JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Dan O'meara on April 29, 2021, 05:58:56 PM
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This clip is from Tom Alyea's footage from inside the TSBD in the immediate aftermath of the assassination.
In it we see Baker and Truly. I believe the man in the dark suit/hat and glasses is Ochus Campbell (possibly).
Just behind him a man becomes partially visible for a second. Unlike the others he seems to be in work gear.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bvs3dc3v/Alyea-first-floor-ID.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
This is a close up of the man.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Y3wXWvR/Alyea-first-floor-ID-close.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
I wondered if anyone knew who he was.
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I'm guessing this footage is taken about 10 minutes after the assassination.
Sawyer gives the order to lock down the building around 12:37 PM
Alyea reports getting in the building just as it is locked down.
The footage above is taken on the first floor and must be some of the earliest footage Alyea took.
Also, there's this from Truly:
Mr. BELIN. All right.
And then you got down eventually to the first floor?
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. About how long after these shots do you think it took you to go all the way up and look around the roof and come all the way down again?
Mr. TRULY. Oh, we might have been gone between 5 and 10 minutes. It is hard to say.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got back to the first floor, or what did you see?
Mr. TRULY. When I got back to the first floor, at first I didn't see anything except officers running around, reporters in the place. There was a regular madhouse.
Mr. BELIN. Had they sealed off the building yet, do you know?
Mr. TRULY. I am sure they had.
The reporter he is referring to must surely be Alyea. Truly seems to be describing what we can see in Alyea's footage.
The important point is that both men confirm the TSBD had been locked down at this point so there should only be law enforcement officials, a couple of reporters and TSBD employees in the building.
The man in question doesn't appear to be wearing a suit and tie.
I think that rules out law enforcement, reporters and management of the TSBD.
This leaves the "manual" workers - a white, male manual worker, perhaps.
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I'm guessing this footage is taken about 10 minutes after the assassination.
Sawyer gives the order to lock down the building around 12:37 PM
Alyea reports getting in the building just as it is locked down.
The footage above is taken on the first floor and must be some of the earliest footage Alyea took.
Also, there's this from Truly:
Mr. BELIN. All right.
And then you got down eventually to the first floor?
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. About how long after these shots do you think it took you to go all the way up and look around the roof and come all the way down again?
Mr. TRULY. Oh, we might have been gone between 5 and 10 minutes. It is hard to say.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got back to the first floor, or what did you see?
Mr. TRULY. When I got back to the first floor, at first I didn't see anything except officers running around, reporters in the place. There was a regular madhouse.
Mr. BELIN. Had they sealed off the building yet, do you know?
Mr. TRULY. I am sure they had.
The reporter he is referring to must surely be Alyea. Truly seems to be describing what we can see in Alyea's footage.
The important point is that both men confirm the TSBD had been locked down at this point so there should only be law enforcement officials, a couple of reporters and TSBD employees in the building.
The man in question doesn't appear to be wearing a suit and tie.
I think that rules out law enforcement, reporters and management of the TSBD.
This leaves the "manual" workers - a white, male manual worker, perhaps.
Looks like Mr Lovelady, though I wouldn't bet the house on it
Cf Reply #54 in the 'Who is this?' thread from last year-----------
Then there's this Lovelady-like fellow in the background (first floor, same film----Alyea):
(https://i.imgur.com/fwEiCRC.gif)
Definitely not just wearing a white tshirt!
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Looks like Mr Lovelady, though I wouldn't bet the house on it
Cf Reply #54 in the 'Who is this?' thread from last year-----------
Nice one Alan,
Didn't realise this had been dealt with (a bit before my time)
Really not convinced it's Lovelady. He seemed to be wearing the most distinctive shirt of anyone that day.
This guy looks a bit leaner as well.
Will check out that thread to see where it went.
Am looking for another piece of Alyea footage at the moment that appears to show another non-suit wearing chap on one of the higher floors. He was wearing a white/light coloured shirts and I had him down as Dougherty.
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;D
The Alyea footage I was looking for is actually the subject of the thread you directed me to.
