JFK Assassination Forum

JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Thomas Graves on July 16, 2020, 03:40:15 PM

Title: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 16, 2020, 03:40:15 PM
James "I Never Met A Communist I Didn't Adore" DiEugenio at Eeek A Freak - Disinformation Forum says nobody should read this "piece of garbage".

IMHO, that's why everybody should read it!

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/why-oliver-stone-jfk-greatest-094033716.html

--  MWT   Walk:

PS  The only mistake I've found in the article is its stating Dean Andrews was a district attorney. He wasn't -- he was a run-of-the-mill lawyer.
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 16, 2020, 04:52:19 PM
An excerpt:

"The JFK assassination was the actual crime of the century. It changed America, and the events that surrounded it feel relevant today: civil rights, political division, fake news, deep suspicion of government."

No true words were ever spoken!

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Paul May on July 16, 2020, 05:16:18 PM
Anybody studying this event, CT or LN who puts Jim Garrison on the pedestal that DiEugenio still does isn’t worth reading. DiEugenio is a con artist. A deeply dark paranoid individual.
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Gerry Down on July 16, 2020, 07:58:53 PM
He's one sick puppy, alright.

He appears to be so pro-Communist and pro-Trump that I wouldn't be surprised to find out he works for KGB-boy Vladimir Putin! It's more likely, though, that he's "just" a gullible, America-hating "useful idiot".

Putin must love his xxx, and that of his xxxxbuddy, Oliver "I Admire Vladimir Putin And My Son Works or RT" Stone.

--  MWT  ;)

How can he be pro-Trump and america-hating at the same time?
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 16, 2020, 09:04:00 PM
How can he be pro-Trump and america-hating at the same time?

Gerry,

Are you pro-Trump?

If so, why?

Does Trump love America?

Do you?

--  MWT  ;)

PS  You have a typo.  (Nice hyphens, though)
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Royell Storing on July 16, 2020, 09:08:14 PM
  "Trump Derangement Syndrome" has turned the weak minded into Manchurian Candidates. They hear something is connected to Trump in Any manner what-so-ever and they Immediately just go "Off".  Very sad to witness those suffering from this affliction.
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 16, 2020, 09:11:10 PM
"Trump Derangement Syndrome" has turned the weak minded into Manchurian Candidates. They hear something is connected to Trump in Any manner what-so-ever and they Immediately just go "Off".  Very sad to witness those suffering from this affliction.

Dear Royell,

Do you, like Trump, trust KGB-boy Vladimir Putin more than our own intelligence agencies?

If so, did watching the movie (sic) JFK have anything to do with your getting that way?

Rush To Judgement by Mark "Subsidized by the CPUSA" Lane?

Oswald, Assassin or Fall Guy? by Joachim "Commie" Joesten?

Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong?

Jefferson Morley's website, "JFK Facts" (sic)? (Have you read my one-star Amazon review of his execrable book, The Ghost?)

Dumbo Duh's website "Kennedy's 'n Kings"?

Engels' and Marx's The Communist Manifesto?

Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler?

Machiavelli's The Prince?

Donald Trump's The Art of the 70% Deal?

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Jerry Freeman on July 18, 2020, 12:33:17 AM
PS  You have a typo.
So do you...I think.
No true words were ever spoken!
Perhaps you meant 'no truer words were ever spoken'?  ;)
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Jerry Freeman on July 18, 2020, 01:18:33 AM
Quote
Garrison deduced a theory, then he marshaled his facts
That sounds strangely familiar :-\
30 years later and still slamming a film they don't even show anymore.
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 18, 2020, 01:25:49 AM
So do you...I think.  Perhaps you meant 'no truer words were ever spoken'?  ;)

Dear Gerald,

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ....

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 18, 2020, 01:30:17 AM
That sounds strangely familiar :-\
30 years later and still slamming a film they don't even show anymore.

But which influenced SO many gullible people (myself included), led to SO many anti-MIICC tinfoil hat conspiracy theories (which ultimately helped Putin install his useful idiot Trump as our president), and even motivated Congress to establish the ARRB (or some-such thing).

