JFK Assassination Forum

JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Thomas Graves on July 13, 2020, 08:25:54 AM

Title: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 13, 2020, 08:25:54 AM
In no particular order:

The fact that the Stemmons sign obscured JFK and JBC from Zapruder's view while C399 was hitting both of them

The fact that Oswald missed the limo altogether with his first shot, but hit JFK on both of the following, farther-away shots

The fact that Dealey Plaza was a virtual echo chamber and caused many of the witnesses to mistake the number of shots and the number of seconds between them

The fact that JFK was sitting and wearing a tight and rigid corset which amplified his upper torso's "back and to the left" movement when the fatal bullet ripped through his brain (from behind) and caused a catastrophic neuromuscular reaction

The probable fact that the missed shot's hitting the traffic light mast arm caused the bullet to lose its copper jacket and therefore leave no traces of copper in the smear it left on the curb near James Tague

The fact that neither the Parkland nor the Bethesda doctors shaved the hair off of JFK's head to better reveal the nature of the fatal head wound

(Feel free to add to the list, all you reticent and not-so-reticent LNers out there)

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Dan O'meara on July 13, 2020, 10:49:01 AM
In no particular order:

The fact that JFK was sitting and wearing a tight and rigid corset which amplified his upper torso's "back and to the left" movement when the fatal bullet ripped through his brain (from behind) and caused a catastrophic neuromuscular reaction

--  MWT  ;)

Sorry Thomas but this is by far the most tinfoil aspect of the Kennedy assassination. I strongly suspect that no right-minded person who saw Kennedy's reaction to the head-shot would assume the shot came from behind. I believe that, without exception, they would assume the shot came from the front. The eye-watering contortions of the Jet Effect are surely the envy of the most ardent tinfoil fashionistas.
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Martin Weidmann on July 13, 2020, 02:32:52 PM
In no particular order:

The fact that the Stemmons sign obscured JFK and JBC from Zapruder's view while C399 was hitting both of them

The fact that Oswald missed the limo altogether with his first shot, but hit JFK on both of the following, farther-away shots

The fact that Dealey Plaza was a virtual echo chamber and caused many of the witnesses to mistake the number of shots and the number of seconds between them

The fact that JFK was sitting and wearing a tight and rigid corset which amplified his upper torso's "back and to the left" movement when the fatal bullet ripped through his brain (from behind) and caused a catastrophic neuromuscular reaction

The probable fact that the missed shot's hitting the traffic light mast arm caused the bullet to lose its copper jacket and therefore leave no traces of copper in the smear it left on the curb near James Tague

The fact that neither the Parkland nor the Bethesda doctors shaved the hair off of JFK's head to better reveal the nature of the fatal head wound

(Feel free to add to the list, all you reticent and not-so-reticent LNers out there)

--  MWT  ;)

The fact that the Stemmons sign obscured JFK and JBC from Zapruder's view while C399 was hitting both of them

Thomas, are you merely assuming that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 actually hit Kennedy and Connally or do you have actual evidence to support that statement?
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Michael T. Griffith on July 13, 2020, 02:51:49 PM
In no particular order:

The fact that the Stemmons sign obscured JFK and JBC from Zapruder's view while C399 was hitting both of them

The fact that Oswald missed the limo altogether with his first shot, but hit JFK on both of the following, farther-away shots

The fact that Dealey Plaza was a virtual echo chamber and caused many of the witnesses to mistake the number of shots and the number of seconds between them

The fact that JFK was sitting and wearing a tight and rigid corset which amplified his upper torso's "back and to the left" movement when the fatal bullet ripped through his brain (from behind) and caused a catastrophic neuromuscular reaction

The probable fact that the missed shot's hitting the traffic light mast arm caused the bullet to lose its copper jacket and therefore leave no traces of copper in the smear it left on the curb near James Tague

The fact that neither the Parkland nor the Bethesda doctors shaved the hair off of JFK's head to better reveal the nature of the fatal head wound.

