JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Paul May on February 21, 2020, 04:27:28 AM
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his brother, Earl Ruby, at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Texas. (Listen to a slightly condensed audio file of the interview.)
From Elmer Gertz, Moment of Madness: The People vs. Jack Ruby (Chicago: Follett, 1968), pp. 485-92:
BACKGROUND NOISE--YIDDISH--Talk into the . . . here the device mechanical is in here, talk into the case.
A. When I went into the Western Union to try to send the money, and naturally the clerk took my money, and uh, and uh, turned away after he took the money, I turned away and walked out. I walked down the street, just natural strides, and as I . . .
Q. Main Street?
A. No -- Yes, Main Street, going west to Main Street, the south side of Main Street, as I walked toward the ramp, I noticed the police squad car at the head of the ramp and an officer leaning over talking to him with his back to me. All I did was walk down there, down to the bottom of the ramp and that's when the incident happened, at the bottom of the ramp -- according to the Western Union records -- the time stamped on the Western Union records -- it's 11:17 the time the incident taking place 11:21, it was 11:21.
Q. Did you walk slowly?
A. I walked my natural pace.
Q. You did not rush?
A. No.
Q. Did you recognize anybody when you reached the bottom of the ramp?
A. No. I recognized the police officer in the car -- that was in the car -- it was Lt. Sam Pierce, and this other man was just talking to him, and why Sam Pierce had not seen me, I don't know.
Q. Did you try to avoid him or anything?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. When did you finally realize that something had happened, Jack, when did you finally know?
A. Well, it happened in such a blur -- well it happened in such a blur, that before I knew it, I was down on the ground -- the officers had me on the ground.
Q. Had you realized you had done anything?
A. Well, really it happened so fast, and anything else I cannot recall what happened from the time I came to the bottom of the ramp until the police officers had me on the ground.
Q. Have no recollection?
A. No. But, I knew they were holding my hand and grabbing for the gun.
Q. Had you ever known Oswald, Jack?
A. No.
Q. Ever know Oswald before?
A. Never had known him or seen him before.
Q. You never met him?
A. Never have, my clubs were all money that either I borrowed for the family or self-accumulated. I was not obligated to any other source, never had I attempted to ask anybody for anything, so I owe the government a little money at the time, but we were working out a deal on a compromise, those things over a period of years you pay off.
Q. Had you ever planned anything like this?
A. Had I ever what?
Q. Did you ever plan this. Did you ever think you were going to do this?
A. I don't know how to answer that. I was so emotionally upset for three days. At one time I had to have some money and I borrowed some money from Ralph Paul, and I gave him some stock in the Club to show good faith, that sort of collateral, for it.
Q. You did not try to sneak in the place, did you?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Was there anybody at Western Union ahead of you?
A. Yes, one customer, one customer.
Q. Did you try to hurry up the people at Western Union?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Were there other people at Western Union while you were there, Jack?
A. No, I didn't recall, I noticed only this one customer.
Q. Did you think that Oswald was already taken over by the Sheriff by the time you went to Western Union?
A. Uh, I don't know how to answer that, I don't know one way or the other.
Q. Do you remember when you drove by Dealy [sic] Plaza and saw those wreaths what you thought at that time?
A. What I saw?
Q. Yeah, what you thought?
A. The same thing I had gone through for the other two days, the letdown and remorse.
Q. Were you planning after Kennedy was shot to leave Dallas for a few days, Jack?
A. Yes, it came to my mind momentarily when I called my sister in Chicago, I said "Eileen, now I ought to come home for a few days," so the first thing she said was "who is going to look after Eve?", meaning my sister Eve just got out of the hospital, so she felt that she was convalescing somebody should be with her.
Q. Otherwise you would have gone home?
A. Well, there was a chance that I could of [sic] if Eileen would have talked me into it, you know.
Q. Is there any truth at all to the stories that Oswald had been in your club?
A. None whatsoever, it's just a fabrication -- in one particular incident that has never been enlightened to the public, I believe, is that a friend of mine, Mr. McWillie who invited me down to Havana, Cuba. I didn't come down, but he finally sent me plane tickets to come down as a good friendly gesture. So I accepted the invitation. I stayed with him for eight days, and then I left, and I had lived constantly with him the eight days, but then right after he called me from Havana, Cuba and said "Jack, I want you to call Ray Brantley at Ray's Hardware store in Singleton Avenue and tell him to send me four Cobras" -- a Cobra is a little revolver. So, I did call him and gave him the address. When I called him he answered and said, "Oh, I know Mr. McWillie very well" so that left it out of my hands. All I had to do was relay the message, but that is the only extent I ever had of any association with anything [sic] business dealings outside of the United States and that was only a message to relay.
Q. Normally you carried a gun with you didn't you, Jack?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. This was nothing unusual you had with you that day?
A. No. I always carried a gun because of various altercations I had in my Club then I carried pretty large sums of money at times.
Q. You had your dog with you, Sheba?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Will you tell about Sheba, Jack?
A. Well, I was very fond of Sheba. She brought me a very large litter and I raised the litter myself in my apartment, and I distributed the dogs to certain friends, but I kept Sheba and another dog called Clipper. Sheba was wherever I were [sic] go, leave the house, she jumped the door ready to go with me.
Q. She was with you that day?
A. Yes, I left her in the car. The ironic part of this is had not I made an illegal turn behind the bus to the parking lot, had I gone the way I was supposed to go straight down Main Street, I would have never met this fate because the difference in meeting this fate was 30 seconds one way or the other.
Q. When you were down there you didn't try to hide or conceal?
A. No, I didn't because if you checked the walking distance from the Western Union to the bottom of the ramp, you know it would have to be synchronized so perfect to the second, and to plan something you had in your mind premeditatedly. In that sense I didn't even allow myself one second of interval time. I presume there was a public phone. I never accepted a call for somebody to let me know what is happening.