--  MWT  ;)

*MIICC = Military Industrial Intelligence Community Complex, aka "Deep State"
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 18, 2020, 07:54:53 AM
Oh, and which by the way had its origins in a KGB disinfo article placed in a Communist-owned Italian newspaper in 1967 ...

https://staging.quillette.com/2018/09/27/the-soviets-and-the-jfk-conspiracy-theorists/

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Tom Scully on July 18, 2020, 09:50:52 PM
That sounds strangely familiar :-\
30 years later and still slamming a film they don't even show anymore.

Facts don't matter, belief matters.

The major motion picture, JFK, is associated with a release date of December 21, 1991.:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102138/?ref_=nv_sr_1

Quote
http://www.leagle.com/decision/19921409806FSupp603_11312/RUSSO%20v.%20CONDE%20NAST%20PUBLICATIONS
Perry RUSSO v. CONDE NAST PUBLICATIONS d/b/a Gentlemen’s Quarterly.
United States District Court, E.D. Louisiana.
November 17, 1992
……
UNDISPUTED FACTUAL BACKGROUND:

In its January, 1992 issue, GQ Magazine published an article entitled “The Case Against Jim Garrison” (hereafter the “GQ article”). The GQ article was written by Nicholas B. Lemann, a New Orleans native and winner of numerous awards for his books and articles. The GQ article was a personal memoir1 of Lemann’s recollections of growing up in New Orleans during District Attorney Jim Garrison’s prosecution of Clay Shaw for allegedly conspiring to assassinate JFK.

The 1991 movie release, JFK sparked renewed interest in the assassination as well as the prosecution itself of Clay Shaw. The film was purportedly based on Garrison’s book, On the Trail of Assassins, and sympathetically portrayed Garrison.

The GQ article published by Lemann took a different slant, expressing his view that Shaw’s prosecution was built on flimsy evidence and was a tremendous embarrassment to the city.2 The thrust of Lemann’s article was his opinion countering that expressed by Stone in his film release JFK, to wit:

(See Letters to GQ, http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Stone%20Oliver%20JFK%20Movie/Gentleman's%20Quarterly/Item%2002.pdf
An excerpt from the introduction to Lemann’s lengthy response.:
…Printing both sides of the story has never been a
fundamental rule of magazine journalism.
Magazines are supposed to be feisty and opin-
ionated. So it’s with a sense of futility that I
rebut Sklar’s points….

Clay Shaw knew this the week after he was arrested. Ms. Mellen, or even Garrison's auto-biography editor and Oliver Stone's co-screen play writer, Zachary Sklar, were not informed of this by Jim Garrison.:

(http://jfkforum.com/images/BaldwinFirstCousinCarpenter.jpg)

Quote
https://charlierose.com/guests/11110
Zachary Sklar — Charlie Rosecharlierose.com › guests
Lists all of Zachary Sklar's appearances on the Charlie Rose program on ... Nicholas Lemann, David Denby, and Zachary Sklar debate Oliver Stone's movie ...

Quote
https://jfkfacts.org/provocative-prolific-joan-mellen/#comment-869590
Tom S. April 14, 2016 at 1:58 am

....I found something that Donald H Carpenter happened upon just before I did, and included it but buried it in
his book. It does not mesh with the two decades long, anti-Garrison campaign of Nicholas B Lemann, nor with Stone’s movie, and it was Joan Mellen who named Garrison’s wife’s cousins, one of which was Mrs. Garrison’s godfather, and declared to Rex Bradford, “these are the CIA people.” Ms. Mellen left at that. DiEugenio has been informed and has buried his head in the sand. Shaw was told about Garrison’s conflict from the godfather/cousin himself, David Baldwin who Shaw hired fresh from his dismissal from CIA in India where he was serving as a covert agent. Shaw never raised this as an issue, and neither did Garrison.

Ironically, Garrison and Ms. Mellen’s “CIA people” appear to have had the ability to settle their differences after a family Thanksgiving gathering, if they actually did have differences and were not all following instructions to perform a limited hangout......

Once I discovered the Garrison "experts" were clueless, and the reaction of "the community" is to circle the wagons, I better understood how "Trump 45" could be "a thing".

Quote
https://jfkfacts.org/provocative-prolific-joan-mellen/#comment-869223
Tom S. - April 12, 2016 at 1:25 pm

Although I am credited as a contributor to Ms. Mellen’s book, “Our Man in Haiti,” my entire body of research results influence me to share an opinion that the description of Joan Mellen in this article is overdone….

