JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Jon Banks on December 06, 2019, 10:55:25 PM
-
“The Irishman”, a movie based on the life of Jimmy Hoffa associate, Frank Sheeran, is on Netflix and in theaters now.
Jimmy Hoffa and the mob bosses who associated with him have long been suspected of having a hand in JFK’s assassination. The film has a few subtle references to the Kennedy assassination.
- One scene shows Sheeran meeting David Ferrie and transporting weapons for the Bay of Pigs invasion
- In a later scene in the film someone says “if they can kill a President, they can kill the President of a Union”
The most compelling “Mafia did it” theory that I’ve seen involves Carlos Marcello.
A few years ago, Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert DeNiro were in talks to do a movie about Marcello based on Lamar Waldron and Thom Hartmann’s book, “Legacy of Secrecy”.
https://aboutthemafia.com/robert-deniro-set-to-play-new-orleans-mafia-boss-carlos-marcello-in-upcoming-movie
-
“The Irishman”, a movie based on the life of Jimmy Hoffa associate, Frank Sheeran, is on Netflix and in theaters now.
Jimmy Hoffa and the mob bosses who associated with him have long been suspected of having a hand in JFK’s assassination. The film has a few subtle references to the Kennedy assassination.
- One scene shows Sheeran meeting David Ferrie and transporting weapons for the Bay of Pigs invasion
- In a later scene in the film someone says “if they can kill a President, they can kill the President of a Union”
The most compelling “Mafia did it” theory that I’ve seen involves Carlos Marcello.
A few years ago, Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert DeNiro were in talks to do a movie about Marcello based on Lamar Waldron and Thom Hartmann’s book, “Legacy of Secrecy”.
https://aboutthemafia.com/robert-deniro-set-to-play-new-orleans-mafia-boss-carlos-marcello-in-upcoming-movie
I have read the book "I Hear You Paint Houses" which the movie "The Irishman" is based on. I also watched the movie. The book goes into more JFK Assassination connections than the movie does. I would guess that director Scorsese did Not want to encroach on Oliver Stone territory and also be subjected to the same BS that Stone endured due to his "JFK" movie. Hit Man Frank Sheeran who the movie is based on claimed in the book that he saw Jack Ruby numerous times in Chicago. He claimed Ruby was the #2 man in a union that was run by Mob Boss Sam Giancana. The story Sheeran heard was that the Dallas PD was supposed to Off Oswald, but for whatever reason failed to do so. With Oswald being transferred and the opportunity to kill Oswald rapidly disappearing, it fell on Ruby to accomplish the Hit. In the book Sheeran also claimed to have given a bag of rifles to David Ferrie. Sheeran thought based on what he felt inside the bag along with the weight of the bag, there was probably 3 rifles inside the bag. Sheeran later learned that the bag was being flown to Dallas by Ferrie for the JFK assassination. Sheeran also recounted receiving guns/ammo from Ferrie and then driving that arsenal down to a Florida race track. He personally handed everything off to E Howard Hunt to be used for the Bay Of Pigs invasion. Sheeran several times also delivered large sums of cash to Pres. Nixon's AG John Mitchell.
-
That's very interesting Royell. A book to be aware of. The Oliver Stone movie is now about 30 years old I'd guess. Maybe enough time has gone by but maybe that would have complicated the movie, "The Irishman".
-
That's very interesting Royell. A book to be aware of. The Oliver Stone movie is now about 30 years old I'd guess. Maybe enough time has gone by but maybe that would have complicated the movie, "The Irishman".
Sheeran tying Nixon to The Mob via dealing directly with E Howard Hunt and AG John Mitchell makes me think about the rumors of Nixon having flown out of Dallas early on 11/22/63.
-
“The Irishman”, a movie based on the life of Jimmy Hoffa associate, Frank Sheeran, is on Netflix and in theaters now.
Jimmy Hoffa and the mob bosses who associated with him have long been suspected of having a hand in JFK’s assassination. The film has a few subtle references to the Kennedy assassination.
- One scene shows Sheeran meeting David Ferrie and transporting weapons for the Bay of Pigs invasion
- In a later scene in the film someone says “if they can kill a President, they can kill the President of a Union”
The most compelling “Mafia did it” theory that I’ve seen involves Carlos Marcello.
A few years ago, Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert DeNiro were in talks to do a movie about Marcello based on Lamar Waldron and Thom Hartmann’s book, “Legacy of Secrecy”.
https://aboutthemafia.com/robert-deniro-set-to-play-new-orleans-mafia-boss-carlos-marcello-in-upcoming-movie
Looks interesting, did you read the book that the movie is based on (“I heard you paint houses”)?
