.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Jerry Organ on November 09, 2022, 11:41:01 PM
David Frum (The Atlantic) wrote:

    "Trump led his party from loss to loss.
          He lost the popular vote in 2016. He lost the House in 2018. He lost
     the popular vote and the Electoral College in 2020. He lost the Senate
     in 2021.
          And yet, despite all this loserdom, his party whimpered and submitted.
          ...
          Since 2000, there have been six presidential elections, and thus 12
     presidential nominations by the two major parties. In his share of votes cast,
     Trump finished tenth and 11th out of the 12: behind Mitt Romney, behind
     John Kerry, behind Al Gore."

I'm suppose he means Trump (popular-vote-wise) outpolled just one of the candidates since 2000, whom I guess might be John McCain in the year of Obama-Mania. McCain's Running Mate Sarah Pallin, the fore-runner of GOP shoot-from-the-lip "fringe" candidates, might have contributed to McCain's historic lost.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 10, 2022, 03:12:23 AM

David Frum (The Atlantic) wrote:

    "Trump led his party from loss to loss.
          He lost the popular vote in 2016. He lost the House in 2018. He lost
     the popular vote and the Electoral College in 2020. He lost the Senate
     in 2021.
          And yet, despite all this loserdom, his party whimpered and submitted.
          ...

His party whimpered and submitted, not due to the power of Trump's personality, but because more than 50% of Republicans want Trump and nobody else besides Trump. Why? Not despite all the outrageous things he has said and done but because of them.

He made it clear that he supports racism (Charlottesville 2017 "There are good people on both sides").
He tried to overturn an election in 2020, which implies he will do whatever it takes to stay in power for the rest of his life.
He seems to be guilty of various crimes, which only increases the odds he will do whatever it takes to seize and hold on to power.

Combined with the changing demographics in the country, the percentage of people of mostly European descent getting less and less, means that to them, Fascism is the answer. They can't win elections in the long run. And time is running out.

I don't believe Trump "fooled" millions into believing the election was stolen. They just want to pretend to believe this so they have moral reasons to riot, seize ballot boxes, to do whatever it takes nullify elections. And Trump is the only candidate that they have good reason to believe will assist them in this endeavor.

This 51+ per cent of the Republican party is a great danger to Democracy in America. They are as great a danger as the German voters who supported Hitler were to German Democracy in the early 1930's. They will be a danger to American Democracy for some time after Trump has died. When he dies, or clearly proven he cannot win (I think the 2024 election will do that) they will look for another Trump. And I am certain they will find him. They were not such a big danger while they were unaware of each other. When they were unaware that tens of millions of Americans also secretly held these views as well. But they are aware now and a danger now for the rest of my life and beyond. It may be a blessing that, for the most part, the Greatest Generation did not live long enough to see these events take place. What the hell did they fight for if Trump prevails?
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 10, 2022, 03:24:42 AM

With the clear disaster than Trump has been in 2022, in what should have been a great off year election for the Republicans becoming a toss up. Will the Republican leadership turn against Trump? Trump insisted on endorsing weak candidates. So there would be no doubt who they owned their election to. And will support him the next time he needs an election nullified. And this has cost them seats, particularly in the Senate. They know they should. But they won't. The MAGA base, which takes up more than 50 per cent of the Republican party, will insist on staying with Trump. The Republican leaders, whatever they are saying today, will cave again. They will feel compelled to go against their better judgment. It will be:

It's been a hell of a ride, but count me out. No, count me in. No, count me out. No, count me back in again, please.

This clown parade will continue to produce more disasters for the Republicans, with an outside chance of a disaster for Democracy.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 11, 2022, 01:18:47 AM

As far as I can tell, all seven Election Deniers, running for Secretary of State in seven states, have all lost or in the process of losing.

The Election Deniers best hopes are in Arizona and Nevada. The Election Denier, Mark Finchem, in Arizona, is clearly going down to defeat. The Election Denier, Jim Marchant, has a very slim 2,000 vote lead, but with the bulk of the uncounted votes in the counties containing Las Vagas and Reno, he clearly appears doomed to me.

Also, the Election Denier Doug Mastriano running for Governor of Pennsylvania has clearly lost. This is significant because he would appoint the Secretary of State for Pennsylvania and if elected, could control the 2024 election as if he was the Secretary of State.

It appears America has dodged a bullet. If any of these clowns got elected, the 2024 votes in their state could be nullified, declared fraudulent, and appoint a Trump slate to the Electoral College. The could do  the same for any race in their state. The Election Denier and GOP candidate in Wisconsin for Governor Tim Michels was recorded (it appears he thought he was off mike) that if elected the GOP would never lose another race. If this happens, Democracy could die in those states.

Of course, there is a backup. The courts. But the courts are ultimately controlled by the conservative (6-3) U. S. Supreme Court. Would they step in to save Democracy if an Election Denier fraudulently tossed out the votes? I believe they would. The prestige they could earn in history as being the court that saved Democracy, would be immense. Their striking down of Roe vs. Wade would likely become a footnote of history. But for now, it appears we don't have to worry about that.

Of course, a devious Election Denier serving as Governor or Secretary of State could, perhaps side step the courts. Wait until the last minute, in early December before suddenly announcing that he had just confirmed what he suspected, that the election was a fraud. And awarding victory to Trump. In my opinion, if this is done, the courts should automatically strike this down. A Secretary of State must give the courts enough time to review their decision. If they don't, the votes must count.

In any case, this all seems mute. For another two years, Democracy seems secure. But it must be secured, by the voters, every two years. The election of Secretary of State is no longer a minor election. For years to come, it is the most important election. More important, in my mind, than that for Senator or Representative. A mistake made there can only hurt for two or six years and is correctable. One misstep in an election for Secretary of State could permanently destroy Democracy in that state. Democracy is the best form of government but is fragile. One bad election can destroy it. Just ask the folks who voted for Hitler just that one time. That's all it took.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 11, 2022, 01:36:41 AM

Donald Trump warns Ron DeSantis against 2024 presidential bid

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63563862

Quote
If Mr. DeSantis were to announce a presidential bid, Mr. Trump said he would reveal "things about him that won't be very flattering - I know more about him than anybody - other than, perhaps, his wife".

Donald Trump. President, Traitor, Insurrectionist, Fascist, and now, Blackmailer.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Jerry Organ on November 11, 2022, 03:21:27 AM
Just ask the folks who voted for Hitler just that one time. That's all it took.

My understanding is that most Germans of that era didn't mourn the demise of democracy there. They were looking for a strongman to succeed Bismarck. That speaks to the long list of autocratic leaders they historically placed their trust in. By the time Hitler made his move, the German legislature wasn't really functional. The surrender terms imposed by the Allied Powers after WWI and the subsequent excessive inflation was seen as the failure of democracy. By 1933, Germans generally felt outside Western Democracy (though they admired the culture of America and the U.K., and kept up with technology and medical advances).