Q. Did you know when Oswald was going to be moved, Jack?
A. I'll be honest with you, no.
Q. You had no idea?
A. Later on I found out he was supposed to be moved at 10:00.
Q. You were never told by anybody he was going to be moved?
A. No.
Q. Is there anything else you think I ought to know, Jack? Are you uncomfortable?
A. My rectum, I am bedridden, you know.
Q. You got sores, eh?
A. No, it's not sores -- it's the pain.
Q. Jack, when you left the Western Union office what made you walk toward the jail house?
A. Because when I drove by I saw some people down at the ramp and the curiosity had aroused me because of the flash in my mind seeing the people there because before I went to Western Union as I drove by on Main Street.
Q. Is there anything else you can think of, Jack, anything else when you were walking by or going down there?
A. I don't know what to think -- happened.
Q. Well, you are doing very well -- just think a minute. Do you remember anything when you reached the bottom of the ramp?
A. Yeah, I did, like I said, a flash came to me from the point at the bottom of the ramp at the time that I was grappling with the police officers for the gun. Actually, what had happened I don't know at that time.
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This is one deathbed confession that sounds truthful.
The most telling factor that proves Jack Ruby's killing of Lee Oswald was not premeditated:
"..... The ironic part of this is had not I made an illegal turn behind the bus to the parking lot, had I gone the way I was supposed to go straight down Main Street, I would have never met this fate because the difference in meeting this fate was 30 seconds one way or the other".
The recording demonstrates that Jack had a good vocabulary. In a parallel universe Jack Ruby was a brilliant Jewish lawyer who succeeded in defending Lee Harvey Oswald of murdering President Lyndon Baines Johnson. Johnson was succeeded by Vice President John F. Kennedy.
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Yes it was absolutely critical to silence Oswald before he got to a trial to cover the conspiracy but they were more than happy to let Ruby speak to anyone he wanted and go to trial. Thumb1:
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It would have been fairly easy to dismiss anything that Ruby said. He claimed that they were torturing Jews in the police station basement.
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It would have been fairly easy to dismiss anything that Ruby said. He claimed that they were torturing Jews in the police station basement.
You're right....It's a piece o cake to get a mental case to say what ever you want them to say.... And Ruby did have a mental problem.
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Yes it was absolutely critical to silence Oswald before he got to a trial to cover the conspiracy but they were more than happy to let Ruby speak to anyone he wanted and go to trial. Thumb1:
Right, this makes absolutely no sense at all. Why allow this? We can't prove - certainly not to the hardcore conspiracy believer - that Ruby wasn't part of a plot, that he was directed to kill Oswald. All we can do is to try and prove, somehow, a negative. Or present evidence of one. Such as: "If he was part of a larger conspiracy then why allow him to talk like this? Be interviewed by the press, talk to his family? Doesn't it risk exposure? Particularly after he was diagnosed with terminal cancer? And what was his benefit for doing this? What did he gain?"
They "let" Oswald talk to his family, to others, to meet with the media. That's not something one would do if you're worried about him exposing your conspiracy.
Here we have Ruby calmly (there's audio of him) and rationally explaining his act, the motive behind it, his thinking. This is not him saying Jews were being killed around him (as he did). The two are not, for me, equivalent (there is evidence for one; there is no evidence for the other). Clearly he had moments of, well, insanity. But psychotherapists say mentally unstable people have moments of clarity and reason along with episodes of instability. Here, for me at least, he is calm and reasonable and sensible. We should be able to see the difference. Unless one doesn't want to. In which case, never mind <g>.
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Let's just start another Jack Ruby thread. Why not?
Ever read the polygraph report?
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pdf/WR_A17_PolygraphExamRuby.pdf
For those who accept the story, it appears quite plausible that Jack Ruby just happened to be waltzing down the street and strolled unchallenged down the basement ramp at just the perfect time to shoot Lee Harvey Oswald. There was no plan or intention beforehand.
Coincidence # Umpty seven thousand and Thirty-three.
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You're right....It's a piece o cake to get a mental case to say what ever you want them to say.... And Ruby did have a mental problem.
Yeah, everything's faked
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If Ruby said that the only way the truth will come out is if they ( Warren Commission ) take me back to Washington D.C. so the truth of what happened could come out and of course we know that didn't happen because they already knew the truth . LHO was just a Patsy and the ' Boys " did not want LHO to do any talking which would have been ironic because Oswald did not shoot anyone that day !
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his brother, Earl Ruby, at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Texas. (Listen to a slightly condensed audio file of the interview.)
From Elmer Gertz, Moment of Madness: The People vs. Jack Ruby (Chicago: Follett, 1968), pp. 485-92:
BACKGROUND NOISE--YIDDISH--Talk into the . . . here the device mechanical is in here, talk into the case.
A. When I went into the Western Union to try to send the money, and naturally the clerk took my money, and uh, and uh, turned away after he took the money, I turned away and walked out. I walked down the street, just natural strides, and as I . . .
Q. Main Street?
A. No -- Yes, Main Street, going west to Main Street, the south side of Main Street, as I walked toward the ramp, I noticed the police squad car at the head of the ramp and an officer leaning over talking to him with his back to me. All I did was walk down there, down to the bottom of the ramp and that's when the incident happened, at the bottom of the ramp -- according to the Western Union records -- the time stamped on the Western Union records -- it's 11:17 the time the incident taking place 11:21, it was 11:21.
Q. Did you walk slowly?
A. I walked my natural pace.
Q. You did not rush?
A. No.
Q. Did you recognize anybody when you reached the bottom of the ramp?
A. No. I recognized the police officer in the car -- that was in the car -- it was Lt. Sam Pierce, and this other man was just talking to him, and why Sam Pierce had not seen me, I don't know.
Q. Did you try to avoid him or anything?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. When did you finally realize that something had happened, Jack, when did you finally know?
A. Well, it happened in such a blur -- well it happened in such a blur, that before I knew it, I was down on the ground -- the officers had me on the ground.
Q. Had you realized you had done anything?
A. Well, really it happened so fast, and anything else I cannot recall what happened from the time I came to the bottom of the ramp until the police officers had me on the ground.
