JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Ross Lidell on April 12, 2020, 01:32:31 AM
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Virtually every critic of the Warren Commission and writer of conspiracy books ignores the requirement for an alternative 6th floor shooter. If not Oswald, someone who used Oswald's rifle to assassinate President Kennedy.
There was a 6th floor TSBD shooter -- Oswald or a hit-man. He would have had the same difficulties that Oswald did in escaping the crime scene.
For all claims of "impossibility" for Oswald being the assassin, the real 6th floor shooter is equally affected.
Officer Marion Baker (accompanied by Mr. Truly) went up the back stairs of the TSBD a little more than a minute after the shots were fired. Baker found Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room. Reconstructions have demonstrated that its possible to get from the 6th floor sniper's nest to the 2nd floor lunch room in less than 90 seconds. Even if this is disputed by conspiracy theorists, a similar time frame exists for the real 6th floor shooter. How did he get past Baker and Truly on the stairwell and escape the TSBD? If there truly was a conspiracy: The plotters would require a foolproof plan in which their shooter could escape from the crime scene without being captured or even seen by a witness.
There would need to be accomplices who would prevent employees being inside the TSBD before, during and after the time of the assassination. Every floor up to the 6th (and even the 7th) would be off limits to everyone except the shooter and his helpers plus Oswald. This did not happen.
An innocent Oswald would need to be restrained prior to and during the assassination. It did not happen because Oswald never explained this to his interrogators and never "blabbed" this scenario to the press (in front of cameras and microphones) at City Hall.
No professional hit-man would accept a contract to assassinate President Kennedy. The chance of committing the crime and avoiding capture is so slight that no amount of money would be worth the risk.
An inside job is far more plausible. Oswald had the advantage of legitimately being anywhere in the TSBD after the assassination. That's why Officer Baker let Oswald go due to Truly vouching for his employee. Officer Baker would have arrested the real 6th floor shooter.
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Best way to escape would be to shoot from the DalTex building.
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Best way to escape would be to shoot from the DalTex building.
You ignored the difficulties related to the TSBD which was the source of the shots that killed President Kennedy. Escaping from the Daltex building is not an escape from the TSBD. No need to escape from there because no shots were fired from there.
All the problems outlined for the TSBD would have existed for the Daltex building.
An assassination of JFK by a conspiracy would only have worked from an abandoned building.
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You ignored the difficulties related to the TSBD which was the source of the shots that killed President Kennedy. Escaping from the Daltex building is not an escape from the TSBD. No need to escape from there because no shots were fired from there.
All the problems outlined for the TSBD would have existed for the Daltex building.
An assassination of JFK by a conspiracy would only have worked from an abandoned building.
I mean the shooter should have fired from the DalTex building and framed Oswald by having his rifle planted on the 6th floor of the TSBD.
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This opening thread is moronic.
Victoria Adams & Sandra Styles didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs. Now what?
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I mean the shooter should have fired from the DalTex building and framed Oswald by having his rifle planted on the 6th floor of the TSBD.
The Daltex shooter's bullets would not be matched to Oswald's Carcano rifle. This would have revealed a conspiracy and Oswald could not be blamed as the sole assassin.
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Virtually every critic of the Warren Commission and writer of conspiracy books ignores the requirement for an alternative 6th floor shooter. If not Oswald, someone who used Oswald's rifle to assassinate President Kennedy.
There was a 6th floor TSBD shooter -- Oswald or a hit-man. He would have had the same difficulties that Oswald did in escaping the crime scene.
For all claims of "impossibility" for Oswald being the assassin, the real 6th floor shooter is equally affected.
Officer Marion Baker (accompanied by Mr. Truly) went up the back stairs of the TSBD a little more than a minute after the shots were fired. Baker found Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room. Reconstructions have demonstrated that its possible to get from the 6th floor sniper's nest to the 2nd floor lunch room in less than 90 seconds. Even if this is disputed by conspiracy theorists, a similar time frame exists for the real 6th floor shooter. How did he get past Baker and Truly on the stairwell and escape the TSBD? If there truly was a conspiracy: The plotters would require a foolproof plan in which their shooter could escape from the crime scene without being captured or even seen by a witness.
There would need to be accomplices who would prevent employees being inside the TSBD before, during and after the time of the assassination. Every floor up to the 6th (and even the 7th) would be off limits to everyone except the shooter and his helpers plus Oswald. This did not happen.
An innocent Oswald would need to be restrained prior to and during the assassination. It did not happen because Oswald never explained this to his interrogators and never "blabbed" this scenario to the press (in front of cameras and microphones) at City Hall.
No professional hit-man would accept a contract to assassinate President Kennedy. The chance of committing the crime and avoiding capture is so slight that no amount of money would be worth the risk.
An inside job is far more plausible. Oswald had the advantage of legitimately being anywhere in the TSBD after the assassination. That's why Officer Baker let Oswald go due to Truly vouching for his employee. Officer Baker would have arrested the real 6th floor shooter.
Way too many assumptions as a starting point.
It assumes the rifle found at the TSBD belonged to Oswald and that shots were indeed fired from the 6th floor.
It also assumes that another killer would have needed to come down the stairs that Baker and Truly were on.
It assumes that no professional hit-man would accept a contract to assassinate President Kennedy.
And it assumes that Baker would have seen the real shooter on the 6th floor.
With all these assumptions the entire thing has become an insignificant hypothetical scenario with a pre-determined conclusion build in.
And worst of all, it completely ignores other possibilities like this one; even if we assume Kennedy's killer did shoot from the 6th floor. Why would he do the obvious and instantly flee the building, when he also can hide and mingle with the crowd that he could reasonably assume would invade the building. All he needed to do is dress like a police officer, have a fake or perhaps even a real badge and act like a cop. With so many people around who did not belong in the building he would not stand out. All he needed to do is make his way down the stairs when the cops are upstairs and simply walk out of the building.
Now, you tell, as I am sure you will, why such a scenario wouldn't work?
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Then the assassin should have used some type of frangible round. Some type of modified carcano bullets that would disintegrate on impact. Remember, the Walker bullet could not be traced to Oswalds rifle. So technically, such a feat could have been achieved (theoretically speaking of course).
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The Daltex shooter's bullets would not be matched to Oswald's Carcano rifle. This would have revealed a conspiracy and Oswald could not be blamed as the sole assassin.
Unless the conspirators also controlled the cover up, in which case they would simply switch the shells. Who knows, perhaps they even did. There is a report that says Fritz picked up the shells and they were later thrown back into the snipers nest. Where they the same shells? Ever thought of that, genius?
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This opening thread is moronic.
Victoria Adams & Sandra Styles didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs. Now what?
Victoria Adams & Sandra Styles didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs. Now what?
The Adams & Sandra Styles "didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs" excuse was designed to try and prove Lee Harvey was not on the 6th floor at the time the assassination shots were fired. No believer in this "theory" ever explained how Adams & Styles failed to see the escaping real 6th floor shooter. Maybe you can explain how Mr hit-man was not seen by the women, considering the same time constraints would apply to him as well as Oswald. Now what?
