JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jake Maxwell on January 11, 2022, 04:30:34 AM
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I’ve been looking at all the assassination films for over 15 years...
This one image found in The Lost Bullet is fairly conclusive... An overlay was used to obscure the Zapruder film...
Leading to the question: Was Time/Life part of the conspiracy?
Whose image is this?
(https://i.ibb.co/mBgW4Rg/Screen-Shot-2022-01-10-at-9-53-32-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/xsdT62d)
(https://i.ibb.co/KLMLLMW/Screen-Shot-2022-01-10-at-9-41-55-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/Nm8mm8K)
Another image from The Lost Bullet
(https://i.ibb.co/YLp9vyh/Screen-Shot-2022-01-10-at-11-18-09-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/P6wpB9g)
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It's Jackie Kennedy, cradling her shot husbands head. If it has been obscured it's obviously because it was considered too graphic. Brains hanging out etc. You've been looking at "assassination films for over 15 years" and don't recognise this image. !?!
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No... it’s not Jackie... sorry....
It is a super-imposed image of some sort... of a man’s face propped up by his hand, most likely...
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It could possibly be an image of Richard Stolley... Editor of Life magazine and the one who acquired the Zapruder Film...
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It could possibly be an image of Richard Stolley... Editor of Life magazine and the one who acquired the Zapruder Film...
Remarkable. After 58 years some still attempt to speak authoritatively on subjects they know nothing about.
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Sarcasm is not a reasonable response...
The image speaks for itself... and it says, “Someone’s face has been super-imposed on the Zapruder Film.”
(https://i.ibb.co/3rRQCxK/Screen-Shot-2022-01-13-at-3-03-29-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/j6JsrCt)
(https://i.ibb.co/r7pXjrd/Screen-Shot-2022-01-13-at-2-55-14-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/zn2tMv6)
To orient the viewer and to help see the hand propping the head... here’s an interesting picture of Zapruder in the identical pose...
(https://i.ibb.co/7YQHDDb/Screen-Shot-2022-01-13-at-2-57-22-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/znF1ggN)
(https://i.ibb.co/4gSwqD8/Screen-Shot-2022-01-14-at-10-41-23-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/jZw9Nxy)
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/28/47/YsIoAATY_o.jpg)
Pareidolia
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Superimposition…
ALSO... you aren’t using the best image from the film that’s available...
Here’s a higher quality image... at 6:44 in The Lost Bullet
(https://i.ibb.co/X2NkHGN/Screen-Shot-2022-01-13-at-9-43-44-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/p0GrqkG)
(https://i.ibb.co/4gSwqD8/Screen-Shot-2022-01-14-at-10-41-23-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/jZw9Nxy)
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Superimposition…
ALSO... you aren’t using the best image from the film that’s available...
Here’s a higher quality image... at 6:44 in The Lost Bullet
I could see the "face" in your earlier capture.
(https://i.ibb.co/4gSwqD8/Screen-Shot-2022-01-14-at-10-41-23-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/jZw9Nxy)
You don't notice that the left "eye" is on "Stolley's" left cheek?
You claimed this face "superimposition" was in the original Zapruder film. But it doesn't appear on any Zapruder frame. The "superimposition" was created in 2013 when a computer program haphazardly combined two sequential Zapruder frames into one to create an interpolation frame. Such blended frames are used to increase the frame count as the film speed of the Zapruder film (18 fps) differs from the HDTV film speed (greater than 18 fps).
Some people have a knack for spotting something that isn't there. Jack White was like that; he thought the baby in a picture of Marina and Lee was a doll prop. David Lifton spotted a rifleman wearing a German helmet on the knoll. Can't make this stuff up, folks.
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Jerry, I really don’t know what might have happened in 2013... or when the Library of Congress used the highest tech available a few years ago to digitize the film and then provided sequences for the film The Lost Bullet... in which these images appear...
What I do know with a fair amount of certainty... this image of a face that seems to be propped up with a hand, is not random... But each viewer will have to decide on that him or herself I suppose...
Is it Stolley? Don’t know... but who?
The several people I’ve shown it to, see it... I trust others will also...
