JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Joe Elliott on July 11, 2020, 06:04:51 AM
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The goat that was shot through the brain in the 1948 U. S. Army film reacted, that is started to move its legs, 40 milliseconds after the impact of the bullet.
Question:
What is the Fastest Reaction Time in an Animal?
Let us limit our discussion to terrestrial mammals, of 50 or more pounds. And I’m not interested in the time it takes “to blink an eye”, but the time to start moving a leg, an arm, a limb.
Are there other such reaction times as fast as 40 milliseconds? If so, what triggers the reaction. Sight? Sound?
Are the fastest reaction times achieved in an animal a result of a bullet through the brain?
In anyone can find as fast, or a faster, reaction time, please provide a link to this information.
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This is off topic.
JFK wasn't a animal. >:(
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This is off topic.
JFK wasn't a animal. >:(
An
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This is off topic.
JFK wasn't a animal. >:(
Wrong. We are all animals.
But you dodge the question.
Can anyone come up with a reaction as fast as 40 milliseconds?
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This is off topic.
JFK wasn't a animal. >:(
The goat was
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The goat that was shot through the brain in the 1948 U. S. Army film reacted, that is started to move its legs, 40 milliseconds after the impact of the bullet.
Question:
What is the Fastest Reaction Time in an Animal?
Let us limit our discussion to terrestrial mammals, of 50 or more pounds. And I’m not interested in the time it takes “to blink an eye”, but the time to start moving a leg, an arm, a limb.
Are there other such reaction times as fast as 40 milliseconds? If so, what triggers the reaction. Sight? Sound?
Are the fastest reaction times achieved in an animal a result of a bullet through the brain?
In anyone can find as fast, or a faster, reaction time, please provide a link to this information.
Gosh, how many times do people have to point out to you that JFK's headshot reaction looks nothing like the goat's reaction in the goat film? Kennedy's limbs don't splay after the headshot--his head starts to move backward first, and then his shoulders move backward, and then he goes limp. His arms never splay. A fraction of a second after bullet impact, he goes limp. Can you just not see this?
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Gosh, how many times do people have to point out to you that JFK's headshot reaction looks nothing like the goat's reaction in the goat film? Kennedy's limbs don't splay after the headshot--his head starts to move backward first, and then his shoulders move backward, and then he goes limp. His arms never splay. A fraction of a second after bullet impact, he goes limp. Can you just not see this?
I read somewhere that Kennedy's feet were jammed so tightly under the jump seat in front of him that they had a hell of a time getting him out of the limo. IIRC, somebody said something about having to take at least one shoe off.
Seems like some sort of biomechanical reaction.
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Gosh, how many times do people have to point out to you that JFK's headshot reaction looks nothing like the goat's reaction in the goat film? Kennedy's limbs don't splay after the headshot--his head starts to move backward first, and then his shoulders move backward, and then he goes limp. His arms never splay. A fraction of a second after bullet impact, he goes limp. Can you just not see this?
Gosh, I’m afraid I can’t see that:
(https://i.postimg.cc/0jM36zB8/z308-320-gif.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
Clearly, the President’s body does not just go limp as a result of the head shot. Can you not see the right elbow raise several inches? That can only happen if a neuromuscular spasm, or, let’s call it, muscle movement, happened as a result of the bullet through the brain. Just like the goat, muscle movement was activated by the bullet through the brain.
Does not goat’s movement and the President’s movement look identical? Of course not. The goat was a quadruped, the President, a biped. Also, the President’s head was not clamped in place. But in the essentials the movement was the same. In both cases, it appears the stronger muscles won out over weaker. Hence, the President’s head moves backward, the back arches and moves the torso backward, and the arms rise up. As Dr. Lattimer pointed out long ago. And, I guess by sheer coincidence (you CTers love coincidences), in both cases the muscles were activated shortly afterwards, 40 to 70 milliseconds after the bullet impact.
Yes, the arms of the President do not splay. Goats and humans do have a different anatomy. Our forelimbs (arms) are not designed to help us gallop over the ground. Not anymore. But the stronger muscle in each pair of muscles in the arm moved the limb, just like the forelimb of the goat.
Question:
If the muscles of the goat’s legs and the President’s arms were not activated by the bullet through the brain, why do both move? Why would the President’s right elbow move several inches upwards against gravity?
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his head starts to move backward first
(https://i.imgur.com/rXMfVT4.gif)
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Why does everybody lurch forward [Jackie not so much] when JFK is flung backwards?
(https://i.postimg.cc/0jM36zB8/z308-320-gif.gif)
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Why does everybody lurch forward [Jackie not so much] when JFK is flung backwards?
(https://i.postimg.cc/0jM36zB8/z308-320-gif.gif)
Its not from the limousine braking. During that time, the limousine was very slightly accelerating, possibly from coasting down the 3-degree slope. This minor acceleration was not large enough to affect the movements of the occupants very much. For all practical purposes the limousine was moving with a steady velocity.
https://archive.org/details/SixSecondsInDallas/page/n103/mode/2up (https://archive.org/details/SixSecondsInDallas/page/n103/mode/2up)
Perhaps everyone was ducking from the sounds and effects of the shot at z312.
