JFK Assassination Forum

Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: Thomas Graves on December 01, 2019, 04:13:33 PM

Title: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Thomas Graves on December 01, 2019, 04:13:33 PM
Presidential historian Douglas Brinkley on Friday [11/29] predicted that public support for President Trump will collapse as House Democrats continue their impeachment inquiry against him.

"It just tells you what deep trouble Donald Trump is in. I mean, when you have 50 percent of the country wanting you not just impeached but removed from office, and the game hasn't even gotten fast yet," Brinkley said Friday morning on CNN, where he serves as a contributor. "I think once the vote is taken by Congress to impeach him and he's wearing the 'I' on his chest, you're going to see that movement grow even more," Brinkley predicted. He added of Trump, "It tells you he doesn't have a lot of friends. He's a base politician. He doesn't know how to turn this around." Brinkley noted the successful campaigns of politicians from opposing parties that came after previous presidents faced political fallout. "I think the Democrats might want to look at the way Jimmy Carter pulled off victory in 1976. He took the high road. He ran on saying, I will never tell a lie to you," Brinkley said. "He didn't have to say Nixon's lies or Lyndon Johnson's lies, just that I am clean, good governance coming your way if you vote for me." Polling on impeachment has fluctuated in the nine weeks since Democrats launched their probe. A Quinnipiac University poll released Tuesday found a slight shift in the president's direction on impeachment. That survey found 45 percent in favor of Trump's impeachment and removal, with 48 percent against it. That was a reversal from the poll's findings the previous month. However, a CNN poll conducted after the first week of public hearings in the inquiry found that 50 percent of Americans said Trump should be impeached and removed from office, while 43 percent said he should not be - the same margin from a poll conducted in October.

-- By Jessica Campisi @ The Hill  on 11/30/19

--   MWT   Walk:
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Tom Scully on December 03, 2019, 05:33:21 PM
Presidential historian Douglas Brinkley on Friday [11/29] predicted that public support for President Trump will collapse as House Democrats continue their impeachment inquiry against him.

"It just tells you what deep trouble Donald Trump is in. .....

--   MWT   Walk:

Earlier today, the bleater of the free world, on camera, on "foreign soil." "Prince Andrew? I don't know him."

Quote
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/a30104435/president-trump-prince-andrew-epstein-nato-summit-comments/
TownandCountrymag.com
President Trump Comments on the Royal Controversy Surrounding Prince Andrew
... sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, a man whom Trump associated with as well. ... going back to 2000, when the Duke of York visited Mar a Lago, Trump said he ... “I don't know Prince Andrew but it's a tough story, it's a very tough ...
1 hour ago

Three "musketeers," all in a line, all of them pervy, all of them liars....

Quote
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/30/prince-andrew-makes-defiant-appearance-photograph-shows-partying/
....
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2019/08/30/TELEMMGLPICT000207820564_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq8Asj1eHb3tSpQqwok7bWew_2zTAw3jNyFsrmT3RDi-w.jpeg?imwidth=1400)

Quote
https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/471156-billy-ray-cyrus-thanks-melania-trump-after-meeting-with-family

The Hill (blog)
Billy Ray Cyrus thanks Melania Trump after meeting with family of cyberbullying victim | TheHill
What an honor to sit w/The First Lady at the White House. ... Trump called Smith's death "tragic" and noted her work against cyberbullying in a Twitter post. ... last year, the first lady said the campaign would focus on well-being, ...
2 weeks ago

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1201563617180733440
(http://jfkforum.com/images/TrumpBleatLisaPage120219.jpg)

Deplorables (including 81 percent of self labeled evangelicals who voted in Nov., 2016) voted for and enthusiatically support the world's worst people....
Quote
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/02/trump-renews-attacks-fbi-lisa-page-074764
WHITE HOUSE

Trump renews attacks on ex-FBI lawyer Lisa Page

The latest broadside comes after Page gave an interview in which she accused the president of trying to "further destroy my life."
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Tom Scully on December 03, 2019, 08:30:29 PM
Quote
https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/12/03/the-republican-pre-buttal-spins-facts-presented-by-republican-witnesses-as-a-democratic-plot/
THE REPUBLICAN PRE-BUTTAL SPINS REPUBLICAN AND NON-PARTISAN FACTS AS A DEMOCRATIC PLOT
December 3, 2019/....by emptywheel

THE REPUBLICAN PRE-BUTTAL SPINS REPUBLICAN AND NON-PARTISAN FACTS AS A DEMOCRATIC PLOT
December 3, 2019/25 Comments/in 2016 Presidential Election, 2020 Presidential Election, emptywheel, Impeachment /by emptywheel
I’ll have a bit more to say about the Republican pre-buttal to the HPSCI Impeachment Report put out last night. But a good summary of the report looks like this:

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The report uses the word “Democrat” 226 times, all part of a ploy to suggest that facts presented in the impeachment hearing were a partisan plot.

