Sirhan will probably join the Taliban after his release and they will laugh their arses off at the current state of affairs.
I see. Arab people are all like that. ::)
Yawn. Again with the fake racism. Sirhan assassinated RFK because of his support of Israel.
He is a political terrorist.
Not because he is Arab but due to his actual violent acts and motives.
Save your fake outrage for a person who is more deserving. Like folks who wear blackface.
I think it was linked to jets and bombers.
Yes, Robert Kennedy wanted to see the Palestinian people destroyed.
Nah. You didn't check out Sirhan's opinions on the Taliban. You just saw a stereotype, like the Mexican rapists and sh-thole countries.
I would say that as Sirhan is up for unopposed parole, he's about 1/10th as radicalized as you are.
You hate RFK
and support his murder by an anti-Semite terrorist?
And this has something to do with Trump and Mexico?
Rabbit hole nonsense. Sirhan was sentenced to death under the governing laws of the state in which he committed this murder. He should be thankful to the tax payers of California for paying for his food, cable TV, and accommodations for over five decades instead of sending him to the gas chamber as he deserved. How about we send him to Canada and you can share your radical anti-Israel and anti-American ideology together?
I disagree with his desire to destroy the Palestinian people. I don't think RFK had what it took to be President and he was out of his league. He didn't have enough delegates to win the Comvention, so he was angling for the Vice-President spot. Or like JFK in 1956, using the Convention as a springboard for a Presidential run four years later.
And you support murdering tens-of-thousands of people with sophisticated military aid.
Your racism and stereotyping is the common theme.
Fox News/Breitbart labeling. You got caught stereotyping. Arab-in-USA --> Richard's brain --> Taliban joiner.
RFK wanted to "destroy" the Palestinian people by supporting Israel?
Sounds like you believe his murder was justified on anti-Semitic grounds. I can't make heads or tails of the rest of this offensive post. I explained the connection between Sirhan and terrorism. It has nothing to do with racism but the legal definition of the word "terrorism." Let us know if this legal definition applies to the assassination of a US Senator due to his support of Israel:
Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against person or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."
Sirhan will probably join the Taliban after his release and they will laugh their arses off at the current state of affairs.
Earlier this year The Washington Post reported that Robert F. Kennedy Jr, the dead senator's son, had visited Sirhan in a San Diego prison and afterwards had joined the so-called conspiracy theorists.
Following a three-hour visit with Sirhan, currently incarcerated on a life sentence, Kennedy left that meeting holding the belief a second gunman was involved in his father's assassination.
In 2008, two forensic experts claimed more than a dozen bullets were fired at Kennedy, hypothesising that a second gunman had to have been present because Sirhan's revolver only held eight bullets.
A focus of the podcast, The RFK Tapes, is the possibility that Palestinian immigrant Sirhan may have been hypno-programmed and coerced into killing Kennedy 50 years ago.
The podcast references the CIA's once-secret MKUltra program of the 1950s and 60s during the Cold War, which experimented with manipulation of people through drugs, torture and mind control techniques.
On the podcast, archived recordings of LAPD interviews with witnesses and bystanders who wrestled Sirhan to the ground after Kennedy was shot have described his "enormously peaceful eyes".
An LAPD officer also recalled Sirhan as having "a blank, glassed-over look on his face" and it appeared as if "he wasn't in complete control of his mind".
https://www.9news.com.au/world/robert-kennedy-assassination-sirhan-sirhan-hypnosis-conspiracy-theory/072a488c-b70f-48cc-bde8-638a0cfad0e1
In February of this year, Schrade spoke directly to Sirhan, the man who shot him in the forehead 48 years ago.
“Sirhan, I forgive you,” Schrade said.
The scene was Sirhan’s 15th parole hearing, in San Diego. Schrade defied parole officials who warned him not to address Sirhan.
“The evidence clearly shows you were not the gunman who shot Robert Kennedy,” Schrade continued. “There is clear evidence of a second gunman in that kitchen pantry who shot Robert Kennedy. One of the bullets — the fatal bullet — struck Bob in the back of the head. Two bullets struck Bob literally in his back. A fourth bullet struck the back of his coat’s upper right seam and passed harmlessly through his coat. I believe all four of those bullets were fired from a second gunman standing behind Bob. You were never behind Bob, nor was Bob’s back ever exposed to you.”
Schrade brought with him a 2012 letter by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. asking then U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to examine the audio recording. Schrade had made a similar request of Holder, including exhibits with his plea…
Both Paul Schrade and RFK Jr have met with Sirhan and lobbied for his parole:
https://www.nhregister.com/columnist/article/COOL-JUSTICE-RFK-Jr-points-to-forensic-evidence-11326803.php
Sirhan was "just a patsy"
He’s a Christian Arab
Both Paul Schrade and RFK Jr have met with Sirhan and lobbied for his parole:
https://www.nhregister.com/columnist/article/COOL-JUSTICE-RFK-Jr-points-to-forensic-evidence-11326803.php
He's a self-confessed anti-Semite terrorist. He confessed that he killed RFK due to his support of Israel. Whatever lies he is telling now doesn't change that. He should have been executed pursuant to his original sentence.
I guess you weren't on the receiving end of that "aid" in the form of Phantom jets. Of course, many Palestinians and much of the Arab World think Israel through the US has impacted and ruin their region's future.
Does the new terrorist laws apply to cases five decades ago? Gee, if we're going to try old cases by modern standards, there's more than a few incidents going back two centuries to do with Native Americans and black people that need addressing.
Somehow it doesn't apply to the USA and Israel. ::)
Hating Israel because you were ethnically cleansed from your family’s homeland is a pretty good reason and not at all anti-semetic.
Whether you believe Sirhan or not, the forensic evidence conclusively proves there was more than one shooter.
Why the RFK assassination gets so much less attention than JFK’s, I’m not sure.
But the evidence is pretty shocking.
Sirhan at 1:10: "I sincerely regret my actions...I was young..I was immature...I was wild...."
JohnM
A "pretty good reason" for what? Murdering RFK? Hating Jews? Sirhan was living in LA. He left Palestine as a child. He was literally arrested with the murder weapon in his hand. There is no credible evidence of a second shooter. That is tin foil hat stuff.
Being driven out of your native country due to war is a good reason for hating Israel the same way Cuban exiles have good reasons for hating Fidel Castro.
There were 10-14 shots fired. Sirhan’s gun only held 8 bullets. There were powder burns on RFK’s clothes and head but Sirhan never got within 5 feet of Kennedy.
Sirhan at 1:10: "I sincerely regret my actions...I was young..I was immature...I was wild...."
Nothing about being hypnotized or controlled by others. He took responsibility.
The CIA didn't have the ability to "control" minds; MKUltra was a disaster, a disgrace. They gave psychotropic drugs to people and lost control of them. They weren't able to control them.
So killing RFK was justified? It's hard to follow your point. He has been paroled. Hopefully moves to Canada. The rest is absolute lies.
So to be clear, you are equating the USA and Israel to terrorists.
And Canada, with a blackface wearing Prime Minister and history of ethnic cleansing, is somehow excluded from this moral high ground. You should be ashamed.
(CNN)Sirhan Sirhan, the man convicted of assassinating Sen. Robert F. Kennedy in 1968, was recommended for parole on Friday. After spending 53 year in prison, the 77-year-old inmate's fate now rests in the hands of California's governor.
Two of Kennedy's surviving sons, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Douglas Kennedy, offered their support for parole during Sirhan's 16th appearance before the parole board Friday.
"I'm overwhelmed just by being able to view Mr. Sirhan face to face. I think I've lived my life both in fear of him and his name in one way or another. And I am grateful today to see him as a human being worthy of compassion and love," said Douglas Kennedy.
The two-person panel recommended parole, but said the decision is not yet final. Despite the recommendation for release, the board's decision could be reversed by California Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will review the case to determine if the parole grant is consistent with public safety, a process that could take a few months.
You two countries seem to have an hugely inflated opinion of yourselves and correspondingly low opinion of the rest of the world.
Ah, Trudeau hasn't worn blackface since Donald Trump put away his Klan outfit. BTW, Election Day is Monday, September 20th. Blackface and residential schools don't seem to be a campaign issue. You must be jealous, that a true democracy has a diversity of parties, is mature to the point of fairly-assessing and forgiving youthful indiscretions, and function for the People, not just the One Percent.
Canada among the top ten most peaceful countries; the US ranks 121st. Metric system, renewable energy, bilingualism. Must drive you radicalized fascist reactionaries crazy.