Several of your "the fact that" statements are simply wrong. But, beyond the factual errors in your list, I find your posturing curious. You declare that people who believe Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy are tinfoil hatters. This is an interesting posture to assume given that you are in the decided minority of Americans who believe the lone-gunman theory. According to the most recent polling data we have on the subject, about 62% of Americans believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy, while about 34% do not, with about 4% undecided.

Furthermore, the last government investigation into the assassination, the House Select Committee on Assassinations, concluded that Kennedy was probably killed by a conspiracy, that there were four shots fired, that Jack Ruby had significant Mafia ties, that Ruby lied about his reason for shooting Oswald, that Ruby's shooting of Oswald resembled a Mafia hit to silence a witness or conspirator, that the WC ignored the clear weight of the evidence regarding how Ruby entered the DPD basement to shoot Oswald, that someone helped Ruby get into the DPD basement, that the DPD left doors unlocked along Ruby's route into the basement, that the DPD removed security from the area of the garage nearest the stairway that Ruby used to enter the basement shortly before Ruby entered the basement via that stairway, that someone was moving boxes in the sixth-floor window within 2 minutes after the shooting (obviously, it could not have been Oswald), that Silvia Odio's account of meeting with Oswald in company with two anti-Castro Cubans at a time when Oswald was supposedly in Mexico City is credible, that the committee established that Odio told several people about the Oswald visit before the assassination, etc., etc.

Finally, here is a very partial list of the "tinfoil hatted" public figures and experts who are on record as believing Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy:

* Dr. Joseph Dolce, an Army wound ballistics expert who played a leading role in the WC's wound ballistics tests.

* The late Senator Richard Schweiker.

* Senator Christopher Dodd, who served on the HSCA when he was a member of the House of Representatives.

* The late Senator Richard Russell, who served on the WC.

* Dr. Roger McCarthy, a ballistics expert with Failure Analysis, which assisted with the American Bar Association's mock Oswald trials in the 1990s.

* Robert MacNeil, formerly of the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour on PBS.

* Ambassador William Atwood, former Special Assistant to the U.S. delegation to the United Nations.

* President Lyndon Johnson. (We now know from the Johnson White House tapes that Johnson rejected the single-bullet theory. We also know from former Johnson aides and associates that privately Johnson said he believed Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy.)

* The late Dr. Milton Helpern, a renowned forensic pathologist and formerly the medical examiner for New York City.

* The late Dr. John Nichols, a forensic pathologist and formerly a professor of pathology at the University of Kansas.

* The late Carlos Hathcock, a Marine sniper who was widely regarded as the greatest sniper of the 20th century.

* The late Evelyn Lincoln, who was Kennedy's White House secretary.

* The late Dr. George Burkley, Kennedy's personal physician.

* Former Vice President Al Gore.

* Former Senator and Secretary of State John Kerry.

* Kennedy aides Dave Powers and Ken O'Donnell.

If anyone is wearing tinfoil hats, it is lone-gunman theorists.

Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Tim Nickerson on July 13, 2020, 03:09:35 PM
Several of your "the fact that" statements are simply wrong. But, beyond the factual errors in your list, I find your posturing curious. You declare that people who believe Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy are tinfoil hatters. This is an interesting posture to assume given that you are in the decided minority of Americans who believe the lone-gunman theory. According to the most recent polling data we have on the subject, about 62% of Americans believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy, while about 34% do not, with about 4% undecided.

Furthermore, the last government investigation into the assassination, the House Select Committee on Assassinations, concluded that Kennedy was probably killed by a conspiracy, that there were four shots fired, that Jack Ruby had significant Mafia ties, that Ruby lied about his reason for shooting Oswald, that Ruby's shooting of Oswald resembled a Mafia hit to silence a witness or conspirator, that the WC ignored the clear weight of the evidence regarding how Ruby entered the DPD basement to shoot Oswald, that someone helped Ruby get into the DPD basement, that the DPD left doors unlocked along Ruby's route into the base, that the DPD removed security from the area of the garage nearest the stairway that Ruby used to enter the basement shortly before Ruby entered the basement via that stairway, that someone was moving boxes in the sixth-floor window within 2 minutes after the shooting (obviously, it could not have been Oswald), that Silvia Odio's account of meeting with Oswald in company with two anti-Castro Cubans at a time when Oswald was supposedly in Mexico City is credible, that the committee established that Odio told several people about the Oswald visit before the assassination, etc., etc.

