JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Gerry Down on July 12, 2022, 01:35:21 AM
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On another forum, JFK researcher Tom Gram has been discussing the Lake Pontchartrain training camp and speculating on how LHO came to know about it (Bringuier said LHO talked about the camp when he came into his store on Aug 9th 1963). Mr. Gram talks about how Bringuier testified before the WC that he believed a Castro spy inside that camp told the cuban government about the camp and that the cuban government in turn informed LHO about it. And that this is how LHO came to know about the camp when he came into Bringuiers store.
I was surprised to hear this from Mr. Gram. I was always of the opinion that the camp was raided by the FBI at the end of July, that news of that raid then appeared in the press, and that LHO simply found out about that training camp along with all the rest of New Orleans when they read about it in the paper. And this is how LHO knew about the camp when he went into Bringuiers store afterwards.
Isn't this how LHO came to know about the camp or am I missing something?
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On another forum, JFK researcher Tom Gram has been discussing the Lake Pontchartrain training camp and speculating on how LHO came to know about it (Bringuier said LHO talked about the camp when he came into his store on Aug 9th 1963). Mr. Gram talks about how Bringuier testified before the WC that he believed a Castro spy inside that camp told the cuban government about the camp and that the cuban government in turn informed LHO about it. And that this is how LHO came to know about the camp when he came into Bringuiers store.
I was surprised to hear this from Mr. Gram. I was always of the opinion that the camp was raided by the FBI at the end of July, that news of that raid then appeared in the press, and that LHO simply found out about that training camp along with all the rest of New Orleans when they read about it in the paper. And this is how LHO knew about the camp when he went into Bringuiers store afterwards.
Isn't this how LHO came to know about the camp or am I missing something?
You have a habit of getting on the wrong track....
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You have a habit of getting on the wrong track....
You have a habit of making pointless statements to cover up your lack of knowledge on the case.
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If it was reported in the newspapers, LHO was known to read them. And I believe that any news that concerned Cuba would be something that LHO would have been interested in. Does Tom have any evidence other than the speculation that you cited?
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If it was reported in the newspapers, LHO was known to read them. And I believe that any news that concerned Cuba would be something that LHO would have been interested in. Does Tom have any evidence other than the speculation that you cited?
I'm just wondering if the issue has to do with the fact that as far as I know there were two training camps. And only one of those was raided at the end of July. When LHO went to Bringuiers store, LHO could have been referring to the one that had been raided by the FBI (and to which LHO might have assumed might move to a new location now that it had been raided and LHO wanted to find out its new location from Bringuier), and Bringuier misinterpreted LHO to mean he was talking about the other camp (the one which had not been raided and which was still secret).
And this is how the myth was created that LHO knew about a secret cuban exile camp.
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I'm just wondering if the issue has to do with the fact that as far as I know there were two training camps. And only one of those was raided at the end of July. When LHO went to Bringuiers store, LHO could have been referring to the one that had been raided by the FBI (and to which LHO might have assumed might move to a new location now that it had been raided and LHO wanted to find out its new location from Bringuier), and Bringuier misinterpreted LHO to mean he was talking about the other camp (the one which had not been raided and which was still secret).
And this is how the myth was created that LHO knew about a secret cuban exile camp.
You make a good point.
That whole sequence of events seems bizarre to me. But I wonder if whether LHO’s request to see an FBI agent while he was in jail was designed to try to fake out Bringuier. He might have just been trying to make Bringuier believe that he was a part of the U.S. intelligence efforts.
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You make a good point.
That whole sequence of events seems bizarre to me. But I wonder if whether LHO’s request to see an FBI agent while he was in jail was designed to try to fake out Bringuier. He might have just been trying to make Bringuier believe that he was a part of the U.S. intelligence efforts.
If I remember correctly, Bringuier had been released by the time LHO asked to see the FBI agent. That would raise suspicion as to why LHO asked to see an FBI agent. If LHO was friends with De Brueys like Orest Pena said, perhaps LHO thought De Brueys might get him out of jail.
