JFK Assassination Forum

JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: John Mytton on July 13, 2021, 09:32:46 AM

Title: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 55%
Post by: John Mytton on July 13, 2021, 09:32:46 AM
EDIT with the recent influx of what seems to be mainly overseas reviews from apparently less JFKA educated observers, the score is on the rise, Good Luck Jimmy boy.

Poor old DiEugenio, from the established more reliable critics his latest film is receiving a pounding. Endless paranoid speculation based on minor discrepancies that goes nowhere is just tedious, people want answers (as Otto is learning on another thread), either name some names or shut the heck up.
When the time comes when CT's can definitively say what happened and why, then you may capture the publics attention but otherwise you're all just boring the pants off everyone.

2 stars out of 5
The Times UK

But if a pattern emerges, it's that the arguments in Stone's film almost always start by assuming the most paranoid possible interpretation of events, then work their way backward to the evidence.
..."Conspiracy theories are now conspiracy facts," Stone, who appears in the movie, says at one point. Whatever that means.
Rogerbert.com

Stone says that the president was killed in a “crossfire.” But how could there have been a crossfire if Oswald wasn’t even in the book depository? Was there another shooter in the book depository using Oswald’s rifle? Was there a shooter across the street? The film barely even explains its theory. Talk about skimping on details! In “JFK Revisited,” Oliver Stone leads us through the looking glass, all right, but the real question is whether he’s found the truth or an even more hypnotically spectacular lie.
Variety

‘JFK Revisited’ Film Review: Oliver Stone Keeps Digging, But He Still Doesn’t Have the Answers
Of course, Oswald can’t have acted alone. At least, that’s what I’ve always thought. But now, I’m not so sure, which surely can’t have been the intention of the documentary.
Yahoo Entertainment

...sees the veteran director, in a voice of utmost sententiousness, present reams of turgid documentary evidence to support his contention that JFK was… killed by… it’s unclear exactly, but anyway, the reason for the assassination is… never really given to us. But there was a big conspiracy! Look at this graph!
The Daily Beast

but Stone’s refusal to draw from a single consenting voice or make room for any alternative readings makes the film much more easy to shrug-off as an entertainingly crackpot diversion.
Little White Lies

In the following JFK Revisited trailer they show Specter lining up the wounds on Kennedy and Connally and proving the single bullet fact. Thanks!


JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 20% OUCH!
Post by: Jerry Organ on July 13, 2021, 02:43:50 PM
Well, Richard will point out that those reviews from liberal media are "fake news"!  :D  (Just "The Times" review is accurate).

The Rotten Tomatoes Rating will go up astronomically as the ratings from reviewers less familiar with the JFK case are added. "Rotten Tomatoes" sounds like it would be critical all the time, but the opposite is true.

"15 Terrible Movies With High Rotten Tomatoes Scores" ( Link (https://screenrant.com/terrible-movies-with-high-rotten-tomatoes-scores/) ) "Sharknado" has 83% rating. The site seems to be a promotional vehicle since Comcast Universal bought it in 2016.
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 20% OUCH!
Post by: Jerry Organ on July 14, 2021, 12:47:32 AM
"JFK Revisited" is now at 43% on the "Tomatometer". You can expect some of the reviewers to give Stone kudos just on technical skill, editing and score, rather than the legitimacy of his subject matter. Excerpts from the Variety review:

    "The JFK assassination launched the Age of Conspiracy, and many
     conspiracies followed — Paul is Dead, the fake moon landing, the
     cover-up of alien abductions, the murder of Princess Diana, 9/11
     as inside job. That a good portion of the American public now thinks
     Joe Biden stole the election, and that QAnon is something other
     then organized media psychosis, shows you just how far through
     the looking glass we’ve gone."

Here's some of the conspiracy claims Stone presents, all pretty-much debunked on the Forum:

    "when you’re staring at a declassified page from the Warren Commission
     Report in which Gerald Ford, with a few penciled-in words, literally shifts
     by six inches the place where the first bullet entered JFK. At moments
     like that, you feel the frisson of the junkie-hit injections that conspiracy
     theory is built upon."

    "Stone directs our attention to contradictory versions of where the rifle
     rifle strap was supposedly attached (on the side or the back?)"

    "The movie fills this in by going into the records to explore the testimony
     of Vickie Adams, who knew Oswald from the book depository."

(The Variety reviewer notes: "But might not Oswald have heard them and hung back for 10 seconds? Why does this idea — that the two women never saw Oswald — prove anything?")

    "[Whoopi] Goldberg, in the narration, says of Oswald, 'The underlying
     mystery remains: Why would anyone use a rifle in an assassination
     knowing there was a paper trail that would lead right back to them?'
     Is that so hard to fathom? ,,, Why would Oswald have left a paper trail?
     Because he never expected to be caught."

    "Well, when I look at the Zapruder film, what my eyes see, at that horrific
     moment, is that the back of JFK’s head is intact. There is no occipital
     wound. The bullet tore through the side of his head."

What a difference not having Joe Pesci in a wig. :D
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 43% MEH!
Post by: Jerry Organ on July 14, 2021, 03:09:44 PM
The "Caiman Movie Magazine" of Madrid nudged the Tomatometer to 50%. Google Translate ...

    "It is an attempt to revisit the case, in order to be a little more
     precise than the final hypothesis that the fiction wove"
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "the CIA had information about the existence of three previous
     and hypothetical attempts to attack President Kennedy."
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "On the day of his assassination, when Lyndon Johnson came
     to power, he changed some documents so that the progressive
     withdrawal from Vietnam was not possible."

Doesn't seem to praise Stone for technical skill at all; more is made of the conspiracy "facts". The reviewer just isn't that knowledgeable about the conspiracy claims and the counter evidence. I think we've gone through half of the movie reviewers who are on to the CTs. I figure 90% of the reviews from here on will be from reviewers who assume Stone is trustworthy and has some "insider" grasp of the JFK research.

The documentary will easily attain 80% or more. Stone (who says he got picked on supposedly for no good reason) is like Oswald, innocently going about his business when something unanticipated happens, like someone in an elevator handing Stone a copy of "On the Trail of the Assassins". And poor Oswald; in the vicinity of the first Dallas policeman slaying in years and his jacket blows off but he makes it to the theater only to have the police show up.

Richard shrewdly highlighted this with his comparing of Oswald to "Mr. Magoo".
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 43% MEH!
Post by: Jerry Organ on July 14, 2021, 07:34:48 PM
(https://d1nslcd7m2225b.cloudfront.net/Pictures/80x80//P/Pictures/web/o/a/n/finn-halligan-headshot.jpg)

The London-based "Screen International" Chief Critic Fionnuala Halligan, dear soul, is full-out delusional.

    "You don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to realise that the Warren
     Commission’s report on the cold-blooded murder of this popular head
     of state was a whitewash"
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "this isn’t a dispatch from the tin hat brigade but a holding-to-acount
     for the brutal murder of a man who stood for change"
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
     "his may be the last chance for audiences to appreciate the scale
     of the deception involved"
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "This documentary does not sink down the what-might-have-been
     trap, but holds itself to the facts throughout."
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "Even though so many questions can’t be fully answered, credible
     scenarios swim into view"

Wow. And she thinks she's a step above the tin hat brigade. What? She rejects Greer shot Kennedy?


This is interesting ...

    "[Stone will] have to overcome his dilution of his own reputation
     underlined by the currently-airing 10-part series on Kazakh dictator
     Nursultan Nazarbayev in order to convince audiences to tune in"
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 43% MEH!
Post by: Jerry Organ on July 14, 2021, 08:38:53 PM
The Mexico-based "Butaca Ancha" (Wide Armchair) movie review blog site just prodded "JFK Revisited" to 56% and thus through the looking glass. Google Translate ...

    "The contextual framework that Stone supports is of utmost importance
     because that horizon allows us to observe the anti-colonialist stance that
     sought to regulate relations with the Soviet Union, with Cuba and with
     Vietnam.; the 3 great scenarios for Manifest Destiny and economic
     fortune in military technology to increase"
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "Stone's work does not seek to place certainties, more importantly, it tries
     to place questions at the center of the discussion, which with the right fire,
     can make immaculate statues explode in time."