Finally, here is a very partial list of the "tinfoil hatted" public figures and experts who are on record as believing Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy:

* Dr. Joseph Dolce, an Army wound ballistics expert who played a leading role in the WC's wound ballistics tests.

* The late Senator Richard Schweiker.

* Senator Christopher Dodd, who served on the HSCA when he was a member of the House of Representatives.

* The late Senator Richard Russell, who served on the WC.

* Dr. Roger McCarthy, a ballistics expert with Failure Analysis, which assisted with the American Bar Association's mock Oswald trials in the 1990s.

* Robert MacNeil, formerly of the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour on PBS.

* Ambassador William Atwood, former Special Assistant to the U.S. delegation to the United Nations.

* President Lyndon Johnson. (We now know from the Johnson White House tapes that Johnson rejected the single-bullet theory. We also know from former Johnson aides and associates that privately Johnson said he believed Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy.)

* The late Dr. Milton Helpern, a renowned forensic pathologist and formerly the medical examiner for New York City.

* The late Dr. John Nichols, a forensic pathologist and formerly a professor of pathology at the University of Kansas.

* The late Carlos Hathcock, a Marine sniper who was widely regarded as the greatest sniper of the 20th century.

* The late Evelyn Lincoln, who was Kennedy's White House secretary.

* The late Dr. George Burkley, Kennedy's personal physician.

* Former Vice President Al Gore.

* Former Senator and Secretary of State John Kerry.

* Kennedy aides Dave Powers and Ken O'Donnell.

If anyone is wearing tinfoil hats, it is lone-gunman theorists.

Your list is bogus.
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 13, 2020, 03:25:06 PM
The fact that the Stemmons sign obscured JFK and JBC from Zapruder's view while C399 was hitting both of them

Thomas, are you merely assuming that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 actually hit Kennedy and Connally or do you have actual evidence to support that statement?

Based on the fact that the supersonic bullet wouldn't have slowed much percentage-wise while transiting JFK's body, that the bullet would have started tumbling upon exiting JFK's body, that no "intact" bullet was found inside the limo, and that JBC was sitting to the left of and lower than Kennedy, it's very reasonable to assume that both men were hit by C399.

The sign's being where it was is one of the unfortunate coincidences of the assassination which facilitated the promulgation of oodles and gobs of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories, imho.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Martin Weidmann on July 13, 2020, 03:38:44 PM
It's a very reasonable assumption, and the sign's being where it was is one of the unfortunate coincidences of the assassination which facilitated the promulgation of oodles and gobs of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories, imho.

-- MWT  ;)

My question was not about the sign!

So you base a crucial part of the case on an assumption, and then you use the term "tinfoil" for others who question the authenticity of the bullet now in evidence as CE399? Wow!

There is nothing reasonable about the assumption that CE399 hit Kennedy and Connally, when there isn't a shred of evidence for it. There is also not a shred of evidence that the bullet now in evidence was ever at Parkland Hospital.
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Michael T. Griffith on July 13, 2020, 05:37:53 PM
Your list is bogus.

No, your reply is bogus. You don't know what you're talking about. The fact that you would say my list is bogus shows you have read few if any books that discuss the evidence of conspiracy in the assassination. I mean, how can you pretend to be a serious researcher and not know that those persons expressed the belief that Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy? Their statements have been documented and discussed in numerous books on the case, even in some generic books not written to support conspiracy but just to serve as general introductions to the case.
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 13, 2020, 06:52:31 PM
Several of your "the fact that" statements are simply wrong. But, beyond the factual errors in your list, I find your posturing curious. You declare that people who believe Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy are tinfoil hatters. This is an interesting posture to assume given that you are in the decided minority of Americans who believe the lone-gunman theory. According to the most recent polling data we have on the subject, about 62% of Americans believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy, while about 34% do not, with about 4% undecided.