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If I remember correctly, Bringuier had been released by the time LHO asked to see the FBI agent. That would raise suspicion as to why LHO asked to see an FBI agent. If LHO was friends with De Brueys like Orest Pena said, perhaps LHO thought De Brueys might get him out of jail.
I think you are remembering correctly. But then there is the question of whether or not LHO knew that Bringuier had already been released. I wasn’t aware of the Peña claim. But it seems unlikely to me that LHO was friends with any FBI agents.
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I think you are remembering correctly. But then there is the question of whether or not LHO knew that Bringuier had already been released. I wasn’t aware of the Peña claim. But it seems unlikely to me that LHO was friends with any FBI agents.
Well 'friends' might be the wrong word. They were seen in each other's company in the street by pena.
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I think you are remembering correctly. But then there is the question of whether or not LHO knew that Bringuier had already been released. I wasn’t aware of the Peña claim. But it seems unlikely to me that LHO was friends with any FBI agents.
it seems unlikely to me that LHO was friends with any FBI agents.
That is your first mistake..... Lee thought that De Brueys was his friend.....Little did he know that he was misplacing his trust....
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it seems unlikely to me that LHO was friends with any FBI agents.
That is your first mistake..... Lee thought that De Brueys was his friend.....Little did he know that he was misplacing his trust....
Why would you believe that? ???
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Why would you believe that? ???
Study Lee's time in N.O..... And use your head... I'm not going to tell you, you've got a good brain.
I will tell you that Lee thought that he was working undercover for the JFK..... ( trying to learn who was training the exile Cubans and supplying them with munitions ) He simply didn't know that Hoover knew all about the training camps, and supported the Cubans. Lee didn't realize that Hoover thought that the Oswald's were communist agents, and Lee thought that he could report his discoveries ( about the illegal operations) to the FBI... BIG F--KING MISTAKE !!
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Some more info about there being two training camps in new Orelans. On another forum, Jim D said the following recently:
Jim D says there was "...one across Lake Pontchatrain, on land owned by Bill McLaney. It was raided on July 31st. Ferrie was a frequent presence at this camp. (ibid, pp. 29-30.) Even Summers said that Ferrie might have brought Oswald to this camp. But there were reports of another camp later on that summer/fall in Tangipahoa Parish, north of New Orleans, at a swampy area of Bedico Creek. (DiEugenio, Destiny Betrayed, second edition, p. 116) And there were reports that Ferrie and Oswald were seen there."
It is not clear if this second training camp was in existence in Aug 1963 or came into existence sometime later on in the year after the other one was raided on July 31stt. My statement in my opening post is contradicted by Carlos Bringuiers WC testimony in which he said it was not public knowledge about the training camp (implying the July 31st raid was not publicized in the newspapers):
Mr. LIEBELER. You indicated that Oswald had come to your store or offices on August 5, 1963?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald came to you offering to assist in the military training of Cubans?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. At that time, there was, in fact, a training camp near New Orleans----
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. For the training of people for military action against Castro?
Mr. BRINGUIER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And that was not public knowledge at that time?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you are tying this up in your mind by considering the possibility that Oswald was, in fact, a Castro agent?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And did know about the existence of this training camp, because Mr. Fernandez had already himself infiltrated that training camp?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
I'm still not clear if the July 31st raid was publicized or not.
The possibility exists that Oswald did not know there was a training camp in New Orleans and when he offered his services to Bringuier to train cubans, Oswald meant that he was offering his services to the DRE in general throughout the U.S. wherever they might happen to have a training camp. That could even be Florida for example. There is nothing in Bringuiers testimony that Oswald was offering to train cubans specifically in New Orleans. Oswald could have been offering his services in general. Oswald knew Bringuier was the DRE delegate (he has DRE written beside Bringuers name in his address book).