Still not half as nutty as Trump Republicans. :D
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 43% MEH!
Post by: John Mytton on July 15, 2021, 03:29:43 AM
The Mexico-based "Butaca Ancha" (Wide Armchair) movie review blog site just prodded "JFK Revisited" to 56% and thus through the looking glass. Google Translate ...

    "The contextual framework that Stone supports is of utmost importance
     because that horizon allows us to observe the anti-colonialist stance that
     sought to regulate relations with the Soviet Union, with Cuba and with
     Vietnam.; the 3 great scenarios for Manifest Destiny and economic
     fortune in military technology to increase"
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "Stone's work does not seek to place certainties, more importantly, it tries
     to place questions at the center of the discussion, which with the right fire,
     can make immaculate statues explode in time."

Still not half as nutty as Trump Republicans. :D

Thanks Jerry, I've been updating the score to reflect the latest percentages. It's disappointing to see some of the reactions that you posted because every pancake however thin always has two sides and without a fair response, these "truth seekers" can almost get away with anything.
Just 1 example is they are making a big deal out of Ford correcting the language of a rough copy but without someone pointing out that all Ford did was more closely match what was actually written in the Autopsy report, then what does the "truth seekers" deception actually prove?

(https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/Ford_files/image001.gif)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TwgFm3yj/Base-of-the-neck.jpg)
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix-09.pdf

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 43% MEH!
Post by: Jerry Organ on July 15, 2021, 05:07:48 AM
Thanks Jerry, I've been updating the score to reflect the latest percentages. It's disappointing to see some of the reactions that you posted because every pancake however thin always has two sides and without a fair response, these "truth seekers" can almost get away with anything.
Just 1 example is they are making a big deal out of Ford correcting the language of a rough copy but without someone pointing out that all Ford did was more closely match what was actually written in the Autopsy report, then what does the "truth seekers" deception actually prove?

JohnM

On page 60 of the Warren Report (GPO edition), it states:
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "The autopsy also disclosed a wound near the base of the back
     President Kennedy's neck slightly to the right of the spine."

Which, as you show, matches the description for the bullet's level in the Autopsy Report. Also, 3D analysis of the autopsy photograph shows the bullet hole was above the scapula (like the autopsy report said: "entered the right superior posterior thorax above the scapula") or at the base of the back of the neck (clinically, the neck's posterior region starts at the C7/T1 level).

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1OF_6y4jMLGjZ-LwkX_rq6qW4LYMqN0V4)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
(This particular 3D model shows the bullet striking the C7 transverse process, but there's enough variation in human anatomy to have the bullet just miss the process.)

Maybe Stone fell for the critic's contention that the President's jacket wasn't raised in a bunch and that the level of the bullet hole that the jacket showed as it rested on a coat hanger eclipsed the autopsy report and photos.

(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=16Ysu8jhHcGKAs7dbsx7v06pRuFjOg7bl)

Errol Morris (of "The Thin Blue Line" fame) wrote the 2012 book "A Wilderness of Error: The Trials of Jeffrey MacDonald" that claimed MacDonald was innocent. But in the 2020 documentary TV series of the same name (directed by Marc Smerling, of "The Jinx" fame), Morris was shown enough evidence to make him think MacDonald might be guilty.

We see nothing as open-minded as that from Oliver Stone.
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Joe Elliott on July 15, 2021, 05:35:55 AM

The London-based "Screen International" Chief Critic Fionnuala Halligan, dear soul, is full-out delusional.

    "You don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to realise that the Warren
     Commission’s report on the cold-blooded murder of this popular head
     of state was a whitewash"

Yes, you do have to be a conspiracy theorist. If you think the Warren Commission’s report was a whitewash then you are a conspiracy theorist. If you are so far out that you don’t realize that you are a conspiracy theorist than you are not just a conspiracy theorist, you are a wacky conspiracy theorist.

Maybe someone who believes the Warren Commission was all a whitewash is right. Maybe someday, a Large-Secret-Enduring conspiracy theory will prove to be right. But while that person may be right, they are also a conspiracy theorist.
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: John Mytton on July 15, 2021, 08:24:10 AM
If you think the Warren Commission’s report was a whitewash then you are a conspiracy theorist.

The report, without supporting evidence, pins two murders on a guy.

The WC report was a corroborative effort, that's conspiracy.

Elementary, my dear Watson.

"without supporting evidence" LOL

(https://i.postimg.cc/1XGknzLL/complete-26-volume-set-warren-1-0435337a30caa5f03ad167f549e8260c.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Jerry Organ on July 16, 2021, 03:49:03 AM
LA-based "Deadline Hollywood" entertainment trade blog's Todd McCarthy nudged the Tomatometer to 60%. Yet another deluded reviewer praising Stone's "conspiracy facts".

    "No matter how skeptical one might choose to be about conspiracy
     theories, there is simply too much evidence to ignore, too many
     suspicious details that undermine the lone gunman theory, too
     many credible reasons to believe that bigger players and master-
     minds than Lee Harvey Oswald were behind the act"
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "The composition and ultimate secrecy of so much of what the Warren
     Commission did in its presumed full assessment of the crime continues
     to cast a shadow over its work, even if Stone’s persistent digging did
     liberate a good deal of evidence and testimony."
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "But even if informed citizens think they know most of what they’ll ever
     know about the assassination, Stone has spent a great deal more time
     than the rest of us have examining and re-examining the question of
     who was behind the assassination and its endless aftermath."

The credit for "a good deal of evidence and testimony" would be better directed to the Warren Commission's 26 volumes of Hearings and Exhibits, and the HSCA's 12 volumes. What massive "secrecy" was the Warren Commission engaged in? What did Oliver Stone personally "dig into" when he's been relying on the works of Garrison, Marrs and DiEugenio, and evidently avoiding books like "Case Closed" and "Reclaiming History". Stone also seems to have purposely ignored, for example, this Forum, the McAdams site and the Dale K. Myers blog, all of which appear in Google Searches for conspiracy claims.

I suppose it's to be expected some of these film-buff types would think one of their own is gifted with profound knowledge. The truth is there is an increase of high-standard true-crime documentaries being made these days, but I can't think of one that uses dubious crackpot devices like Gerald Ford "moving" a wound site.
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Jerry Freeman on July 16, 2021, 04:56:17 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/1XGknzLL/complete-26-volume-set-warren-1-0435337a30caa5f03ad167f549e8260c.jpg)

For about $10....you can get an easily storable CD containing all 26 volumes. They actually fail to support the ultimate determination of the Report.

 I have linked this before and the statement was ignored-----
Quote
Four of the seven members of the commission, Boggs, Cooper, McCloy, and Russell, had serious doubts regarding the conclusions of the commission that the President and Governor Connally were both wounded by the "magic bullet" and regarding the view that Oswald had acted alone.[30][31]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Commission#Skepticism

The majority of the very Commission itself "had serious doubts" regarding their own conclusions!! So, would that not have made [by definition established here on this forum by the anti-skeptics] these gentlemen 'conspiracy theorists'?
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Jack Nessan on July 16, 2021, 03:18:19 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/1XGknzLL/complete-26-volume-set-warren-1-0435337a30caa5f03ad167f549e8260c.jpg)

For about $10....you can get an easily storable CD containing all 26 volumes. They actually fail to support the ultimate determination of the Report.

 I have linked this before and the statement was ignored-----https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Commission#Skepticism

The majority of the very Commission itself "had serious doubts" regarding their own conclusions!! So, would that not have made [by definition established here on this forum by the anti-skeptics] these gentlemen 'conspiracy theorists'?

McCloy should not be in this group. There is no place for the bullet exiting JFK's throat to go but into JBC's back. McCloy also states this very point.