Canada's "ethnic cleansing"? Ever hear tell of glass houses? :P
One of the detectives who came out of retirement to help with the LAPD’s investigation of RFK’s murder was a CIA spook. Dan Pena, the son of Manny Pena, talks about his dad in the video below:
Enrique Hernandez who worked on the case, is also alleged to have had ties to the CIA.
Both men spent time working for the US in Latin America aside from their jobs in the LAPD.
The CIA/Intelligence links could just be coincidental.
I find the forensic evidence in RFK’s case to be enough to conclude that there was more than one shooter.
Sirhan was apprehended at the scene with the smoking gun literally in his hand. He did it. He is a self-confessed terrorist. Even if you want to believe others were involved, it makes no difference as to his guilt and motivation.
If he was under hypnosis or drugged and there was a second gunman, he’s innocent.
And there’s evidence suggesting that he was not lucid at the time when he was arrested.
I wonder if the governor will make a decision before his recall election in September. And how this might or might not affect his chances of staying in office. Some say that the recall election is going to be close. I think all this was orchestrated in the name of politics. I believe that the LA district attorney should have done his job and been represented at the parole hearing as against parole (as has been done in the previous 15 hearings). The whole thing is ridiculous and reeks of partisan politics.
Huh? He was arrested at the scene with a smoking gun. I'm not sure what not being "lucid" has to do with this. He claimed that he was drunk. So what? If you think Sirhan was under some type of CIA Manchurian Candidate mind control, that is far out stuff. Do you think anyone in their right frame of mind shoots a US Senator running for president?
Sirhan was never behind Kennedy but Kennedy was shot from behind.
The fact that he was arrested on the scene with a gun doesn’t prove others weren’t involved.
One of the men he shot, Paul Schrade, believes it was a conspiracy and lobbied for Sirhan’s parole…
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Featured_Paul_Schrade_at_Sirhan_Sirhan_Parole_Hearing.html
Gascon was kicked out of SF for being too liberal. That should tell you something. Crime in that city increased 50% while he was there. He is an empty the prisons socialist. Relying on Newsom to do the right thing is an act of desperation.
RFK turned away when he saw Sirhan pointing the gun at him. There is no credible proof of a second shooter. None. But even if you believed that, Sirhan was an assassin. A second shooter would not absolve him of that guilt.
Being driven out of your native country due to war is a good reason for hating Israel the same way Cuban exiles have good reasons for hating Fidel Castro.Where's the evidence that he was "driven out" of his native land by Israel? Jordan was in control of the West Bank where he lived in 1956 when he left not Israel. What did Israel have to do with his departure? And he was 12 when he left. He went with his family. Do you think he knew anything about politics at that age?
There were 10-14 shots fired. Sirhan’s gun only held 8 bullets. There were powder burns on RFK’s clothes and head but Sirhan never got within 5 feet of Kennedy.
Where's the evidence that he was "driven out" of his native land by Israel? Jordan was in control of the West Bank where he lived in 1956 when he left not Israel. What did Israel have to do with his departure? And he was 12 when he left. He went with his family. Do you think he knew anything about politics at that age?He was born in Jerusalem. Why did he end up in Jordan before moving to the US? The 1948 war.
Cuban exiles left Cuba to escape repression after Castro hijacked the revolution and became a dictator.
So the analogy doesn't work for me. I'm sure it's my problem <g>.
As to the shots: Do you think he just happened to have a revolver in his hand at the same time RFK was shot? And while being subdued he continued trying to fire it? None of that had anything to do with RFK's death?
(CNN)Sirhan Sirhan, the man convicted of assassinating Sen. Robert F. Kennedy in 1968, was recommended for parole on Friday. After spending 53 year in prison, the 77-year-old inmate's fate now rests in the hands of California's governor.
Two of Kennedy's surviving sons, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Douglas Kennedy, offered their support for parole during Sirhan's 16th appearance before the parole board Friday.
"I'm overwhelmed just by being able to view Mr. Sirhan face to face. I think I've lived my life both in fear of him and his name in one way or another. And I am grateful today to see him as a human being worthy of compassion and love," said Douglas Kennedy.
The two-person panel recommended parole, but said the decision is not yet final. Despite the recommendation for release, the board's decision could be reversed by California Gov. Gavin Newsom, who will review the case to determine if the parole grant is consistent with public safety, a process that could take a few months.
Most of the focus has been on RFK, Jr. (the anti-vaxer) and Douglas Kennedy (the guy arrested for attacking the nurses in the maternity ward after his kid was born). But the vast majority of his surviving family have opposed Sirhan's release from prison:
Six of Robert F. Kennedy’s children vowed “to challenge every step of the way” the California parole board’s vote to release their father’s assassin, Sirhan Sirhan, from prison.
“We are devastated that the man who murdered our father has been recommended for parole,” they wrote in a statement issued Friday. “He took our father from our family and he took him from America. … We are in disbelief that this man would be recommended for release.”
Most of the focus has been on RFK, Jr. (the anti-vaxer) and Douglas Kennedy (the guy arrested for attacking the nurses in the maternity ward after his kid was born). But the vast majority of his surviving family have opposed Sirhan's release from prison:
Six of Robert F. Kennedy’s children vowed “to challenge every step of the way” the California parole board’s vote to release their father’s assassin, Sirhan Sirhan, from prison.
“We are devastated that the man who murdered our father has been recommended for parole,” they wrote in a statement issued Friday. “He took our father from our family and he took him from America. … We are in disbelief that this man would be recommended for release.”
Continued from my last two posts.
I don't have time to complete this now, but I will "set it up"...
You won't find any mention on wikipedia of Lowenstein's relationship with CIA from the time he was president of the NSA, the National Students Association.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allard_K._Lowenstein
"..Robert F. Kennedy assassination
Lowenstein was critical of the official account of the June 6, 1968, assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy. Lowenstein made a one-hour appearance on the PBS television show Firing Line in 1975, where he was interviewed by William F. Buckley Jr., in which he stated that he did not believe that Sirhan Sirhan alone had shot Kennedy. [15] ....Associations with conservatives
Lowenstein was a close friend of conservative commentator William F. Buckley, Jr., who featured Lowenstein on numerous Firing Line programs, publicly endorsed his candidacies for U.S. Congress, and delivered a eulogy at his funeral.[17][18]
Lowenstein reportedly was Republican Donald Rumsfeld's "best friend in Congress" during Lowenstein's term of office, the two having become good friends while serving as Congressional aides in the late 1950s. Despite their party and ideological differences, Rumsfeld joined Lowenstein on the victory platform upon Lowenstein's election to Congress in 1968. In 1970, Rumsfeld publicly defended Lowenstein against his Republican opponent's attacks, only to recant and endorse the opponent, Norman Lent, under pressure from the Nassau County (Long Island) Republican organization and Nixon White House. Rumsfeld's public reversal contributed to Lowenstein's reelection defeat and the end of their friendship.[10].."
It appears his charisma and ability to motivate and organize students was harnessed and repurposed for pre-emption and to lessen interference with the military draft apparatus...
Ramparts "outted him" in 1967, despite a 12 man team directed by Richard Ober to prevent publication of CIA interference in domestic affairs.
http://www.voxnews.com/index.php/component/k2/item/98-cia-userpation-press
The Userpation of the Free Press by the CIA - Harry
Written by Alex Constintine
Jul 8, 2014 — "On March 4, 1967, Richard Ober got a report from a person who attended a Ramparts staff meeting at which magazine reporters had discussed their ..."
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1986/01/30/allard-lowenstein-an-exchange/
Allard Lowenstein: An Exchange - The New York Review of ...https://www.nybooks.com › articles › 1986/01/30 › alla...
Jan 30, 1986 — To the Editors: Hendrik Hertzberg's review of The Pied Piper, ... that the CIA/NSA link can be traced to 1949, a year before Lowenstein ...Lowenstein was clearly concerned about what the FBI and the CIA might release about his CIA affiliation under a Freedom of Information Act request. The only damaging information was the material in the portions of his CIA file that was released to him. Because of the Privacy Act, this was available to him but not to the general public.
Finally, I rely on not one but three entries in Lowenstein’s diary to show that he informed on suspected Communists in the civil rights movement.
