JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Izraul Hidashi on July 04, 2020, 08:32:33 PM
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I don't understand this concept of a windshield throat shot. So let's look at some of this logically and see if the evidence doesn't coincide with what I'm saying.
1st of all, for a shooter to be posted in front of the limo means they would have to be in an elevated position. Why? Well let's see... maybe because if you're going to shoot at someone in the very back of a car with 4 other people in front of your target, it's best to have a clear shot. Does that make sense?
2nd. Why would a shooter, posted in the front of the car, at an elevated position, attempt to go through the windshield? The limo was a convertible. Can anyone else see the idiocy of that notion? If someone were on the bridge, he wouldn't have to go through the windshield... and he certainly wouldn't shoot on the driver side, unless he was going for the driver. That makes no sense at all. Clearly the people who think that have never been in a gun fight, or shot anyone, or been shot at. The gunman would have to be a complete idiot to attempt those things, and you don't hire complete idiots to do in a president.
Some people have also tried to claim that the windshield was already shot in the Altgens photo. That's even dumber. Do people actually think that the passengers (secret service) wouldn't notice the sound of a bullet whizzing by their heads? Or the sound it makes when smacking the windshield? If you've ever had a tiny pebble hit your windshield then you know how that sounds. A bullet is 20x worse. And you know if your windshield is cracked or not. This was right in front of the drivers face. Who thinks he wouldn't have noticed that? A bullet hole right in front of his face. If that had happened before, then I guarantee JFK would still be alive. Because a trained Secret Service individual would have noticed a gunshot in the windshield. Everyone in the car would have noticed. So that theory is idiocy. And the crack people are pointing to isn't even a crack. It's not even in the same place.
JFK's throat wound was not an entrance wound. How anyone can look at the autopsy photos and think that is beyond me? Clearly those people haven't seen real gunshot wounds before. The same thing goes for bullet holes in a cars.
It isn't hard to tell which holes are entrance and exit. Which brings me to an interesting point. When I was younger (gang banging) we used to patrol our set to make sure other hoods weren't creeping around. We learned from experience that when you get into a gunfight you never know the situation. So having the same ammo in your gun wasn't a good idea. If our clips were filled with just hollow tips and we exchanged gunfire with people in cars, then we'd be in a bad position. Because hollow points open up. The likely hood of the slug making it through the cars exterior are pretty slim. Unless you're using an extremely high grain projectile, which most handguns in the street aren't capable of handling. I've seen some pretty bad things happen to people who don't understand grain loads.
Anyway, my point is, we always dutched clipped, meaning alternated our ammo (ball, hollow, ball, hallow), because ball has a better chance of making it through car doors. And a lot of confrontations in the street involve people in cars. But if you're face to face with someone trying to kill you, you're going to want hollow tips. I've seen ball ammo go right through people and fail to stop them. But a hollow will slow them down. Usually permanently. And it's a funny thing about handguns when cars are involved. I once tried shooting through the windshield of a friends car from the inside with a Beretta .380. None of the bullets made it through. They hit the windows and either slid down into the dash or ricocheted. Needless to say I learned a valuable lesson that day. I started carrying around a Kel-tec .223.
You're probably wondering why I'm talking about this. Here's why...
A .223 eliminates the problem of having to guess which ammo to use. You can make it all the way through cars with a .223. It can kill anything walking. Of course everything I'm saying can vary, depending on the type of firearms, ammunition and vehicles. But when I was looking at some photos of the limo sitting out front of Parkland, I noticed a few things that caught my eye.
The first thing I noticed was 2 bullet holes. 1 in the trunk and 1 in the windshield frame, right above (and to the right of) the rear view mirror (in between the sun visors). Both of these holes were entrance. Meaning the shooter was behind. And just to be clear, there's no doubt that the throat wound came from the back. I don't care what anyone say's or thinks. I can clearly see the shooters muzzle flash, then JFK immediately reach for his throat, and then the governor is hit immediately after that. All in succession. Not rocket science.