Mr. McCLOY - Warren Commission Member to the HSCA about SBT

Twice in my life, and I am sure a number of people in this room may have had a somewhat similar experience, I stood right alongside of a man as he was shot. The first man--it was in World War I in France--was killed. The second man recovered from his wound. The circumstances of the second experience were really quite amazing. I am convinced, after my experience, that on occasion, when you are shot, you don't know the minute you are hit. There is a sort of a perceptible period following the impact before you get the full realization that you have been hit. In the first case, it was a fellow officer in World War I. We were not far apart and he quietly said, "Jack, I think I am hit." He shortly collapsed subsequently and died of his wound. The other experience, which is almost unbelievable, was in Berlin when we were rehearsing for the reception of President Truman, who was going to visit us at the American headquarters in Berlin after the war. I had been, as you know, an official of the Government, Military Governor, and later High Commissioner for Germany, and Gen. Lucius Clay, my predecessor as Military Governor was with me, and we began to rehearse the ceremony because President Truman was coming along that afternoon to visit the headquarters. We were rehearsing, for example, who would step up and first shake hands with the President, when the bugles should sound off, et cetera--"You are going to do this and you that." There was a friend of mine who was on Clay's staff and who later became a very distinguished jurist in Massachusetts. He became Chief Judge of the Supreme Judicial Court. His name was Cutter, and we designated him to pose as the President. We said, "you are going to be President Truman, you are going to be the President and are to stand here." We started through the rehearsal. This was in front of the headquarters in Berlin and, by George, Cutter turned to me at a certain point, sort of hesitated and said, "Jack, I think I'm shot," and in a little while, he collapsed. You can imagine what a tizzy that created.


I know Governor Connally very well; I have shot quail with him and I know he's a good shot and I know he is familiar with firearms. Frankly, I don't think he knew exactly when he was hit. I saw his recent testimony--at least somebody reported to me, perhaps indirectly, that he wasn't as certain now as when he first appeared before us--before our Commission when he said he was sure it wasn't the same shot which hit President Kennedy which hit him. I don't know where that bullet could have gone if it didn't go through Governor Connally. Moreover, Governor Connally didn't know until the next day, I think it was, that he had been shot in the hand, as well as in the body. I am suggesting that the certainty which he felt earlier isn't entirely reliable. The Germans have a word for it. They call it the "nachschlag." I believe those who had been close to places where people have been shot are frequently aware of a perceptible delay on the part of the victim in registering an awareness of the shot.
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Jerry Organ on July 16, 2021, 04:58:07 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/1XGknzLL/complete-26-volume-set-warren-1-0435337a30caa5f03ad167f549e8260c.jpg)

For about $10....you can get an easily storable CD containing all 26 volumes. They actually fail to support the ultimate determination of the Report.

 I have linked this before and the statement was ignored-----

Quote
Four of the seven members of the commission, Boggs, Cooper, McCloy, and Russell, had serious doubts regarding the conclusions of the commission that the President and Governor Connally were both wounded by the "magic bullet" and regarding the view that Oswald had acted alone.[30][31]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Commission#Skepticism

The majority of the very Commission itself "had serious doubts" regarding their own conclusions!! So, would that not have made [by definition established here on this forum by the anti-skeptics] these gentlemen 'conspiracy theorists'?

Hale Boggs shouldn't be in a group that "had serious doubts ... that Oswald had acted alone". Boggs had some doubts about the SBT only; but in 1966, he said the SBT evidence was "very persuasive" and that "almost any marksman using a telescopic sight could have performed that dastardly deed". I believe Boggs was quoted in Epstein's "Inquest" (possibly the "source" for the Wikipedia paragraph; the direct source is Oliver Stone's "Untold History" book) as having "strong doubts" about the SBT. Epstein himself doubted the SBT but believes Oswald acted alone anyway.

John Sherman Cooper shouldn't be in a group that "had serious doubts ... that Oswald had acted alone". Cooper, like Boggs, doubted the SBT when he said "there was no evidence to show that they were hit by the same bullet." Doubting the SBT doesn't mean you then believe in multiple gunmen: ie the Mark Fuhrman and Andrew Mason Theories. The SBT-doubters on the Commission placed an unwarranted faith in Nellie Connally's conviction that the President was struck before her husband was, and so simply envisioned a shot through Kennedy, followed a few seconds later by a shot through Connally. There seems to be no record as to how the Blue Ribbon Doubters, in the years followed the release of the Report, explained what happened to the bullet that emerged from the President's throat if it did not strike the Governor.

Richard Russell Jr. -- who attended a whopping six out of 94 Hearings -- was the only Commissioner to have "serious doubts ... that Oswald had acted alone". He said, for example, in 1970 that he didn't have "the slightest doubt" that Oswald fired all the shots, but he "never believed that Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated President Kennedy without at least some encouragement from others" and "I think someone else worked with him." I guess he means some limited conspiracy (in the form of support) and that Oswald acted by himself in Dealey Plaza.

The Warren Report stated: "There was no question in the mind of any member of the Commission that all the shots which caused the President's and Governor Connally's wounds were fired from the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository." This is something at that time that all members agreed to. Yet, Freeman, whose motto is "I am not a 'CT'", wants (showing his bias) to have most of the Commissioners be CTs.
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Jerry Organ on July 21, 2021, 10:23:22 PM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hFTI3gVQSmw/YOoPrCirnBI/AAAAAAAE1LM/wSYPjv9vtUcZM1I2ahIF1EOCce8PSsPJQCLcBGAsYHQ/w270-h400/JFK_27x40_RGB_SIMPLE_V02_7MB.jpg)

"The Playlist" review by Mark Asch just checked the Tomatometer to 56%. Some excerpts ...

    "So many of the supposedly telling facts about the chain
     of evidence of the assassin’s bullet, the muddled autopsy
     protocol, conflicted eyewitness testimony, even the weight
     of Kennedy’s brain, are treated as damning, rather than as
     minor inconsistencies most easily explained as the natural
     consequences of confusion, trauma, bureaucratic sloppiness,
     the limits of forensic science in the early 1960s, and the
     unreliability of memory."
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "Even without the benefit of a pause button to check Wikipedia
     to see which facts Stone has omitted, his sleight-of-hand is
     obvious. A bullet the voiceover claims was undamaged is
     clearly deformed in its tip when seen in a frontal view"

(https://images2.imgbox.com/4c/fa/QfyHKlIt_o.gif)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
( Reviewer probably meant the rear tip as seen "end-on" )
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: John Mytton on July 24, 2021, 01:47:07 AM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hFTI3gVQSmw/YOoPrCirnBI/AAAAAAAE1LM/wSYPjv9vtUcZM1I2ahIF1EOCce8PSsPJQCLcBGAsYHQ/w270-h400/JFK_27x40_RGB_SIMPLE_V02_7MB.jpg)

"The Playlist" review by Mark Asch just checked the Tomatometer to 56%. Some excerpts ...

    "So many of the supposedly telling facts about the chain
     of evidence of the assassin’s bullet, the muddled autopsy
     protocol, conflicted eyewitness testimony, even the weight
     of Kennedy’s brain, are treated as damning, rather than as
     minor inconsistencies most easily explained as the natural
     consequences of confusion, trauma, bureaucratic sloppiness,
     the limits of forensic science in the early 1960s, and the
     unreliability of memory."
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
    "Even without the benefit of a pause button to check Wikipedia
     to see which facts Stone has omitted, his sleight-of-hand is
     obvious. A bullet the voiceover claims was undamaged is
     clearly deformed in its tip when seen in a frontal view"

(https://images2.imgbox.com/4c/fa/QfyHKlIt_o.gif)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
( Reviewer probably meant the rear tip as seen "end-on" )

"That sequence is just the beginning of our demolition of CE 399.  One of my objectives in writing the script was this: From here on in whenever anybody even mentions CE 399 everyone will giggle. And that is what we did. Remember what Mantik says about it being foundational to the HSCA and WC.  Well, we will show that there was no foundation to it. It was all lies."
James DiEugenio

Talk about delusions of grandeur, read what DiEugenio claims about CE 399, but I bet the film doesn't address the bullet being planted on a different floor and how "they" just hoped someone would find CE 399 and make the necessary link and I bet they don't explain how even before the surgery was finished the psychic conspirators knew to plant a bullet with a tiny amount of missing lead that just happens to closely match the amount of lead found in Connally and how they knew to deform the bullet so it was consistent with travelling sideways as it smashed through Connally's ribs another fact which only become apparent after Connally's surgery.