-
I have read the book "I Hear You Paint Houses" which the movie "The Irishman" is based on. I also watched the movie. The book goes into more JFK Assassination connections than the movie does. I would guess that director Scorsese did Not want to encroach on Oliver Stone territory and also be subjected to the same BS that Stone endured due to his "JFK" movie. Hit Man Frank Sheeran who the movie is based on claimed in the book that he saw Jack Ruby numerous times in Chicago. He claimed Ruby was the #2 man in a union that was run by Mob Boss Sam Giancana. The story Sheeran heard was that the Dallas PD was supposed to Off Oswald, but for whatever reason failed to do so. With Oswald being transferred and the opportunity to kill Oswald rapidly disappearing, it fell on Ruby to accomplish the Hit. In the book Sheeran also claimed to have given a bag of rifles to David Ferrie. Sheeran thought based on what he felt inside the bag along with the weight of the bag, there was probably 3 rifles inside the bag. Sheeran later learned that the bag was being flown to Dallas by Ferrie for the JFK assassination. Sheeran also recounted receiving guns/ammo from Ferrie and then driving that arsenal down to a Florida race track. He personally handed everything off to E Howard Hunt to be used for the Bay Of Pigs invasion. Sheeran several times also delivered large sums of cash to Pres. Nixon's AG John Mitchell.
I too always figured Ruby killing Oswald was improvised. I don’t think Oswald getting arrested could’ve been part of anyone‘a original plan.
-
Bill Paxton was an eight year old in the crowd in Fort Worth to see JFK on the day Kennedy died. He became a successful actor and co-produced the movie "Parkland" based on the book "Four Days in November". He may have had other LN-type projects in mind but died mysteriously at age 61 in 2017, some days after open-heart surgery.
The "official" line was that Paxton had suffered rheumatic fever as a child, which damaged his heart. Still some wonder if he was silenced by rogue elements of the CT community.
-
That's very interesting Royell. A book to be aware of. The Oliver Stone movie is now about 30 years old I'd guess. Maybe enough time has gone by but maybe that would have complicated the movie, "The Irishman".
Also, at 3.5 hours, “The Irishman” is a bit too long. I’m glad they didn’t go on a long tangent into the Kennedy assassination.
I think a movie that focuses on Carlos Marcello and the Kennedy assassination would be more interesting way to dramatize the Mob theories.
-
Looks interesting, did you read the book that the movie is based on (“I heard you paint houses”)?
I haven’t read the book. I’m interested in reading it now.
-
Bill Paxton was an eight year old in the crowd in Fort Worth to see JFK on the day Kennedy died. He became a successful actor and co-produced the movie "Parkland" based on the book "Four Days in November". He may have had other LN-type projects in mind but died mysteriously at age 61 in 2017, some days after open-heart surgery.
The "official" line was that Paxton had suffered rheumatic fever as a child, which damaged his heart. Still some wonder if he was silenced by rogue elements of the CT community.
If that were true how did Bugliosi manage to hang around? Posner is still kicking. The above speculation makes a Dart Firing Umbrella sound pretty tame.
-
Bill Paxton was an eight year old in the crowd in Fort Worth to see JFK on the day Kennedy died. He became a successful actor and co-produced the movie "Parkland" based on the book "Four Days in November". He may have had other LN-type projects in mind but died mysteriously at age 61 in 2017, some days after open-heart surgery.
The "official" line was that Paxton had suffered rheumatic fever as a child, which damaged his heart. Still some wonder if he was silenced by rogue elements of the CT community.
Nice parody!
-
Also, at 3.5 hours, “The Irishman” is a bit too long. I’m glad they didn’t go on a long tangent into the Kennedy assassination.
I think a movie that focuses on Carlos Marcello and the Kennedy assassination would be more interesting way to dramatize the Mob theories.
The book also went into the extended time Sheeran was under fire in Europe during WW2. His avg time under fire was 8X higher than the avg Dog Face. This was attributed to his frame of mind when the war was over and his eventually becoming a hit man. I found this interesting though the movie did Not go into it. Per the book, Hoffa paid Nixon $400,000 for his pardon in "75". The last 30 minutes drug a little but the 1st 3 hours went by quickly.
-
If that were true how did Bugliosi manage to hang around? Posner is still kicking. The above speculation makes a Dart Firing Umbrella sound pretty tame.
I think he was being sarcastic.
-
I think he was being sarcastic.
Yes, it was a parody. And it made me chuckle...
-
If any of you view the flick, stick around until the lengthy credits have concluded. Following the credits there is a roughly 25 minute round table discussion between Scorsese, De Niro, Pesci, and Pacino regarding the film, the CGI age reduction, their character portrayals, etc. The interaction between them is also of interest. Pesci being the most Real person among the 4.