It fails to acknowledge, however, that zero of the witnesses who testified were Democrats. ....
.......

..............

Quote
https://www.axios.com/devin-nunes-lev-parnas-rudy-giuliani-ukraine-a2193934-f4ae-48de-a3c9-8750a306812b.html
Zachary Basu  December 3, 2019
Call records show Devin Nunes in contact with indicted Giuliani associate

Call records included in an impeachment report released by House Democrats Tuesday show that House Intelligence Ranking Member Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) had a number of contacts in April with Rudy Giuliani and Lev Parnas, an associate of Giuliani's who has since been indicted for campaign finance violations.

Why it matters: The call records constitute some of the only new revelations from the report, which mostly relies on witness testimony that has been released to the public.

The big picture: The April contacts came in the midst of a smear campaign against former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch, which was led by Giuliani, Parnas and John Solomon, a Trump-friendly journalist who formerly wrote for The Hill.

The Daily Beast has reported that Parnas, who helped introduce Giuliani to Ukrainian officials in his quest to dig up dirt on Trump's rivals, also helped arrange meetings for Nunes in 2018, when the top Republican was investigating the origins of the Mueller investigation.
Nunes has dismissed the entire impeachment inquiry as a hoax and part of a continued effort by Democrats to take down President Trump. He is likely to face new scrutiny about his involvement with key players at the center of the inquiry......
....
(https://images.axios.com/gPDoQYWEMB5fUA-OufSWKmNR-BY=/2019/12/03/1575402099635.png)
...........
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Rick Plant on December 05, 2019, 05:27:25 AM
Republicans are complicit in protecting and covering up for a criminal. Could you imagine if this was a Democrat? The GOP would have already impeached him.   
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Chris Davidson on December 05, 2019, 10:36:50 PM
It's understandable people have trouble admitting they are bad judges of character, but it's well past that point.
Enough said:
https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf (https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf)
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Tim Nickerson on December 06, 2019, 12:54:03 AM
It's understandable people have trouble admitting they are bad judges of character, but it's well past that point.
Enough said:
https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf (https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Lawsuit.pdf)

NOTICE OF VOLUNTARY DISMISSAL PURSUANT TO F.R.C.P. 41(a)(1)(A)(i)
______________________________________________________________________________

http://static.ow.ly/docs/File%20Stamped%20Dismissal%20of%20Jane%20Doe%20SDNY%20Complaint%2011-4-16%20filed_5vIx.pdf
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Chris Davidson on December 06, 2019, 02:48:06 AM
NOTICE OF VOLUNTARY DISMISSAL PURSUANT TO F.R.C.P. 41(a)(1)(A)(i)
______________________________________________________________________________

http://static.ow.ly/docs/File%20Stamped%20Dismissal%20of%20Jane%20Doe%20SDNY%20Complaint%2011-4-16%20filed_5vIx.pdf
I would recommend finding out why it was dismissed.
In the meantime, page 13-15 from the document I supplied(witness "in-depth" supporting statements) All the information that's necessary.
Sickos who prey on young girls.
The same guy who had his personal attorney(the one in prison) pay off his working girls illegally, got caught and was named as a co-conspirator.


Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Tim Nickerson on December 06, 2019, 03:20:01 AM
In the meantime, page 13-15 from the document I supplied(witness "in-depth" supporting statements) All the information that's necessary.

All that's necessary for what? The complaint was voluntarily dropped, making all of the claims contained within that document null and void.
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Thomas Graves on December 06, 2019, 08:49:58 PM
All that's necessary for what? The complaint was voluntarily dropped, making all of the claims contained within that document null and void.

Nickerson is right, Chris.

Although Trump was pals with pedophile Epstein, has bragged about molesting women he's just met, was banging Marla Maples while still married to pregnant Ivana, and marrird an alleged high-class hooker from Slovenia, he would never consider raping a woman or two.

Or three.

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Tim Nickerson on December 06, 2019, 09:46:00 PM
Nickerson is right, Chris.

Although Trump was pals with pedophile Epstein, has bragged about molesting women he's just met, was banging Marla Maples while still married to pregnant Ivana, and marrird an alleged high-class hooker from Slovenia, he would never consider raping a woman or two.