(https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bullet3.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/fTFSFCC7/Lattimer-fragments-80-100a.jpg)

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 55%
Post by: Michael T. Griffith on July 26, 2021, 09:55:34 PM
So a bunch of establishment media outlets have panned the documentary. Shocking! Say it ain't so. What a surprise. By the way, on IMDB, the documentary has a rating of 7.9 out of 10, but of course you went and cherry picked only the negative reviews.

The documentary is actually quite good. It's a huge improvement over the movie JFK.



Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 55%
Post by: John Mytton on July 26, 2021, 10:30:58 PM
So a bunch of establishment media outlets have panned the documentary. Shocking! Say it ain't so. What a surprise. By the way, on IMDB, the documentary has a rating of 7.9 out of 10, but of course you went and cherry picked only the negative reviews.

The documentary is actually quite good. It's a huge improvement over the movie JFK.

Quote
So a bunch of establishment media outlets have panned the documentary. Shocking! Say it ain't so. What a surprise

That pesky "establishment", more than half a century later and still trying to keep the man down. 

Quote
By the way, on IMDB, the documentary has a rating of 7.9 out of 10, but of course you went and cherry picked only the negative reviews

Oh yes, user reviews are oh so reliable, let's have a closer look at the distribution of user scores and as I predicted clearly a lot of old paranoid "scholars" have review bombed this film but simply in reverse! Hilarious. Thanks for the laughs Griff, I hope you stick around and share more of your pearls of wisdom.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Njqj1khN/imbd-jfk-revisited.jpg)

JohnM

Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 55%
Post by: Jon Banks on July 30, 2021, 07:58:50 PM
So a bunch of establishment media outlets have panned the documentary. Shocking! Say it ain't so. What a surprise. By the way, on IMDB, the documentary has a rating of 7.9 out of 10, but of course you went and cherry picked only the negative reviews.

The documentary is actually quite good. It's a huge improvement over the movie JFK.

That's good to hear. I'm looking forward to watching it.
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 55%
Post by: Robert Reeves on July 30, 2021, 09:46:02 PM
Am I missing something, how are people reviewing JFK Revisited ... I am unable to even find any streaming service, etc, that is showing it. I'm in UK, is this available in USA yet?
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 55%
Post by: Jerry Organ on July 30, 2021, 10:28:15 PM
Am I missing something, how are people reviewing JFK Revisited ... I am unable to even find any streaming service, etc, that is showing it. I'm in UK, is this available in USA yet?

The reviewers were in Cannes where the documentary was screened for them in a theatre. They also has an open-air screening (Cinema de la Plage) of the 1991 "JFK" movie.

(https://euronewsweek.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Euronewsweek-Cannes-La-Plage-2048x1536.jpeg)

Now we know where our $200+ monthly media bill goes.

(An illegal pirated copy of "JFK Revisited" will probably be available on YouTube soon.)
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Jerry Freeman on September 07, 2021, 01:39:16 AM
McCloy should not be in this group. There is no place for the bullet exiting JFK's throat to go but into JBC's back. McCloy also states this very point.  Mr. McCLOY  - Warren Commission Member to the HSCA about SBT...........
Frankly, I don't think he knew exactly when he was hit. I saw his recent testimony-- at least somebody reported to me, perhaps indirectly, that he wasn't as certain now as when he first appeared before us [Really? So who was that un-named indirect somebody?] --before our Commission when I don't know where that bullet could have gone if it didn't go through Governor Connally.... he said he was sure it wasn't the same shot which hit President Kennedy which hit him.
John Connally was absolutely "sure" about his being wounded--- but the Commission group would not accept this unrestricted certainty--- obviously because it did not fit the 6th window only account. Shabby and downright pathetic!
Quote
Truth A lone gunman narrative is our only client.


The Warren Report stated: "There was no question in the mind of any member of the Commission that all the shots which caused the President's and Governor Connally's wounds were fired from the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository." This is something at that time that all members agreed to. Yet, Freeman, whose motto is "I am not a 'CT'", wants (showing his bias) to have most of the Commissioners be CTs.
The whole purpose of the Commission was leave no question. So why all the questions to this day? Where did I say "I want to have" anything. I just quoted *wikipedia is all. Skepticism is not bias but Organ is quite obviously bias. Show where I advanced any conspiracy theory. I just shamelessly question the official theory.   
*
Quote
Skepticism--- Four of the seven members of the commission, Boggs, Cooper, McCloy, and Russell, had serious doubts regarding the conclusions of the commission that the President and Governor Connally were both wounded by the "magic bullet" and regarding the view that Oswald had acted alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Commission#Skepticism
Just click the link
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Jerry Organ on September 07, 2021, 01:57:42 AM
John Connally was absolutely "sure" about his being wounded--- but the Commission group would not accept this unrestricted certainty--- obviously because it did not fit the 6th window only account. Shabby and downright pathetic!  The whole purpose of the Commission was leave no question. So why all the questions to this day?

Because CTs and the so-called "skeptics" (LOL!) lack the investigative training of the Commission staff and federal/state police agencies and labs. The anti-vaccine and Climate Change deniers don't understand science and think the government and scientists are lying to them.

Quote
Where did I say "I want to have" anything.

    "The majority of the very Commission itself "had serious doubts" regarding their
     own conclusions!! So, would that not have made [by definition established here
     on this forum by the anti-skeptics] these gentlemen 'conspiracy theorists'?"

To which I responded: "Yet, Freeman, whose motto is "I am not a 'CT'", wants (showing his bias) to have most of the Commissioners be CTs."

Quote
I just quoted *wikipedia is all. Skepticism is not bias but Organ is quite obviously bias. Show where I advanced any conspiracy theory. I just shamelessly question the official theory.   
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Commission#Skepticism
Just click the link

Nah, you're a Conspiracy Theorist, no matter how you dress it up. LNers are like the WC staff: Truth is our only client.
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 55%
Post by: Jon Banks on September 08, 2021, 12:03:54 AM
The trailer looks great. Surprised this hasn't been picked up yet by any of the major streaming services. Sounds like Whoopi Goldberg is the narrator.

Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Walt Cakebread on September 08, 2021, 03:08:03 AM
Because CTs and the so-called "skeptics" (LOL!) lack the investigative training of the Commission staff and federal/state police agencies and labs. The anti-vaccine and Climate Change deniers don't understand science and think the government and scientists are lying to them.

    "The majority of the very Commission itself "had serious doubts" regarding their
     own conclusions!! So, would that not have made [by definition established here
     on this forum by the anti-skeptics] these gentlemen 'conspiracy theorists'?"

To which I responded: "Yet, Freeman, whose motto is "I am not a 'CT'", wants (showing his bias) to have most of the Commissioners be CTs."

Nah, you're a Conspiracy Theorist, no matter how you dress it up. LNers are like the WC staff: Truth is our only client.

This will be distressing to you Mr O....   But I've noticed that the CT contingent is starting to sing in harmony.   For nearly 60 years the Ct's have been a discordant bunch..... They recognized that the WR was a pile of BS....but they couldn't agree on an alternative to the WR.     Primarily because most of them simply could not accept that "Good ol Unca Sam" was no better than a pimp dictator in some banana state .    They all wanted to find an evil boogie man like the Mafia, or the commies,  to hang the blame on.  Now that we've seen the corrupt politicians stealing elections and billions of our tax dollars, I perceive the citizens are starting to awake.   They are now willing to accept that the murder of President Kennedy was nothing but an old fashioned coup d e'tat....   
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: John Mytton on September 08, 2021, 04:39:46 AM
This will be distressing to you Mr O....   But I've noticed that the CT contingent is starting to sing in harmony.   For nearly 60 years the Ct's have been a discordant bunch..... They recognized that the WR was a pile of BS....but they couldn't agree on an alternative to the WR.     Primarily because most of them simply could not accept that "Good ol Unca Sam" was no better than a pimp dictator in some banana state .    They all wanted to find an evil boogie man like the Mafia, or the commies,  to hang the blame on.  Now that we've seen the corrupt politicians stealing elections and billions of our tax dollars, I perceive the citizens are starting to awake.   They are now willing to accept that the murder of President Kennedy was nothing but an old fashioned coup d e'tat....   