-
I watched the movie today and enjoyed it. One thing that shocked me more than a little was the flag at half-mast at the teamsters union headquarters in Washington DC after the JFK assassination (like the others all over the country and probably elsewhere). The movie shows Hoffa’s reaction as he noticed it. And Hoffa subsequently forcing his union employees to raise it to the top of the mast as a show disrespect to JFK.
Did this actually happen that way?
-
Possibly a good many did not feel good about the Kennedy Era. Victor Lasky's critical book "JFK: The Man & The Myth" topped the 1963 NY Times Bestseller List from October 6th to December 1st. It was back at No. 2 on December 22nd. It began 1964 sitting at No. 3 from January 5th to March 4th. On April 12th it was no longer on the Top Ten. By then, reprints of "Profiles in Courage" and "A Day in the Life of President Kennedy" were appearing on the chart, along with the UPI account "Four Days" (the top seller for the whole year).
-
I watched the movie today and enjoyed it. One thing that shocked me more than a little was the flag at half-mast at the teamsters union headquarters in Washington DC after the JFK assassination (like the others all over the country and probably elsewhere). The movie shows Hoffa’s reaction as he noticed it. And Hoffa subsequently forcing his union employees to raise it to the top of the mast as a show disrespect to JFK.
Did this actually happen that way?
Do Not know if the half mast routine really happened, but with AG Bobby Kennedy having created a "Get Hoffa Squad" inside the Justice Dept, Hoffa felt justified in any course of action he chose to take. Hoffa was also against the Mob Bosses cutting a deal with Joe Kennedy to secure Illinois for JFK in the "60" election. Once JFK failed to provide the air support for the Bay Of Pigs Invasion, and the Mafia then knew that they were Never going to get their Cuban casinos back/open as Joe Kennedy had promised, JFK was toast.
-
Do Not know if the half mast routine really happened, but with AG Bobby Kennedy having created a "Get Hoffa Squad" inside the Justice Dept, Hoffa felt justified in any course of action he chose to take. Hoffa was also against the Mob Bosses cutting a deal with Joe Kennedy to secure Illinois for JFK in the "60" election. Once JFK failed to provide the air support for the Bay Of Pigs Invasion, and the Mafia then knew that they were Never going to get their Cuban casinos back/open as Joe Kennedy had promised, JFK was toast.
Have you read the book? Does it claim that the half-mast routine is really true? Or was this just something that the Hollywood folks thought would make for good drama in the movie?
-
Have you read the book? Does it claim that the half-mast routine is really true? Or was this just something that the Hollywood folks thought would make for good drama in the movie?
I have read the book and do Not recall if the half-mast routine was included. It might have been a throw away line in the book and dramatized to a greater extent in the movie. Hoffa's hatred for AG Bobby Kennedy and his "Get Hoffa" squad makes the half-mast flag raising easy to accept as being fact. Per the book, Nixon pardoned Hoffa for a $400,000 "contribution" to the Nixon Re-Election Campaign. The cash was carried by Hit Man Sheeran and handed directly to Nixon's AG John Mitchell. Unknown to Hoffa at the time was the pardon also included the caveat that Hoffa could Not run for President of the Teamster's Union until 1980. I would guess that Nixon also got a kick back/$$$ from current Teamster Pres Frank Fitzsimmons for inclusion of that caveat. Raising a flag from half-mast is duck soup in comparison to what Hoffa wanted done to the prominent names on his lengthy enemies list.
-
There's a reference to the funeral, so it's being implied that Hoffa raised the flag before the funeral.
Maybe he had the flag raised back up late on the 25th, after the funeral. Or the following day. Maybe it was a decision out of Hoffa's hands.
According to an account from an official who was at the Teamsters Headquarters in DC, Hoffa in Miami on the 22nd complained that the flag had been lowered at the Headquarters. Could be that over time this evolved into Hoffa personally having something to do with it being raised back up. Some accounts have Hoffa ordering the flag not to be lowered and that it wasn't.
Took at the dramatic license the "JFK" movie took and how truth was distorted.
-
There's a reference to the funeral, so it's being implied that Hoffa raised the flag before the funeral.
Maybe he had the flag raised back up late on the 25th, after the funeral. Or the following day. Maybe it was a decision out of Hoffa's hands.
According to an account from an official who was at the Teamsters Headquarters in DC, Hoffa in Miami on the 22nd complained that the flag had been lowered at the Headquarters. Could be that over time this evolved into Hoffa personally having something to do with it being raised back up. Some accounts have Hoffa ordering the flag not to be lowered and that it wasn't.
Took at the dramatic license the "JFK" movie took and how truth was distorted.