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Way too many assumptions as a starting point.
It assumes the rifle found at the TSBD belonged to Oswald and that shots were indeed fired from the 6th floor.
It also assumes that another killer would have needed to come down the stairs that Baker and Truly were on.
It assumes that no professional hit-man would accept a contract to assassinate President Kennedy.
And it assumes that Baker would have seen the real shooter on the 6th floor.
With all these assumptions the entire thing has become an insignificant hypothetical scenario with a pre-determined conclusion build in.
And worst of all, it completely ignores other possibilities like this one; even if we assume Kennedy's killer did shoot from the 6th floor. Why would he do the obvious and instantly flee the building, when he also can hide and mingle with the crowd that he could reasonably assume would invade the building. All he needed to do is dress like a police officer, have a fake or perhaps even a real badge and act like a cop. With so many people around who did not belong in the building he would not stand out. All he needed to do is make his way down the stairs when the cops are upstairs and simply walk out of the building.
Now, you tell, as I am sure you will, why such a scenario wouldn't work?
And worst of all, it completely ignores other possibilities like this one; even if we assume Kennedy's killer did shoot from the 6th floor. Why would he do the obvious and instantly flee the building, when he also can hide and mingle with the crowd that he could reasonably assume would invade the building. All he needed to do is dress like a police officer, have a fake or perhaps even a real badge and act like a cop. With so many people around who did not belong in the building he would not stand out. All he needed to do is make his way down the stairs when the cops are upstairs and simply walk out of the building.
Way too many assumptions.
Incidentally: What you describe never happened.
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Unless the conspirators also controlled the cover up, in which case they would simply switch the shells. Who knows, perhaps they even did. There is a report that says Fritz picked up the shells and they were later thrown back into the snipers nest. Where they the same shells? Ever thought of that, genius?
You think Fritz might have been the assassin in the DalTex building?
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Unless the conspirators also controlled the cover up, in which case they would simply switch the shells. Who knows, perhaps they even did. There is a report that says Fritz picked up the shells and they were later thrown back into the snipers nest. Where they the same shells? Ever thought of that, genius?
There is a report that says Fritz picked up the shells and they were later thrown back into the snipers nest. Where they the same shells? Ever thought of that, genius?
I was talking about the bullets (projectiles) and they were not found at the TSBD. This renders your theory--nonsense.
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Victoria Adams & Sandra Styles didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs. Now what?
The Adams & Sandra Styles "didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs" excuse was designed to try and prove Lee Harvey was not on the 6th floor at the time the assassination shots were fired. No believer in this "theory" ever explained how Adams & Styles failed to see the escaping real 6th floor shooter. Maybe you can explain how Mr hit-man was not seen by the women, considering the same time constraints would apply to him as well as Oswald. Now what?
You claim There was a 6th floor TSBD shooter. And ''Baker found Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room. Reconstructions have demonstrated that its possible to get from the 6th floor sniper's nest to the 2nd floor lunch room in less than 90 seconds.''
Yet witnesses claim to have not seen or heard anyone on the stairs during the timings you cite. So are we just conveniently ignoring these witnesses for our personal assassination beliefs?
Now what?
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Then the assassin should have used some type of frangible round. Some type of modified carcano bullets that would disintegrate on impact. Remember, the Walker bullet could not be traced to Oswalds rifle. So technically, such a feat could have been achieved (theoretically speaking of course).
No bullet was ever traced to the MC rifle, except of course CE399 but that his it's own problems.
Of the three bullets fired at the car, one missed and was lost, the second exploded in Kennedy's head and the third one was allegedly CE399, despite the fact that the bullet fragments recovered at Parkland combined with those still left in Connally's body were more than the damage to CE399.
Other fragments of bullets were allegedly found in the limo, but this we will also never know for sure, because when the FBI Forensic team arrived at the Secret Service garage to examine the limo, they were told it had already been done and they were given some bullet fragments that supposedly came from the car.
The only match there could have been was with the shells found at the 6th floor, and they also have their own problems.....
But I'm sure none of this will stop Ross from repeating his arguments.
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Way too many assumptions as a starting point.
It assumes the rifle found at the TSBD belonged to Oswald and that shots were indeed fired from the 6th floor.
It also assumes that another killer would have needed to come down the stairs that Baker and Truly were on.
It assumes that no professional hit-man would accept a contract to assassinate President Kennedy.
And it assumes that Baker would have seen the real shooter on the 6th floor.
With all these assumptions the entire thing has become an insignificant hypothetical scenario with a pre-determined conclusion build in.
And worst of all, it completely ignores other possibilities like this one; even if we assume Kennedy's killer did shoot from the 6th floor. Why would he do the obvious and instantly flee the building, when he also can hide and mingle with the crowd that he could reasonably assume would invade the building. All he needed to do is dress like a police officer, have a fake or perhaps even a real badge and act like a cop. With so many people around who did not belong in the building he would not stand out. All he needed to do is make his way down the stairs when the cops are upstairs and simply walk out of the building.
Now, you tell, as I am sure you will, why such a scenario wouldn't work?
You have not explained away the need for the TSBD to be "secured" by the conspirators before and during the assassination.
You have not explained away the need for Oswald to be restrained (by the conspirators) before and during the assassination.
Oswald cannot be permitted to be free to come and go lest he walk outside to look at the motorcade or someone comes inside just before the shots were fired and sees him. Lee Oswald (the patsy) cannot be permitted to have an iron-clad alibi.
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And worst of all, it completely ignores other possibilities like this one; even if we assume Kennedy's killer did shoot from the 6th floor. Why would he do the obvious and instantly flee the building, when he also can hide and mingle with the crowd that he could reasonably assume would invade the building. All he needed to do is dress like a police officer, have a fake or perhaps even a real badge and act like a cop. With so many people around who did not belong in the building he would not stand out. All he needed to do is make his way down the stairs when the cops are upstairs and simply walk out of the building.
Way too many assumptions.
Incidentally: What you describe never happened.
Translation: I have nothing to counter except of course that Oswald was the shooter and he did run down the stairs, so another hitman must have done the same.
I've just given you another scenario which shows your little theory is wrong. And you don't know it never happened. You were not there and the trick for the other hitman would be not to be noticed!
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You think Fritz might have been the assassin in the DalTex building?
No
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There is a report that says Fritz picked up the shells and they were later thrown back into the snipers nest. Where they the same shells? Ever thought of that, genius?
I was talking about the bullets (projectiles) and they were not found at the TSBD. This renders your theory--nonsense.
No bullet fragments were ever matched to the MC rifle.
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You claim There was a 6th floor TSBD shooter. And ''Baker found Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room. Reconstructions have demonstrated that its possible to get from the 6th floor sniper's nest to the 2nd floor lunch room in less than 90 seconds.''