Then I noticed a bump in the drivers side sun visor, which happens to be right above where the windshield was hit. Either a bullet didn't make it through and got stuck in the visor, or it isn't from a bullet. When I looked at a photo of the windshield from the front I noticed the back of the rear view mirror was dented. So I looked at the other photo again to see if the rear view mirror was shattered. It wasn't.
Right away that tells me there's 2 possibilities. Either there was 2 shots from the front that came from a handgun, which probably happened after. Or the bump in the visor wasn't from a bullet, and the windshield was hit from the back, with the bullet then ricocheting into the back of the rear view mirror.
I noticed the exit hole from the shot in the frame (between the 2 sun visors), but I couldn't see an entrance into the frame where the sun visor bump was. That doesn't mean it wasn't there. It just means I couldn't see it. If the windshield shot did come from the front, then it had to have come in at an angle for it to have hit the back of the rear view mirror. That means it was hard enough to go through the windshield, but not hard enough to make it through the rear view mirror, or even break the glass. That's how I know it had to have been a handgun. And that's if it really was an entrance.
If those 2 shots did come from the front...1 didn't make it past the visor. The other didn't make it past the rear view mirror. That screams handgun. Someone else must have intentionally shot the front windshield to make it look like there was a shooter from the front. Probably to throw more confusion into the mix and divert attention from what really happened. Hand me a .223 and I'll show you what it can do. That rear view mirror wouldn't stand a chance. Trust me...I know. Whatever went through that windshield couldn't even make it past a sun visor or a rear view mirror.
And even if those shots had made it, there's no way in hell they hit the president. The only way he could have had an entrance wound from the front is if the bullet entered right below the rear view mirror, from a head on position, at slight angle. And that's considering it wouldn't have hit the other occupants. The windshield hole is too far in front of the drivers side to have hit the president. Not at the angle the throat wound was. People are actually saying the throat was an entrance, which would make the back an exit. And I'm sorry, but that's retarded AF.
A professional shooter would never attempt to make those shots. Especially when he didn't have to. He could have easily just hit the president in the head from an elevated position at that angle, since it was a convertible. And if we're being logical, then truthfully the president could have been hit at any time before, a lot easier. If Oswald had really wanted to kill the president, and was really in the 6th floor window, he could have taken this shot and been done with it.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uJ5Q4z7F6kwxSFhH7 or this shot.. https://photos.app.goo.gl/qqVgEgzZDm7swDPF9 or even this shot... https://photos.app.goo.gl/tz1vm44bi1Egce5o7
And if you look at the middle one, you can see what I mean when I say it makes no sense for a shooter in the front to try going through the windshield.
THERE WAS NO WINDSHIELD THROAT SHOT. THE PRESIDENT WAS NOT HIT FROM THE FRONT. PERIOD.
Watch the video. First the president is hit, he grabs his throat, then the governor is hit. That's what a .223 can do. With the right ammo, at a 100 yards, I could shoot through a car, and the occupants, like butter. Luckily I grew up so I would never do anything like that. But I can't forget the things I've seen and learned. I know entrance and exit wounds & holes whenever I see them. I could see them in my sleep. And I do.
None of this rocket science. It's common sense. I'm sure there's probably a few people here with military backgrounds. And if they've seen combat then they know I'm right. There's no mistaking entrance and exit holes.
One thing I will say... bullets can be unpredictable. I saw a friend killed while I was at another friends funeral. The 2 shooters came walking across the street from the cemetery while firing. My friend was in between a car and a van off to their left. When I saw him drop I just assumed he was taking cover. Till this day we have no idea how he was hit. The bullet could have easily ricocheted off of a headstone. Or it curved, which is highly unlikely, but that's what would have had to happen for him to get hit. Or... there was a third shooter we just didn't see. Who knows. But usually there's a reasonable explanation. You just have to find it.
Here are the photos I was talking about.