Q. Have no recollection?
A. No. But, I knew they were holding my hand and grabbing for the gun.
Q. Had you ever known Oswald, Jack?
A. No.
Q. Ever know Oswald before?
A. Never had known him or seen him before.
Q. You never met him?
A. Never have, my clubs were all money that either I borrowed for the family or self-accumulated. I was not obligated to any other source, never had I attempted to ask anybody for anything, so I owe the government a little money at the time, but we were working out a deal on a compromise, those things over a period of years you pay off.
Q. Had you ever planned anything like this?
A. Had I ever what?
Q. Did you ever plan this. Did you ever think you were going to do this?
A. I don't know how to answer that. I was so emotionally upset for three days. At one time I had to have some money and I borrowed some money from Ralph Paul, and I gave him some stock in the Club to show good faith, that sort of collateral, for it.
Q. You did not try to sneak in the place, did you?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Was there anybody at Western Union ahead of you?
A. Yes, one customer, one customer.
Q. Did you try to hurry up the people at Western Union?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. Were there other people at Western Union while you were there, Jack?
A. No, I didn't recall, I noticed only this one customer.
Q. Did you think that Oswald was already taken over by the Sheriff by the time you went to Western Union?
A. Uh, I don't know how to answer that, I don't know one way or the other.
Q. Do you remember when you drove by Dealy [sic] Plaza and saw those wreaths what you thought at that time?
A. What I saw?
Q. Yeah, what you thought?
A. The same thing I had gone through for the other two days, the letdown and remorse.
Q. Were you planning after Kennedy was shot to leave Dallas for a few days, Jack?
A. Yes, it came to my mind momentarily when I called my sister in Chicago, I said "Eileen, now I ought to come home for a few days," so the first thing she said was "who is going to look after Eve?", meaning my sister Eve just got out of the hospital, so she felt that she was convalescing somebody should be with her.
Q. Otherwise you would have gone home?
A. Well, there was a chance that I could of [sic] if Eileen would have talked me into it, you know.
Q. Is there any truth at all to the stories that Oswald had been in your club?
A. None whatsoever, it's just a fabrication -- in one particular incident that has never been enlightened to the public, I believe, is that a friend of mine, Mr. McWillie who invited me down to Havana, Cuba. I didn't come down, but he finally sent me plane tickets to come down as a good friendly gesture. So I accepted the invitation. I stayed with him for eight days, and then I left, and I had lived constantly with him the eight days, but then right after he called me from Havana, Cuba and said "Jack, I want you to call Ray Brantley at Ray's Hardware store in Singleton Avenue and tell him to send me four Cobras" -- a Cobra is a little revolver. So, I did call him and gave him the address. When I called him he answered and said, "Oh, I know Mr. McWillie very well" so that left it out of my hands. All I had to do was relay the message, but that is the only extent I ever had of any association with anything [sic] business dealings outside of the United States and that was only a message to relay.
Q. Normally you carried a gun with you didn't you, Jack?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. This was nothing unusual you had with you that day?
A. No. I always carried a gun because of various altercations I had in my Club then I carried pretty large sums of money at times.
Q. You had your dog with you, Sheba?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Will you tell about Sheba, Jack?
A. Well, I was very fond of Sheba. She brought me a very large litter and I raised the litter myself in my apartment, and I distributed the dogs to certain friends, but I kept Sheba and another dog called Clipper. Sheba was wherever I were [sic] go, leave the house, she jumped the door ready to go with me.
Q. She was with you that day?
A. Yes, I left her in the car. The ironic part of this is had not I made an illegal turn behind the bus to the parking lot, had I gone the way I was supposed to go straight down Main Street, I would have never met this fate because the difference in meeting this fate was 30 seconds one way or the other.
Q. When you were down there you didn't try to hide or conceal?
A. No, I didn't because if you checked the walking distance from the Western Union to the bottom of the ramp, you know it would have to be synchronized so perfect to the second, and to plan something you had in your mind premeditatedly. In that sense I didn't even allow myself one second of interval time. I presume there was a public phone. I never accepted a call for somebody to let me know what is happening.
Q. Did you know when Oswald was going to be moved, Jack?
A. I'll be honest with you, no.
Q. You had no idea?
A. Later on I found out he was supposed to be moved at 10:00.
Q. You were never told by anybody he was going to be moved?
A. No.
Q. Is there anything else you think I ought to know, Jack? Are you uncomfortable?
A. My rectum, I am bedridden, you know.
Q. You got sores, eh?
A. No, it's not sores -- it's the pain.
Q. Jack, when you left the Western Union office what made you walk toward the jail house?
A. Because when I drove by I saw some people down at the ramp and the curiosity had aroused me because of the flash in my mind seeing the people there because before I went to Western Union as I drove by on Main Street.
Q. Is there anything else you can think of, Jack, anything else when you were walking by or going down there?
A. I don't know what to think -- happened.
Q. Well, you are doing very well -- just think a minute. Do you remember anything when you reached the bottom of the ramp?
A. Yeah, I did, like I said, a flash came to me from the point at the bottom of the ramp at the time that I was grappling with the police officers for the gun. Actually, what had happened I don't know at that time.
A shorter four minute segment of the above can be heard here (click to hear): www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VjbE0Y2YMg
He comes across to me as calm, sober, and deliberate. This is 18 days before he dies. He's on borrowed time. If there's a time to expose his role this would be it. What would happen to him if he did? He's a dead man walking, so to speak.
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Was he aware that he was dying?
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Right, this makes absolutely no sense at all. Why allow this? We can't prove - certainly not to the hardcore conspiracy believer - that Ruby wasn't part of a plot, that he was directed to kill Oswald. All we can do is to try and prove, somehow, a negative. Or present evidence of one. Such as: "If he was part of a larger conspiracy then why allow him to talk like this? Be interviewed by the press, talk to his family? Doesn't it risk exposure? Particularly after he was diagnosed with terminal cancer? And what was his benefit for doing this? What did he gain?"