Yet witnesses claim to have not seen or heard anyone on the stairs during the timings you cite. So are we just conveniently ignoring these witnesses for our personal assassination beliefs?
Now what?
Now what?
Same problems (stairs timing) existed for the real 6th floor shooter as did for Oswald. Now what?
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You claim There was a 6th floor TSBD shooter. And ''Baker found Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room. Reconstructions have demonstrated that its possible to get from the 6th floor sniper's nest to the 2nd floor lunch room in less than 90 seconds.''
Yet witnesses claim to have not seen or heard anyone on the stairs during the timings you cite. So are we just conveniently ignoring these witnesses for our personal assassination beliefs?
Now what?
So are we just conveniently ignoring these witnesses for our personal assassination beliefs?
Yes, that's what Ross does all the time..... This is not a discussion thread. Not really.... Ross started it to get his message out and he will never ever accept anything anybody has to say that disagrees with his theory.
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No bullet was ever traced to the MC rifle, except of course CE399 but that his it's own problems.
Of the three bullets fired at the car, one missed and was lost, the second exploded in Kennedy's head and the third one was allegedly CE399, despite the fact that the bullet fragments recovered at Parkland combined with those still left in Connally's body were more than the damage to CE399.
Other fragments of bullets were allegedly found in the limo, but this we will also never know for sure, because when the FBI Forensic team arrived at the Secret Service garage to examine the limo, they were told it had already been done and they were given some bullet fragments that supposedly came from the car.
The only match there could have been was with the shells found at the 6th floor, and they also have their own problems.....
But I'm sure none of this will stop Ross from repeating his arguments.
So the real 6th floor assassin (you don't accept that it's Oswald) used a different rifle than Oswald's Carcano? What rifle was that?
Of the three bullets fired at the car, one missed and was lost, the second exploded in Kennedy's head and the third one was allegedly CE399, despite the fact that the bullet fragments recovered at Parkland combined with those still left in Connally's body were more than the damage to CE399.
The tiny flecks of metal left in Governor Connally's wrist were never measured. It's not possible to calculate the total weight of the bullet before it was fired; so you have a theory not proof.
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No bullet fragments were ever matched to the MC rifle.
No bullet fragments were ever matched to the MC rifle.
Do you have proof of that?
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You have not explained away the need for the TSBD to be "secured" by the conspirators before and during the assassination.
You have not explained away the need for Oswald to be restrained (by the conspirators) before and during the assassination.
Oswald cannot be permitted to be free to come and go lest he walk outside to look at the motorcade or someone comes inside just before the shots were fired and sees him. Lee Oswald (the patsy) cannot be permitted to have an iron-clad alibi.
You have not explained away the need for the TSBD to be "secured" by the conspirators before and during the assassination.
That need only exists in your imagination. We are talking about one man slipping into a near empty building because nearly everybody was outside watching the President. If the assassin ran into anybody he could easily abort.
You have not explained away the need for Oswald to be restrained (by the conspirators) before and during the assassination.
"I'll meet you at the luchroom on the second floor at 12.30"... That would be all it would take...
Oswald cannot be permitted to be free to come and go lest he walk outside to look at the motorcade or someone comes inside just before the shots were fired and sees him. Lee Oswald (the patsy) cannot be permitted to have an iron-clad alibi.
When the conspirators also control the cover up, there would be no problem. Witnesses that say they saw him could be persuaded that they were mistaken or they could simply be ignored, as was done with Carolyn Arnold, Dorothy Garner and others.
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This opening thread is moronic.
Victoria Adams & Sandra Styles didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs. Now what?
This opening thread is moronic.
Are you sure you didn't mean "ironic"?
No that's not possible: You're not intelligent enough.
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So the real 6th floor assassin (you don't accept that it's Oswald) used a different rifle than Oswald's Carcano? What rifle was that?
Of the three bullets fired at the car, one missed and was lost, the second exploded in Kennedy's head and the third one was allegedly CE399, despite the fact that the bullet fragments recovered at Parkland combined with those still left in Connally's body were more than the damage to CE399.
The tiny flecks of metal left in Governor Connally's wrist were never measured. It's not possible to calculate the total weight of the bullet before it was fired; so you have a theory not proof.
So the real 6th floor assassin (you don't accept that it's Oswald) used a different rifle than Oswald's Carcano? What rifle was that?
Stop the strawman crap. I never said any of this. We are in hypothetical mode since the opening post had way too many assumptions for any other kind of discussion.
The tiny flecks of metal left in Governor Connally's wrist were never measured. It's not possible to calculate the total weight of the bullet before it was fired; so you have a theory not proof.
The fragments recovered from Connally's arm at Parkland hospital by themselves were enough to reach the conclusion. The main point was that none of the three bullets that were allegedly fired from the 6th floor were ever matched to the MC rifle.
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You have not explained away the need for the TSBD to be "secured" by the conspirators before and during the assassination.
That need only exists in your imagination. We are talking about one man slipping into a near empty building because nearly everybody was outside watching the President. If the assassin ran into anybody he could easily abort.
You have not explained away the need for Oswald to be restrained (by the conspirators) before and during the assassination.
"I'll meet you at the luchroom on the second floor at 12.30"... That would be all it would take...
Oswald cannot be permitted to be free to come and go lest he walk outside to look at the motorcade or someone comes inside just before the shots were fired and sees him. Lee Oswald (the patsy) cannot be permitted to have an iron-clad alibi.
When the conspirators also control the cover up, there would be no problem. Witnesses that say they saw him could be persuaded that they were mistaken or they could simply be ignored, as was done with Carolyn Arnold, Dorothy Garner and others.
You have not explained away the need for the TSBD to be "secured" by the conspirators before and during the assassination.
That need only exists in your imagination. We are talking about one man slipping into a near empty building because nearly everybody was outside watching the President. If the assassin ran into anybody he could easily abort.
How would the real 6th floor shooter know that the building would be "near empty"?
A paid assassin could not abort.
You have not explained away the need for Oswald to be restrained (by the conspirators) before and during the assassination.
"I'll meet you at the luchroom on the second floor at 12.30"... That would be all it would take...
Did Lee Harvey Oswald wear a watch? Kind of a vague way to run a precision assassination plot.
Oswald cannot be permitted to be free to come and go lest he walk outside to look at the motorcade or someone comes inside just before the shots were fired and sees him. Lee Oswald (the patsy) cannot be permitted to have an iron-clad alibi.
When the conspirators also control the cover up, there would be no problem. Witnesses that say they saw him could be persuaded that they were mistaken or they could simply be ignored, as was done with Carolyn Arnold, Dorothy Garner and others.
A lot of assumptions there. Which conspirators? What coverup?
Oh my God... Weidmann's on to something!!!
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No bullet fragments were ever matched to the MC rifle.
Do you have proof of that?
Asking for a negative to be proven is a sign of weakness.
