JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Alan Ford on September 25, 2021, 11:23:42 AM
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From a Memorandum from Messrs Ball & Belin to Mr Melvin Eisenberg, 18 March 1964:
(https://i.imgur.com/iL3osdx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KJyKcVh.jpg)
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From a Memorandum from Messrs Ball & Belin to Mr Melvin Eisenberg, 18 March 1964:
(https://i.imgur.com/iL3osdx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KJyKcVh.jpg)
I refer you to the Altgens6 photo. You know, Ralph Slinky's favourite image. Ralph is the Donald Trump of the JFK assassination inquiry.
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I refer you to the Altgens6 photo. You know, Ralph Slinky's favourite image. Ralph is the Donald Trump of the JFK assassination inquiry.
What are you yacking on about? ::)
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From a Memorandum from Messrs Ball & Belin to Mr Melvin Eisenberg, 18 March 1964:
(https://i.imgur.com/iL3osdx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KJyKcVh.jpg)
This from Mr Bonnie Ray Williams' testimony has long intrigued me:
Mr. Ball. Why did you go to the sixth floor?
Mr. Williams. Well, at the time everybody was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor. I think Billy Lovelady said he wanted to watch from up there. And also my friend; this Spanish boy, by the name of Danny Arce, we had agreed at first to come back up to the sixth floor. So I thought everybody was going to be on the sixth floor.
And here we have Messrs Ball & Belin discussing in an internal memorandum-------------written PRIOR to Mr Lovelady's WC testimony------------the fact that Mr Lovelady did indeed go back up to six
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Now!
Mr Lovelady will testify that he broke for lunch a little before 12, went downstairs and washed up, then got his lunch on one, bought a Coke in the second-floor lunchroom, and then came back down to one. Then...
I started going to the domino room where I generally went in to set down and eat and nobody was there and I happened to look on the outside and Mr. Shelley was standing outside with Miss Sarah Stanton, I believe her name is, and I said, "Well, I'll go out there and talk with them, sit down and eat my lunch out there, set on the steps," so I went out there.
However! Mr Danny Arce tells a very different story. He had lunch in domino room with Mr Jack Dougherty. And then...
Mr. Ball. Where did you go after that?
Mr. Arce. I went outside.
Mr. Ball. With whom?
Mr. Arce. With Billy Lovelady and Mr. Shelley and I was out there with Junior.
Is he saying here that he and Messrs Lovelady and Shelley actually went outside together, i.e. he didn't just meet them out there? Let's see...
Mr. Ball. (...) Who went outdoors with you?
Mr Arce. Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady; Carl was out there and Charles.
Mr Arce. You stood there how long before the parade came along?
Mr. Arce. I am not too sure; it was about 10 minutes, somewhere. around there. I am not too sure about that.
In response to Mr Ball's question, Mr Arce clearly distinguishes between two groups: people he went outside with (Bill & Billy) and people whom he met after going outside (Carl & Charles).
We are a long way here from Mr Lovelady's story that, ca. noon, he went outside on his own because a) the domino room was empty and b) he saw Mr Shelley (and Ms Stanton) already out on the steps!
This------------let us recall!-------------is the same Mr Billy Lovelady named in an internal WC memorandum as having eaten his lunch on the sixth floor and named by Mr Williams as someone who had fully intended to watch the P. Parade from up there
Did Mr Lovelady indeed eat his lunch up on six before being told----------approx. 15 mins before the motorcade's arrival------------to leave the floor?
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Furthermore!
Mr. Ball. Was Bonnie Ray Williams ever out there with you?
Mr. Arce. No, he stayed upstairs with Hank. Junior stayed up there but he was down a little while and I guess he went upstairs.