Furthermore, the last government investigation into the assassination, the House Select Committee on Assassinations, concluded that Kennedy was probably killed by a conspiracy, that there were four shots fired, that Jack Ruby had significant Mafia ties, that Ruby lied about his reason for shooting Oswald, that Ruby's shooting of Oswald resembled a Mafia hit to silence a witness or conspirator, that the WC ignored the clear weight of the evidence regarding how Ruby entered the DPD basement to shoot Oswald, that someone helped Ruby get into the DPD basement, that the DPD left doors unlocked along Ruby's route into the basement, that the DPD removed security from the area of the garage nearest the stairway that Ruby used to enter the basement shortly before Ruby entered the basement via that stairway, that someone was moving boxes in the sixth-floor window within 2 minutes after the shooting (obviously, it could not have been Oswald), that Silvia Odio's account of meeting with Oswald in company with two anti-Castro Cubans at a time when Oswald was supposedly in Mexico City is credible, that the committee established that Odio told several people about the Oswald visit before the assassination, etc., etc.

Finally, here is a very partial list of the "tinfoil hatted" public figures and experts who are on record as believing Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy:

* Dr. Joseph Dolce, an Army wound ballistics expert who played a leading role in the WC's wound ballistics tests.

* The late Senator Richard Schweiker.

* Senator Christopher Dodd, who served on the HSCA when he was a member of the House of Representatives.

* The late Senator Richard Russell, who served on the WC.

* Dr. Roger McCarthy, a ballistics expert with Failure Analysis, which assisted with the American Bar Association's mock Oswald trials in the 1990s.

* Robert MacNeil, formerly of the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour on PBS.

* Ambassador William Atwood, former Special Assistant to the U.S. delegation to the United Nations.

* President Lyndon Johnson. (We now know from the Johnson White House tapes that Johnson rejected the single-bullet theory. We also know from former Johnson aides and associates that privately Johnson said he believed Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy.)

* The late Dr. Milton Helpern, a renowned forensic pathologist and formerly the medical examiner for New York City.

* The late Dr. John Nichols, a forensic pathologist and formerly a professor of pathology at the University of Kansas.

* The late Carlos Hathcock, a Marine sniper who was widely regarded as the greatest sniper of the 20th century.

* The late Evelyn Lincoln, who was Kennedy's White House secretary.

* The late Dr. George Burkley, Kennedy's personal physician.

* Former Vice President Al Gore.

* Former Senator and Secretary of State John Kerry.

* Kennedy aides Dave Powers and Ken O'Donnell.

If anyone is wearing tinfoil hats, it is lone-gunman theorists.

Does being a public figure automatically make one an authority on wound ballistics? How many of your public figures were apprised of the facts about FMJ ammo being designed to perform in the way it actually did perform? That is, pass though-and-through human flesh while remaining as intact as possible. Or even knew why it was designed that way in the first place? And how do you know that your list wasn't comprised of people who might be more susceptible to conspiracy theories in the first place?

Pray tell, whom amongst the following members of your list has shown any expertise in the area of wound ballistics and knowledge of the mandated design of FMJ ammo?

Richard Schweiker
Christopher Dodd
Richard Russell
Robert MacNeil
William Atwood
Lyndon Johnson
Evelyn Lincoln
Al Gore
John Kerry
Dave Powers
Ken O'Donnell
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Jerry Freeman on July 13, 2020, 07:09:02 PM
... how do you know that your list wasn't comprised of people who are more susceptible to conspiracy theories in the first place?
??? HUH?
I guess that means that [by contrast] certain folks must be susceptible to lone nut theories :)
Of course left out is the coincidence that Jack Ruby just happened to be hanging around the jail just before Oswald was brought down to be gunned down transferred..just happened to have his .38...just happened to arrive down to the basement just in time to blast away.
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 13, 2020, 09:33:48 PM
??? HUH?
I guess that means that [by contrast] certain folks must be susceptible to lone nut theories :)
Of course left out is the coincidence that Jack Ruby just happened to be hanging around the jail just before Oswald was brought down to be gunned down transferred..just happened to have his .38...just happened to arrive down to the basement just in time to blast away.

Nutty is as nutty does. For instance, I don't claim anything outlandish.