I have to wonder how much of the German Strongman tradition did Trump's ancestors soak up.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 12, 2022, 03:05:46 AM

My understanding is that most Germans of that era didn't mourn the demise of democracy there. They were looking for a strongman to succeed Bismarck. That speaks to the long list of autocratic leaders they historically placed their trust in. By the time Hitler made his move, the German legislature wasn't really functional. The surrender terms imposed by the Allied Powers after WWI and the subsequent excessive inflation was seen as the failure of democracy. By 1933, Germans generally felt outside Western Democracy (though they admired the culture of America and the U.K., and kept up with technology and medical advances).

I have to wonder how much of the German Strongman tradition did Trump's ancestors soak up.

I don't know if he 'inherited' his Authoritarian beliefs, but his ex-wife, Ivana Trump, alleged said he kept a copy of Hitler's speeches by his bedside. I don't think this is passed down through genes but instead some personalities are attracted to Authoritarian beliefs, particularly if they imagine themselves as becoming a dictator.

Germany actually had a long tradition of Democratic thought, or at least a similar philosophy. Two thousand years ago, German tribes had trouble being united against the Romans because they didn't think their should be a permanent ruler. Arminius, with difficulty, managed to get the tribes united enough to defeat Varus in the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, but was later assassinated for trying to seize too much control over his fellow Germans. Many Germans tried to establish Democracy but were squashed in the 'Revolution" of 1848. Some of them escaped to America where they generally supported Democracy and in many cases, fought for the Union.

I think the Kaiser did not accidentally slide into World War I, but caused it to prevent Germany from adopting Democracy. In post World War I Germany, many in Germany supported Democracy, despite:

1. President Wilson insisting that he would only negotiate with Democratic representatives. A disastrous decision, since it was liberal politicians, not the German Kaiser or his generals, who got the blame for negotiating an unfavorable peace, which they had no choice but to accept. That burden should have been placed on General Ludendorff.

2. The Great Depression, largely brought on by President Hoover's attempts to control the economy, not by the failure of Free Enterprise, caused such suffering in Germany that the German people (well, around 32 to 38 per cent of them) were willing to abandon Democracy and try Authoritarianism.

Since 1945 the people of Germany have embraced Democracy, certainly much more than the people of East Germany ever embraced Communism, despite the force the Russians exerted.

I don't think Germans have a natural tendency to choose Authoritarianism over Democracy. It just happened that Authoritarianism happened to win out during certain crossroads. Probably more due to Geography than genes. Britain had an easier path to Democracy being an island country.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 12, 2022, 11:14:47 PM

'A new election must be called for immediately!': Trump flips out after another Senate win for Dems

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-new-election-must-be-called-for-immediately-trump-flips-out-after-another-senate-win-for-dems/ar-AA141UAp?cvid=78ec305ed45f4d07b49147045db029dc

Trump demands new elections. And while he's at it, he should demand new primary and general elections. But this time, not endorse losers.

At his daughter's wedding tomorrow, I wonder if he will forget himself and instead of toasting the bride and groom demand new elections in Arizona.

This guy is too much. I would be embarrassed to admit I support this guy. I wonder if that is why we haven't heard from some of his recent supporters on this forum.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 13, 2022, 02:07:55 AM

'A new election must be called for immediately!': Trump flips out after another Senate win for Dems

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-new-election-must-be-called-for-immediately-trump-flips-out-after-another-senate-win-for-dems/ar-AA141UAp?cvid=78ec305ed45f4d07b49147045db029dc

Top Three Reasons Donald Trump is calling for the Elections of 2022 to be re-done:

3. He forget to call on the Proud Boys to screen the voters.

2. He has witnesses who saw 2,000 mules, real mules this time, dumping Blake Masters ballots into the Grand Canyon.

1. He didn't realize that his wife picks losers, something most people figured out 17 years ago.

Feel free to add to this list.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Richard Smith on November 13, 2022, 07:54:19 PM
'A new election must be called for immediately!': Trump flips out after another Senate win for Dems

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-new-election-must-be-called-for-immediately-trump-flips-out-after-another-senate-win-for-dems/ar-AA141UAp?cvid=78ec305ed45f4d07b49147045db029dc

Trump demands new elections. And while he's at it, he should demand new primary and general elections. But this time, not endorse losers.

At his daughter's wedding tomorrow, I wonder if he will forget himself and instead of toasting the bride and groom demand new elections in Arizona.

This guy is too much. I would be embarrassed to admit I support this guy. I wonder if that is why we haven't heard from some of his recent supporters on this forum.

Trump was a creation of the corrupt political establishment that has controlled and brought the US to ruin.  If they had succeeded in their jobs, there would never have been any Trump political movement.  Many supporters turned to him as the only possible alternative option.  Trump is the only person in the modern times who had any chance to take on the political establishment and media.  What he did in 2016 was nothing short of a miracle.  Keeping Hillary Clinton out of office for eight years by defeating her in that election will forever be his greatest achievement.  We will never see another outsider elected in our lifetime.  Only oligarchs who obtain the blessing of the political establishment will ever be elected for the foreseeable future. 

No doubt Trump is often his own worst enemy, however.  The establishment baited him with conspiracy theories and then destroyed him when he overreacted.   Like Teddy Roosevelt who is remembered as a popular US president but who was resoundingly defeated in the 1912 election, Trump's time has passed.  He would be better off as kingmaker than king in the next election.  DeSantis is a very viable alternative and shares most of Trump's policies.  He is electable.  American elections have changed in a fundamental way with early voting.  The establishment has changed the system with early voting and "ranked choice" voting to minimize the chances of candidates that are not supported by the establishment.  The one narrative from this election was the success of the incumbents.   The money alone precludes most outsiders from running.  In the ongoing race for LA mayor, the candidates spent over $100 million.  That is just a reality of modern elections that played out this year.  It is almost impossible to overcome 50 days of early voting in one day.  The Dems are too incompetent to organize mass voter fraud as Trump suggests.  They are, however, finding some way to run up the margins with early voting.  If the Republicans can't figure out how to counterbalance those margins, they will be forever doomed in any competitive election. With that said, the only election result that surprised me this year was the defeat of Oz by Fetterman.  I thought even the Dems had some minimal cognitive standards but with Old Joe in office maybe that was naive.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 16, 2022, 02:05:30 AM

Boy, these are exciting times. In the next our, Trump is going to make his big announcement. The three most likely options are:

1. Bigfoot is real because he saw one and will try to recruit them the next time he needs the Capitol stormed.

2. His big announcement that he promised us a few weeks ago is: "I have no big announcements to make in November. And in December I will have another big announcement to make."