She first met Jim Garrison just months after the Clay Shaw trial in 1969 and described interviewing more than 1200 people before publishing her book on Jim Garrison, “Farewell to Justice.”

More than 30 years after she first met Jim Garrison and in addition to much other research and interviewing 1200 people, this was the crux and the emphasis of Joan Mellen’s presentation on the best supported CIA influences/interference on Garrison’s investigation and his prosecution of Clay Shaw.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen
Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK’s Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006. Tyler Weaver provided the introduction, and the interview was conducted by Rex Bradford.
…….
REX: I – I think –

JOAN: – when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people….


Using only internet resources and in the course of a couple of weeks of part time research I shared in comments on this website, (see- https://jfkfacts.org/assassination/review/who-was-the-only-man-to-ever-face-legal-charges-in-jfks-assassination/#comment-856847 )
I found these details, not published or mentioned, ever, by Joan Mellen.

In the course of attempting to determine if my new fact checked research details were actually original, I found identical details, by author of a biography of Clay Shaw, Donald H Carpenter.

From Joan Mellen’s book :

https://books.google.com/books?id=9mQtAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT138&lpg=PT138&dq=%22joan+mellen%22+stephen+lemann&source=bl&ots=JQ0cQ7W_xe&sig=zjEbm-HJgiFBiqsZJ_VSNijJh0U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAvsOe1YnMAhVLHD4KHdSUDKoQ6AEIQjAF#v=onepage&q=%22joan%20mellen%22%20stephen%20lemann&f=false


The best face I can put on this is that Garrison misled and failed to disclose to his friend, Joan Mellen, and editor of his own book, the co-writer of the JFK the movie screenplay, Zachary Sklar.

The most troubling thing I’ve learned is that almost no one seems to appreciate being exposed to this new information. They already knew what they knew and indicate a preference of not having to consider Garrison’s actual proximity to those even he described as CIA sponsored adversaries.

Garrison’s silence on this also provided an opening (unanswered by Garrison) for the belligerent nephew of Stepen B. Lemann who is also the step-nephew of wife of Lee Garrison’s first cousin and godfather David Baldwin.:

continued……

Reply

Quote
https://jfkfacts.org/provocative-prolific-joan-mellen/#comment-869321
Tom S. April 12, 2016 at 9:18 pm

Bogman, how could Garrison go “a little mad with the spook meddling?”
The point I attempted to make comparing Joan Mellen’s version….”these were the CIA people,”
and Garrison only describing Stephen B Lemann in his complaint to the FCC, (June, 1967) as
counsel to WDSU who is “known in the past to have distributed Central Intelligence Agency funds,”
and Garrison worked several year under former NODA Leon Hubert, Jr. with David Baldwin’s brother,
Edward, another first cousin of Garrison’s wife.

Where is Garrison’s mention of Stephen B Lemann’s hiring
of Father Machann out of the Catholic priesthood and into
a job as a NOLA mental health field coordinator?
(see- https://jfkfacts.org/assassination/news/obama-prepares-future-critics-dwell-past/#comment-864459 )
Garrison said what now appears suspiciously on anything specific about any of the activities of his wife’s family members and their in-laws.

Edward’s law partner wrote a letter to CIA’s Helms requesting to be put on “the list.”
Between them, Stephen B. Lemann and Edward Baldwin were the principle CIA lawyers Garrison
was accusing of tampering with his witnesses, making promises to protect them from Garrison.


If the CIA interference angle was overdone, now we know it was because Garrison had an undisclosed
connection to the “CIA lawyers” and to the closest CIA link to Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and Shaw
knew all this from late in the first week of his arrest.


The problem I observe is the refusal to carefully consider what actually happened, without the strong influences
of Joan Mellen, Zachary Sklar, Oliver Stone, and Garrison himself.

None of them actually provided any clearer picture of what was going than Clay Shaw or Nicholas
Lemann have, and that is the basis for my criticism.

I’m happy George can be confident the American people would not have been better informed before
1979 if Garrison had never opened his mouth or made an arrest. I cannot know that, so I’m glad for
George that he can assert that, here.