If you feel the bullet fragments were matched to the MC rifle than you need to prove that. If you don't feel that your comment;
The Daltex shooter's bullets would not be matched to Oswald's Carcano rifle. This would have revealed a conspiracy and Oswald could not be blamed as the sole assassin.
was nothing more than hot air.
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This opening thread is moronic.
Are you sure you didn't mean "ironic"?
No that's not possible: You're not intelligent enough.
You're not intelligent enough.
Look who is talking :D
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You have not explained away the need for the TSBD to be "secured" by the conspirators before and during the assassination.
That need only exists in your imagination. We are talking about one man slipping into a near empty building because nearly everybody was outside watching the President. If the assassin ran into anybody he could easily abort.
How would the real 6th floor shooter know that the building would be "near empty"?
A paid assassin could not abort.
Know many paid assassins, do you?
You have not explained away the need for Oswald to be restrained (by the conspirators) before and during the assassination[/u].
"I'll meet you at the luchroom on the second floor at 12.30"... That would be all it would take...
Did Lee Harvey Oswald wear a watch? Kind of a vague way to run a precision assassination plot.
There were no clocks at the TSBD?
Oswald cannot be permitted to be free to come and go lest he walk outside to look at the motorcade or someone comes inside just before the shots were fired and sees him. Lee Oswald (the patsy) cannot be permitted to have an iron-clad alibi.
When the conspirators also control the cover up, there would be no problem. Witnesses that say they saw him could be persuaded that they were mistaken or they could simply be ignored, as was done with Carolyn Arnold, Dorothy Garner and others.
A lot of assumptions there. Which conspirators? What coverup?
Oh my God... Weidmann's on to something!!!
This entire thread is about assumptions.... Mainly yours!
And I am indeed on to something; your inability to have a normal conversation without misrepresentations, making up stuff, strawman tactics and an unwillingness to consider counter arguments.
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So the real 6th floor assassin (you don't accept that it's Oswald) used a different rifle than Oswald's Carcano? What rifle was that?
Stop the strawman crap. I never said any of this. We are in hypothetical mode since the opening post had way too many assumptions for any other kind of discussion.
The tiny flecks of metal left in Governor Connally's wrist were never measured. It's not possible to calculate the total weight of the bullet before it was fired; so you have a theory not proof.
The fragments recovered from Connally's arm at Parkland hospital by themselves were enough to reach the conclusion. The main point was that none of the three bullets that were allegedly fired from the 6th floor were ever matched to the MC rifle.
So the real 6th floor assassin (you don't accept that it's Oswald) used a different rifle than Oswald's Carcano? What rifle was that?
Stop the strawman crap. I never said any of this. We are in hypothetical mode since the opening post had way too many assumptions for any other kind of discussion.
Not a strawman: Holding you to a responsibility to provide a realistic alternative scenario to the the historical record which you do not believe. You don't appear to believe Oswald's Carcano was the assassination weapon. You can either admit that it was or posit some other gun. Something like: "There was another gun but I don't know what it was" will do.
The fragments recovered from Connally's arm at Parkland hospital by themselves were enough to reach the conclusion.
Not true. No measurement, no absolute conclusion. You're just guessing.
The main point was that none of the three bullets that were allegedly fired from the 6th floor were ever matched to the MC rifle.
One almost whole bullet and two pieces of one bullet were matched to Oswald's Carcano rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons. By whom? Frazier of the FBI and Nicol of the Illinois Bureau of Criminal Investigation.
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You're not intelligent enough.
Look who is talking :D
Limp riposte Marty.
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Know many paid assassins, do you?
There were no clocks at the TSBD?
This entire thread is about assumptions.... Mainly yours!
And I am indeed on to something; your inability to have a normal conversation without misrepresentations, making up stuff, strawman tactics and an unwillingness to consider counter arguments.
Know many paid assassins, do you?
What do you mean by that immaterial statement?
There were no clocks at the TSBD?
Were they accurate?
This entire thread is about assumptions.... Mainly yours!
Of course there are assumptions. If Lee Harvey Oswald was not the 6th floor assassin, some other shooter has to be. That's a logical assumption.
... an unwillingness to consider counter arguments.
What's your argument?
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So the real 6th floor assassin (you don't accept that it's Oswald) used a different rifle than Oswald's Carcano? What rifle was that?
Stop the strawman crap. I never said any of this. We are in hypothetical mode since the opening post had way too many assumptions for any other kind of discussion.
Not a strawman: Holding you to a responsibility to provide a realistic alternative scenario to the the historical record which you do not believe. You don't appear to believe Oswald's Carcano was the assassination weapon. You can either admit that it was or posit some other gun. Something like: "There was another gun but I don't know what it was" will do.
Please STFU about proof.... You only demand proof but never provide. I have no responsibility to which you can hold me to. I am not dancing to the crappy music you play on a daily basis.
I never said that I believe the Carcano was not the assassination weapon. It could have been, but I don't know and the evidence for it is very weak indeed. I also do not know whether the Corcano found on the 6th floor belonged to Oswald. Again, I simply do not know and the evidence that it was is simply not persuasive enough. But I better stop now, because otherwise your little mind might explode....
The fragments recovered from Connally's arm at Parkland hospital by themselves were enough to reach the conclusion.
Not true. No measurement no absolute conclusion. You're just guessing.
Well guessing is something you know everything about, so I'll bow to your vast experience in that field.
The main point was that none of the three bullets that were allegedly fired from the 6th floor were ever matched to the MC rifle.
One almost whole bullet and two pieces of one bullet were matched to Oswald's Carcano rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons. By whom? Frazier of the FBI and Nicol of the Illinois Bureau of Criminal Investigation.
One almost whole bullet and two pieces of one bullet were matched to Oswald's Carcano rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons.
Who put another dime in the freakin' machine? It's playing the same old crappy song again.
You simply will not listen or even try to understand. There is no evidence that CE399 was fired on 11/22/63 and there is no evidence that the bullet fragments given to Frazier, which they told him were removed from the limo prior to his forensic examination, were in fact bullet fragments from the limo.
In other words, you need to assume first that CE399 was indeed fired buy the MC rifle in 11/22/63 and that the bullet fragments did indeed come from the limo, before you can make any kind of claim. Now go and get a wet towel and try to keep cool when you try to process this information.... on the other hand, never mind. You will dismiss it outright anyway
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Know many paid assassins, do you?
What do you mean by that immaterial statement?
You made the idiotic claim that "A paid assassin could not abort.".... now either you watch too many movies or you know at least one paid assassin. Or, alternatively, you just made it up for the sake of argument. What is it?
By the way, it was a question, not a statement. You do know what a question mark means, don't you?
There were no clocks at the TSBD?
Were they accurate?
Does it matter?
This entire thread is about assumptions.... Mainly yours!
Of course there are assumptions. If Lee Harvey Oswald was not the 6th floor assassin, some other shooter has to be. That's a logical assumption.
Why is that a "logical" assumption? Let me guess, because you assume that the shots that killed Kennedy were fired from the 6th floor of the TSBD, right?