Quote
But I've noticed that the CT contingent is starting to sing in harmony.

Huh, it's the exact opposite. With every passing year, the CT's can't agree on anything and just keep piling more and more diverse BS onto the pile and any chance of unification has long since passed.
You need a leader to herd the sheep and just stick to a conspiracy that you can all agree on but as if that will ever happen.
Sorry Walt but your long lost hopes of a utopia where you can all frolic through the Tulips will never come to pass and as we all die out, the only truth that remains will be the irrefutable Official Version, you know the one that was reinforced a decade and a half later by the HSCA.

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 55%
Post by: Ray Mitcham on September 08, 2021, 12:52:19 PM
quote"Sorry Walt but your long lost hopes of a utopia where you can all frolic through the Tulips will never come to pass and as we all die out, the only truth that remains will be the irrefutable Official Version, you know the one that was reinforced a decade and a half later by the HSCA." /quote


"Irrerfutable Official Version" ROTFLMAO

"Reinforced a decade and a half later by the HSCA" RONTFLMAOEH.
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Tom Scully on September 08, 2021, 08:12:21 PM
Huh, it's the exact opposite. With every passing year, the CT's can't agree on anything and just keep piling more and more diverse BS onto the pile and any chance of unification has long since passed.
You need a leader to herd the sheep and just stick to a conspiracy that you can all agree on but as if that will ever happen.
Sorry Walt but your long lost hopes of a utopia where you can all frolic through the Tulips will never come to pass and as we all die out, the only truth that remains will be the irrefutable Official Version, you know the one that was reinforced a decade and a half later by the HSCA.

JohnM

JohnM.... JohnM..... JooooohhhhhhnnnnnMMM, identify and eliminate the irrelevant coincidences and you'll begin to convince a lot of us that, "acting alone, the lone nut, blah, blah, blah..." isn't the hinky BS these "background details," seem to indicate!

IOW, you don't know anymore than I do, here's why. (If you don't like being hit over the head by the equivalent of an evidentiary, "two X four," don't post like you're begging for it to happen.)

In 1955, this guy William B. Macomber, Jr. is 12 years out of wartime, accelerated Yale University graduation.

Bear in mind, there were only seven Warren Commissioners, one DeMohrenschildt, one lone nut.
Yale "turned out," just fifteen "bonesmen" annually.

....
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51429503865_1ecaf51dc0_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51429174651_19e35ab9ea_b.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51429364059_c724081cf4_c.jpg)
....

https://www.nytimes.com/1946/10/27/archives/miss-nancy-bush-becomes-a-bride-she-is-attended-by-nine-at-marriage.html?searchResultPosition=4

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51437500219_4014b3d651_b.jpg)

November, 1956 :
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51437848375_c89a96c8f6_c.jpg)

The date is Sept. 23, 1960 :
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3578/3768659684_4b5737b120_o.jpg)

Again JohnM, only one George DeM, one "lone nut," seven Warren Commissioners, fifteen Yales Bonesmen tapped annually.

Three Bonesmen were Nancy Bush's father Prescott, brother George, husband Alexander Ellis, Yale football teammate of William Macomber.

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/09/25/archives/hunt-says-he-fabricated-cables-on-diem-to-link-kennedy-to-killing.html
Hunt Says He Fabricated Cables on Diem to Link Kennedy to ...
Sep 25, 1973 — Howard Hunt Jr. said today that he had fabricated State Depart ment cables to show a link between President Kennedy and the assassination of ...

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20Materials/Watergate/Watergate%20Items%2002196%20to%2002394/Watergate%2002386.pdf
May 9, 1973
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51438151895_5b3f5ae48c_b.jpg)

Page five of sixth, Dan Hardaway of the HSCA investigative staff interviewed Cynthia Thomas.:

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32263513.pdf
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51438098765_1b0e2be997_c.jpg)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_B._Macomber_Jr.
William B. Macomber Jr. -
In 1978, Macomber became the first full-time president of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. As president, he oversaw implementation of the MMA's master plan ...

Two of the seven Warren Commissioners were Sen. John Sherman Cooper (R-KY), "tapped for Bones" in 1922, husband of Lorraine Mcadoo Shevlin, widow of Robert Mcadoo, brother of Nona Mcadoo de Mohrenschildt.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51437704579_69a4aa5ecc.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7015/6771383419_67aa95f3be_b.jpg)

So, William Macomber served at least four Bonesmen, including Sen. John Sherman Cooper...

Robert, Francis (see quote box, below) and Nona Mcadoo's step-mother :

William Gibbs McAdoo was 26 years older than Eleanor Wilson.:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Wilson_McAdoo
Eleanor Randolph Wilson McAdoo (October 16, 1889 – April 5, 1967)
...She was born on October 16, 1889 to Woodrow Wilson and Ellen Axson Wilson in Middletown, Connecticut. She was educated at Saint Mary's School, an Episcopal boarding school for girls in Raleigh, North Carolina.[1][2]
She married William Gibbs McAdoo, Wilson's Secretary of the Treasury, at the White House on May 7, 1914.[3] They had two daughters: Ellen Wilson McAdoo (1915–1946)[4] and Mary Faith McAdoo (1920–1988).[5] She divorced McAdoo in July 1935.[6]

You are not invisible, Tom.  Far from it.  Many descendants of whom you post about are reading with great aplomb.

Mark, it's just too complicated... (The bromo-seltzer convergence)

Some of US Treasury Secretary William McAdoo's children :

https://gw.geneanet.org/tdowling?lang=en&n=mcadoo&oc=0&p=william+gibbs
Francis Huger McAdoo 1889- Married dau. of Emerson, their son, Francis Huger McAdoo Jr. was Princeton classmate of Lem Billings and Nicholas Katzenbach & became president of Emerson Drug. Katzenbach's schoolmates at Exeter were Cogswell and his friend, Richard Ober of Operation Chaos notoriety... Patsy Southgate and Richard were in brother Nathaniel Ober's wedding party, Cogswell's parents attended as guests.

Nona Hazlehurst McAdoo 1893-1971  Married in 1917 to Ferdinand de Mohrenschildt †1919

Robert Hazlehurst McAdoo 1900- First spouse became wife of Warren Commissioner Sen. John Sherman Cooper
 
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51403966688_3a481fdbfe_b.jpg)(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51402963322_bb39f0ebee_c.jpg)

Patsy Southgate was well connected with the Paris Review staff in Paris when Tom Devine's partner, John Train was Paris Review business manager, Tom Devine met with DeMohrenschildt two weeks after DeMohrenschildt asked Oswald, "Lee, how did you miss?"

Joseph Dryer, who Cogswell introduced to the HSCA, also met with DeMohrenschildt on the same day, April 25, 1963, as Devine did. Joseph Dryer to Joan Mellen that Tom Devine was his closest friend in Rochester, NY.

Devine's Sigma Chi housemate at M.I.T., a home of 16 fraternity brothers in residence, was Priscilla Johnson's CIA handler, Garry Coit.

"John Sherman Cooper: The Global Kentuckian books.google.com › books (http://John Sherman Cooper: The Global Kentuckianbooks.google.com › books
Robert Schulman · 2021
FOUND INSIDE
I hear John Cooper has been seeing a lot of Lorraine Shevlin.” Lorraine Rowan McAdoo Shevlin a well-educated, unusually charming “grass widow,” often ...)
Robert Schulman · 2021
FOUND INSIDE
I hear John Cooper has been seeing a lot of Lorraine Shevlin.” Lorraine Rowan McAdoo Shevlin a well-educated, unusually charming “grass widow,” often ..."