And I didn't see any reference to Ruby on the MTG list.
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 13, 2020, 10:07:21 PM
??? HUH?
I guess that means that [by contrast] certain folks must be susceptible to lone nut theories :)
Of course left out is the coincidence that Jack Ruby just happened to be hanging around the jail just before Oswald was brought down to be gunned down transferred..just happened to have his .38...just happened to arrive down to the basement just in time to blast away.

Dear Gerald,

Jack Ruby's happening:

1) to be downtown

2) to be within quick walking distance of the police department building

3) to be, at the time, in possession of a concealed revolver which he, by the way, as a club owner evidently liked to carry at all times

4) to be familiar with the police building's layout and police personnel

5) to be the kind of guy who always wants to be "where the action is"

6) to have been able to slip unnoticed into the basement and blend in with the journalists there

7)  to be impulsive and "hot headed"

8 ) to have gunned down self-described Marxist and general loser Lee Harvey Oswald, thereby obviating the need for a trial and everything that entails ...

... could all be lumped together as another unfortunate coincidence that has, over the years, given rise to oodles and gobs of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.

Please do try to get over it, won't you?

--  MWT  ;)

PS  "But ... but ... but, Tommy  ... HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN [fill in the blank]"?

LOL
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Jerry Freeman on July 14, 2020, 12:05:26 AM
Jack Ruby's happening: 1) to be downtown 2,3,4,5,.....
... could all be lumped together as another unfortunate coincidence.
Yeah could be. You could also lump together milk, sugar, flour, and chicken crap---bake it and still call it a cookie.
Quote
..obviating the need for a trial
Yeah... who needs trials?
Nutty is as nutty does.
Do what now?
Quote
For instance, I don't claim anything outlandish.
Needn't bother. No one can understand you anyway.
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 14, 2020, 12:32:51 AM
Yeah could be. You could also lump together milk, sugar, flour, and chicken crap---bake it and still call it a cookie. Yeah... who needs trials?  Do what now? Needn't bother. No one can understand you anyway.

Dear Gerald,

Don't you wish there'd been a trial?

I do.

Or do you think the evil, evil, evil CIA, in cahoots with the evil, evil, evil DPD, the evil, evil, evil FBI and the evil, evil, evil Secret Service, et al., would have SUBVERTED IT ANYWAY?

To make it look as though Oswald was on a KGB/DGI mission so that ... you know ... we could invade Cuba and nuke Moscow?

Do you think Oswald, had he lived, should have been set free and compensated for his exquisite ... "pain and suffering"?

The inconvenience of it all?

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: John Tonkovich on July 14, 2020, 01:33:09 AM
Dear Gerald,

Don't you wish there'd been a trial?

I do.

Or do you think the evil, evil, evil CIA, in cahoots with the evil, evil, evil DPD, the evil, evil, evil FBI and the evil, evil, evil Secret Service, et al., would have SUBVERTED IT ANYWAY?

To make it look as though Oswald was on a KGB/DGI mission so that ... you know ... we could invade Cuba and nuke Moscow?

Do you think Oswald, had he lived, should have been set free and compensated for his exquisite ... "pain and suffering"?

The inconvenience of it all?

--  MWT  ;)

So, Mr. Graves, you don't think the CIA ever acted in an evil manner? Your hyperbole seems to suggest that.
You approve of  Operation PBSUCCESS? And Operation AJAX?

Also, you are aware of the possibility of "rogue operations" within organizations, including CIA?

Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 14, 2020, 04:50:17 AM
So, Mr. Graves, you don't think the CIA ever acted in an evil manner? Your hyperbole seems to suggest that.
You approve of  Operation PBSUCCESS? And Operation AJAX?

Also, you are aware of the possibility of "rogue operations" within organizations, including CIA?

So, Mr. Tonkovich, why are you putting words in my mouth?

OF COURSE THE CIA HAS DONE EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL THINGS OVER THE YEARS.

(Did you know Joseph Stalin intentionally starved 3.5 million Ukrainian peasants to death in 1932 and 1933?)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 14, 2020, 10:25:06 PM
[continued ...]