So, your "logical" assumption is only "logical" if the assumption it is based on is also "logical".... and so on..... Aren't assumptions fun?
... an unwillingness to consider counter arguments.
What's your argument?
Thanks for confirming my point
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Please STFU about proof.... You only demand proof but never provide. I have no responsibility to which you can hold me to. I am not dancing to the crappy music you play on a daily basis.
I never said that I believe the Carcano was not the assassination weapon. It could have been, but I don't know and the evidence for it is very weak indeed. I also do not know whether the Corcano found on the 6th floor belonged to Oswald. Again, I simply do not know and the evidence that is was is simply not persuasive enough. But I better stop now, because otherwise your little mind might explode....
Well guessing is something you know everything about, so I'll bow to your vast experience in that field.
One almost whole bullet and two pieces of one bullet were matched to Oswald's Carcano rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons.
Who put another dime in the freakin' machine? It's playing the same old crappy song again.
You simply will not listen or even try to understand. There is no evidence that CE399 was fired on 11/22/63 and there is no evidence that the bullet fragments given to Frazier, which they told him were removed from the limo prior to his forensic examination, were in fact bullet fragments from the limo.
In other words, you need to assume first that CE399 was indeed fired buy the MC rifle in 11/22/63 and that the bullet fragments did indeed come from the limo, before you can make any kind of claim. Now go and get a wet towl and try to keep cool when you try to process this information.... on the other hand, never mind. You will dismiss it outright anyway
You're losing it Marty. Why? Because you're not used to a mentally strong individual refusing to back down to your bluster.
You have no evidence to support your wild claims.
You don't understand that investigators reach "conclusions" based on the most likely possibility.
Without going into details (they are part of the historical record): The most likely conclusion is that CE399 was fired on 22 November 1963 at 12:30 PM (approximately) from Oswald's Carcano rifle. Any alternative scenario requires it to be fired in the same rifle previous to the time of the assassination. There is zero evidence for such a theory.
No investigator is going to discard the conclusion that CE399 is linked to the assassination and support unjustified speculation that it was fired previously and planted at Parkland Hospital.
Your problem (psychological) is that you think your dismissal of evidence related to the assassination of President Kennedy and the murder of J.D. Tippit does not require alternative explanations: It does.
Often, your dismissals of evidence require law enforcement officers to depart from previously good behavior and become part of a massive conspiracy to murder JFK--with no motive to do so. Like the veiled suggestion that Secret Service agents handed fake evidence to the FBI: Pieces of bullets ostensibly from the presidential limousine that were likely obtained somewhere else.
Other fragments of bullets were allegedly found in the limo, but this we will also never know for sure, because when the FBI Forensic team arrived at the Secret Service garage to examine the limo, they were told it had already been done and they were given some bullet fragments that supposedly came from the car.
So what's sinister about that? Was there an agreement that the Secret Service agents would wait for the FBI to come and conduct the search for evidence? Unless there was, the statement is immaterial. It's also delusional.
I've got your number Marty, have had for a long time. When debating (that's debatable!) you cunningly don't provide any details of "how, what, when, where, why, who": You simply dismiss all the evidence in the historical record because you don't like it. The alternative would be that you are a type of "troller" amusing yourself and imagining that you possess a great intellect.
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Now what?
Same problems (stairs timing) existed for the real 6th floor shooter as did for Oswald. Now what?
Here's the thing you're not getting, Ross. Oswald is the only one who has to be in the second floor lunchroom 75-90 seconds after the last shot. That requirement would not exist for any other shooter.
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You're losing it Marty. Why? Because you're not used to a mentally strong individual refusing to back down to your bluster.
You have no evidence to support your wild claims.
You don't understand that investigators reach "conclusions" based on the most likely possibility.
Without going into details (they are part of the historical record): The most likely conclusion is that CE399 was fired on 22 November 1963 at 12:30 PM (approximately) from Oswald's Carcano rifle. Any alternative scenario (which must exist) requires it to be fired in the same rifle previous to the time of the assassination. There is zero evidence for such a theory.
No investigator is going to discard the conclusion that CE399 is linked to the assassination and support unjustified speculation that it was fired previously and planted at Parkland Hospital.
Your problem (psychological) is that you think your dismissal of evidence related to the assassination of President Kennedy and the murder of J.D. Tippit does not require alternative explanations: They do.
Your dismissals of evidence require law enforcement officers to depart from previously good behavior and become part of a massive conspiracy to murder JFK--with no motive to do so. Like the veiled suggestion that Secret Service agents handing pieces of bullets from the presidential limousine to the FBI were not authentic but likely obtained somewhere else.
Other fragments of bullets were allegedly found in the limo, but this we will also never know for sure, because when the FBI Forensic team arrived at the Secret Service garage to examine the limo, they were told it had already been done and they were given some bullet fragments that supposedly came from the car.
So what's sinister about that? Was there an agreement that the Secret Service agents would wait for the FBI to come and conduct the search for evidence? Unless there was, the statement is immaterial. It's also delusional.
I've got your number Marty, have had for a long time. When debating (that's debatable!) you cunningly don't provide any details of "how, what, when, where, why, who": You simply dismiss all the evidence in the historical record because you don't like it. The alternative would be that you are a type of troller amusing yourself and imagining that you possess a great intellect.
You're losing it Marty. Why? Because you're not used to a mentally strong individual refusing to back down to your bluster.
A mentally strong individual would consider counter arguments and have a proper discussion for the purpose of clarification. Only a fool does not back down!
You have no evidence to support your wild claims.
Since I don't make wild claims (they are all in your head), I don't need to have evidence.
Without going into details (they are part of the historical record): The most likely conclusion is that CE399 was fired on 22 November 1963 at 12:30 PM (approximately) from Oswald's Carcano rifle. Any alternative scenario (which must exist) requires it to be fired in the same rifle previous to the time of the assassination. There is zero evidence for such a theory.
There he goes again.... the same old song about "the most likely conclusion". It's only the "most likely conclusion" for you, because you agree with it.
Your so called "logic" lacks real logic.
No investigator is going to discard the conclusion that CE399 is linked to the assassination and support unjustified speculation that it was fired previously and planted at Parkland Hospital.
There you go again.... Who ever said that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital? But that's probably way over your head...
Your problem (psychological) is that you think your dismissal of evidence related to the assassination of President Kennedy and the murder of J.D. Tippit does not require alternative explanations: They do.
So, now you know what I think? Really?..... Are you sure you and Richard Smith aren't related?
Btw I don't dismiss anything, I just ask questions that you can not answer.
Your dismissals of evidence require law enforcement officers to depart from previously good behavior and become part of a massive conspiracy to murder JFK--with no motive to do so. Like the veiled suggestion that Secret Service agents handing pieces of bullets from the presidential limousine to the FBI were not authentic but likely obtained somewhere else.
