JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Robert Reeves on January 24, 2022, 01:09:40 AM
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(https://i.postimg.cc/fR8gP3yF/woman-on-pedestal-complete.gif)
Kinda interesting(below). Jack White, I guess, might have been the first person to wonder what was really going on at Zapruder's position.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mDCjThZT/waltz.png)
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Oh, give me a break! You people grab the worst of the worst to try to cast doubt on any given subject re: the assassination.
The Hugh Betzner photograph shows Marilyn Sitzman behind Zapruder.
The Orville Nix film shown Marilyn Sitzman behind Zapruder
The Phil Willis Slide#5--although blurry-shows Marilyn Sitzman behind Zapruder.
Orville Nix recorded the exact same sequence as Bronson did with his movie camera. Marilyn Sitzman was behind Zapruder during the assassination. Abraham Zapruder took the film with his own camera.
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(https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/Image115.jpg)
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The Orville Nix film shown Marilyn Sitzman behind Zapruder
The Phil Willis Slide#5--although blurry-shows Marilyn Sitzman behind Zapruder.
Orville Nix recorded the exact same sequence as Bronson did with his movie camera. Marilyn Sitzman was behind Zapruder during the assassination. Abraham Zapruder took the film with his own camera.
Show me a clear frame from the Nix film that ends this debate. Same with all the other photography from the day.
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No matter what, you'll never admit that this single frame out of many, shows Miss Sitzman is behind Zapruder. Her head can be seen above his head. Her legs are visible between the blackness of Zapruder's pantlegs. And one more thing...The woman you have a square around her, carrying a purse and running toward the shelter area, is none other than Beatrice Hester, and the photograph you clipped her image from is several minutes after the assassination. Marilyn Sitzman did not have on a dark colored dress. It was light brown or tan. Watch Nix Flm here: To clear the bluriness from each frame, you will have to copy each frame and clear the bluriness to your own satisfaction. (http://i.imgur.com/J8rn6b3.png) (https://imgur.com/J8rn6b3)
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Is it a woman with white sleeves peering out of the pergola towards the railyard (like Zapruder further down) or a woman with an extremely long neck?
(https://i.postimg.cc/v8P7jV8Q/woman-or-ostrich.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KjgYJwv3/woman-on-pedestal.gif)
Below. The woman you say is Hester has a disproportionate size head, compared to Zapruder's (in the next along in the end pergola). Her head and neck fill the entire opening.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3xydRyHF/large-head.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/1XLbrYft/stretched.jpg)
With Hue turned up a bit you can see faint outlines of white sleeves almost like they're pointing through the pergola openings
(https://i.postimg.cc/0299FzQy/white-arms.jpg)
To me it looks like someone with white long sleeves is pointing through the pergola opening towards the railway yard. Similarly facing the railway yard and concerned at what might be happening there, as with Mr Zapruder.
And I seem to remember the Hester's saying they thought a shot was fired from the pergola openings over them. Or at least across them.
Mrs CHARLES HESTER, 2619 Keyhold Street, Irving, Texas, advised that sometime around 12:30 p.m., on November 22, 1963, she and her husband were standing along the street at a place immediately preceding the underpass on Elm Street, where President Kennedy was shot. Mrs HESTER advised she heard two loud noises which sounded like gunshots, and she saw President KENNEDY slump in the seat of the car he was riding in. Her husband grabbed then grabbed her and shoved her to the ground. Shortly thereafter they went across to the north side of the street on an embankment in an attempt to gain shelter. She stated that she believes she and her husband actually had been in the direct line of fire. She did not see anyone with a gun when the shots were fired and stated she could not furnish any information as to exactly where the shots came from. After the President’s car had pulled away from the scene, she and her husband proceeded to their car and left the area as she was very upset,” 24H523
Interesting we have a 3rd party commentary (underlined) on what Mrs Hester actually said. Omitting any actual declaration of a vital witness. And reducing any chances of a second shooter to muddy the waters.
Whoever whatever, ALL of those present in the pergola area on that day knew much more than they let on.
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On Saturday Nov. 20th 1993...there was a conference in Dallas, as well as the ASK symposium, at the Southern Methodist University called " Reporter's Remember: 11/22/63.
Below is from a little book that was printed in relation to the conference..
Published by Darwin Payne
"Reporting the Kennedy Assassination".
Page 55..
""Vivian Castleberry:
“Because when I got back finally at three o'clock that afternoon at the paper, it was bedlam and it was organized chaos at the Times Herald. But about between 3 and 4 o'clock, I had a telephone call from a first cousin. And her first words to me were, "Today I saw the President die.” And I said "Peggy don't say another word until I put a piece of paper in my typewriter." And she quoted to me almost in exact detail what Mary (Woodward) has already told you.