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/17688-lem-billings-george-de-mohrenschildt-lee-harvey-oswald/?tab=comments#comment-225401
Saturday, May 7, 2011

"Jim DiEugenio's presentation from NID 2010

"...George de Mohrenschildt knew Bush from his old geology days. The fact that de Mohrenschildt was interviewed by the CIA before he went to Haiti and did not tell him [bush] about his acquaintance with Oswald, or about the upcoming coup attempt in Haiti, this somehow became suspicious,... In my opinion de Mohrenschildt didn’t even know what he was doing with Oswald. And he didn’t know until after the fact...."

What would have to be discovered to persuade someone of Jim DiEugenio's stature and accomplishment related to JFK assassination research, analysis, and historical review, to persuade him to stop communicating the opinions I have quoted above?

I would have thought there was already enough information out there, to dispel the notions that, at the time, in late 1962 into early 1963, De Mohrenschildt was an unwitting escort of Lee Harvey Oswald and his wife, Marina. I would have thought there was too great an amount of troubling information linking GHW Bush and his intimates, Ed Hooker and Tom Devine to De Mohrenschildt to discourage anyone as knowledgeable as Jim DiEugenio from distributing such strong opinions.

Jim offers his opinion that Bush was involved in an October "surprise" in 1980, indicating, at least to me, that it is not necessary for there to be strong evidence to influence Jim to take a position on whether or not Bush conspired to commit a major crime against the state.

If Russ Baker had never authored "Family of Secrets" the connections between De Mohrenschildt and the Oswalds, and De Mohrenschildt and Ed Hooker, Bush, and Devine would still exist. It would still be necessary to determine if these connections were merely coincidental of a criminally conspiratorial nature.

Jim seems to be saying he is not interfering with the work of determining the above, because he says he believes there are numerous other reasons to convict Bush of crimes and to jail him. I cannot agree with this opinion, because I think Jim is saying Russ Baker fell woefully short of making his case, which was too farfetched a case to pursue, and besides, we as researchers, have better things to do with our time and effort, that there is more potentially fertile ground to plow than to work to make the determinations I described above, in our quests to turn up information that will help to rule out what is coincidence and devote our attention to what is evidence or a solid lead.

My take on this is that the connections I described above, the same names displayed in the thread title, have not been determined to be coincidental, even after all of these years. More effort must be put in to attempt to separate coincidences from leads, not less.

On other threads, I've posted recent related curiousities I've stumbled upon.

De Mohrenschildt rented a room in Washington, DC in May, 1942, from a US Navy officer named Paul Joachim who was the stepson of the designer of the Underwood Code Machine, aka, the kata-kana typewriter. Joachim retired from the navy in 1954 at the rank of rear admiral, pursued his life long passion for art, and was killed in Chicago in 1962 in a still unsolved murder by multiple gunshots.

Another naval officer was living at Joachim's house in May, 1942. His name was Harry Hull, he was a WWII submarine commander, retired from the navy with the rank of rear admiral, and was married from 1939 until his death, to a first cousin of James Kelsey Cogswell, III. Hull's mother was widowed in 1920 and married again in 1925 to a man whose brother became a four star US Navy admiral.

In 1953, James Kelsey Cogswell, III married the first cousin of Bush's best friend, Will Farish III. At his wedding ceremony with Joan Farish, Cogswell's best man was WWII US Navy, PT boat Squadron 7 radar officer and silver star medalist, George Olin Walbridge, 2d.

Walbridge served in Squadron 7 in New Guineau during WWII with PT-129 navy officer and fellow silver star medalist, Francis H. McAdoo, Jr., Lt. (jg) USNR.

McAdoo was the nephew of Ferdinand De Mohrenschildt's widow, Nona McAdoo, the sister of Francis H. McAdoo, Jr's father.

New York Times - Mar 26, 1939

...Mr. McAdoo had Arthur Pew Gorman of Stevenson, Md., for his best man, and the ushers were K. Lemoyn Billings and Robert Bell Deford Jr. of Baltimore,...

"..Mr. McAdoo is a grandson of former United States Senator William Gibbs McAdoo of California and, on the maternal side, of Mrs. Isaac E. Emerson of Baltimore. He went to St. Paul's School at Concord, N. H., and w as a member of the calss of '38 at Princeton University...."

In addition to being Lem Billings's close friend from Princeton University, this newly emerged, American relative of George De Mohrenschildt, became president of Emerson Drug Co. and appointed Billings as V.P. Francis H. McAdoo, Jr's WWII fellow navy PT boat officer, George O. Walbridge, 2d, was hired as an Emerson Drug Co. marketing executive and worked for the company until his retirement. The first link in this post contains a photo of Billings and Walbridge in Cuba in 1955.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51403926883_7e0c101ee4_c.jpg)

(Reminder, everything posted below the EducationForum link above is from May, 2011...)
The post immediately before the linked post displays details of James aka Jake, aka Jack Cogswell's relationship with AMRAZZ-1, aka Joaquin Godoy.

Elmer H. Bobst's Warner-Lambert acquired Emerson Drug Co. in 1953, and Billings left the company in 1958. McAdoo stayed on.

Isn't it at all curious that Lem Billings relationships with two PT boat winners of silver star medals for heroic combat performances in the Pacific theater during WWII was never reported by the press, before or after JFK's assassination, or by the WC or HSCA, or by Lem Billings, himself?

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/Archives/KLBPP.aspx "

Better start another thread....

And Yale Law School graduate and unelected POTUS and Warren Commissioner Gerald Ford, as the HSCA inquiry was heating up, appoints the recent chairman of the republican party, a man purported to have no experience in the field of intelligence collection and analysis, as DCI.

Less than a 1-1/2 years later, Billy Lord "fingers" BEAMIS as advisor to Bush's "emissary," Henry Hurt, on how best to coerce Billy Lord into talking about Lee Harvey Oswald!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51197174691_bf9dc62c13_c.jpg)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9963#relPageId=175
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51429072393_a8682ef711_c.jpg)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=12758#relPageId=2
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51438003130_d13b45d200_b.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51432334524_0b1b258361_b.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51427859580_476a8a1c17_b.jpg)

Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 55%
Post by: Tom Scully on September 09, 2021, 02:45:58 AM
In this eight year old blog post, Linda Minor and Lisa Pease get to the heart of the matter...


Quote
https://wherethegoldis.blogspot.com/2013/04/for-whom-does-cia-really-work.html
....Payne Whitney had inherited his uncle's huge mansion in New York, and the 1920 census shows Jock and Joan living there with their parents--only four people at 972 Fifth Avenue--being cared for by fifteen servants, none of whom were American-born. Payne's business address, 14 Wall Street, was the Bankers Trust Company, set up by the White and Case law firm in 1903, and was controlled by J.P. Morgan affiliates in the days prior to the creation of the Federal Reserve banking system. Before 1930 Morgan bankers controlled United States government policy on currency. According to economist Murray Rothbard, the first governor of the New York Federal Reserve Bank was:
Benjamin Strong, who had spent virtually his entire business and personal life in the circle of top associates of J.P. Morgan. A secretary of several trust companies (banks doing trust business) in New York City, Strong became neighbor and close friend of three top Morgan partners, Henry P. Davison, Dwight Morrow, and Thomas W. Lamont. Davison, in particular, became his mentor, and brought him into Morgan's Bankers Trust company, where he soon succeeded Lamont as vice-president, and then finally became president. When Strong was offered the post of Governor of the New York Fed, it was Davison who persuaded him to take the job....The main collaboration throughout the 1920s, much of it kept secret from the Federal Reserve Board in Washington, was between Strong and the man who soon became Governor of the Bank of England, Montagu Collet Norman. Norman and Strong were not only fast friends, but had important investment-banking ties, Norman's uncle having been a partner of the great English banking firm of Baring Brothers, and his grandfather a partner in the international banking house of Brown Shipley and Co., the London branch of the Wall Street banking firm of Brown Brothers. Before coming to the Bank of England, Norman himself had worked at the Wall Street office of Brown Brothers, and then returned to London to become a partner of Brown Shipley.

