JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Thomas Graves on May 17, 2020, 07:57:48 PM
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Were Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone taken in by KGB disinformation?
It sure looks that way to me.
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/fall_winter_2001/article02.html#_ftnref70
-- MWT ;)
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Were Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone taken in by KGB disinformation?
It sure looks that way to me.
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/fall_winter_2001/article02.html#_ftnref70
-- MWT ;)
Here's another example of the kind of "alternative facts" the humanitarian organization known as the KGB (today's SVR and FSB) likes to deal in.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_INFEKTION
-- ;)
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Were Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone taken in by KGB disinformation?
It sure looks that way to me.
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/fall_winter_2001/article02.html#_ftnref70
-- MWT ;)
Interesting article! Here’s an excerpt that I find interesting:
“None of this seemed to matter, least of all to the CIA, until the publisher of Garrison’s memoir thrust a copy into the hands of filmmaker Oliver Stone during an international film festival in Cuba.[68] That chance encounter eventually led to the endorsement of Paese Sera’s disinformation by a major Hollywood film, JFK. In the movie, Garrison (portrayed by Kevin Costner) confronts Shaw (played by Tommy Lee Jones) with an Italian newspaper article exposing Shaw’s role as a CIA operative. The confrontation, of course, never occurred in real life; yet the scene captures a hidden historical truth. The epicenter of Garrison’s prosecution, and the wellspring for his ultimate theory of the assassination, was the DA’s belief in a fantasy published by a Communist-owned Italian newspaper.”
It appears obvious to me that the disinformation intentionally deflected attention away from Cuba and Castro. And therefore I find it ironic that the Garrison memoir was put into Oliver Stone’s hands while he was in Cuba!
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Oliver Stone is, I want to say this accurately and in a way to avoid saying misleading information, he sympathizes often with the anti-American and anti-Capitalist view and I want to hold my tongue in saying pro-communist but it appears that way sometimes. For all I know, maybe he's right sometimes.
Director, producer, I am not always sure of but he was involved in the movie Wall Street, a story on capitalist greed, then, we have Platoon, and yes, the USA is sort of the bad guy. He's done a few other movies,
Scarface, written by Stone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_(1983_film) We know Tony Montana is a bad Cuban and we know, early in the picture, there is some film footage of Castro. The list probably goes on...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheOliverStone
He goes along with the Venezuelan government. I think if one looks at the situation in that country, the people are suffering... so, Yeah, he's a bit of a commie sympathizer. I'm sure some of his work though, is still palatable.
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Uh, any more rhetorical - for you - questions, Mr. Graves?
Having never viewed JFK ( the film) as some sort of history lesson - lots of good acting, good "period" piece - and having no respect for Garrison's "performance " in "real life", who cares who influenced them.
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Uh, any more rhetorical - for you - questions, Mr. Graves?
Having never viewed JFK ( the film) as some sort of history lesson - lots of good acting, good "period" piece - and having no respect for Garrison's "performance " in "real life", who cares who influenced them.
Tonkovich,
I saw it right after it came out, and now I realize it was an anti-America propaganda piece by the virtual pimp known as Oliver "I Like KGB Mafia Boy Putin and My Son Works For RT" Stone.
-- MWT ;)
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Interesting article! Here’s an excerpt that I find interesting:
“None of this seemed to matter, least of all to the CIA, until the publisher of Garrison’s memoir thrust a copy into the hands of filmmaker Oliver Stone during an international film festival in Cuba.[68] That chance encounter eventually led to the endorsement of Paese Sera’s disinformation by a major Hollywood film, JFK. In the movie, Garrison (portrayed by Kevin Costner) confronts Shaw (played by Tommy Lee Jones) with an Italian newspaper article exposing Shaw’s role as a CIA operative. The confrontation, of course, never occurred in real life; yet the scene captures a hidden historical truth. The epicenter of Garrison’s prosecution, and the wellspring for his ultimate theory of the assassination, was the DA’s belief in a fantasy published by a Communist-owned Italian newspaper.”
It appears obvious to me that the disinformation intentionally deflected attention away from Cuba and Castro. And therefore I find it ironic that the Garrison memoir was put into Oliver Stone’s hands while he was in Cuba!
Charles,
Another interesting thing involving Cuba and the KGB as they relate to the JFK assassination is the fact that KGB Colonel Nikolai Leonov, the guy whom Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue in 1978 described to a "T" as being the "Oswald" he'd dealt with ON WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 25TH OR THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 26TH was the dude who had turned Raul Castro onto Soviet Communism in 1953 while Raul was returning to Cuba by boat after attending a Young Communists' convention in ... gasp ... Italy, and then later Raul introduced Leonov to ... gasp ... Che Guevara in Cuba in 1955, iirc.