The interesting thing was that Peggy was Abe Zapruder's direct assistant, and so far as I know she was never interviewed by the Warren Commission.( no she was not) She was standing next to him when he took the famous film and was holding some of his camera equipment even while he did it. I thought that was a fascinating detail that maybe you would be interested in.""
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Also from Sheldon Inkol "The Fourth Decade" Jan.94..vol no.2..Who was present at the "Reporters Remember" Conference.
Having slipped away from ASK..
Vivian Castleberry: Dallas Times Herald revealed that her first cousin, Peggy Burney, was Abraham Zapruder's assistant ...."And was next to him when he shot his famous film, she called and said, "Vivian, today I saw the President die." Castleberry's statement went unchallenged..
Sheldon Inkol also, in an email, has mentioned, that she seemed to have left immediately after all the presentations, that she was not present and he does not know if any of the others managed to speak with her..
Vivian Castleberry says it herself. Her Cousin, PEGGY BURNEY, was stood right next to Zapruder. She alleges Peggy was there with Zapruder as he filmed the assassination. But she was not, and has not - it seems, ever been interviewed about this astonishing fact!.
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The only people "muddying the waters" are kooks who see conspiracy in everything. Now you're trying to say that Marilyn Sitzman wasn't standing with Zapruder? In spite of every ounce of proof that's out there(and there's a lot of it! She was indeed standing behind him (Which, by the way, you completely ignored the Nix frame you demanded that I post. It's right there in living color, and there's also the Mary Ann Moorman Krahmer photograph that also shows her Standing behind Zapruder, with her left hand on her hip, just as we see her doing in the Hugh Betzner photograph). (http://i.imgur.com/dlcXJQY.jpg) (https://imgur.com/dlcXJQY)
You live in your own little world, and it's not the real thing.
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Ok, chain of evidence with the Moorman photograph? Exactly. FBI took it, and we have no idea what was done to it.
Same with Nix, and all the other photo's you claim are legit.
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You proved my point!
Because you were shown that Miss Sitzman was indeed standing behind Zapruder, and Zapruder did in fact film the motorcade-now all of a sudden neither it or the Nix film, or any of the photos I cite are "legit"! Have fun in your fake, little world Mr. Reeves. Where's your proof that everything thing I cite photographically isn't "legit"? You rely on nutcases like Jack White who claimed that the people standing along Elm Street as they appear in the Zapruder film were actually "Cardboard cutouts". He was destroyed when he testified at the HSCA hearings when asked a simple question about photogrammetry. He didn't know what it is, yet claimed to be an "expert" in photography.
So...why don't you prove to those who read this thread exactly where your proof is that the Mary Ann Moorman Krahmer photo, the Nix film and " and all the other photo's [ I ] claim are legit" (actually, it's spelled "Photos"--no apostrophe). And while you're at it, explain to us why the photos and film footage you use to "prove" a point are considered by you to be legit.
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@Mr Steve Barber (a drummer in a band)
1. you showed a frame from the Nix film. It confirms nothing. It's no more clearer proof of what you claim than what I claim in the versions of photographs I am displaying. You just cannot accept anyone questioning your version of events.
2. The FBI (and the Warren Commission) lied over and over in this case and even went out of their way to avoid asking witness statements of people (Peggy Burney) who were there (allegedly stood right next to Zapruder and the alleged Sitzman). So why does this not intrigue you? Why has this person been erased from the history books? are you not even moved to make a comment about this very strange situation that an eye witness to history has been erased from the official version of what we see in these photographs? these photographs you claim are legit do not even show Peggy Burney. Or maybe you can show her to me? You are a very angry hypocritical man.
3. You, just as I, are both unable to prove what is actually fact or fiction. We are both in the dark about what really happened that day because so many eye-witnesses and evidence was not given an airing to determine the truth about who shot JFK. Film alteration is clearly suspected by the Nix family. The Nix family claim to have not received the original Orville Nix film. Who has it? Why has it been hidden away?
4. I have relied on Jack White not once. I simply showed his claim that someone was blocking Zapruder's view.Here's what I actually said: ''Jack White, I guess, might have been the first person to wonder what was really going on at Zapruder's position.''.
5. So quit being a manipulative silly ass over a subject you clearly have no more legitimacy to feel a pompous self-righteousness about. Mr Steve Barber. Aren't you formerly a drummer? Who the hell are you to speak authoritatively about what is fact or fiction in the case of the assassination of JFK? Remind me why a drummer in a band has more rights to tell anyone what is fact or fiction.
6. You are in NO WAY more validated to question anything I say on this subject. All your evidence for 'truth' come with caveats of major suspicion, of irregular investigative procedure, mostly on behalf of the FBI and SS, the way both dealt with the evidence and witnesses of the assassination has been criticized by all except the few 'lone-nuts'. Like yourself.
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A. I am not " [A] very angry hypocritical man." I become frustrated
with people like yourself who post threads (like this one) that ask silly, ridiculous things, like: " Is the woman seen around the pergola also the person filming from the pedestal? " You can't be taken seriously if youactually believe such a thing.
