JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jerry Freeman on January 05, 2020, 05:12:23 AM
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To start off with..Why did Oswald [in April 1963] decide to jump up..leave his wife and baby in Dallas and depart for New Orleans?
If your answer is because he must have been really looney-- than you must be and it would show that you have studied nothing about this case.
There were no shortages of jobs in Dallas in 1963. You could practically quit a job you didn't like and walk across the street and get another one.
Get into some real discussion... Hint-- 544 Camp St :-\
(https://midnightwriternews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Oswald-in-NO-300x258.jpg)
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To start off with..Why did Oswald [in April 1963] decide to jump up..leave his wife and baby in Dallas and depart for New Orleans?
If your answer is because he must have been really looney-- than you must be and it would show that you have studied nothing about this case.
There were no shortages of jobs in Dallas in 1963. You could practically quit a job you didn't like and walk across the street and get another one.
Get into some real discussion... Hint-- 544 Camp St :-\
(https://midnightwriternews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Oswald-in-NO-300x258.jpg)
Why did Oswald [in April 1963] decide to jump up..leave his wife and baby in Dallas and depart for New Orleans?
There were no shortages of jobs in Dallas in 1963. You could practically quit a job you didn't like and walk across the street and get another one.
WOW!!... Thank You, Jerry... This very question has nagged me for decades. WHY did Lee suddenly decide to go to New Orleans?... It was NOT to seek unskilled labor employment...Because as you've pointed out there were hundreds of unskilled labor jobs ( like a machinery oiler in a coffee plant) available in the Dallas / Fort Worth area. ( and many of those jobs paid better wages than the job at Rielly's coffee plant. However the Dallas FW jobs were hundreds of miles away from the operating area of Bannister and Associates.)
IMO he was asked to move his operation ( intelligence activities) to N.O. ...and he was NOT unemployed at the time. It was his employer who requested that he transfer his base of operations to New Orleans and see if he could determine who was controlling the renegades who were attacking Cuba, and Russian ships in Cuba.
Lee's mission was to gather information about WHO was operating illegally out of Louisiana and defying JFK's orders that all attacks on Cuba and the Russian ships there be halted.
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The Warren Commission did not investigate Oswald in New Orleans. There was no investigation of 'private investigator' Guy Banister whose office Oswald was seen going into several times.
Reily Coffee is now Reily Foods...still just around the corner from Lafayette Park where Banister's office was.
Banister's secretary Ms Roberts testified before the HSCA and reportedly said the Oswald had been to Banister's office several times and on one occasion brought Marina with him [I don't think that was Marina]
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1212#relPageId=133&tab=page
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To start off with..Why did Oswald [in April 1963] decide to jump up..leave his wife and baby in Dallas and depart for New Orleans?
If your answer is because he must have been really looney-- than you must be and it would show that you have studied nothing about this case.
There were no shortages of jobs in Dallas in 1963. You could practically quit a job you didn't like and walk across the street and get another one.
Get into some real discussion... Hint-- 544 Camp St :-\
Here's another hint: General Walker.
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Here's another hint: General Walker.
And another: Richard Nixon
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Here's another hint: General Walker.
Two weeks later? That’s some serious fleeing!
If they actually had any evidence that Oswald was the one who shot at Walker, would he have somehow been immune from prosecution in New Orleans, using his real name and not hiding?
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And another: Richard Nixon
What about him?
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What about him?
LHO’s attempt to go check out Nixon (with his pistol), which Marina says she thwarted, helped convince her that LHO should get out of Dallas and go to New Orleans.
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LHO’s attempt to go check out Nixon (with his pistol), which Marina says she thwarted, helped convince her that LHO should get out of Dallas and go to New Orleans.
Except Nixon didn’t come to Dallas anywhere near that time.
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Except Nixon didn’t come to Dallas anywhere near that time.
The question was: Why did LHO go to New Orleans? Whether or not Nixon was actually there isn’t relevant to the question. Marina apparently believed what she said LHO told her. And this was a contributing factor in the decision to go to New Orleans.
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Oswald confessed to his own wife on the very night of the Walker attempt! Oswald somehow knew about the attempt before any newspaper had reported it. He also had a photo of Walker's home and left Marina written instructions on what to do if he was arrested or killed. But still there is "no evidence." Just poor old Lee once again the victim of lies and/or bad luck. Let me guess. Having a picture of Walker's home in his possession doesn't mean Oswald was the shooter. Maybe he just admired Walker's home and it was an unlucky coincidence that he snapped a picture. Marina is a liar. Why she would lie to implicate her husband we are left to ponder but it is so. The note is not signed, dated, or specifies an intent to murder Walker written in Oswald's own blood, and is not notarized by the Pope, so it can be dismissed. What action Oswald was concerned might lead to his being arrested or killed is again left for us to ponder. Who knows? No explanation is forthcoming. Nothing to see there though. Just the kind of thing anyone might do when going out. It is all just some unexplained mystery or coincidence. Perhaps the dynamic suburban housewife duo of Marina and Ruth Paine are behind the frame up. Of course, it is a strawman to interpret from this any implication of a conspiracy. All the fake evidence, lies or coincidences just floated down from the heavens to implicate Oswald. Round and round it goes down the rabbit hole.
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The question was: Why did LHO go to New Orleans? Whether or not Nixon was actually there isn’t relevant to the question. Marina apparently believed what she said LHO told her. And this was a contributing factor in the decision to go to New Orleans.
LBJ, the vice president, was in Dallas in the exact time frame that Marina reported this incident occurred. She had never heard of LBJ, though, and only knew of Nixon as the VP. As a result, she mixed the two up in her mind when equating a threat against the VP as a threat made against Nixon (who she thought of as the VP).
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LBJ, the vice president, was in Dallas in the exact time frame that Marina reported this incident occurred. She had never heard of LBJ, though, and only knew of Nixon as the VP. As a result, she mixed the two up in her mind when equating a threat against the VP as a threat made against Nixon (who she thought of as the VP).
Thanks, I couldn’t remember what the actual facts were. Just another example of the inconsistencies that exist throughout the case that can be logically explained. Except to the CT crowd...
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Oswald confessed to his own wife on the very night of the Walker attempt! Oswald somehow knew about the attempt before any newspaper had reported it. He also had a photo of Walker's home and left Marina written instructions on what to do if he was arrested or killed. But still there is "no evidence." Just poor old Lee once again the victim of lies and/or bad luck. Let me guess. Having a picture of Walker's home in his possession doesn't mean Oswald was the shooter. Maybe he just admired Walker's home and it was an unlucky coincidence that he snapped a picture. Marina is a liar. Why she would lie to implicate her husband we are left to ponder but it is so. The note is not signed, dated, or specifies an intent to murder Walker written in Oswald's own blood, and is not notarized by the Pope, so it can be dismissed. What action Oswald was concerned might lead to his being arrested or killed is again left for us to ponder. Who knows? No explanation is forthcoming. Nothing to see there though. Just the kind of thing anyone might do when going out. It is all just some unexplained mystery or coincidence. Perhaps the dynamic suburban housewife duo of Marina and Ruth Paine are behind the frame up. Of course, it is a strawman to interpret from this any implication of a conspiracy. All the fake evidence, lies or coincidences just floated down from the heavens to implicate Oswald. Round and round it goes down the rabbit hole.
Oswald confessed to his own wife on the very night of the Walker attempt!
Well he might have confessed to some other man's wife..... But the De Morenschildt's were out of town, that night. ( De M wanted a solid alibi )
Lee did in fact tell Marina that he had fired a bullet through Walker's window. ( he might have told her that he had tried to kill Walker, even though he had no such intent) He wanted Marina to believe he had tried to kill Walker so when the police came looking for him she would tell them what he had said....and she would show them the fake dossier ( the blue note book) with the BY photo and the photos of Walker's house. Thus he would appear to be a fugitive for attempting murder. The story in the newspapers would have been convincing for Castro's agents, and Castro would probably granted Lee asylum in Cuba. And that was the goal that Lee and his handler were hoping to achieve.
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Oswald confessed to his own wife on the very night of the Walker attempt! Oswald somehow knew about the attempt before any newspaper had reported it. He also had a photo of Walker's home and left Marina written instructions on what to do if he was arrested or killed. But still there is "no evidence." Just poor old Lee once again the victim of lies and/or bad luck. Let me guess. Having a picture of Walker's home in his possession doesn't mean Oswald was the shooter. Maybe he just admired Walker's home and it was an unlucky coincidence that he snapped a picture. Marina is a liar. Why she would lie to implicate her husband we are left to ponder but it is so. The note is not signed, dated, or specifies an intent to murder Walker written in Oswald's own blood, and is not notarized by the Pope, so it can be dismissed. What action Oswald was concerned might lead to his being arrested or killed is again left for us to ponder. Who knows? No explanation is forthcoming. Nothing to see there though. Just the kind of thing anyone might do when going out. It is all just some unexplained mystery or coincidence. Perhaps the dynamic suburban housewife duo of Marina and Ruth Paine are behind the frame up. Of course, it is a strawman to interpret from this any implication of a conspiracy. All the fake evidence, lies or coincidences just floated down from the heavens to implicate Oswald. Round and round it goes down the rabbit hole.