-- MWT ;)
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Charles,
Another interesting thing involving Cuba and the KGB as they relate to the JFK assassination is the fact that KGB Colonel Nikolai Leonov, the guy whom Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue in 1978 described to a "T" as being the "Oswald" he'd dealt with ON WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 25TH OR THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 26TH was the dude who had turned Raul Castro onto Soviet Communism in 1953 while Raul was returning to Cuba by boat after attending a Young Communists' convention in ... gasp ... Italy, and then later Raul introduced Leonov to ... gasp ... Che Guevara in Cuba in 1955, iirc.
-- MWT ;)
Che was not in Cuba in 1955. He was in Mexico. He very well could have met Leonov in Mexico.
Che witnessed Operation PBSUCCESS and PBFORTUNE in Guatemala in 1954, which led him to the 26 July folks in Mexico.
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Che was not in Cuba in 1955. He was in Mexico. He very well could have met Leonov in Mexico.
Che witnessed Operation PBSUCCESS and PBFORTUNE in Guatemala in 1954, which led him to the 26 July folks in Mexico.
Nice catch.
The point is, though, that short, blond, skinny, very thin-faced Nikolai Leonov turned both Raul and Che onto Soviet-style Communism, and a few years later, when he was a KGB colonel working as "Third Secretary" and "Assistant Cultural Attache" at the Soviet embassy in Mexico City, probably gave Sylvia Duran or Azcue some passport-sized photos of Oswald that had been taken in the USSR, and maybe even some forged-by-KGB Cuban visa application forms based on writing / printing samples from Oswald's letters, etc, and told Duran, Mirabal and Azcue what to do and say (all with Fidel Castro's blessings, one would think).
During his June, 1975, Church Committee testimony, Angleton tried to point out that Leonov's business card or calling card was found in Castro's notebook when he and Che, et al., were arrested in Mexico City in 1956.
-- MWT ;)
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Charles,
Another interesting thing involving Cuba and the KGB as they relate to the JFK assassination is the fact that KGB Colonel Nikolai Leonov, the guy whom Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue in 1978 described to a "T" as being the "Oswald" he'd dealt with ON WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 25TH OR THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 26TH was the dude who had turned Raul Castro onto Soviet Communism in 1953 while Raul was returning to Cuba by boat after attending a Young Communists' convention in ... gasp ... Italy, and then later Raul introduced Leonov to ... gasp ... Che Guevara in Cuba in 1955, iirc.
-- MWT ;)
The Oliver Stone movie inspired me to begin my own research. Before that, I was intrigued, but I wasn’t interested enough to get more involved. The first books that I read tried to convince the readers that American leaders such as LBJ, JEH, etc were responsible for the assassination. They cashed in on the distrust of authority that has become so fashionable in my lifetime. For years I thought that it could have happened that way, but there just wasn’t anything more than conjecture and innuendo to support the ideas. A new approach with an open mind to the official report convinced me that LHO was responsible for the assassination. And that he most likely had no assistance. However, there is some evidence that suggests that the Cubans knew that there was going to be an assassination attempt beforehand. I suggest that people should learn more about Castro and compare his prior behavior and motivations to the other’s. Guerrilla Prince by Georgie Anne Geyer is a great place to do just that.
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The Oliver Stone movie inspired me to begin my own research. Before that, I was intrigued, but I wasn’t interested enough to get more involved. The first books that I read tried to convince the readers that American leaders such as LBJ, JEH, etc were responsible for the assassination. They cashed in on the distrust of authority that has become so fashionable in my lifetime. For years I thought that it could have happened that way, but there just wasn’t anything more than conjecture and innuendo to support the ideas. A new approach with an open mind to the official report convinced me that LHO was responsible for the assassination. And that he most likely had no assistance. However, there is some evidence that suggests that the Cubans knew that there was going to be an assassination attempt beforehand. I suggest that people should learn more about Castro and compare his prior behavior and motivations to the other’s. Guerrilla Prince by Georgie Anne Geyer is a great place to do just that.
Unfortunately, the Oliver Stone movie inspired a lot of people.
-- MWT ;)
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Unfortunately, the Oliver Stone movie inspired a lot of people.
-- MWT ;)
Yep, I agree. I have written a letter to Ken Burns requesting that he consider producing one of his excellent documentaries about the JFK assassination. He replied that he is too busy. Maybe if he gets enough requests he might consider it. That would be a good antidote to Stone’s movie.
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More than anything, I'd say JFK sparked more interest in the subject and helped get the classified information, a lot of it released. Take the good with the bad.
Stone's movie is pretty exciting vs. the usual fair of computer graphics OR rifle tests....and on the other hand, I'd say some parts of JFK have not aged well.
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More than anything, I'd say JFK sparked more interest in the subject and helped get the classified information, a lot of it released. Take the good with the bad.