This photo is an example of entrance and exit holes in a car. (https://photos.app.goo.gl/kaTZiUiWpfAxRZAe9)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kaTZiUiWpfAxRZAe9
The 2 red circles in this photo are entrance holes. The blue square is the possible shot from the front that didn't make it through the visor. The green triangle on the other car looks like a bullet hole, but it isn't. I have no idea whose car that is. The yellow oval is the windshield shot. Regardless if it was entrance or exit, it could not have hit the president. To be honest it doesn't even look like it went through. If I had to guess, I'd say it came from the back and ricocheted into the rear view mirror. https://photos.app.goo.gl/sRRRJtFgM6LCDMAa6
Here's a better look at the windshield. It doesn't look like it went through. .223's leave much bigger holes. But if it did, it was angled enough to damage the rear view. https://photos.app.goo.gl/dfVANYw5dP1L6VBS6
This photo gives you a better idea of what happened if the shot did come from the front. And the blue square is the exit hole from the shot in the frame (in between the visors). https://photos.app.goo.gl/vRxwjorguUHmfbhu5
And for those who still don't get it. All I can say is that you're really not paying attention. https://photos.app.goo.gl/T4pkVFdRMk5Q6yWPA
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https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,299.0.html (https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,299.0.html)
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I think it is silly to argue that an assassin would never have attempted to fire a bullet through the windshield to hit JFK. Military and police snipers train to fire at targets through glass windows (see, for example, https://www.bevfitchett.us/sniper-training-2/shooting-through-glass.html).
We have solid evidence that there was a round through-and-through hole in the windshield. Numerous witnesses got a very good look at it. Here is a thorough presentation by attorney Doug Weldon on the evidence that a bullet passed through the front windshield:
Most of this evidence is also found in Weldon's chapter on the limousine in Murder in Dealey Plaza (Part II, pp. 129-158, available online at https://www.krusch.com/books/kennedy/Murder_In_Dealey_Plaza.pdf).
It is not like people have not been shot by bullets that came through a glass window.
Someone took a shot at General Walker by aiming at him through an intervening glass window.
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I don't understand this concept of a windshield throat shot. So let's look at some of this logically and see if the evidence doesn't coincide with what I'm saying.
1st of all, for a shooter to be posted in front of the limo means they would have to be in an elevated position. Why? Well let's see... maybe because if you're going to shoot at someone in the very back of a car with 4 other people in front of your target, it's best to have a clear shot. Does that make sense?
2nd. Why would a shooter, posted in the front of the car, at an elevated position, attempt to go through the windshield? The limo was a convertible. Can anyone else see the idiocy of that notion? If someone were on the bridge, he wouldn't have to go through the windshield... and he certainly wouldn't shoot on the driver side, unless he was going for the driver. That makes no sense at all. Clearly the people who think that have never been in a gun fight, or shot anyone, or been shot at. The gunman would have to be a complete idiot to attempt those things, and you don't hire complete idiots to do in a president.
Some people have also tried to claim that the windshield was already shot in the Altgens photo. That's even dumber. Do people actually think that the passengers (secret service) wouldn't notice the sound of a bullet whizzing by their heads? Or the sound it makes when smacking the windshield? If you've ever had a tiny pebble hit your windshield then you know how that sounds. A bullet is 20x worse. And you know if your windshield is cracked or not. This was right in front of the drivers face. Who thinks he wouldn't have noticed that? A bullet hole right in front of his face. If that had happened before, then I guarantee JFK would still be alive. Because a trained Secret Service individual would have noticed a gunshot in the windshield. Everyone in the car would have noticed. So that theory is idiocy. And the crack people are pointing to isn't even a crack. It's not even in the same place.
JFK's throat wound was not an entrance wound. How anyone can look at the autopsy photos and think that is beyond me? Clearly those people haven't seen real gunshot wounds before. The same thing goes for bullet holes in a cars.
It isn't hard to tell which holes are entrance and exit. Which brings me to an interesting point. When I was younger (gang banging) we used to patrol our set to make sure other hoods weren't creeping around. We learned from experience that when you get into a gunfight you never know the situation. So having the same ammo in your gun wasn't a good idea. If our clips were filled with just hollow tips and we exchanged gunfire with people in cars, then we'd be in a bad position. Because hollow points open up. The likely hood of the slug making it through the cars exterior are pretty slim. Unless you're using an extremely high grain projectile, which most handguns in the street aren't capable of handling. I've seen some pretty bad things happen to people who don't understand grain loads.
