JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Frederick Clements on September 22, 2020, 11:29:22 AM
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If you look at the footage, one can notice as many have pointed out over the years that Fritz distances himself from Oswald. This made it easier for Ruby to shoot. Also his reaction seems a bit odd. He does not flinch but slowly turns around with an odd look on his face
So was it just incompetence or something more sinister? Did he know the shot was coming? Did he perhaps arrange for it himself?
Fred
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Did Fritz Know That Oswald Was Going To Be Shot?
YES!
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Did Fritz know? No, I don't think so but he could have guessed an attempt would be made to terminate Oswald. Death threats were called in by phone all during the weekend, apparently at least one made by Ruby (the operator recognized his voice) and one from a Committee of 100, which had voted 100 to 0 to whack the suspect. The FBI received similar warnings. Efforts - I believe by the sheriff's office - to shift the transfer to the county lock up to night time were unsuccessful for reasons unknown to me.
Harold Weisberg always said something like "Oswald was killed simply because the Dallas police allowed him to get killed." Despite the presence of what...70 officers in the parking garage, nobody seemed to notice Ruby slipping in and hiding among the reporters. Which is strange, because many of them knew the man and frequented his club for free drinks. Yet he wasn't shown the door nor frisked or guarded, which should have been done as he was known for carrying a concealed weapon.
Oswald's death was most unfortunate. He had all the answers. This Forum wouldn't exist had he lived to stand trial.
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Did Fritz Know That Oswald Was Going To Be Shot?
Why should he? He didn't need to.
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Did Fritz know? No, I don't think so but he could have guessed an attempt would be made to terminate Oswald. Death threats were called in by phone all during the weekend, apparently at least one made by Ruby (the operator recognized his voice) and one from a Committee of 100, which had voted 100 to 0 to whack the suspect. The FBI received similar warnings. Efforts - I believe by the sheriff's office - to shift the transfer to the county lock up to night time were unsuccessful for reasons unknown to me.
Harold Weisberg always said something like "Oswald was killed simply because the Dallas police allowed him to get killed." Despite the presence of what...70 officers in the parking garage, nobody seemed to notice Ruby slipping in and hiding among the reporters. Which is strange, because many of them knew the man and frequented his club for free drinks. Yet he wasn't shown the door nor frisked or guarded, which should have been done as he was known for carrying a concealed weapon.
Oswald's death was most unfortunate. He had all the answers. This Forum wouldn't exist had he lived to stand trial.
Oswald's death was most unfortunate. He had all the answers.
I doubt that Lee had "all of the answers....BUT he definitely would have cleared himself and pointed the finger at those who had made him a "Patsy".
This Forum wouldn't exist had he lived to stand trial.
That is absolutely a fact!..... And I'm sure the whole world would be a very different place than it is today, if the truth had surfaced in the weeks and months following the coup d'-etat .....There would be no building in Wash D.C. named in honor of J. Edgar Hoover....and there would be no monuments to LBJ......
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Oswald's death was most unfortunate. He had all the answers.
I doubt that Lee had "all of the answers....BUT he definitely would have cleared himself and pointed the finger at those who had made him a "Patsy".
This Forum wouldn't exist had he lived to stand trial.
That is absolutely a fact!..... And I'm sure the whole world would be a very different place than it is today, if the truth had surfaced in the weeks and months following the coup d'-etat .....There would be no building in Wash D.C. named in honor of J. Edgar Hoover....and there would be no monuments to LBJ......
Hi Walt,
I agree, Oswald would not have all the answers, that was an oversimplification on my part, an unintended mistake. But he could have cleared up many of the issues we discuss today, for instance the curtain rod story, why he decided to goo to the movies and change seats all the time, did he hire people to pose as Secret Service agents on the knoll and behind the TSBD. Etc.
Some say the FBI was instrumental in the cover up, the way they changed witness statements and all. Others think Hoover knew what was about to happen and did nothing to stop it. There is this FBI teletype warning of an assassination attempt and nothing was done about it:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/9d/ee/fd9deed849eae3c3f4950bbe3548c1c1.jpg)
What was this "militant revolutionary group?"
About the involvement of LBJ....I am not sure. Of course he benefited the most, but he got sucked into the Vietnam war and it unnerved him so much he didn't seek reelection. And he asked Hoover: were any shots directed at me? That pretty much rules him out, unless he was pretending not to know anything.