Quote
https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/archival-collection/papers-benjamin-strong-jr-1160/correspondence-federal-reserve-bank-new-york-2305/fulltext

Full text of Papers of Benjamin Strong, Jr. - FRASER
In 1907 he married his second wife, who was Katherine Five children survive him. They are Benjamin Strong, Jr., Philip Strong, Mrs. Watt S. Humphrey, ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Strong_Jr.
Benjamin Strong Jr. (December 22, 1872 – October 16, 1928) was an American banker. He served as Governor of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York for 14 years until his death...

The Role of Brown Brothers Harriman

Montagu Norman had been called "the currency dictator of Europe" by the Wall Street Journal in 1927. Thus, when the U.S. government witnessed the decline of the Brown Brothers investment bank in 1926, it felt the need to shore it up with an infusion of capital and turned to the two Yale educated sons of robber baron E.H. Harriman to do so. Averell and Roland (Bunny) Harrison were the Skull and Bones friends and eventual partners of Prescott Sheldon Bush, the father and grandfather of two future presidents.

It is no coincidence that America's earliest attempts at setting up intelligence agencies called upon the talents of the sons of Wall Street bankers. Idealistic principles often fall by the wayside when big money is involved, and it is the wealthy elitists who think they have the most to lose in the games played in international market manipulations. The poor have only their lives, and are often treated as cannon fodder by such elitists on every front.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FXEiHeGtsdY/UXAWf1Lyb3I/AAAAAAAAC_I/t3u2B8iH4GY/s640/Montagu+Norman_BIS_1930.jpg)

In the years between the two "great" wars the Brown Brothers partner, Montagu Norman, was actively concerned with handling Germany's reparations payments, working with the first head of the Bank for International Settlements, Gates McGarrah, whose grandson, Richard McGarrah Helms, would later head the Central Intelligence Agency.

Within six months after the above photos appeared in the news, Norman had found the perfect rich kids to entice with the power of helping to run the world. Their father's death in September 1909, when the boys were mere teenagers, had been the top headline in newspapers throughout America. Their mentor became the man most trusted by their father to run his business, Robert Scott Lovett, who would see that the boys were educated at Yale alongside his own son, Robert Abercrombie Lovett. All would rise to power in the government as the second great war approached, with help from their brothers in Skull and Bones.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E3kdPpgrUjI/UXAfM2-JW0I/AAAAAAAAC_Q/IwaNfeHdVg4/s1600/boysintheoffice.jpg
Prescott Bush, center, with Brown Brothers Harriman partners--Bunny Harriman, Knight Woolley, and R.A. Lovett

By following the money, you often learn how the world really operates, who works for whom, so to speak.

Oliver Stone relates in his book, The Untold History of the United States:
"Prominent among the American capitalists with ties to Nazi counterparts was Prescott Bush, the father of one president and grandfather of another. Researchers have been trying for years to determine the precise nature of Bush's ties to Fritz Thyssen, the wealthy German industrialist who played a crucial role in bankrolling Hitler, as revealed in his 1941 memoirs I Paid Hitler. Thyssen ultimately repudiated the Nazi dictator and was himself imprisoned.
While incarcerated, Thyssen's vast wealth was protected overseas, much of it by the investment firm of Brown Brothers Harriman, through the holding company Union Banking Corporation. The account was managed by senior partner Prescott Bush.
"

About ten years younger than the Harriman boys, Jock Whitney and his sister sat atop a huge pile of money which they would make available to those in power engaged in manipulation of international currency. Although Jock went to Yale, he was tapped for Scroll and Key, rather than the Bones secret society, and was a mere two years behind Scroll and Key member James Stillman Rockefeller (son of Elsie Stillman and William G. Rockefeller), whose Uncle Percy, married in 1901 to Elsie's sister Isabel Stillman, was a member of the Skull and Bones class of 1900. Only a year after his Yale graduation, James Stillman Rockefeller had united fortunes with the Carnegies by marrying the niece of the steel magnate whose fortune had been liquidated by the Morgan bank. Five years later, Chase Manhattan bank would acquire the Equitable Trust, another Morgan affiliate--thus shifting control of the New York Fed in 1930 from Morgan to Rockefeller-owned banks at the same time Freeport Sulphur's control shifted under the leadership of Langbourne Williams, Jr., a Stillman son-in-law, as will be detailed in the next installment.

The "facilitator" at the center of Linda Minor's research quoted above was Benjamin Strong, Jr.

 Benjamin Strong, Jr.'s son, Philip Grandin Strong :

(https://web.archive.org/web/20180222121044/http://jfk.pics/images/CDJacksonLloydSmithHonorsHill1917.jpg)

Brainerd Walker Spencer was future USMC general Philip G Strong's Princeton roommate and then best man of CIA's NOLA chief Burke and was a lifelong friend.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51437694093_846ae3537d_c.jpg)

(https://web.archive.org/web/20180222121045/http://jfk.pics//images/BurkePhilStrongHillSchool1918.jpg)

(https://web.archive.org/web/20180222121044/http://jfk.pics//images/BurkeSpencerHillSchool1918.jpg)

Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 55%
Post by: John Mytton on September 09, 2021, 02:56:00 AM
In this eight year old blog post, Linda Minor and Lisa Pease get to the heart of the matter...

For us Dummies, it might be a good idea in your opening spiel to give a brief summation of where your following research leads because reading between the lines and trying to figure out what the heck you are trying to say, makes me skip a lot of your posts. Don't get me wrong I appreciate all the effort but sometimes it's just too difficult to make a link between your research and the JFK assassination.

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 55%
Post by: Tom Scully on September 11, 2021, 10:54:19 PM
For us Dummies, it might be a good idea in your opening spiel to give a brief summation of where your following research leads because reading between the lines and trying to figure out what the heck you are trying to say, makes me skip a lot of your posts. Don't get me wrong I appreciate all the effort but sometimes it's just too difficult to make a link between your research and the JFK assassination.

JohnM

JohnM, I find "things" that I truly believe "our pryin' eyes" are not meant to see. What I stumble upon literally "steal my thoughts," or at least my focus.

Expanding on Linda Minor's blog post liberally quoted in my last post,
Richard Helms's grandfather... he held the post WC's McCloy would ascend to, in 1955, of the successor bank Gates W. McGarrah headed, 15 years before McCloy. The merger of the Rockefeller's Equitable Trust with McGarrah's Mechanics and Metals Bank ultimately brought McCloy to Chase in 1955 to represent the Rockefeller interests, which is what he was also doing on the Warren Commission and in blowing upper Carter's presidency by "counseling" Jimmy Carter to allow the Shah into the U.S. "for medical treatment".

Did you know Richard Helms's father, Dietrich Helms, was a German national, or that Helms

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Helms
...Besides, Helms was a key witness before the Senate during its investigation of the CIA by the Church Committee in the mid-1970s, 1975 being called the "Year of Intelligence".[2] This investigation was hampered severely by Helms having ordered the destruction of all files related to the CIA's mind control program in 1973.[3]...

Thanks to Linda Minor bringing it to my attention, we now know that,
Quote
...From 1923 to 1926, McGarrah, a Republican, served as a director of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.[10] In 1927, he was appointed by the Federal Reserve Board of Governors in Washington as Federal Reserve agent and chairman of the board in New York. He also served as a director of the Astor Trust Company, the Bankers Trust Company and the Mercantile Trust Company.[1] He was a member of the board of directors of the Astor Foundation, which owned Newsweek.[11]

Newsweek's founder Thomas JC Martin was Henry Luce's cousin, a lontime editor of Time...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsweek#Founding_and_early_years_(1933–1961)

Looking up the wedding announcement of the first and longtime CIA domestic contacts chief of the Southeast region of the U.S., William P. Burke, I came upon something that led to a sense of how William Burke won that appointment to CIA by the late 1940s. There are two influences.