Anyway, my point is, we always dutched clipped, meaning alternated our ammo (ball, hollow, ball, hallow), because ball has a better chance of making it through car doors. And a lot of confrontations in the street involve people in cars. But if you're face to face with someone trying to kill you, you're going to want hollow tips. I've seen ball ammo go right through people and fail to stop them. But a hollow will slow them down. Usually permanently. And it's a funny thing about handguns when cars are involved. I once tried shooting through the windshield of a friends car from the inside with a Beretta .380. None of the bullets made it through. They hit the windows and either slid down into the dash or ricocheted. Needless to say I learned a valuable lesson that day. I started carrying around a Kel-tec .223.
You're probably wondering why I'm talking about this. Here's why...
A .223 eliminates the problem of having to guess which ammo to use. You can make it all the way through cars with a .223. It can kill anything walking. Of course everything I'm saying can vary, depending on the type of firearms, ammunition and vehicles. But when I was looking at some photos of the limo sitting out front of Parkland, I noticed a few things that caught my eye.
The first thing I noticed was 2 bullet holes. 1 in the trunk and 1 in the windshield frame, right above (and to the right of) the rear view mirror (in between the sun visors). Both of these holes were entrance. Meaning the shooter was behind. And just to be clear, there's no doubt that the throat wound came from the back. I don't care what anyone say's or thinks. I can clearly see the shooters muzzle flash, then JFK immediately reach for his throat, and then the governor is hit immediately after that. All in succession. Not rocket science.
Then I noticed a bump in the drivers side sun visor, which happens to be right above where the windshield was hit. Either a bullet didn't make it through and got stuck in the visor, or it isn't from a bullet. When I looked at a photo of the windshield from the front I noticed the back of the rear view mirror was dented. So I looked at the other photo again to see if the rear view mirror was shattered. It wasn't.
Right away that tells me there's 2 possibilities. Either there was 2 shots from the front that came from a handgun, which probably happened after. Or the bump in the visor wasn't from a bullet, and the windshield was hit from the back, with the bullet then ricocheting into the back of the rear view mirror.
I noticed the exit hole from the shot in the frame (between the 2 sun visors), but I couldn't see an entrance into the frame where the sun visor bump was. That doesn't mean it wasn't there. It just means I couldn't see it. If the windshield shot did come from the front, then it had to have come in at an angle for it to have hit the back of the rear view mirror. That means it was hard enough to go through the windshield, but not hard enough to make it through the rear view mirror, or even break the glass. That's how I know it had to have been a handgun. And that's if it really was an entrance.
If those 2 shots did come from the front...1 didn't make it past the visor. The other didn't make it past the rear view mirror. That screams handgun. Someone else must have intentionally shot the front windshield to make it look like there was a shooter from the front. Probably to throw more confusion into the mix and divert attention from what really happened. Hand me a .223 and I'll show you what it can do. That rear view mirror wouldn't stand a chance. Trust me...I know. Whatever went through that windshield couldn't even make it past a sun visor or a rear view mirror.
And even if those shots had made it, there's no way in hell they hit the president. The only way he could have had an entrance wound from the front is if the bullet entered right below the rear view mirror, from a head on position, at slight angle. And that's considering it wouldn't have hit the other occupants. The windshield hole is too far in front of the drivers side to have hit the president. Not at the angle the throat wound was. People are actually saying the throat was an entrance, which would make the back an exit. And I'm sorry, but that's retarded AF.