And, of course, shortly before the assassination attempt, Oswald had Marina photograph him wearing this outfit. What a coincidence. Of course, they're all faked too.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HPQnsOqQfnY/Tmel8ssSYOI/AAAAAAAAhTc/hQBiAfX1ZpA/s1600/Oswald-Backyard-Photos.jpg)
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And, of course, shortly before the assassination attempt, Oswald has Marina photograph him wearing this outfit. What a coincidence. Of course, they're all faked too.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HPQnsOqQfnY/Tmel8ssSYOI/AAAAAAAAhTc/hQBiAfX1ZpA/s1600/Oswald-Backyard-Photos.jpg)
You really should learn the facts ( perhaps , then you wouldn't appear as such a duffus)
Only an ignorant duffus would post the photo labeled CE 133C and claim that Lee had Marina take THREE BY photos. There is no Commission Exhibit as CE 133C
The Photo never even appeared until years after the Warren Commission was disband.
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Two weeks later? That’s some serious fleeing!
If they actually had any evidence that Oswald was the one who shot at Walker, would he have somehow been immune from prosecution in New Orleans, using his real name and not hiding?
Lee knew that the hoax attempt on Walker had flopped when he read the newspapers and learned the the police weren't seriously pursuing the Walker incident. He scoffed at their ineptness and said that they couldn't even get the caliber of the rifle correct.... The police referred to the bullet as a 30.06 bullet. (At least that's what the radio and newspapers were reporting)
There are 30.06 CARTRIDGES but there is no such bullet as a 30.06 bullet ( projectile) ..... There are 30 caliber bullets ( projectiles) that are used in many different rifles that are designed to utilize the 30 caliber bullets.
Since the police report identified the spent projectile found at Walker's as a "steel jacketed 30.06 bullet" the erroneous identification must have originated with with the detective who investigated the incident. When Lee learned that they were looking for a person with a 30.06 rifle he scoffed at their ineptness .... He knew that the hoax plot had failed and they were not going to come looking for him , and he would not flee to Cuba.
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Oswald confessed to his own wife on the very night of the Walker attempt!
Well he might have confessed to some other man's wife..... But the De Morenschildt's were out of town, that night. ( De M wanted a solid alibi )
Lee did in fact tell Marina that he had fired a bullet through Walker's window. ( he might have told her that he had tried to kill Walker, even though he had no such intent) He wanted Marina to believe he had tried to kill Walker so when the police came looking for him she would tell them what he had said....and she would show them the fake dossier ( the blue note book) with the BY photo and the photos of Walker's house. Thus he would appear to be a fugitive for attempting murder. The story in the newspapers would have been convincing for Castro's agents, and Castro would probably granted Lee asylum in Cuba. And that was the goal that Lee and his handler were hoping to achieve.
So Oswald was involved in his own frame up? And the plan was for him to wait around for the police to link him to the Walker crime, hope he wasn't home at that moment to be arrested, and that Marina would rat him out. But wait there is more! Oswald would somehow have to make his way to Cuba. If he succeeded, then it would be impossible to frame him for the JFK assassination since he would be in Cuba. Similarly, if he was arrested he would have been in jail (a good alibi for the JFK assassination). But for reasons that remain unclear, the "handlers" behind this elaborate plot (presumably an intelligence agency like the CIA) never do the most obvious thing. An essential part of this fantasy. Plant some evidence linking Oswald to the crime or at least pointing the DPD in his direction! How about maybe Oswald leaves his rifle at the scene instead of burying it? Instead the crime goes unsolved until after Oswald's death. Rendering the whole operation, as fantasized here, entirely pointless. Good grief.
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So Oswald was involved in his own frame up? And the plan was for him to wait around for the police to link him to the Walker crime, hope he wasn't home at that moment to be arrested, and that Marina would rat him out. But wait there is more! Oswald would somehow have to make his way to Cuba. If he succeeded, then it would be impossible to frame him for the JFK assassination since he would be in Cuba. Similarly, if he was arrested he would have been in jail (a good alibi for the JFK assassination). But for reasons that remain unclear, the "handlers" behind this elaborate plot (presumably an intelligence agency like the CIA) never do the most obvious thing. An essential part of this fantasy. Plant some evidence linking Oswald to the crime or at least pointing the DPD in his direction! How about maybe Oswald leaves his rifle at the scene instead of burying it? Instead the crime goes unsolved until after Oswald's death. Rendering the whole operation, as fantasized here, entirely pointless. Good grief.
If he succeeded, then it would be impossible to frame him for the JFK assassination since he would be in Cuba.
You are badly befuddled Mr "Smith" ..... The Walker Hoax occurred in April of 1963.... The coup d ' etate occurred in November of 1963.
If the Walker hoax had succeeded there may never have been a coup d 'etate..... Because If Lee had learned that the Russians and their missiles had in fact cleared out of Cuba, then JFK would have been completely free to put more pressure on the CIA renegades who were causing all the problems by their attacks on Cuba and the Russian Ships that were in Cuba. ... Who knows ...Perhaps the renegades who engineered the coup d' etate might have been in prison....and unable to promote the murder of JFK.
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You really should learn the facts ( perhaps , then you wouldn't appear as such a duffus)
Only an ignorant duffus would post the photo labeled CE 133C and claim that Lee had Marina take THREE BY photos. There is no Commission Exhibit as CE 133C
The Photo never even appeared until years after the Warren Commission was disband.
Swell, the third photo appeared after the WC ended and that makes it fake? Or irrelevant to my point? Did or did not Oswald dress up in this costume and have Marina photograph him?
Shortly before the attempt on Walker Oswald dressed up in this outfit and had Marina photograph him. If you want to refute that then try.
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You really should learn the facts ( perhaps , then you wouldn't appear as such a duffus)
Only an ignorant duffus would post the photo labeled CE 133C and claim that Lee had Marina take THREE BY photos. There is no Commission Exhibit as CE 133C
The Photo never even appeared until years after the Warren Commission was disband.
But if the WC had entered the third pose into evidence, chances are they would have labelled it "CE 133C". The HSCA must have thought along those lines, as they labelled "CE 133C" as such in 1978.
You and I needn't be so nitpicky with all the spelling mistakes we make.
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But if the WC had entered the third pose into evidence, chances are they would have labelled it "CE 133C". The HSCA must have thought along those lines, as they labelled "CE 133C" as such in 1978.
You and I needn't be so nitpicky with all the spelling mistakes we make.
Of course, I never said these were from the Warren Commission. I grabbed them from a quick search and posted them. Whether they were from the WC or HSCA or elsewhere is irrelevant to my point about the behavior/nature of Oswald (as I see it).
As to the HSCA labeling, this is what they included (they named/labeled it 133-c): https://www.maryferrell.org/photos.html?set=HSCA-EXHIBITS
Corrected link: https://www.maryferrell.org/archive/photos/HSCA-EXHIBITS/Photo_hsca_ex_178.jpg
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The question was: Why did LHO go to New Orleans? Whether or not Nixon was actually there isn’t relevant to the question. Marina apparently believed what she said LHO told her. And this was a contributing factor in the decision to go to New Orleans.
I don’t understand. Are you saying that it was Marina’s decision for Lee to go to New Orleans, because she believed he wanted to take a look at Nixon?
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If he succeeded, then it would be impossible to frame him for the JFK assassination since he would be in Cuba.
You are badly befuddled Mr "Smith" ..... The Walker Hoax occurred in April of 1963.... The coup d ' etate occurred in November of 1963.
If the Walker hoax had succeeded there may never have been a coup d 'etate..... Because If Lee had learned that the Russians and their missiles had in fact cleared out of Cuba, then JFK would have been completely free to put more pressure on the CIA renegades who were causing all the problems by their attacks on Cuba and the Russian Ships that were in Cuba. ... Who knows ...Perhaps the renegades who engineered the coup d' etate might have been in prison....and unable to promote the murder of JFK.