Or three.

-- MWT  ;)

An alleged high-class hooker from Slovenia? Really? Alleged by who?
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Tom Scully on December 07, 2019, 01:06:57 AM
Quote
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/06/politics/legal-scholars-letter-trump-impeachment/
More than 500 legal scholars sign letter saying Trump committed 'impeachable conduct'
More than 500 legal scholars signed on to a letter published Friday accusing President Donald Trump of having "engaged in impeachable conduct" in his ...
CNN
December 6, 2019 ...
.
Quote
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/more-than-500-law-professors-say-trump-committed-impeachable-conduct/2019/12/06/35259c16-183a-11ea-a659-7d69641c6ff7_story.html
More than 500 law professors say Trump committed ‘impeachable conduct’
More than 500 legal scholars have signed on to an open letter asserting that President Trump committed “impeachable conduct” and that lawmakers would be ...
The Washington Post
December 6, 2019...

Quote
Op-Ed: President Trump argues he is above the law. A thousand prosecutors say he’s wrong
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-berwick-parker-trump-mueller-obstruction-justice-20190530-story.html
May 30, 2019 - If anyone else in the U.S. had obstructed justice the way President Trump ... more than 1,000 former federal prosecutors had signed a statement ...

Quote
STATEMENT BY FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS - DOJ ...
https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statement-by-former-federal-prosecutors-8ab7691c2aa1
May 6, 2019
We served under both Republican and Democratic administrations at different levels of the federal system: as line attorneys, supervisors, special prosecutors, United States Attorneys, and senior officials at the Department of Justice. ... The President’s stated reason was that he ...
......The Mueller report describes several acts that satisfy all of the elements for an obstruction charge: conduct that obstructed or attempted to obstruct the truth-finding process, as to which the evidence of corrupt intent and connection to pending proceedings is overwhelming. These include:
......

Obstruction is a crime deserving prosecution to the fullest extent of the law because it defies the law through blocking thorough criminal investigation of the
underlying crime the obstruction is committed in reaction to the investigation of.


Trump appointed Attorney General William Barr rewarded President Trump's obstructing the Mueller investigation, encouraging Trump to further obstruct
since the result of obstructing Mueller's efforts to inform the American electorate about the integrity of the 2016 presidential campaign and Trump's legitmacy was thwarted by Trump himself.

Only a guilty or other criminally compromised candidate would interfere in an investigation confirming his legitimacy to hold that office. A candidate who
acted ethically and transparently would welcome an investigation confirming the fairness of his "win" and right to hold office.

Now, Trump's elected fellow party members are attempting to reward President Trump for obstruction of Congress, in the process, sawing off the very branch of the Constitutional "tree" they are standing on. In a marriage, such perverted, blind, subservient behavior is reserved for cuckolds.

The "joke" is on the White Nationalists who "coined" this term. Trump is permitted by them and by the rest of the Trump party, to "cuck" all of them!

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckservative
"Cuckservative" is a pejorative[1] formed as a portmanteau of "cuck", a shortened form of the word cuckold, and the political designation conservative.[2] It has become a label used by white nationalists and the alt-right in the United States.[3][4][5][6]

The word "cuckservative" reached a high level of mainstream political conversation around mid-July 2015, where it gained media attention just a few weeks before the start of the first Republican primary debate for the 2016 United States presidential election.[4][7]

The term, as well as the shortened form "cuck" for cuckold, originated on websites such as 4chan (specifically the /pol/ imageboard) and 8chan, the right-wing message board My Posting Career,[1][3] the blog The Right Stuff,[8] and other sites in the alt-right movement.[3][9][10].....
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Tim Nickerson on December 07, 2019, 03:49:12 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/more-than-500-law-professors-say-trump-committed-impeachable-conduct/2019/12/06/35259c16-183a-11ea-a659-7d69641c6ff7_story.html
More than 500 law professors say Trump committed ‘impeachable conduct’
More than 500 legal scholars have signed on to an open letter asserting that President Trump committed “impeachable conduct” and that lawmakers would be ...
The Washington Post
December 6, 2019...

Op-Ed: President Trump argues he is above the law. A thousand prosecutors say he’s wrong
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-berwick-parker-trump-mueller-obstruction-justice-20190530-story.html
May 30, 2019 - If anyone else in the U.S. had obstructed justice the way President Trump ... more than 1,000 former federal prosecutors had signed a statement ...