Why is it not a consideration that Garrison and Shaw simply put on a performance, as they were instructed to?
You may not like it but it is a plausible explanation for Garrison’s connections to his purported antagnoists never coming to light. I find it hard to believe Mellen and Sklar were in
on Garrison and his ex-wife’s non-disclosure. The evidence is there that Garrison played Mellen, Sklar, and as a result, also Stone.


In one sentence, all of the names that stand out, Stephen B Lemann, Edward Baldwin, Lemann’s nephew,
Nicholas, and in the background, Shaw’s friend and ex-covert CIA agent David Baldwin, described by Joan Mellen as the CIA people, were actually close relatives of Garrison’s wife, or their in-laws.

Examine your indifference to these connections being hidden, until presented without comment in 2014
in Donald H Carpenter’s book. I think the true reason there is no reaction or denial is that people
have too much invested in the JFK the movie narrative, and the people who got closest to Garrison and wrote books and made a movie are left with egg on their faces.

Reply

Garrison writes to the FCC Commissioner :

(http://jfkforum.com/images/LemannWDSUFCC022067.jpg)

https://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62423&search=garrison_and+rosel#relPageId=176&tab=page
(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonFCCwdsuCIA.jpg)

Seven years later, Nicholas Lemann, nephew of that "attorney closely connected with the station.", writes about Garrison in "The Crimson:
and here is Nicholas B. Lemann, in 1991 :

(http://jfkforum.com/images/BaldwinLemannStepsisterCarpenter.jpg)

Nicholas B. Lemann, writing in GQ Magazine in December, 1991 :
(http://jfkforum.com/images/LemannSticksHisNeckOutStoneDoesNotAXE.jpg)

Quote
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1974/2/6/the-rise-and-fall-of-big/
The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G. | News |
Feb 6, 1974 - The Rise and Fall of Big Jim G. Politics ... Garrison became the district attorney in New Orleans in 1962, winning a ... The Crimson Brand Studio.
By Nicholas Lemann

(http://jfkforum.com/images/BaldwinGarrisonReactionMcAdams.jpg)

Quote
https://jfkfacts.org/comment-of-the-week-15/#comment-856783
Tom S. - February 7, 2016 at 11:40 am

Photon’s and to a lesser extent, Dr. McAdams’s reactions to the presentation of Garrison – Shaw related details over the past three weeks are illuminating and troubling. Dean Nicholas B. Lemann looks even
worse, and contemplating Photon’s comments, it is surprising that this is possible.

Was Tom Purivs “on to something?”

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20298&p=275862
Thomas H. Purvis – Posted 18 July 2013
As was long ago indicated on this forum, the Clay Shaw/Garrison case was little more than a massive “smoke screen”…

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20298&p=275914
Posted 19 July 2013
……
The “power structure” within New Orleans lies not with those who are currently in what is some temporary political position.

It lies with those who possess the capability to place these persons in the various political positions.

Therefore, Jim Garrison, not unlike any other political figure in New Orleans, did what he was instructed to do or else he suffered the consequences.

Now, if one could only resolve exactly who, within the deep south city of New Orleans, LA, would have reason to replace JFK.

Hint:…
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Joe Elliott on July 19, 2020, 12:32:44 AM

Oliver Stone: “I’ve created a counter-myth to the official one – is that so bad?”

Liars are always looking for excuses for their lies. So they can justify the lies to others. So they can justify the lies to themselves. Anyone who makes this kind of statement is a classic red flag. It is no big coincidence that some of the biggest liars of all time, the Nazis, saw all others as big time liars, including the liberal press of the West. Is there a parallel with Donald Trump here? I think so.

Of course, if what us LNers support is a pack of lies, no rational person would respond with their own pack of lies. You just respond with the truth.

If any LNer on this board were ever to say he is creating counter myths to combat the lies of the CTers, I would urge him to go find another cause to support. We don’t need his help. I think other LNers would feel the same.

If John McAdams or if Vincent Bugliosi ever made such a statement, LNers would drop them as their top spokemen. But Oliver Stone can say that and still be a big hero to many CTers. That says something about LNers and CTers.
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: John Tonkovich on July 19, 2020, 06:41:14 PM
Why would anyone try to learn history from...a film?

Also, why is Mr. Graves even posting about an individual on another forum?
How does this add to the "General Discussion and Debate"?
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 19, 2020, 06:46:51 PM
Why would anyone try to learn history from...a film?