Richard Cummings
Bridgehampton, New York"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1985/03/04/al-lowensteins-tangled-legacy/edae458a-1ac9-4b88-83dd-587a5a65abf3/
Al Lowenstein's Tangled Legacy - The Washington Posthttps://www.washingtonpost.com › lifestyle › 1985/03/04
Mar 4, 1985 — Now comes "The Pied Piper: Allard Lowenstein and the Liberal Dream," ... Cummings now points to a 1962 CIA document he just received (not ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/opinion/eugene-mccarthy-lyndon-johnson-vietnam.html
Opinion
VIETNAM '67
The Myth of Eugene McCarthy
By Joshua Zeitz
March 8, 2018
"...Throughout the late summer and fall, Lowenstein traveled the country, coalescing antiwar party activists and students at the local level into a loose coalition. “I said we’ll build the base first,” he explained, then “the candidate will come along.” He first approached Senator Robert Kennedy of New York, who took the meeting simply out of courtesy to his young staff members, then Senator George McGovern; both said no. He then went to James Gavin, a liberal, retired lieutenant general who had served briefly as ambassador to France and who now argued that America was squandering resources in Vietnam that could be put to better use in the urban communities. He likewise said no. Finally, Lowenstein approached McCarthy, the senior senator from Minnesota. It took several conversations, but when McCarthy asked, “How do you think we’d do in a Wisconsin primary?” Lowenstein knew he had found his candidate. “I was ecstatic,” he said. “It was like music, like an organ welling up in my ears.”
https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bal-curtis-gans-a-man-who-changed-the-course-of-history-20150319-story.html
Curtis Gans, a man who changed the course of history
By BY JULES WITCOVER
MAR 20, 2015
"..Gans, who died Sunday at 77, teamed at Chapel Hill with Allard Lowenstein, later a New York congressman, and orchestrated the Dump Johnson movement in 1967. Together they persuaded Democratic Sen. Eugene McCarthy of Minnesota to challenge LBJ in the 1968 New Hampshire primary, and it worked beyond their dreams.
...Gans and Lowenstein, foot soldiers in the radical Students for a Democratic Society(SDS) and in the National Student Association, headed up a group called the Conference of Concerned Democrats to dislodge the president for prolonging the Vietnam War..."
Link: books.google.com › books (http://books.google.com › books
1971 · Snippet view
FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 29
paign : Thomas McCoy , Thomas Finney and Thomas Braden ( with Lowenstein as a possible fourth ) . McCoy was the most important , and the closest to McCarthy ...)
1971 · Snippet view
FOUND INSIDE – PAGE 29
paign : Thomas McCoy , Thomas Finney and Thomas Braden ( with Lowenstein as a possible fourth ) . McCoy was the most important , and the closest to McCarthy ...
Thomas Finney, Lawyer, Political Strategist, Dies - The ...https://www.washingtonpost.com › local › 1978/02/01
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1978/02/01/thomas-finney-lawyer-political-strategist-dies/dd8ecb8a-a8c7-4e66-bec0-32d4dd33c73a/
Feb 1, 1978 — ... Thomas D. Finney, a pioneer trial lawyer. He then served with the Central Intelligence Agency in Copenhagen, Denmark, from 1952 to 1955. ..He was a member of the prestigious law firm of Clifford, Glass, McIlwain and Finney, which he had joined in 1963...In 1968, Mr. Finney took a leave of absence from his law firm to work in the presidential campaign of Eugene McCarthy. He was considered to have the most political expertise in the organization.
Mr. Finney directed McCarthy's primary victory over Robert Kennedy in Oregon, visited the Kennedy family was assassinated and remained the McCarthy liason with Kennedy's followers..."
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=25004#relPageId=2
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51408346405_89c29f248a_b.jpg)
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=51733#relPageId=2
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51407353711_c140836ebf_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51408152454_d3fb9d11fb_k.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51406638547_6011b5f6de.jpg)
Nicely 'set up', Tom. Good posts should get bumps.
https://www.onthetrailofdelusion.com/post/edgar-eugene-bradley-another-garrison-victim
....
Original caption: (January 4, 1968)
"The photo shows Edgar Eugene Bradley, who was accused by District Attorney Jim Garrison of New Orleans of being part of the conspiracy to assassinate the late President Kennedy, as he holds a press conference to report the findings of a private lie detector test he had taken to prove his innocence in the case. Posing here only to show the equipment is Bradley. Behind him at left is his attorney, George Jensen, and at right, polygraph expert Major Chris Dugas." ...
http://the-puzzle-palace.com/files/pr598-rfk.html
....
Sirhan had been at the Ambassador the Sunday before election night. A girl matching the description of the polka dot dress girl was also seen there Sunday. Karen Ross described her to the LAPD as having a nose that had been "maybe fixed", a white dress with black polka dots, ¾ length sleeves, dark blond hair worn in a "puff" and with a round face. Sirhan and a girl were also recorded as behaving suspiciously at a previous Robert Kennedy appearance in Pomona on May 20th.
One man may have spent the last day of Kennedy’s life with this girl. While his tale is extraordinary, it is eerily credible for the nuances and details which matched other evidence of which he could not possibly have been aware. Kaiser and Houghton referred to this man by the pseudonym of "Robert Duane." His real name is John Henry Fahey.42
June 4th with the Mystery Girl
At 9:15 A.M. on June 4th, Fahey entered the back of the Ambassador Hotel. He had planned to meet another salesman there 45 minutes earlier, but had left late and been held up in traffic. On his way up the back stairs, he noticed two men he thought looked Spanish. When they spoke, however, he realized it wasn’t Spanish because he knew Spanish. He presumed they were kitchen workers.
While in the lobby area, he spotted a pretty girl and made a flirtatious comment to her. She asked him where the Post Office was, and he couldn’t help her, and she left. About ten minutes later, she returned. He invited her to join him for breakfast in the coffee shop at the hotel. She spoke "very good English" but also had a "slight accent" that he couldn’t place. He asked her where she was from. She said she had only been there three days, and that she was from Virginia. Fahey had a relative in Virginia, and asked her if she knew Richmond, whereupon the girl said she really had come from New York, and before that a middle-eastern country ("Iran" or "Iraq", Fahey thought). She mentioned specifically Beirut. (Fahey had to ask his interviewer if there was a place named "Beirut".) She also mentioned "Akaba". When he asked her name, she gave him one, and soon another, and another. He didn’t know what her real name was. She, meanwhile, pumped him for as much information as she could get, asking his name, his occupation, and his business at the hotel. When he asked her about her own business, she said "I don’t want to get you involved...I don’t know if I can trust you to tell you the whole thing."
She told him that they were being watched, and indicated a man near the door of the coffee shop. Fahey saw a man he thought might be Spanish or Greek, resembling one of the men he had seen on the back stairs when entering the hotel. He thought the man resembled Sirhan, except that this man was taller and had sideburns. When later shown pictures of Sirhan’s family, Fahey said the man was not one of the Sirhan brothers.
The girl wanted Fahey to help her get a passport. Fahey said he had no idea how to do that, at which point she explained to him that you just find a deceased person, use their Social Security Number and write to the place where he was born to get a passport. He said she seemed shaken, and very nervous, with clammy hands, and that she seemed to be genuinely in some sort of trouble.
He described her as "Caucasian" but with an "Arab complexion, very light." He called her hair "dirty-blond" and guessed her age might be 27-28. He said her clothes, shoes and purse were all tan. In addition, he felt the purse and stockings looked foreign. He also said "Her nose was of—on the hooked fashion where you can realize that she was from the Arabic world." Asked if the nose was what one might call prominent, Fahey answered affirmatively.
Fahey had business calls to make in Oxnard, and invited the girl to come along for the ride with him, since she seemed so troubled. When they got up to leave, she wanted to pay the bill, and opened a purse where he saw a fistful of money in her wallet—"big stuff—50 dollar bills—hundred dollar bills."
They drove up the coastal route through Malibu. Two different tails followed them for part of the way. At one point, Fahey was so nervous he pulled off the road, thinking the tail would leave him. As he started to get out of the car, he noticed the girl eyeing his keys, and thinking she might run off with his car, decided not to get out after all. During the ride, she said the people tailing them were "out to get Mr. Kennedy tonight at the winning reception." He thought they should call the police to get rid of the tail but she insisted they should not call the police, and asked to be taken back to Los Angeles. In the end, although they drove to Oxnard, Fahey opted out of his sales calls and returned with the girl to the Ambassador Hotel. After driving and eating meals, they returned at around 7pm, where he dropped her off. She wanted him to come into the hotel with her. When he refused, she got angry.
Fahey might not have thought of this incident again had it not been for the assassination and the story of the strange woman who ran out into the dark afterwards. A frightened Fahey called the FBI and told them he thought he might have spent the day with that woman. After talking to the FBI, Fahey read a story by journalist Fernando Faura in the Valley Times about the polka dot girl. He called Faura and told him he might know something about the girl. Faura was hot on the trail of the mystery girl, and took Fahey’s detailed description of the girl to a police artist. Fahey tweaked the image with the artist until he saw a match.