You have gone beyond fiction here to science fiction. But try to focus. You allege that the plan was to link Oswald to the Walker attempt in order for him to gain entry to Cuba as a spy. Or something along those lines. But no evidence is left at the crime scene for the authorities to link Oswald to the crime - the entire purpose of this alleged hoax. Why wouldn't they leave something or somehow put the authorities onto Oswald as a suspect if that was the entire purpose of this plot? It wouldn't be very difficult. CTers certainly believe they organized an elaborate frame up of Oswald to link him to the JFK assassination but here there not so much. And when the trail grows cold they do nothing. Do you see the obvious fallacy in suggesting that the entire purpose of the Walker attempt was to link it to Oswald but then planting no evidence to do so?
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Oswald confessed to his own wife on the very night of the Walker attempt! Oswald somehow knew about the attempt before any newspaper had reported it.
Marina said a lot of things that were inaccurate or inconsistent. Like the Nixon thing.
He also had a photo of Walker's home
That was not “ in his possession”, it was in the Paine’s garage. How do you know that was his?
and left Marina written instructions on what to do if he was arrested or killed.
You mean the unsigned, undated note in Russian that doesn’t mention Walker or shooting?
The note is not signed, dated, or specifies an intent to murder Walker written in Oswald's own blood, and is not notarized by the Pope, so it can be dismissed.
This is just empty rhetoric. Just because you want the note to be about shooting Walker doesn’t make it so.
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LBJ, the vice president, was in Dallas in the exact time frame that Marina reported this incident occurred. She had never heard of LBJ, though, and only knew of Nixon as the VP. As a result, she mixed the two up in her mind when equating a threat against the VP as a threat made against Nixon (who she thought of as the VP).
Marina said she was sure it wasn’t LBJ. Seems you believe in Marina’s inerrancy when it suits your biases (like knowing exactly when the press reported the Walker shooting).
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And, of course, shortly before the assassination attempt, Oswald had Marina photograph him wearing this outfit. What a coincidence.
Not sure what you think his outfit tells you about who shot at Walker.
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Thanks, I couldn’t remember what the actual facts were. Just another example of the inconsistencies that exist throughout the case that can be logically explained. Except to the CT crowd...
You have the Walker attempt on Apr. 10 and then LBJ's visit on April 23. Oswald then leaves for New Orleans on April 24. It seems pretty clear he is putting distance between himself and the Walker investigation. Two incidents in this timeframe are also indicative that Oswald is starting to lose it. Marina testified and was convinced Oswald had said "Nixon." But in every other respect, LBJ's visit on April 23, as VP, aligns with her account about Nixon. The time frame, newspaper accounts etc. A logical inference - of course rejected by CTers - is that she simply confused LBJ with Nixon because both served as VP. It seems pretty obvious what happened when you look to the totality of Marina's account and the facts.
What is inexplicable is any alternative explanation for the Nixon story. CTers imply or state that Marina made this story up or lied about it because Nixon didn't visit Dallas. Why would she do that? At the very least she, or whoever they suggest coerced her to implicate Oswald, would know that this story as it relates to a Nixon visit could easily be verified. We are talking about a public figure. Marina indicates the visit was reported in the newspaper where Oswald learned of it. So an easy matter to verify. So why make up a story about Nixon visiting Dallas if that never happened and could be debunked? It is inexplicable. If her story is the product of an intentional lie that she was coerced to make to implicate Oswald, it's a simple matter to check the record and make LBJ the target. Why insist it was Nixon? And what are the odds that LBJ is in Dallas at the relevant time? And this visit is reported in the Dallas paper exactly as she indicated? All the stars align with this incident when you realize that LBJ is the person referenced and Marina has confused him for Nixon because she links Nixon to the vice presidency. She honestly but erroneously believed Nixon was the person Oswald referenced.
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You have the Walker attempt on Apr. 10 and then LBJ's visit on April 23. Oswald then leaves for New Orleans on April 24. It seems pretty clear he is putting distance between himself and the Walker investigation. Two incidents in this timeframe are also indicative that Oswald is starting to lose it. Marina testified and was convinced Oswald had said "Nixon." But in every other respect, LBJ's visit on April 23, as VP, aligns with her account about Nixon. The time frame, newspaper accounts etc. A logical inference - of course rejected by CTers - is that she simply confused LBJ with Nixon because both served as VP. It seems pretty obvious what happened when you look to the totality of Marina's account and the facts.
What is inexplicable is any alternative explanation for the Nixon story. CTers imply or state that Marina made this story up or lied about it because Nixon didn't visit Dallas. Why would she do that? At the very least she, or whoever they suggest coerced her to implicate Oswald, would know that this story as it relates to a Nixon visit could easily be verified. We are talking about a public figure. Marina indicates the visit was reported in the newspaper where Oswald learned of it. So an easy matter to verify. So why make up a story about Nixon visiting Dallas if that never happened and could be debunked? It is inexplicable. If her story is the product of an intentional lie that she was coerced to make to implicate Oswald, it's a simple matter to check the record and make LBJ the target. Why insist it was Nixon? And what are the odds that LBJ is in Dallas at the relevant time? And this visit is reported in the Dallas paper exactly as she indicated? All the stars align with this incident when you realize that LBJ is the person referenced and Marina has confused him for Nixon because she links Nixon to the vice presidency. She honestly but erroneously believed Nixon was the person Oswald referenced.
Yes, I agree. Also, it is conceivable that LHO could have told Marina he was going to check out the VP. And Marina could have asked if he was going to see Nixon (based on her mistaken memory of who was the VP). And LHO could have simply decided to lie and say yes. LHO lied compulsively (even when there was no apparent reason to lie) and apparently enjoyed doing so.
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It's laughable that anyone - even a dishonest contrarian - would suggest that someone other than Oswald wrote the note. Who else here would: 1) write a note in Russian; 2) ask that his military papers be retained; 3) instruct someone on what to do in the event of their arrest or death; 4) had a PO box. Do you think Ruth Paine had military records and anticipated being arrested or killed? That eliminates her. Same for Marina. So who else in that household does that leave that matches the relevant criteria relating to the substance of this note and the circumstances under which it was written? No honest person would suggest there is a scintilla of doubt that LHO wrote the note. Either he did or it is a complete fabrication to implicate him in the Walker shooting. There is no possibility this note was written by anyone else for any other purpose who then somehow stuck it in a book belonging to the Oswalds in the Paine house. Those are the only reasonable choices. And the purpose of such a note, as confirmed by Marina, was in relation to the Walker situation. No person is going to leave a note saying "Don't wait up. I'm off to murder Gen. Walker. Lee Harvey Oswald." That is what is being suggested. And, of course, if Oswald had left such a detailed note implicating himself, CTers would allege handwriting is not a science etc. An endless loop of lunacy.
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You have the Walker attempt on Apr. 10 and then LBJ's visit on April 23. Oswald then leaves for New Orleans on April 24. It seems pretty clear he is putting distance between himself and the Walker investigation. Two incidents in this timeframe are also indicative that Oswald is starting to lose it. Marina testified and was convinced Oswald had said "Nixon." But in every other respect, LBJ's visit on April 23, as VP, aligns with her account about Nixon. The time frame, newspaper accounts etc. A logical inference - of course rejected by CTers - is that she simply confused LBJ with Nixon because both served as VP. It seems pretty obvious what happened when you look to the totality of Marina's account and the facts.
What is inexplicable is any alternative explanation for the Nixon story. CTers imply or state that Marina made this story up or lied about it because Nixon didn't visit Dallas. Why would she do that? At the very least she, or whoever they suggest coerced her to implicate Oswald, would know that this story as it relates to a Nixon visit could easily be verified. We are talking about a public figure. Marina indicates the visit was reported in the newspaper where Oswald learned of it. So an easy matter to verify. So why make up a story about Nixon visiting Dallas if that never happened and could be debunked? It is inexplicable. If her story is the product of an intentional lie that she was coerced to make to implicate Oswald, it's a simple matter to check the record and make LBJ the target. Why insist it was Nixon? And what are the odds that LBJ is in Dallas at the relevant time? And this visit is reported in the Dallas paper exactly as she indicated? All the stars align with this incident when you realize that LBJ is the person referenced and Marina has confused him for Nixon because she links Nixon to the vice presidency. She honestly but erroneously believed Nixon was the person Oswald referenced.
Oswald then leaves for New Orleans on April 24. It seems pretty clear he is putting distance between himself and the Walker investigation.
What "investigation"?....The detectives that responded to Walker's residence on the night of 4 /10/63 were merely perfunctory. They answered the call, asked some questions, looked over the evidence, and filed a report.....as required ...and went home to bed. The fact that they reported the bullet was from a 30.06 reveals that they never really investigated the event.
George De M tried to prod the authorities a bit when he told a woman whom he knew was an FBI informant, that Lee Oswald had been the scoundrel who had taken a pot shot AT General Walker..... De M then hightailed it out of Dallas.