They "let" Oswald talk to his family, to others, to meet with the media. That's not something one would do if you're worried about him exposing your conspiracy.
Here we have Ruby calmly (there's audio of him) and rationally explaining his act, the motive behind it, his thinking. This is not him saying Jews were being killed around him (as he did). The two are not, for me, equivalent (there is evidence for one; there is no evidence for the other). Clearly he had moments of, well, insanity. But psychotherapists say mentally unstable people have moments of clarity and reason along with episodes of instability. Here, for me at least, he is calm and reasonable and sensible. We should be able to see the difference. Unless one doesn't want to. In which case, never mind <g>.
If you knew that Henry Wade knew Jack Ruby well ...( despite the fact that Wade denied that he visited he Carousel or knew Jack Ruby) change your thinking about Ruby's murder of Lee Oswald.
Does Ruby's call out to Henry Wade ....." No, Henry, that's the Fair Play for Cuba Committee"...sound like Ruby didn't know Henry Wade????
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I don’t recall him saying “no Henry”.
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I don’t recall him saying “no Henry”.
Have you heard Wade's press conference when he said that Lee was a member of the "Free Cuba Committee" ( or something like that) and Ruby yelled from the back of the room....No Henry, "That's the Fair Play for Cuba Committee"
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Yes, I’m familiar with the press conference. I’ve never heard the words “no, Henry” spoken at the time.
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Was the - Fair Play for Cuba ... - ever mentioned during the news that day because if it wasn't how would Jack know
Oswald was connected with it? Unless .. he did know him? Or, knew of him?
Also, wasn't there a BC thread - before the crash - which stated that Oswald's mother was shown a picture of Ruby
by the police before he shot her son? Just going by memory here.
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Was the - Fair Play for Cuba ... - ever mentioned during the news that day because if it wasn't how would Jack know Oswald was connected with it? Unless .. he did know him? Or, knew of him?
That is one pregnant question Thumb1:
Meaning it was quite conceivable.
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At the 1:03 point Wade says ....."Well the only one I mentioned was the Free Cuba committee or whatever that was"....
So clearly he had mentioned the organization prior to this news briefing ( lie session)
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Can you point out where you hear the “no, Henry”?
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Can you point out where you hear the “no, Henry”?
Not in this Video.... I recall seeing a news briefing in which Henry Wade said that Lee Oswald was a member of the wrong organization.... And Jack Ruby who was in the back of the room called out to Henry Wade.... "No Henry, that's the Fair Play for Cuba Committee" How did Ruby immediately know that Henry Wade had chosen the wrong organization? How did Ruby know that Lee was a member of the FPFCC ?? and If he didn't know Henry Wade why did he call to him using his first name? And why did he offer to introduce a reporter to Henry Wade so the reporter could interview Wade?
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Not in this Video.... I recall seeing a news briefing in which Henry Wade said that Lee Oswald was a member of the wrong organization.... And Jack Ruby who was in the back of the room called out to Henry Wade.... "No Henry, that's the Fair Play for Cuba Committee"
I’m sure you do. ::)
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Just to add to this thread ...
Press agent, Jack Ruby? Tip regarding, Oswald?
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The only way Ruby would have done the hit in the 1st place was because they threatened to hurt/kill his family if he didn't play ball. That remained an outstanding threat up until his death. He was protecting them to the end. Otherwise, why lie about never knowing/meeting Oswald before? And how could he have known that Oswald was never in his club before? No way he could be sure of that. And what about his other interviews where he hinted that the powers that be were keeping him silent? He was trying way too hard to dispel any connections to a conspiracy. If there was no threat to him or his family, then why walk on egg shells when denying conspiracy rumors? And why would anyone believe htiman Ruby was a lone nut gunman who shot another lone nut gunman on a whim? That's 2 too many lone nuts for my liking.
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The only way Ruby would have done the hit in the 1st place was because they threatened to hurt/kill his family if he didn't play ball. That remained an outstanding threat up until his death. He was protecting them to the end. Otherwise, why lie about never knowing/meeting Oswald before? And how could he have known that Oswald was never in his club before? No way he could be sure of that. And what about his other interviews where he hinted that the powers that be were keeping him silent? He was trying way too hard to dispel any connections to a conspiracy. If there was no threat to him or his family, then why walk on egg shells when denying conspiracy rumors? And why would anyone believe htiman Ruby was a lone nut gunman who shot another lone nut gunman on a whim? That's 2 too many lone nuts for my liking.
I agree. Ruby was either whacked in the head or there has to be more to his actions.
He was concerned enough with Kennedy that - according to one witness anyway - he went to Parkland Hospital.
He was so concerned re Kennedy that he was among the reporters covering the story. So concerned, he corrected Wade re
the Fair Play for Cuba statement. So concerned, he brought sandwiches to the police. So concerned, he orchestrated radio
coverage about the event and yet .... showed NO CONCERN when Oswald was to be transferred at 10 a.m. because he didn't
show up then but, by happenstance, he did show up exactly when the transfer was about to occur.
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Can you point out where you hear the “no, Henry”?
I am hard of hearing anyway but....
See 12:01 AM
https://books.google.com/books?id=8xGNAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=ruby+at+the+press+conference+correcting+wade+fair+play&source=bl&ots=nJu8sKzqe6&sig=ACfU3U31iz7fzNeqF2oGbWu2XR-YeBcKcw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjEgs3VoObnAhUIY6wKHYfoBHM4ChDoATAAegQIChAB#v=onepage&q=ruby%20at%20the%20press%20conference%20correcting%20wade%20fair%20play&f=false
One thing is for sure..With a room full of professional newsmen...on top of it reporters---If that is indeed Jack Ruby who said that...[How do we really know for sure?] He was the only one who seemed to know about Fair Play for Cuba.
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Of course JR was just a concerned citizen and he wasn't stalking Oswald at the DPD ::)
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I am hard of hearing anyway but....