Faura then showed the drawing to Vincent DiPierro. "That’s her," DiPierro responded. "She’s the girl in the polka-dot dress. The girl’s face is a little fuller than this sketch has it, but this is the girl."43 Faura then brought in Chris Gugas, a top Los Angeles polygraph operator, who put Fahey and his story through a lie detector. Faura told Fahey he passed the test "like a champion."44
Jordan Bonfante, the Los Angeles Bureau Chief of Life magazine, was interested in publishing Faura’s account. Hank Hernandez of SUS, however, was busy trying to crack Fahey under his own polygraph test. Under pressure from Hernandez, Fahey told an untruth, saying it was Faura who had persuaded him to connect the girl he was with to the polka dot girl. But Fahey had made the connection to the FBI long before he ever spoke with Faura. But this lie was pronounced "true" by Hank Hernandez, proving again that a polygraph’s value depends a great deal upon the integrity of the operator. Sgt. Phil Alexander tried to persuade Bonfante that Fahey was not credible, and that Life shouldn’t run the story on the girl. Kaiser amusingly recounts this incident:
"I don’t think you’ve really proved that [Fahey] was mistaken," said Bonfante. He was right. It was practically impossible to do so. But if the police didn’t do so, the implications were that there was a girl who knew something about the Kennedy assassination and that the police couldn’t find her. That was a black eye for the department.
To Bonfante, this sounded too much like Catch 22 to be true. He decided to discover how important this was to the LAPD and let Alexander talk. Six hours later, Alexander was still talking, and had not yet managed to persuaded Bonfante there was no "girl in the polka dot dress."45
So then the final question is this. Was the LAPD really so deficient? Could they really not find the girl? Amazingly, the LAPD evidence log itself contains a plausible name that may well lead to the heart of the conspiracy.
The Girl Revealed? ....
Continued from my last post,
I'm reacting to Fred Litwin opening his blog post I linked to in my last post, with Fred's intro, mentioning of Major Chris Gugas polygraphing a man Fred describes as a victim of Jim Garrison, Edgar Eugene Bradley...
Chris Gugas, 86; leading polygraph expert found that in ...https://www.latimes.com › archives › la-xpm-2007-nov...
"Nov 15, 2007 — Chris Gugas built a career on one simple human foible: the tendency to lie. A polygraph expert, Gugas spent decades ferreting out the truth ..."
Chris Gugas, polygraph expert - The Press Democrathttps://www.pressdemocrat.com › article › news › chris-g...
"Nov 15, 2007 — A polygraph expert, Gugas spent decades ferreting out the truth using a lie detector test. The tests he administered helped confirm the sins of ..."
Chris Gugas Sr.; Administered Over 40,000 Lie-Detector Tests http://www.washingtonpost.com › AR2007111101651
"Monday, November 12, 2007. Chris Gugas Sr., 86, whose career as a leading polygraph expert uncovered whether the famous and the anonymous were telling the ..."
Polygraph expert Chris Gugas dies | National News - Winston ...https://journalnow.com › news › polygraph-expert-chris-g...
"Nov 16, 2007 — Chris Gugas Sr., a past president of the American Polygraph Association and a leading figure in the history of the profession, ..."
Chris Gugas, advocate for use of polygraph - The Boston Globehttp://archive.boston.com › Globe › Obituaries
"Los Angeles Times / November 16, 2007. LOS ANGELES - Chris Gugas Sr., a past president of the American Polygraph Association and a leading figure in the ..."
So, the guy was good, right, an expert in his field?
My question is, if Edgar Eugene Bradley was "a nothing burger," and Garrison was not actually putting on a show intended to make those demanding a reopening of the WC investigation by late 1966, seem shrill, unhinged, and unreasonable, what on earth prompted this "effort"?
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10312-10382.pdf
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51414657262_e5c3158d05_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51416389355_47f8d74614_b.jpg)
So, the next step seems to be to answer the question, what did a polygraph administered by Major Chris Gugas before August 14, 1968, confirm or contradict in the cases.... say... of Bradley, Sirhan, or James Earl Ray that irritated "the agency" to such an extent?
Update: Chris Gugas wasn't sought to polygraph James Earl Ray until Mark Lane represented Ray in 1977... The smear document of Aug. 14, 1968 created by the CIA seems a reaction to the following that makes it seem "the agency" wanted Garrison to arrest Edgar Eugene Bradley.:
Origin of the Chris Gugas, CIA smear was found in the Gordon Novel file...
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48920#relPageId=97
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51416494200_4fc54edc9d_b.jpg)
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20Materials/Garrison%20News%20Clippings/1968/68-01/68-01-033.pdf
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51415718618_c4d9546eed_b.jpg)
Ahh, some sanity! Thumb1:
Rory Kennedy speaks out:
Rory Kennedy on Wednesday asked California Gov. Gavin Newsom and prison officials to reject the parole recommendation for the man convicted of murdering her father, Robert F. Kennedy.
“I ask them, for my family and — I believe for our country, too — to please reject this recommendation and keep Sirhan Sirhan in prison,” the documentary filmmaker and youngest child of the senator and presidential candidate penned in a New York Times guest essay.
The 77-year-old Sirhan was granted parole by a two-person panel at his 16th parole hearing last Friday. Sirhan was convicted of fatally shooting RFK on June 5, 1968 in the kitchen of the Ambassador Hotel. Sirhan was sentenced to death, which was later commuted to life with the possibility of parole.
“My father’s murder was absolute, irreversible, a painful truth that I have had to live with every day of my life — he was indeed taken forever. Because he was killed before I was born, it meant I never had the chance to see my father’s face, and that he never had the chance to see mine,” she wrote. “For America, the price of my father’s life and ambitions cut short has been incalculable — for the thousands of young men who died in Vietnam as the war my father opposed ground on for nearly seven more years; for the millions living in poverty or under the yoke of racism; for the wrongfully convicted who have languished behind prison walls; for the generation of would-be leaders whose hopes and dreams my father carried with him. Who knows what his death has cost?”
The door jamb, ceiling panels and a center divider where the other bullets were allegedly lodged were taken from the Ambassador Hotel, scene of the 1975 shooting, to the Los Angeles police department's property department and later destroyed, Bugliosi said.
"The official position of the LAPD is that only Sirhan had a gun at the assassination scene. We now have conclusive evidence that another strange individual" was there.
The man had "attended Nazi meetings in LA. He did have a gun. It was loaded. There was a minimum of two loaded guns in the pantry. That person has not testified. They never test fired his gun and the whereabouts of the gun are not known.
"Sirhan is as guilty as sin. His conviction was a proper one. But it does not exclude the possibility (of a conspiracy)," Bugliosi said.
https://oklahoman.com/article/1964607/sirhan-didnt-act-alone-author-claims
Thanks for that. I read something today about a proposal by someone in San Francisco to pay violent criminals to not kill. I haven’t learned any details. But on the surface, it makes about as much sense to me as parole for Sirhan. What is the world coming to?
Rory Kennedy speaks out:
Rory Kennedy on Wednesday asked California Gov. Gavin Newsom and prison officials to reject the parole recommendation for the man convicted of murdering her father, Robert F. Kennedy.
“I ask them, for my family and — I believe for our country, too — to please reject this recommendation and keep Sirhan Sirhan in prison,” the documentary filmmaker and youngest child of the senator and presidential candidate penned in a New York Times guest essay.
The 77-year-old Sirhan was granted parole by a two-person panel at his 16th parole hearing last Friday. Sirhan was convicted of fatally shooting RFK on June 5, 1968 in the kitchen of the Ambassador Hotel. Sirhan was sentenced to death, which was later commuted to life with the possibility of parole.
“My father’s murder was absolute, irreversible, a painful truth that I have had to live with every day of my life — he was indeed taken forever. Because he was killed before I was born, it meant I never had the chance to see my father’s face, and that he never had the chance to see mine,” she wrote. “For America, the price of my father’s life and ambitions cut short has been incalculable — for the thousands of young men who died in Vietnam as the war my father opposed ground on for nearly seven more years; for the millions living in poverty or under the yoke of racism; for the wrongfully convicted who have languished behind prison walls; for the generation of would-be leaders whose hopes and dreams my father carried with him. Who knows what his death has cost?”
For those who aren't convinced that Sirhan is remorseful or believe he has lied for 50 years about not remembering committing the crime, what is your explanation for why he would lie?
What did he gain from pleading Guilty while saying he doesn't remember anything about the assassination?
He was guilty and had no hope of being found not guilty. Caught with the smoking gun literally in his hands. This is the time honored tactic of criminals in prison to garner sympathy. Like getting religion. He is trying to cast doubt on his guilt for the rubes who will take up his cause. Like James Earl Ray he is playing to the conspiracy theorists to get him out of jail. He also claims to have been drunk when he killed RFK and likely has some mental issues. So maybe his memory of events is not clear and he harbors some delusion that he didn't do it or was under mind control.