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It's laughable that anyone - even a dishonest contrarian - would suggest that someone other than Oswald wrote the note. Who else here would: 1) write a note in Russian; 2) ask that his military papers be retained; 3) instruct someone on what to do in the event of their arrest or death; 4) had a PO box.
What does this have to do with General Walker or shooting? By the way, are you still hunting around for that single example of me being “dishonest”, or are you hoping that if you keep calling me that, it will become true? Much like you think that calling this the “Walker note” somehow makes it about Walker.
Do you think Ruth Paine had military records and anticipated being arrested or killed? That eliminates her. Same for Marina. So who else in that household does that leave that matches the relevant criteria relating to the substance of this note and the circumstances under which it was written?
Why would the author of the note have to be a member of the Paine household?
No honest person would suggest there is a scintilla of doubt that LHO wrote the note.
Disagrees with “Richard” is not the definition of dishonest.
Either he did or it is a complete fabrication to implicate him in the Walker shooting.
False dichotomy. An undated note that doesn’t mention Walker or shooting doesn’t implicate one in the Walker shooting.
And the purpose of such a note, as confirmed by Marina, was in relation to the Walker situation.
Marina also “confirmed” that Oswald was going to “take a look” at Nixon and she trapped him in the bathroom for hours with her pregnant body.
No person is going to leave a note saying "Don't wait up. I'm off to murder Gen. Walker. Lee Harvey Oswald."
Therefore “Richard” is free to make up any story he likes and pretend that it’s the only “honest” interpretation.
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The question was: Why did LHO go to New Orleans? Whether or not Nixon was actually there isn’t relevant to the question. Marina apparently believed what she said LHO told her. And this was a contributing factor in the decision to go to New Orleans.
Guess again ::)
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Quote from: Richard Smith on Today at 07:52:59 AM
Here's another hint: General Walker.
Two weeks later? That’s some serious fleeing!
Another fast getaway by bus? :D These guys are hilarious!
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Oswald confessed to his own wife on the very night of the Walker attempt!
That's probably the 157th time that Smith has posted that same line. He must have been there in his time machine.
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LBJ, the vice president, was in Dallas in the exact time frame that Marina reported this incident occurred. She had never heard of LBJ, though, and only knew of Nixon as the VP. As a result, she mixed the two up in her mind when equating a threat against the VP as a threat made against Nixon (who she thought of as the VP).
Yeah...a crazy mixed up chick :-\ How about Oswald went to NOLA just to get away from her? Nah!
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It's laughable that anyone - even a dishonest contrarian - would suggest that someone other than Oswald wrote the note. Who else here would: 1) write a note in Russian; 2) ask that his military papers be retained; 3) instruct someone on what to do in the event of their arrest or death; 4) had a PO box. Do you think Ruth Paine had military records and anticipated being arrested or killed? That eliminates her. Same for Marina. So who else in that household does that leave that matches the relevant criteria relating to the substance of this note and the circumstances under which it was written? No honest person would suggest there is a scintilla of doubt that LHO wrote the note. Either he did or it is a complete fabrication to implicate him in the Walker shooting. There is no possibility this note was written by anyone else for any other purpose who then somehow stuck it in a book belonging to the Oswalds in the Paine house. Those are the only reasonable choices. And the purpose of such a note, as confirmed by Marina, was in relation to the Walker situation. No person is going to leave a note saying "Don't wait up. I'm off to murder Gen. Walker. Lee Harvey Oswald." That is what is being suggested. And, of course, if Oswald had left such a detailed note implicating himself, CTers would allege handwriting is not a science etc. An endless loop of lunacy.
Interesting that the little prick didn't leave his ring behind on his fascist-hunter night out. Or a note on his personal TGIF big-game hunting-spree daytrip in Dealey & environs.
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Interesting that the little prick didn't leave his ring behind on his fascist-hunter night out. Or a note on his personal TGIF big-game hunting-spree daytrip in Dealey & environs.
If we took what you really know about the assassination and put it in a thimble...it would roll around like a B-B in a boxcar.
Oswald then leaves for New Orleans on April 24. It seems pretty clear he is putting distance between himself and the Walker investigation.
Oswald departs for NO on the 24th two days later reports to the Crescent City's employment office. An FBI informant ultimately takes this case. Oswald LIES and tells them he is staying with Aunt Lillian. Oswald disappears for a week and then reports back to the office. Within the following week the FBI knows Oswald is there in NO. Oswald goes up and sees Guy Banister just as if he knew him already [according to Ms Roberts Banister's secretary and girlfriend]
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That's probably the 157th time that Smith has posted that same line. He must have been there in his time machine.
Why would that require a time machine? It is part of the record. I realize that you find it difficult to distinguish fact from fantasy but all this requires is reading her testimony. That informs us that Oswald confessed to Marina that he fired the shot at Walker. He did so on that night when the only way he could have known about it was to be the shooter. In addition, there is evidence to support his involvement such as a photo of Walker's home and note instructing Marina on what to do if he was arrested or killed. If I have to repeat it, it is because folks like yourself make the same debased claims over and over again. It is all the more humorous that you question the historical record as supported by actual evidence while peddling an outlandish, long debunked, completely baseless Jim Garrison/Oliver Stone fantasy. You not only need a time machine for that one but a magic wand.
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It's astounding that anyone would argue that a note written in Russian, found in a book belonging to the Oswalds that references military papers, a PO box, a baby, and paying rent could have been written by someone other than a member of the Oswald household. A great example of the attempted application of the impossible standard of proof to conjure up fake doubt. Who could this mystery person have been who left such a note in a book belonging to the Oswalds? We are left to ponder as no explanation is forthcoming. For example, how many folks in Texas could write a note in Russian? How many of those had access to this book in the Oswald household? How many also had a baby, PO box, paid rent and served in the military? How many of these anticipated being arrested or killed? How and why would this fantasy person leave such a note in a book belonging to the Oswalds? It is ludicrous. Only Oswald matches the criteria and circumstances relating to the note. It didn't float down from the heavens into that book. No explanation - much less any evidence - has been provided to support the notion that anyone else matches the relevant criteria contained in the note and how/why it would end up in a book in the possession of the Oswalds. It just could be so because Dishonest John doesn't like the implications. Entertaining what is merely possible (even if wildly improbable and completely baseless) over what the facts and circumstances demonstrate is nearly certain. This is just the classic rabbit hole nonsense designed to go round and round. Nothing could ever be "proven" using that standard which is the entire purpose. Imagine suggesting that no logical inference can ever be drawn from such a note. And arguing it would need to be dated, signed, and reference the intent to murder Walker to be evidence relating to that crime. Wow. And, of course, if Oswald had left such a note our resident contrarian would argue that handwriting is not a science etc. And on and on into eternity.
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Quote from: Richard Smith on Today at 07:52:59 AM Another fast getaway by bus? :D These guys are hilarious!
At this late date....Is it possible to determine the owner of a Texas license plate number from 1963?
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Yeah...a crazy mixed up chick :-\ How about Oswald went to NOLA just to get away from her? Nah!
Jerry, I believe that you're handcuffing yourself to a flagpole with your negative bias toward Marina. Marina was a young woman in a foreign land with limited understanding of English, and she was frightened and intimidated by the police and FBI. She obviously was confused and misinformed and mislead by the authorities, whom she was desperately trying to placate by "cooperating " with them. You should open your eyes and see that it was the authorities who were manipulating Marina.... She wasn't creating lies on her own.... The lies she told were what the authorities wanted her to say....or she thought they wanted to hear.
But she wasn't lying about the Walker incident....However... she wasn't there at Walker's so she only knew what Lee told her about the incident. And since the Walker incident was a HOAX ( just as the investigating cops suspected) She only "knew" what Lee told her, and he told her that he had tried to kill Walker because that's what he hoped would appear in the newspapers where Castro's spies would read it and report back to Castro . Lee Oswald and George De Morenschildt had anticipated that Lee would be welcome in Cuba after Castro learned that Lee Oswald had tried to kill one of Castro's most vocal foes.
Lee had NOT tried to hit or kill Walker ( If Walker was actually in that room at the time) ...This should be obvious because the Carcano was / is a bolt action repeater and multiple shots can be fired in just a few seconds.... If Lee had intended to kill Walker ( who was center stage in the hoax, would have been an idiot to be in that room while bullets were being fired through the window) It would have been a simple matter to reload and fire again....
The fact that there was only one shot fired is a very strong indication that the shooting was a hoax.....
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But she wasn't lying about the Walker incident....
We just have her word for that. Review this.... http://iacoletti.org/jfk/marina-contradictions.pdf
About Marina being vulnerable and pushed around by the Feds...I heartily concur.