Quote
STATEMENT BY FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTORS - DOJ ...
https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statement-by-former-federal-prosecutors-8ab7691c2aa1
May 6, 2019
We served under both Republican and Democratic administrations at different levels of the federal system: as line attorneys, supervisors, special prosecutors, United States Attorneys, and senior officials at the Department of Justice. ... The President’s stated reason was that he ...
......The Mueller report describes several acts that satisfy all of the elements for an obstruction charge: conduct that obstructed or attempted to obstruct the truth-finding process, as to which the evidence of corrupt intent and connection to pending proceedings is overwhelming. These include:
......


It's like Deja vu all over again. And it's only been a little over a year. What a farce. It did not work in keeping Kavanaugh off of the bench of the highest court in the land. It will do nothing to sway Republican Senators.
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Tim Nickerson on December 07, 2019, 03:54:28 AM
Unfathomable’: More than 2,400 law professors sign letter opposing Kavanaugh’s confirmation

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2018/10/04/unprecedented-unfathomable-more-than-law-professors-sign-letter-after-kavanaugh-hearing/

 BS:
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Matt Grantham on December 08, 2019, 03:00:27 PM
 God I hope this whole impeachment thing is a deep state operation utilizing Trump Derangement Syndrome, otherwise the left, or at least the Democrats have lost their minds
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Thomas Graves on December 08, 2019, 06:33:07 PM
God I hope this whole impeachment thing is a deep state operation utilizing Trump Derangement Syndrome, otherwise the left, or at least the Democrats have lost their minds

You're ging with KGB-boy Vladimir Putin and his agent, Julian Assange, right?

--  MWT
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Tom Scully on December 08, 2019, 07:17:21 PM
God I hope this whole impeachment thing is a deep state operation utilizing Trump Derangement Syndrome, otherwise the left, or at least the Democrats have lost their minds

Do tell... I am hoping I am not misunderstanding you, because it sure seems you are blaming the cops for the bank robber robbing the bank.
In addition to reinforcing the Constitutional authority of Congress to investigate the Executive and to hold the President accountable to the Constitution, eleven months from the next election, there is the urgency to discourage, if not to prevent this president from using the powers of his office to benefit him personally by attempting to gain political advantage in the coming election, as conditioning military aid authorized by Congress to a foreign country under military attack by Russia on a requirement the leader of the country under Russian attack agree to announce investigation of the President's strongest political adversary, Joe Biden!

Quote
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/11/20/other-knife-gordon-sondland-stuck-trumps-back/
By Philip Bump  - November 20, 2019 at 12:12 p.m. EST

...In addition to directly alleging a quid pro quo that was well-known within the administration, Sondland’s testimony undercut Trump’s claims in another, quieter way. At several points in his testimony, he suggested it was only the announcement of investigations that was a priority for the White House.

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) asked Sondland at one point to clarify the outline of the quid pro quo.

“He had to get those two investigations if that official act was going to take place,” Schiff said.

“Correct,” Sondland replied. “He had to announce the investigations. He didn’t actually have to do them, as I understood it.”...

...“Well, they would have to announce that they were going to do it,” Sondland replied.

“Right, because they — because Giuliani and President Trump didn’t actually care if they did them, right?” Goldman asked.

“I never heard, Mr. Goldman, anyone say that the investigations had to start or had to be completed,” Sondland said. “The only thing I heard from Mr. Giuliani or otherwise was that they had to be announced in some form. And that form kept changing.”

“Announced publicly?” Goldman asked.

“Announced publicly,” Sondland replied.

“And you, of course, recognized that there would be political benefits to a public announcement as opposed to a private confirmation, right?” Goldman asked.

“Well, the way it was expressed to me was that the Ukrainians had a long history of committing to things privately and then never following through,” Sondland replied. “So President Trump presumably — again, communicated through Mr. Giuliani — wanted the Ukrainians on record publicly that they were going to do these investigations. That’s the reason that was given to me.”

“But you never heard anyone say that they really wanted them to do the investigations,” Goldman said, “just that they wanted them to announce them.”

“I didn’t hear either way,” Sondland replied.

Goldman later pointed to testimony from acting Ukraine ambassador William B. Taylor Jr. in which he recalled Sondland saying that Ukraine needed to be in a “public box.”

“It goes back to my earlier comment that — again, coming from the Giuliani source, because we didn’t discuss this specifically, President Trump — that they wanted whatever commitments Ukraine made to be made publicly so that they would be on the record and be held more accountable,” Sondland said. “Whatever those commitments were."

It’s an interesting evolution in Sondland’s responses. It’s clear he understands the difference between an investigation that’s announced and one that’s completed. It also seems clear that he understands how the investigations might be politically useful....