A professional shooter would never attempt to make those shots. Especially when he didn't have to. He could have easily just hit the president in the head from an elevated position at that angle, since it was a convertible. And if we're being logical, then truthfully the president could have been hit at any time before, a lot easier. If Oswald had really wanted to kill the president, and was really in the 6th floor window, he could have taken this shot and been done with it.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uJ5Q4z7F6kwxSFhH7 or this shot.. https://photos.app.goo.gl/qqVgEgzZDm7swDPF9 or even this shot... https://photos.app.goo.gl/tz1vm44bi1Egce5o7
And if you look at the middle one, you can see what I mean when I say it makes no sense for a shooter in the front to try going through the windshield.
THERE WAS NO WINDSHIELD THROAT SHOT. THE PRESIDENT WAS NOT HIT FROM THE FRONT. PERIOD.
Watch the video. First the president is hit, he grabs his throat, then the governor is hit. That's what a .223 can do. With the right ammo, at a 100 yards, I could shoot through a car, and the occupants, like butter. Luckily I grew up so I would never do anything like that. But I can't forget the things I've seen and learned. I know entrance and exit wounds & holes whenever I see them. I could see them in my sleep. And I do.
None of this rocket science. It's common sense. I'm sure there's probably a few people here with military backgrounds. And if they've seen combat then they know I'm right. There's no mistaking entrance and exit holes.
One thing I will say... bullets can be unpredictable. I saw a friend killed while I was at another friends funeral. The 2 shooters came walking across the street from the cemetery while firing. My friend was in between a car and a van off to their left. When I saw him drop I just assumed he was taking cover. Till this day we have no idea how he was hit. The bullet could have easily ricocheted off of a headstone. Or it curved, which is highly unlikely, but that's what would have had to happen for him to get hit. Or... there was a third shooter we just didn't see. Who knows. But usually there's a reasonable explanation. You just have to find it.
Here are the photos I was talking about.
This photo is an example of entrance and exit holes in a car. (https://photos.app.goo.gl/kaTZiUiWpfAxRZAe9)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kaTZiUiWpfAxRZAe9
The 2 red circles in this photo are entrance holes. The blue square is the possible shot from the front that didn't make it through the visor. The green triangle on the other car looks like a bullet hole, but it isn't. I have no idea whose car that is. The yellow oval is the windshield shot. Regardless if it was entrance or exit, it could not have hit the president. To be honest it doesn't even look like it went through. If I had to guess, I'd say it came from the back and ricocheted into the rear view mirror. https://photos.app.goo.gl/sRRRJtFgM6LCDMAa6
Here's a better look at the windshield. It doesn't look like it went through. .223's leave much bigger holes. But if it did, it was angled enough to damage the rear view. https://photos.app.goo.gl/dfVANYw5dP1L6VBS6
This photo gives you a better idea of what happened if the shot did come from the front. And the blue square is the exit hole from the shot in the frame (in between the visors). https://photos.app.goo.gl/vRxwjorguUHmfbhu5
And for those who still don't get it. All I can say is that you're really not paying attention. https://photos.app.goo.gl/T4pkVFdRMk5Q6yWPA
1st of all, for a shooter to be posted in front of the limo means they would have to be in an elevated position. Why? Well let's see... maybe because if you're going to shoot at someone in the very back of a car with 4 other people in front of your target, it's best to have a clear shot. Does that make sense?
Yes it makes sense, if you put it that way, but you are wrong nevertheless. Elm street has a downward slope which means that the people in the back of the car were higher elevated than those in the front. If you consider the crack in the window to be a bullet hole, the line of fire would run diagonally and upward, giving a shooter positioned on the seperation between Elm and Main a clear shot. Would it surprise you to learn there was a truck parked there which can be seen in the Zap film but which disappeared within a minute or so of the shooting?
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1st of all, for a shooter to be posted in front of the limo means they would have to be in an elevated position. Why? Well let's see... maybe because if you're going to shoot at someone in the very back of a car with 4 other people in front of your target, it's best to have a clear shot. Does that make sense?
Yes it makes sense, if you put it that way, but you are wrong nevertheless. Elm street has a downward slope which means that the people in the back of the car were higher elevated than those in the front. If you consider the crack in the window to be a bullet hole, the line of fire would run diagonally and upward, giving a shooter positioned on the seperation between Elm and Main a clear shot. Would it surprise you to learn there was a truck parked there which can be seen in the Zap film but which disappeared within a minute or so of the shooting?