This suggests the following sequence:
1. Messrs Williams & Norman & Junior together upstairs
2. Mr Junior comes downstairs a little while, leaving Messrs Williams & Norman upstairs
3. Mr Norman also comes downstairs, rejoining Mr Jarman and leaving Mr Williams on his own upstairs
4. Messrs Norman & Jarman, just before the motorcade's arrival, deciding to re-join Mr Williams upstairs after all
I believe the choice of Messrs Jarman & Norman to go to FIVE rather than SIX was no accident, no 'stroke of luck' for whoever was on six. No--------these two employees KNEW that six was out of bounds AND that Mr Williams was now on FIVE. Mr Wiliams did NOT join them there, it was the other way around.
I believe further that the original agreement between a number of employees (as recollected by Mr Williams) to watch the P. Parade from the sixth floor was stuck to by at least some of them-------------but that NONE of them ended up watching from that floor because they were told up there that it was off bounds.
Mr Oswald, of course, would not have had the authority to direct fellow employees to leave the floor.
And, of extra-course, the sixth floor would have been THE most stupid floor for Mr Oswald to choose to shoot from, given the HIGH LIKELIHOOD that at least some co-workers would choose to watch the motorcade from that prime vantage point. An employee gunman acting alone would have chosen the little-visited seventh floor.
As for who WAS on the commandeered sixth floor, well we have some useful clues.
Starting with the middle-aged dark-complected man and the weapon-holding man seen in two sixth-floor windows by Mr Arnold Rowland some fifteen minutes before the assassination.
And the hat-wearing white man seen looking for something amongst boxes on six by Ms Mary Hall shortly before she left the Dal-Tex building to watch the P. Parade down on the street.
Thumb1:
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Now!
Mr. Specter. How about the windows in the group marked "B," was either of those windows open?
Mr. Rowland. They were both completely open.
Mr. Specter. Can you describe with any more particularity the people you saw in the window which you have marked "B"?
Mr. Rowland. There was a white man hanging out either "G" or "B," I do not remember which. He was the only white man, besides the man in these windows that I saw--
Mr. Specter. When you said "these windows" you mean the first window you marked with a black circle and a black arrow?
Mr. Rowland. Yes.
Mr. Specter. Is there anything else you can tell us about the people you saw in window "B"?
Mr. Rowland. I think to the best of my recollection there was either two or three people in window "B," and as I stated before, either "B" or "G" had a white man in the window. I do not remember which. I do remember it was one of the windows on the corner.
Mr. Specter. Do you recollect if the other people in window "B" were white or Negro?
Mr. Rowland. They were Negro.
There was nobody "hanging out" of window 'G', which was shut 'n' shuttered!
(https://i.imgur.com/f6axNmn.jpg)
Therefore THREE men in window 'B', two black and one white Thumb1:
Mr Rowland is describing at the southeast end of the fifth floor
-------Mr Lovelady OR Mr Dougherty (the less likely option, as Mr Arce has him in the domino room)
and
-------Mr Jarman AND/OR Mr Williams AND/OR Mr Eddie Piper
All three having been told to leave the sixth floor?
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EXPLORATORY HYPOTHESIS
Mr. Lovelady (as outlined in previous posts in this thread) did exactly what he told Mr. Bonnie Ray Williams he would do: he went back up to the sixth floor after picking up his lunch downstairs.
His lunch consisted of fried chicken and Dr. Pepper.
He first went to six, where he wasn't welcome.
He then went down to five, where he was not alone: one or two black employees were with him. His & their presence was noticed by Mr. Arnold Rowland.
At some point, Mr. Lovelady decided to come back downstairs and watch the P. Parade from the front steps. It was he who left behind the chicken bones & Dr. Pepper.
This last detail became a MAJOR headache for the 'investigating' authorities, who became aware of the figure of a man in a red shirt in Hughes drinking from a bottle just as Pres. Kennedy is coming onto Elm. St.:
(https://i.postimg.cc/1563MzKG/Hughes-doorway-longer.gif)(https://i.postimg.cc/hjqrzvM2/Hughes-coke-bottle.gif)
They needed this person to be Mr. Lovelady. They needed him NOT to have already consumed his lunch & soda upstairs. And so they decided that Mr. Lovelady's movements must narratively mimic those of Mr. Oswald.