Also, why is Mr. Graves even posting about an individual on another forum?
How does this add to the "General Discussion and Debate"?

Mr. Tonkovich,

Your question should have been, "How does one not get brainwashed by Russian disinformation in a blockbuster "historical" movie (sic) by Oliver "I Admire Vladimir Putin and My Son Works for RT" Stone?

If, in JFK, Stone knowingly created and put onto the silver screen a "counter myth," shouldn't he have labeled it as such for the audience, rather than presenting it as factual?

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: John Tonkovich on July 19, 2020, 08:21:15 PM
Mr. Tonkovich,

Your question should have been, "How does one not get brainwashed by Russian disinformation in a blockbuster "historical" movie (sic) by Oliver "I Admire Vladimir Putin and My Son Works for RT" Stone?

If, in JFK, Stone knowingly created and put onto the silver screen a "counter myth," shouldn't he have labeled it as such for the audience, rather than presenting it as factual?

--  MWT  ;)
So, you were "fooled" by Oliver Stone?

There's this idea, uh, "critical thinking"?
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Tom Scully on July 20, 2020, 07:14:23 AM
So, you were "fooled" by Oliver Stone?

There's this idea, uh, "critical thinking"?

Is the actual problem there are not enough threads like Tommy's, especially if no one seems interested in countering "face saving" BS?

John, the problem is that Garrison conned what has become a cult of personality and DiEugenio advises Oliver Stone. Earlier in this thread, I supported my observation that Clay Shaw, Nicholas Lemann, and Jim Garrison kept the same secret.... that Garrison's father-in-law was the uncle of Garrison "CIA nemesis" David Baldwin and his brother Edward, and David happened to be married to Mildred Lyons, whose mother, Mildred Crumb Lyons Lemann was Nicholas's grandmother, and was also the step-mother of Nicholas's father, Thomas, and Garrison's "WDSU outside counsel-CIA paymaster, Stephen B. Lemann. Stephen happened to give a break to a Dallas priest, down on his luck!



DiEugenio experiences almost no dissent where he posts most prominently. He refuses to debate, but I've mocked his manipulative substitute for facts supported debate. I had made it clear, in a number of posts Jim could not have missed, 2-1/2 years before Jim posted this,
that the trigger for my interest in Garrison misleading his supporters and journalists was accidentally finding this in early 2016.:

(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonHaroldZieglerObit.jpg)

I found the obit above while searching for background on Clay Shaw's first CIA hire, David G Baldwin, III. My search terms were the family name of Adele Raworth, which was Ziegler, and the name of Adele's second husband, Raworth. So, learning that the Baldwin brothers, described by authors Joan Mellen and Jim DiEugenio as "the CIA people" and Garrison's WDSU-outside-counsel-known-to-distribute-CIA-funds-in-NOLA, Stephen B Lemann just happening to be David Baldwin's brother-in-law, and "journalist" Nicholas B. Lemann happening to be Stephen Lemann's nephew, I found the debate between Oliver Stone's screenplay partner Zachary Sklar and Nicholas B Lemann a billboard sized indicator that Jim Garrison had misled his autobiography editor, Jeremy Sklar and that Oliver Stone's researchers had failed to protect the two "JFK, the film" screenwriters and character casters from the deception of Garrison and his soon to be spouse for the second time, Elizabeth Ziegler Garrison!

Nicholas B Lemann's uncle happened to hire a former Dallas priest.

(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldFatherMachannStephenLemann.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/BaldwinDavidWedding1945.jpg)

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/S%20Disk/Stone%20Oliver%20JFK%20Movie/Gentleman%27s%20Quarterly/Item%2002.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/StoneJFKgqLettersSklarLemann.jpg)

Lemann's undisclosed conflicts of interests and stated belief he was free to mislead if writing a magazine piece, came in handy, a dozen years later.:

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_Graduate_School_of_Journalism
The Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism is the journalism school of Columbia University. It is located in Pulitzer Hall on Columbia's Morningside Heights campus in New York City.
.....
A doctoral program was established in 2001. In 2005, Nicholas Lemann, two years into his tenure as dean, created a second more specialized master's program leading to a master of arts degree.  .....