The door jamb, ceiling panels and a center divider where the other bullets were allegedly lodged were taken from the Ambassador Hotel, scene of the 1975 shooting, to the Los Angeles police department's property department and later destroyed, Bugliosi said.
"The official position of the LAPD is that only Sirhan had a gun at the assassination scene. We now have conclusive evidence that another strange individual" was there.
The man had "attended Nazi meetings in LA. He did have a gun. It was loaded. There was a minimum of two loaded guns in the pantry. That person has not testified. They never test fired his gun and the whereabouts of the gun are not known.
"Sirhan is as guilty as sin. His conviction was a proper one. But it does not exclude the possibility (of a conspiracy)," Bugliosi said.
https://oklahoman.com/article/1964607/sirhan-didnt-act-alone-author-claims
Christian Palestinian? His diary in 1968 contained this entry: “I advocate the overthrow of the current president of the fucking United States of America . . . I firmly support the Communist cause and its people.” What a swell guy. At his 2016 hearing, he said he felt remorse for any crime victim "but couldn’t take responsibility for the shooting.” He must've hired an empathy coach for the latest hearing.
Like the Manson creeps, the turd got a break when his death sentence was commuted to life. He doesn't deserve another one. Hopefully Newsom, who's sinking in the polls and could use a W, will do the right thing.
At his most recent hearing, Douglas Kennedy was brought to tears by Sirhan’s remorse:
Appearing on camera at the virtual proceeding, Sirhan said he has learned to control his anger and was committed to living peacefully, according to AP.
He said, "Sen. Kennedy was the hope of the world ... and I harmed all of them and it pains me to experience that, the knowledge for such a horrible deed, if I did in fact do that."
Douglas Kennedy, a toddler when his father was killed, told the two-person board panel that he was moved to tears by Sirhan's remorse and should be released if he's not a threat to others, AP reported.
"I'm overwhelmed just by being able to view Mr. Sirhan face to face," Douglas Kennedy said, according to AP.
"I've lived my life both in fear of him and his name in one way or another. And I am grateful today to see him as a human being worthy of compassion and love."
https://www.businessinsider.com/sirhan-sirhan-rfks-assassin-wins-parole-with-help-of-2-kennedy-sons-2021-8
As for his diary entries, I don’t know what to make of them.
Sirhan had no prior history of violent behavior and everyone who knew him said he wasn’t very political. There’s no evidence that he was a communist or followed any extremist ideologies.
Obviously, he was born in Jerusalem and has had strong opinions about the Israel-Palestine conflict but outside of his diary, there’s very little evidence that anyone viewed him as a violent person or an extremist.
A lot of people view Sirhan as some sort of Palestinian terrorist. I view him as a patsy who was psychologically manipulated…
Douglas Kennedy is almost as nutty as Sirhan. He attacked a nurse in the maternity ward when his kid was born. Six of RFK's children very eloquently argued for his parole to be denied. Sirhan is a dangerous terrorist who was sentenced to death. He should be thankful that he didn't go to the gas chamber decades ago and that the taxpayers in CA have picked up the tab to keep him alive for decades. He has used the impaired memory fantasy as a way to avoid accepting responsibility. He was arrested at the scene with the gun.
Sirhan’s gun only held 8 bullets. There were 10-13 shots fired according to the forensic evidence. The Medical examiner who conducted Kennedy’s autopsy says the headshot was fired within inches. Sirhan was never close enough to Kennedy to fire the headshot.
Paul Schrade, RFK’s friend who was shot by Sirhan, also supports parole and believes a different shooter shot Kennedy.
https://www.kget.com/news/local-news/paul-schrade-holds-no-animosity-towards-convicted-rfk-killer-sirhan-still-pressing-for-evidence-into-possible-second-shooter/
Are you going to attack the character of the guy who was both a victim and a witness to the crime?
Some people come to believe things are not true or supported by any credible evidence. Whatever Schrade has come to believe he has not presented any actual evidence.
Sirhan was apprehended at the scene with the smoking gun. How does a second shooter escape unnoticed from that crowd?
It's even sillier than a second shooter in Dealey Plaza because there were at least areas that provided seclusion there. There is an alleged audiotape in which experts have disputed the number of shots fired. It is by no means conclusive of the number of shots fired. But even if there were a second shooter that would not lessen Sirhan's guilt since he was obviously a shooter.
“Sirhan’s defense attorneys avoided the evidence of a second shooter because they just wanted to keep him from getting the Death Penalty. Arguing that he was part of a conspiracy wouldn’t have exonerated him or gotten him a lighter sentence.”
So why would anyone think it should be part of an argument in defense of his parole recommendation?
It’s not part of Sirhan’s legal defense. His attorneys are arguing that he should be released because he’s no longer a threat to society.
I’ve raised the conspiracy stuff to give context to why some friends and family members of RFK support parole for Sirhan (aside from the fact that they accept that Sirhan is remorseful for whatever role he played).
As I noted earlier, the Medical Examiner who conducted RFK’s autopsy concluded that Sirhan likely didn’t kill RFK:
Noguchi found that four shots had been fired at Kennedy from at most three inches away. Three shots appeared to be in contact with Kennedy’s back and shoulder, based on powder burns to his jacket, Noguchi said, with one shot passing through the jacket’s shoulder pad and not touching Kennedy. All three were fired sharply upward. The fourth shot was fired into the back of Kennedy’s head from three inches away, Noguchi concluded, by test-firing a similar gun to determine how much gunpowder sprayed at various distances.
“Thus I have never said,” Noguchi wrote in his autobiography, “that Sirhan Sirhan killed Robert Kennedy.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2018/06/05/did-l-a-police-and-prosecutors-bungle-the-bobby-kennedy-assassination/
What some friends and family might believe might have happened isn’t relevant. If the medical examiner had evidence that indicates his conclusion is correct, why hasn’t that evidence been presented as grounds for a new trial? There has been ample time for such an appeal.
Kamala Harris denied a new trial for Sirhan years ago before she became a Senator.
You're asking why CA officials won't reopen a case that implicates themselves in a coverup of Bobby Kennedy's assassination?
What's the innocent explanation for destroying key evidence? And why would they discuss these matters if they don't have to?
• Prosecutors withheld the autopsy report from Sirhan’s defense lawyers until six weeks into the trial, showing that Kennedy had been shot at point-blank range from behind. Five other people in the hotel pantry standing behind Kennedy, including Schrade, were hit by bullets fired from in front of them.
• Police officers and FBI agents identified apparent bullet holes in two door frames of the pantry, indicating more than eight shots were fired. But no evidence of those holes was presented at trial, and the Los Angeles police destroyed the door frames shortly after the trial.
• The lead crime-scene investigator testified at trial that bullets from the wounded victims matched a bullet from Kennedy, but presented no photos or evidence to support that. When two ballistics experts examined the bullets after the trial, they found the bullets didn’t match. Subsequent investigations couldn’t match any of the bullets to Sirhan’s gun. The crime-scene investigator was subsequently criticized even by prosecutors for sloppy work in the case, by a judge for seeming perjury in another high-profile murder, and later suspended by his own police chief.
• Los Angeles police bullied or ignored witnesses whose stories did not match the lone gunman scenario, records show, particularly people who claimed they saw Sirhan with a dark-haired woman in a white polka-dot dress. Then at trial, prosecutors brought in a blonde-haired woman with a green polka-dot dress and claimed she was the mysterious woman in question. Sirhan’s lawyers, focusing on a mental health defense, did not challenge that, either.
https://aarclibrary.org/did-l-a-police-and-prosecutors-bungle-the-bobby-kennedy-assassination-probe/
If any of the innuendos had any credible evidence to support them, an appeal to higher courts for a new trial would have been made by now. The original defense lawyers were right. An argument for a conspiracy wouldn’t have helped Sirhan.
Again, a new trial based on the conspiratorial evidence that has surfaced since Sirhan's 1969 trial was denied in 2012:
"Sirhan, the sole person convicted of killing Kennedy, is seeking a new trial or freedom from his life sentence based on “formidable evidence” asserting his innocence and “horrendous violations” of his rights, defense attorneys said in federal court papers filed last year.
Harris, who is asking a federal court in Los Angeles to dismiss Sirhan’s request, conceded in court papers filed Wednesday that his lawyers may be able to show two guns were involved in Kennedy’s assassination. Kennedy was seeking the Democratic presidential nomination when he was killed.
But even if Sirhan’s lawyers can show 13 shots were fired in the Kennedy shooting, Sirhan shouldn’t be released from prison, Harris said.