..Another possibility, of course, is that Sondland was under the impression that the investigations were in fact secondary to the announcement of the investigations. That’s a potentially significant development, strongly bolstering the idea that the intent of the investigations was purely political. The announcement itself would serve Trump in the way the late-October announcement of the reopening investigation into Hillary Clinton helped Trump in 2016. That reopening went nowhere, but the political damage had been done.

There were other, more significant components to Sondland’s testimony. But the significance of his suggestion that the call for investigation was simply a public relations move and nothing more shouldn’t be underestimated. If true, it severely undercuts Trump’s already shaky defense about what he wanted from Ukraine’s president....

This is by George Conway, legal scholar and spouse of the President's 2016 campaign manager and current prominent political advisor.:

https://twitter.com/JohnWDean/status/1202306453513494528
(http://jfkforum.com/images/TrumpConwayImpeachInvestigateImpeach.jpg)

Quote
https://www.vox.com/2019/12/6/20998714/rudy-giuliani-quid-pro-quo-tweets-ukraine-biden
But Giuliani’s tweet reveals the hollowness of that talking point. “Corruption” is just a stand-in word for “Biden.” He doesn’t even try to hide it.
December 6, 2019

.....But Giuliani’s tweet reveals the hollowness of that talking point. “Corruption” is just a stand-in word for “Biden.” He doesn’t even try to hide it.
https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1202704722857267200
(http://jfkforum.com/images/TrumpRudy120519CorruptionOnlyBiden.jpg)

Even though Giuliani’s tweet gives up the game, White House spokesperson Hogan Gidley appeared on Fox News on Friday, still claiming that Trump “didn’t press [Ukrainian President Volodymyr] Zelensky on anything other than getting to the bottom of corruption in his country. We know that.”

HOGAN GIDLEY TODAY: Trump "didn't press Zelensky on anything other than getting to the bottom of corruption in his country. We know that"

But if Giuliani’s tweet isn’t enough to convince you otherwise, consider that the word “corruption” doesn’t appear even once in the summaries of the Trump-Zelensky calls released by the White House.

Of course, the notion that arguably the most personally corrupt president in American history ever had good-faith concerns about corruption abroad was hard to believe from the get-go — some might say as hard to believe as Attorney General William Barr’s claim that he couldn’t find an available room in the Washington, DC, area for his $30,000 holiday party anywhere other than the Trump International Hotel just blocks from the White House.

Verifiable facts support the opposite. If every effort is not made to halt reinforcing Trump for breaking his solemn oath of office, the vow to "preserve and protect the Constitution of the United States, so help me God," Trump's obstruction of the Mueller investigation and of Congress's unambiguous constitutional authority to investigate and to hold the the Executive branch accountable will result in the Executive being unaccountable to his oath, to the law.

Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/us/politics/turley-impeachment.html
Trump Blocked Key Impeachment Witnesses. Should Congress Wait?
At the first House Judiciary Committee impeachment hearing, Republicans’ witness said lawmakers were rushing the process and should instead let court fights over access to witnesses play out.
By Charlie Savage - Dec. 4, 2019

.....When a president systematically blockades congressional subpoenas and instructs current and former aides not to provide documents and testimony, that is another basis to impeach, argued another witness, Michael J. Gerhardt, a University of North Carolina law professor and author of “The Federal Impeachment Process: A Constitutional and Historical Analysis.”

“In this situation, the full-scale obstruction of those subpoenas, I think, torpedoes separation of powers and, therefore, your only recourse is to, in a sense, protect your institutional prerogatives, and that would include impeachment,” Mr. Gerhardt testified.

Notably, Mr. Turley — who said he had not voted for Mr. Trump — did not assert the president did nothing wrong, as hard-core supporters of the president have done. He said that a now famous call in which Mr. Trump pressured Ukraine’s president to announce investigations that could benefit him politically “was anything but perfect,” and that Congress had a legitimate reason to scrutinize it.

But, he argued, it is premature to rush forward with impeachment while Congress has yet to obtain potentially knowable facts about what Mr. Trump said to his aides about withholding a White House meeting and $391 million in military aid that Ukraine desperately needed to shore up its defenses against Russian aggression....

...“There remain core witnesses and documents that have not been sought through the courts,” Mr. Turley wrote, adding that the House “is moving forward based on conjecture, assuming what the evidence would show if there existed the time or inclination to establish it.”