(https://i.ibb.co/tZqfmg6/Screen-Shot-2022-01-14-at-12-13-34-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/SQtTsbg)
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Jake,
That's a pull-down frame from the telecining process. Look for the horizontal lines in your enlarged version.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine)
You can reproduce the same effect, albeit without the horizontal lines (I use Photoshop) by using the two consecutive progressive(real)frames and creating a third frame(in this example, I used a 50% transparency setting on the latter frame) and then align all three using the letter E as the alignment mark.
Yes, I see the face, but if you break down the two real frames, you can see how it appears to piece together that face.
(https://s10.gifyu.com/images/Pull-Down.gif)
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It could possibly be an image of Richard Stolley... Editor of Life magazine and the one who acquired the Zapruder Film...
Stolley had a boss, Otto Fuerbringer,
https://www.jfklibrary.org/sites/default/files/archives/JFKOH/Salinger%2C%20Pierre%20E.%20G/JFKOH-PES-01/JFKOH-PES-01-TR.pdf
Pierre E.G. Salinger Oral History Interview—JFK #1, 7/19/1965
...............................................................[-40-]
speech. He’d make sure that their lead stood up. Of course, he was a great technician in this
business in addition to understanding it. I remember one time when he practically knocked
Henry Luce [Henry R. Luce] out of his chair. Henry Luce walked in his office one day.
Kennedy said to him, “I see Otto Fuerbringer has gotten well and has gone back to work.”
Fuerbringer had been out for six weeks sick and it happened that he had come back to work
the issues before. Kennedy understood Time magazine so well. He knew Fuerbringer so well
that he hated him. He could tell the difference between Time when Fuerbringer was not there
and when he was there...
Hill School, Pottstown, PA, 1918
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51820396766_f161d33cf2_b.jpg)
https://www.tor.com/2013/08/09/toby-barlow-cia-agent-babayaga/
My grandfather sits on a train, waiting. It is early spring, 1937. His name is Philip Strong and he has boarded here in the Hamburg station, preparing to head to Berlin. Although I possess a volume of his letters from this trip, letters I have read many times, I am still not exactly sure why he is here.
He is 36 years old, a U.S. Marine Reserve Captain. But as a reserve officer, he is not travelling in uniform, instead he’s wearing an old tweed jacket. He has a bulky backpack stashed on the overhead rack. In his pocket is tucked his smoking pipe along with a small pouch of his treasured Dunhill tobacco.
Beside him sits a much younger man named Leko. They are on this sightseeing trip together. By all appearances, it is nothing more than that. They stay in youth hostels and ride on many trains such as this one, sitting back in the third class smokers.
It doesn’t make actually make sense that my grandfather would be here in any official capacity. He does not speak German or Russian, only a little French and only the most rudimentary Spanish. If the army had wanted someone to observe the European situation, they probably would have sent an agent who understood at least one of the various languages.
But it also seems too odd for him to be embarking on a journey with an itinerary that will take him through such a large number of the looming conflicts’ many theaters. He will travel from Germany on to Poland, the Balkans, Russia, then down to Kabul and Tehran, driving from there over to Baghdad and Beruit before shipping off to the already jittery East.
...
What is Philip Strong doing here? Maybe it is a bit of self-motivated opportunism. Perhaps he senses history coming and is cleverly placing himself squarely in its path.
Once they arrive in Berlin, Leko will strike up an acquaintance with a fellow name Otto Fuerbringer. This Otto fellow knows Berlin well so they all start travelling around town together. Otto is a Kansas City reporter, tall and handsome, my grandfather reports, a Harvard man. One day he will become the managing editor of Time Magazine. These are the sorts of people idly wandering around Hitler’s Germany in 1937, visiting all the various art museums, gardens and zoos (“the keeper who did the animal feeding was a born comedian.”)
Five years later, my grandfather will no longer be in the reserve, he will be very active. In January of 1942, he will report to the British BOE sabotage school in Canada. Not long after that, he will develop a complete training program for his new boss, the legendary “Wild Bill” Donovan at the O.S.S. In the O.S.S. training manual, my grandfather provides this handy tip for searching a captured prisoner:
Kill him first.
Later still, he will become a part of the original core team in the Central Intelligence Agency...
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/7a/54/Zg1S2mfn_o.jpg)
The software used by Image Trends to create sequences for "JFK: The Lost Bullet" would sometimes introduce suggestive artifacts, noticeable when certain interpolation frames are viewed in isolation. While assisting motion-smoothness (and allowing the show to promote new "enhancements"), interpolations should not be used in research.