One, we know there was a bullet in the windshield. We have solid evidence of this.
Two, not all of the frontal gunman sites would have required shooting through the windshield.
Three, that said, military and police snipers are trained to shoot people through glass. It's part of their training, since sometimes they have to shoot people who are riding in cars or who are behind a house or building window.
Four, any halfway competent gunman in the sixth-floor window would have fired at JFK while the limo was driving on Houston Street, since the target would have been coming toward the window and since there was no intervening oak tree.
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Your unequivocal assertion that there was no frontal wound to JFK's throat is specious. Actually, there is proof from Parkland and Bethesda that the throat wound was an entrance. Did you not see the unanimous reports of the Dallas doctors and nurses? Every one said Wound of ENTRANCE in the throat (although Specter tried hard to coerce the opposite testimony). Furthermore and more importantly, the shot in the back DID NOT EXIT according to multiple autopsy witnesses. The wound was probed by Humes and it was LESS THAN A FINGER'S LENGTH. Do you understand why it makes the throat wound an impossibility? The wound in the throat HAD to be an entrance.
But let's say LHO was firing downward from the 6th floor window. Wouldn't the back wound have exited closer to JFK's nipple than his throat? Honestly, the SBT is so insanely stupid on so many levels, Arlen Specter should be in the National Hall of Shame.
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but there was a throat shot
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We can be fairly certain that someone planning for a windshield assassination would very likely have asked when buying his ammo whether he needed a permit to hunt a POTUS & what was the closed season & whether there was a size limit.
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Phil Willis put a time stamp on the first shot by clicking the shutter on his camera when the sound
of that shot startled him.
(http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/willis%205%20arrow.jpg)
A frontal throat shot doesn't need to go through the windshield.
There is an unobstructed line of sight and bullet path from the top of the picket fence to JFK's throat.
Which if memory serves, is where the HSCA acoustical study and many DP witnesses said at least
one shot originated from.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ae75/garcra/willis_5_1.1.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
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I noticed the exit hole from the shot in the frame (between the 2 sun visors), but I couldn't see an entrance into the frame where the sun visor bump was. That doesn't mean it wasn't there. It just means I couldn't see it. If the windshield shot did come from the front, then it had to have come in at an angle for it to have hit the back of the rear view mirror. That means it was hard enough to go through the windshield, but not hard enough to make it through the rear view mirror, or even break the glass. That's how I know it had to have been a handgun. And that's if it really was an entrance.
If those 2 shots did come from the front...1 didn't make it past the visor. The other didn't make it past the rear view mirror. That screams handgun. Someone else must have intentionally shot the front windshield to make it look like there was a shooter from the front. Probably to throw more confusion into the mix and divert attention from what really happened. Hand me a .223 and I'll show you what it can do. That rear view mirror wouldn't stand a chance. Trust me...I know. Whatever went through that windshield couldn't even make it past a sun visor or a rear view mirror.
This photo is an example of entrance and exit holes in a car. https://photos.app.goo.gl/kaTZiUiWpfAxRZAe9
I notice that a bullet didnt manage to put a hole in the chrome side strip on that car.
Would a 0.223" put a hole throo the chrome windshield strip in JFK's limo.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/LWw4JoNdbFhdOTXX0xutnnhcDxNY6QeEjLJgsPRY70twUAgUASTrXXHvZvnUuD9AoeyidVShPnmzaT0u8Hfnf07pg0HTNj-WCGxv-SKH_eKcpB-0Gb0mDRSIae9qzw586Q=w1280)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/pFteUFC_0NHYzM79E-BiRetcudz50MO7namcx_mXa_psdaY-Dy_f2FtPFq__wVRwT8HZ3exjI7Ib7pE0TMvpxe1HVEHp-Kc6cSOdG29RtwcA48DaY2VhJRZ76DkKlHDsNQ=w1280)