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Jerry, I believe that you're handcuffing yourself to a flagpole with your negative bias toward Marina. Marina was a young woman in a foreign land with limited understanding of English, and she was frightened and intimidated by the police and FBI. She obviously was confused and misinformed and mislead by the authorities, whom she was desperately trying to placate by "cooperating " with them. You should open your eyes and see that it was the authorities who were manipulating Marina.... She wasn't creating lies on her own.... The lies she told were what the authorities wanted her to say....or she thought they wanted to hear.
But she wasn't lying about the Walker incident....However... she wasn't there at Walker's so she only knew what Lee told her about the incident. And since the Walker incident was a HOAX ( just as the investigating cops suspected) She only "knew" what Lee told her, and he told her that he had tried to kill Walker because that's what he hoped would appear in the newspapers where Castro's spies would read it and report back to Castro . Lee Oswald and George De Morenschildt had anticipated that Lee would be welcome in Cuba after Castro learned that Lee Oswald had tried to kill one of Castro's most vocal foes.
Lee had NOT tried to hit or kill Walker ( If Walker was actually in that room at the time) ...This should be obvious because the Carcano was / is a bolt action repeater and multiple shots can be fired in just a few seconds.... If Lee had intended to kill Walker ( who was center stage in the hoax, would have been an idiot to be in that room while bullets were being fired through the window) It would have been a simple matter to reload and fire again....
The fact that there was only one shot fired is a very strong indication that the shooting was a hoax.....
Lee Oswald and George De Morenschildt had anticipated that Lee would be welcome in Cuba after Castro learned that Lee Oswald had tried to kill one of Castro's most vocal foes.
When we separate the Walker hoax from the coup d 'etate and look at the evidence of the purchase of the rifle we can see a picture forming regarding the Walker incident..... Back in January or February of 63.... DeMorhenschildt was planting ideas in Lee's head.
De M and Lee were discussing Walker who was on a speaking tour and making newspaper stories with his rants against the Kennedy's.
De M told Lee that Walker was a Nazi, and someone should take him out before he could rise to power or foment civil unrest.. De M suggested that if someone had killed Hitler in 1932 the world would never have have suffered WWII, and the extermination of over six million Jews. Lee thought that De M was right, and Lee agreed with him. Whether De M was serious or just planting ideas in Lee's head we'll never know. However once the seed was planted a plot began to form and George and Lee started making plans to attack Walker. ( I've often wondered if Bobby Kennedy was paying De M and had told De M that he was sick and tired and fed up with Walker's constant attacks on his brother, Jack, and his father Joe Kennedy ... And perhaps someone should throw a scare into big mouth Walker by taking a shot at him. Knowing what we now know, it's entirely possible that this could have happened ) At any rate it was in February that De M started the ball rolling by suggesting that Walker might be an asset for Lee in his quest to penetrate Castro's Cuba, just as he had penetrated the Iron Curtain by pretending to be a disgruntled Marine.
De M encouraged Lee to start creating a false dossier in which he would appear to be a communist in support of Castro...
They ordered a cheap unusual old relic rifle to be used as a photo prop and a throw down gun, through a popular mail order house so it could be easily traced after it was used at the Walker residence. And Lee had Marina take his photo with the rifle. He also took photos of Walker's house and the surrounding area. He compiled a dossier that if discovered by the police after the shot through Walker's window would appear to be a plan of attack on Walker. ( At least that's what Lee thought. although George was probably
wise enough to see that a smart cop would see that the dossier was a pile of BS, but Lee wasn't smart enough to understand that a smart cop would never fall for the BS. )
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It's astounding that anyone would argue that a note written in Russian, found in a book belonging to the Oswalds that references military papers, a PO box, a baby, and paying rent could have been written by someone other than a member of the Oswald household. A great example of the attempted application of the impossible standard of proof to conjure up fake doubt. Who could this mystery person have been who left such a note in a book belonging to the Oswalds? We are left to ponder as no explanation is forthcoming.
This is a classic argument from ignorance. You can’t imagine how it could have been written by anybody else, therefore is was written by Lee Oswald. No evidence necessary.
You can’t imagine how an unsigned, undated note in Russian that doesn’t mention Walker or shooting could be about anything other than shooting Walker, therefore it was about shooting Walker. No evidence necessary.
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We just have her word for that. Review this.... http://iacoletti.org/jfk/marina-contradictions.pdf
About Marina being vulnerable and pushed around by the Feds...I heartily concur.
Yep. And that’s also why the “Marina said so” arguments put forward by “Richard” fall flat.
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We just have her word for that. Review this.... http://iacoletti.org/jfk/marina-contradictions.pdf
About Marina being vulnerable and pushed around by the Feds...I heartily concur.
What is the evidence that Marina was "pushed around by the Feds"?
I'll cite this from the 1/11/1964 New York Times: "Oswald's Widow Rebuffs Liberties Union"
DALLAS, Jan. 10—Mrs. Lee H. Oswald has written to the Dallas Civil Liberties Union that she is satisfied with her seclusion and with the protection of the Secret Service.
The letter was in response to a question by the Dallas Civil Liberties Union about Marina's situation.
Marina went on: "Let me thank you," the note began, "for the attention you are giving me. I don't think you have anything to worry about. What you read in the newspapers — everything is correct. I don't object to the Secret Service guarding me. I am only grateful for their time."
"I am free to go where I want and see whom I please. I myself don't want to see anybody to remind me of what has happened. I hope you understand."
The full story is here: https://www.nytimes.com/1964/01/11/archives/oswalds-widow-bars-interview-note-to-civil-liberties-union-says-fbi.html
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Interesting that the little prick didn't leave his ring behind on his fascist-hunter night out. Or a note on his personal TGIF big-game hunting-spree daytrip in Dealey & environs.
Slur away...how fascist can we get? :D OK why didn't Oswald shoot his boss then? That question isn't for Chapman really. He doesn't have answers to any.
Many of Oswald's bosses [that we know of] were fascists.** Does anyone think that Roy Truly was a marcher for civil rights? I don't know what some of the people's here particular nationalities are but apparently know nothing about deep south politics of the '50s and early '60s.
Oswald wound up going to work for one of the most prominent 'fascists' in New Orleans...William B Reily Jr.--- Reily's biggest coffee customer was the United States Army.
As a coincidence...Carlos Marcello owned vast tomato plantations in Louisiana. His biggest customer?....The US Army. This was courtesy of H L Hunt.
Ever hear of Hunt's tomatoes? Ketchup...stewed...diced anyone? All of them were good buddies with Huey Long, Gov of La.
Oswald was hired by Reily's with no background check or references....recommended by unknown persons.
**A claim [from someone] was made that he worked for Jackson Brewers for about 1 1/2 months prior to Reilly.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=47745#relPageId=79
Years later..the HSCA reported events in New Orleans concerning 544 Camp St/531 Lafayette St. Needless to say, by then, nobody remembered anything ::)
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1212#relPageId=127&tab=page
After the Garrison inquiry and researcher's books they had to do something [a token report if anything]
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DALLAS, Jan. 10—Mrs. Lee H. Oswald has written to the Dallas Civil Liberties Union that she is satisfied with her seclusion and with the protection of the Secret Service.
Was it in Russian? :D
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DALLAS, Jan. 10—Mrs. Lee H. Oswald has written to the Dallas Civil Liberties Union that she is satisfied with her seclusion and with the protection of the Secret Service.
Isn’t that a lot like Zelensky saying that he didn’t feel pressured?
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Isn’t that a lot like Zelensky saying that he didn’t feel pressured?
Marina was given a PR guy who was essentially an asset for the government agencies.
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Marina was given a PR guy who was essentially an asset for the government agencies.
Marina spent months at a New Mexico ranch...Secluded with Pricilla Mc Millan Johnson, a CIA agent. Johnson was prepping her for her appearance before LBJ's Cover up committee ..... The WC
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Get into some real discussion... Hint-- 544 Camp St :-\
The real story is just as interesting as a conspiracy.
Oswald was desperately trying to start a Fair Play for Cuba Committee chapter in New Orleans. He did, with one member, himself. The first few times he handed out pamphlets they had his home or PO box address on them.
Then he met anti Castro Carlos Bringuier of the Cuban Revolutionary Council. He tried to infiltrate that group. Oswald never rented that address. However Carlos Bringuier had done. Oswald knew this and put that address on the pamphlets on a day that he had invited the local news to come round and film him handing them out on Canal St, around the corner from where Bringuiers brother worked. The reporter had covered him doing this before and Oswald told him he would invite him back when he was handing them out again.
Clearly a well laid trap for Bringuier to confront Oswald (which he did) and they all got chucked in jail. Oswald had the choice to pay a $25 fine and leave or to stay in jail. He chose to stay in jail. The questioning officer later said it looked like Oswald had set Bringuier up. Hence the later appearances of "it was staged" in conspiracy books. It was staged. By Oswald. This was all done to prove to the Fair Play For Cuba HQ in New York that he was worthy and legit. A "street agitator".