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Thanks Walt . Fritz's behavior is indeed quite suspicious.
Fred
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Thanks for the replies Joffrey and Jerry.
Fred
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Hi Walt,
I agree, Oswald would not have all the answers, that was an oversimplification on my part, an unintended mistake. But he could have cleared up many of the issues we discuss today, for instance the curtain rod story, why he decided to goo to the movies and change seats all the time, did he hire people to pose as Secret Service agents on the knoll and behind the TSBD. Etc.
Some say the FBI was instrumental in the cover up, the way they changed witness statements and all. Others think Hoover knew what was about to happen and did nothing to stop it. There is this FBI teletype warning of an assassination attempt and nothing was done about it:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/9d/ee/fd9deed849eae3c3f4950bbe3548c1c1.jpg)
What was this "militant revolutionary group?"
About the involvement of LBJ....I am not sure. Of course he benefited the most, but he got sucked into the Vietnam war and it unnerved him so much he didn't seek reelection. And he asked Hoover: were any shots directed at me? That pretty much rules him out, unless he was pretending not to know anything.
Hi Joffrey ..... Oh Boy!!... You seem to revel in opening these "cans of worms."
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/9d/ee/fd9deed849eae3c3f4950bbe3548c1c1.jpg)
Please LOOK at this " Official FBI Teletype".... o you actually believe that this was sent from the "DIRECTOR" ( Hoover) in FBI Headquarters in Washington DC ??
It seems obvious to me that this telex was created by a person who had trouble spelling. ( Do you know someone involved in this that was a poor speller?)
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It seems obvious to me that this telex was created by a person who had trouble spelling.
It was indeed. His name was William Walter.
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It was indeed. His name was William Walter.
( Do you know someone involved in this that was a poor speller?)
Who???..... Is William Walter? And how was he involved?
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( Do you know someone involved in this that was a poor speller?)
Who???..... Is William Walter? And how was he involved?
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Civil%20Actions/JFK%20Appeals%20FOIA%20Chrono/Folder%2038%2004-16-79/38-060.pdf
Scroll down for Walter interview
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Hi Joffrey ..... Oh Boy!!... You seem to revel in opening these "cans of worms."
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/9d/ee/fd9deed849eae3c3f4950bbe3548c1c1.jpg)
Please LOOK at this " Official FBI Teletype".... o you actually believe that this was sent from the "DIRECTOR" ( Hoover) in FBI Headquarters in Washington DC ??
It seems obvious to me that this telex was created by a person who had trouble spelling. ( Do you know someone involved in this that was a poor speller?)
Not necessarily a poor speller, but not very proficient in typing perhaps.
This document - if genuine - indicates that the President was not assassinated by a lone malcontent with no motive at all, but more likely by this militant revolutionary group. So who were they? Could it be one of the radical anti-Castro organizations? Or people linked to Milteer, although he was not, as far as I know, radical nor revolutionary.
This is interesting about this teletype warning and Mr. Walter's role:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Alert%20to%20JFK%20Assassination/Item%2002.pdf
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(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/walter-hsca-1.jpg)
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/walter-hsca-2.jpg)
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/walter-hsca-3.jpg)
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Not necessarily a poor speller, but not very proficient in typing perhaps.
This document - if genuine - indicates that the President was not assassinated by a lone malcontent with no motive at all, but more likely by this militant revolutionary group. So who were they? Could it be one of the radical anti-Castro organizations? Or people linked to Milteer, although he was not, as far as I know, radical nor revolutionary.
This is interesting about this teletype warning and Mr. Walter's role:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Alert%20to%20JFK%20Assassination/Item%2002.pdf
I'll ask again....Do you actually believe that this was sent from the "DIRECTOR" ( Hoover) in FBI Headquarters in Washington DC ??
This document - if genuine - indicates that the President was not assassinated by a lone malcontent with no motive at all,
The document is a genuine PHOTO COPY of the telex that William Walter received in the NO FBI office at 1:45 am Do yo think Hoover was up and sending a poorly worded and badly spelled telex at 1:45 am??
The telex is genuine but it did not come from Hoover, nor did it originate in Washington DC.....