3. That he is running for the Presidency.

Does he have a real chance? His best chance was to have the Secretary of State candidates that he endorsed to win the elections. Then he could ask, probably wouldn't even have to ask, for them to award him the state's votes, regardless of what the people voted. This chance has gone up in smoke. All of his Secretary of State candidates were defeated. All of them. And very many of the MAGA candidates in other races. But all of his Secretary of State candidates went down in flames. Even in the most Red of states, the people still want their vote to count. They may intend to vote for Trump in 2024, but they want to make the final decision on that in 2024, not in 2022.

Republican leadership has now turned against Trump, for good reason. He picked obscure candidates, mainly because they would own him the most if they won. They would have to do his bidding in helping overturn a future election. What does this mean for Trump?

Nothing.

The pattern of voting shows that Trump and MAGA candidates storm through the Republican primaries. And go down to defeat in November, except in very Red states and districts.

Will the Republican voters wise up? I don't think so. A bird in hand is not worth as much as 25 in the bush. A Trump victory in 2024 might be very unlikely, but if the unlikely is somehow pulled off, like it was in 2016, the MAGA crowd, or at least their leaders, may get permanent control of the country. By determining which states election were valid and which were fraudulent. Too much to pass up. What good is having DeSantis for four or eight years when the long term prospects of the Republicans, at least MAGA Republicans is considered bleak?

Trump is coming in November 2024. Do not miss that vote.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Richard Smith on November 16, 2022, 02:34:39 PM
Boy, these are exciting times. In the next our, Trump is going to make his big announcement. The three most likely options are:

1. Bigfoot is real because he saw one and will try to recruit them the next time he needs the Capitol stormed.

2. His big announcement that he promised us a few weeks ago is: "I have no big announcements to make in November. And in December I will have another big announcement to make."

3. That he is running for the Presidency.

Does he have a real chance? His best chance was to have the Secretary of State candidates that he endorsed to win the elections. Then he could ask, probably wouldn't even have to ask, for them to award him the state's votes, regardless of what the people voted. This chance has gone up in smoke. All of his Secretary of State candidates were defeated. All of them. And very many of the MAGA candidates in other races. But all of his Secretary of State candidates went down in flames. Even in the most Red of states, the people still want their vote to count. They may intend to vote for Trump in 2024, but they want to make the final decision on that in 2024, not in 2022.

Republican leadership has now turned against Trump, for good reason. He picked obscure candidates, mainly because they would own him the most if they won. They would have to do his bidding in helping overturn a future election. What does this mean for Trump?

Nothing.

The pattern of voting shows that Trump and MAGA candidates storm through the Republican primaries. And go down to defeat in November, except in very Red states and districts.

Will the Republican voters wise up? I don't think so. A bird in hand is not worth as much as 25 in the bush. A Trump victory in 2024 might be very unlikely, but if the unlikely is somehow pulled off, like it was in 2016, the MAGA crowd, or at least their leaders, may get permanent control of the country. By determining which states election were valid and which were fraudulent. Too much to pass up. What good is having DeSantis for four or eight years when the long term prospects of the Republicans, at least MAGA Republicans is considered bleak?

Trump is coming in November 2024. Do not miss that vote.

Trump is a US citizen.  He has every right to run for president.  The voters get to decide.   That is how a democracy works.   If he has no chance, then why worry or concern yourself with him?  DeSantis shares almost every one of Trump's policies.  It doesn't make much difference to me which Republican wins the upcoming election so long as the current incompetents who have brought the country to ruin are defeated.  How can anyone suggest things are better today than under Trump two years ago?  Inflation is at record highs.   Gas prices are double.  Around five million unknown persons have crossed the open border with no end in sight.  The stock market has crashed.  Interest rates are skyrocketing leading to a recession.  Crime is out of control.  Homeless overrun our cities (which are too dangerous for any law-abiding person to walk the streets).  There is another endless foreign war costing us trillions.  But Trump is the concern?
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 17, 2022, 11:31:41 PM

Trump is a US citizen.  He has every right to run for president.  The voters get to decide.   That is how a democracy works.   If he has no chance, then why worry or concern yourself with him?  DeSantis shares almost every one of Trump's policies.  It doesn't make much difference to me which Republican wins the upcoming election so long as the current incompetents who have brought the country to ruin are defeated.  How can anyone suggest things are better today than under Trump two years ago?  Inflation is at record highs.   Gas prices are double.  Around five million unknown persons have crossed the open border with no end in sight.  The stock market has crashed.  Interest rates are skyrocketing leading to a recession.  Crime is out of control.  Homeless overrun our cities (which are too dangerous for any law-abiding person to walk the streets).  There is another endless foreign war costing us trillions.  But Trump is the concern?

Trump has the right to run again. And I have the right to criticize him. You seem to imply that my criticizing him deprives him of his rights.

If Trump has no chance, then why worry about him? Since none of his major election deniers got elected to a critical office, like to the Secretary of State office in the various states, I am worrying a lot less about this than I did a couple of weeks ago. And his supporters hopes that he might somehow get elected/selected should be greatly diminished. His best chance has just faded away.

Democracy's survival depends on the people's confidence and loyalty to Democracy. If this falters once, the chain of continuous Democracy can be broken. Germany's chain of Democracy was broken by one slip up by the German voters in 1932. A conscience decision by too many voters to vote for someone who was clearly an enemy of Democracy. That was all it took.

The institution of Democracy is a good deal more stable than it was in Germany in 1933, thanks to the loyalty to Democracy being strong throughout the government. Still, it is never a good idea to elect someone like Trump. Why flirt with disaster?

Despite tens of millions of Americans not being loyal to Democracy, Democracy continues to survive, but by a fair narrower margin than I feel comfortable with. I hope it continues to survive, in 2024, in 2026, in 2028 and beyond. I trust that it will. I think the high water mark of the assault on Democracy, from this generation, has come and gone. And the hopes of tyranny now rests on one old fat man in Florida who has to keep his most fervent supporters locked in to hear his entire speech announcing his candidacy.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 18, 2022, 12:03:36 AM

The out of power party almost always does very well in an off year election. Plus the economy is not as strong as it could be. What caused the Republican's to do so poorly? One reason above all others:

Fear that Trump may win the Republican nomination and election in 2024.

If Trump wins the Republican nomination in 2024, the danger will be that must closer. Instead of needing to win both the primaries and the election, Trump will now be just one step away. Voters will vote, not only against Trump, but also against Republican candidates for the House and Senate. As additional insurance, that if Trump somehow wins, he will get no support from Congress in any efforts to nullify future elections. The Republicans will be setting themselves up for a huge defeat.

Of course, this decision, to nominate Trump or not, is not up to the Republican leadership, but to the millions of Republican voters. If I was a Republican voter, I would be urging fellow Republicans not to do this. The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. As the voters have gotten to know Trump better and better, they have turned against him more and more over time and there is no reason to think that this trend is going to reverse. It may be tempting to choice a course, that if it works out, you don't have to worry about losing elections in the future. But this is a course that is bound to fail, as it is also Un-American.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Joe Elliott on November 18, 2022, 12:10:59 AM
Trump said:
“In order to Make American Great And Glorious Again, I am tonight announcing my candidacy for President of the United States,”

If Trump wins, should the First Lady be referred to as Lady Ma-Ga-Ga?
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 08, 2023, 06:16:31 AM
Mr. Trump is about to be indicted for espionage. 
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 08, 2023, 12:40:37 PM
Mr. Trump is about to be indicted for espionage.