See 12:01 AM
https://books.google.com/books?id=8xGNAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=ruby+at+the+press+conference+correcting+wade+fair+play&source=bl&ots=nJu8sKzqe6&sig=ACfU3U31iz7fzNeqF2oGbWu2XR-YeBcKcw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjEgs3VoObnAhUIY6wKHYfoBHM4ChDoATAAegQIChAB#v=onepage&q=ruby%20at%20the%20press%20conference%20correcting%20wade%20fair%20play&f=false
One thing is for sure..With a room full of professional newsmen...on top of it reporters---If that is indeed Jack Ruby who said that...[How do we really know for sure?] He was the only one who seemed to know about Fair Play for Cuba.
Oh, Henry? Is that you who frequented Ruby's establishment?
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I am hard of hearing anyway but....
See 12:01 AM
https://books.google.com/books?id=8xGNAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=ruby+at+the+press+conference+correcting+wade+fair+play&source=bl&ots=nJu8sKzqe6&sig=ACfU3U31iz7fzNeqF2oGbWu2XR-YeBcKcw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjEgs3VoObnAhUIY6wKHYfoBHM4ChDoATAAegQIChAB#v=onepage&q=ruby%20at%20the%20press%20conference%20correcting%20wade%20fair%20play&f=false
One thing is for sure..With a room full of professional newsmen...on top of it reporters---If that is indeed Jack Ruby who said that...[How do we really know for sure?] He was the only one who seemed to know about Fair Play for Cuba.
At 12:01 am 11/23/63 ...... Ruby calls to Dallas DA Henry Wade.... "Henry, that's the Fair Play for Cuba Committee"
Thank You, Jerry.
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Even Gerald Posner chronicles that JR took credit for the Fair Play statement at footnote 119...
https://books.google.com/books?id=vV29AAAAQBAJ&pg=PT209&lpg=PT209&dq=ruby+at+the+press+conference+correcting+wade++fair+play&source=bl&ots=uPXbm8mb5r&sig=ACfU3U0QcYaldXrhDZwaqjzfAq8qvTHpuw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjH4KjfvOXnAhVEb60KHaBJDcYQ6AEwBXoECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q=ruby%20at%20the%20press%20conference%20correcting%20wade%20%20fair%20play&f=false
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Even Gerald Posner chronicles that JR took credit for the Fair Play statement at footnote 119...
https://books.google.com/books?id=vV29AAAAQBAJ&pg=PT209&lpg=PT209&dq=ruby+at+the+press+conference+correcting+wade++fair+play&source=bl&ots=uPXbm8mb5r&sig=ACfU3U0QcYaldXrhDZwaqjzfAq8qvTHpuw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjH4KjfvOXnAhVEb60KHaBJDcYQ6AEwBXoECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q=ruby%20at%20the%20press%20conference%20correcting%20wade%20%20fair%20play&f=false
The primary point is:.... Jack Ruby called out to Henry Wade using Wade's first name.... "HENRY, That's the Fair Play For Cuba Committee".
Wade denied that he and Ruby were good friends.
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Just to add to this thread ...
Press agent, Jack Ruby? Tip regarding, Oswald?
It certainly would appear that Jack Ruby had involvement prior to his shooting of LHO. He provides a "tip" to KLIF radio station (at 5:45). That in itself is unusual since he became the killer of LHO soon thereafter! In other words, it doesn't happen by happenstance but by clear and deliberate motive and action. In my opinion, Ruby was a very important player. What makes people believe he was a great patriot for what he did? What we do know is that he owned a night/stripclub, had typical mafia connections and also enjoyed the company of Dallas Police officers who came to his club to drink and party and enjoy the nightshows he hosted! In and of itself, that means nothing. However, he could easily have ties to organized crime figures like Carlos Marcello or even to those police officers that frequented his club. It seems Kilgallen was chasing this thread to New Orleans?
Dorothy Kilgallen was a great conspiracy theorist who bucked the trend that LHO acted alone and felt that the key to uncover the truth was to be found in Jack Ruby. She attended the trial and met with defense attorneys Belli and Tonahill etc. That can't be denied. In fact, she wanted to write a book and make a movie after what she saw or heard. She thought she could expose the lies and besides, she was a close and personal friend of JFK himself. She seemed to enjoy the good life and was sharp - even up to a day or so before her death. Was the way she died the way of the rich? or was it an accidental suicide? She seemed to have a lot going for her. The claim made in the video posted below seemed to indicate she had a drink with alcohol mixed with 3 different barbiturates. This same fate would appear to coincide at the time with the death of Marilyn Monroe and Woolworth heir Donahue. It seems the rich Woolworth family including Barbara Hutton had a lot of untimely deaths - drug OD - happenstance! Truth is, what a better way to knock someone off by slipping something into their drink and make it appear as a suicide.
What is odd about her death is that all the research she had done for her upcoming book and possible movie all disappeared. If she had serious evidence and nothing she had was true, why was it slid under the carpet and no traces found of it? Normally, there should be nothing wrong with exposing it. Instead, it became a dead end and anything she had collected, shredded.
As CTers, that is what is most disturbing. You don't have to look any further than many happenstances which just seem to get rid of people at convenience. Whether it is accused leaker Seth Rich dying while jogging (no perpetrators found) or a "suicidal" Jeffrey Epstein hanging himself while cameras record nothing and guards sleep. Hilary Clinton can pound apart her devices so no one can look at them and the Steele Dossier doesn't even enter into the investigation of the Mueller Report! Life seems to be filled with happenstance which never gets investigated and you are lead to believe are non-issues.
If you follow much of the newspaper articles done by Kilgallen and reported by Mark Shaw in his video "a reporter that knew too much", it follows that things have been hidden and remain hidden because truth hurts. The fact that the "TSBD Museum" will only allow Jack Ruby defense trial transcripts to be entered into their archives at their terms and control, suggests that they only want LHO narrative as a LNer to be posted for the public to see and to continue evidence manipulation. What makes it so important that people are NOT allowed to see all evidence and form their own opinions and conclusions? What is so critical about controlling the narrative? A lot of good information is contained In Mark Shaw's video! I know it is long but is well worth the watch as he shows columns that Dorothy Kilgallen wrote and quotes them on screen.