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Nice one Alan,
Didn't realise this had been dealt with (a bit before my time)
Really not convinced it's Lovelady. He seemed to be wearing the most distinctive shirt of anyone that day.
It's maddening not to be able to make out any plaid pattern on that shirt-----------that would seal the deal
This guy looks a bit leaner as well.
I agree. He also seems to have more hair on top. Facially, however, I'm still seeing Mr Lovelady tbh........
Will check out that thread to see where it went.
I can save you the trouble, Mr O'Meara----------no one wanted to bite!
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;D
The Alyea footage I was looking for is actually the subject of the thread you directed me to.
Thumb1:
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(https://i.imgur.com/fwEiCRC.gif)
Mr X in this clip is behind Mr Ochus Campbell.
There is a small storage room in the vicinity (to the east) of where these gentlemen are standing.
We are approx. 10 minutes post-assassination here
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(https://i.imgur.com/fwEiCRC.gif)
IF this is indeed Mr Lovelady, then he will shortly pop back outside to have a cigarette (Hughes/Martin films)
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(https://i.imgur.com/fwEiCRC.gif)
IF this is indeed Mr Lovelady, then he will shortly pop back outside to have a cigarette (Hughes/Martin films)
I agree his facial features are similar to Lovelady's but there is definitely enough detail in the footage to show his check shirt.
The guy in the clip seems to be wearing a single coloured shirt, a quite dark colour.
And then, of course, there is this guy:
How many unrecognised "workers" are wondering around the TSBD after the building is locked down.
This is the guy I have down as Dougherty (and Rowland's man-with-rifle)
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Regarding the second unidentified man (in the white shirt/top).
This footage was taken on the sixth floor looking at the window between the stairway and the west elevator.
In the foreground we see Fritz listening to one of his men.
Behind them is the man I believe is Dougherty:
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, when the FBI men---I imagine it was who it was---he showed me his credentials, but he asked me who the manager was, and I told him, "Mr. Truly." He told me to go find him. Well, I didn't know where he was so I started from the first floor and Just started looking for him, and by the time I got to the sixth floor, they had found a gun and shells.
Mr. BALL - When you went up to the sixth floor, it was after they found the shotgun and shells?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir;
If it is Dougherty in the clip it must have been taken after the shells and rifle had been found.
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I agree his facial features are similar to Lovelady's but there is definitely enough detail in the footage to show his check shirt.
The guy in the clip seems to be wearing a single coloured shirt, a quite dark colour.
If it's not Mr Lovelady, then the only other realistic candidate is Mr Oswald. But I still lean much more to Mr Lovelady
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Regarding the second unidentified man (in the white shirt/top).
This footage was taken on the sixth floor looking at the window between the stairway and the west elevator.
In the foreground we see Fritz listening to one of his men.
Behind them is the man I believe is Dougherty:
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, when the FBI men---I imagine it was who it was---he showed me his credentials, but he asked me who the manager was, and I told him, "Mr. Truly." He told me to go find him. Well, I didn't know where he was so I started from the first floor and Just started looking for him, and by the time I got to the sixth floor, they had found a gun and shells.
Mr. BALL - When you went up to the sixth floor, it was after they found the shotgun and shells?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir;
If it is Dougherty in the clip it must have been taken after the shells and rifle had been found.
Mr Lovelady also went up to six around this time. I think it's probably him in both clips
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Mr Lovelady also went up to six around this time. I think it's probably him in both clips
One is wearing dark clothing and the other light clothing.
How does that work?
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One is wearing dark clothing and the other light clothing.
How does that work?
He took off his shirt
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This clip is from Tom Alyea's footage from inside the TSBD in the immediate aftermath of the assassination.
In it we see Baker and Truly. I believe the man in the dark suit/hat and glasses is Ochus Campbell (possibly).
Just behind him a man becomes partially visible for a second. Unlike the others he seems to be in work gear.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bvs3dc3v/Alyea-first-floor-ID.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
This is a close up of the man.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Y3wXWvR/Alyea-first-floor-ID-close.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
I wondered if anyone knew who he was.