How do you know they were from previous good behavior?..... Nah, don't answer that, I'm only yanking your chain. I could tell you that you are missing the point again, but it would be a waste of my time. You are never gonna get it anyway.
Other fragments of bullets were allegedly found in the limo, but this we will also never know for sure, because when the FBI Forensic team arrived at the Secret Service garage to examine the limo, they were told it had already been done and they were given some bullet fragments that supposedly came from the car.
So what's sinister about that? Was there an agreement that the Secret Service agents would wait for the FBI to come and conduct the search for evidence? Unless there was, the statement is immaterial. It's also delusional.
To you, none of it is sinister and it never will be. To those of us with a functional brain it's obvious that you do not contaminate a crime scene before the forensic specialist of the FBI show up to do that job. Secret Service agents are not forensic specialists. They completely f*cked up the crime scene, which is why there are only a few photographs of the car in the record. Believing that there is no problem when people who are clueless in documenting evidence start going through a crime scene is what is really delusional. It's also the best indicator that your are completely clueless when it comes to law enforcement and investigations.
I've got your number Marty, have had for a long time. When debating (that's debatable!) you cunningly don't provide any details of "how, what, when, where, why, who": You simply dismiss all the evidence in the historical record because you don't like it. The alternative would be that you are a type of troller amusing yourself and imagining that you possess a great intellect.
Yeah, you've got my number alright. Just about everything you just said is wrong, but other than that, you've got my number. :D
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Not a strawman: Holding you to a responsibility to provide a realistic alternative scenario to the the historical record which you do not believe. You don't appear to believe Oswald's Carcano was the assassination weapon. You can either admit that it was or posit some other gun. Something like: "There was another gun but I don't know what it was" will do.
This is just you very transparently trying to shift the burden of proof. "Historical record" doesn't mean squat. History is written by the victors.
P.S. "Oswald's Carcano". LOL.
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Here's the thing you're not getting, Ross. Oswald is the only one who has to be in the second floor lunchroom 75-90 seconds after the last shot. That requirement would not exist for any other shooter.
That's not the only thing he isn't getting......
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Here's the thing you're not getting, Ross. Oswald is the only one who has to be in the second floor lunchroom 75-90 seconds after the last shot. That requirement would not exist for any other shooter.
Look at my post again John. It referred to the real 6th floor shooter coming down the stairs in the same time-frame that Oswald would have. No 2nd floor lunchroom encounter: instead an encounter on the stairs.
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Without going into details (they are part of the historical record): The most likely conclusion is that CE399 was fired on 22 November 1963 at 12:30 PM (approximately) from Oswald's Carcano rifle. Any alternative scenario requires it to be fired in the same rifle previous to the time of the assassination. There is zero evidence for such a theory.
Unfortunately for your "historical record", there is zero evidence that CE399 was fired on 22 November 1963 at 12:30 PM. Your self-declared "most likely conclusion" doesn't just win by default.
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Secret Service agents are not forensic specialists.
Nor are Navy corpsmen.
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Look at my post again John. It referred to the real 6th floor shooter coming down the stairs in the same time-frame that Oswald would have. No 2nd floor lunchroom encounter: instead an encounter on the stairs.
The time frame only applies to Oswald, as he was seen in the lunchroom.
There is no reason for any other shooter to run down the stairs in that same time frame.
I've told you this before but you are too much of a genuis to get something as basic as this.
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Yes, why does any other shooter have to come down in the same time frame?
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Virtually every critic of the Warren Commission and writer of conspiracy books ignores the requirement for an alternative 6th floor shooter. If not Oswald, someone who used Oswald's rifle to assassinate President Kennedy.
There was a 6th floor TSBD shooter -- Oswald or a hit-man. He would have had the same difficulties that Oswald did in escaping the crime scene.
For all claims of "impossibility" for Oswald being the assassin, the real 6th floor shooter is equally affected.
Officer Marion Baker (accompanied by Mr. Truly) went up the back stairs of the TSBD a little more than a minute after the shots were fired. Baker found Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room. Reconstructions have demonstrated that its possible to get from the 6th floor sniper's nest to the 2nd floor lunch room in less than 90 seconds. Even if this is disputed by conspiracy theorists, a similar time frame exists for the real 6th floor shooter. How did he get past Baker and Truly on the stairwell and escape the TSBD? If there truly was a conspiracy: The plotters would require a foolproof plan in which their shooter could escape from the crime scene without being captured or even seen by a witness.
There would need to be accomplices who would prevent employees being inside the TSBD before, during and after the time of the assassination. Every floor up to the 6th (and even the 7th) would be off limits to everyone except the shooter and his helpers plus Oswald. This did not happen.
An innocent Oswald would need to be restrained prior to and during the assassination. It did not happen because Oswald never explained this to his interrogators and never "blabbed" this scenario to the press (in front of cameras and microphones) at City Hall.
No professional hit-man would accept a contract to assassinate President Kennedy. The chance of committing the crime and avoiding capture is so slight that no amount of money would be worth the risk.
An inside job is far more plausible. Oswald had the advantage of legitimately being anywhere in the TSBD after the assassination. That's why Officer Baker let Oswald go due to Truly vouching for his employee. Officer Baker would have arrested the real 6th floor shooter.
Your premise is flawed. There isn't a trajectory from the 6th floor that enters JFK at the T1 vertebrae and exits at the C7 vertebrae in his throat then enters Connally at the 5th rib. That's what makes the bullet magical. All your wishful thinking not withstanding. Otherwise, demonstrate it and prove me wrong. Maybe you will be the 1st to win the 2 laser challenge. The LNers that have tried it, no longer post here.
Get in between 2 lasers aimed at each other at a 17 deg angle and note where each laser strikes your body. Can you make them match the autopsy photos?
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/2lasersJFK.png)
Good luck!
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This opening thread is moronic.
Victoria Adams & Sandra Styles didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs. Now what?
They didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs because he had descended them well before they did.
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Your premise is flawed. There isn't a trajectory from the 6th floor that enters JFK at the T1 vertebrae and exits at the C7 vertebrae in his throat then enters Connally at the 5th rib. That's what makes the bullet magical. All your wishful thinking not withstanding. Otherwise, demonstrate it and prove me wrong. Maybe you will be the 1st to win the 2 laser challenge. The LNers that have tried it, no longer post here.
Get in between 2 lasers aimed at each other at a 17 deg angle and note where each laser strikes your body. Can you make them match the autopsy photos?
(http://www.readclip.com/JFK/2lasersJFK.png)
Good luck!
The LNers that have tried it, no longer post here.
Name them
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They didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs because he had descended them well before they did.
They descended the stairs after Oswald. Thats how Vicky Adams saw Bill Shelley when she came down. Bill Shelley proved Adams needed to go buy a new watch.
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They descended the stairs after Oswald. Thats how Vicky Adams saw Bill Shelley when she came down. Bill Shelley proved Adams needed to go buy a new watch.