Also, regarding the backyward photos, Oswald signed one of them. How was that faked?
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The real story is just as interesting as a conspiracy.
Oswald was desperately trying to start a Fair Play for Cuba Committee chapter in New Orleans. He did, with one member, himself. The first few times he handed out pamphlets they had his home or PO box address on them.
Then he met anti Castro Carlos Bringuier of the Cuban Revolutionary Council. He tried to infiltrate that group. Oswald never rented that address. However Carlos Bringuier had done. Oswald knew this and put that address on the pamphlets on a day that he had invited the local news to come round and film him handing them out on Canal St, around the corner from where Bringuiers brother worked. The reporter had covered him doing this before and Oswald told him he would invite him back when he was handing them out again.
Clearly a well laid trap for Bringuier to confront Oswald (which he did) and they all got chucked in jail. Oswald had the choice to pay a $25 fine and leave or to stay in jail. He chose to stay in jail. The questioning officer later said it looked like Oswald had set Bringuier up. Hence the later appearances of "it was staged" in conspiracy books. It was staged. By Oswald. This was all done to prove to the Fair Play For Cuba HQ in New York that he was worthy and legit. A "street agitator".
Also, regarding the backyward photos, Oswald signed one of them. How was that faked?
Oswald was desperately trying to start a Fair Play for Cuba Committee chapter in New Orleans.
Yes, indeed he was.... He was attempting to create an illusion that he was supporter of Castro.
What Did Lee do after he was arrested for "disturbing the peace" for his verbal bout with Carlos Bringuier ? He declined to pay the fine and chose to remain in jail , and requested that an FBI agent come to the jail.
I ask you .... Would a true commie and a Castro supporter request conference with an FBI agent? ???
Lee learned something that he thought the FBI should be made aware of.....And that's why he chose to remain in jail and request that an FBI agent come and talk to him.
Do you know what Lee discovered and wanted the FBI to know???
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Oswald was desperately trying to start a Fair Play for Cuba Committee chapter in New Orleans.
Yes, indeed he was.... He was attempting to create an illusion that he was supporter of Castro.
What Did Lee do after he was arrested for "disturbing the peace" for his verbal bout with Carlos Bringuier ? He declined to pay the fine and chose to remain in jail , and requested that an FBI agent come to the jail.
I ask you .... Would a true commie and a Castro supporter request conference with an FBI agent? ???
Lee learned something that he thought the FBI should be made aware of.....And that's why he chose to remain in jail and request that an FBI agent come and talk to him.
Do you know what Lee discovered and wanted the FBI to know???
No, what did he learn?
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No, what did he learn?
What was the reason that Lee hastily departed Dallas for New Orleans ? Do you believe he couldn't have found an unskilled labor job in Dallas ?
Who told him to go to New Orleans and for what reason?
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What was the reason that Lee hastily departed Dallas for New Orleans ? Do you believe he couldn't have found an unskilled labor job in Dallas ?
Who told him to go to New Orleans and for what reason?
No one told him to go there to my knowledge.
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No one told him to go there to my knowledge.
"No one told him to go there to my knowledge."
The key words are ...." to my knowledge".
Can you use common sense and reasoning? Do you think that there wasn't plenty of unskilled labor jobs available in Dallas?
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Do you think that there wasn't plenty of unskilled labor jobs available in Dallas?
According to Ruth Paine...it was Marina's idea for Oswald to return to his birthplace...but it was decided at the last minute that Marina would not accompany him.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=38&search=ruth_paine+testimony#relPageId=466&tab=page
Going back to the previous page of that testimony--Mrs Paine discusses a picnic that they had. She doesn't say which lake..but that it was a lake nearby the Neely St house.
The only lake close by would be or must have been Lake Cliff. She said that Oswald went fishing apparently ignoring everyone else.
There may be or have been some perch in this small area lake but where did Oswald obtain a fishing pole and gear? Fishing equipment was not claimed to have been found in the items searched at the Paine house or ever in possession of the Oswalds or the Paines. She also stated that Oswald caught a fish and expected someone else to clean and cook it.
Paine further testified that Oswald had packed all of his stuff for the venture to New Orleans.
Isn't it usual for someone to just pack an AWOL bag...go find work and a place to live and then come get their belongings?
To hear Mrs Paine's statements...you would think that she was just his taxi everywhere--and asked no questions.
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According to Ruth Paine...it was Marina's idea for Oswald to return to his birthplace...but it was decided at the last minute that Marina would not accompany him.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=38&search=ruth_paine+testimony#relPageId=466&tab=page
Going back to the previous page of that testimony--Mrs Paine discusses a picnic that they had. She doesn't say which lake..but that it was a lake nearby the Neely St house.
The only lake close by would be or must have been Lake Cliff. She said that Oswald went fishing apparently ignoring everyone else.
There may be or have been some perch in this small area lake but where did Oswald obtain a fishing pole and gear? Fishing equipment was not claimed to have been found in the items searched at the Paine house or ever in possession of the Oswalds or the Paines. She also stated that Oswald caught a fish and expected someone else to clean and cook it.
Paine further testified that Oswald had packed all of his stuff for the venture to New Orleans.
Isn't it usual for someone to just pack an AWOL bag...go find work and a place to live and then come get their belongings?
To hear Mrs Paine's statements...you would think that she was just his taxi everywhere--and asked no questions.
According to Ruth Paine...it was Marina's idea for Oswald to return to his birthplace...but it was decided at the last minute that Marina would not accompany him.
According to Ruth "Pinochio" Paine??.... Ruth Paine's entire life has been one big lie. There's something wrong with her brain. I have read " Mrs Paine's Garage" and have gained very little insight about why she did many of the things she did. There's no doubt that she lied about many aspects of her relationship with the Oswald's . Just one example;.... The Letter to the Russian Embassy. There is not a shred of doubt that she was spying on Lee Oswald when she furtively read the letter and copied it and then called FBI agent Hosty and gave him a copy of the letter.
Does anybody believe that a "good Quaker woman" would take it upon herself and of her own volition spy on the Oswald's and report to the FBI ??
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I have read " Mrs Paine's Garage"
Did it mention anything about a fishing rod and reel?
BTW is that from the same Thomas Mallon that wrote "Watergate"?
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At this late date....Is it possible to determine the owner of a Texas license plate number from 1963?
Probably not. What license plate?
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Probably not. What license plate?
In one of the photos of the rear of Walker's house there is a 1953 Ford in the place where the 57 Chevy with the hole in the deck lid is parked in the famous photo. The license plate is visible on the FORD. Davis Ferrie had a 53 Ford that he kept just to loan to "friends".
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"No one told him to go there to my knowledge."
The key words are ...." to my knowledge".
Can you use common sense and reasoning? Do you think that there wasn't plenty of unskilled labor jobs available in Dallas?
Of course but he was miserable in Dallas and he had tried to kill Walker. Marina wanted him out of that city.
I really don't understand how people believe he was sent to New Orelans by the FBI, CIA or whoever as a pre assassination setup. Who would be happy with him down there? Getting arrested, on radio, on TV, "agitating" etc. Makes no sense at all.
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Of course but he was miserable in Dallas and he had tried to kill Walker. Marina wanted him out of that city.
I really don't understand how people believe he was sent to New Orelans by the FBI, CIA or whoever as a pre assassination setup.
I don't believe anyone has ever said that.
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You have gone beyond fiction here to science fiction. But try to focus. You allege that the plan was to link Oswald to the Walker attempt in order for him to gain entry to Cuba as a spy. Or something along those lines. But no evidence is left at the crime scene for the authorities to link Oswald to the crime - the entire purpose of this alleged hoax. Why wouldn't they leave something or somehow put the authorities onto Oswald as a suspect if that was the entire purpose of this plot? It wouldn't be very difficult. CTers certainly believe they organized an elaborate frame up of Oswald to link him to the JFK assassination but here there not so much. And when the trail grows cold they do nothing. Do you see the obvious fallacy in suggesting that the entire purpose of the Walker attempt was to link it to Oswald but then planting no evidence to do so?
no evidence is left at the crime scene for the authorities to link Oswald to the crime
Obviously you're ignorant of the FACT that Lee left the very unusual rifle near Walker's in hope that the police dogs would find it and trace the easily traceable rifle to his PO box.
Lee left the cheap old Carcano under some brush with the idea that the police would find it ..... Your ignorance of the facts is exposed once again.
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Marina said a lot of things that were inaccurate or inconsistent. Like the Nixon thing.
That was not “ in his possession”, it was in the Paine’s garage. How do you know that was his?