But Mr. Turley made only a passing reference in his written statement to the problem that has bedeviled impeachment investigators: The White House has directed top aides to Mr. Trump not to cooperate with the House, while asserting that they are immune from being subpoenaed to testify about their discussions with the president....
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Matt Grantham on December 09, 2019, 01:52:57 AM
 What military attack is that?
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Thomas Graves on December 09, 2019, 02:57:53 AM
What military attack is that?

Matthew,

Do you not believe that Putin sent Russian special forces (aka "Little Green Men") into Crimea in 2014 to steal it from Ukraine, and that Russian mercenaries and "regulars" have been fighting Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine with tanks, artillery and electronic warfare stuff, etc, since 2014?

Or do you think that's Fake News?

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Matt Grantham on December 09, 2019, 03:31:04 AM
 I know Russian troops were stationed in Sevastopol before February of 14 Even if we were to accept the little green men story, are we to believe a few soldiers cowered the Crimeans without a shot?

 Where is your evidence of Russian troops and tanks in the Easter Ukraine?

 Wgy would you think your say so would be proof of anything?
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Thomas Graves on December 09, 2019, 03:58:54 AM
I know Russian troops were stationed in Sevastopol before February of 14 Even if we were to accept the little green men story, are we to believe a few soldiers cowered the Crimeans without a shot?

 Where is your evidence of Russian troops and tanks in the Easter Ukraine?

 Wgy would you think your say so would be proof of anything?

You've been reading the wrong "news sources," dude.

Or do you limit yourself to YouTube videos?

--  MWT  ;)

PS  Here's a good one from Bellingcat.

You've heard of Bellingcat, haven't you?

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2016/07/04/russias-200th-motorized-infantry-brigade-donbass-tell-tale-tanks/

-- MWT  ;)


Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Matt Grantham on December 09, 2019, 04:58:08 AM
 Well lets start with Bellingcat and Atlantic Council

https://thegrayzone.com/2018/10/29/shamiwitness-how-bellingcat-and-neocons-collaborated-with-the-most-influential-isis-propagandist-on-twitter/

 Waiting for replies on Crimea
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Thomas Graves on December 09, 2019, 05:20:11 AM
Well lets start with Bellingcat and Atlantic Council

https://thegrayzone.com/2018/10/29/shamiwitness-how-bellingcat-and-neocons-collaborated-with-the-most-influential-isis-propagandist-on-twitter/

 Waiting for replies on Crimea

thegrayzone ?

Looks like "KGB" propaganda to me.

Crimea?

Why don't you just google "little green men" + crimea ?

By the way, do you still think 9/11 was an inside job?

Still think the DNC hack was a leak?  (Or have you come around to believing Ukraine did it in order to blame it on Russia?)

Do you think the evil, evil, evil CIA killed JFK?

Are there any tinfoil hat conspiracy theories you don't believe in?

Flat Earth?

Moon Landings?

The Illuminati?

THE DEEP STATE ?

LOL

--  MWT  ;)
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Matt Grantham on December 09, 2019, 05:28:56 AM
Ae you such a loser that you cannot deal with facts instead of your constant attempt at putting people in a box to avoid discussing actual facts
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Thomas Graves on December 09, 2019, 06:42:51 AM
Ae you such a loser that you cannot deal with facts instead of your constant attempt at putting people in a box to avoid discussing actual facts

Matthew,

What "facts"?

The "fact" that Russia didn't invade Crimea and the Donbas"?

The "fact" that 9/11 was an inside job?

The "fact" that the DNC hack was either done by Ukraine, or it was a leak?

The "fact" that the evil CIA killed JFK?

The "fact" that we live in an evil, evil, evil Deep State?

The "fact" that you know what you're talking about?

LOL

-- MWT  ;)
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Tom Scully on December 09, 2019, 09:56:44 AM
What military attack is that?

I know Russian troops were stationed in Sevastopol before February of 14 Even if we were to accept the little green men story, are we to believe a few soldiers cowered the Crimeans without a shot?

 Where is your evidence of Russian troops and tanks in the Easter Ukraine?

 Wgy would you think your say so would be proof of anything?

If you wall yourself off, assuming everything is fake news unless Trump assures he has not been victimized by it, you'll continue to give the impression you are too clever by half, at least to those who assume the POTUS cannot be a victim without seeming absurd and pathetic. A newly inaugurated POTUS is expected to assume administration of the government, hence the word, "administration," and not posture as if he is still a reality TV host somehow, "on the outside," a fake "renegade," if you will. Big Trump party donors would not donate six, seven, or eight figures to a "victim," not in control of things that matter to them, like dismantling regulators in every department and slashing tax levels of the wealthiest below the percentage levels paid by wage earners.
Those around Trump are not pleading or being found guilty of felonies by juries and then going to prison because they are martyrs, Matt. They are as criminal as the man who appointed and directed them!
Quote
Why Ukrainian forces gave up Crimea without a fight - and NATO is alert
Pavel Polityuk, Anton Zverev
10 MIN READ
https://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCAKBN1A90G0-OCATP
Jul 23, 2017 - Naval chief Denis Berezovsky did defect, along with several of his commanders, and was later made deputy chief of the Russian Black Sea ...