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This is an image of a face that seems to be propped up with a hand...
Whatever process was used and whoever did this, this is most likely not a random artifact... There are far too many markers that point to the image of a human face to simply say the image is random...
Every viewer must make up one’s on mind about this...
(https://i.ibb.co/c1jgR7N/ezgif-com-resize-41.gif) (https://ibb.co/Qf4bh16)(https://i.ibb.co/tZqfmg6/Screen-Shot-2022-01-14-at-12-13-34-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/SQtTsbg)
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The baby does look odd.
(https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/ZTHJPS6EO7LS63SGGFL7OZIP4U.jpg)
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Have Stolley’s and Zapruder’s backgrounds and connections been thoroughly - or sufficiently - investigated?
I think Zapruder’s film was “commissioned" for the purpose of documenting the event - and mostly to document who was on the scene likely filming or taking pictures that might reveal the actions of nefarious characters on the Grassy Knoll taking aim at our president. It is why the focus of the camera is on the bystanders and less on the president’s limousine... That seems obvious when you watch the film...
I also think the purchase of the Z. film was prearranged... so that the release to the public could be limited... items could be removed (several minutes of the film are missing, I’ve read... and perhaps specific frames in the assassination sequence removed / some damaged...)... and other items distorted and covered over with an overlay to obscure viewing certain features... The film was screened for the Secret Service the day after the assassination...
The full movie was not shown to the public until the 1970’s... not because of the graphic nature of the film... but as part of the cover-up... in my opinion...
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Have Stolley’s and Zapruder’s backgrounds and connections been thoroughly - or sufficiently - investigated?
I think Zapruder’s film was “commissioned" for the purpose of documenting the event - and mostly to document who was on the scene likely filming or taking pictures that might reveal the actions of nefarious characters on the Grassy Knoll taking aim at our president. It is why the focus of the camera is on the bystanders and less on the president’s limousine... That seems obvious when you watch the film...
I also think the purchase of the Z. film was prearranged... so that the release to the public could be limited... items could be removed (several minutes of the film are missing, I’ve read... and perhaps specific frames in the assassination sequence removed / some damaged...)... and other items distorted and covered over with an overlay to obscure viewing certain features... The film was screened for the Secret Service the day after the assassination...
The full movie was not shown to the public until the 1970’s... not because of the graphic nature of the film... but as part of the cover-up... in my opinion...
In an alternate world in which the FBI and WC, with the cooperation of CIA, DIA, NSA, and ONI, had done a thorough investigation that minimized pre-conceived notions, the person most responsible for the opportunity for the creation of the Zapruder film
https://www.texasmonthly.com/arts-entertainment/abraham-zapruder-film-kennedy-assassinatin/
...and who appears in its opening frames would have been subjected to much more scrutiny because,
https://jfkassassinationindex.blogspot.com/2011/09/
ROGERS, SAM
Manager of Dobbs House at 1221 N. Beckley. Believed LHO had frequented the Dobbs House. His daughter-in-law is Brenda Simmons.
CE 3001; CD 1364, pp. 1-11
When the 1963 Dallas City Directory was sent to the printer, these two shared the same address.
Late that year, Lillian appeared in the opening frames of the Zapruder film. Husband Sammie did not die,
Lillian was not a widow. Sammie in the 1963 city directory became Sam in 1964, residing at a different address as reported in FBI documents. In the 1964 & in the 1965 directory, despite Lillian being a "wid", "Sam" Rogers was listed as Dobbs House manager.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51150228708_24b25bccbb_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51150229428_d820bebb49_c.jpg)
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Richard Stolley died last year at age 92.
A few years ago he gave an interview, describing how (@ 30:15) on the video) he thought his winning over
Lillian Rogers by talking to her about sports at Taylorville High School because of his knowledge gleaned from
working as sports writer at age 15 for the nearby Pekin, IL newspaper had established a rapport with Lillian that
influenced her to advise Zapruder to sell the film to Life Magazine.
Stolley telling the same inaccurate story,
https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/santa-fean-recalls-day-he-secured-rights-to-video-of-jfk-assassination/article_460e34d9-ecf0-51fb-b410-9fef8cb94bfb.html
The problem is that Lillian Dancoff grew up 100 miles from Taylorville, in Caseyville, IL.