No, it just makes the Warren Commission's 90 second window, or less, infeasible for Oswald. Nobody saw or heard Oswald. Vicky Adam's story has corroboration -- but was ignored.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YSM2Kjb3/martha-joe-shroud.jpg)
Why were crucial witnesses 'on the stairs' ignored and not involved in the recreation? why did their testimony get rejected & criticized?
Didn't Adams tell author Barry Ernst she saw an ''African-American employee'' at the bottom of the stairs?. Not Shelley. She suggested FBI altered her statement. I believe that.
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If not Oswald, someone who used Oswald's rifle to assassinate President Kennedy.
Try that again. If it wasn't Oswald it must have been someone else who was shooting with the Carcano?
Why? There was absolutely no evidence that the Carcano was fired that day.
There was a 6th floor TSBD shooter -- Oswald or a hit-man. He would have had the same difficulties that Oswald did in escaping the crime scene. For all claims of "impossibility" for Oswald being the assassin, the real 6th floor shooter is equally affected.
"The real 6th floor shooter"? Is that an admission that Oswald was not?
No professional hit-man would accept a contract to assassinate President Kennedy. The chance of committing the crime and avoiding capture is so slight that no amount of money would be worth the risk...There would need to be accomplices
Right. And there were...Dallas cops. What better cover than that ;)
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They descended the stairs after Oswald. Thats how Vicky Adams saw Bill Shelley when she came down. Bill Shelley proved Adams needed to go buy a new watch.
Shelley proved no such thing;
Mr. BALL - Did you see Vickie Adams after you came into the building and did you see her on the first floor?
Mr. SHELLEY - I sure don't remember.
Mr. BALL - You don't.
Mr. SHELLEY - No.
and neither did Billy Lovelady, who remarkably without being asked about Victoria Adams volunteered the following;
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.
Mr. BALL - Who is Vickie?
Mr. LOVELADY - The girl that works for Scott, Foresman.
Mr. BALL - What is her full name?
Mr. LOVELADY - I wouldn't know.
Mr. BALL - Vickie Adams?
Mr. LOVELADY - I believe so.
Mr. BALL - Would you say it was Vickie you saw?
Mr. LOVELADY - I couldn't swear.
Not only did Shelley and Lovelady not confirm the alleged encounter with Victoria Adams, but, according to the Stroud letter, her supervisor Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders that the girls went down before Truly and the policeman (Baker) came up.
Obviously, Baker and Truly had already seen Oswald on the second floor before they came up to the 4th floor.
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Shelley proved no such thing;
Mr. BALL - Did you see Vickie Adams after you came into the building and did you see her on the first floor?
Mr. SHELLEY - I sure don't remember.
Mr. BALL - You don't.
Mr. SHELLEY - No.
and neither did Billy Lovelady, who remarkably without being asked about Victoria Adams volunteered the following;
Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.
Mr. BALL - Who is Vickie?
Mr. LOVELADY - The girl that works for Scott, Foresman.
Mr. BALL - What is her full name?
Mr. LOVELADY - I wouldn't know.
Mr. BALL - Vickie Adams?
Mr. LOVELADY - I believe so.
Mr. BALL - Would you say it was Vickie you saw?
Mr. LOVELADY - I couldn't swear.
Not only did Shelley and Lovelady not confirm the alleged encounter with Victoria Adams, but, according to the Stroud letter, her supervisor Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders that the girls went down before Truly and the policeman (Baker) came up.
Obviously, Baker and Truly had already seen Oswald on the second floor before they came up to the 4th floor.
according to the Stroud letter, her supervisor Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders that the girls went down before Truly and the policeman (Baker) came up.
I'm not looking to challenge you....But I simply find it unbelievable that Adams and Stroud could have gone down those stairs before Truly and Baker went up those stairs. UNLESS..... The WC "reenactment" is a pile of BS.( a distinct probability ) The WC claimed that Baker and Truly encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom about 70 seconds after the first shot was fired. That means that Adams and Stroud had to have descended the stairs about 30 seconds after the first shot was fired and IF that's true they would have had to have encountered Lee Oswald if he had been on the stairs.
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according to the Stroud letter, her supervisor Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders that the girls went down before Truly and the policeman (Baker) came up.
I'm not looking to challenge you....But I simply find it unbelievable that Adams and Stroud could have gone down those stairs before Truly and Baker went up those stairs. UNLESS..... The WC "reenactment" is a pile of BS.( a distinct probability ) The WC claimed that Baker and Truly encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom about 70 seconds after the first shot was fired. That means that Adams and Stroud had to have descended the stairs about 30 seconds after the first shot was fired and IF that's true they would have had to have encountered Lee Oswald if he had been on the stairs.
You wouldn't be challenging me, Walt. You'd be challenging Dorothy Garner. She was there, and considering that Rankin did absolutely nothing with the Stroud letter should tell you something about the validity of Garner's observation.
That means that Adams and Stroud had to have descended the stairs about 30 seconds after the first shot was fired and IF that's true they would have had to have encountered Lee Oswald if he had been on the stairs.
Indeed, they should have encountered Oswald if he had been there. That's a mighty big if. The WC did not leave Adams and Styles out of their "reenactment" for nothing.
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Indeed, they should have encountered Oswald if he had been there. That's a mighty big if. The WC did not leave Adams and Styles out of their "reenactment" for nothing.
Adams saw Bill Shelley when she came down. Thus she refuted her own claim.
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Adams saw Bill Shelley when she came down. Thus she refuted her own claim.
Actually, no she didn't. She told Barry Ernest that she never saw Shelley and when she learned that it was in her WC testimony that she had encountered Shelley at the bottom of the stairs she denied ever having said that during her testimony.
Without corroboration from Shelley and/or Lovelady, what you've got is a contradiction between what's in Adams' testimony and what she told Barry Ernest.
And then of course there is the Stroud letter which confirms that Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders that she saw Baker and Truly come up after the girls (Adams & Styles) went down. That of course makes an encounter with Shelley impossible as he and Lovelady were outside when the shots were fired and both first ran to the other side of the building before going back in. There is a time gap there that needs to be explained.
Ignoring parts of the evidence that you don't like is never a good way to come to the correct conclusion.
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Actually, no she didn't. She told Barry Ernest that she never saw Shelley and when she learned that it was in her WC testimony that she had encountered Shelley at the bottom of the stairs she denied ever having said that during her testimony.
She caught herself out.
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She caught herself out.
Way too easy... Oversimplification.
Perhaps she caught out manipulation of her testimony by the WC. It wouldn't be an isolated event.
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And then there's the strange story of Jim Leavelle following Adams home and showing up at her new apartment at night to re-interview her because the previous "police records were destroyed in a fire" and getting a statement from her that included her seeing Bill Shelley when she came downstairs (though she also denied ever telling Leavelle that).
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And then there's the strange story of Jim Leavelle following Adams home and showing up at her new apartment at night to re-interview her because the previous "police records were destroyed in a fire" and getting a statement from her that included her seeing Bill Shelley when she came downstairs (though she also denied ever telling Leavelle that).