Rear Admiral Denis Berezovsky appointed deputy ... - Tass
https://tass.com/russia/725041
CRIMEA AND SEVASTOPOL24 MAR 2014, 07:02
... Minister Sergei Shoigu during a working trip to Crimea has appointed Rear Admiral Denis Berezovsky deputy commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Navy#Defections_to_Russia
.....
Defections to Russia
When Crimea was annexed by Russia,
a number of Ukrainian Navy servicemen left the service for Russia. Among those were members of the upper echelon of command of the Ukrainian Navy. The Ukrainian Navy compiled and released a list of the officers who left the Ukrainian Navy for Russia, calling their actions treasonous.[34]

Vice Admiral Sergei Yeliseyev, a first deputy commander.
Rear Admiral Dmitriy Shakuro, a first deputy commander and chief of staff for the Ukrainian Navy.
Rear Admiral Denis Berezovsky, commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian Navy for one day, now a Black Sea Fleet deputy commander and chief of the combat training directorate.
Colonel Sergei Tarkhov, a chief of staff assistant in organization and sustainment of international relations.
Michman Sergei Gorbachov, a sergeant major of the Ukrainian Navy.
Administrative command - 5 officers.
Operation command - 17 officers.
Intelligence command - 8 officers.
Finance - 6 officers.

Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/05/world/europe/zelensky-ukraine-russia.html
Zelensky’s Opponents Fear He Is Ready to Capitulate to Russia
The Ukrainian president’s political opponents worry that the Trump impeachment inquiry may have weakened Ukraine’s position before peace talks in Paris next week.

By Andrew E. Kramer
Dec. 5, 2019

KYIV, Ukraine — Washington may be obsessed with the impeachment inquiry over President Trump’s dealings with Ukraine, but it was far from the minds of a few thousand protesters who gathered on a recent frosty night in Kyiv to vent their anger at their own country’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, over his peace overtures to Russia.

If he struggled to resist demands by Mr. Trump for investigations affecting next year’s United States elections, some protesters said, imagine what will happen when he meets President Vladimir V. Putin on Monday for talks on ending the war in eastern Ukraine. As speakers derided Mr. Zelensky as soft on Russia, the crowd answered with cries of “No to capitulation!” and “Treason!”

Mr. Zelensky campaigned for the presidency on a two-plank platform of fighting corruption and ending a grinding war with Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine that has killed at least 13,000 people.

While the peace effort has received less notice, it is undoubtedly the more politically treacherous of the two undertakings. Everyone is against corruption, in theory at least, but there are sharp divides over how to deal with Russia, which is widely despised by Ukrainians outside the breakaway eastern territories......

...Domestic political opponents are concerned that Mr. Zelensky, having no clear American diplomatic backing, may be too willing to make concessions to Moscow in the talks. Any widespread perception that he has done so could weaken him politically, hampering his ability to follow through with his anticorruption efforts.....

...In the worst-case scenario, they say, Mr. Zelensky would give amnesty to rebel leaders and grant sweeping autonomy to the breakaway regions, while allowing Russian forces to linger in or just outside Ukraine even after any political settlement.

In the peace talks, scheduled for Monday in Paris, most analysts see Russia seeking at a minimum to trade de facto control over the two separatists zones in eastern Ukraine for influence in domestic Ukrainian politics, including a veto on membership in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.....

...But through the summer, Mr. Zelensky sought a White House visit to urge Mr. Trump to press Russia and side with Ukraine in the negotiations. It never materialized.

To the contrary, at a news conference in New York in September, Mr. Trump backed away from Mr. Zelensky and his troubles in the war, telling the Ukrainian leader, “I really hope you and President Putin get together and can solve your problem.”

By distancing himself from Mr. Zelensky in the negotiations, as stressed by many of the security professionals who testified in the recent impeachment hearings, Mr. Trump has raised doubts about how far he will go to support Ukraine and made it harder for the Ukrainian government to defend the concessions it is making to end the war.