Stone's movie is pretty exciting vs. the usual fair of computer graphics OR rifle tests....and on the other hand, I'd say some parts of JFK have not aged well.
Oliver Stone inadvertently(?) advanced the cause of the "KGB" and made a buck at the same time.
By playing fast and loose with the facts on the silver screen, Stone rekindled the interest of gullible people in Garrison's anti-CIA, Commie-influenced "investigation," thereby giving tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theorists grist for their anti- "Military Industrial Itelligence Community Complex" / "Deep State" mill.
And I give you President Donald J. Trump ...
-- MWT ;)
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Nothing greatly coincidental or anything here, but we had our spring cleanup in early April, I didn't want to get rid of stuff really but I did figure, it was now time to get rid of some of my videos, so out went my copies of "JFK", "13 Days" and "Wallace", well people curb pick during that time of year, I helped this one fellow with packing some things into his truck including an '80s video game which was really bulky. Well we got to talking and it turns out, this guy was a Freedom Rider back in the day or at least, that's what he told me and I believed him but the timeline threw me off a little, according to wikipedia, the movement dates to 1961 I guess.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Riders
And he said his VCR(s) worked still... so out went quite a few videos including "Gladiator" which is pretty entertaining.
(https://fanart.tv/fanart/movies/11973/moviethumb/thirteen-days-5764281300a41.jpg)
So, I think my videos went to a good place... "13 days" is sort of a slow moving movie to me, didn't really captivate me but my knowledge on the Cuban Missile Crisis is the basics. The actors certainly were top rate.
I've got to say too, my used copy of "13 days" was during the time, DVDs were coming into style, I never got to watch it enough, maybe 2 or 3 times. I wish I had watched it more. I guess, I was a bit busy.
General Lemay is in "13 days", he was quite a character. I know he is probably looked at as "Wallace's running mate" in 1968, but Lemay was actually quite important in World War II in the South Pacific. So, quite an interesting individual again, I do not know a lot about but the basics.
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Were Jim Garrison and Oliver Stone taken in by KGB disinformation?
It sure looks that way to me.
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/fall_winter_2001/article02.html#_ftnref70
-- MWT ;)
Yep, America is full of gullible people, and the jerks like Garrison and Stone who prey on them in their striving to be in the limelight and /or to make a buck, not caring how much damage they do to our psyche and our body politic along the way.
The "KGB" has ben taking advantage of us through these jackals for a long, long time, indeed.
-- MWT ;)
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Stone's like Pink Floyd's Roger Waters IMHO... yes, they may make some good money, this pertaining really to Stone and not Waters that much but I think they are both "ideologues".... I'm sure others fit the bill too. All this just my opinion....
Is one curious about a website both of these two actually recommends, for news that is ? It's "Gray Zone" where Max Blumenthal is one of their main writers. Blumenthal might even be a founder.
Blumenthal: https://thegrayzone.com/author/max-blumenthal/
Home page: https://thegrayzone.com/
Not my cup of tea.....
And I can dig up information as to why I say they both recommend this website.
They are "ideologues", but it's not to say they have the same outlooks... at least, I've never heard of Stone being for BDS (Boycott, Diviest, Sanction Israel) as Waters is for.
Stone is a combat vet from Vietnam. So, he's gained respect of many, even if they disagree with him.
He has the movie over the old Yugoslavian war, "Saviour", he is a bit imho, more positive about the Serbian side, then, he did that movie "Salvador"... anyway, I'm not going to analyze everything he's done.
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Stone's like Pink Floyd's Roger Waters IMHO... yes, they may make some good money, this pertaining really to Stone and not Waters that much but I think they are both "ideologues".... I'm sure others fit the bill too. All this just my opinion....
Is one curious about a website both of these two actually recommends, for news that is ? It's "Gray Zone" where Max Blumenthal is one of their main writers. Blumenthal might even be a founder.
Blumenthal: https://thegrayzone.com/author/max-blumenthal/
Home page: https://thegrayzone.com/
Not my cup of tea.....
And I can dig up information as to why I say they both recommend this website.
They are "ideologues", but it's not to say they have the same outlooks... at least, I've never heard of Stone being for BDS (Boycott, Diviest, Sanction Israel) as Waters is for.
Stone is a combat vet from Vietnam. So, he's gained respect of many, even if they disagree with him.
He has the movie over the old Yugoslavian war, "Saviour", he is a bit imho, more positive about the Serbian side, then, he did that movie "Salvador"... anyway, I'm not going to analyze everything he's done.
Richard,
Ever considered getting into Performance Art, or Gonzo Journalism?
Regardless, if you need a job and are feeling particularly "patriotic," there's probably a position just waiting for you at RT and/or the Saint Petersburg (Russia) Internet Research Agency.
-- MWT ;)