Imagine if Putin indicated his political rivals, staged tactical raids on political opponents and their homes, controlled the media with state sponsored propaganda, changed all the election laws just prior to the election in a way that ensured, his election and used the justice system to cover up his crimes and corruption.  These are Stasi-like times in America. 
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on June 08, 2023, 06:17:16 PM
Imagine if Putin indicated his political rivals, staged tactical raids on political opponents and their homes, controlled the media with state sponsored propaganda, changed all the election laws just prior to the election in a way that ensured, his election and used the justice system to cover up his crimes and corruption.  These are Stasi-like times in America.

Except none of it has actually happened in the USA   Go figure!
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 10, 2023, 06:34:38 AM
2 of Donald Trump's lawyers just quit. Even they know how bad this is. 

Trump loses two lawyers just hours after being indicted
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/09/trump-loses-two-lawyers-just-hours-after-being-indicted-00101263
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 10, 2023, 08:39:19 AM
Imagine if Putin indicated his political rivals, staged tactical raids on political opponents and their homes, controlled the media with state sponsored propaganda, changed all the election laws just prior to the election in a way that ensured, his election and used the justice system to cover up his crimes and corruption.  These are Stasi-like times in America.

Imagine the fake scenario you made up or deal with reality and facts?

Mr. Trump stole highly classified nuclear documents and stashed them at his residence refusing to give them back. That is illegal. Now he's been indicted for his serious crimes. That's called law and order.

Republicans claim to be "champions of law and order", but when Mr. Trump and other right wingers commit serious crimes, Republicans then whine and cry saying "law and order" should not be applied.               
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 10, 2023, 11:48:33 AM
We've known for several years now, that MAGA Republicans believe there should be a "special set of rules" for Mr. Trump where he can commit any crime he wants without having to face any prosecution for his illegal criminal actions.

So in MAGA World, their deranged belief is that Mr. Trump should be allowed to steal top secret nuclear documents and no charges should be brought against him by the DOJ, but they want Mr. Trump's political opponents to be prosecuted and jailed based on phony accusations and debunked conspiracy theories.

Mr. Trump was caught red handed stealing, hiding, and refusing to turn over top secret nuclear documents and other top secret classified documents that he had no business having at his residence. Mr. Trump was also showing off these highly sensitive documents to Republican donors and book ghostwriters who had no security clearance to view these highly classified documents. Mr. Trump is recorded on tape at his residence admitting these documents were NOT declassified when he left office but he was publicly lying for months that he already "declassified them".   

You would think these Trump supporters would say, "yeah that is bad, let Mr. Trump go through the justice system as any American would since he put our national security and American lives at risk".             

Nope, they don't do that at all. Instead, Trump supporters start attacking our justice system calling them the "Deep State" and screaming we live in a "banana republic" when a criminal like Mr. Trump is indicted for his 38 felonies against the United States. Then they start in with their "whataboutisms" against Mr. Trump's political opponents who have never been charged with any crimes just to deflect away from Mr. Trump's crimes.

When Mr. Trump was accused by over 27 women of sexual assault, his supporters defended him and attacked the women who came forward. Mr. Trump was caught on tape bragging about his sexual assaults, but even that didn't bother his hardcore supporters. Even when Mr. Trump was found guilty of sexual assault last month in civil court, his supporters attacked the woman that he assaulted. But when Democrat Andrew Cuomo was accused of the same actions, Mr. Trump's supporters were screaming for Cuomo to resign, be prosecuted, and jailed over those same actions. The hypocrisy is unreal with the radical right. They want a special set of rules for Mr. Trump to assault but Mr. Cuomo isn't allowed their own "special rules" since he is not the MAGA cult leader.     

Top Democrats and Democratic voters called for Cuomo to resign and no longer supported him unlike the MAGA cult who dug in even more to support an abuser like Mr. Trump. That's the clear difference between Democrats and Republicans.                     

We see this currently going on right now in the House of Representatives. MAGA Republican New York Congressman George Santos, was just criminally indicted and the Republican House is refusing to expel him from congress. Now if Mr. Santos was a Democrat, the entire Republican House would be on the floor holding debates demanding for him to be expelled immediately. The right wing media would be yelling each day for Democrats to expel him. But since Santos is a Republican, we get nothing but silence from the right wing media and GOP House condoning even more criminal activity.   

Face it, Republicans support criminals and criminal behavior from anyone with an (R) after their name and believe they should never be held accountable for their crimes when they are charged. Once again, a "special set of rules" for people like Mr. Trump and Mr. Santos than other American citizens.

Mr. Trump famously once boasted in 2016, "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters.”

That's not true anymore, since Mr. Trump currently has 54% support of Republicans when it used to be 96% in 2016. Mr. Trump lost 42% support going to other candidates since that remark. But the point is, if Mr. Trump actually did shoot somebody like he boasted about, almost everyone of his current 54% would be demanding that he shouldn't be charged with a crime for "shooting someone" like they are doing now in the stolen documents indictment. That's how deranged these people are.

What now Mr. Trump? Well, you're going to be arrested on Tuesday in Miami for espionage and face another indictment in Jack Smith's January 6th probe coming up soon. Mr. Trump will also be indicted again in August for election fraud and racketeering in Fani Willis' Fulton County, Georgia indictment. Mr. Trump has more indictments and several criminal trials to look forward to in his future.

MAGAs whine, "But Fani Willis is a Democrat, that's political persecution!"

No it's not. :D :D :D     

If Mr. Trump hadn't have called the Republican Georgia Secretary of State on the phone demanding to get 11,000+ votes he never received in order to steal the election from Joe Biden, then Mr. Trump wouldn't be in this predicament. Ms. Willis is just doing her job.

If Mr. Trump hadn't have said "Just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and my Republicans" then he wouldn't be facing indictment. Ms. Willis is just doing her job. Mr. Trump did this to himself.

If Mr. Trump hadn't have stolen boxes of top secret classified documents and didn't refuse to give them up, then he wouldn't be indicted for espionage by Jack Smith. Again, Mr. Trump did this to himself. Jack Smith is just doing his job.

There is no "Deep State" out to get Mr. Trump when Mr. Trump was caught red handed with the goods and is on tape bragging about having classified documents in his possession that is illegal to hold as a private citizen. If the DOJ had no evidence on Mr. Trump and then charged him, then that would be the "DOJ out to get Trump", but that is clearly not the case. Mr. Trump was caught red handed with the goods. He did it to himself.