That would suggest Leavelle was in on the "plot" which no one really thinks is true. Adams got caught out.
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That would suggest Leavelle was in on the "plot" which no one really thinks is true. Adams got caught out.
Did you take something that made you immune to facts? Why do you ignore what Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders?
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That would suggest Leavelle was in on the "plot" which no one really thinks is true. Adams got caught out.
Was Leavelle a member of the DPD?..... If Yes,.... then he was in on the plot......
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The time frame only applies to Oswald, as he was seen in the lunchroom.
There is no reason for any other shooter to run down the stairs in that same time frame.
I've told you this before but you are too much of a genuis to get something as basic as this.
There is no reason for any other shooter to run down the stairs in that same time frame.
How about not being caught and arrested? Subsequently charged with murder of John F. Kennedy, prosecuted, convicted and sentenced to death. Executed in the electric-chair in Huntsville Texas!
Just when I think your posts cannot get any more ridiculous, you come up with that.
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There is no reason for any other shooter to run down the stairs in that same time frame.
How about not being caught and arrested. Subsequently prosecuted and convicted of the murder of John F. Kennedy. Finally being executed in the electric-chair in Huntsville Texas!
Just when I think your posts cannot get any more ridiculous, you come up with that.
As per usual, you show us once again than any person can only consider to be "logical" what his own mind can process. When you are incapable to understand and/or accept alternative scenarios, you will keep going round in the same circle all the time and always end up at the same flawed conclusion, which is exactly what you are doing here yet again.
It has already been explained to you. If Oswald was the killer, he would have needed to come down the stairs within a 90 seconds because otherwise Baker and Truly could not have seen him in the 2nd floor lunchroom.
Any other killer, who was not seen by Baker and Truly, or anybody else for that matter, would not have the requirement to come down the stairs so quickly. He could have hidden somewhere in the building and, posing as an law enforcement officer, use the commotion to leave the building later. If you don't get a simple concept as this, there is not much anybody can do for you. Ignorance is bliss, right?
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As per usual, you show us once again than any person can only consider to be "logical" what his own mind can process. When you are incapable to understand and/or accept alternative scenarios, you will keep going round in the same circle all the time and always end up at the same flawed conclusion, which is exactly what you are doing here yet again.
It has already been explained to you. If Oswald was the killer, he would have needed to come down the stairs within a 90 seconds because otherwise Baker and Truly could not have seen him in the 2nd floor lunchroom.
Any other killer, who was not seen by Baker and Truly, or anybody else for that matter, would not have the requirement to come down the stairs so quickly. He could have hidden somewhere in the building and, posing as an law enforcement officer, use the commotion to leave the building later. If you don't get a simple concept as this, there is not much anybody can do for you. Ignorance is bliss, right?
Any other killer, who was not seen by Baker and Truly, or anybody else for that matter, would not have the requirement to come down the stairs so quickly. He could have hidden somewhere in the building and, posing as an law enforcement officer, use the commotion to leave the building later. If you don't get a simple concept as this, there is not much anybody can do for you. Ignorance is bliss, right?
Did you misspell a word?
If you don't get a simpleTON concept as this, there is not much anybody can do for you.
There are a lot of assumptions in your implausible scenario.
Any other killer, who was not seen by Baker and Truly, or anybody else for that matter, would not have the requirement to come down the stairs so quickly.
Except to escape. Can you nominate a prominent murder case (hit) where the hitman did not immediately flee the scene of the crime?
He could have hidden somewhere in the building and, posing as an law enforcement officer,...
No witness saw a law enforcement officer in the 6th floor window firing a rifle.
...use the commotion to leave the building later
What commotion was that? Please provide evidence of a specific "commotion".
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Any other killer, who was not seen by Baker and Truly, or anybody else for that matter, would not have the requirement to come down the stairs so quickly. He could have hidden somewhere in the building and, posing as an law enforcement officer, use the commotion to leave the building later. If you don't get a simple concept as this, there is not much anybody can do for you. Ignorance is bliss, right?
Did you misspell a word?
If you don't get a simpleTON concept as this, there is not much anybody can do for you.
There's a lot of assumptions in your implausible scenario.
An alternative scenario, involving another shooter than Oswald, is always going to be an assumption. Just like your claim that Oswald came down the stairs is an assumption. There is nothing implausible in my alternative scenario.
Any other killer, who was not seen by Baker and Truly, or anybody else for that matter, would not have the requirement to come down the stairs so quickly.
Except to escape. Can you nominate a prominent murder case (hit) where the hitman did not immediately flee the scene of the crime?
A guy who doesn't belong in the TSBD, running down the stairs, directly after the shots would stand a far greater chance of being noticed. It would involve a high risk of detection.
He could have hidden somewhere in the building and, posing as an law enforcement officer,...
No witness saw a law enforcement officer in the 6th floor window firing a rifle.
Really? :D How would any witness know what the profession is of the man firing a rifle?
But I didn't say he had to be a law enforcement officer. All he needed to do is pose as one, by flashing an ID. Just like the man Officer Smith ran into behind the picked fence on the grassy knoll.
...use the commotion to leave the building later
What commotion was that? Please provide evidence of a specific "commotion".
Police officers storming into the building...
Within minutes after the shooting the place was flooded with police officers, Secret Service agents and God knows who else. Tom Alyea managed to sneek into the building and nobody paid any attention to him. A guy, pretending to be an officer, calmly walking out of the building wouldn't stand out either.
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Any other killer, who was not seen by Baker and Truly, or anybody else for that matter, would not have the requirement to come down the stairs so quickly. He could have hidden somewhere in the building and, posing as an law enforcement officer, use the commotion to leave the building later. If you don't get a simple concept as this, there is not much anybody can do for you. Ignorance is bliss, right?
Did you misspell a word?
If you don't get a simpleTON concept as this, there is not much anybody can do for you.
There are a lot of assumptions in your implausible scenario.
Any other killer, who was not seen by Baker and Truly, or anybody else for that matter, would not have the requirement to come down the stairs so quickly.
Except to escape. Can you nominate a prominent murder case (hit) where the hitman did not immediately flee the scene of the crime?
He could have hidden somewhere in the building and, posing as an law enforcement officer,...
No witness saw a law enforcement officer in the 6th floor window firing a rifle.
...use the commotion to leave the building later
What commotion was that? Please provide evidence of a specific "commotion".
specific commotion
The commotion outside the building. Plenty of windows open. Oswald even used the word IIRC
(Off topic, but come to think of it, that might have been a factor in the babes in high heels not hearing the PerpTwerp on the stairs)
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The commotion outside the building. Plenty of windows open. Oswald even used the word IIRC
(Off topic, but come to think of it, that might have been a factor in the babes in high heels not hearing the PerpTwerp on the stairs)
Yeah, because of all the open windows in the stairwell. ::)