Some analysts say that despite Mr. Zelensky’s weak hand going into the talks, worries of a pivot to Russia are overblown and mostly whipped up by domestic political opponents.

“Accommodation with Russia would be a very hard sell inside Ukraine,” Steven Pifer, a former United States ambassador to Ukraine, said in a telephone interview...

Trump obviously wants whatever Putin wants. DiEugenio does, too, along with most who have posted on DPF since the 2016 election. Other Putin apologists on the Ed Forum receive almost no pushback from other posters. Trump's demonstrated intent is for no other country to trust the U.S. about any pledge Trump or a prior administration has ever committed to.

Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/07/opinion/trade-trump-china.html
Is It Possible Trump Is on the Right Track With China?
Paul Krugman responds to reader questions about the lasting effects of Trump’s trade wars.

By Paul Krugman Opinion Columnist
Dec. 7, 2019

....Could electing a new administration reverse damage?

Any silver lining is a long way off, according to Krugman. “To really get back on track, we’d need a defeat — not just of Trump but also of Trumpism, which would take multiple elections,” he wrote in response to one reader....

....Krugman: None of the businesspeople I know think that. China is a bad actor in some ways, especially in not respecting intellectual property and arguably in de facto subsidizing some industries. But Trump isn’t taking on China over those issues, and hasn’t even made any clear demands.

He also hasn’t rallied other countries to join America in pressing China to change. Instead, he’s picking fights with everyone. So even if you think China should be confronted, Trump is doing it wrong....

....Krugman: We have numbers on this! If China were bearing the tariff, the price of imports to the United States from China would be falling a lot. They aren’t. All the evidence says that United States consumers are bearing the tariffs, and that Navarro is just making stuff up....

Don't wear your inclination to give Putin the benefit of the doubt on your sleeve, Matt, unless you're not posting with your actual name.

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances refers to three identical political agreements signed at the OSCE conference in Budapest, Hungary on 5 December 1994, providing security assurances by its signatories relating to the accession of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, and the United States of America. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents.[1]

The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan.

As a result, between 1994 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons. Before that, Ukraine had the world's third largest nuclear weapons stockpile,[2][3] of which Ukraine had physical if not operational control.[4][5] The use of the weapons was dependent on Russian-controlled electronic Permissive Action Links and the Russian command and control system.[4][5]

In 2009, the Russian Federation and the United States released a joint statement that the memorandum’s security assurances would still be respected after the expiration of the START Treaty.[6]

Following the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation in 2014, the US,[7][8] Canada,[9] the UK,[10] along with other countries,[11] stated that Russian involvement was a breach of its obligations to Ukraine under the Budapest Memorandum, a Memorandum transmitted to the United Nations under the signature of Sergei Lavrov, amongst others,[12] and in violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity. On 4 March 2014, the Russian president replied to a question on violation of Budapest Memorandum, describing current Ukrainian situation as a revolution, when "a new state arises, but with this state and in respect to this state, we have not signed any obligatory documents".[13] Russia stated it had never been under obligation to "force any part of Ukraine's civilian population to stay in Ukraine against its will." Russia suggested that the US was in violation of the Budapest Memorandum, describing the Euromaidan as a US-instigated coup.[14]....
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Matt Grantham on December 10, 2019, 01:02:45 AM
Matthew,

What "facts"?

The "fact" that Russia didn't invade Crimea and the Donbas"?

The "fact" that 9/11 was an inside job?

The "fact" that the DNC hack was either done by Ukraine, or it was a leak?

The "fact" that the evil CIA killed JFK?

The "fact" that we live in an evil, evil, evil Deep State?

The "fact" that you know what you're talking about?

LOL

-- MWT  ;)

 I guess you feel you have a hold on what facts are. Do you believe the logical fallacy of begging the question is a fact? Here is a clue in your efforts, facts and beliefs are different things
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Thomas Graves on December 10, 2019, 01:12:18 AM
I guess you feel you have finally feel you have a hold on what facts are. Do you believe the logical fallacy of begging the question is a fact? Here is a clue in your efforts Facts and beliefs are different things

English, please.
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Matt Grantham on December 10, 2019, 01:21:33 AM
English, please.

 Give me a clue on what you are not understanding please? Would it help if we talked in the standard language of premises and conclusions? I am here to help
Title: Re: The Impeachment and Removal of Donald J. Trump
Post by: Thomas Graves on December 10, 2019, 06:07:18 AM
Give me a clue on what you are not understanding please? Would it help if we talked in the standard language of premises and conclusions? I am here to help

Do you read your posts after you've posted them?

--  MWT  ;)