You mean the unsigned, undated note in Russian that doesn’t mention Walker or shooting?
This is just empty rhetoric. Just because you want the note to be about shooting Walker doesn’t make it so.
That was not “ in his possession”, it was in the Paine’s garage. How do you know that was his?
The photo of Walker's house was photographed among Lee's possessions at the Dallas police station on the evening of 11/22/63 . It's highly unlikely the photo was planted, because the police didn't even realize the significance of the photo..... It was simply the picture of a house with a car in the drive...
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no evidence is left at the crime scene for the authorities to link Oswald to the crime
Obviously you're ignorant of the FACT that Lee left the very unusual rifle near Walker's in hope that the police dogs would find it and trace the easily traceable rifle to his PO box.
Lee left the cheap old Carcano under some brush with the idea that the police would find it ..... Your ignorance of the facts is exposed once again.
That’s not a “fact”, it’s a Walt fabrication.
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That was not “ in his possession”, it was in the Paine’s garage. How do you know that was his?
The photo of Walker's house was photographed among Lee's possessions at the Dallas police station on the evening of 11/22/63 . It's highly unlikely the photo was planted, because the police didn't even realize the significance of the photo..... It was simply the picture of a house with a car in the drive...
Just because some items were recovered from the Paine garage and could be incriminating doesn’t automatically mean they belonged to Oswald.
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Of course but he was miserable in Dallas and he had tried to kill Walker. Marina wanted him out of that city.
I really don't understand how people believe he was sent to New Orelans by the FBI, CIA or whoever as a pre assassination setup. Who would be happy with him down there? Getting arrested, on radio, on TV, "agitating" etc. Makes no sense at all.
as a pre assassination setup.
Lee wasn't sent as a pre-assassination set up..... The coup d ' etate wasn't being seriously plotted in May of 1963.
Lee went to New Orleans to see if he could learn who was supplying the Cuban "Freedom Fighters" with the money, boats and guns to attack Cuba from bases in La.
It didn't take Lee long to learn that "EX" FBI agent Guy Bannister ( actually one of Hoover's EXTRA Special agents ) was the man running the illegal raids on Cuba.
JFK was mad as hell because those idiots who were attacking Cuba and the Russian ships in Cuba were creating a nightmare in his efforts to defuse the nuclear threat from the missiles in Cuba. Lee had been successful in his mission to Russia, and was being utilized again in an effort to curtail the illegal training and arming of
Cuban refugees.
In July JFK ordered the ATF to raid the training camps and arrest everybody at the camps..... Then just before the raid JFK called Hoover and told him about the raid and ordered Hoover to send FBI agents in support of the ATF. Naturally this infuriated J. Edgar Hoover, because he was supporting the training of the Cubans, and he didn't want to be forced into supporting the ATF. The raid netted several CIA operatives and many Cubans plus guns, and bomb making materials.
It didn't take Hoover long, to figger out that Lee was the snitch who had provided the info that allowed JFK to raid the illegal training camp.
That was the trip point in setting the murder of JFK into action.... Hoover thought it was great that he could set the little commie snitch (LHO) up as JFK's assassin....
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What was the reason that Lee hastily departed Dallas for New Orleans ? Do you believe he couldn't have found an unskilled labor job in Dallas ?
Who told him to go to New Orleans and for what reason?
Evil, evil, evil James Angleton, through GPH or ... ? ? ?
-- MWT :D
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no evidence is left at the crime scene for the authorities to link Oswald to the crime
Obviously you're ignorant of the FACT that Lee left the very unusual rifle near Walker's in hope that the police dogs would find it and trace the easily traceable rifle to his PO box.
Lee left the cheap old Carcano under some brush with the idea that the police would find it ..... Your ignorance of the facts is exposed once again.
How do you know where he left it? Wherever that was it apparently wasn't too obvious since the police never found it. And you think the conspirators would just give up at that point instead of providing the DPD with a tip like "there is this nutty commie you might want to check out"? Instead they just give up. That was quite a plan. Lucky for them that it didn't work or your hero Oswald would have been in Cuba in this fantasy scenario and not available to frame for the JFK assassination.
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New Orleans. The topic is Oswald in New Orleans. Can we stop all the off topic spookulation?
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New Orleans. The topic is Oswald in New Orleans. Can we stop all the off topic spookulation?
The Walker hoax is part of LHO in New Orleans .... The Hoax is one of the reasons he went to N.O.
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In one of the photos of the rear of Walker's house there is a 1953 Ford in the place where the 57 Chevy with the hole in the deck lid is parked in the famous photo. The license plate is visible on the FORD. Davis Ferrie had a 53 Ford that he kept just to loan to "friends".
Is this the photo you're talking about? I can't make out the license plate number.
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/walker-car.jpg)
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Is this the photo you're talking about? I can't make out the license plate number.
(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/walker-car.jpg)
Yes, that's the photo of the 53 Ford in Walker's parking area. I believe it's been cropped so the License plate isn't complete..... If that photo is in the archives, perhaps a photo expert could enlarge it and read the plate number. ( it doesn't appear to be a Texas Plate.)... Yes ...it's a very long shot...but who knows?
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On April 24, 1963...Oswald arrived in NO by bus with a ticket purchased in his own name [some secret get-a-way huh?]
It was a Wednesday evening...no one knows where he stayed through the following week.
He had phoned his aunt Lillian asking to vouch for him staying with her but he did not actually show up until the 29th. So...where did he stay?
Oswald supposedly had taken a rifle to NO but where was it? Oh...Oh I know [say the Leedidits]...he must have stored it at the bus station. ::)
Mr. JENNER - But you don't remember seeing any package, any oblong package, out in the garage among those things that Lee had brought in there?
Mrs. MURRET - No; I didn't.
Mr. JENNER - Would you have any conception of what a rifle would look like when it is disassembled, what the barrel separated from the stock looked like, and so forth?
Mrs. MURRET - No; I'm afraid I don't know anything about rifles.
Mr. JENNER - Was there any discussion of a rifle at any time in your presence?
Mrs. MURRET - No.
Mr. JENNER - No discussion about anything like that by anybody?
Mrs. MURRET - No.
Mr. JENNER - Did you ever see a rifle around in the garage where this stuff was stored?
Mrs. MURRET - No; I never did.
Mr. JENNER - Did you ever see a package out there that looked like it might contain a rifle?
Mrs. MURRET - No; I never did see one around there.
Mr. JENNER - You never saw anything that looked like a rifle or shotgun at all among his belongings that he had put in the garage in the corner?
Mrs. MURRET - No; but I didn't really pay too much attention to all that stuff. The only thing I remember him ever taking out of there was these boots and this hat.
Jenner didn't seem to know the meaning of asked and answered.
Mrs Murret revealed that Marina knew more English than she had led everyone to believe....
Mrs. MURRET - That's what he said. He said, "I'm used to that." He said, "I give talks all the time." I asked Marina later on one day if she would like to attend mass the next morning with me, and she said yes, she would, and she asked Lee about it, so they were talking it over in Russian, so I don't know what they were saying.
Mr. JENNER - Did she go with you to mass the next morning?
Mrs. MURRET - Yes; she did.
Mr. JENNER - Did she say she liked it, or what did she say?
Mrs. MURRET - Yes; she said, "I like your church very much."
Mr. JENNER - Marina said that?
Mrs. MURRET - Yes; I said, "Marina, I'm sorry you don't live near me; we could go to church together," and I said to her, "I wish you would become a Catholic."
Mr. JENNER - Marina could converse to some extent in English, could she not? She could communicate with you to some extent, couldn't she?
Mrs. MURRET - Yes; I could make her understand most things, you know, about what I was talking about. Now, another thing, Lee didn't want the baby to be baptized.
Mr. JENNER - Who didn't?
Mrs. MURRET - Lee. He told me that the baby was baptized, but in the orthodox religion, and he wanted the baby to be baptized in the Lutheran religion. Marina wanted the baby to be baptized in the Orthodox Church, and she went ahead and did it, and I think that's something he probably resented--not the baptism itself but the church...........
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The question was: Why did LHO go to New Orleans? Whether or not Nixon was actually there isn’t relevant to the question. Marina apparently believed what she said LHO told her. And this was a contributing factor in the decision to go to New Orleans.
So....Oswald went to New Orleans because he thought Nixon was coming to Dallas? :-\
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Lee Harvey Oswald became employed by William B. Reily Company, Inc. as a greaser and oiler maintenance man on May 10, 1963. His employment terminated on July 19, 1963.
There were occasions from time to time when I was unable to locate Oswald in and about the premises and learned that he was in the habit of absenting himself from the premises without leave and visiting a service station establishment adjacent to the Reily Coffee Company known as Alba's Crescent City Garage. Furthermore, Oswald had become quite indifferent to the performance of his duties.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/barbe.htm
Why was Oswald so interested in the activities of Alba's Garage?