The fact that the timing of Vicki Adams' and Sandra Styles' walking down the wooden stairs from the fourth floor to the first floor was such that they neither of them heard nor saw Oswald descending the same stairs from the sixth to the second.

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Paul May on July 14, 2020, 11:29:01 PM
Several of your "the fact that" statements are simply wrong. But, beyond the factual errors in your list, I find your posturing curious. You declare that people who believe Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy are tinfoil hatters. This is an interesting posture to assume given that you are in the decided minority of Americans who believe the lone-gunman theory. According to the most recent polling data we have on the subject, about 62% of Americans believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy, while about 34% do not, with about 4% undecided.

Furthermore, the last government investigation into the assassination, the House Select Committee on Assassinations, concluded that Kennedy was probably killed by a conspiracy, that there were four shots fired, that Jack Ruby had significant Mafia ties, that Ruby lied about his reason for shooting Oswald, that Ruby's shooting of Oswald resembled a Mafia hit to silence a witness or conspirator, that the WC ignored the clear weight of the evidence regarding how Ruby entered the DPD basement to shoot Oswald, that someone helped Ruby get into the DPD basement, that the DPD left doors unlocked along Ruby's route into the basement, that the DPD removed security from the area of the garage nearest the stairway that Ruby used to enter the basement shortly before Ruby entered the basement via that stairway, that someone was moving boxes in the sixth-floor window within 2 minutes after the shooting (obviously, it could not have been Oswald), that Silvia Odio's account of meeting with Oswald in company with two anti-Castro Cubans at a time when Oswald was supposedly in Mexico City is credible, that the committee established that Odio told several people about the Oswald visit before the assassination, etc., etc.

Finally, here is a very partial list of the "tinfoil hatted" public figures and experts who are on record as believing Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy:

* Dr. Joseph Dolce, an Army wound ballistics expert who played a leading role in the WC's wound ballistics tests.

* The late Senator Richard Schweiker.

* Senator Christopher Dodd, who served on the HSCA when he was a member of the House of Representatives.

* The late Senator Richard Russell, who served on the WC.

* Dr. Roger McCarthy, a ballistics expert with Failure Analysis, which assisted with the American Bar Association's mock Oswald trials in the 1990s.

* Robert MacNeil, formerly of the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour on PBS.

* Ambassador William Atwood, former Special Assistant to the U.S. delegation to the United Nations.

* President Lyndon Johnson. (We now know from the Johnson White House tapes that Johnson rejected the single-bullet theory. We also know from former Johnson aides and associates that privately Johnson said he believed Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy.)

* The late Dr. Milton Helpern, a renowned forensic pathologist and formerly the medical examiner for New York City.

* The late Dr. John Nichols, a forensic pathologist and formerly a professor of pathology at the University of Kansas.

* The late Carlos Hathcock, a Marine sniper who was widely regarded as the greatest sniper of the 20th century.

* The late Evelyn Lincoln, who was Kennedy's White House secretary.

* The late Dr. George Burkley, Kennedy's personal physician.

* Former Vice President Al Gore.

* Former Senator and Secretary of State John Kerry.

* Kennedy aides Dave Powers and Ken O'Donnell.

If anyone is wearing tinfoil hats, it is lone-gunman theorists.

Remarkable. 57 years after the event, one is still using polling as relevant. The median age in America today is 37 years old. For 99% of Americans JFK is known in history books. Their knowledge of the event itself is non existent. You of course know this yet you post this crap losing all credibility while doing so. Tinfoil indeed.
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Martin Weidmann on July 14, 2020, 11:47:11 PM
Nutty is as nutty does. For instance, I don't claim anything outlandish.

And I didn't see any reference to Ruby on the MTG list.

I don't claim anything outlandish.

That's an outlandish claim if ever I saw one
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 15, 2020, 02:46:43 AM
Remarkable. 57 years after the event, one is still using polling as relevant. The median age in America today is 37 years old. For 99% of Americans JFK is known in history books. Their knowledge of the event itself is non existent. You of course know this yet you post this crap losing all credibility while doing so. Tinfoil indeed.