“The mere possibility that more than one firearm was discharged during the assassination does not dismantle the prosecution’s case” against Sirhan, the attorney general said in the latest court documents.
Harris said Sirhan is relying on acoustic expert Philip Van Praag’s analysis of a tape recording of the Kennedy shooting that concludes 13 shots were fired during the murder and “demonstrates the existence of a second shooter because (Sirhan) only fired eight shots.”
The attorney general argues that even if there were a second gunman involved in the Kennedy shooting, Sirhan hasn’t proven his innocence."
https://www.cnn.com/2012/02/04/justice/california-sirhan-rfk/index.html
So Kamala Harris pretty much agreed with Sirhan's original lawyers who in 1969 concluded that the conspiracy evidence wouldn't have gotten him off the hook legally.
There's no way to prove that Sirhan was under hypnosis at the time of RFK's assassination so that theory doesn't help at all. The second-shooter argument is very plausible but not enough to exonerate Sirhan.
Since the last attempt at a new trial, his lawyers have focused their efforts on Parole.
Conceded what? That:
“his lawyers MAY be able to show two guns were involved”
That’s not really conceding anything!
“ The mere POSSIBILITY that…”
No concession there either!
“ the attorney general argues that EVEN IF there…”
or there!
All your post shows is that my point is correct.
Again, a new trial based on the conspiratorial evidence that has surfaced since Sirhan's 1969 trial was denied in 2012:You misunderstand Harris' argument. She isn't conceding anything. She says that the existence of a second gunman, had there been one, would still not itself exonerate Sirhan. It's an 'even if we assume for the sake of argument....' thing. As the CNN article quoted her:
"Sirhan, the sole person convicted of killing Kennedy, is seeking a new trial or freedom from his life sentence based on “formidable evidence” asserting his innocence and “horrendous violations” of his rights, defense attorneys said in federal court papers filed last year.
Harris, who is asking a federal court in Los Angeles to dismiss Sirhan’s request, conceded in court papers filed Wednesday that his lawyers may be able to show two guns were involved in Kennedy’s assassination. Kennedy was seeking the Democratic presidential nomination when he was killed.
But even if Sirhan’s lawyers can show 13 shots were fired in the Kennedy shooting, Sirhan shouldn’t be released from prison, Harris said.
“The mere possibility that more than one firearm was discharged during the assassination does not dismantle the prosecution’s case” against Sirhan, the attorney general said in the latest court documents.
Harris said Sirhan is relying on acoustic expert Philip Van Praag’s analysis of a tape recording of the Kennedy shooting that concludes 13 shots were fired during the murder and “demonstrates the existence of a second shooter because (Sirhan) only fired eight shots.”
The attorney general argues that even if there were a second gunman involved in the Kennedy shooting, Sirhan hasn’t proven his innocence."
https://www.cnn.com/2012/02/04/justice/california-sirhan-rfk/index.html
So Kamala Harris pretty much agreed with Sirhan's original lawyers who in 1969 concluded that the conspiracy evidence wouldn't have gotten him off the hook legally.
There's no way to prove that Sirhan was under hypnosis at the time of RFK's assassination so that theory doesn't help at all. The second-shooter argument is very plausible but not enough to exonerate Sirhan.
Since the last attempt at a new trial, his lawyers have focused their efforts on Parole.
She conceded that there “may” have been a conspiracy. That’s kind of a big deal.
Not even Harris is as dismissive of the second shooter evidence as you and Richard are. Her argument was that there’s no point in having a new trial because Sirhan would still be guilty even if there was a conspiracy.
You misunderstand Harris' argument. She isn't conceding anything. She says that the existence of a second gunman, had there been one, would still not itself exonerate Sirhan. It's an 'even if we assume for the sake of argument....' thing. As the CNN article quoted her:
"Harris said that even if it could be proven 'that a second gunman successfully shot Senator Kennedy, (Sirhan) would still be guilty of the charged crimes.'"
Kamala Harris denied a new trial for Sirhan years ago before she became a Senator.
You're asking why CA officials won't reopen a case that implicates themselves in a coverup of Bobby Kennedy's assassination?
What's the innocent explanation for destroying key evidence? And why would they discuss these matters if they don't have to?
• Prosecutors withheld the autopsy report from Sirhan’s defense lawyers until six weeks into the trial, showing that Kennedy had been shot at point-blank range from behind. Five other people in the hotel pantry standing behind Kennedy, including Schrade, were hit by bullets fired from in front of them.
• Police officers and FBI agents identified apparent bullet holes in two door frames of the pantry, indicating more than eight shots were fired. But no evidence of those holes was presented at trial, and the Los Angeles police destroyed the door frames shortly after the trial.
• The lead crime-scene investigator testified at trial that bullets from the wounded victims matched a bullet from Kennedy, but presented no photos or evidence to support that. When two ballistics experts examined the bullets after the trial, they found the bullets didn’t match. Subsequent investigations couldn’t match any of the bullets to Sirhan’s gun. The crime-scene investigator was subsequently criticized even by prosecutors for sloppy work in the case, by a judge for seeming perjury in another high-profile murder, and later suspended by his own police chief.
• Los Angeles police bullied or ignored witnesses whose stories did not match the lone gunman scenario, records show, particularly people who claimed they saw Sirhan with a dark-haired woman in a white polka-dot dress. Then at trial, prosecutors brought in a blonde-haired woman with a green polka-dot dress and claimed she was the mysterious woman in question. Sirhan’s lawyers, focusing on a mental health defense, did not challenge that, either.
https://aarclibrary.org/did-l-a-police-and-prosecutors-bungle-the-bobby-kennedy-assassination-probe/
The uber liberals running California today are protecting the conservative LAPD from five decades ago in the cover up of the murder of a liberal icon? And you think someone got their gun within one inch of RFK's head amidst a large crowd of people and escaped unnoticed? None of that adds up.
Not sure what role partisan politics plays in this case.
The issue for LA officials is that the key person on the LAPD who was in charge of the evidence, DeWayne Wolfer, was involved in lots of cases. If it were confirmed that Wolfer lied or tampered with evidence, it would affect dozens of cases. That’s the sort of thing that discourages the LA officials from coming clean about his handling of the evidence even though it’s widely acknowledged today that Wolfer was corrupt. A judge stopped short of accusing Wolfer of perjury.
The corruption of the LAPD, especially the Ramparts precinct that handled the RFK investigation, has been well documented since the 1990s.
Most witnesses were focused on Sirhan who was in front of Kennedy or they were taking cover.
There ARE a few witnesses who saw the security guard who was behind Kennedy with a gun drawn (all shots that hit Kennedy came from behind). At least one witness said he saw the security guard fire the gun.
At Sirhan’s trial, one witness said he saw a gunman and could identify him if he saw him again but didn’t identify Sirhan as the gunman.
So yes, some witnesses DID see other potential shooters but they were either ignored or dismissed as wrong about their recollection.
Hi Jon, I enjoy reading your posts, and I regard you as a very level headed researcher.
I do believe that Sirhan was set up.....and he did not shoot RFK. However the empty gun in his hand in the close proximity to the victim is a very difficult piece of evidence to cast aside. If the conspirators had hypnotized or drugged Sirhan and set him up as the patsy they would have made certain that there would have been another .22 caliber weapon disguised as some innocuous item , like a camera, to be certain that the deed would be done. ...but it would appear that sirhan was holding the murder weapon.
I agree that Sirhan was caught with a hot gun in his hand. That’s why I admit that it’s difficult if not impossible to exonerate him. If there was a conspiracy, it can’t be argued that he wasn’t involved.
The problem since the 1970s has been that none of the bullets from the victims or crime scene have been positively identified to have come from his gun.
So not only was there evidence that more than 8 shots were fired, the experts who examined the ballistic evidence could never match Sirhan’s gun to the bullets:
The lead crime-scene investigator testified at trial that bullets from the wounded victims matched a bullet from Kennedy, but presented no photos or evidence to support that. When two ballistics experts examined the bullets after the trial, they found the bullets didn’t match. Subsequent investigations couldn’t match any of the bullets to Sirhan’s gun. The crime-scene investigator was subsequently criticized even by prosecutors for sloppy work in the case, by a judge for seeming perjury in another high-profile murder, and later suspended by his own police chief.
….
Wolfer testified that a bullet removed from Kennedy’s neck and a bullet removed from a wounded victim had come from Sirhan’s gun. But he did not submit any photos comparing the two bullets or keep any notes documenting his comparison, and the defense accepted his testimony without challenge. In 1970, when ballistics expert William Harper examined the bullets with a newly invented comparison camera, he found the bullets had not been fired from the same gun.