Lee Oswald sent that telex from the telex machine in the Texas School Book Depository.......He was desperately trying to thwart the Coup d etat
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(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/walter-hsca-1.jpg)
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/walter-hsca-2.jpg)
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/walter-hsca-3.jpg)
William Walther worked for the FBI ( Director JE Hoover) .... Do you think Walther didn't understand the consequences he faced, if he didn't follow the Directors directions??
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I'll ask again....Do you actually believe that this was sent from the "DIRECTOR" ( Hoover) in FBI Headquarters in Washington DC ??
This document - if genuine - indicates that the President was not assassinated by a lone malcontent with no motive at all,
The document is a genuine PHOTO COPY of the telex that William Walter received in the NO FBI office at 1:45 am Do yo think Hoover was up and sending a poorly worded and badly spelled telex at 1:45 am??
The telex is genuine but it did not come from Hoover, nor did it originate in Washington DC.....
Lee Oswald sent that telex from the telex machine in the Texas School Book Depository.......He was desperately trying to thwart the Coup d etat
I think what happened is explained in the documents John Iacoletti posted. The teletype came in during Walter's shift, he made notes of it and called agents, and put the original on the desk of his superior. All originals later 'disappeared' so spare the Bureau the embarrassment. The image of the FBI was very important to Director Hoover, so that makes sense and fits in with what we already know.
Walter later reconstructed the teletype using his notes, and notice that he states he is poor at typing, not at spelling, just as I very cleverly deduced. I have been typing for the last 35 years or so and still think it's a As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day? It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair. His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate. Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare. There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.' to get it right the first time. Especially in a foreign language.
Anyway, more important is the question who warned FBI HQ in Washington about the assassination attempt in Dallas and the militant revolutionary groups? Harold Weisberg, a researcher I hold in high esteem, writes that Oswald became an FBI informant on June 26, 1962, tasked with infiltration of radical Cuban organizations. Unfortunately he doesn't list a source for his statement.
Remember the assassination attempts in Miami and Chicago? The FBI received warnings about these too, but I can not recall how or by whom.
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I think what happened is explained in the documents John Iacoletti posted. The teletype came in during Walter's shift, he made notes of it and called agents, and put the original on the desk of his superior. All originals later 'disappeared' so spare the Bureau the embarrassment. The image of the FBI was very important to Director Hoover, so that makes sense and fits in with what we already know.
Walter later reconstructed the teletype using his notes, and notice that he states he is poor at typing, not at spelling, just as I very cleverly deduced. I have been typing for the last 35 years or so and still think it's a As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day? It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair. His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate. Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare. There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.' to get it right the first time. Especially in a foreign language.
Anyway, more important is the question who warned FBI HQ in Washington about the assassination attempt in Dallas and the militant revolutionary groups? Harold Weisberg, a researcher I hold in high esteem, writes that Oswald became an FBI informant on June 26, 1962, tasked with infiltration of radical Cuban organizations. Unfortunately he doesn't list a source for his statement.
Remember the assassination attempts in Miami and Chicago? The FBI received warnings about these too, but I can not recall how or by whom.
who warned FBI HQ in Washington about the assassination attempt in Dallas and the militant revolutionary groups? Harold Weisberg, a researcher I hold in high esteem, writes that Oswald became an FBI informant on June 26, 1962, tasked with infiltration of radical Cuban organizations.
Did the telex go to Washington?? It certainly didn't originate in Washington?
The answer to your question: " who warned FBI HQ in Washington about the assassination attempt in Dallas and the militant revolutionary groups?"
Lee H. Oswald
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Not necessarily a poor speller, but not very proficient in typing perhaps.
This document - if genuine - indicates that the President was not assassinated by a lone malcontent with no motive at all, but more likely by this militant revolutionary group. So who were they? Could it be one of the radical anti-Castro organizations? Or people linked to Milteer, although he was not, as far as I know, radical nor revolutionary.
This is interesting about this teletype warning and Mr. Walter's role:
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Alert%20to%20JFK%20Assassination/Item%2002.pdf
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Alert%20to%20JFK%20Assassination/Item%2002.pdf
Is it my imagination.....OR.....Has someone scrawled a "Happy Face" icon in the first line of the telex , after the misspelled word "assisinate" ??
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I think what happened is explained in the documents John Iacoletti posted. The teletype came in during Walter's shift, he made notes of it and called agents, and put the original on the desk of his superior. All originals later 'disappeared' so spare the Bureau the embarrassment. The image of the FBI was very important to Director Hoover, so that makes sense and fits in with what we already know.
