JFK Assassination Forum

JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Gerry Down on June 30, 2020, 06:20:09 PM

Title: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 30, 2020, 06:20:09 PM
Presumably his dishonorable discharge would be reversed - something that can be done after someone dies.

Also, Marguerite Oswald wanted him buried in Arlington rather than Fort Worth. Doubt the government would go that far though.
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on June 30, 2020, 10:26:03 PM
Presumably his dishonorable discharge would be reversed - something that can be done after someone dies.

Also, Marguerite Oswald wanted him buried in Arlington rather than Fort Worth. Doubt the government would go that far though.

Hang on... If it could be firmly established that Oswald didn't kill Kennedy and Tippit, the charges against (which were never brought against him in the first place) would have to be dropped.

Beyond that, what exactly did he do that would justify a reversal of his dishonorable discharge and/or a burial at Arlington?
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 30, 2020, 10:31:16 PM
Hang on... If it could be firmly established that Oswald didn't kill Kennedy and Tippit, the charges against (which were never brought against him in the first place) would have to be dropped.

Beyond that, what exactly did he do that would justify a reversal of his dishonorable discharge and/or a burial at Arlington?

There has been no evidence in the 57 years since the assassination that he ever gave secrets to the russians, when he defected. And this was the basis for his dishonorable discharge. So if it was proved he didn't commit the assassination, his dishonorable discharge be given back.
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Peter Goth on June 30, 2020, 10:44:58 PM
I just read he only had a month of service left when he received the discharge to help his mother
anybody know?
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Gerry Down on June 30, 2020, 10:55:03 PM
I just read he only had a month of service left when he received the discharge to help his mother
anybody know?

I think that is true. And if he left after that one month, he would get an honorable discharge which i think could not have been changed by the army afterwards even if they wanted to.

So why did Oswald go to the USSR and say he was going to give away secrets, which he must have known would have given him a dishonorable discharge, and then while in Russia complain in a letter to Gov. Connally about being given a dishonorable discharge. It doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Gerry Down on July 01, 2020, 12:26:02 AM
Gary Francis Powers thought Oswald may have enabled the Ruskies to shoot him down.

Is there a source for that or just speculation on what Powers thought?
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Gerry Down on July 01, 2020, 12:32:27 AM
Dear Gerry,

Hint: The former.

I believe it's in his book.

Why don't you research it?

--  MWT  ;)

Thanks. Will do.
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Paul May on July 01, 2020, 03:07:15 AM
Presumably his dishonorable discharge would be reversed - something that can be done after someone dies.

Also, Marguerite Oswald wanted him buried in Arlington rather than Fort Worth. Doubt the government would go that far though.

His discharge was undesirable not dishonorable.
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Louis Earl on July 01, 2020, 03:19:01 AM
I've sometimes wondered what the national reaction would be to the news that this man who was probably the most hated man in the world for decades was really just a sad, disillusioned loser after all?   I assume Marina and his daughters would be looking for a lawyer.

And what about Mrs. Tippit?  If Oswald didn't shoot her husband who did, and why?

What a can of worms.
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Richard Smith on July 01, 2020, 01:41:45 PM
Bury him at Arlington?  LOL.  I wouldn't hold my breath that he would be deemed St. Oswald.  By most accounts he was an unlikeable kook even before he became a notorious double murderer.  A defector, traitor, political nut, wife beater, and pathological liar. 
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on July 01, 2020, 07:34:38 PM
There has been no evidence in the 57 years since the assassination that he ever gave secrets to the russians, when he defected. And this was the basis for his dishonorable discharge. So if it was proved he didn't commit the assassination, his dishonorable discharge be given back.

Ok, to some extent, I can go along with that, but that wouldn't be an award.

In your thread title you asked what award he would get.
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on July 01, 2020, 07:36:47 PM
Bury him at Arlington?  LOL.  I wouldn't hold my breath that he would be deemed St. Oswald.  By most accounts he was an unlikeable kook even before he became a notorious double murderer.  A defector, traitor, political nut, wife beater, and pathological liar.

he was an unlikeable kook

Frazier, who actually knew him to some extent, would disagree with that...
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on July 01, 2020, 08:27:55 PM
There has been no evidence in the 57 years since the assassination that he ever gave secrets to the russians, when he defected. And this was the basis for his dishonorable discharge. So if it was proved he didn't commit the assassination, his dishonorable discharge be given back.
Oswald was not dishonorably discharged. I believe it was a bad conduct discharge.
BTW...
Quote
Due to limited space, only honorably discharged members in certain categories are eligible for burial in Arlington National Cemetery, this includes: Members who died on active duty and their immediate family. Retirees and their immediate family. Recipients of the Purple Heart, or Silver Star and above.
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 01, 2020, 08:56:17 PM
he was an unlikeable kook

Frazier, who actually knew him to some extend, would disagree with that...

extend extent

Frazier served a purpose
Sociopaths use people
No ride... no dead Kennedy

 ;)
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Gary Craig on July 01, 2020, 09:05:26 PM
"If Oswald was proven innocent"

He would need to be found guilty first.