'Truth distorted" in Stone's JFK? Be specific. No "JFK" = No ARRB
-
'Truth distorted" in Stone's JFK? Be specific. No "JFK" = No ARRB
Here: http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100menu.html (http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100menu.html). Chew on that. :D
-
Bill Paxton was an eight year old in the crowd in Fort Worth to see JFK on the day Kennedy died. He became a successful actor and co-produced the movie "Parkland" based on the book "Four Days in November". He may have had other LN-type projects in mind but died mysteriously at age 61 in 2017, some days after open-heart surgery.
The "official" line was that Paxton had suffered rheumatic fever as a child, which damaged his heart. Still some wonder if he was silenced by rogue elements of the CT community.
Some still wonder? Who are some of these people?
-
The is likely one of the most boring films I’ve seen in recent years. Surprised at Scorsese. Way to long. Pesci, DiNiro and Pacino are very average in their roles. Not in the same league as Goodfellas, Casino or The Departed as a mob movie.
-
I'm half-way through the movie and I liken it to Eastwood's "Unforgiven", a late-career classic.
Unusual to see a film these days with so many references to the challenges of aging, such as using the magnifying glass with the map and the retirement home. Scorsese is 77 and he's putting some of his own personal experiences on the screen. I'm glad the film doesn't have Marvel film editing or is as foul-mouthed as Pesci in "Casino".
Not sure what shape they're in today, but I would have preferred someone like Jack Nicholson (he starred in 1992's Hoffa) or Brian Dennehy as Hoffa.
-
I just put off seeing it for some time, finally saw it. It's quite a movie.
*SPOILERS*
So, sorry to resurrect this thread... while the movie was very persuasive....
In 2004, the Morning Call in Allentown, Pennsylvania reported that investigators looking into Hoffa’s disappearance had discovered traces of blood inside a home where Sheeran claimed he shot Hoffa. A prosecutor said the chemical tests were inconclusive, and the FBI was looking for Hoffa DNA.
The article reported that there were two confessions, including a purported deathbed confession in which Sheeran “said he flew to Pontiac on a small plane,” picked up Hoffa’s body from the actual killers and “drove it to a Hamtramck trash incinerator, where it was burned.”
Sheeran’s daughter claimed that confession was a forgery due to warring biographers, the article reported.
https://heavy.com/entertainment/2019/11/did-frank-sheeran-kill-jimmy-hoffa/
So, I've read in a few places that the DNA tests as said above, don't prove anything.
Did Frank Sheeran Kill Jimmy Hoffa?
Burnstein: "Frank Sheeran did not kill Jimmy Hoffa. He did not kill Joe Gallo, and he probably didn’t kill Salvatore (Sally Bugs) Briguglio.
I, from my research, am able to tie Sheeran to, I think, one murder. Other than that, I questioned his resume as a hitman. It’s all kind of pomp and circumstance. It’s what he says is murder. At first, I was able to entertain the idea that he had something to do with the conspiracy and it was just kind of holding back, and giving bits and pieces of it that suit him best. But the further I’ve dove in to, to the man that is Frank Sheeran, I’m convinced it’s all a giant hoax, and a scam and a con job. He’s a con man. And this is it.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/features/2019/12/02/fact-vs-myth-what-the-irishman-got-wrong-about-hoffa-story/
Just had to weigh in, Sheenan killed both Joey Gallo and Jimmy Hoffa?? That would be impressive if someone could claim that. I've got real doubts about doing both.
And the JFK part as said, was inconclusive but it was portrayed very well as far as when the news hit.
It's some great movie imho, one just has to be careful in what they believe. It's pretty unclear and it seems there is plenty of room for doubt.
-
Sheeran tying Nixon to The Mob via dealing directly with E Howard Hunt and AG John Mitchell makes me think about the rumors of Nixon having flown out of Dallas early on 11/22/63.
(https://i959.photobucket.com/albums/ae75/garcra/nixon.jpg)
-
Nice parody!
Paxton died of a stroke eleven days after surgery to repair a damaged heart valve and his aorta. How exactly is this mysterious?
-
Paxton died of a stroke eleven days after surgery to repair a damaged heart valve and his aorta. How exactly is this mysterious?
I think that you might have been trying to respond to the post that my parody comment was in response to.
-
Bill Paxton was an eight year old in the crowd in Fort Worth to see JFK on the day Kennedy died. He became a successful actor and co-produced the movie "Parkland" based on the book "Four Days in November". He may have had other LN-type projects in mind but died mysteriously at age 61 in 2017, some days after open-heart surgery. The "official" line was that Paxton had suffered rheumatic fever as a child, which damaged his heart. Still some wonder if he was silenced by rogue elements of the CT community.
The "official" line
Like there was an extensive investigation? Maybe Russia was involved :-\
Still some wonder if he was silenced by rogue elements of the CT community.
Who 'wonders' besides you?...& I thought all lone nut disbelievers were considered rogue.
These heretics should be burned at the stake huh?