Walter later reconstructed the teletype using his notes, and notice that he states he is poor at typing, not at spelling, just as I very cleverly deduced. I have been typing for the last 35 years or so and still think it's a As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day? It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair. His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate. Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare. There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.' to get it right the first time. Especially in a foreign language.
Anyway, more important is the question who warned FBI HQ in Washington about the assassination attempt in Dallas and the militant revolutionary groups? Harold Weisberg, a researcher I hold in high esteem, writes that Oswald became an FBI informant on June 26, 1962, tasked with infiltration of radical Cuban organizations. Unfortunately he doesn't list a source for his statement.
Remember the assassination attempts in Miami and Chicago? The FBI received warnings about these too, but I can not recall how or by whom.
I think what happened is explained in the documents John Iacoletti posted.
If you're willing and comfortable in accepting BS like the testimony of Walther's as if it is the truth, then you're not serious about finding the truth about the coup d etat.
Oswald became an FBI informant on June 26, 1962, tasked with infiltration of radical Cuban organizations.
Lee Oswald believed that he was an undercover agent for the FBI. He simply didn't know that the FBI agent who was his handler was a key conspirator in the plot to assassinate JFK. That blind trust in the FBI lead to his lynching.....
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If you're willing and comfortable in accepting BS like the testimony of Walther's as if it is the truth, then you're not serious about finding the truth about the coup d etat.
Yeah, you should instead believe the stuff that Walt makes up.
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Yeah, you should instead believe the stuff that Walt makes up.
People should learn to use their God given brain...... And stop trying to find a comfortable fairy tale, that they can live with.
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Yeah, you should instead believe the stuff that Walt makes up.
Mr Cakebread seems to have an aversion to facts. :)
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Mr Cakebread seems to have an aversion to facts. :)
What facts?....
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What facts?....
Indeed, Mr Cakebread.
Though, perhaps, you made an error in punctuation?
"What? Facts?"
Now, please tell us more about Lee Oswald.
But, this time with facts.
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Indeed, Mr Cakebread.
Though, perhaps, you made an error in punctuation?
"What? Facts?"
Now, please tell us more about Lee Oswald.
But, this time with facts.
You know it all..... Just open your eyes and face the truth....
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Did Fritz Know That Oswald Was Going To Be Shot?
I don’t know. But Jim Leavelle didn’t know or he wouldn’t have worn his best white suite. He would have worn some overalls over a couple of garbage car lids.
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Did Fritz Know That Oswald Was Going To Be Shot?
I don’t know. But Jim Leavelle didn’t know or he wouldn’t have worn his best white suite. He would have worn some overalls over a couple of garbage car lids.
LOL.... but he did say to Oswald that if he got shot, he [Leavelle] hoped the shooter would be just as good a shot as Oswald, so he wouldn't get hurt. Talk about premonition...
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LOL.... but he did say to Oswald that if he got shot, he [Leavelle] hoped the shooter would be just as good a shot as Oswald, so he wouldn't get hurt. Talk about premonition...
It didn’t require Carnac the Magnificent to have this premonition. Oswald was very widely hated and the police were very nervous about this transfer. But did not do the one thing that would make it work. Ban the press from the building and tell no one about the transfer. But reporters convinced them that the police had to be open about everything involving Oswald.
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It didn’t require Carnac the Magnificent to have this premonition. Oswald was very widely hated and the police were very nervous about this transfer. But did not do the one thing that would make it work. Ban the press from the building and tell no one about the transfer. But reporters convinced them that the police had to be open about everything involving Oswald.
Mr Elliott: it's the fault of the press that Oswald was shot?
Really now, that's pretty rich. Please explain further.
So, the headline should have read:
"Police Chief, Sherrif, Powerless To Face Down Overwhelming Press Hordes; Oswald Murdered".
Ok. Got it.
Silly me. I thought the police and sherrif allowed the press unfettered access all weekend, so they could show off their capture of the " suspect" in record time, and perhaps take the focus off of the pathetic, failed efforts to protect..the godd@&n President of the United States.
And, there is the small matter of how Ruby got into the basement on Sunday morning, as well as into the Friday night Press ( that's the operative word there) conference, seeing as Jack was ...a reporter, you say?