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Its not from the limousine braking. During that time, the limousine was very slightly accelerating, possibly from coasting down the 3-degree slope. This minor acceleration was not large enough to affect the movements of the occupants very much. For all practical purposes the limousine was moving with a steady velocity. Perhaps everyone was ducking from the sounds and effects of the shot at z312.
"Perhaps" BS:
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There is reaction to the shots but 313 could not have been heard that quickly. The driver is looking back to the rear of the car at 313. He hears Jackie screaming. He sees the SS man running to the back of the car out of the corner of his eye. He obviously brakes very quickly but turns forward and accelerates.
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There is reaction to the shots but 313 could not have been heard that quickly.
Not from the sound of the rifle but they were impacted by blood and matter and in addition, the sounds of a bullet striking Kennedy's head, fragments hitting glass and the steel surround would have been a total sensory overload.
JohnM
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It’s not just Physics graduate student William Hoffman’s study, seen below, that indicates the limousine was essentially moving at a steady 8 mph from z305 through z345:
https://archive.org/details/SixSecondsInDallas/page/n103/mode/2up (https://archive.org/details/SixSecondsInDallas/page/n103/mode/2up)
Go look at the Zapruder frames at:
There is reaction to the shots but 313 could not have been heard that quickly. The driver is looking back to the rear of the car at 313. He hears Jackie screaming. He sees the SS man running to the back of the car out of the corner of his eye. He obviously brakes very quickly but turns forward and accelerates.
Looking at the individual Zapruder frames at:
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/ (https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/)
I don’t see any real difference in the other occupants between z312 and z316. By z317, I think Governor Connally might be just starting to react. About a quarter of a second after the shot. The timing works out right.
During this time, “Landmarks”, from standing witnesses seen behind the limousine, to something white lying on the ground, visible from z313 and afterwards, show these landmarks always moving about 8 inches to the left with each frame, compared to any part of the limousine, indicating a steady 8 mph speed that does not slow or speed up significantly during this period.
At 8 mph, it should take about 31 frames for the length of the limousine to pass by one of these landmarks. The entire length of limousine is not visible but most of it is, and it takes from frame z313 through z335, 22 frames, for about two thirds of the length of the limousine to pass by that white object lying on the green grass.
Tell me which section of the Zapruder film from z305 through z345 shows a stretch where the limousine is going slower, or faster, than 8 mph. I see none.
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There is reaction to the shots but 313 could not have been heard that quickly. The driver is looking back to the rear of the car at 313. He hears Jackie screaming. He sees the SS man running to the back of the car out of the corner of his eye. He obviously brakes very quickly but turns forward and accelerates.
Looking at the individual Zapruder frames at:
https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/ (https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/)
I don’t see any real difference in the other occupants between z312 and z316. By z317, I think Governor Connally might be just starting to react. About a quarter of a second after the shot. The timing works out right.
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Ok. It’s been a few days. And no one has been able to come up with as fast a reaction time for a mammal, 50 pounds or more, as 40 milliseconds. Where a ‘reaction’ is not something trivial like an eyeblink but the movement of the head or a limb. It seems that shooting an animal in the head causes the fastest reaction times.
But it has been pointed out that a goat is not a human. So how much does the reaction times vary from mammal to mammal?
Think about nature shows. How common is it for an animal to barely escape a predator? Or to be barely caught? Pretty common. Often, a big cat will sneak up on its prey and a split-second quicker reaction time from the prey can mean the difference between life and death.
Under the influence of Natural Selection, how fast are animal reactions? As fast as possible. For over 90% of the mammals.
For the goat, fast reactions are critical to escaping a sudden attack. For our ancestors, it was also critical to react quickly to avoid a predator. Or to adjust an arm or leg quickly to avoid falling to one’s death from high in a tree. Or more recently, to quickly adjust the aim of a critical javelin throw that if off may result in the thrower going hungry, or even being killed. For both predators and prey, quick reactions are critical. And Natural Selection will keep them quick in all mammals, except the tree sloths.
About 310 million years ago, the ancestors of mammals split off from the main reptile line. For the next 225 million years, until 85 million years ago, our ancestors, and the ancestors of goats, were one and the same. All of our differences came about in the last 85 million years. No doubt, by 85 million years ago, the mammals of that time had fast reactions. A typical mammal of that time probably reacted about as fast as a typical modern mammal of similar size. Because reaction times are so relentlessly honed by Natural Selection. And in general, no mammal is going to lose that edge without going extinct. Unless it hangs out in trees, camouflaged and almost totally motionless, which is an unusual niche.
There is no compelling reason to assume goat reaction times are so much faster than humans. They are no doubt pretty similar. If a goat reacts super-fast to a bullet passing though the brain, it’s a very good bet that the same is true for humans, even though we can never run that experiment.
Yes, my opinions are those of a layman. But they are reasonable opinions, based on the science of Natural Selection.