Lillian's brother's 2003 obit,
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/azcentral/name/john-dancoff-obituary?id=28098296
...one sister Lillian Rogers of Dallas Texas
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So... Stolley tells a made-up story about Lillian... I’m not sure I can believe what he says about Zapruder and the film acquisition...
And I do wonder if Zapruder’s tears were only crocodile tears... intended to keep the public from asking questions about his possible involvement...
(https://i.ibb.co/4jCxqDQ/Screen-Shot-2022-01-17-at-7-41-10-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/ZhvCjwZ)
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Was Time/Life part of the conspiracy?
The media was told what to report.
The crappy image was due to a crappy camera not mounted on a tripod but held by an old man standing on a pedestal and shaking due to gunshots.
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Tom:
I did some research on Lillian Rogers/Dancoff back in 2013-2016, and I can add a little to what you have written above.
I was never able to find a marriage record for Sam Rogers and Lillian Dancoff, although I suspect they were married prior to Sam's enlistment on 16 September 1942.
Following his discharge in 1946, Sam and Lillian's whereabouts are unknown until they first appeared in Dallas City Directory records in 1957, living at 2917 Emmett Street - Lillian had started working for Zapruder's business in 1956, and she appears to have continued working for the company until it ceased trading, given that she listed herself as "retired" for the first time in the Dallas City Directory of 1978.
Sam and Lillian separated around 1962. There were allegedly two sons from their marriage, and Brenda Simmons - Sam's daughter-in-law - was possibly/probably married to one of the two sons.
Following his separation from Lillian, Sam remarried on June 15, 1964, but the marriage ended in divorce in October 1969. Sam died in Dallas on September 17, 1990.
Lillian never remarried, although she continued to live at the address she shared with Sam until at least 1966. From 1970 until her death in September 2005, she lived on Ravinia Drive in Dallas.
Interestingly, from 1970 until 1984, Lillian was listed at that address as Lillian V. Rogers, but from 1985 she was listed in the city directory simply as "L. V. Dancoff".
She was described to me by a family member as "an interesting and mysterious lady", and it appears that she never spoke to anyone about the events surrounding the assassination, or her involvement in them.
I have never been able to find a death record, death notice, or obituary for her in the Dallas media so if you ever find one, perhaps you might let me know, please?
Chris.
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This overlay transparency (from 0%, 18%, 30%, 40%, 50%) over Richard Stolley's photo (transparency at 65%) is remarkably eerie...
In my opinion there are some clear markers of similarity with Stolley’s face... and what seem to be very clear markers of similarity especially with his right eye...
Is this image, found in the Zapruder film (The Lost Bullet 6:44), Richard Stolley who acquired the Zapruder film for Time-Life?
Did Time-Life alter the Zapruder film?
(https://i.ibb.co/Dp5Hp1J/ezgif-com-resize-75.gif) (https://ibb.co/FVgLVhr)
(https://i.ibb.co/R6XdHbD/ezgif-com-resize-76.gif) (https://ibb.co/kDLvcBS)
(https://i.ibb.co/Y27LRmr/Screen-Shot-2022-01-26-at-1-11-55-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/y0nQft3)
(https://i.ibb.co/SVNzpQj/Screen-Shot-2022-01-26-at-1-12-56-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/vL1S8sF)
(https://i.ibb.co/qWZ7rkD/Screen-Shot-2022-01-26-at-1-17-46-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/Gthn5cd)
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This image is from the 6th Floor Museum copy (not the clearest at all, for some reason... You would think they would have the best copy!)... and this seems to indicate there was an overlay of a man’s face over the Kennedys...
I think there is more “information” in the original, or early copies of Zapruder, than we have been able to ascertain at this point... And I’m not sure, but all the digitized and “cleaned up” copies might have lost some “info” in the process...
Is this Stolley memorializing himself... or someone else trying to implicate him?
Or, is this someone else altogether?
Regardless of who this is... we can be fairly certain this is the face of a man... and it seems to indicate that there was an overlay of some sort...
I wonder if this was this on the very first copies being circulated - or if it was added later at some point...
(https://i.ibb.co/WBh682b/Screen-Shot-2022-03-18-at-6-59-12-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/QYgfSK2)
(https://i.ibb.co/MNvysmq/Screen-Shot-2022-03-18-at-6-58-38-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/KyPcXJC)