If you look at the footage from the beginning, I think we can see a rectangular name plate and a badge above same as this person in front of the TSBD. I think that this person in front of the TSBD is not the same as the one we are looking for in Alyea film. Seems that the person in Alyea film is slender and missing a black bow tie but because of rectangular name plate I think that he belonged to DPD department or the same department as the person in front of TSBD.
(https://i.postimg.cc/90gSGDRJ/alyea.jpg)
And here is another person from the same department. So, seems that all three of them belonged to the same department.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DfjFnZjC/alyea2.jpg)
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If you look at the footage from the beginning, I think we can see a rectangular name plate and a badge above same as this person in front of the TSBD. I think that this person in front of the TSBD is not the same as the one we are looking for in Alyea film. Seems that the person in Alyea film is slender and missing a black bow tie but because of rectangular name plate I think that he belonged to DPD department or the same department as the person in front of TSBD.
(https://i.postimg.cc/90gSGDRJ/alyea.jpg)
And here is another person from the same department. So, seems that all three of them belonged to the same department.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DfjFnZjC/alyea2.jpg)
Hi Patrick,
That is a really fantastic spot.
I'm going to try and get a clear shot of the frame that shows the name plate but I believe you are correct.
It explains why the man is in the TSBD at this moment - he is a law enforcement officer.
I'm not convinced he is either of the men you have circled but I'm sure he will turn up in another pic.
Nice work
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(https://i.postimg.cc/SRMNKn8K/Screenshot-179.png) (https://postimages.org/)
This is as good as I could do but I think it clearly shows the name tag and, potentially, a badge above it.
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Hi Patrick,
That is a really fantastic spot.
I'm going to try and get a clear shot of the frame that shows the name plate but I believe you are correct.
It explains why the man is in the TSBD at this moment - he is a law enforcement officer.
I'm not convinced he is either of the men you have circled but I'm sure he will turn up in another pic.
Nice work
Thank you.
Most probably Alyea film guy was a member of Dallas Sheriff Department. I was searching through photos a lot but seems only they had light blue shirts and name tags above their right pockets.
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Thank you.
Most probably Alyea film guy was a member of Dallas Sheriff Department. I was searching through photos a lot but seems only they had light blue shirts and name tags above their right pockets.
This obviously cannot be just the rectangular name tag, it needs to be name tag + badge------------or even just badge on its own:
(https://i.imgur.com/jAAZ6Ju.jpg)
But why would the badge be over his right breast pocket instead of his left?
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This obviously cannot be just the rectangular name tag, it needs to be name tag + badge------------or even just badge on its own:
(https://i.imgur.com/jAAZ6Ju.jpg)
But why would the badge be over his right breast pocket instead of his left?
Well, we do not know what exactly it is but I am sure it is a good starting point if you want to go through the photos and videos again and again.
While searching for Alyea guy I found the color photo guy. He was member of Dallas County Sheriff Department, Alvin Al Maddox who was later responsible for Jack Ruby claiming that Ruby gave him a paper writing confessing that mafia ordered Ruby to kill Oswald.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W3pMhpFd/alyea.jpg)
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Well, we do not know what exactly it is but I am sure it is a good starting point if you want to go through the photos and videos again and again.
Absolutely, Mr Jackson---and as Mr O'Meara said this detail on our man in Alyea was a fantastic spot (and not your first on this forum!) Thumb1:
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Absolutely, Mr Jackson---and as Mr O'Meara said this detail on our man in Alyea was a fantastic spot (and not your first on this forum!) Thumb1:
Thank you Alan.
I was very sad and devastated when forum was hacked back in 2018. Many new finds and great topics disappeared.
But it is fascinating that even 58 years later we are getting new photos and new details to research.
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Came across this chap in another Alyea clip.
Might be the same guy, hard to tell as the quality is quite poor.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MH75nVvy/Screenshot-184.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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He appears to be wearing glasses in the small clip, I didn't see (and maybe I need glasses) anyone point this out. Does that exclude some people who it might have been?
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About 20 years ago, I claimed the man was OV Campbell. Two years ago, I received this photo of Campbell. Same guy.
(https://i.ibb.co/9sLmCkf/Campbell-OV-From-Casey.jpg)