Soon two other ballistics experts also said the two bullets came from different guns. In 1975, a commission of seven experts was empaneled to review the ballistics, including refiring Sirhan’s gun. But Sirhan’s gun had deteriorated, and it couldn’t be determined whether it had fired either the Kennedy bullet or the wounded victim’s bullet. Later, it was determined that the bullet police submitted for the 1975 test as the Kennedy bullet was from another victim, not Kennedy.
If police had followed a trail of bullets from behind Kennedy’s right side, the person who was standing closest to him was an armed private-security guard, Thane Eugene Cesar. Cesar said he fell down as the shooting began, then pulled his .38-caliber gun but didn’t fire because Sirhan had already been captured. A news assistant for a local TV station, Don Schulman, gave a radio interview moments after the shooting and described Cesar firing back at Sirhan.
https://aarclibrary.org/did-l-a-police-and-prosecutors-bungle-the-bobby-kennedy-assassination-probe/
The RFK assassination hasn’t gotten as much attention as the JFK assassination but the evidence of conspiracy in RFK’s case seems overwhelming.
If Cesar had only the .38 caliber revolver then he couldn't possibly have shot RFK..... Because not only is the caliber wrong ( the wounds were created by a .22) but a .38 would have killed RFK instantly and a ,38 would have caused massive damage to his head.
Incidentally the .22 caliber cartridge is a favored assassination weapon.... Trained killers are taught to fire two quick shots into the victim's head from from behind an ear at close range....which is exactly how RFK was murdered... IOW..... The hit was not the work of someone like Siran, but the work of a professional killer.
Not sure what role partisan politics plays in this case.
The issue for LA officials is that the key person on the LAPD who was in charge of the evidence, DeWayne Wolfer, was involved in lots of cases. If it were confirmed that Wolfer lied or tampered with evidence, it would affect dozens of cases. That’s the sort of thing that discourages the LA officials from coming clean about his handling of the evidence even though it’s widely acknowledged today that Wolfer was corrupt. A judge stopped short of accusing Wolfer of perjury.
The corruption of the LAPD, especially the Ramparts precinct that handled the RFK investigation, has been well documented since the 1990s.
Most witnesses were focused on Sirhan who was in front of Kennedy or they were taking cover.
There ARE a few witnesses who saw the security guard who was behind Kennedy with a gun drawn (all shots that hit Kennedy came from behind). At least one witness said he saw the security guard fire the gun.
At Sirhan’s trial, one witness said he saw a gunman and could identify him if he saw him again but didn’t identify Sirhan as the gunman.
So yes, some witnesses DID see other potential shooters but they were either ignored or dismissed as wrong about their recollection.
You suggested that the shot to RFK's head was fired from one inch away.
Do you think someone could get within one inch of RFK and get away in that crowd? Why would everyone focus on Sirhan if someone else with a gun was only one inch from RFK? It makes no sense.
And even if a security guard had mistakenly shot RFK in an attempt to defend him from Sirhan that makes no difference as to Sirhan's culpability.
The point is, she didn’t dismiss the new evidence or argue that “the case is solved.”You've just made my point for me. Stop that! The State of California didn't try to rebut or dismiss the "new evidence" (was there anything really new, other than the Pruszynski tape anyway?) because the State had no need to.
Sirhan’s new trial was denied due to it being considered a waste of time due to the fact that a conspiracy finding wouldn’t exonerate him. It wasn’t rejected due to a lack of legitimacy of the evidence of a second shooter.
The uber liberals running California today are protecting the conservative LAPD from five decades ago in the cover up of the murder of a liberal icon? And you think someone got their gun within one inch of RFK's head amidst a large crowd of people and escaped unnoticed? None of that adds up.
Thane Eugene Cesar died today in the Philippines. Compelling evidence suggests that Cesar murdered my father. On June 5, 1968, Cesar, an employee in a classified section of Lockheed’s Burbank facility, was moonlighting as a security guard at the Ambassador Hotel. He had landed the job about one week earlier. Cesar waited in the pantry as my father spoke in the ballroom, then grabbed my father by the elbow and guided him toward Sirhan.
With 77 people in the pantry, every eyewitness said Sirhan was always in front on my father at a 3-6 feet distance. Sirhan fired two shots toward my father before he was tackled. From under the dog pile, Sirhan emptied his 8 chamber revolver firing 6 more shots in the opposite direction 5 of them striking bystander and one going wild .
By his own account, Cesar was directly behind my dad holding his right elbow with his own gun drawn when my dad fell backwards on top of him. Cesar repeatedly changed his story about exactly when he drew his weapon.
According to the Coroner, Dr. Thomas Noguchi, all 4 shots that struck my father were ‘contact’ shots fired from behind my dad with the barrel touching or nearly touching his body. Cesar sold his .22 to a co-worker weeks after the assassination warning him that it had been used in a crime. Cesar lied to police claiming that he’d disposed of the gun months before the assassination. Cesar was a bigot who hated the Kennedys for their advocacy of Civil Rights for blacks.
I had plans to meet Thane Eugene Cesar in the Philippines last June until he demanded a payment of $25,000 through his agent Dan Moldea. Ironically, Moldea penned a meticulous and compelling indictment of Cesar in a 1995 book and then suddenly exculpated him by fiat in a bizarre and nonsensical final chapter. Police have never seriously investigated Cesar’s role in my father’s killing.
It’s been alleged that Cesar owned an H&R .22 revolver and sold it later to Jim Yoder, a friend of his in Arkansas. He allegedly told police he sold the .22 before the murder when he actually sold it after the murder. Moldea’s book says that Charach, the documentarian, learned that Cesar sold his .22 revolver to Yoder three months after the assassination, and that Yoder provided a receipt. The book adds that Yoder allegedly told Charach the gun was stolen in a burglary.
“It’s clear that Cesar’s position behind and to the right of Kennedy matched the shooting position described in the autopsy,” the book reports. He had advance notice Kennedy was coming through and was “possibly seen talking to Sirhan.” He “has repeatedly changed his story on when he drew his gun, and his movements after the shooting…Questions remain as to who pulled his tie off.”
Among anolamlies in the case, the Chronicle cited the fact that Noguchi “reported that the fatal shot was fired less than one inch from Kennedy’s head behind his right ear.” Four shots came from the rear but Sirhan fired a .22 “from a few feet in front of Kennedy.” The revolver held eight rounds, but “a radio reporter’s tape recording of the shooting has sounds of what one audio expert describes as 13 shots” and “double shots,” reported The Chronicle, summing up the main concerns.
-snip-
RFK, Jr. suspected security guard Thane Eugene Cesar's involvement.
https://aarclibrary.org/thane-eugene-cesar-rfk-jr-calls-him-possible-assassin/
Dan Moldea's account of Cesar's cooperation, including consenting to a lie detector test, and the results.:
(Moldea mentions he was discouraged from hypnosis because of reliability vs risk and went with polygraph.)
https://www.moldea.com/Cesar-polygraph.pdf
Dan Moldea on the polygraph test he arranged for Thane Eugene Cesar. From his book, The Killing of Robert F. Kennedy: An Investigation of Motive Means, ...
-snip-
https://twitter.com/DanMoldea/status/1430179825403183115
10:46 AM · Aug 24, 2021
Thane Eugene Cesar, an innocent man, falsely accused. . . . With the confessed and convicted Sirhan Sirhan’s parole hearing this Friday, Cesar will be defamed by a desperate cadre of screwballs, hoping to cast Sirhan as a misunderstood visionary who should be released from prison
I didn't suggest that, the medical examiner who conducted RFK's autopsy did. He has kept the same story for 50+ years even though it conflicts with the conclusion that Sirhan alone killed RFK.
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/state-by-state/california-population-change-between-census-decade.html
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51421890972_05a6dcf8d7_b.jpg)
Who should "run" California "today"?
...the extremists supporting this misogynist "mess" because he reassures them their white supremacist sympathies are just fine with him?
Column: Larry Elder is the Black face of white supremacy ...
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-20/recall-candidate-larry-elder-is-a-threat-to-black-californians (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:a5kIrIiPcsQJ:https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-20/recall-candidate-larry-elder-is-a-threat-to-black-californians+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
Column: "Larry Elder is the Black face of white supremacy. You've been warned Conservative radio talk show host Larry Elder speaks to supporters during a campaign stop in Norwalk."
You cited the fact that the ME indicated that a shot was fired within an inch of RFK's head to support the claim that it could not have been Sirhan who was the shooter. So do you believe someone else get within an inch of RFK and escaped in that crowd or not?