If Mr. Trump didn't decide to incite an insurrection to steal the presidency from Biden and an election from the American people, then Mr. Trump wouldn't be facing an indictment in DC.

Mr. Trump is a brazen criminal who finally got caught with massive amounts of evidence against him. This is nobody else's fault except his own. Now he has to accept reality and face the consequences. 

And for MAGAs to cry and whine that "others are out to get him" when Mr. Trump  was caught red handed with the goods is absolutely pathetic. Own it and take the loss MAGA. Mr. Trump is a guilty criminal and will face the justice system just like every single American who is charged with serious crimes has to go through.

Mr. Trump doesn't get any "special rules".                                 
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 24, 2023, 08:13:21 AM
Mr. Trump 

(https://www.dispatch.com/gcdn/presto/2023/03/30/NCOD/5773abc3-412f-4672-8985-197ffceff57b-272970_1536_rgb.jpg?width=700&height=566&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 26, 2023, 12:05:44 PM
Wash Post article acknowledging what Trump and many republicans suggested should be the response to COVID all along once it was better understood.  Instead the Dems politicized COVID and destroyed and divided the entire country for absolutely no good reason.  Remember when you were deemed a murderer if you didn't follow their "science"?  Now there is suddenly nothing to see.   Everyone should just move on as Trump said over and over again while advocating that schools be reopened etc to the outrage of leftists who used the pandemic for political purposes and control.


"Covid isn’t over, but even the most cautious Americans are moving on"
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 27, 2023, 03:03:47 AM
Wash Post article acknowledging what Trump and many republicans suggested should be the response to COVID all along once it was better understood. Instead the Dems politicized COVID and destroyed and divided the entire country for absolutely no good reason.  Remember when you were deemed a murderer if you didn't follow their "science"?  Now there is suddenly nothing to see.   Everyone should just move on as Trump said over and over again while advocating that schools be reopened etc to the outrage of leftists who used the pandemic for political purposes and control.


"Covid isn’t over, but even the most cautious Americans are moving on"

More nonsense.

How did the "Dems politicize COVID and destroy and divide the entire country"?
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 27, 2023, 01:33:38 PM
More nonsense.

How did the "Dems politicize COVID and destroy and divide the entire country"?

LOL. You of all people as a propagandist should know that.  There will be history books written just on the abuses.   A few highlights: shutting down the entire country to destroy the booming economy, using COVID as an excuse to change the voting laws in almost every state in a way that changed the outcome of the 2020 election, suppressing free speech to take the blame for COVID off China and place it all on Trump (e.g. lab leak was deemed a conspiracy theory on social media and discussion was banned), spreading massive disinformation.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on June 27, 2023, 11:47:55 PM
LOL. You of all people as a propagandist should know that.  There will be history books written just on the abuses.   A few highlights: shutting down the entire country to destroy the booming economy, using COVID as an excuse to change the voting laws in almost every state in a way that changed the outcome of the 2020 election, suppressing free speech to take the blame for COVID off China and place it all on Trump (e.g. lab leak was deemed a conspiracy theory on social media and discussion was banned), spreading massive disinformation.

You of all people as a propagandist should know that.

Says the biggest propagandist of them all.....

(e.g. lab leak was deemed a conspiracy theory on social media and discussion was banned)

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/23/us/politics/covid-lab-leak-wuhan-report.html
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 28, 2023, 03:31:57 AM
LOL. You of all people as a propagandist should know that.  There will be history books written just on the abuses.   A few highlights: shutting down the entire country to destroy the booming economy, using COVID as an excuse to change the voting laws in almost every state in a way that changed the outcome of the 2020 election, suppressing free speech to take the blame for COVID off China and place it all on Trump (e.g. lab leak was deemed a conspiracy theory on social media and discussion was banned), spreading massive disinformation.

Quote
shutting down the entire country to destroy the booming economy

How can Democrats "shut down the entire country" when Trump was supposed to be "president"? :D

Quote
using COVID as an excuse to change the voting laws in almost every state in a way that changed the outcome of the 2020 election,
 

What voting laws were changed?

Are you claiming red states changed their voting laws?

Quote
suppressing free speech to take the blame for COVID off China and place it all on Trump

Who's "free speech" was suppressed?

Why did Mr. Trump praise China 15 times about their handling of the pandemic?     

Quote
spreading massive disinformation

What "massive disinformation"?   
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 29, 2023, 10:18:33 PM
Wash Post article acknowledging what Trump and many republicans suggested should be the response to COVID all along once it was better understood.  Instead the Dems politicized COVID and destroyed and divided the entire country for absolutely no good reason.  Remember when you were deemed a murderer if you didn't follow their "science"?  Now there is suddenly nothing to see.   Everyone should just move on as Trump said over and over again while advocating that schools be reopened etc to the outrage of leftists who used the pandemic for political purposes and control.


"Covid isn’t over, but even the most cautious Americans are moving on"

More falsehoods and propaganda here.

President Biden got the pandemic under control just like he promised during the 2020 campaign.

So, once it was deemed safe enough to carry on as normal iike it currently is today, we don't need to have strict guideline in place as we did when the pandemic was deadly.

When a deadly pandemic is happening, officials are supposed to follow the safety guidelines of the CDC and WHO to prevent the virus from spreading and from more deaths occurring. Every responsible leader and country followed those guidelines.

Trump and Republicans politicized COVID and those guidelines by refusing to follow them and instead pushed disinformation to their base.     

Then we had Trump working to undermine the COVID response to push his political agenda instead. That's why the United States had the worst COVID crisis in the world in 2020 and going into 2021.

Could you imagine "doing nothing and carrying on as normal" during a deadly pandemic? Millions of people would have died at the outset.   


Trump White House made 'deliberate efforts' to undermine Covid response, report says

The White House repeatedly overruled public health and testing guidance from the nation’s top infectious disease experts and silenced officials, the report found.

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration engaged in “deliberate efforts” to undermine the U.S. response to the coronavirus pandemic for political purposes, a congressional report released Friday concludes.

The report, prepared by the House select subcommittee investigating the nation’s Covid response, says the White House repeatedly overruled public health and testing guidance by the nation’s top infectious disease experts and silenced officials in order to promote then-President Donald Trump's political agenda.

In August of last year, for example, Trump hosted a White House meeting with people who promoted a herd immunity strategy pushed by White House special adviser Dr. Scott Atlas. The subcommittee obtained an email sent ahead of that meeting in which Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House Covid response coordinator, told the vice president’s chief of staff, Marc Short, that it was “a fringe group without grounding in epidemics, public health or on the ground common sense experience.” Birx also said in the email that she could “go out of town or whatever gives the WH cover” on the day of the meeting.

A few months later in October, National Institutes of Health Director Dr. Francis Collins called for “a quick and devastating published take down” of the herd immunity strategy, according to emails obtained and released by the subcommittee.