I can't find very much research into this facet of Oswald history.
Mr Alba passed away in 2016.... https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/190546514/adrian-thomas-alba
A bit of fake info in that obituary ..... Oswald regularly spent his lunch hour and breaks at the garage chatting with Alba and reading gun magazines lying about in the small lobby area; and it was from one of those magazines that Oswald allegedly ordered the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle he allegedly used to later assassinate President Kennedy.
At least it said 'allegedly'.
If Oswald merely spent his lunch breaks at the garage...why would that get him fired?
Supposedly...Oswald had already received the weapon that previous March before he ever went to New Orleans ::)
Alba gave an interview in the '70s stating that he saw Oswald regularly accepting white envelopes from G-men in what he knew to be FBI company cars as they entered or exited his garage. Alba recalled watching Oswald approach an FBI car outside the garage and receive a white envelope that was handed to him through a cracked window before concealing it under his shirt. Alba later said Oswald "met the car again a couple of days later and talked briefly with the driver," whom, as detailed in "JFK and the Unspeakable..." Alba knew as an "FBI agent visiting New Orleans from Washington." He further stated that he did not know the content of the envelopes. He explained to his interviewer that he had refused previous interviews or photos, even for money, because he was worried about the safety of his family. He refused to be filmed for the interview.
From the Warren Report------
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever become acquainted with or observe in your garage Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. ALBA - Through conversations and Outdoor Life magazines in the office I have a coffee pot there, and a coffee table, and some chairs, and a magazine rack, where he frequent the magazines quite often and drank coffee. And I have a coke machine there.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did this fellow, did you tell us what his name was?
Mr. ALBA - All I knew him was as "Lee."
Mr. LIEBELER - I understand that you are a gun enthusiast, is that correct?
Mr. ALBA - That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER - And that you kept in your office in the garage various magazines relating to outdoor life and guns?
Mr. ALBA - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Oswald ever discuss guns with you?
Mr. ALBA - Yes, he did.
Mr. LIEBELER - Can you tell us what he said, and what you said on the subject?
Mr. ALBA - He pursued the issue of ordering guns, and how many guns had I ever ordered, and how long did it take to get them, and where had I ordered guns from----
Mr. LIEBELER - Go ahead. What did you tell him? Just tell us the conversation that you had with him.
Mr. ALBA - I told him that I had a gun on' order at the present time, a U.S. .3 caliber carbine, and he asked had I received the gun, on several occasions, after that. "I told him no at I hadn't. And he ask me Would I consider selling him the gun and when I got it. I told him no.
Mr. LIEBELER - Was there anything peculiar about this particular rifle that made Oswald want it? Or why did he want you to sell this rifle? Do you know?
Mr. ALBA - He told me he had a couple of guns, and he would like to have the carbine. He was familiar with the carbine from the service, I believe.
Mr. LIEBELER - And this was the regular M-1 carbine?
Mr. ALBA - Regular M-1 carbine, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - From whom had you ordered that carbine? Do you recall?
Mr. ALBA - Through the National Rifle Association.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Oswald indicate to you what other kind of rifle or weapons that he had?
Mr. ALBA - No; he didn't. He did make a remark that he had--I think he said he had several rifles and, several pistols, but he did not go into the nature of the arms, or how much, or what they were.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did he ever express any interest in any rifle that you indicated that you had, other than this M-1 carbine that you told him you had order?
Mr. ALBA - One 30.06 Springfield rifle that I had.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have that?
Mr. ALBA - I was in the process of sporterizing that at the garage at the time----
Mr. LIEBELER - What did he say about that particular weapon?
Mr. ALBA - He said what was it worth to me, and I told him it was worth over $100 to me. There was no followup on that.
Mr. LIEBELER - Was this particular rifle that you have referred to, a Japanese rifle?
Mr. ALBA - No it wasn't. I had a Japanese rifle down there that was not for sale, an he was more partial to the Japanese rifle than the Springfield and the carbine put together.
Mr. LIEBELER - He was really interested----
Mr. ALBA - He was more interested in the Japanese rifle.
Supposedly...Oswald had a rifle that he supposedly shot into the Walker house.
Why is he saying that he has a virtual arsenal?
Mr. LIEBELER - What is the effect of cutting the barrel?
Mr. ALBA - On the accuracy of a rifle; none. [is that really true?]
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you tell Oswald that?
Mr. LIEBELER - Did he seem surprised?
Mr. LIEBELER - The Japanese rifle that you said you had completely sporterized, can you tell us approximately how long that weapon would be when it is put together?
Mr. ALBA - Prior to sporterizing or after sporterizing?
Mr. LIEBELER - Both?
Mr. ALBA - I took approximately 4 to 4 1/2 inches off of the barrel, and I think it was left with a 22 1/2-inch barrel, and it had approximately a 2 or a inch barrel to start off with.
Mr. LIEBELER - When you fasten the barrel to the stock, can you tell us approximately how long that rifle would be?
Mr. ALBA - I can take a guess--I never really measured it, or any of my pieces, for that matter, but I would say approximately 55 inches.
55 inches? My ...that is still quite long is it not?
Why was Oswald pumping Alba for information about obtaining rifles?
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as a pre assassination setup.
Lee wasn't sent as a pre-assassination set up..... The coup d ' etate wasn't being seriously plotted in May of 1963.
Lee went to New Orleans to see if he could learn who was supplying the Cuban "Freedom Fighters" with the money, boats and guns to attack Cuba from bases in La.
It didn't take Lee long to learn that "EX" FBI agent Guy Bannister ( actually one of Hoover's EXTRA Special agents ) was the man running the illegal raids on Cuba.
JFK was mad as hell because those idiots who were attacking Cuba and the Russian ships in Cuba were creating a nightmare in his efforts to defuse the nuclear threat from the missiles in Cuba. Lee had been successful in his mission to Russia, and was being utilized again in an effort to curtail the illegal training and arming of
Cuban refugees.
In July JFK ordered the ATF to raid the training camps and arrest everybody at the camps..... Then just before the raid JFK called Hoover and told him about the raid and ordered Hoover to send FBI agents in support of the ATF. Naturally this infuriated J. Edgar Hoover, because he was supporting the training of the Cubans, and he didn't want to be forced into supporting the ATF. The raid netted several CIA operatives and many Cubans plus guns, and bomb making materials.
It didn't take Hoover long, to figger out that Lee was the snitch who had provided the info that allowed JFK to raid the illegal training camp.
That was the trip point in setting the murder of JFK into action.... Hoover thought it was great that he could set the little commie snitch (LHO) up as JFK's assassin....
Not a bad theory, if a little far fetched. Not a shred of evidence for it though unfortunately.
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The coup d ' etate wasn't being seriously plotted in May of 1963.
I believe there was/existed the hatching of a plot to remove Kennedy right after the failed invasion of Cuba.
Synopsis of Assassination Attempt Against JFK, May 18, 1963, in Nashville TN
A few years ago I began looking into other assassination sites as well as other potential assassins and potential patsies. I was able to track a potential JFK assassin to the general area (Knoxville, TN) of a planned JFK motorcade in May of 1963. The trip was altered prior to the actual day of the trip and JFK instead made a visit to Nashville, TN. His visit, on May 18, 1963, included several motorcades.
In early 1992 I was shocked to see a tabloid print a story about an assassination attempt against JFK during the Nashville trip! Congressman Bob Clement of Tennessee had made a startling revelation. He said his father, the late Gov. Frank Clement (governor of Tennessee in 1963) told him of a strange incident while JFK awaited a helicopter after visiting the Governor. The tabloid quoted Congressman Bob Clement of Tennessee as stating, “While the President waited for the helicopter, a man approached with a gun hidden underneath a sack. Secret Service agents spotted him and grabbed him”.
I called and interviewed the congressman in the early summer of 1963. I also obtained actual Nashville news stories about the congressman’s revelation in January of 1992. As a result of reading the news stories and talking to Congressman Clement, I have been able to piece together the following story:
President Kennedy arrived in Nashville on May 18, 1963. He rode in a motorcade to Vanderbilt University where he gave a speech outside in the football stadium. JFK left the stadium in another motorcade and drove to the governor’s mansion. Somewhere between the Governor’s mansion and the helicopter landing site at Overton High School, a man approached JFK with a handgun under a sack. It is unclear whether JFK was in his limousine or not at the time. The governor witnessed this event and the subsequent capture of the suspect by the Secret Service. The man was held at the High School for some time. Nothing more is known about the man. The Secret Service asked the governor to keep the event out of the press for fear it would lead to more assassination attempts.
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-three-failed-plots-to-kill-jfk-part-2