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It seems Kilgallen was chasing this thread to New Orleans?
She seems to have done no research into the assassination after the publication of the Warren Report.
Dorothy Kilgallen was a great conspiracy theorist who bucked the trend that LHO acted alone and felt that the key to uncover the truth was to be found in Jack Ruby.
She once thought ten people could testify that Oswald and Ruby were acquaintances, and allegations she was told like the rifle found on the sixth floor was a Mauser.
She attended the trial and met with defense attorneys Belli and Tonahill etc. That can't be denied. In fact, she wanted to write a book and make a movie after what she saw or heard.
She was preparing a compilation book called Murder One.
What is odd about her death is that all the research she had done for her upcoming book and possible movie all disappeared.
The book contents were outlined in an article ((Journal-American, Nov. 8, 1965) and there was no reference to the book including the JFK assassination or Jack Ruby.
If she had serious evidence and nothing she had was true, why was it slid under the carpet and no traces found of it? Normally, there should be nothing wrong with exposing it. Instead, it became a dead end and anything she had collected, shredded.
It was shredded?
As CTers, that is what is most disturbing. You don't have to look any further than many happenstances which just seem to get rid of people at convenience. Whether it is accused leaker Seth Rich dying while jogging (no perpetrators found) or a "suicidal" Jeffrey Epstein hanging himself while cameras record nothing and guards sleep. Hilary Clinton can pound apart her devices so no one can look at them and the Steele Dossier doesn't even enter into the investigation of the Mueller Report! Life seems to be filled with happenstance which never gets investigated and you are lead to believe are non-issues.
The "pattern" becomes a trail of conspiracy, offering "peeks" at the dark state.
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She seems to have done no research into the assassination after the publication of the Warren Report.
She once thought ten people could testify that Oswald and Ruby were acquaintances, and allegations she was told like the rifle found on the sixth floor was a Mauser.
She was preparing a compilation book called Murder One.
The book contents were outlined in an article ((Journal-American, Nov. 8, 1965) and there was no reference to the book including the JFK assassination or Jack Ruby.
It was shredded?
The "pattern" becomes a trail of conspiracy, offering "peeks" at the dark state.
It seems this book came out long after she was dead and assigned her as a sole author? Who put the book together would be a better question - from whose perspective was it written for or by who exactly? It obviously didn't contain any significant material from her with regards to what she determined about Jack Ruby. Someone else wrote it. This means someone else plagiarized and used her name as author of her book and may have edited or allowed it to be edited/published as desired. According to author Mark Shaw, Ms. Kilgallen didn't have a good relationship with her husband and could have even been a possible suspect in her death. He mentions that not all the children she had were his. Obviously she died alone and the husband was not present, meaning she wasn't at home with him when they found her in bed with clothes on and a book laying there as if she was reading. He didn't find his wife, but the hairdresser did in the morning. She was likely estranged from her husband at the time.
She met someone at the bar the night she died. Obviously, in an investigation, they could have tried to determine if her doctor (or someone else?) prescribed the strange barbiturate cocktail she took or if it was slipped in her drink. Was it a matter of habit or routine or did she buy the 3 different drugs while drinking at the bar for an extra kick? One would expect this as a routine investigation of someone so famous. Was this investigated for this celebrity? For example, We know that Michael Jackson's source for his anesthetic was his own private doctor. Ms. Kilgallen was quite a famous lady at the time and that venue should have been thoroughly investigated.
About that book Murder One, someone seemed to indicate she wasn't the author (published 1967) and I quote this below. I have not found the Wikipedia link yet, but quoted a man name Trevoc who says he researched connections.
https://www.amazon.com/Murder-one-Dorothy-Kilgallen/dp/B007T4TJES (https://www.amazon.com/Murder-one-Dorothy-Kilgallen/dp/B007T4TJES)
Here is the quote from Trevoc in 2012 in the book review:
"I admit to not having read this book, but as I do research conspiracies such as JFK assassination, 911 and other unsolved events, I found Kilgallen's connection to JFK assassination interesting. So, I researched further to learn more about her costars on Whats My Line? as well as her family and in the process, found that this book called "Murder One" was not at all written by Ms. Kilgallen.
Bennet Cerf, one of her co-panelists on Whats My Line?, was the owner of the book publishing company called Random House, and although he never admitted it, his wife admitted after Cerf's death that Kilgallen was not the author.
Here is the quote from Wikipedia
"Although Bennett Cerf was audiotaped on January 23, 1968 reminiscing about Kilgallen, he said nothing about her death or about the book Murder One that his company Random House had published in 1967 with the late Dorothy Kilgallen listed as the sole author. Years after his death, his widow Phyllis Fraser admitted to Kilgallen biographer Lee Israel that a writer named Allan Ullman actually had written it with Richard Kollmar's(Dorothy's husband) approval."
This account could very well be true as Allan Ullman's obituary in 1982 shows him associated with Random House.
https://www.nytimes.com/1982/03/17/obituaries/allan-ullman.html (https://www.nytimes.com/1982/03/17/obituaries/allan-ullman.html)
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It certainly would appear that Jack Ruby had involvement prior to his shooting of LHO. He provides a "tip" to KLIF radio station (at 5:45). That in itself is unusual since he became the killer of LHO soon thereafter! In other words, it doesn't happen by happenstance but by clear and deliberate motive and action. In my opinion, Ruby was a very important player. What makes people believe he was a great patriot for what he did? What we do know is that he owned a night/stripclub, had typical mafia connections and also enjoyed the company of Dallas Police officers who came to his club to drink and party and enjoy the nightshows he hosted! In and of itself, that means nothing. However, he could easily have ties to organized crime figures like Carlos Marcello or even to those police officers that frequented his club. It seems Kilgallen was chasing this thread to New Orleans?