In an interview with the subcommittee, Birx said when she arrived to the White House in March 2020 — more than a month after the U.S. declared a public health emergency — she learned that federal officials had not yet contacted some of the largest U.S. companies that could supply Covid testing.

Birx also told the panel that Atlas and other Trump officials “purposely weakened CDC’s coronavirus testing guidance in August 2020 to obscure how rapidly the virus was spreading across the country,” the report said. The altered guidance recommended that asymptomatic people didn’t need to get tested, advice that was "contrary to consensus science-based recommendations," it said, adding, "Dr. Birx stated that these changes were made specifically to reduce the amount of testing being conducted.

Altas did not immediately respond to NBC News' request for comment.

The subcommittee also found in its investigation that the Trump White House blocked requests from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to conduct public briefings for more than three months. That move followed a late-February 2020 briefing in which a top CDC official "accurately warned the public about the risks posed by the coronavirus," it said.

Another CDC official told the panel that the agency asked to hold a briefing in April 2020 on a recommendation to wear cloth face coverings and present evidence of pediatric cases and deaths from Covid, but the Trump White House refused.

CDC officials also stated media requests to interview them were denied during that period, the subcommittee report said.

Documents obtained by the committee also show that Trump political appointees tried to pressure the Food and Drug Administration to authorize ineffective Covid treatments the president was pushing, like hydroxychloroquine and convalescent plasma, over the objections of career scientists, the report said.

In addition, Dr. Steven Hatfill, an adviser to former White House trade adviser Peter Navarro, “may have declined leads to purchase supplies like N95 masks in the spring 2020 solely because the products were not manufactured in the United States," the subcommittee said.

In a statement provided to NBC on Friday, Hatfill said that the administration began sourcing personal protective equipment in early 2020. He said "the most logical and efficient choice was to seek U.S.-based manufacturers' help."

"At the time, profiteers were peddling defective and fraudulent PPE at inflated prices directly to the public," he said. "Even states such as California and New Mexico fell prey to these schemes, but we had no time to waste at the federal level. Even the shortest delay could cost thousands of lives. That was a risk we were not willing to take. Our choice to buy American goods saved lives and the United States taxpayer's money."

Dr. Jay Butler, a senior CDC official who helped supervise the agency’s coronavirus response during the spring of 2020, told the subcommittee in an interview that the Trump administration published guidance for faith communities in May of last year that “softened some very important public health recommendations,” such as removing all references to face coverings, a suggestion to suspend choirs, and language related to virtual services. Butler told the panel that “the concerns he had about Americans getting sick and potentially dying because they relied on this watered-down guidance ‘will haunt me for some time,’” the report said.

The revelations in the panel's report come as Covid cases surge across the country as the U.S. battles the new omicron and the delta variants.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/trump-white-house-made-deliberate-efforts-undermine-covid-response-report-n1286211
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 29, 2023, 10:58:28 PM
LOL. You of all people as a propagandist should know that.
   
The only propagandist here is you. Your falsehoods are all debunked below.

There will be history books written just on the abuses. A few highlights: shutting down the entire country to destroy the booming economy,

Here's more disinformation from you.

The "entire country" was never shut down. Weak and feckless Donald Trump famously said "I take no responsibility" during the start of the pandemic and took no action shoving the responsibility to each Governor to handle. That's why United States had the worst COVID crisis in the world.         

States that did not issue stay-at-home orders in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, 2020

Seven states—Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, and Wyoming—did not issue orders directing residents to stay at home from nonessential activities in March and April 2020 in response to the coronavirus pandemic. The 43 other states all issued orders at the state level directing residents to stay at home except for essential activities and closing businesses that each state deemed nonessential

https://ballotpedia.org/States_that_did_not_issue_stay-at-home_orders_in_response_to_the_coronavirus_(COVID-19)_pandemic,_2020


A few highlights: shutting down the entire country to destroy the booming economy,

Greg Abbott and Ron DeSantis are not Democrats, they are far right wing Republicans. Even they closed business and schools during the deadly pandemic. So, it's not "Democrats shutting down the country" as you keep pushing your usual disinformation.

Gov. Abbott Declares Disaster, Closes Schools, Bars, Gyms Statewide, Restaurants “To Go” Only
March 19, 2020
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/gov-greg-abbott-to-detail-latest-in-covid-19-fight-thursday-at-noon/2334290/

Gov. DeSantis orders schools closed rest of academic year
April 19, 2020
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/328896-florida-students-will-continue-distance-learning-through-rest-of-school-year/


And the economy was not "booming". Donald Trump plunged manufacturing into a recession in September of 2019 due to his incompetence and the United States was on the verge of a recession.

U.S. manufacturing is in a recession. What does that mean for the rest of the country?
September 6, 2019
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-manufacturing-is-in-a-recession-what-about-the-rest-of-the-country/

Recession warning 2019: why everybody's worried yet again
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/8/15/20806882/recession-warning-yield-curve-stock-market-dow


using COVID as an excuse to change the voting laws in almost every state in a way that changed the outcome of the 2020 election,

Wow, now you're pushing Donald Trump's election conspiracy theories. :D

Even Trump's own appointed judges threw these bogus conspiracy theories out of court.

Trump-Appointed Judge In Wisconsin Shuts Down Campaign’s Legal Argument For Why Election Was Rigged
Dec 12, 2020
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/12/12/trump-appointed-judge-in-wisconsin-shuts-down-campaigns-legal-argument-for-why-election-was-rigged/?sh=663e9ae715d9


suppressing free speech to take the blame for COVID off China and place it all on Trump

Even more falsehoods.  :D :D :D

No "free speech" was suppressed.. Weak cowardly Donald Trump praised China 15 times for their disastrous response to the COVID pandemic because he was too afraid to call them out on it.

15 times Trump praised China as coronavirus was spreading across the globe
The president has lambasted the WHO for accepting Beijing’s assurances about the outbreak, but he repeated them, as well.
April 15, 2020
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/15/trump-china-coronavirus-188736


Twitter Admits in Court Filing: Elon Musk Is Simply Wrong About Government Interference At Twitter

"To date, not a single document revealed has shown what people now falsely believe: that the US government and Twitter were working together to “censor” people based on their political viewpoints. Literally none of that has been shown at all."

https://www.techdirt.com/2023/06/05/twitter-admits-in-court-filing-elon-musk-is-simply-wrong-about-government-interference-at-twitter/

(e.g. lab leak was deemed a conspiracy theory on social media and discussion was banned), spreading massive disinformation.

The "lab leak" IS a conspiracy theory. Yes, you're spreading disinformation.

No direct proof Covid-19 stemmed from Wuhan lab leak, US intelligence says

Four-page declassified report said while ‘extensive work’ had been conducted, no evidence of an incident at the Wuhan lab was found

Fri 23 Jun 2023

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/23/covid-19-origins-wuhan-lab-leak-us-intelligence-reports
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 30, 2023, 01:40:52 AM
How can Democrats "shut down the entire country" when Trump was supposed to be "president"? :D
 

What voting laws were changed?