Thus the following fake story was given him to tell: After breaking for lunch, I went up to the second-floor lunchroom and bought a Coke, then I came downstairs and went into the domino room, then I went outside with my lunch & Coke to watch the P. Parade
As for the chicken bones & Dr. Pepper bottle-----------Mr. Bonnie Ray Williams was made to take credit for them
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This last detail became a MAJOR headache for the 'investigating' authorities, who became aware of the figure of a man in a red shirt in Hughes drinking from a bottle just as Pres. Kennedy is coming onto Elm. St.:
(https://i.postimg.cc/1563MzKG/Hughes-doorway-longer.gif)(https://i.postimg.cc/hjqrzvM2/Hughes-coke-bottle.gif)
They needed this person to be Mr. Lovelady.
Now check out this interesting exchange from Mr. Lovelady's HSCA interview:
HSCA: If a movie camera showed you farther in the center of the doorway than that person there [i.e. Lovelady in Altgens, who appears, due to the deceptive angle, to be well over to the left/west of the entrance] would you still identify that person as being yourself?
LOVELADY: Sure would. I would say the other picture was not taken at the split second as the one to the left is.
HSCA: Okay, alright. If it showed two figures in that doorway at the same time, and you could positively identify one as yourself, would that have any bearing on your identification of that other figure?
LOVELADY: No, that’s still me at the left [of the] doorway.
So no matter who else is on the west side of that doorway, one truth is non-negotiable: The guy way over on the left is Mr. Lovelady and no other.
It's a curious fact that, though Wiegman and Altgens clearly establish that Mr. Lovelady was in fact close to the CENTER of the doorway, Mr. Lovelady ALWAYS stuck to the same line: Throughout the motorcade, I was way over at the left of the doorway.
Even when looking at Altgens, he says the same thing!
Has he completely forgotten the fact that he was near the center of the doorway when the shots rang out?
Doubtful. More likely he is just parroting the line he was fed by the 'investigating' authorities desperate to disappear Mr. Oswald from the steps: I was right over by the west wall... I was right over by the west wall... I was right over by the west wall...
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Hi Alan, And in this gif, it looks like Billy has stolen Lee's shirt and Lee is putting on another shirt! Thank you for everything! Sincerely yours, Michael
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/j1uf0Yefdam1ruwPfGujldCm4thTVV8BpF1sh-r1s4p7b0xPlpeBaGEch4cZRjmO6kkSTNDOWehpEVQseu4JlbJ6jfrHkaO--yu0h-ZKUvc30kt1=w1280)
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As for the chicken bones & Dr. Pepper bottle-----------Mr. Bonnie Ray Williams was made to take credit for them
The argument that the 55-60-y.o. dark-complected v. bald man in the bright plaid shirt seen hanging out at the sixth-floor window by Mr. Arnold Rowland was Mr. Bonnie Ray Williams was always pretty preposterous. But it always puzzled me that no one in the 'investigation' ever seems to have even tried to get Mr. Williams to 'admit' to having been at the SN window several minutes before the motorcade--------in order to explain away (to the gullible) Mr. Rowland's 'elderly Negro' as him. Nor did they pull out all the stops to make Mr. Eddie Piper--------a MUCH more visually promising candidate---------take the role.
No. They were much more interested in explaining away the chicken bones & Dr. Pepper.
If my exploratory hypothesis about Mr. Lovelady is right, then these mentions of Mr. Lovelady in the March '64 memo---------
(https://i.imgur.com/iL3osdx.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/KJyKcVh.jpg)
----------are no slips of the pen. They are evidence of an issue that was never allowed come to light in the WC testimonies. And they explain just why the chicken bones & Dr. Pepper were so inordinately radioactive to the 'investigation'.
Nothing to do with what Mr. Rowland saw on the sixth floor.