It didn't boost my confidence when I found that the most prominent print attack on Garrison himself, distributed in the same week as JFK, the Film,
was a guy who would soon become dean of a prestigious University Graduate School of Journalism, armed only with an undergraduate degree and a career of writing and reporting that included two other attacks on Jim Garrison. And, Lemann's first job after being undergraduate editor or the Harvard Crimson, was a desk next to Tom Bethell's.:

Quote
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2009/11/01/windmills-revisited/
Windmills, Revisited | Washington Monthly washingtonmonthly.com › Magazine
Nov 1, 2009 - by Nicholas Lemann ... conservativebut, when I joined the magazine, the other editorial employee besides me and Charlie was Tom Bethell, ...

Quote
http://www.aei.org/publication/new-orleans-mon-amour/

Mar 23, 2007 - Tom Bethell, dismayed by media coverage, traveled back to the beautiful and ....Later, I would go uptown to see Brown, who is a part-owner of the Maple Leaf Bar, a prominent venue for live music. But as a preliminary step I paid a call on an old acquaintance, Thomas B. Lemann , a lawyer well known to the city's establishment.. ... the consumption of oysters now requires a trek into the French Quarter.

Quote
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/thread-15982-post-124219.html#pid124219
Jim DiEugenio

#4  09-12-2018, 12:09 AM
Tom, I like you personally and I think you usually do good work and I defended you when people were attacking your approach at EF.

But I am at a loss to explain how you fell for Carpenter. This is a guy who writes for Max Holland. I stopped reading his book when I saw how he covered up the military record of Thrasher who Shaw worked for......

https://variety.com/2019/tv/global/agc-television-picks-up-worldwide-oliver-stones-jfk-destiny-betrayed-1203368818/
Oct 12, 2019 11:00pm PT
AGC Television Picks up Worldwide on Oliver Stone’s ‘JFK: Destiny Betrayed’
By John Hopewell
......
(http://jfkforum.com/images/DieugenioStoneVarietyGarrison.jpg)
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: John Tonkovich on July 20, 2020, 04:41:10 PM
Mr. Scully:
I am an admirer of the excellent work by the late Tom Purvis. And was a friend of his, and was fortunate enough to receive all of his newspaper publications.
Re: Garrison. Tom also exposed that whole scam.
I continue to enjoy and appreciate your excellent work.
Re: Mr. Graves. He tries to hijack most - if not all - threads with his USSR theory re: Oswald.
Ok. We got the message.
 Thanks.
P.S. Please continue sharing your work. Much appreciated
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on July 20, 2020, 05:33:12 PM

Oliver Stone: “I’ve created a counter-myth to the official one – is that so bad?”

Liars are always looking for excuses for their lies. So they can justify the lies to others. So they can justify the lies to themselves. Anyone who makes this kind of statement is a classic red flag. It is no big coincidence that some of the biggest liars of all time, the Nazis, saw all others as big time liars, including the liberal press of the West. Is there a parallel with Donald Trump here? I think so.

Of course, if what us LNers support is a pack of lies, no rational person would respond with their own pack of lies. You just respond with the truth.

If any LNer on this board were ever to say he is creating counter myths to combat the lies of the CTers, I would urge him to go find another cause to support. We don’t need us help. I think other LNers would feel the same.

If John McAdams or if Vincent Bugliosi ever made such a statement, LNers would drop them as their top spokemen. But Oliver Stone can say that and still be a big hero to many CTers. That says something about LNers and CTers.
Good post and key point about the "counter myth" defense of his moviet. I don't think it's just Stone with this view, the "ends justify any means" sort of approach.

Stone also said regarding the appalling abuses by Garrison in the Shaw trial that (paraphrasing) "Sometimes in a war you have to sacrifice people." The person being sacrificed in this instance being Shaw. Although there were others that Garrison attempted to "sacrifice."

So Stone knew that Shaw wasn't guilty but it was okay to "sacrifice" him for the larger war? What about Garrison, his hero? Did Garrison know this too? Does Stone think he did?
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Tom Scully on July 29, 2020, 07:04:07 AM
Mr. Scully:
I am an admirer of the excellent work by the late Tom Purvis. And was a friend of his, and was fortunate enough to receive all of his newspaper publications.
Re: Garrison. Tom also exposed that whole scam.
I continue to enjoy and appreciate your excellent work.
Re: Mr. Graves. He tries to hijack most - if not all - threads with his USSR theory re: Oswald.
Ok. We got the message.
 Thanks.
P.S. Please continue sharing your work. Much appreciated

John, I am sorry I've overlooked your post until now. I regret not paying closer attention to Tom Purvis's posts on the Ed Forum while he was living and could have been questioned.