Are you claiming red states changed their voting laws?

Who's "free speech" was suppressed?

Why did Mr. Trump praise China 15 times about their handling of the pandemic?     

What "massive disinformation"?

Only the governors of each state had the power to shutdown that state.  Trump, as president, had limited ability to control those individual state decisions.  You still don't realize that at this point? The voting laws were changed in almost every state.  Both those controlled by Dems and Republicans.  Those changes made the difference in the 2020 election.  Those are just facts.  The Dems obviously took advantage of COVID to make those changes.  There were many corrupt establishment Republicans who hated Trump as much or more than Dems. Liz Cheney for example.  They also took advantage of COVID to change the laws.  It only took a few states to change the outcome.  The people wanted Trump.  He received a record number of votes on election day.  He would have won any other such election by a landslide but for the changes made in the months leading up to the election.  You tell me in an honest manner what your reaction would have been if the election laws had been changed just before the election in a way that led to Trump's reelection.  There would have been a real insurrection by the leftists and it would have been deemed necessary to save democracy. 
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 30, 2023, 05:42:16 AM
Only the governors of each state had the power to shutdown that state.  Trump, as president, had limited ability to control those individual state decisions.

A few highlights: shutting down the entire country to destroy the booming economy

You continue to falsely claim that "Democrats shut down the entire country to destroy our economy" and that is just pure disinformation.

Republican Governors like Abbott and DeSantis closed businesses and schools to prevent the spread of the virus and more deaths that were occurring in mass numbers. Are you going to blame them too for closing businesses to stop more deaths from occurring?             

And for your information, entire states were never completely "shut down". Grocery stores remained open and restaurants were open for take out. Non essential businesses were closed. People were advised to stay home to stop the spread of the virus. That's what you do in a pandemic. ALL major countries did the same exact thing, but you're trying to make it out to be controversial when it's not, and you're falsely accusing Democrats of "shutting down" the United States when that never happened.     

Gov. Abbott Declares Disaster, Closes Schools, Bars, Gyms Statewide, Restaurants “To Go” Only
March 19, 2020

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/gov-greg-abbott-to-detail-latest-in-covid-19-fight-thursday-at-noon/2334290/

Gov. DeSantis orders schools closed rest of academic year
April 19, 2020

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/328896-florida-students-will-continue-distance-learning-through-rest-of-school-year/

You still don't realize that at this point? The voting laws were changed in almost every state.  Both those controlled by Dems and Republicans.  Those changes made the difference in the 2020 election.  Those are just facts.  The Dems obviously took advantage of COVID to make those changes.

Sorry, those are not the facts.

States that adopted "vote by mail" mailed a ballot to every single registered voter in the state. How is there an advantage for that? There was no "advantage" for Republicans or Democrats. Anyone who wanted to vote had an easy opportunity to vote. There was no "advantage" for any political party. 

Then that registered voter needed to fill out the ballot and mail it back before the deadline or drop it off at their voting location on election day.

In fact, if a person didn't want to vote by mail they simply could have voted in person at their voting location.     

Oregon and Colorado strictly vote by mail and there is no "advantage" for any political party in those states.

Those are the facts.

There were many corrupt establishment Republicans who hated Trump as much or more than Dems. Liz Cheney for example.

So what if they hated Trump? That's their own choice to hate him or like him.     

They also took advantage of COVID to change the laws.  It only took a few states to change the outcome. The people wanted Trump.  He received a record number of votes on election day.  He would have won any other such election by a landslide but for the changes made in the months leading up to the election.
   

Sorry, no "outcome was changed".

The fact is, Trump fans can't admit to losing the 2020 election, they falsely believe he's invincible, so they make up falsehoods like this to feel better about themselves. This same nonsense was argued in court by Trump's lawyers and even his own handpicked appointed judges threw these bogus claims out because they are ridiculous.   

The "people did not want Trump". If the people wanted Trump, then he would have won the election instead of losing in a blowout.

Trump never led in one national poll for the entire 2020 election campaign because he was massively unpopular.

In fact, the same states that went blue in 2020, also went blue in 2022 for Senate in the midterm election (except for Wisconsin) so no outcome was ever changed in 2020. The voting trends in 2022 were almost identical to 2020 and it will also be the same for 2024.   

And for the record, Republicans in every state voted absentee for years which is perfectly legal. 

President Biden received more votes than any presidential candidate in history which is why he is our president today.           

You tell me in an honest manner what your reaction would have been if the election laws had been changed just before the election in a way that led to Trump's reelection. There would have been a real insurrection by the leftists and it would have been deemed necessary to save democracy.

I have no problem with states making it easier for people to vote. More people need to be voting anyway. And if the candidate of my choice doesn't get enough votes to win, then that's how it goes. Mailing ballots to registered voters does not "change the outcome of an election" because it gives everybody an equal opportunity to vote regardless of their political preference.   

Trump tried to steal the election from the American people by using fake electors and trying to usurp the power from individual states after he lost the election. Then he incited an insurrection trying to stop the vote certification and the peaceful transfer of power, which is why he's going to be indicted for that along with his co-conspirators.

It was Donald Trump and his Republican co-conspirators who attempted to change the outcome of a national election against the will of the people and they failed.     
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Richard Smith on June 30, 2023, 12:36:25 PM
You continue to falsely claim that "Democrats shut down the entire country to destroy our economy" and that is just pure disinformation.

Republican Governors like Abbott and DeSantis closed businesses and schools to prevent the spread of the virus and more deaths that were occurring in mass numbers. Are you going to blame them too for closing businesses to stop more deaths from occurring?             

And for your information, entire states were never completely "shut down". Grocery stores remained open and restaurants were open for take out. Non essential businesses were closed. People were advised to stay home to stop the spread of the virus. That's what you do in a pandemic. ALL major countries did the same exact thing, but you're trying to make it out to be controversial when it's not, and you're falsely accusing Democrats of "shutting down" the United States when that never happened.     

Gov. Abbott Declares Disaster, Closes Schools, Bars, Gyms Statewide, Restaurants “To Go” Only
March 19, 2020

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/gov-greg-abbott-to-detail-latest-in-covid-19-fight-thursday-at-noon/2334290/

Gov. DeSantis orders schools closed rest of academic year
April 19, 2020

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/328896-florida-students-will-continue-distance-learning-through-rest-of-school-year/

Sorry, those are not the facts.

States that adopted "vote by mail" mailed a ballot to every single registered voter in the state. How is there an advantage for that? There was no "advantage" for Republicans or Democrats. Anyone who wanted to vote had an easy opportunity to vote. There was no "advantage" for any political party. 

Then that registered voter needed to fill out the ballot and mail it back before the deadline or drop it off at their voting location on election day.

In fact, if a person didn't want to vote by mail they simply could have voted in person at their voting location.     