The uber liberals running California today are protecting the conservative LAPD from five decades ago in the cover up of the murder of a liberal icon? And you think someone got their gun within one inch of RFK's head amidst a large crowd of people and escaped unnoticed? None of that adds up.
I can't decipher exactly what point you are trying to make here. Is it that the black guy running for governor is a white supremacist and that the rich, elitist white guy is not? If so, that is truly rabbit hole doubleplusgood reasoning. LOL. The lengths that liberals will go to vilify any minority or female who dares to stray from the cause is enlightening on their hypocrisy.
Of course you can't. You're a reactionary. You pooped out some right wing talking points.
There are no "uber liberals running California today". The political leadership attempts to be responsive to a population that is 60 percent other than voters consumed by white anxiety. The current recall is a libertarian, white anxiety fueled, hissy fit.
Your post I replied to was, "Make California White Again"!
I got news for you. California has never been better. Neither has the U.S.
Larry Elder and any other right wing political influence (AKA American Taliban) is the last thing California or anything related to governance anywhere, needs.
"Texas "heartbeat bill" becomes law, banning abortions as ...
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/05/18/texas-heartbeat-bill-abortions-law/
It includes cases where the woman was impregnated as a result of rape or incest. There is an exception for medical emergencies. ... Texas Right to Life called the bill's signing a "landmark ..."
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/24/1009839021/uncovering-who-is-driving-the-fight-against-critical-race-theory-in-schools
Uncovering Who Is Driving The Fight Against Critical Race Theory In Schools
June 24, 2021
"...KINGKADE: .".they are. I've talked to a lot of parents on the side of opposing critical race theory, and many of them have told me they don't believe that systemic racism exists. I've had conversations with parents who say they don't think that they have any sort of white privilege, though they are white..., - there's a fundamental disagreement in how they see the world."..."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/former-prosecutor-indicted-ahmaud-arberys-case/
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51424095986_98e69bc370_c.jpg)
Short but sweet video that explains the new audio evidence in the RFK assassination caseThanks for posting the above. Jon. Seems to confirm that RFK was shot by someone other then Sirhan.
Even if we discount the audio evidence, there's other evidence proving that too many shots were fired for all to have come from Sirhan's gun:
Vincent Bugliosi, prosecutor in the Charles Manson murder trials and author of the Manson cult expose, "Helter Skelter," told an audience at the University of Tulsa there is "conclusive evidence" to indicate that more than one gunman was involved in the assassination of Robert Kennedy.
Following up on the tip of a "conspiracy" buff, Bugliosi tracked down the identities of two police officers who, in an Associated Press photograph taken shortly after the shooting, were observing a bullet hole in a door jamb.
"If that was a bullet hole, there would have to have been a ninth bullet. Sirhan (the convicted assassin) fired only eight rounds," Bugliosi said.
Bugliosi got a signed statement from one of the police officers in the photo saying that it was indeed a bullet hole, and since that time he has secured additional statements that "totaled up to 12 bullets."
The door jamb, ceiling panels and a center divider where the other bullets were allegedly lodged were taken from the Ambassador Hotel, scene of the 1975 shooting, to the Los Angeles police department's property department and later destroyed, Bugliosi said.
https://www.oklahoman.com/article/1964607/sirhan-didnt-act-alone-author-claims
John W. Hinckley Jr.'s freedom is unprecedented.https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/09/28/hinckley-presidential-assassins-executions/
The man who shot President Ronald Reagan and three others in a 1981 assassination attempt will be granted an unconditional release by a judge, likely making him the first person to ever shoot a president and live to see freedom again.
Short but sweet video that explains the new audio evidence in the RFK assassination case
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/Electronic_Sound_%28George_Harrison_album_-_cover_art%29.jpg) (http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He) Electronic Sound George Harrison, Zapple 1969 |
I find it amazing that the JFK LNs on this forum are RFK LNs, 2 different cases yet the nutters on here sing from the same hymn sheet, must pay good money down at the disinformation centre :D :D :D. RFK had powder burns from a muzzle an inch or 2 away SS wasn't within 5 feet off him. Thumb1:
RFK LN’ers believe Sirhan alone fired 10-12 shots from an 8 bullet revolver :D
Sirhan confessed at trial he killed RFK. Not good enough for you.
Sirhan accepts that he did it because everyone, including his lawyers, told him that he did it. However, he has maintained for 50+ years that he has no memory of actually pulling the trigger.
The medical examiner who did RFK's autopsy, Thomas Noguchi, has for 50+ years refused to say that Sirhan fired the shot that killed Kennedy.
Sirhan is likely lying about that because it doesn't sound great to acknowledge that he had complete responsibility for his actions.
So his story is that he can't remember. Very convenient. Even if there was another shooter, and there is no credible evidence of such, Sirhan was still an assassin.
Sirhan confessed at trial he killed RFK. Not good enough for you.
Likely that he's lying based on what specifically?
What has he gained from lying about it for decades?
It didn't prevent him from getting the Death Penalty for his crime. It so far hasn't gotten him out of prison.
The medical examiner refused to conclude that Sirhan fired the shot that killed RFK. There is strong evidence that more than 8 shots were fired (Sirhan couldn't have fired more than 8 ).
No one is arguing that Sirhan is innocent. He was there with a gun in his hand as you noted. But the physical evidence suggests that he wasn't the only one shooting in the kitchen that night.
Sirhan is in prison. He needs to appear to be sympathetic to ever get out. He is not going to tell the truth and say that he is an anti-Semitic terrorist who targeted RFK for assassination due to his support of Israel.
He is trying to get out. Not add time to his sentence. This is a trick as old as the hills. Prisoners claim to get religion, can't remember what happened, were under the influence of drugs or alcohol. It's a way to deflect responsibility for the underlying criminal act.
No. He was told to plead guilty by his attorney.
Despite the fact that Sirhan admitted his guilt in a recorded confession while in police custody on June 9, a lengthy, publicized trial followed in The People of the State of California v. Sirhan Sirhan. The judge did not accept his confession and denied his request to withdraw his plea of "not guilty" in order to plead "guilty".[22]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirhan_Sirhan#Prosecution
On February 10, 1969, Sirhan's lawyers made a motion in chambers to enter a plea of guilty to first-degree murder in exchange for life imprisonment rather than the death penalty. Sirhan told Judge Herbert V. Walker that he wanted to withdraw his original plea of not guilty in order to plead guilty as charged on all counts. He also asked that his counsel "dissociate themselves from this case completely." The judge asked him what he wanted to do about sentencing, and Sirhan replied, "I will ask to be executed."[22] Walker denied the motion and said, "This court will not accept the plea." He also denied Sirhan's request for his counsel to withdraw; his counsel entered another motion to withdraw from the case of their own volition, but Walker denied that as well.[22] Walker subsequently ordered that the record be sealed pertaining to the motion.[23]
Sirhan is in prison. He needs to appear to be sympathetic to ever get out. He is not going to tell the truth and say that he is an anti-Semitic terrorist who targeted RFK for assassination due to his support of Israel. He is trying to get out. Not add time to his sentence. This is a trick as old as the hills. Prisoners claim to get religion, can't remember what happened, were under the influence of drugs or alcohol. It's a way to deflect responsibility for the underlying criminal act.
At least Newsom did one thing right:
"California Gov. Gavin Newsom denied parole Thursday for Sen. Robert F. Kennedy's assassin, Sirhan Sirhan."
At least Newsom did one thing right:Is there link to that?
"California Gov. Gavin Newsom denied parole Thursday for Sen. Robert F. Kennedy's assassin, Sirhan Sirhan."
This is simple. There is no credible evidence of a conspiracy in the JFK and RFK assassinations. Thus, no conspiracy. It's the evidence that governs the conclusion.That is simple huh? Maybe to a Bugliosist. Regarding the JFK case...In Dallas, the conclusion cart came before the horse. Then the FBI put two horses behind the cart to push it along. Then the Commission put another horse in there to push the other two horses...to add to their struggle, the HSCA added an additional horse to the side of the cart and so on ::)
That is simple huh? Maybe to a Bugliosist. Regarding the JFK case...In Dallas, the conclusion cart came before the horse. Then the FBI put two horses behind the cart to push it along. Then the Commission put another horse in there to push the other two horses...to add to their struggle, the HSCA added an additional horse to the side of the cart and so on ::)
In the RFK case I am also skeptical of the L. A. police who didn't protect him.
FWIW, Vincent Bugliosi, former LA Prosecutor, said he saw evidence of conspiracy in RFK's assassination.(https://ruadventures.com/forum/Smileys/animated/tiphat.gif)
https://www.oklahoman.com/article/1964607/sirhan-didnt-act-alone-author-claims