Dorothy Kilgallen was a great conspiracy theorist who bucked the trend that LHO acted alone and felt that the key to uncover the truth was to be found in Jack Ruby. She attended the trial and met with defense attorneys Belli and Tonahill etc. That can't be denied. In fact, she wanted to write a book and make a movie after what she saw or heard. She thought she could expose the lies and besides, she was a close and personal friend of JFK himself. She seemed to enjoy the good life and was sharp - even up to a day or so before her death. Was the way she died the way of the rich? or was it an accidental suicide? She seemed to have a lot going for her. The claim made in the video posted below seemed to indicate she had a drink with alcohol mixed with 3 different barbiturates. This same fate would appear to coincide at the time with the death of Marilyn Monroe and Woolworth heir Donahue. It seems the rich Woolworth family including Barbara Hutton had a lot of untimely deaths - drug OD - happenstance! Truth is, what a better way to knock someone off by slipping something into their drink and make it appear as a suicide.
What is odd about her death is that all the research she had done for her upcoming book and possible movie all disappeared. If she had serious evidence and nothing she had was true, why was it slid under the carpet and no traces found of it? Normally, there should be nothing wrong with exposing it. Instead, it became a dead end and anything she had collected, shredded.
As CTers, that is what is most disturbing. You don't have to look any further than many happenstances which just seem to get rid of people at convenience. Whether it is accused leaker Seth Rich dying while jogging (no perpetrators found) or a "suicidal" Jeffrey Epstein hanging himself while cameras record nothing and guards sleep. Hilary Clinton can pound apart her devices so no one can look at them and the Steele Dossier doesn't even enter into the investigation of the Mueller Report! Life seems to be filled with happenstance which never gets investigated and you are lead to believe are non-issues.
If you follow much of the newspaper articles done by Kilgallen and reported by Mark Shaw in his video "a reporter that knew too much", it follows that things have been hidden and remain hidden because truth hurts. The fact that the "TSBD Museum" will only allow Jack Ruby defense trial transcripts to be entered into their archives at their terms and control, suggests that they only want LHO narrative as a LNer to be posted for the public to see and to continue evidence manipulation. What makes it so important that people are NOT allowed to see all evidence and form their own opinions and conclusions? What is so critical about controlling the narrative? A lot of good information is contained In Mark Shaw's video! I know it is long but is well worth the watch as he shows columns that Dorothy Kilgallen wrote and quotes them on screen.
Allan, you are troublingly misinformed and do a deliberate disservice to your readers.
In the recently resurrected Kilgallen thread, I proved Kilgallen "biographer" Lee Israel, had crapped all over Simkin's forum. (If the poster Simkin introduced as Lee Israel, was in fact, Lee Israel!)
My warnings were ignored, at the time in 2012, and since, despite Lee Israel's exposure as a criminal forger. There is no policy at that
forum or the Spartacus biography pages to update or to disclaim. The result is nurturing of suspicion by misinfo. The stated goal is steady turn out of new Spartacus pages.... content to attract eyeballs at the expense of accuracy. Penn Jones was motivated to create and sell content via his local newspaper and book authorship BUSINESSES. The result of both of these prolific authors of successive generations is evident in every CT oriented forum and website. (whowhatwhy.com recently featured misinfo presented by author Peter Janney...)
I have volunteered as a moderator of comments submitted to both the Simkin and the jfkfacts.org forums. I got "sucked in" late, not until 2008.
My firsthand experience included being old enough to react to assassin Ruby, on the 24th, with profound concern. My only bias beyond that was the emotional shred from seeing JFK in person in 1962, riding by in an open car illuminated by a brilliant autumn sunset. It was not hard to plug that memory into the nightmare visuals of the Z film, a year later. When you are on the cusp of teenhood, a year is more like a decade seems, in the current stage of life. Almost five years passed; the losses of RFK and MLK, Jr descended in quick succession. Resistance to the war detoured me until 1977. Career and family life delivered me finally into the lap of the affordable PC, dial-up modem, gopher, Alta Vista, Lycos, and Excite search portals. 2008 and yet another election hinging on the outcome of illegal, avoidable war. An article was published, titled "Mr. Obama's Neighborhood".
Mr. Obama's neighborhood - Magazine - Jerusalem Post (Originially published in 2008 in Jerusalem Post.)
https://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Features/Mr-Obamas-neighborhood
Feb 15, 2010 - Traveling from the soaring skyscraper of Crown's General Dynamics .... "I said to him, 'Mr. Obama, someday you will be vice president of the United States. .... committed Jews support him, Lester Crown and Alan Solow among ...
Quite familiar with General Dynamics, I was entirely unfamiliar with Lester or his father, Henry.
I dove in, probably much too deeply, in hindsight. In 1957, Earl Warren's daughter, Virginia, was associated closely enough with dramatically older (than her) Henry Crown partner, Conrad Hilton, there was speculation in print that marriage was looming. A year later, Virginia married the middleaged host of "What's My Line" John C Daly.
A Simkin authored excerpt.: (preceded by a section with an emphasis on sexual themed gossip about DC pols generally and JFK particularly.)
This is sourced from a directly competing business (5 - NY Post quote) of the business Dorothy worked for.....
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKkilgallen.htm
Famous Crimes > Dorothy Kilgallen
.....
(13) Lee Israel, Kilgallen (1979)
During one of her (Kilgallen’s) visits - sometime in March, before the verdict – she prevailed upon Joe Tonahill to make arrangements through Judge Brown for a private interview with Jack Ruby......
..........
(5) New York Post (28th April, 1960)
In recent months she (Dorothy Kilgallen) has often been in the company of singer Johnnie Ray, a troubled young man whose career suffered serious setbacks in the past few years. Her relationship to Ray has been described - there has never been a hint of anything else - as "maternal and protective," and sometimes her maternal instinct is positively fierce.