I'm not the least bit "intrigued"about a woman who claims that Peggy Burney was standing with Zapruder on the concrete block because I know it's not true. The photographic evidence that it was Marilyn Sitzman, not Peggy Burney, is overwhelming.
B. You have no idea what you're talking about. A musician, yes,
but it appears that you haven't studied this case well at all. Basically, you just proved it. Otherwise, you would know about the work I contributed regarding the assassination disproving the erroneous conclusions reached for the HSCA by experts who claimed that there are gunshots on the Dictabelt. You know, the only "Scientific proof" of a conspiracy stemming from a Dallas police Dictabelt recording that was proved to have captured the "Sound of gunshots" on 11/22/63?
Furthermore, I am not a newcomer to this topic. I began research long, long before the Stone movie "JFK" and before the Zapruder film was shown on TV.
C. "Mr Steve Barber. Aren't you formerly a drummer? Who the hell
are you to speak authoritatively about what is fact or fiction in the
case of the assassination of JFK? Remind me why a drummer in a band
has more rights to tell anyone what is fact or fiction."
I've never claimed to have any "rights" to tell anyone what is fact or
fiction". I do, however, know fact from fiction when I see it, since
common sense is all one needs to see that someone is trying to pull
the wool over everyones eyes, and I speak out. If you don't like it,
move on. I do have the right to do so.
I base what I say on facts. The fact that you won't admit that
Marilyn Sitzman and Zapruder are both standing together on the
concrete block he filmed the assassination from, Zapruder standing in
front of Sitzman, indicates to me that you won't admit that you're
wrong when I submitted my answer to the question you asked in your
post, which is: " Is the woman seen around the pergola also the person
filming on the pedestal?" I mentioned that it's Beatrice Hester, and
you right away changed the subject, ignoring that I told you it's
Beatrice Hester. You even said that the woman ("around the pergola") has an unusually long neck, then
brought up this stuff about Peggy Burney. This is how conspiracy
buffs operate. Someone answers your question, you immediately
interject with another off the wall topic right in the middle of a
topic being discussed.
D. You say that because the FBI took Mary Ann Moorman Krahmer's snapshot
of the fatal shot hitting JFK from her--and that because I posted a
clear print of it showing Zapruder and Sitzman in the same position as
they appear in the Nix film frame that I shared--that "we" don't know
what they did to it", and you then told me to explain the chain of
custody for it and the Nix film. Mary Ann is on Facebook. Why don't
you contact her and let her tell you herself what the chain of custody
is? She knows exactly what is in her photograph. She's sharp as a
pin, and remembers everything about that day.
E. " Film alteration is clearly suspected by the Nix family. The Nix family claim to have not received the original Orville Nix film. Who has it? Why has it been hidden away? "
With the Nix film, I'm inclined to believe Mr. Nix when he said that some of the frames are missing. It could very well be that it was damaged while in the hands of the FBI or whomever they used to make copies of the film. I've always thought it a bit curious that during the Elm Street sequence, both the Nix and Muchmore films begin at almost the same location during the assassination.
I guess you've never read the book "Killing The Truth" by Harrison Livingstone (R.I.P.). You can get it very cheap on Ebay. I was interviewed by Livingstone for this book. I know who says they have the original Nix film because three other people and I heard it straight from the horses mouth in his home. I gave the information over to Gayle Nix in 2013 when she heard about it and emailed me. You might want to get Livingstone's book. It conatins a record one of many of my most bizarre visits while meeting with researchers, during my travel.
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I just consulted my copy of the book and it says nothing about where the original Nix film is. It contains a memorandum written by Steve about a visit to Robert Groden's home in 1980 where Groden allegedly told him that he kept original films and photos examined by the HSCA and put copies in their place. So the implication here is that Groden has it. Livingstone had a huge grudge against Groden, claiming that Groden took credit for Livingstone's work. Gayle said she asked Groden point blank if he had it and he denied it.
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I just consulted my copy of the book and it says nothing about where the original Nix film is. It contains a memorandum written by Steve about a visit to Robert Groden's home in 1980 where Groden allegedly told him that he kept original films and photos examined by the HSCA and put copies in their place. So the implication here is that Groden has it. Livingstone had a huge grudge against Groden, claiming that Groden took credit for Livingstone's work. Gayle said she asked Groden point blank if he had it and he denied it.
Thanks for adding this. I don't know as much as both of you when it comes to the Nix film. But were told to trust what we see in these assassination day movies by people like Steve. But yet, there are very strange circumstances in these extremely important amateur movies. Particularly when these movies were snatched by the authorities so quickly went into secure storage. Away from the public eyes. Both Nix and Z-film have lingering doubts as to the claims about unaltered legitimacy. The Z-film still shows a man thrown backwards. I'm just winding Steve up!