Paul,

Which means they would have been born around 1983 and within a few years would have seen Oliver "I Admire Vladimir Putin and My Son Works for RT" Stone's abominable movie JFK, which itself was a metastasticized, fanciful elaboration of Jim Garrison's "Paese Sera, Pravda and Ramparts Say Clay Shaw Was a CIA OFFICER, And His International Trade Mart Was A CIA Front!" virtual screenplay, ... and those youngsters could thereby have become brainwashed by the KGB at a very early age, indeed.

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 15, 2020, 07:37:54 PM
I don't claim anything outlandish.

That's an outlandish claim if ever I saw one

Yet you fail to identify any.
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Martin Weidmann on July 15, 2020, 09:34:41 PM
Yet you fail to identify any.

Huh? I just did
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Thomas Graves on July 15, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
[continued ...]

Edit:

And here's another one (if I haven't mentioned it already):

The fact that Dealy Plaza was a virtual concrete-and-brick echo chamber, thereby confusing many witnesses not only as to how many shots were fired, but the length of the intervals between shots, as well.

-- MWT  ;)
...

The fact that the timing of Vicki Adams' and Sandra Styles' walking down the wooden stairs from the fourth floor to the first floor was such that they neither of them heard nor saw Oswald descending the same stairs from the sixth to the second.

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 16, 2020, 06:09:27 AM
Huh? I just did

Can't wait for your list.
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Martin Weidmann on July 17, 2020, 03:42:44 AM
Can't wait for your list.

Who said anything about a list?

Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Jerry Freeman on July 23, 2020, 04:21:31 PM
Dear Gerald,

Don't you wish there'd been a trial?
I do.
Or do you think the evil, evil, evil CIA, in cahoots with the evil, evil, evil DPD, the evil, evil, evil FBI and the evil, evil, evil Secret Service, et al., would have SUBVERTED IT ANYWAY?
It is a violation of forum rules to use a name other than a members forum name.
If Ruby failed to silence Oswald...There was no doubt a contingent plan. He would have at least committed "suicide" Jeffery Epstein style.
There would have been no trial.... A trial was not to be.
The Dallas establishment [definitely including Henry Wade] was in control.
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Tom Scully on July 28, 2020, 12:44:38 AM
Jock Whitney of Freeport Sulphur fame, owned the NY Herald Tribune and personally penned this editorial literally hours after Oswald's arrest.

Forgive me if my recollection is not quite complete, but were there not only three prior successful assassinations of US Presidents, and didn't Allen Dulles present the identical argument in an initial WC executive session, two months later, and didn't John Wilkes Booth enjoy co-conspirators who were hastily executed in Washington, DC, in July, 1865?

From the bottom of the full editorial image displayed below:

(http://jfkforum.com/images/JockWhitneyLoneNutEditorial112363CRP.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7162/6818103239_4396f739c3_b.jpg)

Jock Whitney's Freeport Sulphur partner happened to be Langbourne Williams, a cousin of Billy Joe Lord's, "Jim Beamis" as well as an uncle of Henry Hurt's wife....

(http://jfkforum.com/images/BushChinaDiariesBemisDevine.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/BushLordBemissHotelExecutive.jpg)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=145503&relPageId=135&search="but_to%20allow%20the%20publication%27s%20representative"
(http://jfkforum.com/images/BillyJoeLordPresCarterFBIhotels.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/HenryHurtKennebunkport.jpg)

(http://jfkforum.com/images/BillyJoeLordHurtWilliamsFreeport.jpg)
Title: Re: A Partial List of Coincidences and Errors Encouraging Tinfoil Hat CTs
Post by: Gerry Down on September 17, 2020, 11:09:12 PM
If Ruby failed to silence Oswald...There was no doubt a contingent plan. He would have at least committed "suicide" Jeffery Epstein style.
There would have been no trial.... A trial was not to be.
The Dallas establishment [definitely including Henry Wade] was in control.

The basement shooting WAS the contingent plan. Ruby had been following Oswald around all weekend. On Sat, Ruby was seen in Dealey Plaza waiting, as people had been told, that Oswald would be moved then. If Oswald was moved then, it would have been then that Ruby silenced Oswald.