I did not take notice until I looked into Ed Butler, Bill Stuckey, and Willard Robertson in fall, 2015. When I struggled to find an explanation for Willard Robertson's success and influence in NOLA and the curious contradiction of his financial backing of both Butler and Garrison, the posts of Tom Purvis were the only source that made any reliable sense of the contradictions.

I welcome any insight or research material you can add that might help persuade others that no one has come as close as Tom Purvis has to explaining Garrison!

Tom: You are citing connections/associations - mostly of a social type, e.g., weddings - among people and then concluding solely from these connections that these same individuals conspired/worked together to do "X" or "Y".

Showing that person "A" knew person "B" does not prove that "A" and "B" got together to do "X". You just show they may have known one another.

In my view, you have presented no evidence that the Garrison investigation was a deliberate sham - done with Garrison's cooperation - designed to divert attention away from a serious followup investigation.

As to Lambert and QK/ENCHANT: I think her characterization of it and Shaw's role (if any) was fair and honest. Mellen's criticism - and she's a Garrisonite - was wrong. But in my view nearly everything Mellen says about the assassination is wrong (the Trade Mart was NOT, in my opinion, run by CIA operatives). She is right that JFK was killed in Dallas, though.

Quote
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/4471-rex/
Tom Purvis - Posted 20 July, 2005
.....Maids....
....Of course, other Queens of COMUS include the daughter of General Robert E. Lee as well as the daughter of Jefferson Davis

Post #5:
Robert Howard: Would you care to elaborate?

Tom Purvis: Only the daughters of the uppermost "Southern Elite" secured such positions.
Steve, here is a much fairer response to your (unswayable) opinion than I think yours is to my presented facts.
I do not have a time machine or an outsized budget for this, such as the financial resources of a John Armstrong, but I believe I have achieved actual history altering results while, in reality, making very few conclusions about anything, save for the assertion, considering all of the known facts, no one has so far gotten this right, not Weissberg, Davy, Mellen, Stone, DiEugenio. Lambert, McAdams, Holland, Donald H Carpenter, Lesar, Morley, the extant released CIA records, or even the representations by Nicholas B. Lemann!
......
..............

The grave of NOLA CIA chief William P Burke's daughter.:

Quote
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/100520469/constance-ivy-fedoroff

Constance Ivy Burke.....
Daughter of Mrs. William P. Burke

Queen MKC 1950.

(http://jfkforum.com/images/WBSpencerBurkeBuffet.jpg)

Walker Spencer happened to be the Hill School and Princeton roommate of "the father of the U2", Phl Strong, and the best man of William P Burke.

Spencer and Strong were very likely close to C. Douglas Jackson at the Hill School in Pottstown....
Mr. Graves regularly reacts negatively to such interesting coincidences.
Quote
https://www.tor.com/2013/08/09/toby-barlow-cia-agent-babayaga/
I Never Knew My Grandfather, Only What He Pretended to Be ...
Aug 9, 2013 - My grandfather sits on a train, waiting. It is early spring, 1937. His name is Philip Strong and he has boarded here in the Hamburg station, ...

During the 1936 trip to Germany described by Phil Strong's grandson, the man who was Time, Inc. chief editor on the day JFK was shot, just happened to be a German American journalist who served as Strong's guide!

Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/us/30fuerbringer.html
Jul 30, 2008 - Otto Fuerbringer, the hard-driving, conservative-leaning managing editor of Time magazine during the political and social upheavals of the ...


(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonPhilStrongCDjackson.jpg)
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Jon Banks on August 06, 2020, 02:15:47 AM
Oliver Stone's JFK is actually the greatest political thriller Hollywood has ever made.

It's still an entertaining and politically relevant work of art despite the historical inaccuracies.
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Gerry Down on September 17, 2020, 11:03:04 PM
Oliver Stone's JFK is actually the greatest political thriller Hollywood has ever made.

It's still an entertaining and politically relevant work of art despite the historical inaccuracies.