Helms's grandfather McGarrah, oversaw the work of Benjamin Strong, Jr., president of the most powerful of the Federal Reserve regional banks, New York.

Hunter Leake and Burke's successor in 1962 at the NOLA CIA office, Lloyd Ray, if I recall had the same best man in their weddings, William Hagerty, who had a sister who was a Mardi Gras secret society queen.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51448711378_a21618c729_n.jpg)

When I checked Burke's wedding announcement, it said his best man was Brainerd Walker Spencer.
Burke's mother-in-law, wife, and daughter :
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/100653422/marietta-kittredge
Queen MKC 1900
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/100521564/frances-ivy-burke
Queen MKC 1927
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/100520469/constance-ivy-fedoroff
Queen MKC 1950

Burke's best man and Phil Strong's Princeton roommate Spencer, honoring Burke's daughter the year before
she was Comus's queen,

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51447910822_3291904983.jpg)[/url]

MKC = A 1990 integration of their membership order by the City of NOLA caused Rex and Comus to cease public Mardi Gras activity instead of integrating. MKC annual king and its membership are secret. Only the king of Comus's choice of queen is announced.

Quote
Mistick Krewe of Comus -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistick_Krewe_of_Comus
The Mistick Krewe of Comus, founded in 1856, is a New Orleans, Louisiana, Carnival krewe. ... The Krewe of Comus never resumed its parading....

Quote
In 1857, Comus taught New Orleans how to parade | 300 for 300
https://www.300nola.com/portfolio-items/in_1857_comus_taught_new_orlea/
Jul 25, 2018 — Unlike Rex, Comus' identity is never revealed. The torch carriers who helped illuminate the Comus parade were the beginning of the flambeaux .

Description of Brainerd Walker Spencer (In my last post, I included three images from a Hill School, Pottstown, PA, showing that Spencer, Phil Strong, and CD Jackson were all schoolmates.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51441445204_4f1e811213_c.jpg)

Phil Strong was the son of Benjamin Strong, Jr. In 1954, Phil Strong, USMC reserve Captain and founder of the O.S.S. recruit training center in 1954, used his combined contacts as CIA Science Director and friend of Lockheed's Kelly Johnson, to earn Phil Strong the title of "Father of the U2".

In 1936, reserve USMC Captain Philip G Strong quit his job in banking to conduct an extended walking tour through Germany and eventually, into the Soviet Union, interviewing young people in countries on his route.
General Philip G Strong's grandson has his letters,

Quote
https://www.tor.com/2013/08/09/toby-barlow-cia-agent-babayaga/
I Never Knew My Grandfather, Only What He Pretended to Be
Aug 9, 2013 — His name is Philip Strong and he has boarded here in the Hamburg station, ... strike up an acquaintance with a fellow name Otto Fuerbringer.

Otto Fuerbringer was working in Berlin in 1936, as a correspondent for a St. Louis newspaper when he gave
Phil Strong a post olympics, tour of Berlin.

In 1963 Otto Fuerbringer was editor-in-chief at Time magazine. He likely approved Stolley's purchase of the Zapruder film. Less than four weeks later, Fuerbringer approved a Time cover and feature article of Guy de Rothschild. I guess the beginnings of the WC was "back page, stuff".

Late in 1952 :
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51447936177_172ea72e47_k.jpg)

I know a lot, but I don't know what motivated Jim Garrison or what his goals were. How can Oliver Stone, DiEugenio, or you know?
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Jerry Freeman on September 13, 2021, 06:24:08 AM
... skeptics lack the investigative training of the Commission staff and federal/state police agencies. Nah, you're a Conspiracy Theorist
Yeah, all these guys had routinely investigated presidential assassinations every day.
 
Quote
A 'theory' is an idea attempting to explain something.
Quote
conspiracy--- asserting that a secret of great importance is being kept from the public.

The public is always told the truth. Political leaders never lie. That also goes for cops and lawyers   :-\   
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: John Mytton on September 13, 2021, 06:52:36 AM
The public is always told the truth. Political leaders never lie. That also goes for cops and lawyers   :-\

Of course people lie, everyone on the Planet has told a lie, but more importantly people also talk and as Benjamin Franklin once said "Three May Keep a Secret if Two are Dead" and on a case of this size there are hundreds perhaps thousands of potential leaks but the CT's want us to believe that all these people even after decades had their mouths permanently glued shut and as we know that assumption just isn't Human nature.
Every big secret eventually comes out, because people blab, it's a fact of life.

JohnM
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Walt Cakebread on September 13, 2021, 07:46:46 PM
Of course people lie, everyone on the Planet has told a lie, but more importantly people also talk and as Benjamin Franklin once said "Three May Keep a Secret if Two are Dead" and on a case of this size there are hundreds perhaps thousands of potential leaks but the CT's want us to believe that all these people even after decades had their mouths permanently glued shut and as we know that assumption just isn't Human nature.
Every big secret eventually comes out, because people blab, it's a fact of life.

JohnM

Every big secret eventually comes out, because people blab, it's a fact of life.

I'm sure that you believe this, Johnny......  But I disagree.....    If the secret is personal and humiliating or very embarrassing, it may never be exposed.   If the tale the government foisted upon the public was true....  There would be no arguing about it after nearly sixty years.    Basically the tale simply doesn't make sense, or ring true.
Title: Re: JFK Revisited currently has a Rotten Tomato score of 56%
Post by: Jerry Organ on September 13, 2021, 10:41:21 PM
Every big secret eventually comes out, because people blab, it's a fact of life.

I'm sure that you believe this, Johnny......  But I disagree.....    If the secret is personal and humiliating or very embarrassing, it may never be exposed.   If the tale the government foisted upon the public was true....  There would be no arguing about it after nearly sixty years.    Basically the tale simply doesn't make sense, or ring true.

History and Discovery Channels, and the like, have shows about long-lasting unsolved mysteries. Many are down to folklore or lost to antiquity, or very limited as to individuals.

(https://otakukart.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Hunting-Disovery-Experts.jpg)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
"Hunting Atlantis" (Discovery, 2021)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
English-Greek novelist Stel Pavlou and American pop geologist Volcano Jess ride stick-shift Range Rovers through the Balkans and Asia Minor, pretending amazement at artifacts shown by local archeologists. Clean outdoor fun.
      (https://www.hollandsentinel.com/storyimage/MI/20200208/ENTERTAINMENTLIFE/200209293/AR/0/AR-200209293.jpg)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
"Expedition Unknown" (Discovery, 2021)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
Every-man Indiana Jones-like Josh Gates (above, right) has looked at Dillinger's Lost Loot, a Lost Avenger off California and D.B. Cooper so far this season. Gates will suit up and test out a theory, but it's really entertainment.
      (https://www.ajc.com/resizer/Y7Q1Qe0JP5Y3ZceNmqZjA40mfUU=/814x458/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/ajc/ZZ5N6BBVTBEQZO5WMPIMAF5VGA.jpg)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
"The Proof is Out There" (History, 2021)
(http://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1j4PIpNCtZbphz0kmWxmCckNi3vDlG5He)
One of the few shows with a serious debunker (or he will say it can't be explained). New season starts Friday with a look at UFOs.
       

The shows "The Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch" and ""History's Greatest Mysteries" are not good, IMO, as were those shows a while back "tracing" Hitler to South America. "The Curse of Oak Island" is entertaining with well-intention people, but its primary quest is hopeless.

Examples of the individual or limited-number (like three or less) unsolved mysteries are Jack the Ripper, Judge Crater, Black Dahlia and the Zodiac Killer. There were a few solved mysteries involving individuals that were unraveled thought slip-ups or DNA, such as the UnaBomber, and the BTK and Golden State Killers. They might have remained mysteries forever. The Kennedy assassination was an individual-driven pseudo-mystery, quickly solved by Oswald's actions. It wasn't planned as a mystery and the assassin didn't expect to get away with it.