"I saw her at the Waldorf with Ray," a friend recalled. "She left the table for a moment and some young, pretty girl usurped her chair and proceeded to tell Ray how good she thought he was. Dorothy came back, flew at the girl telling her to 'Keep your hands off my escort and leave the table.' It was the only time I ever saw her lose her temper in public."
"It's an odd relationship - but it's certainly antiseptic," said society photographer Jerome Zerbe. "Ray is rather an insecure person and she gives him security and companionship. And he's an excellent escort for her - her husband is busy so many evenings. It's one of those relationships that is mutually satisfactory."...
(21) Donald Nolen, review of Lee Israel, Kilgallen, Amazon (14th January, 2004)
So posterity needs to evaluate each mysterious death according to how plausible the murder theory is. Lee Israel puts in this book some evidence that a broken love affair with Johnnie Ray and the fall of the Hearst newspaper empire gave Dorothy Kilgallen trouble sleeping, and she could have mixed barbiturates with booze. But Lee also details the strange circumstances of Dorothy's death.....
.....
(15) William Penn Jones, The Midlothian Mirror (November 25, 1965)
I have a concern for the strange things happening in America in recent months....
.....
(16) William Penn Jones, Volume I: Forgive My Grief (1966)
Now we can add to that list of strange deaths that of Miss Dorothy Kilgallen...
......
(18) William Penn Jones, Volume II: Forgive My Grief (1967)
Tom Howard knew too much from Ruby and he knew too well how the Dallas power structure and Police Department worked. Howard had to die....
VS
http://gaycultureland.blogspot.com/2016/10/johnnie-ray.html
Thursday, 27 October 2016
Johnnie Ray
After Frank Sinatra, and before Elvis and the Beatles, there was an unlikely pop idol - gangly, effete and adorned with a clumsy hearing aid who was met at airports by screaming girls who tore the clothes from his limbs. This man was gay and his name was Johnnie Ray.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0CGC8fd0u58/WBFRFmmTg1I/AAAAAAAABary KampM/ASasf3obQ7MWvurxJb1gXWGNhaVPTLdCQCLcB/s400/168%2BJohnnie%2BRay.jpg)
.....Despite her knowledge of the solicitation arrest, Marilyn Morrison, daughter of the owner of West Hollywood's Mocambo nightclub, married Ray at the peak of his American fame. Aware of Ray's sexuality, Morrison told a friend she would "straighten it out." The couple separated in 1953 and divorced in 1954.
Ray went to trial following the second arrest in 1959, also in Detroit, for soliciting an undercover officer in a bar called the Brass Rail, which has been described variously as attracting traveling musicians and attracting gay people.
Dorothy Kilgallen, a close friend of Johnnie, who was nationally known for her syndicated newspaper column, The Voice of Broadway, and her role as panelist on the television game show "What's My Line", was a strong support for Ray during the solicitation trial in Detroit in December 1959, possibly communicating by telephone with the district attorney or judge.
Ray's fate was decided by a jury composed entirely of older women, one of whom ran to Ray to console him when he fainted upon hearing the 'not guilty' verdict. In the 60s, Ray had a long-term relationship with his manager, Bill Franklin.
Eventually the success waned, helped along by the ugly rumors and the bad publicity. One of his most loyal audiences was found in England, where he appeared many times. When Elvis arrived and eclipsed everything before him, Johnnie Ray returned to the bars and lounges, making a comfortable living.
In 1960, Ray was hospitalized after contracting tuberculosis. He was also battling with alcoholism, but in the mid 60s he made a real attempt to sober up. In 1965, he was 38 years old when he was emotionally devastated by the death of close friend Dorothy Kilgallen, but managed to stay sober despite his grief.
He began to regain his health. Shortly after he returned to the United States from a European concert tour that he headlined with Judy Garland, an American doctor informed him that he was well enough to drink an occasional glass of wine. Ray resumed drinking heavily and his health quickly began to decline. He continued touring until he gave his final concert, a benefit for the Grand Theater in Salem, Oregon, on October 6, 1989. In early 1990, poor health forced him to check into Cedars-Sinai Medical Center. On February 24, 1990, he died of liver failure at Cedars-Sinai in Los Angeles. He is buried at Hopewell Cemetery near Hopewell, ...
Two very short Johnnie Ray (diplomatic, classy) interview clips...near the end of the second one seems (to me) a man close to coming out of his closet, on camera,
What's My Line? - Johnnie Ray; Ozzie Nelson [panel]; Janet Blair [panel] (Jun 9, 1957)
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.....
As CTers, that is what is most disturbing. You don't have to look any further than many happenstances which just seem to get rid of people at convenience. Whether it is accused leaker Seth Rich dying while jogging (no perpetrators found) or a "suicidal" Jeffrey Epstein hanging himself while cameras record nothing and guards sleep. Hilary Clinton can pound apart her devices so no one can look at them and the Steele Dossier doesn't even enter into the investigation of the Mueller Report! Life seems to be filled with happenstance which never gets investigated and you are lead to believe are non-issues.
If you follow much of the newspaper articles done by Kilgallen and reported by Mark Shaw in his video "a reporter that knew too much", it follows that things have been hidden and remain hidden because truth hurts. .....
......
Mark Shaw claimed the autopsy of Ms. Kilgallen was suspicious because it was not performed in the borough, Manhattan, where Kilgallen was found dead.
Mark Shaw seems a sensationalist fueled by shortcomings or omissions in his own research.
(http://jfkforum.com/images/KilgallenJamesLuke16Nov1965.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/KilgallenJamesLuke14Dec1966.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/KilgallenManyaKahnFlip.jpg)
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The fact that a Mossad agent confessed about Ben Gurion ordering the hit proves Israel was involved. One of the oddest things Ruby said was that he wanted to show the world about Jews. Because for some reason he was worried Jews would be blamed.
Ruby was full of spombleprofglidnoctobuns. Just like Israel was about the Dimona plant. And Ruby wouldn't have told the truth if he was threatned, or his family was threatened if he were to talk. That's how Israel works. Blackmail and threats.