True. And it made Oliver Stone a millionaire. Most people have never read the Warren Report but they probably (if over 30 years old) have seen the JFK movie.
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on September 20, 2020, 03:47:47 PM
John, I am sorry I've overlooked your post until now. I regret not paying closer attention to Tom Purvis's posts on the Ed Forum while he was living and could have been questioned.

I did not take notice until I looked into Ed Butler, Bill Stuckey, and Willard Robertson in fall, 2015. When I struggled to find an explanation for Willard Robertson's success and influence in NOLA and the curious contradiction of his financial backing of both Butler and Garrison, the posts of Tom Purvis were the only source that made any reliable sense of the contradictions.

I welcome any insight or research material you can add that might help persuade others that no one has come as close as Tom Purvis has to explaining Garrison!
Steve, here is a much fairer response to your (unswayable) opinion than I think yours is to my presented facts.
I do not have a time machine or an outsized budget for this, such as the financial resources of a John Armstrong, but I believe I have achieved actual history altering results while, in reality, making very few conclusions about anything, save for the assertion, considering all of the known facts, no one has so far gotten this right, not Weissberg, Davy, Mellen, Stone, DiEugenio. Lambert, McAdams, Holland, Donald H Carpenter, Lesar, Morley, the extant released CIA records, or even the representations by Nicholas B. Lemann!
......
..............


The grave of NOLA CIA chief William P Burke's daughter.:

(http://jfkforum.com/images/WBSpencerBurkeBuffet.jpg)

Walker Spencer happened to be the Hill School and Princeton roommate of "the father of the U2", Phl Strong, and the best man of William P Burke.

Spencer and Strong were very likely close to C. Douglas Jackson at the Hill School in Pottstown....
Mr. Graves regularly reacts negatively to such interesting coincidences.
During the 1936 trip to Germany described by Phil Strong's grandson, the man who was Time, Inc. chief editor on the day JFK was shot, just happened to be a German American journalist who served as Strong's guide!


(http://jfkforum.com/images/GarrisonPhilStrongCDjackson.jpg)

Fascinating....
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Michael T. Griffith on September 22, 2020, 08:09:53 PM
Oliver Stone's JFK could and should have been much more accurate. The movie gets a lot of things right, but it gets a lot of things wrong. Its general thrust is certainly correct, but many--not all, but many--of its supporting details are wrong. It is most unfortunate that Stone chose to trust people such as Fletcher Prouty. Dr. David Wrone tried to tell Stone that the script contained numerous factual errors that could be corrected without reducing the movie's power and thrust, but many of the errors that Wrone identified in the script were never fixed.
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Michael T. Griffith on September 29, 2020, 12:57:39 AM
It is very ironic that Oliver Stone's movie JFK was the reason I became interested in the JFK assassination. At the time, I was even more conservative than I am now. I had no use for JFK. I had even less use for Oliver Stone's politics. I could not have cared less that JFK had been assassinated. I believed that Oswald shot JFK and that Oswald was a Soviet agent (because Reader's Digest told me so). I viewed JFK conspiracy theorists as left-wing extremists.

When I saw the movie JFK, I thought to myself, "Even if JFK was a rotten president, we can't have elements in the government executing a president because they don't like his politics."

Of course, later I learned that JFK was not the left-winger that I had been led to believe he was.
Title: Re: DiEugenio Says Nobody Should Read This Article About Oliver Stone's "JFK" ...
Post by: Gerry Down on September 29, 2020, 01:26:17 AM
It is very ironic that Oliver Stone's movie JFK was the reason I became interested in the JFK assassination. At the time, I was even more conservative than I am now. I had no use for JFK. I had even less use for Oliver Stone's politics. I could not have cared less that JFK had been assassinated. I believed that Oswald shot JFK and that Oswald was a Soviet agent (because Reader's Digest told me so). I viewed JFK conspiracy theorists as left-wing extremists.

When I saw the movie JFK, I thought to myself, "Even if JFK was a rotten president, we can't have elements in the government executing a president because they don't like his politics."

Of course, later I learned that JFK was not the left-winger that I had been led to believe he was.

There seems to be conspiracy theorists on both side. The left say rich oil men killed Kennedy and the right say the marxist Castro killed Kennedy.