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Some more info about there being two training camps in new Orelans. On another forum, Jim D said the following recently:
Jim D says there was "...one across Lake Pontchatrain, on land owned by Bill McLaney. It was raided on July 31st. Ferrie was a frequent presence at this camp. (ibid, pp. 29-30.) Even Summers said that Ferrie might have brought Oswald to this camp. But there were reports of another camp later on that summer/fall in Tangipahoa Parish, north of New Orleans, at a swampy area of Bedico Creek. (DiEugenio, Destiny Betrayed, second edition, p. 116) And there were reports that Ferrie and Oswald were seen there."
It is not clear if this second training camp was in existence in Aug 1963 or came into existence sometime later on in the year after the other one was raided on July 31stt. My statement in my opening post is contradicted by Carlos Bringuiers WC testimony in which he said it was not public knowledge about the training camp (implying the July 31st raid was not publicized in the newspapers):
Mr. LIEBELER. You indicated that Oswald had come to your store or offices on August 5, 1963?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald came to you offering to assist in the military training of Cubans?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. At that time, there was, in fact, a training camp near New Orleans----
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. For the training of people for military action against Castro?
Mr. BRINGUIER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And that was not public knowledge at that time?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you are tying this up in your mind by considering the possibility that Oswald was, in fact, a Castro agent?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And did know about the existence of this training camp, because Mr. Fernandez had already himself infiltrated that training camp?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
I'm still not clear if the July 31st raid was publicized or not.
The possibility exists that Oswald did not know there was a training camp in New Orleans and when he offered his services to Bringuier to train cubans, Oswald meant that he was offering his services to the DRE in general throughout the U.S. wherever they might happen to have a training camp. That could even be Florida for example. There is nothing in Bringuiers testimony that Oswald was offering to train cubans specifically in New Orleans. Oswald could have been offering his services in general. Oswald knew Bringuier was the DRE delegate (he has DRE written beside Bringuers name in his address book).
You're down , Mr Down.... Now stay down for the count....You're a fool if you get up and take more punishment....
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Some more info about there being two training camps in new Orelans. On another forum, Jim D said the following recently:
Jim D says there was "...one across Lake Pontchatrain, on land owned by Bill McLaney. It was raided on July 31st. Ferrie was a frequent presence at this camp. (ibid, pp. 29-30.) Even Summers said that Ferrie might have brought Oswald to this camp. But there were reports of another camp later on that summer/fall in Tangipahoa Parish, north of New Orleans, at a swampy area of Bedico Creek. (DiEugenio, Destiny Betrayed, second edition, p. 116) And there were reports that Ferrie and Oswald were seen there."
It is not clear if this second training camp was in existence in Aug 1963 or came into existence sometime later on in the year after the other one was raided on July 31stt. My statement in my opening post is contradicted by Carlos Bringuiers WC testimony in which he said it was not public knowledge about the training camp (implying the July 31st raid was not publicized in the newspapers):
Mr. LIEBELER. You indicated that Oswald had come to your store or offices on August 5, 1963?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Oswald came to you offering to assist in the military training of Cubans?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. At that time, there was, in fact, a training camp near New Orleans----
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. For the training of people for military action against Castro?
Mr. BRINGUIER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And that was not public knowledge at that time?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you are tying this up in your mind by considering the possibility that Oswald was, in fact, a Castro agent?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And did know about the existence of this training camp, because Mr. Fernandez had already himself infiltrated that training camp?
Mr. BRINGUIER. That is right.
I'm still not clear if the July 31st raid was publicized or not.
The possibility exists that Oswald did not know there was a training camp in New Orleans and when he offered his services to Bringuier to train cubans, Oswald meant that he was offering his services to the DRE in general throughout the U.S. wherever they might happen to have a training camp. That could even be Florida for example. There is nothing in Bringuiers testimony that Oswald was offering to train cubans specifically in New Orleans. Oswald could have been offering his services in general. Oswald knew Bringuier was the DRE delegate (he has DRE written beside Bringuers name in his address book).
Bringuier is NOT saying that Oswald knew about the camp.
Bringuier was asked if he was tying it up in his own mind that Oswald knew about the camp and he basically said yes.