The case never went to trial.

The WC and government failed to convict him in the court of public opinion.

Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on July 01, 2020, 09:09:22 PM
extend extent

Frazier served a purpose
Sociopaths use people
No ride... no dead Kennedy

 ;)

No ride... no dead Kennedy

Is that how simplistic your "logic" is?
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on July 01, 2020, 09:34:30 PM
His discharge was undesirable not dishonorable.
Correct.
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 01, 2020, 10:39:10 PM
No ride... no dead Kennedy

Is that how simplistic your "logic" is?

That's pretty much the limit of Chapman's intellect.

What "purpose" did Pat Hall serve then under the Chapman doctrine?
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Robert Doane on July 02, 2020, 01:49:20 AM
Lee's discharge was reviewed in 1963 on his request but wasn't changed, he had Marine Reserve obligation that he couldn't fulfill in USSR and a previous notification of his discharge also brought up the point of Lee renouncing his US citizenship, which he didn't accomplish officially.
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 03, 2020, 11:58:51 PM
No ride... no dead Kennedy

Is that how simplistic your "logic" is?

Icing on the cake
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Joe Elliott on July 04, 2020, 12:40:53 AM

If proven innocent, Oswald would deserve no reward but his lawyer should supplant Clarence Darrow as being considered the world’s greatest lawyer.
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 04, 2020, 06:48:04 AM
That's pretty much the limit of Chapman's intellect.

What "purpose" did Pat Hall serve then under the Chapman doctrine?

> Chapman's intellect seems enough to raise OAKer BPs
> O.H. Lee repurposed the Beckley rooming house as a personal safe-house
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 04, 2020, 06:51:25 AM
No ride⟩ ... ⟨no dead Kennedy

It's Chapman connecting the dots -- LOL

Oswald connected the dots
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: John Iacoletti on July 04, 2020, 07:22:31 AM
> Chapman's intellect seems enough to raise OAKer BPs

No, it just raises laughter. And pity.
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Jerry Freeman on July 10, 2020, 06:24:43 AM
His discharge was undesirable not dishonorable.
And that is very unusual if not an actual rarity.
 Undesirable discharges were given to remove someone that was most un-military like from the service. At one time, homosexual activity was grounds for an undesirable. That brought problems and criticism to military leadership and this category was lumped under the General Discharge [under honorable conditions] This category was often called a blue discharge along with section 8 and other maladies such as mental disturbance. But it wasn't deemed as badly as dishonorable. BTW---a Dishonorable or Bad Conduct discharge is only handed down by a court marshal.
Undesirable is no longer a discharge category. But when it was like back in the 50's and early sixties...it was intended to remove a service person from the service without a court marshal.  Oswald was already gone. So changing an Honorable Discharge to an Undesirable was probably invalid anyway.
If Oswald gave secret information to the Soviets and it could be proven...he should have been arrested as a spy when he returned and tried for espionage. Furthermore--- he applied for hardship conditions when he requested his release and failed the obligation he swore to ---to be available to take care of his mother---another lie another charge.
That none of this happened and everything was just ignored by the FBI, Judge Advocates in the Navy and the Warren Commission should give pause to everyone...uhhh gee how come?
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: David Monaghan on July 10, 2020, 08:04:10 AM
extend extent

Frazier served a purpose
Sociopaths use people
No ride... no dead Kennedy

 ;)
[/quote
So he couldn't have got a bus you bawbag?
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Martin Weidmann on July 10, 2020, 02:14:17 PM
Does "OAK" stand for "Oswald Xxx Kisser"?

--  MWT  ;)

It stands for Oswald And Kennedy
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 10, 2020, 10:27:47 PM
It stands for Oswald And Kennedy

Good one, but Thomas is right.
I'll plead your version in case someone says I'm insulting them
 ;)

Here's one that works for both sides: OOCD (aka Oswald Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder)
Title: Re: If Oswald was proven innocent, what award should he get?
Post by: Bill Chapman on July 10, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
Does "OAK" stand for "Oswald Xxx Kisser"?

--  MWT  ;)

Bingo