Oregon and Colorado strictly vote by mail and there is no "advantage" for any political party in those states.

Those are the facts.

So what if they hated Trump? That's their own choice to hate him or like him.     
   

Sorry, no "outcome was changed".

The fact is, Trump fans can't admit to losing the 2020 election, they falsely believe he's invincible, so they make up falsehoods like this to feel better about themselves. This same nonsense was argued in court by Trump's lawyers and even his own handpicked appointed judges threw these bogus claims out because they are ridiculous.   

The "people did not want Trump". If the people wanted Trump, then he would have won the election instead of losing in a blowout.

Trump never led in one national poll for the entire 2020 election campaign because he was massively unpopular.

In fact, the same states that went blue in 2020, also went blue in 2022 for Senate in the midterm election (except for Wisconsin) so no outcome was ever changed in 2020. The voting trends in 2022 were almost identical to 2020 and it will also be the same for 2024.   

And for the record, Republicans in every state voted absentee for years which is perfectly legal. 

President Biden received more votes than any presidential candidate in history which is why he is our president today.           

I have no problem with states making it easier for people to vote. More people need to be voting anyway. And if the candidate of my choice doesn't get enough votes to win, then that's how it goes. Mailing ballots to registered voters does not "change the outcome of an election" because it gives everybody an equal opportunity to vote regardless of their political preference.   

Trump tried to steal the election from the American people by using fake electors and trying to usurp the power from individual states after he lost the election. Then he incited an insurrection trying to stop the vote certification and the peaceful transfer of power, which is why he's going to be indicted for that along with his co-conspirators.

It was Donald Trump and his Republican co-conspirators who attempted to change the outcome of a national election against the will of the people and they failed.     

So many words.  You are really going to quibble with the characterization that the country was shutdown during the pandemic?  LOL.   It doesn't mean absolutely every business was shut down.  The revisionist history and hypocrisy are astounding.  We were told for two years by Dems that masks, social distancing, and closing of most businesses and all other activities was absolutely necessary.  That destroyed the robust economy.  Then the clown show Biden compounded that disaster by pouring hundreds of billions into the hands of individuals who spent the money on goods and services for which he had ensured by his doomed policies that there were no workers to respond.   Leading to hyperinflation that has crushed America.  The 2020 election was decided in a handful of states by a very small margin of votes.  That is just a demonstrable fact.  The margin of difference in those states was the direct result of changes in the election laws in the months leading up to the election.  Republicans did change those laws in some states.  Many did so because Trump threatened the corrupt establishment.  It's not just a Republican and Democrat issue when it comes to Trump.  Trump is not controlled by the establishment like Romney and most others.  So they went along with those changes and that was the difference in the election.  This is not an opinion but is proven by the data.  Biden received the vast majority of the votes that were the result of new voting methods implementing just before the election.  That margin made the difference.  It was a statistical outlier because Biden received the most votes in history despite being a terrible candidate.   Trump overstates this outcome by claiming the election was stolen.  It was not stolen but the changes made the election questionable.  Biden and his clown show are too stupid to have stolen the election.
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on June 30, 2023, 01:01:36 PM
So many words.  You are really going to quibble with the characterization that the country was shutdown during the pandemic?  LOL.   It doesn't mean absolutely every business was shut down.  The revisionist history and hypocrisy are astounding.

You falsely said "Democrats shut the down the entire country" and that is disinformation.   

We were told for two years by Dems that masks, social distancing, and closing of most businesses and all other activities was absolutely necessary.  That destroyed the robust economy.

You're posting falsehoods again.

Democrats followed the advice of scientists and medical experts on what to do in a pandemic which saved millions of lives.   

Republicans Governors closed businesses in their states. Why aren't you blaming them?

The economy was not "robust". Manufacturing was already in a recession and the U.S. economy was on the verge of one before the pandemic. You keep ignoring this fact.

U.S. manufacturing is in a recession. What does that mean for the rest of the country?
September 6, 2019

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-manufacturing-is-in-a-recession-what-about-the-rest-of-the-country/

Recession warning 2019: why everybody's worried yet again
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/8/15/20806882/recession-warning-yield-curve-stock-market-dow


Then the clown show Biden compounded that disaster by pouring hundreds of billions into the hands of individuals who spent the money on goods and services for which he had ensured by his doomed policies that there were no workers to respond.   Leading to hyperinflation that has crushed America.
 

More disinformation. :D :D :D

You mean the clown show Trump Administration, because the billions of dollars in money occurred on his watch in March 2020 BEFORE President Biden was in office.   

"The program, established by the Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security Act, aka CARES, began in March 2020 to help small businesses affected by COVID-19 cover payrolls and, in some cases, hire back employees who were laid off. Companies across the country received $787.2 billion in loans, the Small Business Administration said."

https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/09/06/fact-check-ppp-loans-forgiven-republicans-matt-gaetz-marjorie-taylor-greene/65470173007/


"The bulk of the potential losses are from the two SBA programs and another to provide unemployment benefits to workers suddenly unemployed by the economic upheaval caused by the pandemic. The three initiatives were begun during the Trump administration and inherited by President Joe Biden."

"Gene Sperling, a senior White House official overseeing pandemic relief spending, said in a interview Tuesday that 86% of the fraud, or potential fraud, in the emergency loan programs happened during the first nine months of the pandemic when President Donald Trump was in office."


https://apnews.com/article/pandemic-covid19-fraud-small-business-inspector-general-7e651b3e405863f0be9f2e34ca47b93e

The 2020 election was decided in a handful of states by a very small margin of votes.  That is just a demonstrable fact.  The margin of difference in those states was the direct result of changes in the election laws in the months leading up to the election.  Republicans did change those laws in some states.  Many did so because Trump threatened the corrupt establishment.  It's not just a Republican and Democrat issue when it comes to Trump.  Trump is not controlled by the establishment like Romney and most others.  So they went along with those changes and that was the difference in the election.  This is not an opinion but is proven by the data.  Biden received the vast majority of the votes that were the result of new voting methods implementing just before the election.  That margin made the difference.  It was a statistical outlier because Biden received the most votes in history despite being a terrible candidate. Trump overstates this outcome by claiming the election was stolen.  It was not stolen but the changes made the election questionable.  Biden and his clown show are too stupid to have stolen the election.

Keep telling yourself that. Trump was overwhelmingly unpopular and lost by 7 million votes.   
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on July 14, 2023, 05:11:29 AM
More upcoming indictments for Mr. Trump.

Grand jury that could indict Trump in Georgia is being picked

We’re entering Fulton County DA Fani Willis’ specified timeline for possible charges in her election interference probe.

https://www.msnbc.com/deadline-white-house/deadline-legal-blog/georgia-grand-jury-selected-2020-election-interference-trump-rcna93617
Title: Re: Now What Mr. Trump?
Post by: Rick Plant on July 16, 2023, 03:14:53 AM
Trump facing 100 years in prison

Watch: